Joining us now is Alex Eisenstadt. He is a reporter at Axios, but more importantly for today, he is the author of a new book, Revenge, the inside story of Trump's return to Power. Alex one of the best campaign reporters out there. I'm excited to talk to him. Glad to see you, sir.

Joining us now is Alex Eisenstadt. He is a reporter at Axios, but more importantly for today, he is the author of a new book, Revenge, the inside story of Trump's return to Power. Alex one of the best campaign reporters out there. I'm excited to talk to him. Glad to see you, sir.

Thanks guys, thanks for having me.

Thanks guys, thanks for having me.

Absolutely all right, So the book is out. There's been some pretty jaw dropping stuff that has come out. One of them an allegation that a Fox News fed some questions to Trump before a town hall. But broadly, Alex, I've followed you for many years. You've always had a lot of inside scoops. So, without giving away too much so people will still buy the book, just tell us the broad narrative that you wanted to capture in this book.

Absolutely all right, So the book is out. There's been some pretty jaw dropping stuff that has come out. One of them an allegation that a Fox News fed some questions to Trump before a town hall. But broadly, Alex, I've followed you for many years. You've always had a lot of inside scoops. So, without giving away too much so people will still buy the book, just tell us the broad narrative that you wanted to capture in this book.

So I started covering. I started writing this book in early twenty twenty three, and I wanted to just create a TikTok, behind the scenes account of what happened during Trump's comeback campaign. So I talked to as many people on Trump's inner circle as I could, and the idea was to create a fly on the wall narrative. And I didn't know none of us knew what would happen in this campaign when it first began, but we all knew it was gonna be dramatic. We all knew it was going to be interesting, and so my goal was to really capture that narrative. And it turned out to be just as dramatic and just as interesting as we all thought, if not more so.

So I started covering. I started writing this book in early twenty twenty three, and I wanted to just create a TikTok, behind the scenes account of what happened during Trump's comeback campaign. So I talked to as many people on Trump's inner circle as I could, and the idea was to create a fly on the wall narrative. And I didn't know none of us knew what would happen in this campaign when it first began, but we all knew it was gonna be dramatic. We all knew it was going to be interesting, and so my goal was to really capture that narrative. And it turned out to be just as dramatic and just as interesting as we all thought, if not more so.

So. Two of the sort of most pivotal moments, it seemed from the outside, were the Biden switch through and then obviously the assassination attempt did from within Trump world. Were those the two moments that seemed the most pivotable pivotal or were there others that you would add into that mixed mix? What was the vibe like in each of those moments.

So. Two of the sort of most pivotal moments, it seemed from the outside, were the Biden switch through and then obviously the assassination attempt did from within Trump world. Were those the two moments that seemed the most pivotable pivotal or were there others that you would add into that mixed mix? What was the vibe like in each of those moments.

I think that's right. I think those were definitely two of the most pivotal moments. And you look at Butler, and one of the things that I talked about in this book was that there were actually a lot of There were a lot of scares, There were a lot of threats on Trump's life. One of the things I talked a lot about after the Butler shooting was a ran and a rand role in how it was threatening him. The extraordinary steps that the Trump campaign had to take in order to evade threats from Ran, including using a secret putting Trump on a secret flight, putting him on a flight other than Trump forced one, and then obviously the switcheroo. And one of the interesting things about the switcheroo was that Trump, going into his first debate with Biden, was actually afraid that if he hit Biden too hard that Biden would drop out of the race. Foresaw the problem. He sort of foresaw the possibility that Biden could end up getting out of the race after the debate, which of course is what happened.

I think that's right. I think those were definitely two of the most pivotal moments. And you look at Butler, and one of the things that I talked about in this book was that there were actually a lot of There were a lot of scares, There were a lot of threats on Trump's life. One of the things I talked a lot about after the Butler shooting was a ran and a rand role in how it was threatening him. The extraordinary steps that the Trump campaign had to take in order to evade threats from Ran, including using a secret putting Trump on a secret flight, putting him on a flight other than Trump forced one, and then obviously the switcheroo. And one of the interesting things about the switcheroo was that Trump, going into his first debate with Biden, was actually afraid that if he hit Biden too hard that Biden would drop out of the race. Foresaw the problem. He sort of foresaw the possibility that Biden could end up getting out of the race after the debate, which of course is what happened.

So, yeah, Alex take us in those days. What was the thinking inside the campaign? Were they ever afraid of Kamala Harris? Were they very confident that they were going to win the whole time? What was their internal strategy during the switch?

So, yeah, Alex take us in those days. What was the thinking inside the campaign? Were they ever afraid of Kamala Harris? Were they very confident that they were going to win the whole time? What was their internal strategy during the switch?

So right after the switch that month, after Biden got out and Harris got in, that was probably the bumpiest for the Trump campaign. Trump had just survived this assassination attempt. He was very understandably, very jarred, very rattled from it. He called a friend the day after the shooting and he said that if the bullet had come within a hair closer, his brain would have exploded like a watermelon on live television. He was very afraid after that the shooting understandably snow for his life. He wondered a lot about staging for events, and then he was rattled about Biden getting out of the race and having this new opponent. And sometimes this manifested itself in Trump going off script, like he did at the National Association of Black Journalists meetings, such as when he went after Brian Camp in Georgia. There was a month there where Trump was really was really off script. For the first time he had run this very discipline campaign, and for the first time, things didn't look good for him in that month. But then afterwards, when you got out of July, when you got out of August, Trump found his footing again and he was able to defeat Kamala Harris. The final few weeks the race, Trump was concerned. He definitely had some jitters, but things definitely turned around from him from there.

So right after the switch that month, after Biden got out and Harris got in, that was probably the bumpiest for the Trump campaign. Trump had just survived this assassination attempt. He was very understandably, very jarred, very rattled from it. He called a friend the day after the shooting and he said that if the bullet had come within a hair closer, his brain would have exploded like a watermelon on live television. He was very afraid after that the shooting understandably snow for his life. He wondered a lot about staging for events, and then he was rattled about Biden getting out of the race and having this new opponent. And sometimes this manifested itself in Trump going off script, like he did at the National Association of Black Journalists meetings, such as when he went after Brian Camp in Georgia. There was a month there where Trump was really was really off script. For the first time he had run this very discipline campaign, and for the first time, things didn't look good for him in that month. But then afterwards, when you got out of July, when you got out of August, Trump found his footing again and he was able to defeat Kamala Harris. The final few weeks the race, Trump was concerned. He definitely had some jitters, but things definitely turned around from him from there.

Interesting talk a little bit about the Elon Musk relationship, which has come to be like the most central dynamic of Trump two point zero, which is I think not something that many people truly expected, although if you just look at the sheer amount of dollars that he put into the race, perhaps it should have been better anticipated. How did that romance begin? Because he had not only previously supported Ron de Santis, I mean, and Obama were buddies. Obama's administration gave him some critical loans to Tesla at an important time in his career. He'd previously been war inclined towards the Democratic Party. So what built that relationship? And then, as a corollary, were you surprised to see Elon be so central, hog so much attention and for Trump to be like pretty subservient to him.

Interesting talk a little bit about the Elon Musk relationship, which has come to be like the most central dynamic of Trump two point zero, which is I think not something that many people truly expected, although if you just look at the sheer amount of dollars that he put into the race, perhaps it should have been better anticipated. How did that romance begin? Because he had not only previously supported Ron de Santis, I mean, and Obama were buddies. Obama's administration gave him some critical loans to Tesla at an important time in his career. He'd previously been war inclined towards the Democratic Party. So what built that relationship? And then, as a corollary, were you surprised to see Elon be so central, hog so much attention and for Trump to be like pretty subservient to him.

It was one of those gradual things that Elon Trump relationship. One of the interesting things I talked about this book is that Elon actually played a role in getting jd. Vance picked for vice president, And that was one of the first big roles that Elon played on the race. And one of the things that Elon told Trump right after the assassination attempting Butler, which was right before jd Vance's pick, was that if you pick He told Trump that if you pick someone who hails from the establishment quote unquote deep state part of the Republican Party, that will give the deep state or the establishing more incentive to try to kill you again. And that so Elon Musk was one of the last people to give Trump advice before he picked JD. Vance, and he waited for JD Vance.

It was one of those gradual things that Elon Trump relationship. One of the interesting things I talked about this book is that Elon actually played a role in getting jd. Vance picked for vice president, And that was one of the first big roles that Elon played on the race. And one of the things that Elon told Trump right after the assassination attempting Butler, which was right before jd Vance's pick, was that if you pick He told Trump that if you pick someone who hails from the establishment quote unquote deep state part of the Republican Party, that will give the deep state or the establishing more incentive to try to kill you again. And that so Elon Musk was one of the last people to give Trump advice before he picked JD. Vance, and he waited for JD Vance.

Let me just real quick on that before you finish your answer, because that's very interesting nugget that I didn't realize. What do you think it was that made Elon want jd to be on the ticket. I understand how he pitched it to Trump because on the surface level, they actually seem to have some you know, ideological distinctions. JD Vance has, you know, pitched himself more in the Trumpian sort of like populist national slane. Elon is more of this like you know, I would say tech feudalists like Javier Malay and Arco capitalist type. So what was it that Why was he's so interested in having Jadvance on the ticket?

Let me just real quick on that before you finish your answer, because that's very interesting nugget that I didn't realize. What do you think it was that made Elon want jd to be on the ticket. I understand how he pitched it to Trump because on the surface level, they actually seem to have some you know, ideological distinctions. JD Vance has, you know, pitched himself more in the Trumpian sort of like populist national slane. Elon is more of this like you know, I would say tech feudalists like Javier Malay and Arco capitalist type. So what was it that Why was he's so interested in having Jadvance on the ticket?

The bottom line is that they both hail from the same kind of tech wing of the party. And Elon Musk is really close to a guy named David Sachs, who I'm sure a lot of your viewers and listeners will know. He's the guy he has He actually has his own podcast it's called all In, and he's a big player in Silicon Valley. Jd Vance is also close to David Sacks, as is Elon Musk, and so that was a really big connector in this, and then there were just other tech players and that sort of served as a connection point between the two of them.

The bottom line is that they both hail from the same kind of tech wing of the party. And Elon Musk is really close to a guy named David Sachs, who I'm sure a lot of your viewers and listeners will know. He's the guy he has He actually has his own podcast it's called all In, and he's a big player in Silicon Valley. Jd Vance is also close to David Sacks, as is Elon Musk, and so that was a really big connector in this, and then there were just other tech players and that sort of served as a connection point between the two of them.

Interesting, Alex, you know we're continuing like in this vein because you have also covered campaign finance really well, what do you make of the influence of Elon's money in the campaign? How determinive, how determinative was it actually, as somebody who's covered this for many.

Interesting, Alex, you know we're continuing like in this vein because you have also covered campaign finance really well, what do you make of the influence of Elon's money in the campaign? How determinive, how determinative was it actually, as somebody who's covered this for many.

Years, Yeah, I mean he gave him a two hundred He gave Trump essentially a two hundred and fifty million dollars infusion, and that's that's really important. And the role he played was important because Trump Elon Musk's operation was focused on ground game and getting out the vote, not so much on TV ads, but mostly on ground game and getting out the vote. And so when Elon first started doing this, when his super pack really first kicked up its operations, there were a lot of questions about the strength of Trump's ground game door knocking effort, and so Elon Musk put in a lot of money to help solve that problem. And that was really important because there were a lot of concerns in Trump's campaign and in the broader Republican world that Democrats Joe Bien and Kambla Harris were just simply more organized in terms of getting out the vote.

Years, Yeah, I mean he gave him a two hundred He gave Trump essentially a two hundred and fifty million dollars infusion, and that's that's really important. And the role he played was important because Trump Elon Musk's operation was focused on ground game and getting out the vote, not so much on TV ads, but mostly on ground game and getting out the vote. And so when Elon first started doing this, when his super pack really first kicked up its operations, there were a lot of questions about the strength of Trump's ground game door knocking effort, and so Elon Musk put in a lot of money to help solve that problem. And that was really important because there were a lot of concerns in Trump's campaign and in the broader Republican world that Democrats Joe Bien and Kambla Harris were just simply more organized in terms of getting out the vote.

Yes, do you think that Trump thinks Elon is the reason he won?

Yes, do you think that Trump thinks Elon is the reason he won?

I don't think so. I think Trump thinks he's the reason he won. Trump always sees himself as being the primary player, the main driver of things, and so he definitely is appreciative of Elon Musk and what he did, but he doesn't he sees himself as the guy who won this race for one hundred percent sure.

I don't think so. I think Trump thinks he's the reason he won. Trump always sees himself as being the primary player, the main driver of things, and so he definitely is appreciative of Elon Musk and what he did, but he doesn't he sees himself as the guy who won this race for one hundred percent sure.

And so why do you think he has been had such a different relationship with Elon than he has with anyone else where? You know, I mean, Elon's there holding court in the Oval office and T shirt and a hat. Elon is taking control. Elon is, you know, putting out the messaging. Elon's creating political problems for Trump, and he's never really checked. I mean, we did have the secret cabinet meeting where apparently so that Okay, these guys are in charge, but it has been much more deferential than we've ever seen Trump be towards anyone else, like to what do you ascribe that?

And so why do you think he has been had such a different relationship with Elon than he has with anyone else where? You know, I mean, Elon's there holding court in the Oval office and T shirt and a hat. Elon is taking control. Elon is, you know, putting out the messaging. Elon's creating political problems for Trump, and he's never really checked. I mean, we did have the secret cabinet meeting where apparently so that Okay, these guys are in charge, but it has been much more deferential than we've ever seen Trump be towards anyone else, like to what do you ascribe that?

Well, look, Elon plays by a different set of rules. You're one hundred percent right. He is more deferential to Elon than he would be to really any other cabinet member or any other staffer that Trump has ever had his two terms in the White House. But look, Elon's a different kind of player. He's worth what several hundred billion dollars at this point, And when you have that kind of money, it can let it gives you enormous amount of power. It gives you the ability to go do whatever you want. He can go set up a super pack, he could go back to his businesses. And so Trump has a lot less leverage over Elon Musk than he does a typical cabinet member. Elon's wealth gives him an enormous amount of power, a nom enormous amount of sway over politics, and so Trump's gotta be a little careful in terms of how he handles the Elon Musk interesting.

Well, look, Elon plays by a different set of rules. You're one hundred percent right. He is more deferential to Elon than he would be to really any other cabinet member or any other staffer that Trump has ever had his two terms in the White House. But look, Elon's a different kind of player. He's worth what several hundred billion dollars at this point, And when you have that kind of money, it can let it gives you enormous amount of power. It gives you the ability to go do whatever you want. He can go set up a super pack, he could go back to his businesses. And so Trump has a lot less leverage over Elon Musk than he does a typical cabinet member. Elon's wealth gives him an enormous amount of power, a nom enormous amount of sway over politics, and so Trump's gotta be a little careful in terms of how he handles the Elon Musk interesting.

All right, Well, I trust you, Alex, and everyone should go on buy the book. We appreciate joining.

All right, Well, I trust you, Alex, and everyone should go on buy the book. We appreciate joining.

Us man, yeah, thank you so much.

Us man, yeah, thank you so much.

Thanks for having me. It's our pleasure.

Thanks for having me. It's our pleasure.