Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome back to work in progress friends. I am so excited to sit down with one of my favorite personalities, comedians, storytellers, girlies. Today we are joined by Dylan mulvaney. She is here to talk about her new book, Paper Doll Notes from a Late Bloomer. In this book, Dylan pulls back the curtain on her life, from the it girl online lifestyle to witty and intimate reflections of her journey both pre and post transition, family school memories, dealing with the Internet, theater, manifesting, being a Broadway diva, all of it. Today, we are going to dig into the emotional journey of identity. We're gonna laugh quite a bit about how ridiculous life can be, and we're going to talk about why this book is a love letter to every single person who stands up for queer joy. Let's dive in with Dylan mlvany.

Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to work in progress. Welcome back to work in progress friends. I am so excited to sit down with one of my favorite personalities, comedians, storytellers, girlies. Today we are joined by Dylan mulvaney. She is here to talk about her new book, Paper Doll Notes from a Late Bloomer. In this book, Dylan pulls back the curtain on her life, from the it girl online lifestyle to witty and intimate reflections of her journey both pre and post transition, family school memories, dealing with the Internet, theater, manifesting, being a Broadway diva, all of it. Today, we are going to dig into the emotional journey of identity. We're gonna laugh quite a bit about how ridiculous life can be, and we're going to talk about why this book is a love letter to every single person who stands up for queer joy. Let's dive in with Dylan mlvany.

A. I'm here here, but it's funny because I feel we did just see each other two days ago. We did, but we didn't get enough air time.

A. I'm here here, but it's funny because I feel we did just see each other two days ago. We did, but we didn't get enough air time.

No, and that was also a bit of a whirlwind. It's such a great event.

No, and that was also a bit of a whirlwind. It's such a great event.

Yes, tell the people overwhelming. Tell people where we were.

Yes, tell the people overwhelming. Tell people where we were.

So we were at the Elton John Aids Foundation Giant Academy Awards fundraiser, amazing gala dinner.

So we were at the Elton John Aids Foundation Giant Academy Awards fundraiser, amazing gala dinner.

Yeah, chapel Roane. Oh my god, you've been to this before?

Yeah, chapel Roane. Oh my god, you've been to this before?

Yes?

Yes?

How many times? Uh?

How many times? Uh?

Three?

Three?

Maybe? Okay? I think this was my first one. I'm also really happy because I've been on a few podcasts lately where like they're like, this comes out in five months, but this one will actually come out soon so we can talk about it.

Maybe? Okay? I think this was my first one. I'm also really happy because I've been on a few podcasts lately where like they're like, this comes out in five months, but this one will actually come out soon so we can talk about it.

But that's because this is coming out.

But that's because this is coming out.

Because we're talking about my book, and my book comes out next week, and I'm so excited. I I'm sending you the whole package that's going to be coming with my lush bath bomb and everything.

Because we're talking about my book, and my book comes out next week, and I'm so excited. I I'm sending you the whole package that's going to be coming with my lush bath bomb and everything.

But you love a bath bomb.

But you love a bath bomb.

I'm upset. Do you take baths?

I'm upset. Do you take baths?

I should?

I should?

I can already take this. ADHD is going to be kicking in for both of us pretty soon.

I can already take this. ADHD is going to be kicking in for both of us pretty soon.

It's hard for me to sit in a bath.

It's hard for me to sit in a bath.

I well, yeah, I think that. I like to bring all my activities, so I like a book, I like to memorize lines in the bath. I like to I do a computer. But you can't learn the hard way. I've lost like maybe three phones in one laptop in the bathtub, dropped done, but you're alive. I'm here, Apple. That's the one thing that really got going is like if you if it goes in, you're not going to will survive.

I well, yeah, I think that. I like to bring all my activities, so I like a book, I like to memorize lines in the bath. I like to I do a computer. But you can't learn the hard way. I've lost like maybe three phones in one laptop in the bathtub, dropped done, but you're alive. I'm here, Apple. That's the one thing that really got going is like if you if it goes in, you're not going to will survive.

Yeah, okay, it's a glowing endorsement.

Yeah, okay, it's a glowing endorsement.

Really, but I feel like my voice is kind of starting to give Sophia Bush a little bit after our night out.

Really, but I feel like my voice is kind of starting to give Sophia Bush a little bit after our night out.

After night I turned into a pumpkin. And I don't know if it was the fact that I was wearing the biggest heels I've ever worn in my life, where if life has just been so intense, you know, in the current horror times that I'm emotionally exhausted, But once Chapel was done, it was like I ceased being plugged into the battery and I just I shut down and I had to.

After night I turned into a pumpkin. And I don't know if it was the fact that I was wearing the biggest heels I've ever worn in my life, where if life has just been so intense, you know, in the current horror times that I'm emotionally exhausted, But once Chapel was done, it was like I ceased being plugged into the battery and I just I shut down and I had to.

Go to bit you left that I was going to say, I didn't see you. But that was what was crazy about then A whole new group of people because there was the after party to the party, yes, and so it was like a whole new but we had been there for hours and hours and so that that was a lot in a good way. It was a lot and we're at the same table. We had some really cute people with us, cute unter twohand so adorable mckayl the Jay Rodriguez. Absolutely, Oh, I love seeing her. It's always so fun to see Bobby. Oh my god.

Go to bit you left that I was going to say, I didn't see you. But that was what was crazy about then A whole new group of people because there was the after party to the party, yes, and so it was like a whole new but we had been there for hours and hours and so that that was a lot in a good way. It was a lot and we're at the same table. We had some really cute people with us, cute unter twohand so adorable mckayl the Jay Rodriguez. Absolutely, Oh, I love seeing her. It's always so fun to see Bobby. Oh my god.

Yes, and you were you with who's your coworker that you are?

Yes, and you were you with who's your coworker that you are?

That was my manager, manager. Yes, he's so cute and such. He's like my best friend and manager.

That was my manager, manager. Yes, he's so cute and such. He's like my best friend and manager.

Yeah, he's so lovely. And then Ashland and I were there, and Renee, our sweet friend, Renee Stubbs came with us, and yeah, it was just a great night. We had a nice crew.

Yeah, he's so lovely. And then Ashland and I were there, and Renee, our sweet friend, Renee Stubbs came with us, and yeah, it was just a great night. We had a nice crew.

You know. What did bother me was that I didn't feel like people were lively enough for Chapel Rome. I didn't see enough dancing like people were in it. But I'm used to like thrusting my body for that h O T T O G. There wasn't a ton of room too.

You know. What did bother me was that I didn't feel like people were lively enough for Chapel Rome. I didn't see enough dancing like people were in it. But I'm used to like thrusting my body for that h O T T O G. There wasn't a ton of room too.

There wasn't a lot of room every I felt like we were doing very tiny.

There wasn't a lot of room every I felt like we were doing very tiny.

It was yeah, but I will say it felt like watching queer history like while them singing together. It was incredible, unreal. And I was standing next to her dad for a while and it was like watching him kind of like take it in was really sweet. Yeah.

It was yeah, but I will say it felt like watching queer history like while them singing together. It was incredible, unreal. And I was standing next to her dad for a while and it was like watching him kind of like take it in was really sweet. Yeah.

We talked a lot about it on Money Day after, you know, we were all kind of recapping the night and watching the way Elton looked at her and watching the way she was looking at Elton. It felt, yeah, like such a such a historic moment across these generations of queerness and activism and advocacy, and I don't know, it made me really emotional.

We talked a lot about it on Money Day after, you know, we were all kind of recapping the night and watching the way Elton looked at her and watching the way she was looking at Elton. It felt, yeah, like such a such a historic moment across these generations of queerness and activism and advocacy, and I don't know, it made me really emotional.

It was the that was where the gays were, like we were in that room. And I saw Chapel in twenty twenty three at the Wiltern in LA and the only thing that I could compare it to was that that scene in Rocketman where like everyone's in the doing the crocodile rock and everyone starts to float off the you know, like off their feet into the air. And that is how I felt at this concert of like, you know, maybe like nine hundred people watching Chapel and then now seeing her do that like it it kind of had that like she's now like my Elton John for so many people who have grew up with Elton John, and I just thought, oh that was fun. I had a good time too.

It was the that was where the gays were, like we were in that room. And I saw Chapel in twenty twenty three at the Wiltern in LA and the only thing that I could compare it to was that that scene in Rocketman where like everyone's in the doing the crocodile rock and everyone starts to float off the you know, like off their feet into the air. And that is how I felt at this concert of like, you know, maybe like nine hundred people watching Chapel and then now seeing her do that like it it kind of had that like she's now like my Elton John for so many people who have grew up with Elton John, and I just thought, oh that was fun. I had a good time too.

Did you like the party?

Did you like the party?

I liked the party, I got to see lots of friends, and but I went to a West Hollywood gay bar afterwards, which is it's a rare occasion that I do that.

I liked the party, I got to see lots of friends, and but I went to a West Hollywood gay bar afterwards, which is it's a rare occasion that I do that.

But you did it.

But you did it.

I was in Taco Bell at the end of the night. Did you order food?

I was in Taco Bell at the end of the night. Did you order food?

I was honestly so tired that I didn't even order late night tacos, which is rare for me.

I was honestly so tired that I didn't even order late night tacos, which is rare for me.

Where would you order from?

Where would you order from?

Oh my god? So there's so many good places in La There's we have Tacos nineteen eighty six. We have Weisawtos. We have Cactus, which is really my.

Oh my god? So there's so many good places in La There's we have Tacos nineteen eighty six. We have Weisawtos. We have Cactus, which is really my.

I don't know any og. I just get Taco Bell. Isn't that so sad? Oh?

I don't know any og. I just get Taco Bell. Isn't that so sad? Oh?

I have to take you?

I have to take you?

Yeah, you're going to say this.

Yeah, you're going to say this.

We have a tour.

We have a tour.

We have a tour and now we have a little time. There's Taco Do's events now. Yes, And I think that yesterday was it was a bad hangover day for me. Today I feel alive. I feel like I want to be a little more selective about not going to too much stuff. Yeah, where did I saw you again? On? What was the other thing that I saw? I can't Oh? Women of the Year? Yeah time, Oh my god? And that one was uh Levey or you know the singer the uh Yes.

We have a tour and now we have a little time. There's Taco Do's events now. Yes, And I think that yesterday was it was a bad hangover day for me. Today I feel alive. I feel like I want to be a little more selective about not going to too much stuff. Yeah, where did I saw you again? On? What was the other thing that I saw? I can't Oh? Women of the Year? Yeah time, Oh my god? And that one was uh Levey or you know the singer the uh Yes.

She was wonderful.

She was wonderful.

He did that song keep on Going with Your Crazy Dreams, like to your it was like to your twelve year old self, I think, And I was like, I don't think my twelve year old self would have ever imagined being at this like Women of the Year for Time gala with like all these icons. Like I was like kept flashing because I felt really tired, and I was like, oh do I want to go to this? And I looked around and was like, Oh my god, how lucky am I to be in this room with all these gals.

He did that song keep on Going with Your Crazy Dreams, like to your it was like to your twelve year old self, I think, And I was like, I don't think my twelve year old self would have ever imagined being at this like Women of the Year for Time gala with like all these icons. Like I was like kept flashing because I felt really tired, and I was like, oh do I want to go to this? And I looked around and was like, Oh my god, how lucky am I to be in this room with all these gals.

Yeah, it was so special. It's really cool, And I want I think about that for you and what an amazing sort of connection to that song, because you know, we talked about this a little bit last time you came on the bus.

Yeah, it was so special. It's really cool, And I want I think about that for you and what an amazing sort of connection to that song, because you know, we talked about this a little bit last time you came on the bus.

It was basically a year ago. Yeah, I feel like I'm part of the pod family.

It was basically a year ago. Yeah, I feel like I'm part of the pod family.

Now are and I love it. But I you know, I always think about how you would interact with your younger self. And one of the things that I think is so beautiful in the book is that you actually dedicated it to your oldest best friend Lily Hi Lily, and I loved watching you tell her that the book is dedicated to her. You know, you wrote the girl who helped show me the way. What what does it feel like now to sort of look back at your younger self, you know, the girl that Leve is saying to the girl that you grew up with, and Lily a girl that she always recognized in you, even perhaps before you did. It must be so surreal from this place to look back at it.

Now are and I love it. But I you know, I always think about how you would interact with your younger self. And one of the things that I think is so beautiful in the book is that you actually dedicated it to your oldest best friend Lily Hi Lily, and I loved watching you tell her that the book is dedicated to her. You know, you wrote the girl who helped show me the way. What what does it feel like now to sort of look back at your younger self, you know, the girl that Leve is saying to the girl that you grew up with, and Lily a girl that she always recognized in you, even perhaps before you did. It must be so surreal from this place to look back at it.

Well, I think that so little of like what's happening right now feels like normal, And it still feels like I'm either living in a dreamer or a nightmare. And Lily is like the one constant that like when I'm around her, it reminds me of what life looked like before, not only transition, but like this industry and in this town, and having her here with me, going to these events, you know, being my plus one is like it's a dream. We met when we were ten doing high school musical. She was in the basketball ensemble. I was Ryan, and she was pissed that she wasn't Sharpey. But I think that like having that person that has known you longer than you know anyone, and has loved you through all the different chapters. I think it feels really good because I feel like I'm still constantly meeting people trying to like either you know, convince them of what it is that I want to do or who I am or what my identity should look like for them, because it's the way that I see myself. But for her, I don't have there's no explanation necessary. Who is your lily like from back in the day.

Well, I think that so little of like what's happening right now feels like normal, And it still feels like I'm either living in a dreamer or a nightmare. And Lily is like the one constant that like when I'm around her, it reminds me of what life looked like before, not only transition, but like this industry and in this town, and having her here with me, going to these events, you know, being my plus one is like it's a dream. We met when we were ten doing high school musical. She was in the basketball ensemble. I was Ryan, and she was pissed that she wasn't Sharpey. But I think that like having that person that has known you longer than you know anyone, and has loved you through all the different chapters. I think it feels really good because I feel like I'm still constantly meeting people trying to like either you know, convince them of what it is that I want to do or who I am or what my identity should look like for them, because it's the way that I see myself. But for her, I don't have there's no explanation necessary. Who is your lily like from back in the day.

Oh my gosh, I moved a lot as a kid, and so I we don't have so many people who stretch like way way wait, probably I don't really have anybody before middle school. And there's four of us from my middle school in high school that are still really close. But my like my my Lily is my best friend. Yeah, you know, we've been at it for almost twenty years together.

Oh my gosh, I moved a lot as a kid, and so I we don't have so many people who stretch like way way wait, probably I don't really have anybody before middle school. And there's four of us from my middle school in high school that are still really close. But my like my my Lily is my best friend. Yeah, you know, we've been at it for almost twenty years together.

And where'd you meet?

And where'd you meet?

We met at a conference way back in the day before they were cool or like branded, you.

We met at a conference way back in the day before they were cool or like branded, you.

Know, a conference queen. So yeah, bush, Well, that is one thing I will say I was thinking about when because you know, we talked about going to Paris together last year and oh was that even maybe was that before we did the podcast? Or I think it was alf. I think it was after we had a really fun trip to Paris for a conference and a lovely man that worked at CIA was there and he's like, you know who always will show up, you know when you ask her and when you need her for something is Sophia Bush. And so like you've been doing in this for a long time and the best way, and like Sowet, you really are someone that people trust and also that like you come through for people in really big ways.

Know, a conference queen. So yeah, bush, Well, that is one thing I will say I was thinking about when because you know, we talked about going to Paris together last year and oh was that even maybe was that before we did the podcast? Or I think it was alf. I think it was after we had a really fun trip to Paris for a conference and a lovely man that worked at CIA was there and he's like, you know who always will show up, you know when you ask her and when you need her for something is Sophia Bush. And so like you've been doing in this for a long time and the best way, and like Sowet, you really are someone that people trust and also that like you come through for people in really big ways.

I think showing up is really important. Ye, And it's certainly a love language for me. I know how meaningful it is when people do it for me. And I think you know the way Nia and I bonded and built our friendship, you know, out of that space, she cracked a joke like why is the girl from TV or taking notes like a court stenographer?

I think showing up is really important. Ye, And it's certainly a love language for me. I know how meaningful it is when people do it for me. And I think you know the way Nia and I bonded and built our friendship, you know, out of that space, she cracked a joke like why is the girl from TV or taking notes like a court stenographer?

Right?

Right?

And I looked back at her and I said, I went to journalisms called my notes are very good? Do you need a copy? And she was like yeah. And then we've been best friends ever since. And I think for us, we've always been really mission aligned. And it's weird to me when when mission isn't part of you know, someone's life or their their ethos, and I think it's probably why so many of us find each other, because yes, you want to be creative and tell stories and have joy, and you also want to make the world around you a little kinder.

And I looked back at her and I said, I went to journalisms called my notes are very good? Do you need a copy? And she was like yeah. And then we've been best friends ever since. And I think for us, we've always been really mission aligned. And it's weird to me when when mission isn't part of you know, someone's life or their their ethos, and I think it's probably why so many of us find each other, because yes, you want to be creative and tell stories and have joy, and you also want to make the world around you a little kinder.

And we want to have a reason. Like even it drives me crazy if I'm doing like a photo shoot and I don't understand, like who is this for? What is that? You know, it might just be a picture and I might look pretty, but like is there what else is here to like go off of? And no matter what it is, I think I want to figure out what is the reason behind something? And why am I doing it? Why am I writing this book? Why did you make this podcast? Why? Like there has to be something other than the surface behind it. Even if it is just to like bring a little joy or to make someone laugh like that that can be enough in some cases.

And we want to have a reason. Like even it drives me crazy if I'm doing like a photo shoot and I don't understand, like who is this for? What is that? You know, it might just be a picture and I might look pretty, but like is there what else is here to like go off of? And no matter what it is, I think I want to figure out what is the reason behind something? And why am I doing it? Why am I writing this book? Why did you make this podcast? Why? Like there has to be something other than the surface behind it. Even if it is just to like bring a little joy or to make someone laugh like that that can be enough in some cases.

But why did you want to write the book?

But why did you want to write the book?

I wanted to write the book. I think at first this book has become a lot of different things because I sold it really early on around days of Girlhood, and I thought I was gonna be this fluffy little piece of you know, fun for people to have on their coffee table about you know, diary entries for my first year, and I grew up reading like Chelsea Handler and all these really fun, you know, female comedian books. So I wanted to make people laugh and I wanted to be a little raunchy. And then once beer Gate happened, I knew that it needed to be something very different, and so it ended up being this thing that was deeply healing for me and I because I still in some ways had this like bowling ball sitting on my chest, not being able to articulate what happened or how I felt about it, and I wanted people to know because I built my platform on telling people things, and I think this feels like a much safer medium than social media does right now for me, And I think it's it's something that I never thought I would get to write a book and my life. So it's, i think, probably the thing I'm most proud of now and I'm scared because I love it and I don't know yet how the world is going to interpret that. But would you ever write a book?

I wanted to write the book. I think at first this book has become a lot of different things because I sold it really early on around days of Girlhood, and I thought I was gonna be this fluffy little piece of you know, fun for people to have on their coffee table about you know, diary entries for my first year, and I grew up reading like Chelsea Handler and all these really fun, you know, female comedian books. So I wanted to make people laugh and I wanted to be a little raunchy. And then once beer Gate happened, I knew that it needed to be something very different, and so it ended up being this thing that was deeply healing for me and I because I still in some ways had this like bowling ball sitting on my chest, not being able to articulate what happened or how I felt about it, and I wanted people to know because I built my platform on telling people things, and I think this feels like a much safer medium than social media does right now for me, And I think it's it's something that I never thought I would get to write a book and my life. So it's, i think, probably the thing I'm most proud of now and I'm scared because I love it and I don't know yet how the world is going to interpret that. But would you ever write a book?

I've been dodging the question for about eight years.

I've been dodging the question for about eight years.

And now you can't because you're holding my hand.

And now you can't because you're holding my hand.

Here we are. Yeah, people have approached me a few times about it, and I think I'm finally in a place where I'm ready to think about that. I think there was a time where it felt when my team first came to me with the idea. At first it felt a little premature, And now I think I understand that feeling better because I understand so many things about myself better. But it's terrifying to.

Here we are. Yeah, people have approached me a few times about it, and I think I'm finally in a place where I'm ready to think about that. I think there was a time where it felt when my team first came to me with the idea. At first it felt a little premature, And now I think I understand that feeling better because I understand so many things about myself better. But it's terrifying to.

Think about it. I think if you just don't frame it as like a memoir, like I always think.

Think about it. I think if you just don't frame it as like a memoir, like I always think.

Of, like, yeah, come on, like, we're not eighty right, I can't, I write, we can't.

Of, like, yeah, come on, like, we're not eighty right, I can't, I write, we can't.

And that's what I really because some people still classify this like as a memoir. So I'm so scared to say memoir, Like is that because I feel like I'm from like Wisconsin and I'm talking about this book that I wrote called Them, and it's not a memoir. It's like it's a hard word to say. Can you say memoir? Memoir?

And that's what I really because some people still classify this like as a memoir. So I'm so scared to say memoir, Like is that because I feel like I'm from like Wisconsin and I'm talking about this book that I wrote called Them, and it's not a memoir. It's like it's a hard word to say. Can you say memoir? Memoir?

Memoir?

Memoir?

Okay, Okay, we're settling on it.

Okay, Okay, we're settling on it.

It helps if you if you memo, yeah, if you try to sound a little bit like the like a phone sex operator memoir memoir me, it comes out easier.

It helps if you if you memo, yeah, if you try to sound a little bit like the like a phone sex operator memoir memoir me, it comes out easier.

Right. Oh my god, that's a beautiful bag is that your purse.

Right. Oh my god, that's a beautiful bag is that your purse.

It is.

It is.

Love it and it will fit a memoir into Babies.

Love it and it will fit a memoir into Babies.

With Adhd sat together for a podcast.

With Adhd sat together for a podcast.

So I I like that. I call it my like quarter life crisis book, and I think because it's very specific in the timeline, it's about my transition, it's about after beer Gate. We do have some essays that flash back to, you know, my childhood, but not in a way that feels like this is everything that I have to offer from age zero to twenty six and and that's all, you know, that could never revisit any of these topics. I wanted it to feel like Chelsea Handler did a lot of kind of essays early on that I really like loved reading as a teenager because it felt like I didn't know that we were allowed to comment on our lives, you know. And it kind of also kind of carry Bradshaw in the way that like she was writing about things so messily and I haven't gotten to talk a lot about like sex or religion or things you know online. That felt a lot more fun to put into a book.

So I I like that. I call it my like quarter life crisis book, and I think because it's very specific in the timeline, it's about my transition, it's about after beer Gate. We do have some essays that flash back to, you know, my childhood, but not in a way that feels like this is everything that I have to offer from age zero to twenty six and and that's all, you know, that could never revisit any of these topics. I wanted it to feel like Chelsea Handler did a lot of kind of essays early on that I really like loved reading as a teenager because it felt like I didn't know that we were allowed to comment on our lives, you know. And it kind of also kind of carry Bradshaw in the way that like she was writing about things so messily and I haven't gotten to talk a lot about like sex or religion or things you know online. That felt a lot more fun to put into a book.

Yeah. Yeah, And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. And I do think it's really important I like the references you make. I love Chelsea's books. And to your point, one of the things I think we need more of is a little bit of permission to be messy.

Yeah. Yeah, And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible. And I do think it's really important I like the references you make. I love Chelsea's books. And to your point, one of the things I think we need more of is a little bit of permission to be messy.

Humans are messy my house right now. Oh it's a state. I also like, I'm one of those people that like I will like have If I'm like, I clean my entire place. It looks amazing for about fifteen minutes, and then something happens and I don't know what it is, but it then looks almost worse than it did before I cleaned it. So that's I think like. And I've seen a few the reviews are starting to roll out, and some of them are like, oh that you you know, it can be trickier to find the timeline or it can you know what are we in a journal entry or are we in an essay? And there's a little bit of that. But I kind of love that it's not about the life linear nature, but rather like what I'm learning and how I learned it versus when. But God, I feel like life sometimes only does your life right now feel like it's getting messier or you're cleaning it up?

Humans are messy my house right now. Oh it's a state. I also like, I'm one of those people that like I will like have If I'm like, I clean my entire place. It looks amazing for about fifteen minutes, and then something happens and I don't know what it is, but it then looks almost worse than it did before I cleaned it. So that's I think like. And I've seen a few the reviews are starting to roll out, and some of them are like, oh that you you know, it can be trickier to find the timeline or it can you know what are we in a journal entry or are we in an essay? And there's a little bit of that. But I kind of love that it's not about the life linear nature, but rather like what I'm learning and how I learned it versus when. But God, I feel like life sometimes only does your life right now feel like it's getting messier or you're cleaning it up?

Oh I think I started a big glean up a couple of years ago. My life feels very full and I am incredibly grateful for that, and I would like to have a little more space, and so I'm trying to kind of recalibrate certain things. Yeah, because I actually really like my life and I want to be present for more of it. Yes, and that feels special.

Oh I think I started a big glean up a couple of years ago. My life feels very full and I am incredibly grateful for that, and I would like to have a little more space, and so I'm trying to kind of recalibrate certain things. Yeah, because I actually really like my life and I want to be present for more of it. Yes, and that feels special.

I feel the same. I feel like this has been a really interesting time. I've taken on a bit too much. I've learned, and so I'm going to get through that and then try to clean shop in other ways. But I think my biggest thing is I like to show up one hundred percent for whatever it is that I'm doing, whether that's an interview or a you know, a performance like I want, like I did the Edinburgh Fringe Festival last year, and I during that time, you know, I had all these other things that needed attention or my eyes on and I basically was like, No, all I want to do right now is work on this show. And I would be so disappointed in myself if I don't give it my all and be like, oh, well, I was trying to do a thousand other things. So that is the part that scares me of like being a multi hyphen it and then being like, what that actually means of being able to put your attention to different things at the same time.

I feel the same. I feel like this has been a really interesting time. I've taken on a bit too much. I've learned, and so I'm going to get through that and then try to clean shop in other ways. But I think my biggest thing is I like to show up one hundred percent for whatever it is that I'm doing, whether that's an interview or a you know, a performance like I want, like I did the Edinburgh Fringe Festival last year, and I during that time, you know, I had all these other things that needed attention or my eyes on and I basically was like, No, all I want to do right now is work on this show. And I would be so disappointed in myself if I don't give it my all and be like, oh, well, I was trying to do a thousand other things. So that is the part that scares me of like being a multi hyphen it and then being like, what that actually means of being able to put your attention to different things at the same time.

I feel that as well, because I wonder if I just did one thing at a time, would I maybe accomplish more at the end. But also I have to I realize I have to be gentle with myself and also trust myself. I am curious about a.

I feel that as well, because I wonder if I just did one thing at a time, would I maybe accomplish more at the end. But also I have to I realize I have to be gentle with myself and also trust myself. I am curious about a.

Lot I know on our ADHD wants us to be doing a lot at the same time.

Lot I know on our ADHD wants us to be doing a lot at the same time.

How did you actually start down the path of comedy and writing and the fringe festival? Like, oh, now you've written a book. You create so much, and I want to know.

How did you actually start down the path of comedy and writing and the fringe festival? Like, oh, now you've written a book. You create so much, and I want to know.

How, because I don't think anyone else is letting me do that, Like, no, I'm not someone that's being particularly like tapped on for a thousand different stories to tell. And so I think right now the best option is to tell my own, because I'm such an active member of my life and wanting to be in this industry knowing that these are some going to be some of the really integral years to what the rest of it looks like, and so I don't want to sit at home waiting for you know, I would love to just be an actress, and I would love to just wait for the auditions to come in and for the parts to play. Right now, that's you know, limited for trans women, especially me, who I think is you know, shares quite publicly, so I'm always trying to carve out other ways of filling time. And then I think what's fun is when somebody does approach me with an idea or an opportunity, I can fit it in amongst what I've already created. But I'm not waiting for anyone else, And I think there is something frustrating and can be exhausting of like always trying to manufacture and trying to tell, you know, a story or get something off the ground. But I'm proud that that I'm I feel quite I'm usually quite sub in certain situations, but I feel very dumb when it comes to my career and my trajectory in my creativity. Like I think I'm really after finding my gender identity. I was like, oh, this is what being an artist can be now that I've like figured some things out within myself. And I think maybe had things come a little easier as far as like I, you know, was on Broadway right now doing eight shows a week. I probably wouldn't have written this book, and I probably wouldn't have, you know, started my podcast or any of these things that I think I need, we need right now. And I do think transjoy can look a lot of different ways, but this book is probably the loudest version of it for me in this moment.

How, because I don't think anyone else is letting me do that, Like, no, I'm not someone that's being particularly like tapped on for a thousand different stories to tell. And so I think right now the best option is to tell my own, because I'm such an active member of my life and wanting to be in this industry knowing that these are some going to be some of the really integral years to what the rest of it looks like, and so I don't want to sit at home waiting for you know, I would love to just be an actress, and I would love to just wait for the auditions to come in and for the parts to play. Right now, that's you know, limited for trans women, especially me, who I think is you know, shares quite publicly, so I'm always trying to carve out other ways of filling time. And then I think what's fun is when somebody does approach me with an idea or an opportunity, I can fit it in amongst what I've already created. But I'm not waiting for anyone else, And I think there is something frustrating and can be exhausting of like always trying to manufacture and trying to tell, you know, a story or get something off the ground. But I'm proud that that I'm I feel quite I'm usually quite sub in certain situations, but I feel very dumb when it comes to my career and my trajectory in my creativity. Like I think I'm really after finding my gender identity. I was like, oh, this is what being an artist can be now that I've like figured some things out within myself. And I think maybe had things come a little easier as far as like I, you know, was on Broadway right now doing eight shows a week. I probably wouldn't have written this book, and I probably wouldn't have, you know, started my podcast or any of these things that I think I need, we need right now. And I do think transjoy can look a lot of different ways, but this book is probably the loudest version of it for me in this moment.

I love that for you. Yeah, And what it strikes me as when you talk about sort of taking control, it's it's agency. You are taking agency of your creativity. You are you are making the things that you want and need that your younger self probably needed too. And I loved something that you said. Rolling Stone just did a great profile on you on the book, and it was such a sweet way to clap back at people who are so upset by transjoy. You said, I'm not trying to influence anyone to do anything other than see a Broadway musical.

I love that for you. Yeah, And what it strikes me as when you talk about sort of taking control, it's it's agency. You are taking agency of your creativity. You are you are making the things that you want and need that your younger self probably needed too. And I loved something that you said. Rolling Stone just did a great profile on you on the book, and it was such a sweet way to clap back at people who are so upset by transjoy. You said, I'm not trying to influence anyone to do anything other than see a Broadway musical.

Period. Well that's not like, that's it, that's my transagenda. Yeah, and hopefully that broad musical would have a transperson in it.

Period. Well that's not like, that's it, that's my transagenda. Yeah, and hopefully that broad musical would have a transperson in it.

But would be wonderful it should be you.

But would be wonderful it should be you.

But at the very least, go see fucking cats, you know, Like I'm I just think that people are so easy to project identities and activism and all these things onto you when if you really listen to what the person is trying to say or you know, what I've also think is crazy as I've done interviews where I'm like, I am not an activist, and then they title the interview activist Dylan mulvany, and so it is really crazy how sometimes loud and clear and articulate you have to be in order to get people to figure out what it is you want.

But at the very least, go see fucking cats, you know, Like I'm I just think that people are so easy to project identities and activism and all these things onto you when if you really listen to what the person is trying to say or you know, what I've also think is crazy as I've done interviews where I'm like, I am not an activist, and then they title the interview activist Dylan mulvany, and so it is really crazy how sometimes loud and clear and articulate you have to be in order to get people to figure out what it is you want.

So what would you say you want?

So what would you say you want?

I would like to be a Broadway diva who gets to tell stories, sometimes my own, sometimes fictional. I want to make people laugh, especially at some of the dark things, like through transness and identity. I would love to make people think. I think that's something that's newer on like my list of desires, because for a long time I didn't know that I could be vulnerable, like publicly. That was kind of against the laws of my family, you know, we were supposed to keep those things to ourselves. But now I love it and I think that I I would love to find love in the hard places and help other people figure that out too. But in a lot of those things, you know, could be as stupid as in a sketch or in you know, a musical or what they don't have to all be in you know, at conferences or you know, speaking at the White House or what, you know, whatever it is that that some people also might assume that means.

I would like to be a Broadway diva who gets to tell stories, sometimes my own, sometimes fictional. I want to make people laugh, especially at some of the dark things, like through transness and identity. I would love to make people think. I think that's something that's newer on like my list of desires, because for a long time I didn't know that I could be vulnerable, like publicly. That was kind of against the laws of my family, you know, we were supposed to keep those things to ourselves. But now I love it and I think that I I would love to find love in the hard places and help other people figure that out too. But in a lot of those things, you know, could be as stupid as in a sketch or in you know, a musical or what they don't have to all be in you know, at conferences or you know, speaking at the White House or what, you know, whatever it is that that some people also might assume that means.

Yeah, I think when you stand up for people, stand up for yourself, stand up for others, you can kind of get cast as a very serious person.

Yeah, I think when you stand up for people, stand up for yourself, stand up for others, you can kind of get cast as a very serious person.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So many people think I'm so serious, and then people hang out with me and they're like, oh, you're weird and really quirky and funny.

So many people think I'm so serious, and then people hang out with me and they're like, oh, you're weird and really quirky and funny.

Right, we know how to have a good time. Yeah. I actually will say though, some of the most serious people are the ones that like to have the most fun. But then people expect that of potentially us. We're in a way that I don't think is always fair. I think, like, I love letting loose with people, and I think people can tell that from social media. But I also I'm definitely not the trans girl that is ready to like, you know, give you every single statistic and talk about every single you know bill or you know, anti trans legislation in the works. And I feel guilty about that sometimes, but then I realize I'm like, oh, but there's like so many other dolls that are really good at that, and I can do my best to figure out how to connect them when those opportunities come my way or you know, they've we have great conversations, like I'm going on a bunch of talk shows next week and I've talked to a bunch of dolls about you know, what, what should I say? What do you think is important for the community? You know, trying to stay really proactive so that when those questions do come up, I'm ready, but not leading with it.

Right, we know how to have a good time. Yeah. I actually will say though, some of the most serious people are the ones that like to have the most fun. But then people expect that of potentially us. We're in a way that I don't think is always fair. I think, like, I love letting loose with people, and I think people can tell that from social media. But I also I'm definitely not the trans girl that is ready to like, you know, give you every single statistic and talk about every single you know bill or you know, anti trans legislation in the works. And I feel guilty about that sometimes, but then I realize I'm like, oh, but there's like so many other dolls that are really good at that, and I can do my best to figure out how to connect them when those opportunities come my way or you know, they've we have great conversations, like I'm going on a bunch of talk shows next week and I've talked to a bunch of dolls about you know, what, what should I say? What do you think is important for the community? You know, trying to stay really proactive so that when those questions do come up, I'm ready, but not leading with it.

Well, one thing I think is really important is that that can't just fall on you, right, It can't just be on trans women to advocate for trans women, since women need to show up and advocate for you in the same way that when we talk about gender based violence around the world, that's actually that's a male problem, that is a statistically male problem. If we scream into the void about what women go through in the world and men don't join us to say men should stop assaulting women, right, we're in a vacuum. And so I think I'm so glad you feel like you get to be your full self, and I love that you have a community that helps you figure out what you should use those platforms to say in the moment, and I want other folks to be reminded that we have to show up for you too.

Well, one thing I think is really important is that that can't just fall on you, right, It can't just be on trans women to advocate for trans women, since women need to show up and advocate for you in the same way that when we talk about gender based violence around the world, that's actually that's a male problem, that is a statistically male problem. If we scream into the void about what women go through in the world and men don't join us to say men should stop assaulting women, right, we're in a vacuum. And so I think I'm so glad you feel like you get to be your full self, and I love that you have a community that helps you figure out what you should use those platforms to say in the moment, and I want other folks to be reminded that we have to show up for you too.

Yes, thank you. But it's also fascinating what's happening, I think when it comes to allyship, because the you know, far right extremists are getting really good at trying to scare our allies away. And even this was an example is getting my makeup done by a really lovely gay man last week, and he was talking about this transvestigation over this very famous woman that you know, all these people are claiming is a trans woman and all the reasons why they think she's trans, and I had to explain to him that it was like deeply problematic because you know, whether this person was trans or not, they were trying to cast her as this like monster or this person hiding you know, secrets or deceiving the public. And and I had to explain that like what they now want to do is make cis women believe that like being called trans or you know, being accused of being a trans person is like the worst, you know thing, when in reality it's it's like most transgirls I know are really cute and and they we've got our you know, we've got we're working on it, we're getting it together. But I find it very problematic that a lot of allies don't always know what is transphobic, like like and you know, we've got to figure out those conversations. But if if it's pushing a notion that like transness is evil or you know problematic, like, chances are it's probably transphobic. Yeah, And and so it's it's interesting getting to still exist in around so many icons, and especially these women that I call friends and and that support me publicly like I had Lady Gaga last year post on International Women's Day or you know, standing up for me. And and that's the kind of where I'm like, holy crap, like there's there's still the good ones, and I'm here with you right now. I think that it makes me sad to think that certain people would be scared to you know, uh, be seen with the trans person or to work with us or hire us. But there's so much power in saying no, I'm not going to live in that fear or that you know people are going to boycott my product or not watch this television show or unfollow because you support you know a transperson. That's that is, it's we can't give into that, We cannot give into that fear. I'm so tired of being scared.

Yes, thank you. But it's also fascinating what's happening, I think when it comes to allyship, because the you know, far right extremists are getting really good at trying to scare our allies away. And even this was an example is getting my makeup done by a really lovely gay man last week, and he was talking about this transvestigation over this very famous woman that you know, all these people are claiming is a trans woman and all the reasons why they think she's trans, and I had to explain to him that it was like deeply problematic because you know, whether this person was trans or not, they were trying to cast her as this like monster or this person hiding you know, secrets or deceiving the public. And and I had to explain that like what they now want to do is make cis women believe that like being called trans or you know, being accused of being a trans person is like the worst, you know thing, when in reality it's it's like most transgirls I know are really cute and and they we've got our you know, we've got we're working on it, we're getting it together. But I find it very problematic that a lot of allies don't always know what is transphobic, like like and you know, we've got to figure out those conversations. But if if it's pushing a notion that like transness is evil or you know problematic, like, chances are it's probably transphobic. Yeah, And and so it's it's interesting getting to still exist in around so many icons, and especially these women that I call friends and and that support me publicly like I had Lady Gaga last year post on International Women's Day or you know, standing up for me. And and that's the kind of where I'm like, holy crap, like there's there's still the good ones, and I'm here with you right now. I think that it makes me sad to think that certain people would be scared to you know, uh, be seen with the trans person or to work with us or hire us. But there's so much power in saying no, I'm not going to live in that fear or that you know people are going to boycott my product or not watch this television show or unfollow because you support you know a transperson. That's that is, it's we can't give into that, We cannot give into that fear. I'm so tired of being scared.

Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. One of the things I think is really beautiful about the book is you do claim so much joy, you do share so much happiness with us, and you also aren't shying away from the things that have been hard, and you do talk about beer Gate, and you do really bring us into what it feels like to be targeted by these far right hate campaigns. But the thing that hit me so hard actually is something you share in the first thirty pages of the book, and you talk about how so many external opinions. You know, you're one person on the internet and millions of people can comment at you, and talk about how so many external opinions can can create so much noise, so much mental and emotional noise, that your darkest thoughts, your self loathing, your critique that all of us have inside of us, can suddenly be parroting the worst of the comment section. Yes and how And reading your words when you talked about it, like took my breath away because I know exactly how that feels. It honestly made me gasp, Like I heard myself gasp when I read it, because I know how paralyzing that feeling is, and.

Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. One of the things I think is really beautiful about the book is you do claim so much joy, you do share so much happiness with us, and you also aren't shying away from the things that have been hard, and you do talk about beer Gate, and you do really bring us into what it feels like to be targeted by these far right hate campaigns. But the thing that hit me so hard actually is something you share in the first thirty pages of the book, and you talk about how so many external opinions. You know, you're one person on the internet and millions of people can comment at you, and talk about how so many external opinions can can create so much noise, so much mental and emotional noise, that your darkest thoughts, your self loathing, your critique that all of us have inside of us, can suddenly be parroting the worst of the comment section. Yes and how And reading your words when you talked about it, like took my breath away because I know exactly how that feels. It honestly made me gasp, Like I heard myself gasp when I read it, because I know how paralyzing that feeling is, and.

How do you get I think, how do you identify it? How do you get out that crazy is? When you can, then when you have made enough progress to see that you are, you're quite literally at a crossroads where you're like, I'm either going to believe this what they're saying about myself, and I'm going to take it on as part of me, or I'm going to acknowledge that what they're saying is not true about myself because I know who I am and the people that I love know who I am, and and let that be the course that you take. And I actually, even just yesterday, even that we were talking about the Elton John party, I was interviewing people on the carpet and I was reading all these comments about, oh, you know, this girl's so annoying, she's standing too close to people, she won't let her you know, people get a word, all these things, and I went I almost was like, oh, I'm going to make a video now being like, yeah, I'm annoying, I know it. And then I was like oh my gosh, like it was like a clear cut you just changed your opinion about yourself based on these other people. And there were plenty of other comments that loved it and that were, you know, behind what I was doing, but those other ones were louder, And I think what I had to do was not only kind of take some distance from taking in information about myself, which is so hard to not look, but I had to be very clear about who who I was. I think I spent kind of the last two years since Beergate getting very specific about what I know about myself to be true, so that now when I put a book out and have a lot of new critique coming my way, that I can stand behind those things. I know I'm a musical theater girl. I know that I talk too much. I know that well that even me just saying that that was a projection of someone else. That I love to talk is how I'll rephrase that. That I feel really beautiful most of the time, but that I also can sometimes get in my head and that's often linked to dysphoria. I know that I love to be raunchy, and that that's not something to be ashamed of about myself. These are little things that I think are helpful. Then when I read those, I can kind of go down the checklist and be like, Okay, so that's it's not here already, and I don't think we need to add it. It's just it's so crazy how great social media can be and then how toxic it and even the I think it goes back to the press too in the media of how they're pushing transphobia, because a lot of what they're saying and these headlines are like deeply transphobic, but they're very click baity and those are other like those Actually I have an easier time laughing at because it's like it feels like this, you know, news source that couldn't be more incorrect, versus like seeing a person's name on a screen that's like leaving a specific comment, because that feels, in a weird way more tangible knowing there's like a human behind it.

How do you get I think, how do you identify it? How do you get out that crazy is? When you can, then when you have made enough progress to see that you are, you're quite literally at a crossroads where you're like, I'm either going to believe this what they're saying about myself, and I'm going to take it on as part of me, or I'm going to acknowledge that what they're saying is not true about myself because I know who I am and the people that I love know who I am, and and let that be the course that you take. And I actually, even just yesterday, even that we were talking about the Elton John party, I was interviewing people on the carpet and I was reading all these comments about, oh, you know, this girl's so annoying, she's standing too close to people, she won't let her you know, people get a word, all these things, and I went I almost was like, oh, I'm going to make a video now being like, yeah, I'm annoying, I know it. And then I was like oh my gosh, like it was like a clear cut you just changed your opinion about yourself based on these other people. And there were plenty of other comments that loved it and that were, you know, behind what I was doing, but those other ones were louder, And I think what I had to do was not only kind of take some distance from taking in information about myself, which is so hard to not look, but I had to be very clear about who who I was. I think I spent kind of the last two years since Beergate getting very specific about what I know about myself to be true, so that now when I put a book out and have a lot of new critique coming my way, that I can stand behind those things. I know I'm a musical theater girl. I know that I talk too much. I know that well that even me just saying that that was a projection of someone else. That I love to talk is how I'll rephrase that. That I feel really beautiful most of the time, but that I also can sometimes get in my head and that's often linked to dysphoria. I know that I love to be raunchy, and that that's not something to be ashamed of about myself. These are little things that I think are helpful. Then when I read those, I can kind of go down the checklist and be like, Okay, so that's it's not here already, and I don't think we need to add it. It's just it's so crazy how great social media can be and then how toxic it and even the I think it goes back to the press too in the media of how they're pushing transphobia, because a lot of what they're saying and these headlines are like deeply transphobic, but they're very click baity and those are other like those Actually I have an easier time laughing at because it's like it feels like this, you know, news source that couldn't be more incorrect, versus like seeing a person's name on a screen that's like leaving a specific comment, because that feels, in a weird way more tangible knowing there's like a human behind it.

Yeah, where it's a bot though, what are bots could just be a bot?

Yeah, where it's a bot though, what are bots could just be a bot?

I don't understand. Do you have do you have bots are looked into bots?

I don't understand. Do you have do you have bots are looked into bots?

Oh, it's just it's relentless and it's.

Oh, it's just it's relentless and it's.

We need like a queer bot farm that like throws the good stuff out there. Just imagine someone like doing.

We need like a queer bot farm that like throws the good stuff out there. Just imagine someone like doing.

Like sexy sassy commentary.

Like sexy sassy commentary.

Oh that would be not who's going to pay for that?

Oh that would be not who's going to pay for that?

I don't know. We need a benevolent it.

I don't know. We need a benevolent it.

Was really billion Yeah, we need a gay billionaire to put out.

Was really billion Yeah, we need a gay billionaire to put out.

But I don't think there are any benevolent billionaires. Unfortunately.

But I don't think there are any benevolent billionaires. Unfortunately.

I hate it. It's tricky, right, weird.

I hate it. It's tricky, right, weird.

I don't know, but if we win the power Ball, it could be that's.

I don't know, but if we win the power Ball, it could be that's.

What, and then it's going to be us making a good bot farm.

What, and then it's going to be us making a good bot farm.

Yeah, I'm I'm here for that.

Yeah, I'm I'm here for that.

Is that an oxymoron? A good bot farm? Is it bot? By the way, what is robot? Yeah?

Is that an oxymoron? A good bot farm? Is it bot? By the way, what is robot? Yeah?

Like a robot, it's a it's a little digital terrorist essentially.

Like a robot, it's a it's a little digital terrorist essentially.

I'm also getting scared of, like how we're our future is going to go with robots?

I'm also getting scared of, like how we're our future is going to go with robots?

Yeah, me too. Everything's crazy. I'm like, did nobody watch Terminator?

Yeah, me too. Everything's crazy. I'm like, did nobody watch Terminator?

What are we doing with the I don't like the self driving cars?

What are we doing with the I don't like the self driving cars?

No creeps me out. It all creeps me out. But at least we're entering into a future where your book exists.

No creeps me out. It all creeps me out. But at least we're entering into a future where your book exists.

Woo. I bet it's going to get banned so fast.

Woo. I bet it's going to get banned so fast.

You know what's really sort of hilarious but sad about you saying that is. My partner was like, what is this enormous box of book? What is this? Like you need any more books? And I said, oh no, sorry, last week I had to buy all the books the DOJ band just in case. Oh my god, we're that in it. And I'm going, this is so weird that I'm turning my house into a book archive just in case.

You know what's really sort of hilarious but sad about you saying that is. My partner was like, what is this enormous box of book? What is this? Like you need any more books? And I said, oh no, sorry, last week I had to buy all the books the DOJ band just in case. Oh my god, we're that in it. And I'm going, this is so weird that I'm turning my house into a book archive just in case.

Well, I mean and say that I write in the book, I say like, I hope the words on this page last longer than the videos on my profile. And TikTok got banned for a second there, and I was like, oh, I thought this was going to be like a nostalgic fifty years from now sentence, And now it's like the reality. But a lot harder to get rid of something physical like this than to, you know, have a profile disappear.

Well, I mean and say that I write in the book, I say like, I hope the words on this page last longer than the videos on my profile. And TikTok got banned for a second there, and I was like, oh, I thought this was going to be like a nostalgic fifty years from now sentence, And now it's like the reality. But a lot harder to get rid of something physical like this than to, you know, have a profile disappear.

Line, push something and have it go.

Line, push something and have it go.

And I think what I wrote about meeting Judy Bloom in my book and I got to interview her during literally the height of beer Gate, and what had happened right before I walked into that interview was I got slammed coming out of a woman's bathroom in the hotel that I was interviewing Judy Bloom, and they you know, were saying horrible things to me up in my face. They had totally trespassing. But then I had to walk into this interview with Judy and I swear things just happened when they're supposed to do, and you see the people that you needed because I felt so small in that moment, and then getting to talk to her, you know, this is a woman who had her books banned years and years ago in like the seventies and the eighties, and and she looked at me at the end and she was like, do not let anyone stop you from sharing your story, from writing it down, from putting it out there. She's like, there's so much good to be done. She was like, there were so many people early on that tried to make me feel like I was, you know, evil, or that I was doing something that was corrupting the U. And she was like, but you have to know what your the purpose is of something, and she was like, you've got to put it out there. And so like hearing that from like Judy Bloom, that's somebody that's a little bit better to be listening to than Fox News.

And I think what I wrote about meeting Judy Bloom in my book and I got to interview her during literally the height of beer Gate, and what had happened right before I walked into that interview was I got slammed coming out of a woman's bathroom in the hotel that I was interviewing Judy Bloom, and they you know, were saying horrible things to me up in my face. They had totally trespassing. But then I had to walk into this interview with Judy and I swear things just happened when they're supposed to do, and you see the people that you needed because I felt so small in that moment, and then getting to talk to her, you know, this is a woman who had her books banned years and years ago in like the seventies and the eighties, and and she looked at me at the end and she was like, do not let anyone stop you from sharing your story, from writing it down, from putting it out there. She's like, there's so much good to be done. She was like, there were so many people early on that tried to make me feel like I was, you know, evil, or that I was doing something that was corrupting the U. And she was like, but you have to know what your the purpose is of something, and she was like, you've got to put it out there. And so like hearing that from like Judy Bloom, that's somebody that's a little bit better to be listening to than Fox News.

I would say, well, yeah, or some insane person bombarding bathrooms. It's so gross. It's so gross, But you know what is is wild to me, And I think this is something people miss again because you know, they have to create clickbait and rage in some ways, so they have to make everyone afraid of everyone. And there's no way that seeing you exists in the world and be happy is going to turn some sisc hid trams. But what I know to be true is that a four year old who does what you did and says to your mom, God made a mistake, I'm in the wrong body could see you and know that what they're saying isn't crazy and that they're going to be okay someday. Yes, And that to me feels like such an important thing in the world to just make sure that people don't feel alone.

I would say, well, yeah, or some insane person bombarding bathrooms. It's so gross. It's so gross, But you know what is is wild to me, And I think this is something people miss again because you know, they have to create clickbait and rage in some ways, so they have to make everyone afraid of everyone. And there's no way that seeing you exists in the world and be happy is going to turn some sisc hid trams. But what I know to be true is that a four year old who does what you did and says to your mom, God made a mistake, I'm in the wrong body could see you and know that what they're saying isn't crazy and that they're going to be okay someday. Yes, And that to me feels like such an important thing in the world to just make sure that people don't feel alone.

Right. And I've now what's been fascinating since talking about that moment with my mom, Like so many people, even in the industry, have like come to me and been like, hey, my kid is you know going through this or And it gives people permission to you know, have conversations and to like get to the bottom of things in a way that I think there was so much shame about before, and I even told my family, I was like, I didn't paint us as these like picture perfect people, because we aren't and that's not what our family is. But hopefully other people getting to see our progress and that the fact that we all still love each other and I feel so supportive by them is actually way more beneficial than me painting it as like a pretty picture.

Right. And I've now what's been fascinating since talking about that moment with my mom, Like so many people, even in the industry, have like come to me and been like, hey, my kid is you know going through this or And it gives people permission to you know, have conversations and to like get to the bottom of things in a way that I think there was so much shame about before, and I even told my family, I was like, I didn't paint us as these like picture perfect people, because we aren't and that's not what our family is. But hopefully other people getting to see our progress and that the fact that we all still love each other and I feel so supportive by them is actually way more beneficial than me painting it as like a pretty picture.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think one of the hardest things about being a human in the public eye is that you very rarely get to go through something and process it and then talk about it when it's done. You kind of have to process in real time out loud, and I think that can be very toxic because then your life gets treated like it's a TV show or a storyline, and you're like.