Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here.

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, and we are so excited about what that means for the future of this show.

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

This is the only place where you can find honest perspectives from the left and the right that simply does not exist anywhere else.

So if that is something that's important to you, please go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

So if that is something that's important to you, please go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and you'll access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, and all put together for you every morning in your inbox.

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints dot com.

We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints dot com.

Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. We are sadly not joined by Ryan grim or Segar and Nettie, although there will be plenty of Segar and Nettie and today's show because you got some questions at the White House briefing yesterday, as he talked about on the channel. But Crystal is in and I am so excited. Crystal, thanks for being here.

Good morning, and welcome to Counterpoints. We are sadly not joined by Ryan grim or Segar and Nettie, although there will be plenty of Segar and Nettie and today's show because you got some questions at the White House briefing yesterday, as he talked about on the channel. But Crystal is in and I am so excited. Crystal, thanks for being here.

It's always my pleasure.

It's always my pleasure.

Ryan home with some sick kiddos, but we are hoping, he said, if things are chill at home and like relatively you know, peaceful. He's going to join us later in the show for an update on Mackmood Khalil. And they're like a million things that we have in the show today. I was looking at the lineup Emily, Literally, any one of these blocks could have led the show. Normally, there's yeah, normally there's some stuff that's clearly like, oh, we're interested in it, but we recognize it's not all that important, and you try to put the most important things at the front of the show. Today, literally, any of these blocks I think could have gone first, because each one of them is extremely consequential.

Ryan home with some sick kiddos, but we are hoping, he said, if things are chill at home and like relatively you know, peaceful. He's going to join us later in the show for an update on Mackmood Khalil. And they're like a million things that we have in the show today. I was looking at the lineup Emily, Literally, any one of these blocks could have led the show. Normally, there's yeah, normally there's some stuff that's clearly like, oh, we're interested in it, but we recognize it's not all that important, and you try to put the most important things at the front of the show. Today, literally, any of these blocks I think could have gone first, because each one of them is extremely consequential.

It is a whole show of a blocks, and the news cycle just keeps changing. Crystal, we were talking about how yesterday we had to rework the show like several different times because yesterday's news cycle. I mean many such cases, right, There have been a lot of crazy news cycles, but yesterday was one of the crazier ones. So we're going to start by talking about the tariffs, which was a roller coaster yesterday. We have some new footage of Howard lutnek answering questions. We have some footage of Sager getting questions in a White House briefing, and some updates on where the tariffs stand right now. Jeff Stein is going to join us to talk even more about the tariff policy. Particularly, we're going to start talking about Wall Street and tariffs and all of that. But then Jeff is going to be in the show. We're excited to have him with us to go through how particularly the tariffs are being viewed around the world and how they're affecting or how the Trump administration is approaching them. Then Crystal, late yesterday we learned the Education Department was taking its first step towards shutting down by laying off fifty percent fifty percent of its staff. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about how the House of Representatives actually passed a spending bill to avert a government shutdown and is now in the hands of the Senate and leaves Democrats with a sort of interesting question on their hands as they head into the second half of this week. Ryan will hopefully join us for a conversation about Mahmoud Khalil Saga was able to ask the White House about that at the briefing yesterday. So we have footage and we have new updates from drop site and other sources, and then we will be talking about another massive story, another a block. Marco Rubio and National Security Advisor Mike Waltz walked out of a marathon meeting with their Ukrainian counterpoints counterparts. If there is a Ukrainian counterpoints I would love to see that, but counterparts with a ceasefire proposal that they sent over to Russia. Steve Witkoff is headed for a meeting with Vladimir Putin this week. So now that we have the run of show laid out, everyone can see. Man, what a time to be alive, Crystal. Let's start with the economy and this incredible snippet of a new interview that Howard Lutnik gave. If this is a zero watch.

It is a whole show of a blocks, and the news cycle just keeps changing. Crystal, we were talking about how yesterday we had to rework the show like several different times because yesterday's news cycle. I mean many such cases, right, There have been a lot of crazy news cycles, but yesterday was one of the crazier ones. So we're going to start by talking about the tariffs, which was a roller coaster yesterday. We have some new footage of Howard lutnek answering questions. We have some footage of Sager getting questions in a White House briefing, and some updates on where the tariffs stand right now. Jeff Stein is going to join us to talk even more about the tariff policy. Particularly, we're going to start talking about Wall Street and tariffs and all of that. But then Jeff is going to be in the show. We're excited to have him with us to go through how particularly the tariffs are being viewed around the world and how they're affecting or how the Trump administration is approaching them. Then Crystal, late yesterday we learned the Education Department was taking its first step towards shutting down by laying off fifty percent fifty percent of its staff. So we're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about how the House of Representatives actually passed a spending bill to avert a government shutdown and is now in the hands of the Senate and leaves Democrats with a sort of interesting question on their hands as they head into the second half of this week. Ryan will hopefully join us for a conversation about Mahmoud Khalil Saga was able to ask the White House about that at the briefing yesterday. So we have footage and we have new updates from drop site and other sources, and then we will be talking about another massive story, another a block. Marco Rubio and National Security Advisor Mike Waltz walked out of a marathon meeting with their Ukrainian counterpoints counterparts. If there is a Ukrainian counterpoints I would love to see that, but counterparts with a ceasefire proposal that they sent over to Russia. Steve Witkoff is headed for a meeting with Vladimir Putin this week. So now that we have the run of show laid out, everyone can see. Man, what a time to be alive, Crystal. Let's start with the economy and this incredible snippet of a new interview that Howard Lutnik gave. If this is a zero watch.

This, will these policies be worth it if they lead to a recession, even a short term recession.

This, will these policies be worth it if they lead to a recession, even a short term recession.

These policies are the most important thing America.

These policies are the most important thing America.

Has ever had, So it is worth it.

Has ever had, So it is worth it.

It is worth it a I don't think that the only reason that could possibly be a.

It is worth it a I don't think that the only reason that could possibly be a.

Recession is because of the Biden nonsense that we have to live with.

Recession is because of the Biden nonsense that we have to live with.

Okay, so JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs are now putting the likelihood of a recession around forty sixty, so forty percent likelihood of a recession, and you have massively wealthy people like Howard Lutnik obviously Commerce Secretary there saying a recession would be worth it. Crystal, this is just to pause on this clip before we get to Sager's question at the White House. It's the messaging, the optics. Just on the surface level, you have a bunch of billionaires walking around saying, don't worry about it, it's worth it.

Okay, so JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs are now putting the likelihood of a recession around forty sixty, so forty percent likelihood of a recession, and you have massively wealthy people like Howard Lutnik obviously Commerce Secretary there saying a recession would be worth it. Crystal, this is just to pause on this clip before we get to Sager's question at the White House. It's the messaging, the optics. Just on the surface level, you have a bunch of billionaires walking around saying, don't worry about it, it's worth it.

It's worth it, and it's worth it for what exactly? Like that's the other piece is I'm not sure that they've really explained what all of us, all of like regular Americans out there, are meant to be sacrificing in service of. Is the other piece of it, which is what we've talked about with the tarraf policy, where Trump has had like eighteen different explanations for why we're putting on tariffs, including making Canada the fifty first Aid, something that was not proposed on the campaign trail and no one voted for, but you know, suddenly as a major priority in US policy, and you're supposed to suffer in order to make this happen, like it's insane, and you know, there's a few things with regard to to Lutnik here that are important to point out as well. I sent you guys this article yesterday from Politico. Apparently Trump aids are preparing to throw Howard Lutnick under the bus for the you know, poor economic numbers and poor economic political standing of Trump. In fact, there's a new CNN poll out that has him at his lowest numbers ever in terms of how people feel.

It's worth it, and it's worth it for what exactly? Like that's the other piece is I'm not sure that they've really explained what all of us, all of like regular Americans out there, are meant to be sacrificing in service of. Is the other piece of it, which is what we've talked about with the tarraf policy, where Trump has had like eighteen different explanations for why we're putting on tariffs, including making Canada the fifty first Aid, something that was not proposed on the campaign trail and no one voted for, but you know, suddenly as a major priority in US policy, and you're supposed to suffer in order to make this happen, like it's insane, and you know, there's a few things with regard to to Lutnik here that are important to point out as well. I sent you guys this article yesterday from Politico. Apparently Trump aids are preparing to throw Howard Lutnick under the bus for the you know, poor economic numbers and poor economic political standing of Trump. In fact, there's a new CNN poll out that has him at his lowest numbers ever in terms of how people feel.

He's handling the economy.

He's handling the economy.

I mean, obviously this has been a traditional area of strength for Trump. It is arguably the core reason why people decided to re elect him as president of the United States, and now he is profoundly underwater there. His approval rating has slipped, you know, decidedly negative at least in terms of the CNN poll. Significant movement there for Trump elon even more profoundly unpopular with the America and public. And so people are positioning or preparing to throw Lutnik under the bus and say, how this guy is doing crazy stuff. He's saying crazy things, and you know clip like this where he's like, yeah, recession, I think that's probably worth it. That certainly adds to their arsenal of what they'll use. But you know, it's never Trump's fault. It's always got to be someone else's fault if things are going sideways.

I mean, obviously this has been a traditional area of strength for Trump. It is arguably the core reason why people decided to re elect him as president of the United States, and now he is profoundly underwater there. His approval rating has slipped, you know, decidedly negative at least in terms of the CNN poll. Significant movement there for Trump elon even more profoundly unpopular with the America and public. And so people are positioning or preparing to throw Lutnik under the bus and say, how this guy is doing crazy stuff. He's saying crazy things, and you know clip like this where he's like, yeah, recession, I think that's probably worth it. That certainly adds to their arsenal of what they'll use. But you know, it's never Trump's fault. It's always got to be someone else's fault if things are going sideways.

That's always an interesting line for the White House to walk, taking credit for the effects of the tariffs when they see them as positive bringing jobs back to Indiana, for example with the Hana Cimic situation, or then you know, shouldering the making Howard Lutink shoulder the blame when things go south. Let's listen to this question that Sagar got in. I'm sorry Sagar got in at yesterday's briefing. Here he is talking to Caroline Lovett.

That's always an interesting line for the White House to walk, taking credit for the effects of the tariffs when they see them as positive bringing jobs back to Indiana, for example with the Hana Cimic situation, or then you know, shouldering the making Howard Lutink shoulder the blame when things go south. Let's listen to this question that Sagar got in. I'm sorry Sagar got in at yesterday's briefing. Here he is talking to Caroline Lovett.

Today we have Sagar Annetti, who is the host of Breaking Points, a popular political YouTube news and podcast show.

Today we have Sagar Annetti, who is the host of Breaking Points, a popular political YouTube news and podcast show.

Really appreciate you having me, Caroline. A couple of questions for you, if I may, versus first on this stock market. Currently, it's the twenty fifth anniversary today of the dot com bubble crash. There's a lot of concern for a lot of Americans right now about the state of the economy. President Trump has refused to rule out of recession. Secretary Lutnik, however, has told us there will not be one. So can the White House just tell and sure Americans today that there's not going to be a recession.

Really appreciate you having me, Caroline. A couple of questions for you, if I may, versus first on this stock market. Currently, it's the twenty fifth anniversary today of the dot com bubble crash. There's a lot of concern for a lot of Americans right now about the state of the economy. President Trump has refused to rule out of recession. Secretary Lutnik, however, has told us there will not be one. So can the White House just tell and sure Americans today that there's not going to be a recession.

Well, there's a lot to unpack there.

Well, there's a lot to unpack there.

So let me start by saying that, first of all, when it comes to the stock market, the numbers that we see today, the numbers we saw yesterday, the numbers we saw we will see tomorrow, are a snapshot.

So let me start by saying that, first of all, when it comes to the stock market, the numbers that we see today, the numbers we saw yesterday, the numbers we saw we will see tomorrow, are a snapshot.

Of a moment of time.

Of a moment of time.

And as President Trump has said, and I'm here to echo the remarks of this president of this White House, we are in a period of economic transition. We are in a period of transition from the mess that was created under Joe Biden in the previous administration.

And as President Trump has said, and I'm here to echo the remarks of this president of this White House, we are in a period of economic transition. We are in a period of transition from the mess that was created under Joe Biden in the previous administration.

So yeah, Chris, Well, that's really the new messaging is this is a period of quote economic transition. And again, it's one thing to have Trump making that case. It's another thing to have Howard Lutnik and non Trump. Trump is such a singular figure, but to have other billionaires running around making that case, it's clearly the best that they've landed on. Though.

So yeah, Chris, Well, that's really the new messaging is this is a period of quote economic transition. And again, it's one thing to have Trump making that case. It's another thing to have Howard Lutnik and non Trump. Trump is such a singular figure, but to have other billionaires running around making that case, it's clearly the best that they've landed on. Though.

Yeah, and I'm curious from your perspective, Emily, I mean, I think people were willing to give Trump a bit of a grace period. You know, he came in hot, did a whole lot of stuff. People were like, all right, let's see where all of this goes. You know, we're now fifty days into the administration, and I don't think that it is going to I don't think people are going to buy that this is all Biden's fault, because because Trump has made so many moves, he has really taken ownership of everything that happens in the country, including what happens in the country economically. So I know they want to say, like, oh, this is all Biden's fault and so we've got to clean up his mess, et cetera, et cetera. I'm sure his base will buy that, but I don't think that that rationale is going to land very effectively much beyond his sort of like hardcore supporters, because, like I said, because he has taken so much action. You know, on the one hand, people sort of liked that sense of like, oh, things are happening. But now that things have turned and you're looking at recession and you're looking at days on days of stock market crashing and consumer confidence is down, we're actually going to get inflation reading today that you know a lot of people are anticipating. We'll see what happens there as well, but now that things are turning south, I think he is going to shoulder the blame because he's in charge and he really has, you know, sort of taken hold of this thing in a way that's pretty undeniable.

Yeah, and I'm curious from your perspective, Emily, I mean, I think people were willing to give Trump a bit of a grace period. You know, he came in hot, did a whole lot of stuff. People were like, all right, let's see where all of this goes. You know, we're now fifty days into the administration, and I don't think that it is going to I don't think people are going to buy that this is all Biden's fault, because because Trump has made so many moves, he has really taken ownership of everything that happens in the country, including what happens in the country economically. So I know they want to say, like, oh, this is all Biden's fault and so we've got to clean up his mess, et cetera, et cetera. I'm sure his base will buy that, but I don't think that that rationale is going to land very effectively much beyond his sort of like hardcore supporters, because, like I said, because he has taken so much action. You know, on the one hand, people sort of liked that sense of like, oh, things are happening. But now that things have turned and you're looking at recession and you're looking at days on days of stock market crashing and consumer confidence is down, we're actually going to get inflation reading today that you know a lot of people are anticipating. We'll see what happens there as well, but now that things are turning south, I think he is going to shoulder the blame because he's in charge and he really has, you know, sort of taken hold of this thing in a way that's pretty undeniable.

It's interesting because, yeah, there's a there's such a The style is part of the substance here. Obviously for Trump, he's trying to keep things completely unpredictable. We talked about this actually after his joint address last week, Like part of the plan here is so that nobody, even close analysts of this who watch, have any idea what you're doing, because that takes it to China and Canada and Mexico and they have no idea what you're doing. And that's really the only way Trump thinks, you know, the fifty first state thing for example, like he's really needling them. But that's also ends up being part of the substance when it comes to the market. So there was an interesting story in Reuter's yesterday going around and actually talking to folks in Wisconsin and manufacturing Wisconsin who would be affected by the tariffs. And we've seen this with farmers as well in Midwest and all those different products. In Trump's first term that were affected by tariffs and then continue to be affected by the Biden tariffs. You often hear and it seems that you're still hearing some patients with Trump's policies because there was an expectation that they would be radical, that they would be hard to predict, that they would be significant, and so people sort of prepared in advance. That's what Reuters was talking to some of these manufacturing and agriculture people about. They expected to not know what to expect, and so they had already started looking into their supply chain and all of that. But the question is, you know, when does that truly wear off? And I Crystal WoT Donald Trump, he's tethered himself so closely to the market during his campaign and looking back on his first presidency that it may ultimately be one of the things that screws him in terms of the public perception. He's really going to have to find more cases like the Honda Civic. He's really going to have to find just all of these examples of jobs like flooding back to the United States to make the case that we're in a quote transition period in a way that's successful, that successfully persuades voters who are looking at their portfolios or in their communities and going, oh my gosh.

It's interesting because, yeah, there's a there's such a The style is part of the substance here. Obviously for Trump, he's trying to keep things completely unpredictable. We talked about this actually after his joint address last week, Like part of the plan here is so that nobody, even close analysts of this who watch, have any idea what you're doing, because that takes it to China and Canada and Mexico and they have no idea what you're doing. And that's really the only way Trump thinks, you know, the fifty first state thing for example, like he's really needling them. But that's also ends up being part of the substance when it comes to the market. So there was an interesting story in Reuter's yesterday going around and actually talking to folks in Wisconsin and manufacturing Wisconsin who would be affected by the tariffs. And we've seen this with farmers as well in Midwest and all those different products. In Trump's first term that were affected by tariffs and then continue to be affected by the Biden tariffs. You often hear and it seems that you're still hearing some patients with Trump's policies because there was an expectation that they would be radical, that they would be hard to predict, that they would be significant, and so people sort of prepared in advance. That's what Reuters was talking to some of these manufacturing and agriculture people about. They expected to not know what to expect, and so they had already started looking into their supply chain and all of that. But the question is, you know, when does that truly wear off? And I Crystal WoT Donald Trump, he's tethered himself so closely to the market during his campaign and looking back on his first presidency that it may ultimately be one of the things that screws him in terms of the public perception. He's really going to have to find more cases like the Honda Civic. He's really going to have to find just all of these examples of jobs like flooding back to the United States to make the case that we're in a quote transition period in a way that's successful, that successfully persuades voters who are looking at their portfolios or in their communities and going, oh my gosh.

Yeah, Well, he's tied himself historically over the course of his career and certainly over the course of his first presidency to the markets. He's also, in this presidency tied himself to Elon, who is increasingly profoundly unpopular and doesn't have some of the I mean, Trump has like magic powers when it comes to his political standing. We all know he can do things and say things, get away with things that literally no one else in history has ever done. Elon doesn't have quite those same powers. Now, Elon has his own powers. Obviously, he's got his own base and following and culture personality, and in a certain way he is a similar sort of branding genius in the same way that you know that Trump is just with like a different kind of a flavor. But Elon doesn't have that same political teflon that Trump does.

Yeah, Well, he's tied himself historically over the course of his career and certainly over the course of his first presidency to the markets. He's also, in this presidency tied himself to Elon, who is increasingly profoundly unpopular and doesn't have some of the I mean, Trump has like magic powers when it comes to his political standing. We all know he can do things and say things, get away with things that literally no one else in history has ever done. Elon doesn't have quite those same powers. Now, Elon has his own powers. Obviously, he's got his own base and following and culture personality, and in a certain way he is a similar sort of branding genius in the same way that you know that Trump is just with like a different kind of a flavor. But Elon doesn't have that same political teflon that Trump does.

Now.

Now.

I think early on the thought was that Elon could serve as a kind of a heat shield. So as he's making all of these dramatic cuts and imposing this radical austerity on the federal government, including in things that are really popular, like, for example, public education is really popular. Are we talking about that? Social security really popular? Airplanes safely landing really popular. You know, they thought, I think that Elon could sort of shoulder take the blame and you know, serve as as as his heat shield as this sort of protected barrier. But the flip side of that is, because Elon is taking on so much water without having that teflon coating that Trump seems to that it actually could have an increasingly negative impact directly on Trump and weigh him down in a way that he hasn't been weighed down in the past. I want to skip ahead and then we'll come back to the CNBC said if we could put eight three up on the screen because I thought this was interesting.

I think early on the thought was that Elon could serve as a kind of a heat shield. So as he's making all of these dramatic cuts and imposing this radical austerity on the federal government, including in things that are really popular, like, for example, public education is really popular. Are we talking about that? Social security really popular? Airplanes safely landing really popular. You know, they thought, I think that Elon could sort of shoulder take the blame and you know, serve as as as his heat shield as this sort of protected barrier. But the flip side of that is, because Elon is taking on so much water without having that teflon coating that Trump seems to that it actually could have an increasingly negative impact directly on Trump and weigh him down in a way that he hasn't been weighed down in the past. I want to skip ahead and then we'll come back to the CNBC said if we could put eight three up on the screen because I thought this was interesting.

This is from Jail Partners.

This is from Jail Partners.

They do these word clouds, which are always fun asking, and they ask people what is Trump's biggest grew up so far, and tariffs jumps right off the page, you know, even at their most popular. And by the way, Tariff's spelled incorrectly two different ways also ranks up there pretty closely. Keep this up on the screen though for a second, just so people can take a look at and really digest this. You know, tariffs, even at Trump's when Trump was doing his best job pitching them the campaign and saying this is what's going to bring jobs back, and people are thinking about, you know, tarifs on China in particular, which is the most.

They do these word clouds, which are always fun asking, and they ask people what is Trump's biggest grew up so far, and tariffs jumps right off the page, you know, even at their most popular. And by the way, Tariff's spelled incorrectly two different ways also ranks up there pretty closely. Keep this up on the screen though for a second, just so people can take a look at and really digest this. You know, tariffs, even at Trump's when Trump was doing his best job pitching them the campaign and saying this is what's going to bring jobs back, and people are thinking about, you know, tarifs on China in particular, which is the most.

Positive territory for terriffs.

Positive territory for terriffs.

People are less favorable towards tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Even at that point, they were kind of a fifty to fifty proposition. Now when you've had this, they're on, they're off. It's Canada, it's fentanyl, it's jobs. No, it's we're going to make them the fifty first state. It's everything. No, it's half of the goods. No, we're taking them off again. At this point, I think it is one of the biggest liabilities and he can't certainly can't blame Elon for that one.

People are less favorable towards tariffs on Canada and Mexico. Even at that point, they were kind of a fifty to fifty proposition. Now when you've had this, they're on, they're off. It's Canada, it's fentanyl, it's jobs. No, it's we're going to make them the fifty first state. It's everything. No, it's half of the goods. No, we're taking them off again. At this point, I think it is one of the biggest liabilities and he can't certainly can't blame Elon for that one.

But if you look at.

But if you look at.

The next level of what people say are like his biggest grew ups, You've got a bunch of things related to Elon. You've got Musk, Elon firing DOGE, federal workers. So if you kind of put all those together, you can see those are the two dueling pieces that people are most upset about with regard to Trump and the way that he has approached the government.

The next level of what people say are like his biggest grew ups, You've got a bunch of things related to Elon. You've got Musk, Elon firing DOGE, federal workers. So if you kind of put all those together, you can see those are the two dueling pieces that people are most upset about with regard to Trump and the way that he has approached the government.

So far, super super interesting. I would have been the person who spelled tariff's wrong on the word cloud.

So far, super super interesting. I would have been the person who spelled tariff's wrong on the word cloud.

Let's jump back to Jesson jun Let's jump back to the CNBC just thought that of Crystal Tease, because this is how the tariff whirlwind, where basically Trump is and different advisors who are talking to the media are saying different things.

Let's jump back to Jesson jun Let's jump back to the CNBC just thought that of Crystal Tease, because this is how the tariff whirlwind, where basically Trump is and different advisors who are talking to the media are saying different things.

I mean, over the course of one day yesterday, there were different lines about how the tariffs were being implemented, what level of targeting was happening, and then what level targeting wasn't happening with which country. So here's how the NBC reacted. Let's roll a two.

I mean, over the course of one day yesterday, there were different lines about how the tariffs were being implemented, what level of targeting was happening, and then what level targeting wasn't happening with which country. So here's how the NBC reacted. Let's roll a two.

I'm going to say this at risk of my job, Kelly, but what President Trump is doing is insane. It is absolutely insane. It is about the eighth reason we've had for the tariffs, and now he's saying he's putting fifty percent tariffs on Canada unless they agree to become the fifty first state. That is insane. There is just no other way of describing it. And the trouble, Kelly, is that it shows there are no bounds around President Trump. This is very different from the first and mintministration, where there were people around him who seem to I don't know what the word is, but smooth over some of the edges now. And the other thing that's not talked about, Kelly, is what's going on within the administration in terms of how they're treating the constitution and laws. I think all of that is bad for the attraction of capital. And the gentleman from Bridgwarter is one hundred percent right. We need massive amounts of capital if we want to have fund our deficits, pay for the things we want to pay for, sell our bonds, and have high stock prices. And it seems as if this administration is doing everything it can to chase foreign capital away.

I'm going to say this at risk of my job, Kelly, but what President Trump is doing is insane. It is absolutely insane. It is about the eighth reason we've had for the tariffs, and now he's saying he's putting fifty percent tariffs on Canada unless they agree to become the fifty first state. That is insane. There is just no other way of describing it. And the trouble, Kelly, is that it shows there are no bounds around President Trump. This is very different from the first and mintministration, where there were people around him who seem to I don't know what the word is, but smooth over some of the edges now. And the other thing that's not talked about, Kelly, is what's going on within the administration in terms of how they're treating the constitution and laws. I think all of that is bad for the attraction of capital. And the gentleman from Bridgwarter is one hundred percent right. We need massive amounts of capital if we want to have fund our deficits, pay for the things we want to pay for, sell our bonds, and have high stock prices. And it seems as if this administration is doing everything it can to chase foreign capital away.

Okay, I like how he says. The gentleman from Bridgewater is absolutely correct.

Okay, I like how he says. The gentleman from Bridgewater is absolutely correct.

Like they're in Congress, I think, to you, it's funny to me how these guys think, because he's like, you know, is wild violations of the Constitution. What really matters here is this is bad for capital. Like everything just runs through good for profit motive, bad for profit motive. And he's come to the conclusion that, like you know, completely tearing up the constitution might be bad for capital attraction, so that's his issue with it. The other part I found kind of funny is that he said at the risk of losing his job, Like why would this cause you to risk your job? But anyway, the main point here being first of all, just you know how aggressive he is there and how much he thinks this policy is totally insane, which obviously I agree with and I think many people at this point agree with. But I think it also reminds us that this is something we can talk more to Jeff Stein about that these guys really didn't take Trump seriously on the campaign trail when he was repeatedly like, no, I'm really into tariffs. I'm going to put on a lot of tariffs. They are going to be across the board tariffs. Tariffs is the most beautiful word in the English language. And they were like, yeah, that part I don't think he's really serious about. We think he just means it when he talks about giving us tax cuts and deregulating everything, and that part we're excited about. So that's what we're going to focus on. So I think now you have a realization setting in which is partly reflected in the way that the you know, the market has been crashing. I do think I looked in the futures were up this morning. But the way that the market has responded this far, which has been terrible for the first fifty days here of the Trump administration, I do think it is a sort of setting in of reality for these guys of like, oh shit, this dude was actually serious about the stuff that he was saying.

Like they're in Congress, I think, to you, it's funny to me how these guys think, because he's like, you know, is wild violations of the Constitution. What really matters here is this is bad for capital. Like everything just runs through good for profit motive, bad for profit motive. And he's come to the conclusion that, like you know, completely tearing up the constitution might be bad for capital attraction, so that's his issue with it. The other part I found kind of funny is that he said at the risk of losing his job, Like why would this cause you to risk your job? But anyway, the main point here being first of all, just you know how aggressive he is there and how much he thinks this policy is totally insane, which obviously I agree with and I think many people at this point agree with. But I think it also reminds us that this is something we can talk more to Jeff Stein about that these guys really didn't take Trump seriously on the campaign trail when he was repeatedly like, no, I'm really into tariffs. I'm going to put on a lot of tariffs. They are going to be across the board tariffs. Tariffs is the most beautiful word in the English language. And they were like, yeah, that part I don't think he's really serious about. We think he just means it when he talks about giving us tax cuts and deregulating everything, and that part we're excited about. So that's what we're going to focus on. So I think now you have a realization setting in which is partly reflected in the way that the you know, the market has been crashing. I do think I looked in the futures were up this morning. But the way that the market has responded this far, which has been terrible for the first fifty days here of the Trump administration, I do think it is a sort of setting in of reality for these guys of like, oh shit, this dude was actually serious about the stuff that he was saying.

Yeah, I wanted actually On that note, take out this quote from a CNN article IM reading right now. This is from Ross Mayfield, who's an investment strategist at Baird He says, quote, there's a tolerance for pain that maybe some investors hadn't priced in related to the Trump administration's tolerance for pain is what he's referring to there, Because you're seeing Donald Trump say, for example, markets are going to go up and they're going to go down, but you know what, we have to rebuild our country. And then obviously Howard Lutnik, as we mentioned earlier in Caroline Levitt As Soccer, got her on the record about all of that. So CNN continues to say, we haven't gotten into some of these hard numbers yet, but the S and P five hundred dipped about It closed about nine point three percent, down from that February record high. Yesterday, all three major indexes dropped after Trump doubled down earlier in the day yesterday, but by the afternoon CNN rights markets had paired some lessons as officials from both the US and Canada said they would meet this week to de escalate tensions and renegotiate trade policy. Crystal. It's quite interesting though, that's giving anybody some hope because it's now like Trump negotiating over the fifty first state right with Canadian negotiators. So I actually don't know how much can come out of those meetings at this point. Canada, I was I'd forgotten this, but Canada has one hundred percent tariff on Chinese EV's like they're not at all many people are aware of this. They're not at all averse to their own tariff agenda. So maybe that's a bargaining trip for the Trump administration going forward, but I don't know what right.

Yeah, I wanted actually On that note, take out this quote from a CNN article IM reading right now. This is from Ross Mayfield, who's an investment strategist at Baird He says, quote, there's a tolerance for pain that maybe some investors hadn't priced in related to the Trump administration's tolerance for pain is what he's referring to there, Because you're seeing Donald Trump say, for example, markets are going to go up and they're going to go down, but you know what, we have to rebuild our country. And then obviously Howard Lutnik, as we mentioned earlier in Caroline Levitt As Soccer, got her on the record about all of that. So CNN continues to say, we haven't gotten into some of these hard numbers yet, but the S and P five hundred dipped about It closed about nine point three percent, down from that February record high. Yesterday, all three major indexes dropped after Trump doubled down earlier in the day yesterday, but by the afternoon CNN rights markets had paired some lessons as officials from both the US and Canada said they would meet this week to de escalate tensions and renegotiate trade policy. Crystal. It's quite interesting though, that's giving anybody some hope because it's now like Trump negotiating over the fifty first state right with Canadian negotiators. So I actually don't know how much can come out of those meetings at this point. Canada, I was I'd forgotten this, but Canada has one hundred percent tariff on Chinese EV's like they're not at all many people are aware of this. They're not at all averse to their own tariff agenda. So maybe that's a bargaining trip for the Trump administration going forward, but I don't know what right.

I think they'd be pretty happy about Canada having those tariffs on Chinese ev that favorable.

I think they'd be pretty happy about Canada having those tariffs on Chinese ev that favorable.

Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, but just that Canada uses tariffs as its own type of policy and I think you'll see some of that probably as they sit down at the table and talk. There's some of these things, but I don't know. I mean, it's genuinely hard to know. We were talking about this earlier. What Trump wants from Canada. Canada doesn't know. Trump's advisors don't seem to know what he wants from Canada at this point. My best guess is that he wants to he wants companies to do business in Canada to not know what his end goal is, so that they end up betting on the United States rather than betting on Canada. I think that's the read that's most likely, but it's really hard to know.

Yeah, yes, yes, absolutely, but just that Canada uses tariffs as its own type of policy and I think you'll see some of that probably as they sit down at the table and talk. There's some of these things, but I don't know. I mean, it's genuinely hard to know. We were talking about this earlier. What Trump wants from Canada. Canada doesn't know. Trump's advisors don't seem to know what he wants from Canada at this point. My best guess is that he wants to he wants companies to do business in Canada to not know what his end goal is, so that they end up betting on the United States rather than betting on Canada. I think that's the read that's most likely, but it's really hard to know.

Yeah, I mean, this is what I want to talk to Jeff Stein about and see what his best read of the situation are, because I've seen like eighteen different theories floated, including that they just like the market chaos, because if you're an insider and you can predict where when to buy the dip and when he's going to make a new announcement about tariffs a spikes market, you could be in a pretty profitable position. So yeah, I want to talk to Jeff about what he thinks is actually going on. Here, not that I think that. I mean, if anyone could figure it out, it would be Jeff. But I'm not sure that anyone, including maybe Trump, really knows what he's up to you here.

Yeah, I mean, this is what I want to talk to Jeff Stein about and see what his best read of the situation are, because I've seen like eighteen different theories floated, including that they just like the market chaos, because if you're an insider and you can predict where when to buy the dip and when he's going to make a new announcement about tariffs a spikes market, you could be in a pretty profitable position. So yeah, I want to talk to Jeff about what he thinks is actually going on. Here, not that I think that. I mean, if anyone could figure it out, it would be Jeff. But I'm not sure that anyone, including maybe Trump, really knows what he's up to you here.

Yeah, So let's actually move on to this Tesla commercial that happened on the White House at the White House yesterday, because we have the video. This is going to be a four. To the control room. Trump was doing a It was talking to reporters actually next to Elon Musk, next to x little ex, Elon Musk's son, and they had all kinds of Teslas outside of the White House, parked on the driveway, and Trump made a little bit of an announcement so we could go ahead and roll a four.

Yeah, So let's actually move on to this Tesla commercial that happened on the White House at the White House yesterday, because we have the video. This is going to be a four. To the control room. Trump was doing a It was talking to reporters actually next to Elon Musk, next to x little ex, Elon Musk's son, and they had all kinds of Teslas outside of the White House, parked on the driveway, and Trump made a little bit of an announcement so we could go ahead and roll a four.

I bought for a very special young woman, do you know. I'm sure you've never heard of Herkai And she's a great golfer and she puts the clubs in the back and I guess it's a very safe deal.

I bought for a very special young woman, do you know. I'm sure you've never heard of Herkai And she's a great golfer and she puts the clubs in the back and I guess it's a very safe deal.

She loves it.

She loves it.

And I actually bought one about a year ago, and she loves it. And it's very safe. It's very strong, heavy, it's all steel stainless, ye know, but the cars themselves, So what is this one? You know that's a that's a lot of Why so I have a lot of information that's put it into price. Yeah, I want to make a good deal here. You know, I do notice this they have won, which is thirty five thousand dollars, which is pretty low.

And I actually bought one about a year ago, and she loves it. And it's very safe. It's very strong, heavy, it's all steel stainless, ye know, but the cars themselves, So what is this one? You know that's a that's a lot of Why so I have a lot of information that's put it into price. Yeah, I want to make a good deal here. You know, I do notice this they have won, which is thirty five thousand dollars, which is pretty low.

What is that you.

What is that you.

Find a Tesla will boost Tesla sales and boost Look, look is that I care about one thing.

Find a Tesla will boost Tesla sales and boost Look, look is that I care about one thing.

When somebody is a great patriot, they shouldn't be hurt. He's a great patriot. He didn't know me from Adam until we met a little bit when I was in my first term, but he came out he endorsed me very strongly.

When somebody is a great patriot, they shouldn't be hurt. He's a great patriot. He didn't know me from Adam until we met a little bit when I was in my first term, but he came out he endorsed me very strongly.

So when somebody is a great patriot, they shouldn't get hurt. Is like what I'm going to say to a cop if they complain that I'm violating like open container laws. If somebody is a patriot, if somebody is the patriot, they should not be hurt. Officer Chris So, this was somewhat extraordinary. I think you've seen presidents I'm thinking of Obama in particular with social media highlight great American Companies perceived great American companies Before bringing the Teslas onto the White House line and talking about how much of a genius Elon Musk was that was an and interesting move that just seems unnecessary. I don't actually even understand what the point of that conversation was.

So when somebody is a great patriot, they shouldn't get hurt. Is like what I'm going to say to a cop if they complain that I'm violating like open container laws. If somebody is a patriot, if somebody is the patriot, they should not be hurt. Officer Chris So, this was somewhat extraordinary. I think you've seen presidents I'm thinking of Obama in particular with social media highlight great American Companies perceived great American companies Before bringing the Teslas onto the White House line and talking about how much of a genius Elon Musk was that was an and interesting move that just seems unnecessary. I don't actually even understand what the point of that conversation was.

Well, I mean, the point is that Tesla's stock is particularly in the toilet they're down fifty percent from they're high in December. Sales are plummeting around the world. In Europe they're down like fifty percent.

Well, I mean, the point is that Tesla's stock is particularly in the toilet they're down fifty percent from they're high in December. Sales are plummeting around the world. In Europe they're down like fifty percent.

You know.

You know.

In addition to Elon just being a completely toxic character, especially for your average ev buyer, they also have a stale product line. They also have increased competition for China, so the company is truly struggling.

In addition to Elon just being a completely toxic character, especially for your average ev buyer, they also have a stale product line. They also have increased competition for China, so the company is truly struggling.

And then you've.

And then you've.

Got you know, Elon who not only put quorder of a billion dollars into Trump's can pain, but just yesterday after this whole you know, sales pitch on the White House lawn, turning it into like a car lot. After that, we learn, oh, and Elon just happened to have right now at this moment, offered to put another one hundred million dollars into Trumpelne packs. So you know, when you ask what's different between this and let's say, you know, Joe Biden went to the Ford factory and drove one of their ev lightning f one fifties.

Got you know, Elon who not only put quorder of a billion dollars into Trump's can pain, but just yesterday after this whole you know, sales pitch on the White House lawn, turning it into like a car lot. After that, we learn, oh, and Elon just happened to have right now at this moment, offered to put another one hundred million dollars into Trumpelne packs. So you know, when you ask what's different between this and let's say, you know, Joe Biden went to the Ford factory and drove one of their ev lightning f one fifties.

What's different?

What's different?

Show me the Ford CEO who gave him a quarter of a billion dollars and is now putting another one hundred million into his campaign, coffers, That's what's really different. Not to mention, of course Elon himself having this insanely powerful position in government where he really is deciding who stays, who goes, what happens, what's a priority, and funneling contracts into his own companies while he's at it, defenestrating the regulatory environment so that none of them can investigate his many, you know, alleged abuses of our regulatory system, including we just had yet another SpaceX rocket that blew up. So that's what makes this just so insanely nakedly corrupt, is you literally have the President filming an ad on the White House lawn for his largest by far campaign contributor.

Show me the Ford CEO who gave him a quarter of a billion dollars and is now putting another one hundred million into his campaign, coffers, That's what's really different. Not to mention, of course Elon himself having this insanely powerful position in government where he really is deciding who stays, who goes, what happens, what's a priority, and funneling contracts into his own companies while he's at it, defenestrating the regulatory environment so that none of them can investigate his many, you know, alleged abuses of our regulatory system, including we just had yet another SpaceX rocket that blew up. So that's what makes this just so insanely nakedly corrupt, is you literally have the President filming an ad on the White House lawn for his largest by far campaign contributor.

Well, and it just to me, I don't understand what's in it for Donald Trump to be this And I know you have an answer to this, Crystal, but to be this gratuitous and to be this just completely fawning drooling over Elon Musk and Tesla We can actually put a seven on the screen. Skip ahead here. Trump was I don't want to say cock because I don't think he was trying to hide it, but he had some talking points in his hand as he was discussing the Tesla's where he had all of the prices listed out, sort of like you're doing a sales pitch.

Well, and it just to me, I don't understand what's in it for Donald Trump to be this And I know you have an answer to this, Crystal, but to be this gratuitous and to be this just completely fawning drooling over Elon Musk and Tesla We can actually put a seven on the screen. Skip ahead here. Trump was I don't want to say cock because I don't think he was trying to hide it, but he had some talking points in his hand as he was discussing the Tesla's where he had all of the prices listed out, sort of like you're doing a sales pitch.

The sales pitch notes. That's what it is.

The sales pitch notes. That's what it is.

Yeah, So yeah, and it's just it does you know, make you truly wonder? I mean, one hundred million dollars. It's kind of sad because that's less than half of what Elon Musk infused into Trump's campaign in the late stages, which is just the amount of money that he's able to just throw around is stunning. But it does just like for Trump to go to that links to sell electric vehicles. I mean, we're not even talking about we know he loves you know, Caterpillar. We know he loves the fun trucks and the big toys, but it just this isn't that these are like electric vehicles. These are not. Trump has himself come around on electric vehicles because of Elon Musk, but to go to all of the effort that they went to yesterday it just you, really it does. It does make you wonder. It's so out of character. I think for Trump that it really makes you wonder.

Yeah, So yeah, and it's just it does you know, make you truly wonder? I mean, one hundred million dollars. It's kind of sad because that's less than half of what Elon Musk infused into Trump's campaign in the late stages, which is just the amount of money that he's able to just throw around is stunning. But it does just like for Trump to go to that links to sell electric vehicles. I mean, we're not even talking about we know he loves you know, Caterpillar. We know he loves the fun trucks and the big toys, but it just this isn't that these are like electric vehicles. These are not. Trump has himself come around on electric vehicles because of Elon Musk, but to go to all of the effort that they went to yesterday it just you, really it does. It does make you wonder. It's so out of character. I think for Trump that it really makes you wonder.

So just buying buying evs to own the libs is a pretty funny development, you know.

So just buying buying evs to own the libs is a pretty funny development, you know.

Not even just buying them, but like obsessing, fawning over the product.

Not even just buying them, but like obsessing, fawning over the product.

Kannity too, Sean Hannity doing the same thing. He was running some promotion on his show and whatever. Like it is really preposterous and frankly humiliating. I mean, I also think it's sort of pathetic for Elon that he's gotten to this point with Tesla where he's got to beg the president for favors and to buy one and tout his product, et cetera. And Elon has been aggressively using x as well to promote, like people who were posting that on social media that they bought a Tesla to support Elon and how great Tesla is, et cetera. He's been using his platform a lot to do that because I mean, I think the company genuinely is in trouble. I also think their stock parts has long been like wildly overvalued. You know, there was an expectation not unreasonable after Trump was elected. Of course, Elon has this prominent position that that would be really beneficial for the company. But I think what wasn't priced in, to use the law of Wall Street lingo, is the fact that Elon would become this incredibly increasingly toxic figure for their primary customer base. And so you know, most people like they're not trying to make a political statement with their car, and now having a Tesla has become a political statement and like a divisive one. So yeah, that's going to turn off a significant portion of your likely consumer base, especially since it's mostly Libs who buy Tesla's, So it's it's a major problem. But you know, I just I can't get over the corruption aspect of this and how out in like out in the open it all is like literally the day he does the sales pitch, you announced you're doing this hundred million dollar cash infusion. Like, I mean, the Biden crime family couldn't dream, right, Pelosia insider trading, couldn't dream of this level of just naked pay for play that everyone's just like, yeah, that's just Trump, That's.

Kannity too, Sean Hannity doing the same thing. He was running some promotion on his show and whatever. Like it is really preposterous and frankly humiliating. I mean, I also think it's sort of pathetic for Elon that he's gotten to this point with Tesla where he's got to beg the president for favors and to buy one and tout his product, et cetera. And Elon has been aggressively using x as well to promote, like people who were posting that on social media that they bought a Tesla to support Elon and how great Tesla is, et cetera. He's been using his platform a lot to do that because I mean, I think the company genuinely is in trouble. I also think their stock parts has long been like wildly overvalued. You know, there was an expectation not unreasonable after Trump was elected. Of course, Elon has this prominent position that that would be really beneficial for the company. But I think what wasn't priced in, to use the law of Wall Street lingo, is the fact that Elon would become this incredibly increasingly toxic figure for their primary customer base. And so you know, most people like they're not trying to make a political statement with their car, and now having a Tesla has become a political statement and like a divisive one. So yeah, that's going to turn off a significant portion of your likely consumer base, especially since it's mostly Libs who buy Tesla's, So it's it's a major problem. But you know, I just I can't get over the corruption aspect of this and how out in like out in the open it all is like literally the day he does the sales pitch, you announced you're doing this hundred million dollar cash infusion. Like, I mean, the Biden crime family couldn't dream, right, Pelosia insider trading, couldn't dream of this level of just naked pay for play that everyone's just like, yeah, that's just Trump, That's.

Just what he does.

Just what he does.

The state has really taken on characteristics of both a sort of clienteleism which is just this very like transactional government where it's like, you know, patronage, and you do for me, and I'm going to do for you. I'm going to reward my friends, I'm going to screw over my enemies, and overt oligarchy. I mean, the fact that Elon is the richest person on the planet and Trump has stocked his cabinet with billionaires, and you've got Bezos and Zuckerberg and everybody else rushing in to be part of that favored oligarch class. I mean, I think those are sort of the two competing frameworks you should use to understand the choices that are being made here and the way Trump has decided to run his run the country this time. And you know, it's very consistent with if you're a CEO of a company, of a big company, and you're used to trying to kind of, you know, both being that transactional person and also being sort of like the king of this corporate empire. You can see how it appeals to him to run the country in exactly the same way, and this time that is precisely what is happening, because any of the checks and the guardrails that existed any of the like genuine resistance to him that existed in the first term is just completely like either melted away or they have taken affirmative staf apps to make sure that those guardrails do not hold this time around.

The state has really taken on characteristics of both a sort of clienteleism which is just this very like transactional government where it's like, you know, patronage, and you do for me, and I'm going to do for you. I'm going to reward my friends, I'm going to screw over my enemies, and overt oligarchy. I mean, the fact that Elon is the richest person on the planet and Trump has stocked his cabinet with billionaires, and you've got Bezos and Zuckerberg and everybody else rushing in to be part of that favored oligarch class. I mean, I think those are sort of the two competing frameworks you should use to understand the choices that are being made here and the way Trump has decided to run his run the country this time. And you know, it's very consistent with if you're a CEO of a company, of a big company, and you're used to trying to kind of, you know, both being that transactional person and also being sort of like the king of this corporate empire. You can see how it appeals to him to run the country in exactly the same way, and this time that is precisely what is happening, because any of the checks and the guardrails that existed any of the like genuine resistance to him that existed in the first term is just completely like either melted away or they have taken affirmative staf apps to make sure that those guardrails do not hold this time around.

I actually think if I were a Tesla investor, would make me nervous that Musk is so close to the government. It was always close to the government, but is this close to the government, because I think that just engenders a sense of complacency that would I mean, you end up getting so many favors that it's yeah, and we've talked about that before. Is like it's it's not it doesn't create better products. So we have to before we move on from this block and get to Jeff Crystal roll this clip of Peter Deucy from Fox News getting a great question in at this little daggle on the White House lawn yesterday. This is a six.

I actually think if I were a Tesla investor, would make me nervous that Musk is so close to the government. It was always close to the government, but is this close to the government, because I think that just engenders a sense of complacency that would I mean, you end up getting so many favors that it's yeah, and we've talked about that before. Is like it's it's not it doesn't create better products. So we have to before we move on from this block and get to Jeff Crystal roll this clip of Peter Deucy from Fox News getting a great question in at this little daggle on the White House lawn yesterday. This is a six.

Well, there are some folks to schools see this clip at home, and they are struggling with their retirement accounts down at the moment, uncertainty about work ahead.

Well, there are some folks to schools see this clip at home, and they are struggling with their retirement accounts down at the moment, uncertainty about work ahead.

Well, I think are going to do great.

Well, I think are going to do great.

I think we're our country had to do this. We had to go and do this. They've taken away other countries. If taken away our business, they've taken away our jobs. I did it initially very strongly against as you know, China and some others in the first term, and it was a very successful term. We had no inflation, we had the greatest economy in the history of our country.

I think we're our country had to do this. We had to go and do this. They've taken away other countries. If taken away our business, they've taken away our jobs. I did it initially very strongly against as you know, China and some others in the first term, and it was a very successful term. We had no inflation, we had the greatest economy in the history of our country.

So crystal again, Trump can get away with it. You know, at least we've seen that so far, and there's no sign that that pattern is going to stop when it comes to him as this very singular figure in American politics, but he surrounded himself with other billionaires essentially, and particularly with Elon Musk, and I think it's so long as they're doing the messaging, going to be harder and harder to say things like, yeah, you know, we're buying new cars and we're waiting out this transition period in the economy. So we just need you to be sort of patient with us billionaires.

So crystal again, Trump can get away with it. You know, at least we've seen that so far, and there's no sign that that pattern is going to stop when it comes to him as this very singular figure in American politics, but he surrounded himself with other billionaires essentially, and particularly with Elon Musk, and I think it's so long as they're doing the messaging, going to be harder and harder to say things like, yeah, you know, we're buying new cars and we're waiting out this transition period in the economy. So we just need you to be sort of patient with us billionaires.

Yeah, it's worth it. The recession is worth it. In the words, to return to you know, Howard Lutnik at the beginning of the show, and I got to hand it to Peter Deucy, that was a great question and a really apt question, as much as I love Sargar's Annetti's questions. Yesterday in the briefing room, Peter Deucy also had a really great one too.

Yeah, it's worth it. The recession is worth it. In the words, to return to you know, Howard Lutnik at the beginning of the show, and I got to hand it to Peter Deucy, that was a great question and a really apt question, as much as I love Sargar's Annetti's questions. Yesterday in the briefing room, Peter Deucy also had a really great one too.

He was like, you know, it's.

He was like, you know, it's.

Kind of like a offhanded one, but also very legit. He was like, sure, nobody around here shorten the stock market, you know, gesturing towards this theory that's out there of like, you know, with you generating all of these wild swings in the market, Hey, if you're an insider and you know what's going to happen, you could really be in position to profit off of this. And you know, this White House has done away with inspectors generals. They've rolled back some of the ethics provisions for the White House that were in place during the Biden administration. They engage in activities like selling tessels on the White House lawn while Elon Musk is funneling another one hundred million dollars into Trump aligned packs. Trump is there, people are paying CEOs are paying five million dollars for the honor of being able to have a dinner with Trump, and again that goes into like trumpell packs so that they can make their case directly in this sort of like oligarchic or clienteleist way to the King and receive his favor. And this is the way business is being done with Elon and Doge as well. Where you know, if you're a Republican senator, not actually a member of the House, but a Republican senator, you have Elan's personal phone number, and if there's a project in your district that gets cut that is causing you problems, you can call him, and you can petition the King for a favor and for special relief. If you are not in his political favor, which means every Democrat you know, whether you're in a red state or a blue state, or your state, whatever, then you don't have that same opportunity to petition the King and get the painful cuts to your constituents rolled back, even though many of those constituents will also be Republicans who voted for Donald Trump.

Kind of like a offhanded one, but also very legit. He was like, sure, nobody around here shorten the stock market, you know, gesturing towards this theory that's out there of like, you know, with you generating all of these wild swings in the market, Hey, if you're an insider and you know what's going to happen, you could really be in position to profit off of this. And you know, this White House has done away with inspectors generals. They've rolled back some of the ethics provisions for the White House that were in place during the Biden administration. They engage in activities like selling tessels on the White House lawn while Elon Musk is funneling another one hundred million dollars into Trump aligned packs. Trump is there, people are paying CEOs are paying five million dollars for the honor of being able to have a dinner with Trump, and again that goes into like trumpell packs so that they can make their case directly in this sort of like oligarchic or clienteleist way to the King and receive his favor. And this is the way business is being done with Elon and Doge as well. Where you know, if you're a Republican senator, not actually a member of the House, but a Republican senator, you have Elan's personal phone number, and if there's a project in your district that gets cut that is causing you problems, you can call him, and you can petition the King for a favor and for special relief. If you are not in his political favor, which means every Democrat you know, whether you're in a red state or a blue state, or your state, whatever, then you don't have that same opportunity to petition the King and get the painful cuts to your constituents rolled back, even though many of those constituents will also be Republicans who voted for Donald Trump.

Well, let's bring Jeff Stein into drill down even deeper on this question that is rocking the economy. Excited to be joined now by Washington Post reporter Jeff Stein, who has been all over the story. Jeff, thank you for joining us.

Well, let's bring Jeff Stein into drill down even deeper on this question that is rocking the economy. Excited to be joined now by Washington Post reporter Jeff Stein, who has been all over the story. Jeff, thank you for joining us.

Thanks for having me, guys.

Thanks for having me, guys.

As we start, I want to get your reaction to this clip. I'm sure you've seen it by now, but of Donald Trump on the White House long yesterday, all those tesla's behind him, Elon Musk by his side, responding to a question about Doug Ford. Let's go ahead and roll b one.

As we start, I want to get your reaction to this clip. I'm sure you've seen it by now, but of Donald Trump on the White House long yesterday, all those tesla's behind him, Elon Musk by his side, responding to a question about Doug Ford. Let's go ahead and roll b one.

Well, already Canada, and I respect very much. As you know, there's a very strong man in Canada who said he was going to.

Well, already Canada, and I respect very much. As you know, there's a very strong man in Canada who said he was going to.

Charge a search charge.

Charge a search charge.

You're a taraphone electricity coming into Ochiga. He is called and he said.

You're a taraphone electricity coming into Ochiga. He is called and he said.

He's not going to do that.

He's not going to do that.

Okay, he's not going to do that, and it would have been a very bad thing if you did. And he's not going to do this. So I respect that. But we were just informed that he's not going to do that.

Okay, he's not going to do that, and it would have been a very bad thing if you did. And he's not going to do this. So I respect that. But we were just informed that he's not going to do that.

So that's Trump referring to Ontario, Doug Ford of Ontario, and Jeff, I think that is you know, I don't know what actually happened there. Maybe you have a better idea of what actually happened between Trump and Doug Ford, a very strong man, as Trump says, But I guess it speaks to the complicated interpersonal dynamics that are affecting the tariffs overall. As Trump negotiates with Canadian leaders. So do you have any insight into what went down?

So that's Trump referring to Ontario, Doug Ford of Ontario, and Jeff, I think that is you know, I don't know what actually happened there. Maybe you have a better idea of what actually happened between Trump and Doug Ford, a very strong man, as Trump says, But I guess it speaks to the complicated interpersonal dynamics that are affecting the tariffs overall. As Trump negotiates with Canadian leaders. So do you have any insight into what went down?

I don't have the specific time on that call. We know for sure that the Canadians had threatened not just to raise the price of electricity for you know, roughly a million Americans, but to actually shut it off. And you know what the you know, administration announced yesterday was that the doubling of the steel aluminium tariffs that Trump had proposed from twenty five to fifty percent, which would have been really bad for Canada. One of the top Canadian exports to the US is steel, and had that gone into effect, it would have probably you know, invited the retaliation that Ford was alluding to. So it's a little hard to know exactly what the sequence was of this, And not to make excuses for my reporting gaps, but this is playing off, playing out across dozens, if not hundreds of countries right now, trying to avoid the import duties, the massive you know, tariff taxes that Trump is imposing, and what I guess what what ringing between the lines. It seems what happened was the Trump people had been back channeling that this twenty five to fifty percent hike and stale aluminum was likely, and that came off yesterday back to twenty five percent around the time that Trump announced that the this you know that that Canada was not going to retaliate on American electricity, you know, on the users and in those northern states. But the degree to which this can just fly off the handle at any moment is pretty unnerving, especially if you're someone who needs you know, Canadians have provided electricity.

I don't have the specific time on that call. We know for sure that the Canadians had threatened not just to raise the price of electricity for you know, roughly a million Americans, but to actually shut it off. And you know what the you know, administration announced yesterday was that the doubling of the steel aluminium tariffs that Trump had proposed from twenty five to fifty percent, which would have been really bad for Canada. One of the top Canadian exports to the US is steel, and had that gone into effect, it would have probably you know, invited the retaliation that Ford was alluding to. So it's a little hard to know exactly what the sequence was of this, And not to make excuses for my reporting gaps, but this is playing off, playing out across dozens, if not hundreds of countries right now, trying to avoid the import duties, the massive you know, tariff taxes that Trump is imposing, and what I guess what what ringing between the lines. It seems what happened was the Trump people had been back channeling that this twenty five to fifty percent hike and stale aluminum was likely, and that came off yesterday back to twenty five percent around the time that Trump announced that the this you know that that Canada was not going to retaliate on American electricity, you know, on the users and in those northern states. But the degree to which this can just fly off the handle at any moment is pretty unnerving, especially if you're someone who needs you know, Canadians have provided electricity.

Yeah, I would, I would say so, I mean, you know, to kind of bring people up to speed. Yesterday, there was this back and forth between Trump and the Canadians. At the end of the day, Trump decided to roll back the things that had been threatened. But there are still other terrorists that are going into effect today. I mean, there are a lot of theories, Jeff out there about what the hell Trump is up to, Like is this really about reindustrializing the country, because the approach doesn't really make sense for that. It's definitely not really about fentanyl, like I think we can all see through. That's kind of ridiculous given the very small amounts of that drug that come from Canada. There have been some theories about how this is an attempt to actually do some sort of controlled demolition of the economy, both to keep inflation down and also to trigger interest rates being lowered so that a refinance on the treasury debt will be more affordable. Trudeau certainly thinks that Trump is serious about using economic warfare to annex some or all of Canada. I've seen some other sort of like eight D chess type theories out there. The other you know, then there's more sort of like the various theories, like they just want to use these market spikes to insider trade and people are profiting off of it, or they want to trigger a recession because guess what coming out of recessions, usually the rich people get even richer, the banks get even bigger, and given that the government is being run, you know, effectively as like an oligarchy, maybe that's the end goal here, is they actually want to generate a recession.