Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress, the Hey with Smarties. Today we are joined by a woman that I absolutely adore.

Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress, the Hey with Smarties. Today we are joined by a woman that I absolutely adore.

A formidable talent to be reckoned with.

A formidable talent to be reckoned with.

A three time Emmy Award winning, Tony Award nominated actress whose work spands television, film, and theater. Today's guest is none other than u Zo Aduba. She was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to parents who immigrated to this country from Nigeria. She eventually moved to New York to pursue acting and gained wide recognition for her role as Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren on the Netflix original series Orange Is the New Black. She won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actress in twenty fourteen, an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in twenty fifteen, to two wo SAG Awards for Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series. She is also one of only two actors to win an Emmy Award in both the Comedy and Drama categories for the same role. She's a Legend. In twenty twenty, she played Shirley Chisholm in the Hulu mini series Missus America. For which she also won an Emmy Award. And by the way, it's the coolest glimpse into the history that women have made in this country. If you haven't seen it, you must watch it immediately. I could literally spend the next three minutes reading the rest of her resume. But whether it's film, television, broadway, Uzo Aduba is an absolute force. Now she is producing. She has a multi year deal with CBS Studios. She has set up over a dozen series projects. I don't know where she finds the time. And to add to this incredible resume, she is now a first time author. Her book The Road Is Good. How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose is a powerful memoir about immigrant identity, the story of an unforgettable matriarch. Huzzo's mom is one of a kind. You feel like you get to know her in these pages, and in some way, I think her uniqueness is what will make her feel universal to all of you. She reminded me in my own ways, of my own family and our own story. It's just such a beautiful page turner about a girl grappling with a master juggling act, growing up one of one in a community, and learning to take that feeling of being othered and turn it into unique beauty. This book is more than just the journey of a young woman has determined to survive young adulthood. It's the story of how an incredible mother can be such a testament to stepping into your power. It's so good that I'm going to stop talking so that we can dive into this interview and you can hear the marvelous Zoa Duba speak on this herself.

A three time Emmy Award winning, Tony Award nominated actress whose work spands television, film, and theater. Today's guest is none other than u Zo Aduba. She was born in Boston, Massachusetts, to parents who immigrated to this country from Nigeria. She eventually moved to New York to pursue acting and gained wide recognition for her role as Suzanne Crazy Eyes Warren on the Netflix original series Orange Is the New Black. She won an Emmy Award for Outstanding Guest Actress in twenty fourteen, an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in twenty fifteen, to two wo SAG Awards for Outstanding Performance by a Female Actor in a Comedy Series. She is also one of only two actors to win an Emmy Award in both the Comedy and Drama categories for the same role. She's a Legend. In twenty twenty, she played Shirley Chisholm in the Hulu mini series Missus America. For which she also won an Emmy Award. And by the way, it's the coolest glimpse into the history that women have made in this country. If you haven't seen it, you must watch it immediately. I could literally spend the next three minutes reading the rest of her resume. But whether it's film, television, broadway, Uzo Aduba is an absolute force. Now she is producing. She has a multi year deal with CBS Studios. She has set up over a dozen series projects. I don't know where she finds the time. And to add to this incredible resume, she is now a first time author. Her book The Road Is Good. How a Mother's Strength Became a Daughter's Purpose is a powerful memoir about immigrant identity, the story of an unforgettable matriarch. Huzzo's mom is one of a kind. You feel like you get to know her in these pages, and in some way, I think her uniqueness is what will make her feel universal to all of you. She reminded me in my own ways, of my own family and our own story. It's just such a beautiful page turner about a girl grappling with a master juggling act, growing up one of one in a community, and learning to take that feeling of being othered and turn it into unique beauty. This book is more than just the journey of a young woman has determined to survive young adulthood. It's the story of how an incredible mother can be such a testament to stepping into your power. It's so good that I'm going to stop talking so that we can dive into this interview and you can hear the marvelous Zoa Duba speak on this herself.

Enjoy Thanks for having me.

Enjoy Thanks for having me.

Thank you for coming.

Thank you for coming.

How are you feeling with the book and everything I'm feeling.

How are you feeling with the book and everything I'm feeling.

I'm feeling a bunch of different feelings, to be honest with you, I'm feeling excited, nervous, curious, happy, sometimes a little sad, but supremely thankful at the end of the day because I was like, oh, man, I wish my mom was here to get to like see it, you know, and let's all come together, which is like, of course, you know, a bummer generally, But at the same time, on the other side, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank god we got to have that time together and her to like pour back over me, you know, all all of the lessons and experiences and stories and things that we've gone through, seen together or before, be reminded of her own story with that like detail of knowing you know, I'm really telling this to you and I needed to hold on to it. So yeah, I'm glad that I even had that opportunity.

I'm feeling a bunch of different feelings, to be honest with you, I'm feeling excited, nervous, curious, happy, sometimes a little sad, but supremely thankful at the end of the day because I was like, oh, man, I wish my mom was here to get to like see it, you know, and let's all come together, which is like, of course, you know, a bummer generally, But at the same time, on the other side, I'm like, oh my gosh, thank god we got to have that time together and her to like pour back over me, you know, all all of the lessons and experiences and stories and things that we've gone through, seen together or before, be reminded of her own story with that like detail of knowing you know, I'm really telling this to you and I needed to hold on to it. So yeah, I'm glad that I even had that opportunity.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just really striking me in real time that that is this sort of silver lining of a tragedy is when you know time is fleeting, rather than it ending out of the blue, you probably get to gather and be together and communicate in ways that are deeper. Perhaps then the way we can just walk through the world sometimes taking for granted a moment with someone you love or you know.

Yeah, I mean, I guess it's just really striking me in real time that that is this sort of silver lining of a tragedy is when you know time is fleeting, rather than it ending out of the blue, you probably get to gather and be together and communicate in ways that are deeper. Perhaps then the way we can just walk through the world sometimes taking for granted a moment with someone you love or you know.

Absolutely, my my dear dear friend Iris, she said it to me once as she had her life had been touched by cancer, and she said it, you know, just sort of just said it. She was like, you know, there's a strange there's a strange blessing in cancer. It gives you time to say and do all the things, you know, which is true because you don't want it, and you know, I would rather us not to have that. This is we're candid out blessings. Don't give me that one, you know.

Absolutely, my my dear dear friend Iris, she said it to me once as she had her life had been touched by cancer, and she said it, you know, just sort of just said it. She was like, you know, there's a strange there's a strange blessing in cancer. It gives you time to say and do all the things, you know, which is true because you don't want it, and you know, I would rather us not to have that. This is we're candid out blessings. Don't give me that one, you know.

What I mean, Like I would have loved to have perhaps picked a.

What I mean, Like I would have loved to have perhaps picked a.

Different one exactly exactly, but it is that sort of fortune. And like we had started this book that had scotten, had the proposal draft, started the proposal and was in connection with my publisher, Viking before my mom was six. So then when I sat down to write it, she was six. So when we started diving into some of these you know, stories in this proposal, with the proposal that was not the book I was setting out to write, honestly, the book that I wrote, the book that I was setting out to write. I thought it was just going to.

Different one exactly exactly, but it is that sort of fortune. And like we had started this book that had scotten, had the proposal draft, started the proposal and was in connection with my publisher, Viking before my mom was six. So then when I sat down to write it, she was six. So when we started diving into some of these you know, stories in this proposal, with the proposal that was not the book I was setting out to write, honestly, the book that I wrote, the book that I was setting out to write. I thought it was just going to.

Be like, yeah, lessons exactly, lessons are just being black lah, you know, like that's going to be like the book.

Be like, yeah, lessons exactly, lessons are just being black lah, you know, like that's going to be like the book.

And then it was like, oh wait, now like these lessons, I got to really hear these lessons and like really get her story and like, so yeah, anyway.

And then it was like, oh wait, now like these lessons, I got to really hear these lessons and like really get her story and like, so yeah, anyway.

Wow, this is incredible. I have so many more questions obviously, because you you know, my friend just wrote a book. Hello, But I I really like to go back with people before we go to my favorite first official question to ask someone. I actually have to do a sort of in between the now and then and just rewind us like a quick couple of weeks and say, I got to recap the DNC with you because it was so special to be there. It was so special for me. It's not lost on me that I always see you in my favorite and seemingly most like spiritually or soulfully important rooms. I'm always like, yeah, of course, here this trap. And I was saying when I got home to my partner, I was like, oh, I bawled like a baby every single night. There was like a point in the night where I'd be like, tonight, I'm not going to cry, and then I would just sob Did you have that too? Did you? Were you in the sort of washing machine of excitement and overwhelm or did you just like keep it together better?

Wow, this is incredible. I have so many more questions obviously, because you you know, my friend just wrote a book. Hello, But I I really like to go back with people before we go to my favorite first official question to ask someone. I actually have to do a sort of in between the now and then and just rewind us like a quick couple of weeks and say, I got to recap the DNC with you because it was so special to be there. It was so special for me. It's not lost on me that I always see you in my favorite and seemingly most like spiritually or soulfully important rooms. I'm always like, yeah, of course, here this trap. And I was saying when I got home to my partner, I was like, oh, I bawled like a baby every single night. There was like a point in the night where I'd be like, tonight, I'm not going to cry, and then I would just sob Did you have that too? Did you? Were you in the sort of washing machine of excitement and overwhelm or did you just like keep it together better?

No? No, no, no, no. I was in. I was in in the tears room. I was in the joy bounce house room. I was in like the college lecture, lean in and listen to Professor Presidents Barack Obama and first Lady Professor Michelle ob You know. I was all of those things. And then the culmination of her ascendants to the state of presidential formal presidential nominee that was it was overwhelming and yes, like we have been in those spaces, even if we are to chart and track you and I in January twenty seventeen being in Washington, DC, you remember all those women yes, and the response and the weight of that moment. And then to flash ourselves forward a short eight years later, seven and three quarters years later, and here we are now again, gathered, but this time watching it not only happen again, but feeling the understanding of the real possibility that even it that we're not going back, I mean, like to quote her directly, when we're not going back, you know that we're America is determining, determined in some capacity to push forward, because here we are trying it yet again.

No? No, no, no, no. I was in. I was in in the tears room. I was in the joy bounce house room. I was in like the college lecture, lean in and listen to Professor Presidents Barack Obama and first Lady Professor Michelle ob You know. I was all of those things. And then the culmination of her ascendants to the state of presidential formal presidential nominee that was it was overwhelming and yes, like we have been in those spaces, even if we are to chart and track you and I in January twenty seventeen being in Washington, DC, you remember all those women yes, and the response and the weight of that moment. And then to flash ourselves forward a short eight years later, seven and three quarters years later, and here we are now again, gathered, but this time watching it not only happen again, but feeling the understanding of the real possibility that even it that we're not going back, I mean, like to quote her directly, when we're not going back, you know that we're America is determining, determined in some capacity to push forward, because here we are trying it yet again.

Well, yeah, determined in some capacity to be what we claim to be to be for everyone. It's not supposed to be that hard. But obviously we've all studied our history, and to feel really close to it in this way now after where we've all been feels, you know, I think, even more magical than it did the first potential time around, when we thought, oh, we might have a president that also represents us as women, you know, and it I don't know, it hits me especially, I wonder if it does for you too, I mean, you obviously have the completely different experience. I can only watch, but I don't in habit of being a black woman watching a black woman being nominated for this office. And I think about it just what it means to me for women in general, and that she manages for us, you know, as people lucky enough to reside in California, we've gotten to watch her for so long in all of these different offices to lead, you know, in small ways when not a ton of people were paying attention, maybe outside of our state, and in these massive ways, you know, for all of us across the nation now, and it's I don't know, it's like so silly, not her mom, but I have this very intense like sense of pride. I'm like, that's our girl, that's our attorney general, and.

Well, yeah, determined in some capacity to be what we claim to be to be for everyone. It's not supposed to be that hard. But obviously we've all studied our history, and to feel really close to it in this way now after where we've all been feels, you know, I think, even more magical than it did the first potential time around, when we thought, oh, we might have a president that also represents us as women, you know, and it I don't know, it hits me especially, I wonder if it does for you too, I mean, you obviously have the completely different experience. I can only watch, but I don't in habit of being a black woman watching a black woman being nominated for this office. And I think about it just what it means to me for women in general, and that she manages for us, you know, as people lucky enough to reside in California, we've gotten to watch her for so long in all of these different offices to lead, you know, in small ways when not a ton of people were paying attention, maybe outside of our state, and in these massive ways, you know, for all of us across the nation now, and it's I don't know, it's like so silly, not her mom, but I have this very intense like sense of pride. I'm like, that's our girl, that's our attorney general, and.

You know she is well, and you think about it, what like it's like, I definitely one hundred percent agree with you. I think of it in terms of being a woman. I think of it in terms of being a black woman, a woman of color, O first generation woman, you know, which as a child of immigrants. You know, I connect. I really do see my story when I see her up.

You know she is well, and you think about it, what like it's like, I definitely one hundred percent agree with you. I think of it in terms of being a woman. I think of it in terms of being a black woman, a woman of color, O first generation woman, you know, which as a child of immigrants. You know, I connect. I really do see my story when I see her up.

There to.

There to.

What it takes to carve out a life for yourself as immigrants in America, and that all you want really is just to see the American dream made possible for your own children. My mother growing up. My American dream is for you people to live your dream. That's that's the goal. That's the simple goal. And for her to have not only met it, but you know, multiplied at times one thousand, is just a testament to her strength or intelligence, her ability, her capability, her readiness. You know, somebody who has been a courtroom prosecutor, elevated to district attorney, elevated to attorney general, elevated. And by the way, when I say elevated, it's elected, really yes, elected to the office of US Senator, which is in itself as a black woman is underrepresented, and then finally elected to the office of Vice president, and now seeking the votes and election of president. You know, in a space where that just has not been done, It hasn't happened. There hasn't never been a female president yet. And that she has all of these high, high elevated marks on her resume and experience as compared to the other side. I think also women that resumes with a lot of women as well. How hard you have to work to even be seen. Yes, you're nineteen thousand points of experience on your resume and still be questioned yes.

What it takes to carve out a life for yourself as immigrants in America, and that all you want really is just to see the American dream made possible for your own children. My mother growing up. My American dream is for you people to live your dream. That's that's the goal. That's the simple goal. And for her to have not only met it, but you know, multiplied at times one thousand, is just a testament to her strength or intelligence, her ability, her capability, her readiness. You know, somebody who has been a courtroom prosecutor, elevated to district attorney, elevated to attorney general, elevated. And by the way, when I say elevated, it's elected, really yes, elected to the office of US Senator, which is in itself as a black woman is underrepresented, and then finally elected to the office of Vice president, and now seeking the votes and election of president. You know, in a space where that just has not been done, It hasn't happened. There hasn't never been a female president yet. And that she has all of these high, high elevated marks on her resume and experience as compared to the other side. I think also women that resumes with a lot of women as well. How hard you have to work to even be seen. Yes, you're nineteen thousand points of experience on your resume and still be questioned yes.

Oh well, I mean I think I think today we're what fifty days out on the day of recording together, so let's keep our feet on the gas America. So it's it's a perfect kind of transition point because the usual first question I like to ask people is this, And we're talking about in your answer to the last question, some of the way that you grew up. And I think about this a lot because I get to sit down with people when you're so known for something or so many things as you are, and I like to know who you were before we all knew you. And I wonder if you could, you know, jumped into the space time continuum and sit down with your eight year old self, would you see this version of yourself in her? Or did everything following the path of your life wind up surprising you? Or is it maybe a little bit of both.

Oh well, I mean I think I think today we're what fifty days out on the day of recording together, so let's keep our feet on the gas America. So it's it's a perfect kind of transition point because the usual first question I like to ask people is this, And we're talking about in your answer to the last question, some of the way that you grew up. And I think about this a lot because I get to sit down with people when you're so known for something or so many things as you are, and I like to know who you were before we all knew you. And I wonder if you could, you know, jumped into the space time continuum and sit down with your eight year old self, would you see this version of yourself in her? Or did everything following the path of your life wind up surprising you? Or is it maybe a little bit of both.

I would say a little bit of both. I am, thankfully a lot calmer than I was. Anyone would tell you my siblings, any person, I was very precocious, wild imagination thought. But that part I think is still true. You know, I've always thought anything is possible. Anything. I still think that. Maybe that's dangerous, I don't know, but I think anything is possible. And so I'm glad that part of myself still exists. But oh man, when I was a kid, I was like ripping. I was like, good on, you know what I mean, every all of those idea. I was like, let's drive them off, you know, like let's make a parachute out of our bed sheets and jump off the roof. And it's like no, no, no, no, no, Like you know, that actually doesn't work. Little girl, You know, That's that's what I'm talking about, you know a little bit of like what is it Ramona Quimby? If you ever read those books, He's Ramona Quimby. I had a lot of romonic Q. Wimby and me when I was little. And but yeah, but I also believed anything was possible. Something that was told to me by my mom, my mom an example to me by her as well. Right over here you can't quite see it, but like this little piece of wood that's back there is a little quote of hers as a quote of hers that she used to say to my siblings and I our whole lives, and it was I've never heard of nothing coming from hard work and the living, breathing example of that to me, and it stuck with all of my siblings, and when she said it to me before I moved to New York, when I first started out, it really stuck like gum to my bones, like I've seen this woman do this, and I'm just gonna have to work harder than I've ever worked before to try and make this happen if I'm serious, Because I think she knows what she's talking about, and I think I would say that is like something that's always been a part of me, like just like, let's get down and dirty and work with this.

I would say a little bit of both. I am, thankfully a lot calmer than I was. Anyone would tell you my siblings, any person, I was very precocious, wild imagination thought. But that part I think is still true. You know, I've always thought anything is possible. Anything. I still think that. Maybe that's dangerous, I don't know, but I think anything is possible. And so I'm glad that part of myself still exists. But oh man, when I was a kid, I was like ripping. I was like, good on, you know what I mean, every all of those idea. I was like, let's drive them off, you know, like let's make a parachute out of our bed sheets and jump off the roof. And it's like no, no, no, no, no, Like you know, that actually doesn't work. Little girl, You know, That's that's what I'm talking about, you know a little bit of like what is it Ramona Quimby? If you ever read those books, He's Ramona Quimby. I had a lot of romonic Q. Wimby and me when I was little. And but yeah, but I also believed anything was possible. Something that was told to me by my mom, my mom an example to me by her as well. Right over here you can't quite see it, but like this little piece of wood that's back there is a little quote of hers as a quote of hers that she used to say to my siblings and I our whole lives, and it was I've never heard of nothing coming from hard work and the living, breathing example of that to me, and it stuck with all of my siblings, and when she said it to me before I moved to New York, when I first started out, it really stuck like gum to my bones, like I've seen this woman do this, and I'm just gonna have to work harder than I've ever worked before to try and make this happen if I'm serious, Because I think she knows what she's talking about, and I think I would say that is like something that's always been a part of me, like just like, let's get down and dirty and work with this.

Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. Well, And I imagine that that is so indicative of who she was and her spirit and also, as you mentioned earlier, part of a thing that I think any child of immigrants goes, Oh yeah, that kind of work ethic, that willing to do what it takes, and then some it is something I think so many people who come here share, and I wonder what for you growing up, and you know, before you moved to New York and your Massachusetts suburb was like you know, I know you talk in the book about how there weren't many people who looked like you where you grew up, and probably not a lot of people who came from where your parents came from. And were you always aware of that experience of being an immigrant family in your community.

Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. Well, And I imagine that that is so indicative of who she was and her spirit and also, as you mentioned earlier, part of a thing that I think any child of immigrants goes, Oh yeah, that kind of work ethic, that willing to do what it takes, and then some it is something I think so many people who come here share, and I wonder what for you growing up, and you know, before you moved to New York and your Massachusetts suburb was like you know, I know you talk in the book about how there weren't many people who looked like you where you grew up, and probably not a lot of people who came from where your parents came from. And were you always aware of that experience of being an immigrant family in your community.

Yeah, definitely, so definitely always aware. I remember, and I'm still friends with one of my neighbors, Karen Lung. She lives here in La too, and her she was first gen. She is first gen too. Her family's from China, and she lived around the corner. And my best friend, Simmy was let's girl right here. Oh, Simmy also first Jen her family from India. We've been friends since thirteen. And that was it in our town. Maybe in my grade, I should say, that was it. I have one more girl, and that was it, you know, like very very very small, few spatterings, and none of them African, none of them Nigerian, you know, and so it was it was you are aware as you're unpacking your lunch and everybody's like, what's that, you know, and You're like it's Choe Off Race and it's delicious, you know, you know, it's amazing delicious, It's delicious. You know, I mean really just want like Peb and Jay like everybody else. You know, it's from it's that wide to them getting more granular too, quite literally, you know, something as mundane as wanting to talk about hair or you know, there's you remember, Disney used to have like on Sunday, like Disney movies like Made for Sunday Night Night, I forget what it's called, and Wonder World World of Disney or something like this, and you know, everybody would watch all the Disney things. And then this one that came out called Polly that was like an all black adaptation of Pollyanna that I watched an all a family watch. When you come to school and you're like, did you guys watch Polly last night? And they're like, no, what's that? And you're just curious why no one tuned in to watch that one but tuned into the four before that, you know, to then as real as the experiences that we talk about today in culture, you know, just your family is walking in the neighborhood, you have an honor uncle visiting and people aren't familiar with who they are, and then all of a sudden the police show up, and you know, things like this, You know you're so you have alerts that are making you aware along the way. I'm I'm different for some people here, but also then some amazing people who are celebrating you in that difference. Also something that I'm also grateful or grateful for that there were some people in our community and in my life friends of mine as well, who saw that difference, celebrated it and really were, you know, protectors for my parents, me and my siblings to help us sort of shuttle through and get through at points. But yeah, I think every kid just wants to fit in, surpritinly whatever your difference is. Yeah, and you're just trying to find your space in the world. But I'm thankful that I did discover and learn that, you know, my differences are important, and I'm really grateful it's taught like to hold on to them, whether that's my name, whether that's my gap, you know, all these things.

Yeah, definitely, so definitely always aware. I remember, and I'm still friends with one of my neighbors, Karen Lung. She lives here in La too, and her she was first gen. She is first gen too. Her family's from China, and she lived around the corner. And my best friend, Simmy was let's girl right here. Oh, Simmy also first Jen her family from India. We've been friends since thirteen. And that was it in our town. Maybe in my grade, I should say, that was it. I have one more girl, and that was it, you know, like very very very small, few spatterings, and none of them African, none of them Nigerian, you know, and so it was it was you are aware as you're unpacking your lunch and everybody's like, what's that, you know, and You're like it's Choe Off Race and it's delicious, you know, you know, it's amazing delicious, It's delicious. You know, I mean really just want like Peb and Jay like everybody else. You know, it's from it's that wide to them getting more granular too, quite literally, you know, something as mundane as wanting to talk about hair or you know, there's you remember, Disney used to have like on Sunday, like Disney movies like Made for Sunday Night Night, I forget what it's called, and Wonder World World of Disney or something like this, and you know, everybody would watch all the Disney things. And then this one that came out called Polly that was like an all black adaptation of Pollyanna that I watched an all a family watch. When you come to school and you're like, did you guys watch Polly last night? And they're like, no, what's that? And you're just curious why no one tuned in to watch that one but tuned into the four before that, you know, to then as real as the experiences that we talk about today in culture, you know, just your family is walking in the neighborhood, you have an honor uncle visiting and people aren't familiar with who they are, and then all of a sudden the police show up, and you know, things like this, You know you're so you have alerts that are making you aware along the way. I'm I'm different for some people here, but also then some amazing people who are celebrating you in that difference. Also something that I'm also grateful or grateful for that there were some people in our community and in my life friends of mine as well, who saw that difference, celebrated it and really were, you know, protectors for my parents, me and my siblings to help us sort of shuttle through and get through at points. But yeah, I think every kid just wants to fit in, surpritinly whatever your difference is. Yeah, and you're just trying to find your space in the world. But I'm thankful that I did discover and learn that, you know, my differences are important, and I'm really grateful it's taught like to hold on to them, whether that's my name, whether that's my gap, you know, all these things.

Yeah, I think about that a lot when you smile, and like friends of mine who have the most arrestingly beautiful facial characteristic like your gap, and I think, like, God, I'm so relieved that not everyone's been convinced to erase their uniqueness. I didn't get a cool gap. I had to get braces because my canine teeth came in up here, and I.

Yeah, I think about that a lot when you smile, and like friends of mine who have the most arrestingly beautiful facial characteristic like your gap, and I think, like, God, I'm so relieved that not everyone's been convinced to erase their uniqueness. I didn't get a cool gap. I had to get braces because my canine teeth came in up here, and I.

Was like, it was, I'll find you a photo.

Was like, it was, I'll find you a photo.

Sometimes deeply, deeply not cute, deeply needed to be fixed. But I just like, I don't know, I was always struck. Lauren Hutton said this thing a long time ago.

Sometimes deeply, deeply not cute, deeply needed to be fixed. But I just like, I don't know, I was always struck. Lauren Hutton said this thing a long time ago.

That was it her?

That was it her?

Or was it Jamie Lee Curtis. One of them said something about how they were afraid that given the sort of culture we find ourselves in, with everybody getting so much done to themselves, they said, you know, I think we're erasing a whole generation of beauty.

Or was it Jamie Lee Curtis. One of them said something about how they were afraid that given the sort of culture we find ourselves in, with everybody getting so much done to themselves, they said, you know, I think we're erasing a whole generation of beauty.

Oh yes.

Oh yes.

To be given the ability to cherish who you are in your uniqueness, I think is so important when you're young, because everyone gets picked on for whatever reason. They might be different when we're young, because kids are amazing and they're also so mean, and it's like you grow up and the thing you get picked on for is the thing that becomes the most beautiful and celebrated about you. And I don't know, I love that. I love hearing about the kind of household you grew up in where you were. Yes, of course you were aware, but it seems like you really were given an awareness of the whole spectrum of experience from what was hard to what was beautiful, and you were always taught to hold on to yourself in it. And that's so cool.

To be given the ability to cherish who you are in your uniqueness, I think is so important when you're young, because everyone gets picked on for whatever reason. They might be different when we're young, because kids are amazing and they're also so mean, and it's like you grow up and the thing you get picked on for is the thing that becomes the most beautiful and celebrated about you. And I don't know, I love that. I love hearing about the kind of household you grew up in where you were. Yes, of course you were aware, but it seems like you really were given an awareness of the whole spectrum of experience from what was hard to what was beautiful, and you were always taught to hold on to yourself in it. And that's so cool.

Yeah, you know, I think, I mean, it's like not to talk so much about her, but I mean, I'm happy to talk about my mom all the time. But it's like, you know, she was coming from a place where a gap is a sign of beauty in Africa, so she not getting my issue, you know, And I was I was begging her for braces and my team are perfectly fine, you know, like there's there, there's nothing there except that I have a gap. And she'd be like, oozo, don't you know that in Nigeria a gap is a sign of beauty. And I was like, we live in medfield messages as you mom exactly then you know what I mean, like that kind of a thing. But thank god, she was like really insistent on it, because she would go on and she's like everyone in our family, my family has what she coined a'm you all cool, which is her maiden name. Gap Everyone has it and I don't have it, and I wish I had it, and it's like, thank god I didn't, because I grew up and I fell in love with my smiles. I even have a hard time now so they honestly, like on the carpet sometimes when it's like giving fear space, like because for so many years I'm not checking. For so many years when I was a kid, I would not smile a closed mouth smile like this is my face like that, just because I didn't like it. And then just because of a photographer for my senior high school pictures said I think you have a beautiful smile. It changed my whole world to the point I started smiling all the time. And now I'm on carpets and I'm trying to give like a fierce faith. I can't because I love to smile. Now I feel like I'm making up for lost smiles, you know, likes of just not doing it that. I'm like, I love my smile now, and I'm so thankful that she didn't let my insecurity, let my difference dictate the woman I would become. She was like, no, you're standing that and You're going to fall in love with yourself.

Yeah, you know, I think, I mean, it's like not to talk so much about her, but I mean, I'm happy to talk about my mom all the time. But it's like, you know, she was coming from a place where a gap is a sign of beauty in Africa, so she not getting my issue, you know, And I was I was begging her for braces and my team are perfectly fine, you know, like there's there, there's nothing there except that I have a gap. And she'd be like, oozo, don't you know that in Nigeria a gap is a sign of beauty. And I was like, we live in medfield messages as you mom exactly then you know what I mean, like that kind of a thing. But thank god, she was like really insistent on it, because she would go on and she's like everyone in our family, my family has what she coined a'm you all cool, which is her maiden name. Gap Everyone has it and I don't have it, and I wish I had it, and it's like, thank god I didn't, because I grew up and I fell in love with my smiles. I even have a hard time now so they honestly, like on the carpet sometimes when it's like giving fear space, like because for so many years I'm not checking. For so many years when I was a kid, I would not smile a closed mouth smile like this is my face like that, just because I didn't like it. And then just because of a photographer for my senior high school pictures said I think you have a beautiful smile. It changed my whole world to the point I started smiling all the time. And now I'm on carpets and I'm trying to give like a fierce faith. I can't because I love to smile. Now I feel like I'm making up for lost smiles, you know, likes of just not doing it that. I'm like, I love my smile now, and I'm so thankful that she didn't let my insecurity, let my difference dictate the woman I would become. She was like, no, you're standing that and You're going to fall in love with yourself.

That's so special, And I think about what that gives you too. You know, as you begin to shift your experience and then you're going to leave home and you do as you said, move to New York to try to do this thing. And you know you were working as an actress in the theater. I know that, and I love these stories that right before you booked Oranges the New Black, after the full journey, you were like this close to quitting and then you booked the show.

That's so special, And I think about what that gives you too. You know, as you begin to shift your experience and then you're going to leave home and you do as you said, move to New York to try to do this thing. And you know you were working as an actress in the theater. I know that, and I love these stories that right before you booked Oranges the New Black, after the full journey, you were like this close to quitting and then you booked the show.

Were you did you book that in New York?

Were you did you book that in New York?

Had you moved to la Like, how did we get from this aha moment at the end of high school to you almost left the industry and here we are today?

Had you moved to la Like, how did we get from this aha moment at the end of high school to you almost left the industry and here we are today?

Right? I booked it in New York. I had been a play and the manager I was working with at the time she I had always let me start with. I had always wanted to do film and television, but I just had never again, I had not seen anyone like myself in that space, so I didn't I didn't feel invited to the table in a way that made me feel like it was even worth giving it a go. And in the theater space, I felt like I saw more, a little bit more of myself, so I was comfortable there. So anyway, so I started working with a manager who saw me in the play I was doing at the time, and she was from Hollywood.

Right? I booked it in New York. I had been a play and the manager I was working with at the time she I had always let me start with. I had always wanted to do film and television, but I just had never again, I had not seen anyone like myself in that space, so I didn't I didn't feel invited to the table in a way that made me feel like it was even worth giving it a go. And in the theater space, I felt like I saw more, a little bit more of myself, so I was comfortable there. So anyway, so I started working with a manager who saw me in the play I was doing at the time, and she was from Hollywood.

Oh God.

Oh God.

He said that she thought I should give it a try to do film and television. And honestly, I genuinely believe it's because she was from Hollywood that I was like, she must know something like that made me get just like an inch more confidence. So I started auditioning for film and television that summer. She said, We're not going to audition for any place, just film and television. And at that point in my career, I was making a living doing theater, not a fancy living or anything, just but up my look, you know. Like, so I was watching my nose for all of my auditions go up and my bank account going down, and I was really doubting, Like I just did not think. I thought it was right. Honestly, I thought it was right in not try having tried, like this is exactly how I thought it was going to go, and this is how it's going. And you know, I had reached the point where I was like, it's time to get off this you know, this boat, off this ship and try something else. In tears, I prayed up and said I was going to go to law school become alwayer because that's what I thought. I was going to do my whole life anyway. And I thought it was gonna be a lobbyist because I loved political science. That's gonna moved to DC and be a lobbyist. I had no idea lobby And then I got home, ordered sushi, ordered to my sister to come over because I was going to tell her first, and I was gonna quit. It was a Friday on Monday. I was gonna call my manager and my agent at the time and tell them that I was done. And then five forty three pm exactly, I'll never forget it. On that Friday in September, my phone rang and I got the job for Oranges a New Black, and Wow, my life has never been the same.

He said that she thought I should give it a try to do film and television. And honestly, I genuinely believe it's because she was from Hollywood that I was like, she must know something like that made me get just like an inch more confidence. So I started auditioning for film and television that summer. She said, We're not going to audition for any place, just film and television. And at that point in my career, I was making a living doing theater, not a fancy living or anything, just but up my look, you know. Like, so I was watching my nose for all of my auditions go up and my bank account going down, and I was really doubting, Like I just did not think. I thought it was right. Honestly, I thought it was right in not try having tried, like this is exactly how I thought it was going to go, and this is how it's going. And you know, I had reached the point where I was like, it's time to get off this you know, this boat, off this ship and try something else. In tears, I prayed up and said I was going to go to law school become alwayer because that's what I thought. I was going to do my whole life anyway. And I thought it was gonna be a lobbyist because I loved political science. That's gonna moved to DC and be a lobbyist. I had no idea lobby And then I got home, ordered sushi, ordered to my sister to come over because I was going to tell her first, and I was gonna quit. It was a Friday on Monday. I was gonna call my manager and my agent at the time and tell them that I was done. And then five forty three pm exactly, I'll never forget it. On that Friday in September, my phone rang and I got the job for Oranges a New Black, and Wow, my life has never been the same.

Rightly, we'll be back in just a minute. After a few words from our favorite sponsors. I had to really think about this because we forget that this was one of the first shows on Netflix. It wasn't this streaming juggernaut yet, you know, it was the company that started with DVDs. They would mail you of movies you could watch. Now, I think we almost take for granted how much content is available. And you, ladies, I mean, you blew open the world of television, of who got to be on TV, of what kinds of stories got to be told on TV. It was so of color, it was so queer.

Rightly, we'll be back in just a minute. After a few words from our favorite sponsors. I had to really think about this because we forget that this was one of the first shows on Netflix. It wasn't this streaming juggernaut yet, you know, it was the company that started with DVDs. They would mail you of movies you could watch. Now, I think we almost take for granted how much content is available. And you, ladies, I mean, you blew open the world of television, of who got to be on TV, of what kinds of stories got to be told on TV. It was so of color, it was so queer.

It was so.

It was so.

Like, I can't even explain it, like the breath of fresh air. I felt beginning to watch you all on that show, and I was like, Oh, the things that feel the most sacred as a storyteller really can happen. Was it incredible? Did you have any idea how big it would be? Or was the sort of explosion of it a shock to you as well?

Like, I can't even explain it, like the breath of fresh air. I felt beginning to watch you all on that show, and I was like, Oh, the things that feel the most sacred as a storyteller really can happen. Was it incredible? Did you have any idea how big it would be? Or was the sort of explosion of it a shock to you as well?

Oh it's total shock, a total shock. And you have to know this too, write in your own experience that it's like you can't you make the thing and you don't know what it's going to be or not be. And I mean, at this point, like to your point, it's like Netflix, wasn't I thought it was a web series if.

Oh it's total shock, a total shock. And you have to know this too, write in your own experience that it's like you can't you make the thing and you don't know what it's going to be or not be. And I mean, at this point, like to your point, it's like Netflix, wasn't I thought it was a web series if.

You're asking me, And I was like a short film on YouTube exactly.

You're asking me, And I was like a short film on YouTube exactly.

I was like YouTube, Like people were asking me. I was like I don't know where it's gonna be a YouTube, you know, like that sort of thing. So I had no idea whatsoever. I only one of my castmates, can I recall, so Lenis Leva, who called it like early. She called it early. She was like, I think this is gonna be good. And I remember sitting with her being like, why what makes you think? Then she's like, I don't know.

I was like YouTube, Like people were asking me. I was like I don't know where it's gonna be a YouTube, you know, like that sort of thing. So I had no idea whatsoever. I only one of my castmates, can I recall, so Lenis Leva, who called it like early. She called it early. She was like, I think this is gonna be good. And I remember sitting with her being like, why what makes you think? Then she's like, I don't know.

I just I just have a feeling.

I just I just have a feeling.

She's like, it's step a feeling. And I was like, Okay, we're gonna be massive on YouTube, you know, like this is gonna be great, you know, like cool. No idea, but I did know that I had never seen done anything like this or seen stories like these told like I had never been in an experience before where I had seen so many different groups of women, types of women, eighs to shades, to energy, to identity to gender, all of it like I had never seen it, And that felt and told through stories that were exciting and inspiring as an actor, I had never had that before, and that was pretty cool, and I was just happy to be there, you know. Honestly, we all were. Frankly, we all were just really into it and stoked and to see like the full three sixties view of what it needs to be a woman, that it's like a narrow way. We'd seen stories told to watch it like wide and you know, for another group, yeah, was awesome.

She's like, it's step a feeling. And I was like, Okay, we're gonna be massive on YouTube, you know, like this is gonna be great, you know, like cool. No idea, but I did know that I had never seen done anything like this or seen stories like these told like I had never been in an experience before where I had seen so many different groups of women, types of women, eighs to shades, to energy, to identity to gender, all of it like I had never seen it, And that felt and told through stories that were exciting and inspiring as an actor, I had never had that before, and that was pretty cool, and I was just happy to be there, you know. Honestly, we all were. Frankly, we all were just really into it and stoked and to see like the full three sixties view of what it needs to be a woman, that it's like a narrow way. We'd seen stories told to watch it like wide and you know, for another group, yeah, was awesome.

And how did you This is just a nerdy actor to actor question. I'm like, how did you prepare for that role? You know? What was it like to try to figure out how to crack Suzanne?

And how did you This is just a nerdy actor to actor question. I'm like, how did you prepare for that role? You know? What was it like to try to figure out how to crack Suzanne?

Yeah? You know, for me, when I read the script originally and she's introduced, I remember I just thought it was a love story. I wasn't so focused on Okay, she's crazy, so now like let's play crazy. I was like, well, what does that even mean? You know, like because the description of her is like she's almost like you know, she's she's what it was like like a child like she had like a childlike element about hers. I remember was something in it the description, and I remember latching onto that, and that to me felt like innocence pure and that means all of her reactions are they are not the reactions of an adult, and maybe that might come across like different or crazy, and I just remember thinking that was my anchor, that she would do anything for love, and that was all I was concentrating on the rest. I was like, what, however it comes out, it will come out. But what she's trying to communicate is she does not play with the people. She loves anything to protect people. She loves anything, even if that seems off the rails to the outsider, makes perfect sense to her.

Yeah? You know, for me, when I read the script originally and she's introduced, I remember I just thought it was a love story. I wasn't so focused on Okay, she's crazy, so now like let's play crazy. I was like, well, what does that even mean? You know, like because the description of her is like she's almost like you know, she's she's what it was like like a child like she had like a childlike element about hers. I remember was something in it the description, and I remember latching onto that, and that to me felt like innocence pure and that means all of her reactions are they are not the reactions of an adult, and maybe that might come across like different or crazy, and I just remember thinking that was my anchor, that she would do anything for love, and that was all I was concentrating on the rest. I was like, what, however it comes out, it will come out. But what she's trying to communicate is she does not play with the people. She loves anything to protect people. She loves anything, even if that seems off the rails to the outsider, makes perfect sense to her.

I love that. And that gives you something too, especially in the world of TV, where no matter what is in the next script that you had no idea was coming, you have a kind of ground zero for her, no matter.

I love that. And that gives you something too, especially in the world of TV, where no matter what is in the next script that you had no idea was coming, you have a kind of ground zero for her, no matter.

What for yourself.

What for yourself.

Yes, wow, And then you go, I guess I'm just thinking my brain is, you know, giving me this sort of montage of scenes from that show and then scenes from in treatment and thinking about this completely different person you know that you got to play and and what a cool thing in a way to have to get inside, you know, the mind of someone like Suzanne and then to literally flip in the other direction and play the therapist who might treat someone like.

Yes, wow, And then you go, I guess I'm just thinking my brain is, you know, giving me this sort of montage of scenes from that show and then scenes from in treatment and thinking about this completely different person you know that you got to play and and what a cool thing in a way to have to get inside, you know, the mind of someone like Suzanne and then to literally flip in the other direction and play the therapist who might treat someone like.

Her exactly like to do that?

Her exactly like to do that?

Are you just binge watching Esther Perel and Doctor Tama or are you reading like the Body keeps the score?

Are you just binge watching Esther Perel and Doctor Tama or are you reading like the Body keeps the score?

How do you get into that headspace?

How do you get into that headspace?

Yes?

Yes?

Yes, yes, the body keeps the score and myself also being in therapy, although I was not using my therapy sessions, let me be clear for a character or study. But therapist is like, she's like, you're watching me exactly. No. I for that, I kind of thought of Brooke Taylor, my character and entreatment. I was like, as a container m her job is to whole. Everybody's gonna come in here and they are going to pour whatever whatever is in their cup into you. And what because I've I've often wondered what a hard job that must be to hold people's stuff. And we do it as actors, but short lived. For the Preach character, there's a time it's gonna we're gonna cut and then we get to put it down and move away from it when you know, use our tools to do that. And but that's also born out of imagination versus really meeting a person who is pouring into you their stuff. And so for me it became an exercise of coming in first with like a teacup to a jug to a Stanley cup, you know, like sometimes it just kept getting bigger and bigger. The cup and the work of what it must be to hold can be the container for other people's stuff while also going through your own, which was at the time she had her own stuff, and if it was just a strong reminder and one that I needed at that point in my life because I went into that job just after my mom moved to heaven, right after she moved to heaven, that you've got to deal with your stuff before you start trying to tackle anything else. Because and that's not to say that I did it right then, because I certainly didn't, and I'm still moving through. But you got to deal with your stuff and make sure you have your broom and try and sweep up as much as you can on your side of the street or else. This is going to be like a total mess. And I feel that even now more strongly now having had my daughter m Yeah, that it's like all of the stuff, like you, I don't want to give her my stuff.

Yes, yes, the body keeps the score and myself also being in therapy, although I was not using my therapy sessions, let me be clear for a character or study. But therapist is like, she's like, you're watching me exactly. No. I for that, I kind of thought of Brooke Taylor, my character and entreatment. I was like, as a container m her job is to whole. Everybody's gonna come in here and they are going to pour whatever whatever is in their cup into you. And what because I've I've often wondered what a hard job that must be to hold people's stuff. And we do it as actors, but short lived. For the Preach character, there's a time it's gonna we're gonna cut and then we get to put it down and move away from it when you know, use our tools to do that. And but that's also born out of imagination versus really meeting a person who is pouring into you their stuff. And so for me it became an exercise of coming in first with like a teacup to a jug to a Stanley cup, you know, like sometimes it just kept getting bigger and bigger. The cup and the work of what it must be to hold can be the container for other people's stuff while also going through your own, which was at the time she had her own stuff, and if it was just a strong reminder and one that I needed at that point in my life because I went into that job just after my mom moved to heaven, right after she moved to heaven, that you've got to deal with your stuff before you start trying to tackle anything else. Because and that's not to say that I did it right then, because I certainly didn't, and I'm still moving through. But you got to deal with your stuff and make sure you have your broom and try and sweep up as much as you can on your side of the street or else. This is going to be like a total mess. And I feel that even now more strongly now having had my daughter m Yeah, that it's like all of the stuff, like you, I don't want to give her my stuff.

Yeah, I think especially for women, you know, I don't think you can do all the big research on all the feelings and the therapy without coming across these incredible, you know, stories and proofs of this idea of generational inheritance, right and what we passed down and particularly this matrilineal Wine yep and I think so much about the way you talk about your mother's effect and impact on your life and the impact that then you have had for so long with these characters you play. You know, you've you've put yourself into these shows that come part of the zeitgeist, that represent people in situations and places we haven't seen before, that that are inherently you could say, pushing the envelope, creating progress, you could say political in simply existing. And I think about the ways that you use your platform to speak out for people. And you were doing all of this before you had your daughter, who you knew you were going to pass the world too. And I wonder if it does it all make sense to you now, like, oh, of course it was always for her, Or does it make you want to double down on who you are and how brave you are and and the person you are out in the world because of her?

Yeah, I think especially for women, you know, I don't think you can do all the big research on all the feelings and the therapy without coming across these incredible, you know, stories and proofs of this idea of generational inheritance, right and what we passed down and particularly this matrilineal Wine yep and I think so much about the way you talk about your mother's effect and impact on your life and the impact that then you have had for so long with these characters you play. You know, you've you've put yourself into these shows that come part of the zeitgeist, that represent people in situations and places we haven't seen before, that that are inherently you could say, pushing the envelope, creating progress, you could say political in simply existing. And I think about the ways that you use your platform to speak out for people. And you were doing all of this before you had your daughter, who you knew you were going to pass the world too. And I wonder if it does it all make sense to you now, like, oh, of course it was always for her, Or does it make you want to double down on who you are and how brave you are and and the person you are out in the world because of her?

Oh, me want to double down? It makes sense, But it makes me want to double down, especially now you know we open this conversation we're talking about like DNC. When I think about like the world and the world as it exists today and the world that could potentially exist once I moved to have it God willing, please take me down everybody. You know, Like, when I'm not here with her anymore, it's like, what am I going to leave her? Because I was left with the law and I do not want to leave her with less than I was given. Yeah, you know, Maya Angelou has a quote from her poem, has a line in her poem on the dusk on the dawn of morning, dusk of morning, excuse me, And the line says that our passages have been paid for. And my passage was paid for, and I want to do everything in my power to fight for the things that I believe in, to stand up to the people or ideas that counter the good of my child to ensure that her passage was paid for as well. You know, I'm ferocious about that, and I don't know that I knew that how ferocious I was, and I didn't need to be a mom to be that.

Oh, me want to double down? It makes sense, But it makes me want to double down, especially now you know we open this conversation we're talking about like DNC. When I think about like the world and the world as it exists today and the world that could potentially exist once I moved to have it God willing, please take me down everybody. You know, Like, when I'm not here with her anymore, it's like, what am I going to leave her? Because I was left with the law and I do not want to leave her with less than I was given. Yeah, you know, Maya Angelou has a quote from her poem, has a line in her poem on the dusk on the dawn of morning, dusk of morning, excuse me, And the line says that our passages have been paid for. And my passage was paid for, and I want to do everything in my power to fight for the things that I believe in, to stand up to the people or ideas that counter the good of my child to ensure that her passage was paid for as well. You know, I'm ferocious about that, and I don't know that I knew that how ferocious I was, and I didn't need to be a mom to be that.

Let me be here.

Let me be here.

We all have that, any person who has passion for the life of another person. But it has made me want to just make sure that I pour into her as I was poured into m.

We all have that, any person who has passion for the life of another person. But it has made me want to just make sure that I pour into her as I was poured into m.

HM and now for our sponsors. So when you think about that, you know, and you said earlier the book that you thought you were going to write changed in between deciding what the book was about and beginning to write it. Your mom was diagnosed. When you think about then having to set out to pour into these pages to make the road is good, which is also the meaning of your name, it feels really emotional just as a person talking to you about it. How did you begin to kind of make sense of, Oh, these are the things I have to write down. These are the stories I know I want to preserve because of course it's for the reader, but it's also for.

HM and now for our sponsors. So when you think about that, you know, and you said earlier the book that you thought you were going to write changed in between deciding what the book was about and beginning to write it. Your mom was diagnosed. When you think about then having to set out to pour into these pages to make the road is good, which is also the meaning of your name, it feels really emotional just as a person talking to you about it. How did you begin to kind of make sense of, Oh, these are the things I have to write down. These are the stories I know I want to preserve because of course it's for the reader, but it's also for.

You, Yeah, you know, I think for me. How I started to get the sense of what to write down and to include was first starting to think about what we're if we're going to stay with this, like road metaphor, right, what were the intersections in the road my mother's story crossed with mine in terms when she was a kid, my age, and my experiences those overlaps, And then where were those forks in the road where my life diverged from hers, or where I could clearly see like no, if I had done this way, life would have been totally different in a trip. But I went this way, and so I want to include those points in the story, and then I think the final piece was thinking about my name and its meaning. My name means the road is good, but what it's slightly more nuanced, and it means like the journey was worth It means like if you were to come to my house and we were supposed to meet at three, but you got a flat tire and then torrential rain came down, and oh, man, there's an accident on the side of the road and fifty car pile up and ran out again because you were in traffic so long, and now you're here at four thirty, an hour and a half late. But the sun suddenly came out and it's beautiful, and I would say, too came my goals or how was how was the trip? The journey? And you would say, oh, Zamaka, it was hard, but it's worth it because I'm here now with you. Is what it means. The journey here wasn't easy, It wasn't ave. The road is muddy and has potholes and and and you know it has gravel sometimes, but all of that was worth it because it brought me here. And that's why my parents named me that. You know, my mom, you can read people will read it in the book. It's like she survived polio. My mother survived the the Affrons civil war against her people, which she like worked in and like crazy capacity, you know, like for the government and for writers. She had been through a lot, you know, had been through a lot. And she said she was widowed at thirty six, you know, and then she still had me and was like it was all worth it because you're here.

You, Yeah, you know, I think for me. How I started to get the sense of what to write down and to include was first starting to think about what we're if we're going to stay with this, like road metaphor, right, what were the intersections in the road my mother's story crossed with mine in terms when she was a kid, my age, and my experiences those overlaps, And then where were those forks in the road where my life diverged from hers, or where I could clearly see like no, if I had done this way, life would have been totally different in a trip. But I went this way, and so I want to include those points in the story, and then I think the final piece was thinking about my name and its meaning. My name means the road is good, but what it's slightly more nuanced, and it means like the journey was worth It means like if you were to come to my house and we were supposed to meet at three, but you got a flat tire and then torrential rain came down, and oh, man, there's an accident on the side of the road and fifty car pile up and ran out again because you were in traffic so long, and now you're here at four thirty, an hour and a half late. But the sun suddenly came out and it's beautiful, and I would say, too came my goals or how was how was the trip? The journey? And you would say, oh, Zamaka, it was hard, but it's worth it because I'm here now with you. Is what it means. The journey here wasn't easy, It wasn't ave. The road is muddy and has potholes and and and you know it has gravel sometimes, but all of that was worth it because it brought me here. And that's why my parents named me that. You know, my mom, you can read people will read it in the book. It's like she survived polio. My mother survived the the Affrons civil war against her people, which she like worked in and like crazy capacity, you know, like for the government and for writers. She had been through a lot, you know, had been through a lot. And she said she was widowed at thirty six, you know, and then she still had me and was like it was all worth it because you're here.

I actually, it's funny. I took a I went back through my notes and I I was looking at really, I guess it's the preface of the book where you're explaining this. And the thing that I really love about it when you talk about the fact that it's so much more nuanced than all of it being good, right, is that you're you actually carry gratitude in the response, which is your name for the whole journey. Yeah, And I think to be able to see the purpose in the pain and be grateful for the joy and all all of it. You know, it's it's really everything you've ever been through that has brought you to this point that you are in your life. And I think when you can resoundingly lean into the gratitude for your journey and not be so mad about what was tough. Everything changes, yes, and it that that I believe is a magical experience as a human And that's what this book feels like for me as a reader. Like your whole book, your story and your mother's story are so incredibly unique. Obviously, I've never lived through a civil war, nor had pollio, but ah, like I see myself in this book. This this like beautiful, real, muddy humanness, and it's I don't know, it's really you know, I'm a I'm a nerd who likes to read, and this is it's really so tremendously special. I just really thank you for sharing in the way.

I actually, it's funny. I took a I went back through my notes and I I was looking at really, I guess it's the preface of the book where you're explaining this. And the thing that I really love about it when you talk about the fact that it's so much more nuanced than all of it being good, right, is that you're you actually carry gratitude in the response, which is your name for the whole journey. Yeah, And I think to be able to see the purpose in the pain and be grateful for the joy and all all of it. You know, it's it's really everything you've ever been through that has brought you to this point that you are in your life. And I think when you can resoundingly lean into the gratitude for your journey and not be so mad about what was tough. Everything changes, yes, and it that that I believe is a magical experience as a human And that's what this book feels like for me as a reader. Like your whole book, your story and your mother's story are so incredibly unique. Obviously, I've never lived through a civil war, nor had pollio, but ah, like I see myself in this book. This this like beautiful, real, muddy humanness, and it's I don't know, it's really you know, I'm a I'm a nerd who likes to read, and this is it's really so tremendously special. I just really thank you for sharing in the way.

They thank you, thank you. And it wasn't easy. You know, it's not easy. Thank you for that. Seriously, it wasn't easy because you know, you get uncomfortable wondering, like, oh my, you're saying these things out loud and so open sharing it with the world. But yeah, so open, and I'm not I share with my circle, but I'm not like a world chair typically And it's been which is probably why I have nerves going into its relief, because I like, is it possible to like not? But you know, it's not already no, but it's like it gave me such a release and a relief to put some of these things down on paper and to tell my truth in that way. And who and what Also like what a I didn't know it when it was happening, but like what a gift and come for stations and time I gave me, but also gave her to get to just talk about her life.

They thank you, thank you. And it wasn't easy. You know, it's not easy. Thank you for that. Seriously, it wasn't easy because you know, you get uncomfortable wondering, like, oh my, you're saying these things out loud and so open sharing it with the world. But yeah, so open, and I'm not I share with my circle, but I'm not like a world chair typically And it's been which is probably why I have nerves going into its relief, because I like, is it possible to like not? But you know, it's not already no, but it's like it gave me such a release and a relief to put some of these things down on paper and to tell my truth in that way. And who and what Also like what a I didn't know it when it was happening, but like what a gift and come for stations and time I gave me, but also gave her to get to just talk about her life.

And did getting to have these conversations with her, you know, whether you talk about how for her your your teeth or such a mark of beauty. You talk in the book about how for such a long time you wanted to change your name, you know, to Zoe because easy American assimilation story, And then there's so much about how, in whatever way you felt that you wanted to blend in, you've really taken up the mantle and standing out and being exactly who you are that I know is a life's work. But in having these conversations with her, do you feel like you got that that sort of confidence and purpose and sense of self like just high dose like mainline into the veins, like oh my god, this is why I'm here and this is my this is my whole destiny to be here and I'm seeing it in myself because of her.

And did getting to have these conversations with her, you know, whether you talk about how for her your your teeth or such a mark of beauty. You talk in the book about how for such a long time you wanted to change your name, you know, to Zoe because easy American assimilation story, And then there's so much about how, in whatever way you felt that you wanted to blend in, you've really taken up the mantle and standing out and being exactly who you are that I know is a life's work. But in having these conversations with her, do you feel like you got that that sort of confidence and purpose and sense of self like just high dose like mainline into the veins, like oh my god, this is why I'm here and this is my this is my whole destiny to be here and I'm seeing it in myself because of her.

Yes, absolutely, you know, like I feel like I've arrived now, you know, like I think, I think I didn't even realize. Whether it's like the quitting with Orange, whether it's my gap, whether it's my name, whether it's being the only you know Nigerians in our hometown. All of these things, whether it's hearing no, you know, all of these things were the walk along the road that we're making it hard, including having to figure out how to live without her, But all of that was worth it because I'm here now and it would not be where I am right now, in this space, in this moment in my life, able to hold my head up high proudly say that my name is Uzama with the fully open gap inside my mouth splintering my two front teeth, and say that proudly and say too that I am proud to be none yeah, my Aduba's daughter. That all of that had to happen for me to be able to say and do that.

Yes, absolutely, you know, like I feel like I've arrived now, you know, like I think, I think I didn't even realize. Whether it's like the quitting with Orange, whether it's my gap, whether it's my name, whether it's being the only you know Nigerians in our hometown. All of these things, whether it's hearing no, you know, all of these things were the walk along the road that we're making it hard, including having to figure out how to live without her, But all of that was worth it because I'm here now and it would not be where I am right now, in this space, in this moment in my life, able to hold my head up high proudly say that my name is Uzama with the fully open gap inside my mouth splintering my two front teeth, and say that proudly and say too that I am proud to be none yeah, my Aduba's daughter. That all of that had to happen for me to be able to say and do that.

Hm, that's so beautiful from this place, you know, this fullness. I know there's nerves obviously about about the book because it's you and your life and it's about to be out in the world. Do do you look around and immediately have a next drive, you know, some next motivation or are you really trying to just be present and relish in this moment and this feeling, or are you you know, every the accomplished woman that you are multitasking and doing it all at the same time.