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We need your help to build the future of independent news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints dot com. Let's get over to Elon Musk and the fight right now with Steve Bannon. This is just absolutely fascinating in terms of who's winning and some of the other behind the scenes fights that are happening right now.

Let's put this up there on the screen.

Let's put this up there on the screen.

Trump is currently playing Maga civil war mediator between Steve Bannon and Elon Musk, and has asked Bannon last month that he wants him to sit down with Elon and to hash out their differences. He also asked him to stop a series of blistering attacks on the super White House Advisor and the Tesla CEO. Now, no meeting has actually happened yet, and it's quote not clear if one actually will. And all of this is because Musk. He has called Musk, for example, a parasitic illegal immigrant, a truly evil person. He's called him out also in terms of medicaid cuts, entitlements, the vision on doge just generally, whether they quote oligarchs in them should be in power recently, Actually, he replied to a tweet, this was just last month. Ian Miles Chong tweeted, Stephen see Bannon's just mad. Elon's getting all the attention for doing a damn good job with USAI d let Man. Hegseth manage the DoD Elon replied, Bannon is a great talker, but not a great doer.

Trump is currently playing Maga civil war mediator between Steve Bannon and Elon Musk, and has asked Bannon last month that he wants him to sit down with Elon and to hash out their differences. He also asked him to stop a series of blistering attacks on the super White House Advisor and the Tesla CEO. Now, no meeting has actually happened yet, and it's quote not clear if one actually will. And all of this is because Musk. He has called Musk, for example, a parasitic illegal immigrant, a truly evil person. He's called him out also in terms of medicaid cuts, entitlements, the vision on doge just generally, whether they quote oligarchs in them should be in power recently, Actually, he replied to a tweet, this was just last month. Ian Miles Chong tweeted, Stephen see Bannon's just mad. Elon's getting all the attention for doing a damn good job with USAI d let Man. Hegseth manage the DoD Elon replied, Bannon is a great talker, but not a great doer.

What did he get done this week? Nothing?

What did he get done this week? Nothing?

So okay, send to your bullet Steve Ban. Yeah.

So okay, send to your bullet Steve Ban. Yeah.

And so Steve Bannon, you know, even told New York Times quote he's still he's still not a popular nationalists, he's a globalist and quote he and I have a chasm that is probably insurmountable. Thought it was absolutely interesting because at the very same time that this is all playing out. We're getting a lot of indications of like who's winning this. You're talking in your monologue, Crystal about Elon basically, you know, getting huge support from the President of the United States saying that he's going to go out and buy a Tesla today to prop up the stock after it lost like fifteen percent of its value just yesterday. I think it's erased all of its gains from the day that Trump got himself elected. Similarly, right now, inside of Doge, there is a fear that public backlash is and the PR crisis basically that they find themselves in is that they're quote searching for wins. So this profile into them is absolutely fascinating. Let's put this on the screen. Quote turmoil within Dose spills into public view as Musk's group confronts a PR crisis. Elon Musk Doge is hunting for wins as it raises to finish slashing the federal bureaucrac and move on to more quote constructive work of building digital tools.

And so Steve Bannon, you know, even told New York Times quote he's still he's still not a popular nationalists, he's a globalist and quote he and I have a chasm that is probably insurmountable. Thought it was absolutely interesting because at the very same time that this is all playing out. We're getting a lot of indications of like who's winning this. You're talking in your monologue, Crystal about Elon basically, you know, getting huge support from the President of the United States saying that he's going to go out and buy a Tesla today to prop up the stock after it lost like fifteen percent of its value just yesterday. I think it's erased all of its gains from the day that Trump got himself elected. Similarly, right now, inside of Doge, there is a fear that public backlash is and the PR crisis basically that they find themselves in is that they're quote searching for wins. So this profile into them is absolutely fascinating. Let's put this on the screen. Quote turmoil within Dose spills into public view as Musk's group confronts a PR crisis. Elon Musk Doge is hunting for wins as it raises to finish slashing the federal bureaucrac and move on to more quote constructive work of building digital tools.

For the government.

For the government.

So there is a feeling, according to this insider account from Doge, is that quote I think everyone there knows they need to do a better job of telling the story and that it's going to be a big component of the next phase of Doge leaning into storytelling and showing the wins and not having the story told for them. They have had obviously issues of navigating this, just with the Doge account claims of things that were cut, having to bring people back, a lot of it having to just do with the chaotic nature of Elon himself, but more broadly, I just thought it was interesting because they are starting to feel pressure, at least from the outside and possibly from the inside as well. Elon did an interview yesterday in the White House where he said he would stay on with DOGE for at least another year or is that he wants to and he said I would like to cut up a trillion if we're not stopped. I thought it was an interesting line for him to throw out there, So maybe he's feeling pressure as well.

So there is a feeling, according to this insider account from Doge, is that quote I think everyone there knows they need to do a better job of telling the story and that it's going to be a big component of the next phase of Doge leaning into storytelling and showing the wins and not having the story told for them. They have had obviously issues of navigating this, just with the Doge account claims of things that were cut, having to bring people back, a lot of it having to just do with the chaotic nature of Elon himself, but more broadly, I just thought it was interesting because they are starting to feel pressure, at least from the outside and possibly from the inside as well. Elon did an interview yesterday in the White House where he said he would stay on with DOGE for at least another year or is that he wants to and he said I would like to cut up a trillion if we're not stopped. I thought it was an interesting line for him to throw out there, So maybe he's feeling pressure as well.

Yeah, very interesting.

Yeah, very interesting.

And those quotes that the Washington Post got, they actually got leaked audio, so it's not like a you know, someone in the room claim blah blah blah. They actually, you know, they had the transfer. They were able to listen to the audio to get quotes like I need wins to defend and to really get a sense of the fact that there is a bit of an internal freak out at DOGE because they realize that the you know, they're looking at the polls, they see that people are moving on from the general support from of like, oh, yes, let's trim the government, let's trim the fat, let's root out the waste for an abuse to their more specific experience with the federal government, and also just the chaos of this and the lives that they've gotten caught in and all of those sorts of things. There's also some interesting notes in this article as well about how some of the things that they've been doing have been incredibly counterproductive. So, you know, before Elon Musk and DOGE came in, in fact, they took over this digital service agency that did some of the things that Musk claims to want to do about making government technology quote quote more efficient. And so one of the things they say here is Musk is repeatedly criticized Social Security, one of the government's most popular programs. Do staffers have been working inside the agency, but an effort to give the Social Security website and services a user friendly digital overhaul was already underway. At the US Digital Service until Musk pushed out the team working on it, so they actually were already working on a thing that he would want them to work on, and then those people were pushed down and so now they're starting from scratch. I mean it just again shows like the nature of just coming in thinking you know everything, and also you know they're The focus from Elon has been much more on this sort of grand standing and throwing his weight around and really crippling agencies that his companies directly interact with. Then I think a focus on these how do we make things actually more efficient? How do we make the tech profile of the federal government, which Lord knows it needs an upgrade, no doubt about that, that that they could actually deliver on that. One of the other things that I thought was interesting here is remember how originally they had been attacking the digital like e file system that goes around TurboTax so that people can directly file their taxes with the government, which saves the money. I mean, the TurboTax is basically like a cartel that was forcing you to use their product, and so they had developed this way to file directly with the government and avoid turbo tax and saves you money, et cetera.

And those quotes that the Washington Post got, they actually got leaked audio, so it's not like a you know, someone in the room claim blah blah blah. They actually, you know, they had the transfer. They were able to listen to the audio to get quotes like I need wins to defend and to really get a sense of the fact that there is a bit of an internal freak out at DOGE because they realize that the you know, they're looking at the polls, they see that people are moving on from the general support from of like, oh, yes, let's trim the government, let's trim the fat, let's root out the waste for an abuse to their more specific experience with the federal government, and also just the chaos of this and the lives that they've gotten caught in and all of those sorts of things. There's also some interesting notes in this article as well about how some of the things that they've been doing have been incredibly counterproductive. So, you know, before Elon Musk and DOGE came in, in fact, they took over this digital service agency that did some of the things that Musk claims to want to do about making government technology quote quote more efficient. And so one of the things they say here is Musk is repeatedly criticized Social Security, one of the government's most popular programs. Do staffers have been working inside the agency, but an effort to give the Social Security website and services a user friendly digital overhaul was already underway. At the US Digital Service until Musk pushed out the team working on it, so they actually were already working on a thing that he would want them to work on, and then those people were pushed down and so now they're starting from scratch. I mean it just again shows like the nature of just coming in thinking you know everything, and also you know they're The focus from Elon has been much more on this sort of grand standing and throwing his weight around and really crippling agencies that his companies directly interact with. Then I think a focus on these how do we make things actually more efficient? How do we make the tech profile of the federal government, which Lord knows it needs an upgrade, no doubt about that, that that they could actually deliver on that. One of the other things that I thought was interesting here is remember how originally they had been attacking the digital like e file system that goes around TurboTax so that people can directly file their taxes with the government, which saves the money. I mean, the TurboTax is basically like a cartel that was forcing you to use their product, and so they had developed this way to file directly with the government and avoid turbo tax and saves you money, et cetera.

They initially were attacking that.

They initially were attacking that.

Now they're saying, you know what, maybe actually, because this is a popular program and good thing, maybe we should expand that so that people have some personal sense of like, Okay, I can see how this is benefiting me versus Right now, everybody's just seeing job loss, you know, and really callous mass job loss, national parks getting screwed over, the FAA being attacked, veterans being fired, social Security under assault, etc. So, yeah, it was kind of interesting that they realized that they have a bit of a pr problem. Just to go back quickly to the Elon Bannon thing, I mean, I do think that this relationship is really important to watch and because they represent, you know, the sort of like two distilled ideologies that are in competition right now in the Trump administration. And you know, thus far to your point, soccer like Elon's ideology has obviously been winning out.

Now they're saying, you know what, maybe actually, because this is a popular program and good thing, maybe we should expand that so that people have some personal sense of like, Okay, I can see how this is benefiting me versus Right now, everybody's just seeing job loss, you know, and really callous mass job loss, national parks getting screwed over, the FAA being attacked, veterans being fired, social Security under assault, etc. So, yeah, it was kind of interesting that they realized that they have a bit of a pr problem. Just to go back quickly to the Elon Bannon thing, I mean, I do think that this relationship is really important to watch and because they represent, you know, the sort of like two distilled ideologies that are in competition right now in the Trump administration. And you know, thus far to your point, soccer like Elon's ideology has obviously been winning out.

Uh.

Uh.

There's no guarantees that that continues to be the case, but that is certainly the case today. I did notice Emily recommend I listened to Bannon on Tim Dillon Show.

There's no guarantees that that continues to be the case, but that is certainly the case today. I did notice Emily recommend I listened to Bannon on Tim Dillon Show.

I don't know if you listened to that. I took.

I don't know if you listened to that. I took.

I listened to it, and I did note that he he It's not that he wasn't critical at all of Elon, but he had definitely dialed back his criticism. And it was before we got this news that Trump had had a talk and like, oh, you guys need to sit down and work it out. So I felt like some message had already been sent of like Okay, this is you know, you got to stop calling him a parasitic legal immigrant.

I listened to it, and I did note that he he It's not that he wasn't critical at all of Elon, but he had definitely dialed back his criticism. And it was before we got this news that Trump had had a talk and like, oh, you guys need to sit down and work it out. So I felt like some message had already been sent of like Okay, this is you know, you got to stop calling him a parasitic legal immigrant.

It's these sorts of things, you know.

It's these sorts of things, you know.

And also he called South Africans the most white South Africans the most racist people on the planet as well, which I also enjoyed.

And also he called South Africans the most white South Africans the most racist people on the planet as well, which I also enjoyed.

Yeah, it was definitely amusing. All right, let's get to the next one.

Yeah, it was definitely amusing. All right, let's get to the next one.

This was just just an interesting thing that happened yesterday and potentially a consequence of Elon now being a senior government official. He gave an interview to Fox Businesses Larry Kudlow shortly after a huge outage at Twitter and or x basically all day the site was rendered unusable for several hours, especially during the workday. Well, here is Elon saying that it was a massive cyber attack and then it originated in Ukraine.

This was just just an interesting thing that happened yesterday and potentially a consequence of Elon now being a senior government official. He gave an interview to Fox Businesses Larry Kudlow shortly after a huge outage at Twitter and or x basically all day the site was rendered unusable for several hours, especially during the workday. Well, here is Elon saying that it was a massive cyber attack and then it originated in Ukraine.

Let's take a listen.

Let's take a listen.

There was a cyber attack on X today which shut it down and may have been foreign sourced.

There was a cyber attack on X today which shut it down and may have been foreign sourced.

It's a big story.

It's a big story.

You want to give us a moment on that.

You want to give us a moment on that.

Well, we're not sure exactly what happened, but there was a massive cyber attack to try to bring down the X system with ip addresses originating in the Ukraine area.

Well, we're not sure exactly what happened, but there was a massive cyber attack to try to bring down the X system with ip addresses originating in the Ukraine area.

IPA addresses originating in the Ukraine area. What he has to say, let's put this up there on the screen. What he said right prior to that, he said, there is still a massive cyber attack against X. We get attacked every day, but this was done with a lot of resources, either a large coordinated group and or a country is involved tracing dot dot dot then blaming Ukraine there shortly afterwards. We haven't had cloud Flare or anybody else release any data on the attack, and they haven't done that as well, but you know, it genuinely could be a consequence of don't forget. Elon also uses his Twitter account often to basically disagree with the policy of the Ukrainian government. He recently attacked Senator Mark Kelly for visiting Ukraine. He has been talking about Ukraine corruption and or you know, but pushing for a peace deal now for quite some time. He got into a huge spat with the Polish foreig Ad minister over Starlink and the payment for that system that's being used in Ukraine right now. So is no great friend to Ukraine. I mean, I think that's fine, But also don't forget their own cyber you know unit inside of their agency is trained by the best and brightest of the United States of America, so I wouldn't put it past them necessarily, although we don't yet have any proof, it would make sense. I mean, it could also be a series of other you know, foreign actors and or even criminals, right because if you want, this is what Russia and China do very often, they won't have their direct intelligence agents actually do the hacking. They'll outsource it to some criminal element which will also get a financial benefit for doing so, and or state sponsorship, or at the very least looking the other way.

IPA addresses originating in the Ukraine area. What he has to say, let's put this up there on the screen. What he said right prior to that, he said, there is still a massive cyber attack against X. We get attacked every day, but this was done with a lot of resources, either a large coordinated group and or a country is involved tracing dot dot dot then blaming Ukraine there shortly afterwards. We haven't had cloud Flare or anybody else release any data on the attack, and they haven't done that as well, but you know, it genuinely could be a consequence of don't forget. Elon also uses his Twitter account often to basically disagree with the policy of the Ukrainian government. He recently attacked Senator Mark Kelly for visiting Ukraine. He has been talking about Ukraine corruption and or you know, but pushing for a peace deal now for quite some time. He got into a huge spat with the Polish foreig Ad minister over Starlink and the payment for that system that's being used in Ukraine right now. So is no great friend to Ukraine. I mean, I think that's fine, But also don't forget their own cyber you know unit inside of their agency is trained by the best and brightest of the United States of America, so I wouldn't put it past them necessarily, although we don't yet have any proof, it would make sense. I mean, it could also be a series of other you know, foreign actors and or even criminals, right because if you want, this is what Russia and China do very often, they won't have their direct intelligence agents actually do the hacking. They'll outsource it to some criminal element which will also get a financial benefit for doing so, and or state sponsorship, or at the very least looking the other way.

So we don't know.

So we don't know.

Ukraine's always been it's been in nexus for cybercrime for the last twenty five years, so it wouldn't also be It's not out of the question that it's also a non governmental actor, although I don't think so. If it is Ukraine, I don't know. It could also be bad service.

Ukraine's always been it's been in nexus for cybercrime for the last twenty five years, so it wouldn't also be It's not out of the question that it's also a non governmental actor, although I don't think so. If it is Ukraine, I don't know. It could also be bad service.

Who knows. That's problem with Elon. We have no idea they true.

Who knows. That's problem with Elon. We have no idea they true.

That is all totally accurate.

That is all totally accurate.

Ukraine just launched a mass drone strike on Moscow actually, which just I.

Ukraine just launched a mass drone strike on Moscow actually, which just I.

Mean we actually my friend Lex Friedman was in Moscow. Oh really, I've tweeted it. He apparently narrowly missed the drone attack that happened to him. So yeah, Ukraine, you know, maybe not the smartest move to try nearly assassinate with one of the most famous podcasters in the United States. And you know they also happened to do that Crystal. I'm not sure if you saw right before they walked into a peace meeting with the Russians.

Mean we actually my friend Lex Friedman was in Moscow. Oh really, I've tweeted it. He apparently narrowly missed the drone attack that happened to him. So yeah, Ukraine, you know, maybe not the smartest move to try nearly assassinate with one of the most famous podcasters in the United States. And you know they also happened to do that Crystal. I'm not sure if you saw right before they walked into a peace meeting with the Russians.

Well, I think that was the point, smart I was to demonstrate, you know, we can, you know, we can hit you where it hurts. But my point is only like, obviously the Krainians are willing to do a wild shit, but also I don't trust Elon Musk whatsoever.

Well, I think that was the point, smart I was to demonstrate, you know, we can, you know, we can hit you where it hurts. But my point is only like, obviously the Krainians are willing to do a wild shit, but also I don't trust Elon Musk whatsoever.

So who knows.

So who knows.

I feel like this is very I don't know, it's a very It is a very convenient explanation for twitter ounage yesterday because it aligns with Elon's for you know, foreign policy views, and it lets Twitter off the hook for any potential engineering or technical failure.

I feel like this is very I don't know, it's a very It is a very convenient explanation for twitter ounage yesterday because it aligns with Elon's for you know, foreign policy views, and it lets Twitter off the hook for any potential engineering or technical failure.

So maybe, But also I don't know. I don't know.

So maybe, But also I don't know. I don't know.

I would need to see more proof and evidence before I came to any conclusions about any of this. I saw there was some Hacket collective that claimed to be like non political, just sort of like flexing their muscle, that took credit for it. But I have no idea if there's any voracity.

I would need to see more proof and evidence before I came to any conclusions about any of this. I saw there was some Hacket collective that claimed to be like non political, just sort of like flexing their muscle, that took credit for it. But I have no idea if there's any voracity.

That's another there. Look, there's a lot of liberals in the world, especially also in Europe. There's a lot of cyber criminals there too. A lot of them are very pro Ukraine. They could hacked him as well. I mean, so who knows.

That's another there. Look, there's a lot of liberals in the world, especially also in Europe. There's a lot of cyber criminals there too. A lot of them are very pro Ukraine. They could hacked him as well. I mean, so who knows.

Maybe it doesn't ask me about I mean, John's got a lot of enemies around the world. I mean, he's messed in politics in multiple countries all over the place. Is approval rating is in the toilet basically everywhere. As I'm about to cover my monologue having massive impact on Tesla in particular, where sales are falling off a cliff and where the stock price has just been you know, absolutely plummeting. So you know, if someone was trying to cause damage to him, his reputation's company, just to cause trouble or whatever. There are many potential suspects who would want to take aim at Elon Musk, but certainly the Ukrainian government or aligned forces is one of those.

Maybe it doesn't ask me about I mean, John's got a lot of enemies around the world. I mean, he's messed in politics in multiple countries all over the place. Is approval rating is in the toilet basically everywhere. As I'm about to cover my monologue having massive impact on Tesla in particular, where sales are falling off a cliff and where the stock price has just been you know, absolutely plummeting. So you know, if someone was trying to cause damage to him, his reputation's company, just to cause trouble or whatever. There are many potential suspects who would want to take aim at Elon Musk, but certainly the Ukrainian government or aligned forces is one of those.

Absolutely absolutely right, Crystal, what are you taking a look at?

Absolutely absolutely right, Crystal, what are you taking a look at?

Well?

Well?

Yesterday the entire stock market after Trump refused yet again to rule out plunging the country into recession. Among the harder hit stocks in the general selloff was Tesla, which has increasingly struggled with plummeting sales since Elon made himself king here in the US and jumped into politics on behalf of right wing candidates and causes. In countries around the world, Tesla sales have fallen off so hard that Volkswagen has actually surpassed Tesla in EV sales. Outside of China. I was shocked by that European sales for Tesla they have dropped by nearly half. The company did, though, get a boost from the President of the United States, who announced he's going to buy a Tesla to support the Great Elon. In a post he said, in part, the radical left lunatics, as they often do, are trying to illegally and collusively. Boycat caught Tesla, one of the world's great automakers and Elon's baby, in order to attack and do harm to Elon and everything he stands for. In any event, I'm going to buy a brand new Tesla tomorrow morning as a show of confidence and support for Elon Musk.

Yesterday the entire stock market after Trump refused yet again to rule out plunging the country into recession. Among the harder hit stocks in the general selloff was Tesla, which has increasingly struggled with plummeting sales since Elon made himself king here in the US and jumped into politics on behalf of right wing candidates and causes. In countries around the world, Tesla sales have fallen off so hard that Volkswagen has actually surpassed Tesla in EV sales. Outside of China. I was shocked by that European sales for Tesla they have dropped by nearly half. The company did, though, get a boost from the President of the United States, who announced he's going to buy a Tesla to support the Great Elon. In a post he said, in part, the radical left lunatics, as they often do, are trying to illegally and collusively. Boycat caught Tesla, one of the world's great automakers and Elon's baby, in order to attack and do harm to Elon and everything he stands for. In any event, I'm going to buy a brand new Tesla tomorrow morning as a show of confidence and support for Elon Musk.

A truly great American.

A truly great American.

I guess Elon is feeling sensitive enough about Tesla's too, asked for a presidential favor for his baby. Now amidst all this turmoil, there is a brewing possible scandal that has so far gotten little attention, but it could become a little more significant. Could also be a potential indicator of just how desperate the floundering company has become as pressures from a toxic leader, a stale product line, and increased competition, Mount Tesla is now being investigated for possible government fraud, not of our government, but of Canada and irony, to say the least, at a moment when Elon is posturing like the ultimate warrior against government waste fraud abuse. Lest you think this is some sort of politically motivated witch hunt because of Elon's position and an administration currently waging economic war on Canada. Take a listen to the facts from this local Canadian news report.

I guess Elon is feeling sensitive enough about Tesla's too, asked for a presidential favor for his baby. Now amidst all this turmoil, there is a brewing possible scandal that has so far gotten little attention, but it could become a little more significant. Could also be a potential indicator of just how desperate the floundering company has become as pressures from a toxic leader, a stale product line, and increased competition, Mount Tesla is now being investigated for possible government fraud, not of our government, but of Canada and irony, to say the least, at a moment when Elon is posturing like the ultimate warrior against government waste fraud abuse. Lest you think this is some sort of politically motivated witch hunt because of Elon's position and an administration currently waging economic war on Canada. Take a listen to the facts from this local Canadian news report.

A suspicious spike in Tesla sales has experts in the industry scratching their heads. It started with a deadline in January for Ottawa's rebate program on electric vehicles that allegedly prompted a mad rush to buy evs. Cdv's Adrian Gobriel has been crunching the numbers. Adrian, do they add up?

A suspicious spike in Tesla sales has experts in the industry scratching their heads. It started with a deadline in January for Ottawa's rebate program on electric vehicles that allegedly prompted a mad rush to buy evs. Cdv's Adrian Gobriel has been crunching the numbers. Adrian, do they add up?

Sandy? A spike in purchases was to be expected, though, the reported sale of eighty six hundred Teslas equaling forty three million dollars in rebates at four Canadian testl the locations has sparked plenty of questions.

Sandy? A spike in purchases was to be expected, though, the reported sale of eighty six hundred Teslas equaling forty three million dollars in rebates at four Canadian testl the locations has sparked plenty of questions.

In the West End of Toronto. This one test the location alone reported selling more than twelve hundred vehicles on January eleventh, totaling more than four million dollars in rebates. So we paid them a visit to try and get some clarity on the staggering number of sales.

In the West End of Toronto. This one test the location alone reported selling more than twelve hundred vehicles on January eleventh, totaling more than four million dollars in rebates. So we paid them a visit to try and get some clarity on the staggering number of sales.

How are you good?

How are you good?

How are you good?

How are you good?

Good?

Good?

My name's Adrian Gobriel.

My name's Adrian Gobriel.

I'm a journalist with CTV News.

I'm a journalist with CTV News.

I think there was a large increase in the number of sales processed through the EV rebate program.

I think there was a large increase in the number of sales processed through the EV rebate program.

Just trying to get.

Just trying to get.

An understanding of perhaps what maybe some of the reasons were behind that. Did that take place or is that a backlog of paperwork going through You can't share any comments. Is there any manager you think that might be able to end the manager?

An understanding of perhaps what maybe some of the reasons were behind that. Did that take place or is that a backlog of paperwork going through You can't share any comments. Is there any manager you think that might be able to end the manager?

Our multiple emails to Tesla's headquarters have been met with silence.

Our multiple emails to Tesla's headquarters have been met with silence.

It defies logic that these corporate stores of Tesla and Tesla shareholders and Elon Musk would be able to sell eighty six.

It defies logic that these corporate stores of Tesla and Tesla shareholders and Elon Musk would be able to sell eighty six.

Hundred vehicles in a single weekend. There's something highly unusual about this, so.

Hundred vehicles in a single weekend. There's something highly unusual about this, so.

To recap Canada has been running an EV rebate program which has been quite popular and quite successful. The way the program works is that when a customer purchase and purchases an EV, the cost of the rebate is originally fronted by the dealership. Then the dealer receives reimbursement from the government. Now, in early January, the government announced the fund was running low on money and might be suspended sometime in the next few weeks.

To recap Canada has been running an EV rebate program which has been quite popular and quite successful. The way the program works is that when a customer purchase and purchases an EV, the cost of the rebate is originally fronted by the dealership. Then the dealer receives reimbursement from the government. Now, in early January, the government announced the fund was running low on money and might be suspended sometime in the next few weeks.

And that is when four Tesla.

And that is when four Tesla.

Dealerships pulled off the biggest miracle since Fish and Loaves somehow selling eighty six hundred cars in just three days. One dealership claims to have sold four thousand Teslas over this period. Now that is quite a jump from the few dozen or so cars that they had previously been moving per day. I really got to see those morning sales meetings, I guess. I mean, are they hypnotizing the customers? Are they handing out tariff exemptions? Did they switch the complimentary coffee for pre workout and crack? According to car scoops and basic math, this level of sales would have required each of these four Tesla stores to sell thirty cars per hour, twenty four hours per day for three straight days. Now, if you scale the time back to the actual hours when the dealerships were even open, you would have more than one car sold every minute at each of these dealers across that three day period. Insane, As one government official told the Toronto Star quote, Tesla did not sell those cars that weekend. Now, Tesla went on to claim forty three million dollars in rebates, sucking up about half the remaining balance in the rebate fund, leaving other EV dealers holding the bag after they sold vehicles with the rebate priced in expecting to get a refund from the government. According to the Canadian Auto Dealers Association, independent dealers or out of pocket about ten million dollars after Tesla's car rebate application bomb. Now, perhaps people just saw the rebate was ending and decided in spectacular numbers to buy a Tesla before that perk went away. Cutting against that notion, however, is that, like the rest of the world, Canadian Tesla sales have been absolutely tanking, declining some seventy percent month over month. I think a more plausible explanation is that Tesla had sold a bunch of cars with the rebate over a number of months never filed those applications with the government. But that explanation too has some holes. Why the mass surge at just these few dealerships. Also, according to the Toronto Star, the program does require that rebate applications be filed before a car is delivered. Transport Canada did admit, however, that this policy was not being fully enforced, So we'll see what the government investigation turns up ultimately. Now, whether Tesla gained the system far and square, fudged the rules, or outright defrauded it, it's one more reason Canadians are certainly pissed at Musk and Tesla at a time when both the man and the company are facing massive global backlash. Here in the US, Tesla has attracted protests and property damage. Charging stations have been set on fire, cars have been tagged with stickers of Elon sighile, and protests have targeted Tesla dealerships across the country. For Elon personally, there is obviously a lot of state. It's believed that Tesla makes up about a third of Elon's net worth, and it's not like all his other business ventures are going particularly smoothly.

Dealerships pulled off the biggest miracle since Fish and Loaves somehow selling eighty six hundred cars in just three days. One dealership claims to have sold four thousand Teslas over this period. Now that is quite a jump from the few dozen or so cars that they had previously been moving per day. I really got to see those morning sales meetings, I guess. I mean, are they hypnotizing the customers? Are they handing out tariff exemptions? Did they switch the complimentary coffee for pre workout and crack? According to car scoops and basic math, this level of sales would have required each of these four Tesla stores to sell thirty cars per hour, twenty four hours per day for three straight days. Now, if you scale the time back to the actual hours when the dealerships were even open, you would have more than one car sold every minute at each of these dealers across that three day period. Insane, As one government official told the Toronto Star quote, Tesla did not sell those cars that weekend. Now, Tesla went on to claim forty three million dollars in rebates, sucking up about half the remaining balance in the rebate fund, leaving other EV dealers holding the bag after they sold vehicles with the rebate priced in expecting to get a refund from the government. According to the Canadian Auto Dealers Association, independent dealers or out of pocket about ten million dollars after Tesla's car rebate application bomb. Now, perhaps people just saw the rebate was ending and decided in spectacular numbers to buy a Tesla before that perk went away. Cutting against that notion, however, is that, like the rest of the world, Canadian Tesla sales have been absolutely tanking, declining some seventy percent month over month. I think a more plausible explanation is that Tesla had sold a bunch of cars with the rebate over a number of months never filed those applications with the government. But that explanation too has some holes. Why the mass surge at just these few dealerships. Also, according to the Toronto Star, the program does require that rebate applications be filed before a car is delivered. Transport Canada did admit, however, that this policy was not being fully enforced, So we'll see what the government investigation turns up ultimately. Now, whether Tesla gained the system far and square, fudged the rules, or outright defrauded it, it's one more reason Canadians are certainly pissed at Musk and Tesla at a time when both the man and the company are facing massive global backlash. Here in the US, Tesla has attracted protests and property damage. Charging stations have been set on fire, cars have been tagged with stickers of Elon sighile, and protests have targeted Tesla dealerships across the country. For Elon personally, there is obviously a lot of state. It's believed that Tesla makes up about a third of Elon's net worth, and it's not like all his other business ventures are going particularly smoothly.

At this point.

At this point.

Italians are pissed at Elon for meddling in their politics. They're threatening to scuttle a significant Starlink contract the tune of one point five billion dollars. Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim is cutting ties with Musk and Starlink after Elon amplified a tweet suggesting that he was tied to drug cartels. Back in Canada, Ontario Premier Doug Ford permanently canceled a one hundred million dollars Starlink contract in response to Trump's trade war and Elon's last two rocket launches both blew up spectacularly, causing commercial flight diversions and airport closures in Florida.

Italians are pissed at Elon for meddling in their politics. They're threatening to scuttle a significant Starlink contract the tune of one point five billion dollars. Mexican billionaire Carlos Slim is cutting ties with Musk and Starlink after Elon amplified a tweet suggesting that he was tied to drug cartels. Back in Canada, Ontario Premier Doug Ford permanently canceled a one hundred million dollars Starlink contract in response to Trump's trade war and Elon's last two rocket launches both blew up spectacularly, causing commercial flight diversions and airport closures in Florida.

But me personally, I wouldn't worry too much.

But me personally, I wouldn't worry too much.

About Elon's bank account since as of today, he effectively has the entire US Treasury backstopping his net worth, and this is exactly the bet that he has placed.

About Elon's bank account since as of today, he effectively has the entire US Treasury backstopping his net worth, and this is exactly the bet that he has placed.

I suspect he.

I suspect he.

Has to know that going full right wing would hurt Tesla, would endanger contracts for Starlink and other of his companies, but the short term loss to him it's.

Has to know that going full right wing would hurt Tesla, would endanger contracts for Starlink and other of his companies, but the short term loss to him it's.

Well worth it.

Well worth it.

If he's able to pull off his coup and continue his power graph, he'll have access to all of our dad at a feed into his AI, along with whatever other government favors he needs to help him prevail in the AI arms race. He'll be able to plow endless taxpayer resources into SpaceX to further enrich himself and achieve his big goal of making it to Mars. As weird and sci fi as it sounds, Mars is really kind of the ultimate dictator play here from Elon, because if he makes it to Mars, his rule there would be fully unchallenged and he could achieve his dream of a fully privatized society run at his personal whim. No more Canadian transportation agencies to shake their fist at him for ev rebates, no more Debbie downer regulators to complain about him turning the Gulf of Mexico into the Gulf of SpaceX debris. No more pesky customers with their choices to buy other vehicles. But even if you think the Mars ideas preposters, which I do, for the record, winning the AI race alone would make Musk an unstoppably powerful force. The idea of ketamine adult megalomaniac Elon Musk having control over the first earthly intelligence to surpass our own is truly terrifying. And there's a decent chance that that is exactly where we are headed. So as much as I'd like to think that Canada investigating Tesla and the stock dropping, the Starlink contracts getting canceled would matter to him, I just don't actually think that's really how he takes. He's all in massive gambles, everything on the line, that's what he's all about right now. He is risking it all for world domination. Who am I to say that that bet won't pay off?

If he's able to pull off his coup and continue his power graph, he'll have access to all of our dad at a feed into his AI, along with whatever other government favors he needs to help him prevail in the AI arms race. He'll be able to plow endless taxpayer resources into SpaceX to further enrich himself and achieve his big goal of making it to Mars. As weird and sci fi as it sounds, Mars is really kind of the ultimate dictator play here from Elon, because if he makes it to Mars, his rule there would be fully unchallenged and he could achieve his dream of a fully privatized society run at his personal whim. No more Canadian transportation agencies to shake their fist at him for ev rebates, no more Debbie downer regulators to complain about him turning the Gulf of Mexico into the Gulf of SpaceX debris. No more pesky customers with their choices to buy other vehicles. But even if you think the Mars ideas preposters, which I do, for the record, winning the AI race alone would make Musk an unstoppably powerful force. The idea of ketamine adult megalomaniac Elon Musk having control over the first earthly intelligence to surpass our own is truly terrifying. And there's a decent chance that that is exactly where we are headed. So as much as I'd like to think that Canada investigating Tesla and the stock dropping, the Starlink contracts getting canceled would matter to him, I just don't actually think that's really how he takes. He's all in massive gambles, everything on the line, that's what he's all about right now. He is risking it all for world domination. Who am I to say that that bet won't pay off?

And Cyber. I'm curious for your view of weather.

And Cyber. I'm curious for your view of weather.

And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com.

And if you want to hear my reaction to Crystal's monologue, become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot Com.

Joining us now is Bryan Tyler Cohene. He's a YouTuber.

Joining us now is Bryan Tyler Cohene. He's a YouTuber.

He's been had quite a bit of success recently, and we're very happy to have him here on the show.

He's been had quite a bit of success recently, and we're very happy to have him here on the show.

It's good to see Brian. Thanks for joining us.

It's good to see Brian. Thanks for joining us.

Good see you too.

Good see you too.

Thanks for having me Brian.

Thanks for having me Brian.

I am absolutely fascinated by the rise of your channel and of a few others. Not saying you haven't been doing well in the past, but I think you will say it's just been an absolute deluge and a bonanza very recently. And I've been curious, you know why you think that you've had quite a bit of success, as mainstream channels like CNN or MSNBC have had a decline in ratings. What do you think about your rise about Midas, Touch and others really blowing past many of these traditional media companies recently.

I am absolutely fascinated by the rise of your channel and of a few others. Not saying you haven't been doing well in the past, but I think you will say it's just been an absolute deluge and a bonanza very recently. And I've been curious, you know why you think that you've had quite a bit of success, as mainstream channels like CNN or MSNBC have had a decline in ratings. What do you think about your rise about Midas, Touch and others really blowing past many of these traditional media companies recently.

I think it's a testament to how kind of fed up most of this country is with the lack of any stable or long term I don't know, like like value set from legacy media. I mean, we've seen depending on who comes in to helm any of these networks, suddenly there'sies change on a dime, and we see them them either till right, till left, go full full board to the center. But there isn't any any long standing guiding principles at these networks, and I think it kind of betrays that what they stand for is whatever they're told that they stand for, and there's a lot of false equivalencies. There's a lot of both SiZ ism and back in the day when we didn't have any other alternative, that was I mean, that's all we've got, right, But I think now in an era where people can seek out content that's actually guided by some degree of long standing principle, you guys are a testament to exactly that. I think people recognize that we don't have to just settle for media that decides what it is based on who becomes the new president or CEO that week.

I think it's a testament to how kind of fed up most of this country is with the lack of any stable or long term I don't know, like like value set from legacy media. I mean, we've seen depending on who comes in to helm any of these networks, suddenly there'sies change on a dime, and we see them them either till right, till left, go full full board to the center. But there isn't any any long standing guiding principles at these networks, and I think it kind of betrays that what they stand for is whatever they're told that they stand for, and there's a lot of false equivalencies. There's a lot of both SiZ ism and back in the day when we didn't have any other alternative, that was I mean, that's all we've got, right, But I think now in an era where people can seek out content that's actually guided by some degree of long standing principle, you guys are a testament to exactly that. I think people recognize that we don't have to just settle for media that decides what it is based on who becomes the new president or CEO that week.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that one of the things that has been really different with Trump two point zero among the Democratic base is their orientation both towards like MSNBC and CNN and also towards Democratic politicians themselves. I mean back in twenty sixteen, you know, it was nightly appointment viewing to watch Rachel Maddow, Like MSNBC was really sort of like the beating core of heart of the resistance. You know, Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff were leading the charge. There was a sense like, Okay, these guys are our guys. They're fighting for us, they're doing everything they possibly can, and we're all this sort of like unified army going to war against what we see happening here and this time, you know, I mean, you could tell it in the race. You can also tell it in the poll numbers about how Democratic voters are incredibly disenchanted with Democratic leadership in a way that certainly reminds me of the way Republicans felt about Republican leadership during the Tea Party era. Do you think that that's part of what's going on here? And to what do you attribute that level of discontent.

I think that one of the things that has been really different with Trump two point zero among the Democratic base is their orientation both towards like MSNBC and CNN and also towards Democratic politicians themselves. I mean back in twenty sixteen, you know, it was nightly appointment viewing to watch Rachel Maddow, Like MSNBC was really sort of like the beating core of heart of the resistance. You know, Nancy Pelosi and Adam Schiff were leading the charge. There was a sense like, Okay, these guys are our guys. They're fighting for us, they're doing everything they possibly can, and we're all this sort of like unified army going to war against what we see happening here and this time, you know, I mean, you could tell it in the race. You can also tell it in the poll numbers about how Democratic voters are incredibly disenchanted with Democratic leadership in a way that certainly reminds me of the way Republicans felt about Republican leadership during the Tea Party era. Do you think that that's part of what's going on here? And to what do you attribute that level of discontent.

I think that there's two factions right now within the Democratic Party. I think that there is a faction that recognizes, and I would include myself in this faction, recognizes that we desperate, we need to like fight against what we're seeing right now, and then there's another that I think is more focused on loss, on risk aversion, and and so it's it's kind of tearing the party in two sides, because you've got people who say it's like the moderate versus versus progressive wings, right, and so you have people who say, Okay, we need to we need to we need to tack to the left and show some fight and and push back against the worst successes of this administration.

I think that there's two factions right now within the Democratic Party. I think that there is a faction that recognizes, and I would include myself in this faction, recognizes that we desperate, we need to like fight against what we're seeing right now, and then there's another that I think is more focused on loss, on risk aversion, and and so it's it's kind of tearing the party in two sides, because you've got people who say it's like the moderate versus versus progressive wings, right, and so you have people who say, Okay, we need to we need to we need to tack to the left and show some fight and and push back against the worst successes of this administration.

And then you see the.

And then you see the.

More moderate members of the party or of the wing who are saying, like, you know, it was the tacking left that got us into this position in the first place. And clearly America is having a right word shift, and so I think that there's just some some inherent conflict there and and as a result of that, the party seems rudderless, the networks that speak to Democrats kind of seem rudderless, and there's just this this contradictory idea of where to go next.

More moderate members of the party or of the wing who are saying, like, you know, it was the tacking left that got us into this position in the first place. And clearly America is having a right word shift, and so I think that there's just some some inherent conflict there and and as a result of that, the party seems rudderless, the networks that speak to Democrats kind of seem rudderless, and there's just this this contradictory idea of where to go next.

Yeah, Brian, one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to you is I really do think you guys might, as touched in others, are like the beating heart of the Democratic Party right now for the future. And the reason I'm curious, just as as an outside observer, is how do you feel about leadership? For example, like we have this we can put on the screen, the Axios tear sheet guys Democrats privately confronting their Trump speech disruptors and others. They're very focused on decorum. They're more risk averse, as you said, So, how is someone like you a really rising influencer? I think in the Democratic Party with the younger Democratic base, how are you feeling about HACKEM Jeffreys, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and the tact that they've decided to take in the Trump administration.

Yeah, Brian, one of the reasons I really wanted to talk to you is I really do think you guys might, as touched in others, are like the beating heart of the Democratic Party right now for the future. And the reason I'm curious, just as as an outside observer, is how do you feel about leadership? For example, like we have this we can put on the screen, the Axios tear sheet guys Democrats privately confronting their Trump speech disruptors and others. They're very focused on decorum. They're more risk averse, as you said, So, how is someone like you a really rising influencer? I think in the Democratic Party with the younger Democratic base, how are you feeling about HACKEM Jeffreys, Chuck Schumer, Nancy Pelosi and the tact that they've decided to take in the Trump administration.

Now?

Now?

Well, I think what we need to do is figure out how to really optimize in this media environment. And that's something that we haven't been able to do before. I actually went to DC this past week and I spoke to a lot of members of the Democratic Caucus in the House and the Senate, and it was my effort really to try and convince them and persuade them about the importance of kind of embracing social media, recognizing the importance of of getting content creators in moving a lot of our our attention and focus from legacy media, where we've spent so much of our time talking to an audience that has already largely bought in, instead talking to an audience that that is, you know, not only bigger because that's where that's where uh, you know, social media audiences are, but also more persuadable and and look to their to their credit, they were largely on board with all of this stuff, and so I think it's important. I think it's important to to try and shift a lot of the attitudes that have been cemented for a really, really long time in DC. And so that's that's kind of my focus right now is to try and in so far as I have any influence in this party, given what I do online, my focus right now is just trying to get a lot of people on board to change their habits in an institution that is as nimble as a cruise ship.

Well, I think what we need to do is figure out how to really optimize in this media environment. And that's something that we haven't been able to do before. I actually went to DC this past week and I spoke to a lot of members of the Democratic Caucus in the House and the Senate, and it was my effort really to try and convince them and persuade them about the importance of kind of embracing social media, recognizing the importance of of getting content creators in moving a lot of our our attention and focus from legacy media, where we've spent so much of our time talking to an audience that has already largely bought in, instead talking to an audience that that is, you know, not only bigger because that's where that's where uh, you know, social media audiences are, but also more persuadable and and look to their to their credit, they were largely on board with all of this stuff, and so I think it's important. I think it's important to to try and shift a lot of the attitudes that have been cemented for a really, really long time in DC. And so that's that's kind of my focus right now is to try and in so far as I have any influence in this party, given what I do online, my focus right now is just trying to get a lot of people on board to change their habits in an institution that is as nimble as a cruise ship.

Basically well, and as part of that trip, you were able to talk to AOC.

Basically well, and as part of that trip, you were able to talk to AOC.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of what you have to say.

Let's go ahead and take a listen to a little bit of what you have to say.

Listen, if you're representative is not doing a town hall, give me a ring.

Listen, if you're representative is not doing a town hall, give me a ring.

I mean, I don't know if an.

I mean, I don't know if an.

R plus twenty five districts would have me, but I'm always willing to be proven wrong. And I mean, I'll say it right here, right now, if a deep red Republican district wants to have an honest conversation, even if it's with someone they disagree with, I'm willing to do that. You know, I'm willing to meet with Republicans and just you know, be honest about where I stand where they stand. We can explain, you know, and understand each other better. But I definitely think it creates a vacuum. And even if it's not a Democratic member, people can host community town halls. You don't need a member of Congress to host a town hall and just host one without them.

R plus twenty five districts would have me, but I'm always willing to be proven wrong. And I mean, I'll say it right here, right now, if a deep red Republican district wants to have an honest conversation, even if it's with someone they disagree with, I'm willing to do that. You know, I'm willing to meet with Republicans and just you know, be honest about where I stand where they stand. We can explain, you know, and understand each other better. But I definitely think it creates a vacuum. And even if it's not a Democratic member, people can host community town halls. You don't need a member of Congress to host a town hall and just host one without them.

I think that's one of the better ideas that demos have floated. And really it's sort of Bernie Sanders who's led the charge. I'm sure you saw the images from his town all like ten thousand people showing up on a random day in Warren, Michigan. You know, just astonishing level of energy just because he's out there and basically signaling, you know, like we're going to fight and here's something we can actually do. I know, Rokanna said he's going to do town halls. Tim Wallas said he's going to do town halls, AOC saying she's going to do town halls.

I think that's one of the better ideas that demos have floated. And really it's sort of Bernie Sanders who's led the charge. I'm sure you saw the images from his town all like ten thousand people showing up on a random day in Warren, Michigan. You know, just astonishing level of energy just because he's out there and basically signaling, you know, like we're going to fight and here's something we can actually do. I know, Rokanna said he's going to do town halls. Tim Wallas said he's going to do town halls, AOC saying she's going to do town halls.

And it's been kind of interesting.

And it's been kind of interesting.

To me the tactical or ideological valance of this moment, because one of the other big Democratic stars of the moment is Jasmine Crockett, who is not necessarily ideologically the same as Bernie Sanders. But I think there's such a base level excitement about these individuals simply because it feels like they're putting up a fight, and because they do understand the attention economy and how quickly the news moves and how much you have to jump on it right at that moment and not be afraid of stirring the pod and not be afraid of creating some controversy.

To me the tactical or ideological valance of this moment, because one of the other big Democratic stars of the moment is Jasmine Crockett, who is not necessarily ideologically the same as Bernie Sanders. But I think there's such a base level excitement about these individuals simply because it feels like they're putting up a fight, and because they do understand the attention economy and how quickly the news moves and how much you have to jump on it right at that moment and not be afraid of stirring the pod and not be afraid of creating some controversy.

Hundred percent. I mean, that's how this that's how this entire ecosystem works. And I think that you're exactly right in terms of the thing that people want to see is that you are willing to fight. And this doesn't necessarily, to your exact point, have to be like a progressive versus moderate, doesn't have to be you don't have to be a certain political persuasion, you don't have to land somewhere specifically on the ideological spectrum to be able to do this. People just want to see that you are there doing the job that they put you in office to do, and so and so that's why there's a lot of focus on these people who are actually getting themselves out there and showing that they're willing to have some fight. And it doesn't have Look, we're in a position right now where we're in the majority. We don't have to be relitigating Medicare for all today because it's not like any of that stuff is going to happen. But if you're going out there and you're saying, look, I'm here to make sure that your Medicaid is protected, that to make sure that that snap benefits are protected, to make sure that education funding or any healthcare funding, or that veterans have jobs. If I'm putting myself out there showing that I'm willing to actually do the work, people are going to respond to that. It is precisely the unwillingness or inability of anybody in office to actually stick their necks out there and show that they're willing to fight. It is that that same risk aversion that I was talking about before, that people are actually tired of these days and kind of puts you in that camp of doing stuff that's safe and uncontroversial, and like people don't want to see that. We're in a moment where, you know, democracy is at risk, where healthcare is at risk, where so much of of what we hold deer is at risk, and if you're just going to kind of sit back.

Hundred percent. I mean, that's how this that's how this entire ecosystem works. And I think that you're exactly right in terms of the thing that people want to see is that you are willing to fight. And this doesn't necessarily, to your exact point, have to be like a progressive versus moderate, doesn't have to be you don't have to be a certain political persuasion, you don't have to land somewhere specifically on the ideological spectrum to be able to do this. People just want to see that you are there doing the job that they put you in office to do, and so and so that's why there's a lot of focus on these people who are actually getting themselves out there and showing that they're willing to have some fight. And it doesn't have Look, we're in a position right now where we're in the majority. We don't have to be relitigating Medicare for all today because it's not like any of that stuff is going to happen. But if you're going out there and you're saying, look, I'm here to make sure that your Medicaid is protected, that to make sure that that snap benefits are protected, to make sure that education funding or any healthcare funding, or that veterans have jobs. If I'm putting myself out there showing that I'm willing to actually do the work, people are going to respond to that. It is precisely the unwillingness or inability of anybody in office to actually stick their necks out there and show that they're willing to fight. It is that that same risk aversion that I was talking about before, that people are actually tired of these days and kind of puts you in that camp of doing stuff that's safe and uncontroversial, and like people don't want to see that. We're in a moment where, you know, democracy is at risk, where healthcare is at risk, where so much of of what we hold deer is at risk, and if you're just going to kind of sit back.

People are going to recognize that.

People are going to recognize that.

So again, it's not it doesn't have to do with how progressive or how moderate you are. It's just that you're putting yourself out there and that you're showing you're willing to fight.

So again, it's not it doesn't have to do with how progressive or how moderate you are. It's just that you're putting yourself out there and that you're showing you're willing to fight.

Yeah, I want to dig down on that a little bit though.

Yeah, I want to dig down on that a little bit though.

Something I watched during the Tea Party era is that opposition to Obama really became like the unifying force of the Republican Party. But then after Obama was gone, there were huge fights and those litmus tests on policy. You know, those things mattered. You talked there about Medicare for all. So I'm curious at a policy level. You know, I watched some of your channel, and a lot of it is just about Donald Trump. That seems to be the stuff that really is most animating right now. But sooner or later, you know, might actually win an election, you might be in power. So what are the types of things that you think do matter, you know, for a future Democratic leader. Republicans at that time said, you need to figer about you know, you need to be concerned about debt. We need to repeal Obamacare. No matter what you want to say about the Tea Party, they did have some demands. What are some of the demands that you think you have, Brian.

Something I watched during the Tea Party era is that opposition to Obama really became like the unifying force of the Republican Party. But then after Obama was gone, there were huge fights and those litmus tests on policy. You know, those things mattered. You talked there about Medicare for all. So I'm curious at a policy level. You know, I watched some of your channel, and a lot of it is just about Donald Trump. That seems to be the stuff that really is most animating right now. But sooner or later, you know, might actually win an election, you might be in power. So what are the types of things that you think do matter, you know, for a future Democratic leader. Republicans at that time said, you need to figer about you know, you need to be concerned about debt. We need to repeal Obamacare. No matter what you want to say about the Tea Party, they did have some demands. What are some of the demands that you think you have, Brian.

Well, first of all, we should be so lucky to be in a position where we can start litigating the things that matter to Democrats. But hopefully we do get there soon. I mean, look, I'm a progressive. What I would like to see is full board, green new deal. I would like to see Medicare for all, you know, like I would like to see a fifteen dollars minimum wage. I would like to see the Proact get passed so that we can boaster unions in this country. But I view myself as a pragmatic progressive, and I know that that what's going to work in certain places may not necessarily work in other places. So you know, I'm perfectly content to if we're lucky enough to be able to get in a position where we can again litigate this stuff. I would love to be able to have, you know, have these these conversations and have these debates with folks. My focus obviously right now, for as is the same for any Democrat, is just to get in a position where we can actually be able to exercise power. And that's going to take a lot of that's going to take a lot of changes from our strategy right now, because you know, it feels like, well, it feels million miles away at this at this moment. But it also depends on Democrats actually being able to wield, to be willing to wield power once we do get into office. And so often we look, there's a huge difference between what Republicans do with power when they're in office and what Democrats do with power in office. And I think the perfect and apsolation of that is what happens with the parliamentarian. Like for the Democrats, the parliamentarian says no, and we're like, well, that's it. The parliamentarian says no, So I guess, I guess there's no other avenue and we just have to kind of sit down and lick our wounds and that's the end of the fight. Republicans will and literally have just replace the parliamentarian altogether. If they don't get what they want, and that is how they view power, they figure out how they can get there. It's almost like Republicans, if they get told no, they figure out how they can get to yes. If Democrats. If Democrats get told no, they they're perfectly content to accept that, and it almost sometimes feels like they're not even willing to try and get to yes. And so that's what I would like to see if Democrats actually get into power. Notwithstanding what I would like to see on the specific policy front, and again I listed a bunch of things that I would like to see on the policy front right there, but just more broadly, a focus on actually being able to wield and exercise power in the rare instances, rare opportunities where we actually get it.

Well, first of all, we should be so lucky to be in a position where we can start litigating the things that matter to Democrats. But hopefully we do get there soon. I mean, look, I'm a progressive. What I would like to see is full board, green new deal. I would like to see Medicare for all, you know, like I would like to see a fifteen dollars minimum wage. I would like to see the Proact get passed so that we can boaster unions in this country. But I view myself as a pragmatic progressive, and I know that that what's going to work in certain places may not necessarily work in other places. So you know, I'm perfectly content to if we're lucky enough to be able to get in a position where we can again litigate this stuff. I would love to be able to have, you know, have these these conversations and have these debates with folks. My focus obviously right now, for as is the same for any Democrat, is just to get in a position where we can actually be able to exercise power. And that's going to take a lot of that's going to take a lot of changes from our strategy right now, because you know, it feels like, well, it feels million miles away at this at this moment. But it also depends on Democrats actually being able to wield, to be willing to wield power once we do get into office. And so often we look, there's a huge difference between what Republicans do with power when they're in office and what Democrats do with power in office. And I think the perfect and apsolation of that is what happens with the parliamentarian. Like for the Democrats, the parliamentarian says no, and we're like, well, that's it. The parliamentarian says no, So I guess, I guess there's no other avenue and we just have to kind of sit down and lick our wounds and that's the end of the fight. Republicans will and literally have just replace the parliamentarian altogether. If they don't get what they want, and that is how they view power, they figure out how they can get there. It's almost like Republicans, if they get told no, they figure out how they can get to yes. If Democrats. If Democrats get told no, they they're perfectly content to accept that, and it almost sometimes feels like they're not even willing to try and get to yes. And so that's what I would like to see if Democrats actually get into power. Notwithstanding what I would like to see on the specific policy front, and again I listed a bunch of things that I would like to see on the policy front right there, but just more broadly, a focus on actually being able to wield and exercise power in the rare instances, rare opportunities where we actually get it.

I was curious what you made.

I was curious what you made.

I'm sure you saw the Gavin Newsom Charlie Kirk podcast situation. And I'll tell you, like, I'm not a Gavin Newsom fan because I think he's you know, way too corporate and you know, puts donors ahead of progressive values often, but I do respect his political talent. I saw him go on Fox News and really take it to Ron DeSantis. I think a lot of people like that, you know, certainly increased my estimation of him. I think a lot of Democratic base voters felt the same way. And so when I saw he's doing this podcast he was having a few right wing folks on, including Charlie Kirk, I was like, Oh, that's actually really smart because he can fight with him and people are going to freaking love that.

I'm sure you saw the Gavin Newsom Charlie Kirk podcast situation. And I'll tell you, like, I'm not a Gavin Newsom fan because I think he's you know, way too corporate and you know, puts donors ahead of progressive values often, but I do respect his political talent. I saw him go on Fox News and really take it to Ron DeSantis. I think a lot of people like that, you know, certainly increased my estimation of him. I think a lot of Democratic base voters felt the same way. And so when I saw he's doing this podcast he was having a few right wing folks on, including Charlie Kirk, I was like, Oh, that's actually really smart because he can fight with him and people are going to freaking love that.

And then he has him on.

And then he has him on.

He's like, oh my god, Charlie, you're so like influential and my son loves you, and let's talk about some issues where I want to, like, you know, culturally, shift more towards your position and find common ground, et cetera, putting aside like you know, my positions on that issue, and how grotesque I find that to be. I also just found it to be so tone deaf for the political moment, because if he actually, like this man obviously wants to be president, and if you actually want to position yourself in that way, then what you need to be doing is demonstrating that you will show up and debate these people, you will hold them to account, you will demonstrate that you're a fighter. I mean to what do you attribute that total tone deafness about what the Democratic base actually wants to see from a politician like him right now?

He's like, oh my god, Charlie, you're so like influential and my son loves you, and let's talk about some issues where I want to, like, you know, culturally, shift more towards your position and find common ground, et cetera, putting aside like you know, my positions on that issue, and how grotesque I find that to be. I also just found it to be so tone deaf for the political moment, because if he actually, like this man obviously wants to be president, and if you actually want to position yourself in that way, then what you need to be doing is demonstrating that you will show up and debate these people, you will hold them to account, you will demonstrate that you're a fighter. I mean to what do you attribute that total tone deafness about what the Democratic base actually wants to see from a politician like him right now?

Yeah, I think the main thing is he wanted to show himself as being more willing to embrace like the eighty side of that eighty twenty issue. But I think to your exact point, look, the biggest the biggest virtue for someone like Gavin Newsom, and something that obviously I find really attractive about him as a candidate, is that he is willing to get out there and fight. He is willing to go on Fox News and defend his positions, defend his values stand on business, and that's something that's in short supply in the Democratic Party and so it is a great idea to have a podcast where you invite folks from the other side on and actually try and stand up and defend your values. That's something that we desperately need in democratic politics. And so it was disappointing to see that he was so effusive in his praise for Charlie Kirk, because again, his biggest virtue is that he is able to fight, and so when you sacrifice that that then then if you sacrifice your biggest your biggest asset as a candidate. Then then that really does that really does hurt how people I think perceive you. More broadly, this isn't a time right now your your stance on the issues. Notwithstanding, this isn't a time right now to lay down arms and show that you're willing to just fully, fully embrace not only folks on the right, but just bad faith folks on the right, people who are doing this as solely political actors. And so, you know, I would I know that he's gonna do more episodes in this series. I think that the reaction to this, this might be exactly what he was looking for, might be looking for some some praise, some pets from right wingers, and even even if it's at the risk of, you know, pissing off some Democrats, so be it. But I would like to see him actually stand up and fight for the things that he believes in, because that's really that's really where he's derived so much of his popularity and strength prior to doing this.