Get a team. Welcome back to the show. This is Roll with the Punches podcast and I'm your host, Tip Cook, and I have got a fellow female boxer chatting with me today. I am excited been waiting to have this chat with Taylor. I've been giving her a nudge for ages now. Taylor and I first met way back when we were both in the Abitas years and like a decade ago. I reckon about a decade ago, and I've been watching her progress.

Get a team. Welcome back to the show. This is Roll with the Punches podcast and I'm your host, Tip Cook, and I have got a fellow female boxer chatting with me today. I am excited been waiting to have this chat with Taylor. I've been giving her a nudge for ages now. Taylor and I first met way back when we were both in the Abitas years and like a decade ago. I reckon about a decade ago, and I've been watching her progress.

She is killing it.

She is killing it.

She is winning belts left right, center and climbing the ranks, and she's one to be watched. So we're talking about boxing, we're talking about life, about motherhood, about a whole range of stuff. But first, before I just let you listen to the conversation, I just want to highlight that the first thing I asked Taylor before we started rolling was for the correct pronunciation of her last name, to make sure that if I said Jensen that that was correct, and she said, oh, it's actually it's Gensen. So as you here, I fuck it up at the start and that's all fine. But when we get to the end, and I asked Taylor where she would like to direct people to follow her. She pronounced her own last name, Jensen, just like I was going to in the first place. So I'm confused. I don't know what's.

She is winning belts left right, center and climbing the ranks, and she's one to be watched. So we're talking about boxing, we're talking about life, about motherhood, about a whole range of stuff. But first, before I just let you listen to the conversation, I just want to highlight that the first thing I asked Taylor before we started rolling was for the correct pronunciation of her last name, to make sure that if I said Jensen that that was correct, and she said, oh, it's actually it's Gensen. So as you here, I fuck it up at the start and that's all fine. But when we get to the end, and I asked Taylor where she would like to direct people to follow her. She pronounced her own last name, Jensen, just like I was going to in the first place. So I'm confused. I don't know what's.

Right or wrong.

Right or wrong.

Taylor, what are you doing to me? Anyway, this is a great chat. I hope you enjoy it. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Taylor Jet fucks on Nellick Taylor Ginson or later sooner. I did my best. I asked you three seconds ago, and then I immediately get it wrong. Welcome to the show.

Taylor, what are you doing to me? Anyway, this is a great chat. I hope you enjoy it. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Taylor Jet fucks on Nellick Taylor Ginson or later sooner. I did my best. I asked you three seconds ago, and then I immediately get it wrong. Welcome to the show.

Sorry, it's great to be here. I feel that's been of a privilege. You've had some pretty big names on here, so just little old me joining some doctors and entrepreneurs and some pretty impressive people.

Sorry, it's great to be here. I feel that's been of a privilege. You've had some pretty big names on here, so just little old me joining some doctors and entrepreneurs and some pretty impressive people.

Had some cool ones this week you're You're in a class and you are one of the cool ones. Like, don't understate yourself, You're this is a really exciting conversation for me on a lot of front. You've got a lot of cool stuff going on. I've watched your your journey and your growth and the things that you do and talk about and share for a long time and I love it. So you this week are in the middle of I just you know, there's moments where I just sit in awe of the people I get to hang with. I've just gone off the call with doctor Stacy Sims, who I've wanted to talk.

Had some cool ones this week you're You're in a class and you are one of the cool ones. Like, don't understate yourself, You're this is a really exciting conversation for me on a lot of front. You've got a lot of cool stuff going on. I've watched your your journey and your growth and the things that you do and talk about and share for a long time and I love it. So you this week are in the middle of I just you know, there's moments where I just sit in awe of the people I get to hang with. I've just gone off the call with doctor Stacy Sims, who I've wanted to talk.

That's someone that I Oh my god, he's serious.

That's someone that I Oh my god, he's serious.

Yeah. To be in the same realm of doctor Stacy Simms one of the most incredible things I've ever heard, mate, because you just spoke to her and now you're speaking to me, right.

Yeah. To be in the same realm of doctor Stacy Simms one of the most incredible things I've ever heard, mate, because you just spoke to her and now you're speaking to me, right.

And she got the last thing she said was off. She's like, if you have any questions, you got my email, now just just picking them through.

And she got the last thing she said was off. She's like, if you have any questions, you got my email, now just just picking them through.

I've got ten thousand questions for us, so I'll shoot them to you and then you can just pass.

I've got ten thousand questions for us, so I'll shoot them to you and then you can just pass.

Them on for me.

Them on for me.

Absolutely hopefully. Some of the questions I asked her, it cleared up a lot of stuff for me, a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff that I've been trying to figure out and grappling with and bouncing around. So hopefully people like myself and yourself a female athlete.

Absolutely hopefully. Some of the questions I asked her, it cleared up a lot of stuff for me, a lot, a lot, a lot of stuff that I've been trying to figure out and grappling with and bouncing around. So hopefully people like myself and yourself a female athlete.

Were working with female infantry soldiers too, Like so much comes up, and I was like, I resort to a lot of stop to Stacy Sims's stuff to be able to put them onto her even just some of the basic stuff like women are not small men, just even that, just putting them onto that and getting them to do their own research into that.

Were working with female infantry soldiers too, Like so much comes up, and I was like, I resort to a lot of stop to Stacy Sims's stuff to be able to put them onto her even just some of the basic stuff like women are not small men, just even that, just putting them onto that and getting them to do their own research into that.

People have no idea, like, it's just incredible.

People have no idea, like, it's just incredible.

So yeah, yeah, and it's it's hard. It's hard because there's so much content and so much that said, and I wanted to talk to her because I previously had Dr Mindy Pel's on about female fasting and that episode as the most viral episode I've had on the show, Like it went nuts and I loved it. I loved it at the time, but I've just thrown fasting in the can this year. I've gone, this is not for me. And those two just did a podcast on Mindy's show.

So yeah, yeah, and it's it's hard. It's hard because there's so much content and so much that said, and I wanted to talk to her because I previously had Dr Mindy Pel's on about female fasting and that episode as the most viral episode I've had on the show, Like it went nuts and I loved it. I loved it at the time, but I've just thrown fasting in the can this year. I've gone, this is not for me. And those two just did a podcast on Mindy's show.

I'm going to have to listen to that because that that'll be interesting.

I'm going to have to listen to that because that that'll be interesting.

Yeah, it was interesting, and Bindy was like, we're saying, you know, people have asked both of us to get together and have this conversation. Like I got Stacy because I said, I've I needed to clean, needed to clear up all this stuff. Yeah, like I've had doctor Bindy on and and I'm just I've put all under the microscap and I just need, I need you come and help me clean. But yeah, so she frames it like they're saying the same thing. But but again I go, no, you're not, you're not. And this is what confuses people. You're saying it. People need clear direction. Yeah, category to like, how many women do you think think of themselves as an active female or an athlete? Not many, Probably.

Yeah, it was interesting, and Bindy was like, we're saying, you know, people have asked both of us to get together and have this conversation. Like I got Stacy because I said, I've I needed to clean, needed to clear up all this stuff. Yeah, like I've had doctor Bindy on and and I'm just I've put all under the microscap and I just need, I need you come and help me clean. But yeah, so she frames it like they're saying the same thing. But but again I go, no, you're not, you're not. And this is what confuses people. You're saying it. People need clear direction. Yeah, category to like, how many women do you think think of themselves as an active female or an athlete? Not many, Probably.

Not many at all.

Not many at all.

No, No, And actually I don't even see myself as an athlete. And technically I'm a professional athlete like I'm because I work full time. I'm like, I'm a semi pro athlete, but I'm not really an athlete, like I'm I a combat athlete.

No, No, And actually I don't even see myself as an athlete. And technically I'm a professional athlete like I'm because I work full time. I'm like, I'm a semi pro athlete, but I'm not really an athlete, like I'm I a combat athlete.

I don't know.

I don't know.

So actually hard to yeah, to pinpoint that.

So actually hard to yeah, to pinpoint that.

Yeah, I went through the same thing of going, we'll hang on if I'm not competing if I'm not currently competing in boxing monsters. I remember googling it. It was a time when I was really demotivated and really struggling with my training, and I googled that term and went the actual term of an athlete has nothing to do with competition. It's it's someone who has a competency in physical training and does it regularly. It's like that's an athlete, and an athlete is basically anyone who ever deliverately exercises, Yeah, Vigo, or has an active job.

Yeah, I went through the same thing of going, we'll hang on if I'm not competing if I'm not currently competing in boxing monsters. I remember googling it. It was a time when I was really demotivated and really struggling with my training, and I googled that term and went the actual term of an athlete has nothing to do with competition. It's it's someone who has a competency in physical training and does it regularly. It's like that's an athlete, and an athlete is basically anyone who ever deliverately exercises, Yeah, Vigo, or has an active job.

Yeah yep, so Viga.

Yeah yep, so Viga.

Anyway, do you give us a little this feel, give us an introduction on I mean, there's a lot of facets today at so many how do you introduce yourself?

Anyway, do you give us a little this feel, give us an introduction on I mean, there's a lot of facets today at so many how do you introduce yourself?

To be honest, I've not really had to introduce myself too much, but I'm in these challenge defenci Force. I'm a physical training instructor, so I work with combat athletes infantry in particular, so males and females dabble in a bit of boxing.

To be honest, I've not really had to introduce myself too much, but I'm in these challenge defenci Force. I'm a physical training instructor, so I work with combat athletes infantry in particular, so males and females dabble in a bit of boxing.

I say that.

I say that.

No, I'm a semi professional athlete when it comes to boxing as well. I do it because I love it. And yeah, so I've I've got an Oceania title at the moment won the Australian title this year as well, been doubling in that for fourteen years. So I've just yared and you know what, I just yeah, just loving life. That's pretty much my introduction, to be honest.

No, I'm a semi professional athlete when it comes to boxing as well. I do it because I love it. And yeah, so I've I've got an Oceania title at the moment won the Australian title this year as well, been doubling in that for fourteen years. So I've just yared and you know what, I just yeah, just loving life. That's pretty much my introduction, to be honest.

I don't know how I feel about in the inn air quote and not not against you, even against it, like semi professional athlete. And it's it's hard, right because especially in a sport like boxing, but especially being female, because we're getting to where we're moving the needle, but very slowly.

I don't know how I feel about in the inn air quote and not not against you, even against it, like semi professional athlete. And it's it's hard, right because especially in a sport like boxing, but especially being female, because we're getting to where we're moving the needle, but very slowly.

Yeah, it's common, yeah.

Yeah, it's common, yeah.

To think that an identity or a label for that is determined by when we're we're actually going to get a fair slice of the pie. Like it's yeah, you know, because if if you were able to, if when when the sport's at a point where women are actually paid as much as men in in prize money and in consorship and everything in support that you can support yourself and don't need to work a full time job outside of it, then you will quite comfortably say I'm an athlete and you'll have actually not changed a single thing.

To think that an identity or a label for that is determined by when we're we're actually going to get a fair slice of the pie. Like it's yeah, you know, because if if you were able to, if when when the sport's at a point where women are actually paid as much as men in in prize money and in consorship and everything in support that you can support yourself and don't need to work a full time job outside of it, then you will quite comfortably say I'm an athlete and you'll have actually not changed a single thing.

Probably, yeah, one hundred percent.

Probably, yeah, one hundred percent.

I mean I'll probably still I'd still work because I love what I do, but I probably cut that down a bit, prob cut it down to like three days a week, and I'd be more of a pro athlete on that on that level. But Australia just has to get behind there. They're athletes, like female athletes in particular. Like there's so many people out there that want to either want to get behind us and don't know who we are, or they just don't know how to. I mean when you look at Europe getting behind their athletes. Katie Taylor sits number one in the in the WBA, she's multi world champion, but the whole kind of world knows who she is. I sit number ten and I'm lucky if anyone knows my name. So I mean to be able to get to number one, we just need that push. We need Australia to get behind us. And there's so many awesome female I'm just gonna speak for boxing, but boxing semi professional athletes out there that just need people to follow us and give us that bit of a bit of a push.

I mean I'll probably still I'd still work because I love what I do, but I probably cut that down a bit, prob cut it down to like three days a week, and I'd be more of a pro athlete on that on that level. But Australia just has to get behind there. They're athletes, like female athletes in particular. Like there's so many people out there that want to either want to get behind us and don't know who we are, or they just don't know how to. I mean when you look at Europe getting behind their athletes. Katie Taylor sits number one in the in the WBA, she's multi world champion, but the whole kind of world knows who she is. I sit number ten and I'm lucky if anyone knows my name. So I mean to be able to get to number one, we just need that push. We need Australia to get behind us. And there's so many awesome female I'm just gonna speak for boxing, but boxing semi professional athletes out there that just need people to follow us and give us that bit of a bit of a push.

So yeah, so come on, everyone who's going to get and sponsor our next fight?

So yeah, so come on, everyone who's going to get and sponsor our next fight?

Come hey, goo's who's out there get behind me?

Come hey, goo's who's out there get behind me?

Just even just a social media push, like the people that get those big fights on sort of limit cards and stuff like that. They're not necessarily the best athletes. They've been the top percentage of the best athletes. But I can tell you now, I've seen girls get in there that have absolutely no name.

Just even just a social media push, like the people that get those big fights on sort of limit cards and stuff like that. They're not necessarily the best athletes. They've been the top percentage of the best athletes. But I can tell you now, I've seen girls get in there that have absolutely no name.

For themselves and flog those athletes.

For themselves and flog those athletes.

But it's because they have that ten twenty thirty, fifty plus thousand followers that they actually get on those shows. So it's more about a social media following or just a following in general than the fact that you can in box. So yeah, unfortunately, that's that professional boxing because unless you are getting people to watch you and follow you and the promoters are making money, you're not going to get on those shows.

But it's because they have that ten twenty thirty, fifty plus thousand followers that they actually get on those shows. So it's more about a social media following or just a following in general than the fact that you can in box. So yeah, unfortunately, that's that professional boxing because unless you are getting people to watch you and follow you and the promoters are making money, you're not going to get on those shows.

So it's part of my gripe with the sport. It's a frustrating one.

So it's part of my gripe with the sport. It's a frustrating one.

It's an extremely frustrating sport, but I love it and I wouldn't be doing anything else.

It's an extremely frustrating sport, but I love it and I wouldn't be doing anything else.

So this is the thing. I think. It's also a very grounding aspect of the sport because I mean, in twenty ninety, before the pandemic, I had I had my first professional fight lined up and I've only ever fought amateur, but we had one lined up and the opponent fell through. But it was years later. It was like when someone was having a conversation about a professional fight and getting paid, and I was.

So this is the thing. I think. It's also a very grounding aspect of the sport because I mean, in twenty ninety, before the pandemic, I had I had my first professional fight lined up and I've only ever fought amateur, but we had one lined up and the opponent fell through. But it was years later. It was like when someone was having a conversation about a professional fight and getting paid, and I was.

Like, oh, you got paid.

Like, oh, you got paid.

I guess.

I guess.

I guess I would have. I guess if I had had that fight, I would have got paid. But I didn't even the thought any dollars even going to be associated with that fight at all was just not in my mind.

I guess I would have. I guess if I had had that fight, I would have got paid. But I didn't even the thought any dollars even going to be associated with that fight at all was just not in my mind.

Yeap. Yeah.

Yeap. Yeah.

Well, the first four round professional fight that I had, just a local fight, I got handed an envelope at the end of it and I looked in it and I'm like, oh, there's money. Oh that's right, I'm a professional athlete. I was like, I had yet no concept that I was going to get paid. I didn't really sign a contract or anything, but there's an amount of money that you have to get paid, kind of per round, unless you sign a contract to say that you're not going to take any money financial incentive, which I have done in the past.

Well, the first four round professional fight that I had, just a local fight, I got handed an envelope at the end of it and I looked in it and I'm like, oh, there's money. Oh that's right, I'm a professional athlete. I was like, I had yet no concept that I was going to get paid. I didn't really sign a contract or anything, but there's an amount of money that you have to get paid, kind of per round, unless you sign a contract to say that you're not going to take any money financial incentive, which I have done in the past.

I've had to do that.

I've had to do that.

But yeah, I got I got paid, and I was like, oh, this is awesome, this is really cool. Like I've done this for fourteen years not got a cent, and now I've got this little you know, little paycheck here, some money that's going to go back into my training.

But yeah, I got I got paid, and I was like, oh, this is awesome, this is really cool. Like I've done this for fourteen years not got a cent, and now I've got this little you know, little paycheck here, some money that's going to go back into my training.

So yeah, I love very cool.

So yeah, I love very cool.

What got you into boxing? I met you back in the amateur ranks years ago. When did you start? Why did you start? How did you start?

What got you into boxing? I met you back in the amateur ranks years ago. When did you start? Why did you start? How did you start?

Oh? Geez, in depth question, vulnerable question, But I'd say fourteen years ago.

Oh? Geez, in depth question, vulnerable question, But I'd say fourteen years ago.

I just was going through some mental health struggles.

I just was going through some mental health struggles.

So I'd been in probably some sort of abusive stuff, had a few things happen, like I've had some stalking going on and some sexual harassment and stuff like that, and I was in a really horrible place mentally. I've had a lot of anxiety, was having panic attacks and things like that. And one of my mates that i'd actually spoken to some things about, she said to me, hey, like and she's funny because I've actually recently been diagnosed with ADHD but she also had ADHD and I didn't know that, but yeah, yeah, but yeah, she just said to me, He's like, hey, you know, like I do boxing, and she's trained every day of her life for like the last forty years.

So I'd been in probably some sort of abusive stuff, had a few things happen, like I've had some stalking going on and some sexual harassment and stuff like that, and I was in a really horrible place mentally. I've had a lot of anxiety, was having panic attacks and things like that. And one of my mates that i'd actually spoken to some things about, she said to me, hey, like and she's funny because I've actually recently been diagnosed with ADHD but she also had ADHD and I didn't know that, but yeah, yeah, but yeah, she just said to me, He's like, hey, you know, like I do boxing, and she's trained every day of her life for like the last forty years.

This woman is phenomenal.

This woman is phenomenal.

She said, I do some boxing, come down to the gym, come in and just hit some with me. You know, it's going to help you release some of that tension or you know, some of that built up anger that you have. And yeah, I went down to the gym, had a panic attack of the car before I went in, got out the motivations to actually walk through the doors, and after doing that, I walked out and I said, that was like the most incredible thing I've ever experienced. I didn't actually think about anything else other than the thing that I was doing at the time, and that was something that I hadn't experienced playing any other sport or doing anything else. And then yeah, three months after that, I had my first fight. So yeah, it's been a journey.

She said, I do some boxing, come down to the gym, come in and just hit some with me. You know, it's going to help you release some of that tension or you know, some of that built up anger that you have. And yeah, I went down to the gym, had a panic attack of the car before I went in, got out the motivations to actually walk through the doors, and after doing that, I walked out and I said, that was like the most incredible thing I've ever experienced. I didn't actually think about anything else other than the thing that I was doing at the time, and that was something that I hadn't experienced playing any other sport or doing anything else. And then yeah, three months after that, I had my first fight. So yeah, it's been a journey.

Yeah, oh you were straight into it. I mean, I yea show, same thing, but I went the route that was a bit more like, oh you can. You went into a boxing gym and went to learn and then jumped into the fights like I. Yeah, I find the corporate boxing challenge all the bells and whistles, but are really shafe and imposter syndrome friendly way into the sports Like oh I heard in my mind when I saw the poster, I was like, Oh, any fuck wick can do this. I'm invited.

Yeah, oh you were straight into it. I mean, I yea show, same thing, but I went the route that was a bit more like, oh you can. You went into a boxing gym and went to learn and then jumped into the fights like I. Yeah, I find the corporate boxing challenge all the bells and whistles, but are really shafe and imposter syndrome friendly way into the sports Like oh I heard in my mind when I saw the poster, I was like, Oh, any fuck wick can do this. I'm invited.

Anyone can do it.

Anyone can do it.

You don't have to be special, but to get in that boxing ring and compete and give it a crack. I'm mean it takes a lot of guards to don't expect anyone that moves through those ropes, but honestly, anyone can give it a go. Like I've witnessed some incredible stuffs and people and corporate events, Like I've been a part of a couple of corporate events, helped a couple with a couple of them. And watching someone go from not being able to sort of even throw a punch or shying away from being hit to getting in there and fighting even just that is just absolutely incredible. Watching them grow as just a human being in that time is just absolutely phenomenal. Like, I love it. It's so cool.

You don't have to be special, but to get in that boxing ring and compete and give it a crack. I'm mean it takes a lot of guards to don't expect anyone that moves through those ropes, but honestly, anyone can give it a go. Like I've witnessed some incredible stuffs and people and corporate events, Like I've been a part of a couple of corporate events, helped a couple with a couple of them. And watching someone go from not being able to sort of even throw a punch or shying away from being hit to getting in there and fighting even just that is just absolutely incredible. Watching them grow as just a human being in that time is just absolutely phenomenal. Like, I love it. It's so cool.

Yeah, it's a really powerful sport. And I've fallen in love with introducing women to it in particular. And then for me, when I talk about kind of my relationship with boxing, always say I fell into the solution before I realized I had a Like I went in there OBLIVI right, and then when I reverse engineered it, when I got curious about what do I like it in here? What's the do? Why is this a comfortable place. Why is all the questions? It was like, oh, some ship, some shit comes up, and I change and I see what I see the therapy within it, and see how it changed me. What what was your experience? What did you how long before you got a sense of, Hey, this is a really profound sport for my psychology and physiology.

Yeah, it's a really powerful sport. And I've fallen in love with introducing women to it in particular. And then for me, when I talk about kind of my relationship with boxing, always say I fell into the solution before I realized I had a Like I went in there OBLIVI right, and then when I reverse engineered it, when I got curious about what do I like it in here? What's the do? Why is this a comfortable place. Why is all the questions? It was like, oh, some ship, some shit comes up, and I change and I see what I see the therapy within it, and see how it changed me. What what was your experience? What did you how long before you got a sense of, Hey, this is a really profound sport for my psychology and physiology.

To be honest, I didn't realize that I had any any issues. I thought that everything that I kind of went through was just normal getting in the ring. For me, I felt a sense of being at peace, and it came and I didn't understand why. Whereas most people were very anxious and they didn't really yeah, like they'd do it, but a lot of people would go and do it. They'd have one, they'd have two flights, and they just really wouldn't go back to doing it again. For me, I just felt like before I would compete, i'd feel like a sense of like just being tranquil and just so can't so collected like it was the only time in my life that I felt like that, And I thought that was a little bit odd.

To be honest, I didn't realize that I had any any issues. I thought that everything that I kind of went through was just normal getting in the ring. For me, I felt a sense of being at peace, and it came and I didn't understand why. Whereas most people were very anxious and they didn't really yeah, like they'd do it, but a lot of people would go and do it. They'd have one, they'd have two flights, and they just really wouldn't go back to doing it again. For me, I just felt like before I would compete, i'd feel like a sense of like just being tranquil and just so can't so collected like it was the only time in my life that I felt like that, And I thought that was a little bit odd.

Didn't know why.

Didn't know why.

Things kind of started adding up a bit later on, but yeah, I think that just even just being in a boxing gym, meeting some of the people that I've met, some of the most incredible people. It's a very vulnerable sport. You have to be vulnerable to be involved in the sport. And I think, yeah, it just for me. I don't think I know myself without it, like it's yeah, it's something else.

Things kind of started adding up a bit later on, but yeah, I think that just even just being in a boxing gym, meeting some of the people that I've met, some of the most incredible people. It's a very vulnerable sport. You have to be vulnerable to be involved in the sport. And I think, yeah, it just for me. I don't think I know myself without it, like it's yeah, it's something else.

Yeah, I love it. I love that. And it is a vulnerable sport. Yeah, as you said that word, and I was again, I'm visualizing back my very beginning, and yeah, it was when I went, if I'm not scared of punching the face, what am I scared of? Yeah, vulnerability was the thing I was scared of. And so as you said that, and I went, yeah, it is a vulnerable sport. And it was vulnerable when I first stepped in, and vulnerables and I was scared of. Why I wasn't I scared of that?

Yeah, I love it. I love that. And it is a vulnerable sport. Yeah, as you said that word, and I was again, I'm visualizing back my very beginning, and yeah, it was when I went, if I'm not scared of punching the face, what am I scared of? Yeah, vulnerability was the thing I was scared of. And so as you said that, and I went, yeah, it is a vulnerable sport. And it was vulnerable when I first stepped in, and vulnerables and I was scared of. Why I wasn't I scared of that?

Yes?

Yes?

It was the boundaries, right, And I talk about it now. Boxing was great because there's boundaries and I don't need to set them because I mean boundaries. We don't really know each other like yep, but in boxing, there's a sport we get close, people come into proximity, there's conflict, there's all of the things I don't know how to manage, but there's rules manage them and they get to be spectators and I get to not be hidden in the dark. And for me, for me on my background, that was that was such a powerful thing.

It was the boundaries, right, And I talk about it now. Boxing was great because there's boundaries and I don't need to set them because I mean boundaries. We don't really know each other like yep, but in boxing, there's a sport we get close, people come into proximity, there's conflict, there's all of the things I don't know how to manage, but there's rules manage them and they get to be spectators and I get to not be hidden in the dark. And for me, for me on my background, that was that was such a powerful thing.

So if we might have to make you a pro boxer, I think you might have to join the pro ranks because it's a there's another level on that because being able to showcase yourself, being able to wear what you want, and being able to even just jazzing yourself up going out like it's another there's another level to it, like it's absolutely insane.

So if we might have to make you a pro boxer, I think you might have to join the pro ranks because it's a there's another level on that because being able to showcase yourself, being able to wear what you want, and being able to even just jazzing yourself up going out like it's another there's another level to it, like it's absolutely insane.

It's probably a little bit more vulnerable.

It's probably a little bit more vulnerable.

But I feel like for me, I can be in that ring whoever I want to be same thing like that. There's Yeah, for me, there's like rules, and I used to be like a real like stick of four rules. I liked things to be like in their place. And that's probably why I joined the military as well, because yeah, there's a lot of rules, a lot of regulations and things. Yeah, but I think that I don't even know where I was going with that, but it's losto a complete train of thought, But yeah, it is.

But I feel like for me, I can be in that ring whoever I want to be same thing like that. There's Yeah, for me, there's like rules, and I used to be like a real like stick of four rules. I liked things to be like in their place. And that's probably why I joined the military as well, because yeah, there's a lot of rules, a lot of regulations and things. Yeah, but I think that I don't even know where I was going with that, but it's losto a complete train of thought, But yeah, it is.

It's a pretty pretty incredible sport.

It's a pretty pretty incredible sport.

I love it.

I love it.

I love yeah.

I love yeah.

Like what is what is power to you? Or empowerment? Like You've such a powerful human and you've stepped into two of the most powerful and empowering and strong roles.

Like what is what is power to you? Or empowerment? Like You've such a powerful human and you've stepped into two of the most powerful and empowering and strong roles.

It's funny you say that, because I don't feel like a very powerful human being. I think that I in trying to find myself. I think that I've kind of given myself.

It's funny you say that, because I don't feel like a very powerful human being. I think that I in trying to find myself. I think that I've kind of given myself.

The power back.

The power back.

But I struggle with what you said vulnerability and stuff as well, Like I I put this front up because I'm scared to be vulnerable. I've put this front up that says I'm a boxer, I'm in the military.

But I struggle with what you said vulnerability and stuff as well, Like I I put this front up because I'm scared to be vulnerable. I've put this front up that says I'm a boxer, I'm in the military.

You can't touch me, you can't hurt me.

You can't touch me, you can't hurt me.

Yeah, And I've only learned sort of in the last three years that you can be sort of feminine and soft and nurturing and keeping a mother as well now and you can still be sort of powerful and strong and and you have like these two sides to yourself. Whereas beforehand, I thought that to be able to protect myself, I need to put up this front and you know, I probably had a lot of shame and stuff there as well that was sort of blocking that sort of vulnerable side of myself. But I think over the last it's only really over the last three years that you're saying that, hey, you're a very powerful person. You you know, you're boxing and you're you're in the military, and you've done these things that I've actually ever really even thought about them. Yeah, so it's been a bit of a discovery journey for me.

Yeah, And I've only learned sort of in the last three years that you can be sort of feminine and soft and nurturing and keeping a mother as well now and you can still be sort of powerful and strong and and you have like these two sides to yourself. Whereas beforehand, I thought that to be able to protect myself, I need to put up this front and you know, I probably had a lot of shame and stuff there as well that was sort of blocking that sort of vulnerable side of myself. But I think over the last it's only really over the last three years that you're saying that, hey, you're a very powerful person. You you know, you're boxing and you're you're in the military, and you've done these things that I've actually ever really even thought about them. Yeah, so it's been a bit of a discovery journey for me.

M Yeah, has it?

M Yeah, has it?

Has it transferred that sense of power and I feel like safety because they are really safe environments they are.

Has it transferred that sense of power and I feel like safety because they are really safe environments they are.

Yeah?

Yeah?

Has that that transferred out of there? And in what ways? When did you see that? How did you see that?

Has that that transferred out of there? And in what ways? When did you see that? How did you see that?

It's been really being the last three years.

It's been really being the last three years.

I went through a really tough time within my working space where I had someone that I was working with triggering a lot of.

I went through a really tough time within my working space where I had someone that I was working with triggering a lot of.

Things with me from the past.

Things with me from the past.

And it wasn't until I kind of looked into that and went and seek out some help from someone else that.

And it wasn't until I kind of looked into that and went and seek out some help from someone else that.

I actually started to realize what I was doing.

I actually started to realize what I was doing.

So I was kind of putting up that front and and yeah, that was sort of when I got my diagnosis as the ADHD as well, Yeah, because I actually I had an absolutely no idea like yeah, yeah.

So I was kind of putting up that front and and yeah, that was sort of when I got my diagnosis as the ADHD as well, Yeah, because I actually I had an absolutely no idea like yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. When did you start the military.

Yeah, yeah, I love that. When did you start the military.

Oh eight years ago now, so I was actually actually started. So I wanted to join a combat corps and there was no combat cause available time. And don't even ask me why I wanted to join a combat corps. For me, I think that that power thing comes into it is again and it's like, hey, if the men can do it, I can do it too, and I want to prove that I can do it.

Oh eight years ago now, so I was actually actually started. So I wanted to join a combat corps and there was no combat cause available time. And don't even ask me why I wanted to join a combat corps. For me, I think that that power thing comes into it is again and it's like, hey, if the men can do it, I can do it too, and I want to prove that I can do it.

So I decided that.

So I decided that.

I think within a year of me looking at it, I was sort of just working it as a physical training is like a PT doing stuff like that. And then I looked again and I'm like, oh, They've opened up combat quick course to women.

I think within a year of me looking at it, I was sort of just working it as a physical training is like a PT doing stuff like that. And then I looked again and I'm like, oh, They've opened up combat quick course to women.

Women can be infantry.

Women can be infantry.

Now this is freaking amazing, Like I can actually join and try and make my impact kind of on the world and sort of help other people. That was just my thought process. Yeah, so I joined in twenty sixteen as one of the first female infantry soldiers.

Now this is freaking amazing, Like I can actually join and try and make my impact kind of on the world and sort of help other people. That was just my thought process. Yeah, so I joined in twenty sixteen as one of the first female infantry soldiers.

So yeah, it was fit concrats.

So yeah, it was fit concrats.

Yeah. Yeah, how do you manage.

Yeah. Yeah, how do you manage.

I haven't even haven't even talked about bub yet, but I mean, firstly, how do you manage full time work and full time well yeah, full time. I'm not even gonna say, part time. You can't be you can't be a you can't fight as a professional fighter and be a part time trainer. It's the one thing. And I've had a hell of a year with energy, and like I was going to get back into fighting this time last year, and I started training in my energy, I don't like. Is it fucking burnout? Is it perimenopause? Is it fucking just over the everything? What is it? I go, I've I hit a wall and I've got crawled out. How are you managing work and fighting as a professional fighter and winning shit?

I haven't even haven't even talked about bub yet, but I mean, firstly, how do you manage full time work and full time well yeah, full time. I'm not even gonna say, part time. You can't be you can't be a you can't fight as a professional fighter and be a part time trainer. It's the one thing. And I've had a hell of a year with energy, and like I was going to get back into fighting this time last year, and I started training in my energy, I don't like. Is it fucking burnout? Is it perimenopause? Is it fucking just over the everything? What is it? I go, I've I hit a wall and I've got crawled out. How are you managing work and fighting as a professional fighter and winning shit?

Yeah? So I think it's my mindset change over the last three years.

Yeah? So I think it's my mindset change over the last three years.

There is no way that I would have ever pictured myself to be in the position that I am now three years ago. I don't think I could have done it. I'm here to enjoy my life, like I am not competing. I want to win a world title, don't get me wrong, but that's not in the forefront of my mind. I want to be the best mom that I can be.

There is no way that I would have ever pictured myself to be in the position that I am now three years ago. I don't think I could have done it. I'm here to enjoy my life, like I am not competing. I want to win a world title, don't get me wrong, but that's not in the forefront of my mind. I want to be the best mom that I can be.

Number one.

Number one.

I want to teach my child or even she's actually teaching me, just how to be sort of vulnerable, all that joy dancing, laughter, like all that kind of stuff.

I want to teach my child or even she's actually teaching me, just how to be sort of vulnerable, all that joy dancing, laughter, like all that kind of stuff.

And I want to share that with her and my family. Number one.

And I want to share that with her and my family. Number one.

Number two for me is my boxing, okay, and then sort of my work as well. So if one of those things is taking over the other, then I'll drop back on one.

Number two for me is my boxing, okay, and then sort of my work as well. So if one of those things is taking over the other, then I'll drop back on one.

And I've learned how to train smart. So I probably don't.

And I've learned how to train smart. So I probably don't.

Train the old school way as hard as what a lot of other athletes train. But my mindset is that when I'm when I am training, I do train every day, but when I am training and I have that period of time that I'm training for, I am training at one hundred and ten percent mentally and physically.

Train the old school way as hard as what a lot of other athletes train. But my mindset is that when I'm when I am training, I do train every day, but when I am training and I have that period of time that I'm training for, I am training at one hundred and ten percent mentally and physically.

Yeah. So I do that as a female too.

Yeah. So I do that as a female too.

I get my bloods tested like every three to six months just to make sure everything's good. I go and see a natural path and I kind of stupplement everything as well. So that has been a massive life change and physical change for me too. When I think that with my my mindset and bringing all that in together, I can actually manage it pretty well, which is yeah, which is interesting, which is good.

I get my bloods tested like every three to six months just to make sure everything's good. I go and see a natural path and I kind of stupplement everything as well. So that has been a massive life change and physical change for me too. When I think that with my my mindset and bringing all that in together, I can actually manage it pretty well, which is yeah, which is interesting, which is good.

I love that just do what you put you got to do. Yeah yeah. And I love that train harder, not smarter, And you know, I think about that a lot, you know, the idea of how much we we push and train and stay on the on the bloody training.

I love that just do what you put you got to do. Yeah yeah. And I love that train harder, not smarter, And you know, I think about that a lot, you know, the idea of how much we we push and train and stay on the on the bloody training.

Yeah yeah, yeah, and you've got a taper like I will. I will train really hard for my fights. Like, don't get me wrong, Like I'm training twice a day. I'm up at four am. Sometimes I do make sure I get my eight hours, which is hard because I.

Yeah yeah, yeah, and you've got a taper like I will. I will train really hard for my fights. Like, don't get me wrong, Like I'm training twice a day. I'm up at four am. Sometimes I do make sure I get my eight hours, which is hard because I.

Have a baby.

Have a baby.

But yeah, yeah, so I know, and sometimes that just doesn't happen. I have weeks where I'm just incredibly exhausted, but I do push through and then I sort of catch up somewhere else. But I think that, yeah, training smarter, not harder, that's where we're going with this. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, like I yeah, I'll get up in the mornings, I'll train, I work. My work's really supportive as well. So with a defense Force, they have a thing called Elite Sports Status. So when I'm in a camp on a six week camp, on Wednesdays, they give me the day to sort of train and work from home, which is absolutely incredible. And I do that with all elite athletes, which is which is a good way to sort of get people in the defense Force that are quite active.

But yeah, yeah, so I know, and sometimes that just doesn't happen. I have weeks where I'm just incredibly exhausted, but I do push through and then I sort of catch up somewhere else. But I think that, yeah, training smarter, not harder, that's where we're going with this. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, like I yeah, I'll get up in the mornings, I'll train, I work. My work's really supportive as well. So with a defense Force, they have a thing called Elite Sports Status. So when I'm in a camp on a six week camp, on Wednesdays, they give me the day to sort of train and work from home, which is absolutely incredible. And I do that with all elite athletes, which is which is a good way to sort of get people in the defense Force that are quite active.

And yeah, when my six week camp is over, I taper off a fight.

And yeah, when my six week camp is over, I taper off a fight.

I have an incredible strength conditioning coach and a normal coach as well, which a boxing coach, which are really supportive of it. After that, I have a week sort of downtime, and then I just go back to maintenance. So I my watch, I checked track, my HIV, I use the science behind it, I maintain, and then when I get another fight coming up, I ramp it up again. And I think you can only do that a few times a year, like probably four times a year, maybe a little bit more if you're really good at it. Yeah, but otherwise you're just going to burn out. I mean, burnout is huge with people work as athletes too. Yeah. I mean I've been there, I've done it. I've burnt out so hard I've crashed and burnt yeah.

I have an incredible strength conditioning coach and a normal coach as well, which a boxing coach, which are really supportive of it. After that, I have a week sort of downtime, and then I just go back to maintenance. So I my watch, I checked track, my HIV, I use the science behind it, I maintain, and then when I get another fight coming up, I ramp it up again. And I think you can only do that a few times a year, like probably four times a year, maybe a little bit more if you're really good at it. Yeah, but otherwise you're just going to burn out. I mean, burnout is huge with people work as athletes too. Yeah. I mean I've been there, I've done it. I've burnt out so hard I've crashed and burnt yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So yeah, I love that there's a space for everything for you being able to apply everything, Like firstly just in a sport like boxing. I love that there's a space for you to have been able to control that and make that work, but also for the military as well.

So yeah, I love that there's a space for everything for you being able to apply everything, Like firstly just in a sport like boxing. I love that there's a space for you to have been able to control that and make that work, but also for the military as well.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, that's amazing.

Yeah, that's amazing.

It is amazing. Yeah.

It is amazing. Yeah.

Yeah, support networks, they're incredible. Like my boxing I take my daughter with me. So my daughter comes to me to training, like every single time I train. I've got a family pretty much there that hey if tastes sparring, my daughter she loves watching me.

Yeah, support networks, they're incredible. Like my boxing I take my daughter with me. So my daughter comes to me to training, like every single time I train. I've got a family pretty much there that hey if tastes sparring, my daughter she loves watching me.

Number one.

Number one.

She gets in there and has a muck around, especially during the breaks, but they'll grab her and give her a cuddle and like help me out. Like just yeah, I think boxing gyms in general are just really supporting communities. So without that, I wouldn't be able to do what I do.

She gets in there and has a muck around, especially during the breaks, but they'll grab her and give her a cuddle and like help me out. Like just yeah, I think boxing gyms in general are just really supporting communities. So without that, I wouldn't be able to do what I do.

Yeah. Yeah, it looked like a lonely sport, but it's actually the complete opposite.

Yeah. Yeah, it looked like a lonely sport, but it's actually the complete opposite.

Isn't it. So family incredible. Yeah, talk to me.

Isn't it. So family incredible. Yeah, talk to me.

Like, who were you and what was the tipping point? As much as you want to share and elaborate three years ago, she referenced three years Yeah, so obviously there was there was there was a moment, There was a time, there was a realization and maybe a tipping point and how did you overcome that?

Like, who were you and what was the tipping point? As much as you want to share and elaborate three years ago, she referenced three years Yeah, so obviously there was there was there was a moment, There was a time, there was a realization and maybe a tipping point and how did you overcome that?

Yeah, So for me, I think it was probably more than three years ago.

Yeah, So for me, I think it was probably more than three years ago.

It started.

It started.

I was in the amateur boxing and I actually went for the national trial to compete in the It was like a process to go to the Olympic Games, and I lost a fight which I believe was a pretty unfair decision against somebody who'd been in the game for a very, very long time and they were kind of being brought up to be in that position and to win that tit. And I'd actually before that, i'd sort of taken almost a year off work and all I was doing was training for that event, and that was off my own back. Yeah, so it was pretty heartbreaking to not get the decision in a fight that I was pretty sure that i'd won. And after that, I think I fell like into almost like a mild depression. Like it was pretty it was pretty horrible. I gave up boxing. I quit completely, like I was done. I never wanted to step back into a boxing gym like it was just. Yeah, it was absolutely heartbreaking for me. I went for I went back to work as well. I had a boss who, as I said, was he was quite a controlling human being quite micromanaging. We didn't get along very well. I watched him sort of treat some people around me really poorly, and that kind of triggered something within me that brought back a lot of anxiety again. I was starting to have panic attacks again, which I hadn't had for quite.

I was in the amateur boxing and I actually went for the national trial to compete in the It was like a process to go to the Olympic Games, and I lost a fight which I believe was a pretty unfair decision against somebody who'd been in the game for a very, very long time and they were kind of being brought up to be in that position and to win that tit. And I'd actually before that, i'd sort of taken almost a year off work and all I was doing was training for that event, and that was off my own back. Yeah, so it was pretty heartbreaking to not get the decision in a fight that I was pretty sure that i'd won. And after that, I think I fell like into almost like a mild depression. Like it was pretty it was pretty horrible. I gave up boxing. I quit completely, like I was done. I never wanted to step back into a boxing gym like it was just. Yeah, it was absolutely heartbreaking for me. I went for I went back to work as well. I had a boss who, as I said, was he was quite a controlling human being quite micromanaging. We didn't get along very well. I watched him sort of treat some people around me really poorly, and that kind of triggered something within me that brought back a lot of anxiety again. I was starting to have panic attacks again, which I hadn't had for quite.

A few years.

A few years.

With the boxing, I was in a really kind of good place and with my military, my training and everything as well. And then after that I thought it sort of had a bit of a mental breakdown. Actually, I thought I was probably in a sense maybe just going crazy, Like I was starting to have a few nightmares and dreams and flashbacks sort of things, and a lot of things started to happen that just weren't making sense, and I just wasn't really functioning. I was coming home. I'm not a very teary person. I don't show emotion at all, and I was coming home and I was just breaking down, like I was in tears, I was getting angry. And this was before my daughter was born. So it wasn't fair on my fiance either, even though she was supporting me and helping me through it. Yes, I sort of made the decision to go and seek some help and speak to a psychologist. And it was really hard to sort of be open with that as well, because I'm not a very vulnerable person. As I said, I was putting up that front to be like, hey, I'm so strong, like I'm powerful, and you know, if I don't let you in, you can't hurt me, and that was kind of the process that I'd sort of go towards, and I sort of was just pushing everybody away. And then, yeah, after speaking to the psychologists for probably i'd say it was probably about a year before I even was able to speak about anything that had sort of happened within my life. They sort of asked me some questions about my prior history with some of that stuff I said before, about the abusive relationships and the talking and stuff like that, and that all sort of came out, and as to why I was having a lot of my sort of panic attacks and anxiety and all that sort of stuff.

With the boxing, I was in a really kind of good place and with my military, my training and everything as well. And then after that I thought it sort of had a bit of a mental breakdown. Actually, I thought I was probably in a sense maybe just going crazy, Like I was starting to have a few nightmares and dreams and flashbacks sort of things, and a lot of things started to happen that just weren't making sense, and I just wasn't really functioning. I was coming home. I'm not a very teary person. I don't show emotion at all, and I was coming home and I was just breaking down, like I was in tears, I was getting angry. And this was before my daughter was born. So it wasn't fair on my fiance either, even though she was supporting me and helping me through it. Yes, I sort of made the decision to go and seek some help and speak to a psychologist. And it was really hard to sort of be open with that as well, because I'm not a very vulnerable person. As I said, I was putting up that front to be like, hey, I'm so strong, like I'm powerful, and you know, if I don't let you in, you can't hurt me, and that was kind of the process that I'd sort of go towards, and I sort of was just pushing everybody away. And then, yeah, after speaking to the psychologists for probably i'd say it was probably about a year before I even was able to speak about anything that had sort of happened within my life. They sort of asked me some questions about my prior history with some of that stuff I said before, about the abusive relationships and the talking and stuff like that, and that all sort of came out, and as to why I was having a lot of my sort of panic attacks and anxiety and all that sort of stuff.

And then I started doing.

And then I started doing.

My own research into like shame and vulnerability, and I researched a lot into to Brian Brown.

My own research into like shame and vulnerability, and I researched a lot into to Brian Brown.

Brene Brown.

Brene Brown.

You've heard of her, but she's actually phenomenal and has changed my life.

You've heard of her, but she's actually phenomenal and has changed my life.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, And I think having my daughter as well, I've learned a lot more about sort of being vulnerable, being a bit more feminine, And she's taught me how to love and laugh and and just sort of have fun and not care what people think, because that was a big thing with me too, like I had to have everything perfect, and if it wasn't perfect, then I wasn't perfect and I could make a mistake. And if I made a mistake, then I was scared that other people were going to see me in a different light. And it's actually got to the point now where my history and stuff like being open with it and be a bit more vulnerable. I now don't have as much shame as what I did, and I feel like I'm a lot more open with the person that I am and it's okay to be myself as well.

Yeah, And I think having my daughter as well, I've learned a lot more about sort of being vulnerable, being a bit more feminine, And she's taught me how to love and laugh and and just sort of have fun and not care what people think, because that was a big thing with me too, like I had to have everything perfect, and if it wasn't perfect, then I wasn't perfect and I could make a mistake. And if I made a mistake, then I was scared that other people were going to see me in a different light. And it's actually got to the point now where my history and stuff like being open with it and be a bit more vulnerable. I now don't have as much shame as what I did, and I feel like I'm a lot more open with the person that I am and it's okay to be myself as well.

So and I want my daughter to know that too.

So and I want my daughter to know that too.

That's a big thing, Like I want her to just be herself no matter what anyone thinks or anyone says. I want her to be the human being that she is. So yeah, I think that's sort of where it all sort of started and stemmed from, and that's made me a different fighter as well. I'm actually I'm actually going into the ring now just because I love doing it and I'm in the I'm backstage now and I'm not putting pressure on myself and the people behind there with me can bouge for this. I'm laughing, we're cracking jokes, we're having fun. Like I'm like if you're not fun, you're not in here with me, go away, get out of here, Like if you're maybe anxious, leave the room.

That's a big thing, Like I want her to just be herself no matter what anyone thinks or anyone says. I want her to be the human being that she is. So yeah, I think that's sort of where it all sort of started and stemmed from, and that's made me a different fighter as well. I'm actually I'm actually going into the ring now just because I love doing it and I'm in the I'm backstage now and I'm not putting pressure on myself and the people behind there with me can bouge for this. I'm laughing, we're cracking jokes, we're having fun. Like I'm like if you're not fun, you're not in here with me, go away, get out of here, Like if you're maybe anxious, leave the room.

Yeah. So it's just a massively fun experience.

Yeah. So it's just a massively fun experience.

And then walking out too, I get other people to pick my songs for me, and then I have a bit of a boogie on the way out, like it's pretty fun.

And then walking out too, I get other people to pick my songs for me, and then I have a bit of a boogie on the way out, like it's pretty fun.

And then aster I step through those ropes I have.

And then aster I step through those ropes I have.

Yeah, I'm I'm just enjoying being in there and I'm enjoying throwing punches and I'm able to slow everything down. Now, nothing's racing, it's not going fast. I can see punches coming, like, yeah, I almost feel like I'm a different human.

Yeah, I'm I'm just enjoying being in there and I'm enjoying throwing punches and I'm able to slow everything down. Now, nothing's racing, it's not going fast. I can see punches coming, like, yeah, I almost feel like I'm a different human.

But yeah, it's it's interesting.

But yeah, it's it's interesting.

I love that. Thank you for sharing that. There's so many components. As you spoke that, I was like, oh, soul sister, we are twinning. And one thing I was thinking is like, it makes perfect sense to me that you would have had that crash and that demise when you think about the identity that boxing wraps around you when you can control it, when that's the perception you have of who you are in that environment, but then when and it's such an exposed sport, and then when it doesn't go your way and you haven't been able to control it, and you're not an inverted commas perfect. Yeah, it's so not surprising that you went through that downturn and reacted that way.

I love that. Thank you for sharing that. There's so many components. As you spoke that, I was like, oh, soul sister, we are twinning. And one thing I was thinking is like, it makes perfect sense to me that you would have had that crash and that demise when you think about the identity that boxing wraps around you when you can control it, when that's the perception you have of who you are in that environment, but then when and it's such an exposed sport, and then when it doesn't go your way and you haven't been able to control it, and you're not an inverted commas perfect. Yeah, it's so not surprising that you went through that downturn and reacted that way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I was actually pretty down on myself for reacting that way because I thought, to myself, you're resilient, and now you're just gonna give this sport up, this sport that you love and has given you so much. But I just I couldn't see any other way. I didn't want to step back into a boxing ring. I got rid of all my social media. I didn't want to see anyone's social media around boxing, Like I didn't want to see anything or be involved with the sport at all anymore.

And I was actually pretty down on myself for reacting that way because I thought, to myself, you're resilient, and now you're just gonna give this sport up, this sport that you love and has given you so much. But I just I couldn't see any other way. I didn't want to step back into a boxing ring. I got rid of all my social media. I didn't want to see anyone's social media around boxing, Like I didn't want to see anything or be involved with the sport at all anymore.

And it was a horrible way to think about it, but that was my protection from my protective mechanism.

And it was a horrible way to think about it, but that was my protection from my protective mechanism.

That's the only way that I knew how to control it was to push it away and get rid of it. Like, yeah, it sounds really horrible and it doesn't sound very resilient, but at the time that that was how I coped, and I've done that in my life, Like I pushed things away and I pushed things down so far so deep that I never had to think about them again. I actually become just like emotionless.

That's the only way that I knew how to control it was to push it away and get rid of it. Like, yeah, it sounds really horrible and it doesn't sound very resilient, but at the time that that was how I coped, and I've done that in my life, Like I pushed things away and I pushed things down so far so deep that I never had to think about them again. I actually become just like emotionless.

I don't I don't.

I don't I don't.

Remember until the last couple of years actually feeling emotion. And I know that sounds horrible, but and I having my daughter and everything too, Like I know that there's so many different emotions out there, but I don't remember being able to feel sort of happy or sad or anything like that. Like I just had absolutely nothing, which is really sad. But yeah, that's kind of what it become for.

Remember until the last couple of years actually feeling emotion. And I know that sounds horrible, but and I having my daughter and everything too, Like I know that there's so many different emotions out there, but I don't remember being able to feel sort of happy or sad or anything like that. Like I just had absolutely nothing, which is really sad. But yeah, that's kind of what it become for.

Me one And like I feel that. And I feel that I have a real issue around resilience and the way people talk about it and frame it and relate to it. And I wonder if your experience was similar to mine, which was I had this perception that i'd built that I was resilient and independent and strong as fuck and taking over the world and look at me go and I'm brave because I'm doing all this thing and I don't feel scared. But I realize now that I was stepping into a place for me of dissociation and to not feel emotion. To be in an experience that makes you dissociate gets rid of what would replace negative horrifically terrifying. Yeah, you feel nothing, and feeling nothing's quite safe it is.

Me one And like I feel that. And I feel that I have a real issue around resilience and the way people talk about it and frame it and relate to it. And I wonder if your experience was similar to mine, which was I had this perception that i'd built that I was resilient and independent and strong as fuck and taking over the world and look at me go and I'm brave because I'm doing all this thing and I don't feel scared. But I realize now that I was stepping into a place for me of dissociation and to not feel emotion. To be in an experience that makes you dissociate gets rid of what would replace negative horrifically terrifying. Yeah, you feel nothing, and feeling nothing's quite safe it is.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah, So I wonder how resilient we ever are when we think we are, until we bring up the vulnerable stuff and are able to take that into the place with us and go like, dissociations are super ou Doctor Bruce Perrier had a show and I talked about this to him, and he said, dissociation it's a bad rap. It's a super power. It's incredible thing. We just have to be aware when it's there and when we're using it and not take it out of the ring with us.

Yeah, So I wonder how resilient we ever are when we think we are, until we bring up the vulnerable stuff and are able to take that into the place with us and go like, dissociations are super ou Doctor Bruce Perrier had a show and I talked about this to him, and he said, dissociation it's a bad rap. It's a super power. It's incredible thing. We just have to be aware when it's there and when we're using it and not take it out of the ring with us.

Yeah, and how hard is it to be aware of when you're associating. It's ridiculously hard, it's yeah, yeah, to push down everything in those emotions and stuff too. Like Yeah, for me, I didn't, I was I had absolutely no awareness, And now I'm kind of more aware that, Hey, you have to feel those emotions and that's resilience, Like you have to be able to feel the emotions and you have to be I picture it like, I don't know if you know the song like He's Sticky Bubblegum. My daughter loves that song as a song. Yeah, so I picture myself just like, yeah, keep bubble gum. I'm just like kids songs are just stuck in my head now. But but yeah, I could sure myself because I do a lot of visualization as well, and in my sport and in my life now. But I picture myself stuck in bubblegum, like I'm just stuck there, and I'm stuck in this web of bubble gum. And every time I kind of I break free and I feel this emotion and I'm sort of stuck there and it just flings me back in and it flings me back in and just being able to break out. And then finally sort of after you've worked through that process and you've worked through that emotion, you've let yourself feel that emotion, you can kind of break free or break an arm free of that bubble gum and you just you have this new light and this new vision like on life. Yeah, I'm still stuck there, but I'm slowly getting unstuck, like I can feel myself being able to breathe again, and yeah, it's it's it's a journey.