The next chapter with prim sripapat is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey everybody, it's PRIM Welcome to the next chapter, presented by Baron Davis and Slick Studios. So this week we continue the Transparent Conversation series and nationwide multi city, multi university series addressing student athlete mental health and well being. I'm not gonna lie. It has been an absolute dream to host and moderate all these different LIE panels in different cities, with different athletes and guests on different topics, but of course, Senator around something I truly care about, which is student athlete mental health. And all of it is being powered by LG Electronics USA. So, as I said last week, these conversations were so moving and so impactful, I thought it was really important that we re aired these discussions right here on the next chapter so all of you could have the opportunity to listen and take part in these discussions. Now. In the first couple of episodes, we talked about the stressors of the modern student athlete experience, and then we talked about the consequences and the mental health implications of those stressors. Today, we're going to talk about the role of support systems on student athlete mental health and well being. So now we're essentially expanding the conversation and moving beyond the student athletes and looking at all the different people who play a really important role in the support, the development, and just the overall well being of student athletes. And this is an important piece because it shows how all of us can play a role in helping so on. So in this episode, you're gonna hear from three different people. We're gonna hear from Lee Key, for three time Olympian and gold medal fencer, also a four time n C double A champion and Notre Dame alum. She's a rock star. You're also going to hear from her mother, Teresa Keefer, who just so happened to be a psychiatrist. And you're also going to hear from Lee's longtime coach, Gia Verisclia, who is also the head fencing coach at Lee's alma mater, the University of Notre Dame. So, if you are a coach or a sports parent, I really do think this conversation is for one you should listen to. I hope you enjoy it and roll it thumbs up. Okay, I think we're alive. Everybody. Hopefully the van, the LG Concident Conversations van will not crash, and I don't think it's gonna crash because we're park that we're totally fine. Well, allow me to welcome everybody formally to the LG Transparent Conversations multi city multi university tour and mini series addressing such an important topic student athlete mental health and well being is all being powered by LG Electronics U s A. So today we are in Columbus, Ohio, just outside of Lower dot Com Field and just outside of Ohio State UM University. There is some rain Mother Nature giving us a little bit of a hard time, but considering the accolades and accomplishments in the background of our panelists today, obviously nothing is going to stop us. For those that don't know, my name is prim Sripapett. I will be serving as your host and moderator for today's amazing and event. And as a former student athlete and tennis player, longtime sports broadcaster and now a PhD counseling psychology is doing at Fordham University, It's just an honor to be here with all of you and so excited for today's discussion. I can hardly wait to just dive into this topic. I have a feeling I'm gonna learn a lot today. So just to give everybody a little bit of a backdrop, we started off this LG Transparent Converse Station series talking about first the stressors of the student athlete experience, and then after that we talked about the consequences of the mental health implications of those stressors. So today we're going to expand the conversation and talk about the role of support systems and how the people around student athletes really play such a big role in not only their mental health, but their well being as well. So joining us for today for this important conversation, we have Lee Kiefer, the three time Olympian and gold medal fencer, four time n C Double A champion, and Notre Dame alum. If I went through the rest of your resume, we'd be sitting here for two hours, and so we're not gonna do that. We're gonna keep it short and simple. Lee, how are you today? Thank you so much for joining us. It's our pleasure to be here talking to you. Yes, and we also have your lovely mother, Teresa Kifa Kiefer who is the mother of multiple n c l A fencing champions and who is also a psychiatrist, so she's obviously going to be able to offer so much clinical insight and as well. And Teresa, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you for having me. I know both of you made it through the rain so and you powered through. It was only three four hour drive from Kentucky, right, not too far. Yeah. And last, but certainly not least, we have Guia Veris Scalia. I think I nailed that last name, coach Gia, who is zooming in from Notre Dame. He is the head fencing coach for the Fighting Irish Gia, how are you today, sir? Thank you so much. And I'm such an honor to be with amazing people I admire on the same same same panel. Ah well, let's get this conversation started. So really, just the aim for today, as I mentioned, you know, we're going to talk about all the important people in persons surrounding the student athlete who have really an integral role in shaping their experiences not only in college but obviously as a person to and beyond that. And and I think this is really important because by recognizing how we are all involved in the student athlete experience. We also now have the opportunity too. We realize that we can have the opportunity to help student athletes um regardless of what happens. So it's all about expanding those conversations. So let's set the tone for everybody who's listening here, Lee, it begins with you, the student athlete. So if you could explain, obviously we know who your mother is, but why why do you think it's so important that she is here with us today and a part of this conversation. Well, I guess my major identity in life is a fencer, and I feel that without my mom and my dad and my amazing coaches, I would not have all of these amazing opportunities and such a beautiful and dynamic life story so far. Yeah, wonderful. And so and what about your relationship with Gia. We were talking beforehand that you've known him for many years, so explained to everybody just your dynamics in terms of how long you've known them, but also how long you two have been working together as coach and athlete. Gia, what do you think when how old was I when we first met? I would say Lee was fifteen fourteen fifteen when we actually formally met, so pretty young. And then you don't start college until you're eighteen, so we had a relationship before then, but then once I reached Notre Dame, that's when we started working together as coach, student, mentor friend. And we're still working together even after I graduated. And so okay, so you two continue to work with one another even as you have graduated from Notre Dame. Yeah, I was. I was there last week getting lessons and Gio was just kicking my butt, working really hard. You're too kind as well, he should because he used your coach. And from what I understand, your mom continues to kick your behind as well, and as well she should because she she is your mama. It's their job. And Teresa, how about how long have I assume you all have known Gia since Lee, since Guia entered Lee's um orbit, and so what has that relationship been like? We've really appreciated Gia. We've known him again since so since she was fourteen fifteen. Because in fencing, you usually travel to national tournaments and also international tournaments, so that's how you often meet. And also we have close friends that are big Notre Dame fans, so we met him through them as well. UM, so he's been. We were so pleased when she was going to Notre Dame because we knew that Gia would take care of her essentially, and he was show you know, he's been such a wonderful continues to be a wonderful um mentor for the whole family. Yeah. I mean, now that I'm really putting things together, I don't. I'm trying to think how often it is that a junior athlete goes to college having an already established relationship with their coach. I don't. I'm sure it happens quite a bit. For me, you know, going to Duke, I did not have that um and so I had to really start from scratch. So that actually must have from a parent perspective, Theresa, that actually must have really kind of settled your nerves, because it's it's really as if you're handing off your child to the university and whoever, and really the coach, because the coach is really the person that's going to be kind of assuming that role as not only the athletic mentor, but kind of a transitional parent role in some ways, yes, and and Gia has um it's not just us that know him. He's a very, very wonderful reputation in the fencing community. So um, it's not so much that we're the only ones that knew him personally. A lot of people knows who he is, and everybody knows how um, how friendly and open and sincere he is. So um, yes, it made a lot easier because we already trusted Guia even before she wasn't Notre Dame. And Lee, did that play a role in your decision to go to Notre Dame? Um? Yes, Guia always he set up my college visit, so I was surrounded by the most lovely humans, including himself, And after meeting that community, I was like, this is this is gonna be my home for the next few years. And how about you, Gia, You know, when you were recruiting and going through the process us, I mean, aside from Lee's athletic achievements, what other aspects did you feel we're really important about bringing her to the program Because for you, from the perspective of a coach, you're not just looking at the the individual accolades, but you're really looking for somebody who can who can make this team and make this program better, and you want to make sure they fit within the university setting. So what was it about Lee that made you feel as though she was going to be a great fit and that the fit it's the right ward because it has to be a connection and has to be that ward has to be a main contributing factor when you recruit someone. She was thirteen fourteen coming up, being already a phenom, and I would see her showing up with her sister the earliest in the venue and warm up and wait, she treated they both treated the refs, the coaches, interacting with the others. So fourteen years old shows already was developed emotionally and and and intellectually ahead of her curve. So I would not want to have that person and a person at the fenser has to be separated at the beginning of the most important having a right fit, right human right attitude, right mindset is more important sometimes at the right athlete, because you can always put the dimensions into the athlete, but you cannot change the person that greatly when they're already you know, eight formed in age eighteen, So that was my biggest and seeing the parents and how much you know, one of these competitions, I overheard Stephen Lee's father that Lee had lost about and he said, you know what, you make your own destiny. It's your responsibility, and no one unless you are probably not like that. Really, I don't think, you know, really special person. The same with same theme was with acts al Le's um, a brother who followed Lee to Notre Dame. So the foundation the parents late for those kids that were those are most you know, most appealing to me, rather than her athletic potential, which we knew that it was, you know, sky sky high, but it's all together, but her human nature what want over me? And the parents who raised that amazing angly Yeah, that's so interesting to hear from the coaching perspective, You're really you're not only recruiting the player, you're kind of recruiting the familial background and and their upbringing, in their history and all the things that come with it. But you know, even with somebody who is a great fit for that university and who was coming in with all the resources, let's be honest, being a student athlete in college is a challenge because of all the things that we had mentioned in the previous discussion. We talked about the time demands and the academic pressure and the athletic pressure, and depending on which school you go to, obviously there's that sense of tradition and the expectations. The list goes on, so you know, let's let's kind of expand the conversation now, Lee, I want to begin with you from just as to an athlete perspective. Let's just start brainstorming here and talk listing out all the different people that have an influence on your experience as an athlete. So who are some of the most important people do you think in terms of shaping your time in college? So obviously parent, coach, my significant other I went to school with. That was a huge part of my experience. My teammates, old and new ones, your teachers, the administration. Everyone has little bits of influence sprinkled in, yeah and out of that list. So you know, you kind of mentioned the parents, and it's you know what I and I put them the parents down on this list because even though most of these athletes, and unless the athlete goes to a commuter school, but let's say for the most part of the the athlete leaves the home. This is essentially going to be their first time most likely away from their their their center and their nuclear family. But the parents still have an important role even when they are away in college. In Teresa, what was your experience with Lee leaving home but then still in some ways kind of being involved when she was in college or what did it feel like for you? You know, physically she was away and she was ready to explore, you know, the bigger world. But we I think it's a family. We feel very connected no matter where they are and how long we've been physically apart, we're very connected emotionally. So, um, we were excited for her, but we're not the kind of parents that are really sad that we we don't have bodies in the house anymore, because really mentally we're still very connected, you know. So you were having an empty nest party basically as one goes out, You're like, yes, we were fine with it because we really never feel like our children leave, you know, they're they're just out in the world physically, not at home, but we never we always feel very connected. So you guys came to a lot of our competitions still and then face time was more of a thing. So I think the time made it a lot easier for us to stay connected because your parents and your family were coming to visit you. Um. And how often would you make the trip to Notre Dame? A few times a year. We would usually go to a football game and we would spend the weekend together. We would go to a couple of fencing tournaments sometimes, well even we've traveled to New York for a tournament, and we've traveled also we've met Um an international tournament. So we would still see each other. Um, So it wasn't that it was never too uh too long when we wouldn't see each other, Okay, And maybe, and I'm just I'm asking these questions because it's important because I'm sure there's a lot of parents, excuse me, and a lot of student athletes who are listening to this, and you know, these are little pieces in tidbits for maybe families to kind of take in about how to really continue to maintain that relationship. But of course not everybody can, let's say, afford to go and see their kid multiple times. So how many times would you say you would talk to Lee over the course of a month or year or week. Definitely a few times and a few times, once a week, once a week, and sometimes it's not even a deep conversation. It's just superficial how are you doing? Or do you need this? You know, can you get this? Sort just nuts and bolts sort of conversation. It wasn't always a deep conversation. It wouldn't that feel like for you, Lee to continue to because I'm sure sometimes when you go off to college, you're like, whoa freedom and you're ready to rock and roll, right, But knowing, sometimes just knowing your parents are there, even if you don't reach out or don't talk to them, it is kind of a nice security blanket. Yeah. I think they had a great balance of giving me my independence, but also yeah, if I was having a bad day or crying, they would be the first people I would call. And they were always accessible to me. UM, So I never questioned that they weren't in my corner. And yeah, I'm gonna I want to bring you into this conversation, but before I do, Lee, when you're looking, when you're when we're looking at this list, parents, coaches, assistant coaches. Of course, we have the athletic staff right um doctors, physical therapist, trainers, academic advisors, professors. You also talked about your teammates peers. We also have social media. Uh, you know, I kind of put that in in the support system, even though that can kind of be the thing that breaks. It could be a negative or positive thing, but it's it has to be in this ecosystem because it's a huge component whether or not it's net positive or net negative experience. It's a totally different conversation. But when I when I list all of these people, who do you think is the most important person when you're in college from the student athlete perspective, Um, I think it depends on the person. For me, I relied mostly on my significant other at the time I started dating, and we can talk more about this later. But he is very connected to Gia, so a lot of my struggles were like routed through him to Guia to my parents. So it's a very connected web. Explain that again. Okay, Well, first of all, explain who your boyfriend is or sorry, not your boyfriend, your husband so everybody knows. Yeah, sorry, Um, backtrack. UM, I have been with my partner for almost a decade now, and we started dating at the beginning of college. Um. He's also a Fenser he's very accomplished by himself, and maybe for the reason we're both high level athletes is the reason we're drawn to each other. But he was my rock from the beginning of college and because of his relationship with Guia and my parents and my friends, I think that connection, that large woven web, gave me a really strong support system. And so would you go to your husband if you were having He was like your go to if you had any sort of issues going on academically athletically, whether he wanted to hear it or not. And that's probably the reason why she didn't need us as much because he was there got it. Yeah, that's a really yeah, And your situation is really unique because rarely does anybody go in an athlete goes in and they they have their their spouse already there with them and they're also in the sport and on the team and know the coach, and so you really really had that great um, I don't know buffers the right word, but a really good support system. So yeah, I want to really bring you in. When you're hearing Lee and Teresa talk about their dynamic, what is coming to the surface for you from a head coaching perspective. I have to first validate what Lie said that Derek probably was at the cornerstone of the success story. UM. And I would get the text message from Derrick and we were very close. Um. You know, he had been here already five years, that had recruited him, known Garrett since he was maybe twelve as well. And I would have a text magine, she's having a really bad day, just f y R. And I learned literally when I would get the text when she had a bad day or she didn't have a bad day, where she walked, the speed of the walk, the way he turned, I already knew then later on what they we were having based on how she walked in and that was a huge heads up. UM. And then then you cushion somehow someway. When you have this a little bit of warning signals that that way or this way, it makes easier for coach coach to navigate those mazes and create the atmosphere in the situation when they are protected in the beginning with So that really helped. And the parents again, they were so amazing. Guy. Again, the communication is everything. I don't think we communicated about how Lee was doing more or less because Garrick was there and um when we communicated, it usually was just a pleasant and amazing developing the relationships. But Garrick was at the unique for like we said, for that situation, but Garrick was the person who actually made everything happen for all of us. So for the majority of athletes who you know, may not have the support system that lead did. And I can now start to see why your husband you're now a husband, was an integral component. I wish I kind of had a Gary because it's like, I don't think at that time, between eighteen and twenty two years old, not only did I have the the confidence, I also didn't have the comfort level to just go up to my coach and say, hey, I'm just having a bad day because I was always so worried. I'm like, Okay, if I tell him I'm having a bad day, is he going to think that I am not deserved ing of my scholarship. I know that's that that's a very extreme thought, but excuse me. You want to position yourself in a way where you're like, Okay, I I want to earn my spot on this team. I want to prove to you that I deserve to be a member on this team. So coach, um, you know, for for all the other athletes that may not have a garrick or maybe a strong support system in their parents, what are some of the things that you are navigating as a coach when you don't have a touch And now it's entirely up to you to read those warning signs. Like everything else, every relationship takes time to develop, and a trust is the most important component of that. So as a coach, understanding that there's so much stressors and so much pressure writing those kids, they're all amazing the beginning with. To get to the great schools like Notre Dame or the others takes incredible academic achievements and athletic achievements. So those are the type as that come here and they want to succeed and every single day what they do, and the controversy when they don't comes to you know, a little many tragedies here and there. So to understanding and offering the full support and then wish that that support will be accepted and it will take less of her time to develop that trust. When we really share the valuable information we need to hear about it in terms of the scholarship situation. We are we are lucky that we signed everyone four years ahead, so they don't really want to do anything but do their best. So there's never gonna be a issue that if they don't perform up to their potential, that somebody something will be taken away. So we're lucky that our university structures that way. But the pressure athletes put on themselves, it's far greater than anyone could exert on them. So um, in my opinion and in my recollection, in my experience, offering unconditional support to them as a person and hopefully that will be good enough for the conversation to start moving forward. Excellent, What an awesome answer. Doesn't give himself enough credit for, Like what a strong communicator he is, and how much effort he puts in to build all these relationships. Like even visiting him last week, he's telling me stories about kids calling him at like four in the morning, Like he is always there for people, like like other student athletes. Actually he doesn't just like do this for me or for you know, people he's known for decades, Like he builds this with everyone and we'll really cater to like their special needs, because I think with all sports, not just fencing. People are being at different stages of life or have different goals, like more emphasis on academics or trying to make the Olympics, and like, you have to understand where this person is to be able to offer them the support they need and grace and specific moments. Kiah, you gotta build yourself up a little bit more. You're amazing. So maybe that's why he's so good because of his humility. I mean, I think that's a wonderful quality for a coach because the moment your ego gets bigger and the humility subsides, Now we're stopped. We're stopping the process of learning. I think all all excellent coaches and the ones that continue to evolve and grow because the sport is always changing, culture is always changing, and they're able to constantly be learning um and figuring out ways to adjust their coaching strategies so they can continue to help student athletes. Theresa, you're going to say something. I always feel that Gia goes out of his way to take care of are my children, which is ACXL and Lee and Garrick, and I always think we're special the way he treats us is so special, you know, um, but he clearly does this for a lot of people, and I don't know how he does it. So yes, Kudosia for sure. Well let's you know, let's talk about that because it's funny, uhle. And you're right, because every Ston athlete is going to come in with an entirely different experience. And when you mentioned Garrick was the most probably the cornerstone and the most important part about your ability to navigate your college experience, I can see why my answer to that question would have been the coach. I think the coach is probably the most instrumental person when you're looking as do an athlete experience, because you know they're gonna they are the person that that most likely recruited you. They're the person that sets the tone for your entire experience. They set the tone for the culture of the team, the culture of the program, and they're also going to be operating as not only your role model, but you know, hopefully there's somebody that can exist as a mentor and maybe a parent at times, like you was doing with those calls at four am. I'm not even even gonna ask you about the content of that call, although I am curious. I'm wondering if somebody must a call you and be like, hey, can you pick it up from the bar right now? And stuck? But that's besides the point. We we don't want to bear too much off. But gia. Even just being able to talk to you, and this is where I'm going to rely on my my clinical my still developing clinical skills, but even just hearing you talk, there is just this like warmth and uh sense of comfort and safety that you offer when you're just talking to people. So how do you build trust? Can you just lift out some of those qualities? And you don't really have a lot of time, like four years is kind of a long time, but you really do. When these students come in, you have to develop that sense of trust quickly so they can buy into what you are saying and really begin to kind of um perform. So how do you build that trust? What are some steps? Um um you know. The last weekend we had this incredible football game with lots of alarms came back and it was it was the most amazing feeling that their connection with each other, their connection to to to me probably my connection with them, and it was based on unconditional love. You know, they had graduated five, seven, ten years prior to coming back next to last week. So UM, I don't believe anything but giving the unconditional love and supports to everyone comes here because they become a part of the fabric of this family, and anything else could be could be worked with UM. And when when they feel in that age, when they feel at any age, but especially when vulnerable, they come here with academics are pounding them. I was talking to Stephen Lee's dad after she went home in the January for the December break and apparently she slept for three days, woke up, would eat and go back and with first and act with this conversation and said how was how was Lee at home? And it goes well, I didn't see her for first three days and so she slept. Academically, they're challenged every single day and athletic did they challenged? And they're the stressor of the social life, integrating into the into the new environment. So stress is all over. So at least if we could mitigate that and offering them unconditional support who they are and as a people, there will be a good start off the developing relationships. Some people take it, and the relationship happens, you know, develops quicker. Something people never some people takes a while. But if we keep trying our hardest, that's the good down payment for their well being here. Yeah, thank you. Uh you know that unconditional support. Also, what I'm hearing is kind of an unconditional love, you know. Obviously it might be different than the love between a parent and their child, but it really is. It's about that unconditional acceptance for that person and unconditional love for the athlete and GIA. There's a lot of coaches out there that try to achieve it, but they aren't able to execute it. So what goes wrong in those instances and we all know when that happens because student athletes, they may not be explicit in saying it, giving that feedback directly to the coach, but a student athlete will always walk away from their experience and you will know, you will always know for many, many many years after they graduate what their relationship was like with their coach, because behind closed doors or even open doors, athletes will tell you I liked my coach, I got along with them, I did not like my coach, and they didn't give me the support that I needed in college. So, Kia, what's what's the difference of when somebody tries, when a coach tries to offer that unconditional acceptance and positive regard and love, and it doesn't. It doesn't it isn't executed. I never, I don't know. In my and I'll talk about my experiences, they're never student athletes for me, they're never students. They're never offensors. Their kids they're my kids, and I always tell them the beginning of the year or during the conversations we have, I will treat you like I will treat my own at home, and if it's good enough, we can move on at the end of the day. Sometimes discipline is the greatest gift we can give them, but most likely we don't have to exercise those because, as I said, our kids are Type a's and they're very successful. What they do makes our lives easier. We just have to channel that love and end up building the trust with them. My greatest achievement as a coach probably is that my relationships with my students when they graduate, because while they're going through these struggles and the trials and tribulations, there's hard to see that. But when they when dust settles, when everything really shows, and when they came back, it's a testament was you know, we we just embraced each other like like like Theresa, there is there's no time that time stops when you when you love someone, if you've seen them for a while or if you talk to them, often doesn't really matter anymore. So from the coaches perspective, it's, uh, you keep trying every single like you do to your own children, and hope that it sticks and hope, hope that it will make a difference. And also what I'm hearing from you is I don't really see them as students. I don't see them as athletes. I just see them as my kids. So you really see them as not only human beings and people, but obviously you know somebody one of one of your own kids. And I think that is the difficult balance that coaches do have because on one hand, this is their job, and their job is oftentimes to produce results i e. Wins, and sometimes that including their job stability can kind of get in the way of the relationships because they're trying to navigate all those things. So Lee, you know, and hearing what what he is talking about, but also what I'm talking about, you know, when when coaches are trying to do that balance of like how do we get wins and results but also while really trying to take care of the athlete? What do you what are some signs? I'm really trying to push the conversation so we can get really as specific as possible so athletes and parents and coaches can really walk away from this conversation like, Okay, here's some specific steps to try to achieve the things that we're trying to achieve. Yeah. Um, obviously I had a very positive experience, so I can't attest to a lot of the challenges. Um. I do feel like though, when you put in a lot of work, like so Garrick was part of Gia's like first class, Like if you have good people, create good culture and that and itself builds the trust over time and creates a safe place and it kind of like builds on each other. Um. But yeah, I don't I don't know. I don't feel comfortable, Like I just don't know speaking about like, yeah, where coaches have gone wrong because like I didn't experience that, and okay, let me rephrase it. How what does it? Um? What is a right culture, positive, safe, trusting culture look like? Like? What are some of the things that Gia did specifically? You know, maybe it was something that he said, maybe it was a look, maybe it was um, you know, reaching out on the weekends. I don't know, is there anything specific that stands out into your mind that really helps you get through those tough moments? Um, a lot of them. Um, let's see. I remember being at practice once and I guess I just looked like crap and Gia just like came up to It's like, Hi, like go home, like the fact, like I'm like with my team and I'm trying to do the thing, but like I'm just obviously and so much distress. Like he knew me and he cared enough to like be like you need to like sleep, you need to take care of yourself. Like he did things like that all the time for me and for other people, and like I take that for granted, like as I live my life, like that's how I want to care for people too, And I feel like he kind of showed me that. Yeah, you know, sometimes I think it's really hard. Um. You know, college is such a critical period, right, eighteen to twenty two years old, because that's in time when we are trying to find ourselves and along the way during this period, we're always going to lose a bit of ourselves and trying to find ourselves. And during those moments of stress, sometimes it could be so hard. As I said, I didn't have the courage to say, hey, I'm not doing well, because as an athlete, you don't have a choice. You have to you like, if if you to achieve a certain level, you have to power through anything that's going on to do well, right, And so some of those things can really sometimes get in the way of our personal lives right when we're really struggling. So what was it, you know, and just seeing how emotional you got, you're getting even in a good way, right, because that was obviously a very critical moment or day or period, And why why did you choose that moment about and in the way Gia just even without saying anything, like there wasn't even a conversation. It soundly he just came up to you and was like go home. Yeah. Just someone being so in tune with your life is like very important. Like he was having those common stations with like my my circle of people. He was taking the time to like observe my behaviors. He knows like I care about not only fencing but school. So yeah, it just goes back to the effort to get to know people, to treat them like your family. M M. Yeah. And what year was this? How old were you? If you mind me asking what do you think? Was I a freshman or did this happen a lot of times? Um? Yeah, that's probably was the most one of the most challenging times as a as a coach too, because you have this brilliant athlete, why observing in them in August? She's competing in December Olympics and she has to enter the university right after closing ceremony and who was almost burned out? I mean achieving the Olympics it's the one thing, and competing in that age, it's it's unbelievably hard for psychology of the athlete probably, and then she has to enter to the premed route in the University of Notre Dame. It is one of the toughest. And I see this kid and the first competition goes to we Go and he had she had won like nine straight competitions in us prior to that, and she's struggling. I mean, she didn't make top four first time. And she turns around and goes and she's a break it down at the tournament it was I think it was Columbus, Ohio actually, and and she goes, I'm not having fun here. I'm not enjoying this anymore. That was the worst thing you can hear as a coach. I said, wow, what do we do? So we came back and I called I talked to least the original coach who was the state of the current coach, who was an amazing specialist and human being, and I said, I God, I think we should cut off the a lot of tournaments here, cut off the old Knacks national tournaments. She needs the time to take a break, she needs to decompress a Lee is being stubborn to the core to the next level. It was a lot harder than for example, Garek. When Garrett came in the same situation as a freshman. We played ping pong for like the first two months. We shot the basketball during his lesson times and played ping pong with Lee. She would say no, So I had to be really creative to somehow some way navigate this, not to push her to train or be away some it was. It was a juggling act, but we we succeeded together and she was received receptive to take a time out occasionally and then knowing that her place was safe and your teammates were still appreciative. But I could see how how stressful she was, and if we did not make those efforts, we probably could have lost her for more than that six months or a year. Maybe she could have been done after, you know, with offensing so, and it's probably focusing on individual characters and traits with with what what it makes them greater? Or what what what? How can we do to navigate those those waters. But I'm not I'm not the psychologist. I'm not the psychiatrist. I'm only offensing coach. So. And if again not Gary, who probably would have been here right now with the Olympic gold metal and her love, I think it's still still immense. Well you're yes, you're not a psychologist or a therapist. But this is why we're having this conversation because oftentimes coaches end up being the therapist for student athletes because you are their direct line and their person um and you were the person that's really seeing them every single day. Now, of course, Piers and your teammates are going to be really important. I don't necessarily from maybe this is wrong from my end, but I don't put the onus on them to to try to lift you up. Of course, that's a part of their responsibility, and I think from a from a moral and ethical perspective, I hope that student athletes are doing that for each other. But they are also eighteen to two years old and they are going through their own stuff. So I'm not going to expect my teammates to know what to do if they see me falling off track and all of these warning signs. So how old were you? What year were you at this point? Um? Yeah, so eighteen years old? Okay, oh wow, so this is your freshman year? Got you freshman year? Oh my gosh, I don't. That's why she still cries when she thinks about it, talks about it from PTSD. They're it's like, huh, yeah, so, and what when now that you've had some time because it's been about what ten years now since your freshman year. And when I think back to my freshman year, like my I get a pit in my stomach. It is because it's so hard. I don't even have the words to describe how hard it is. You know, I felt homesick. I'm you know, I'm in the new environment, new campus, new school, new professors, school so hard. It's so hard. I'm like, oh my, I don't even I had be minus in one class because I wouldn't participate because I was so afraid I was gonna say something stupid. I told the professor, I'm like, I can't talk, I'm gonna say something stupid, And like I am, I'm the dumbest person in this classroom right now. So I really get it. So when you look back to your freshman year, what was it about that particular period that was really just overwhelming for you to the point where it was causing you potentially to burn out. I know this about myself now. I am terrible at adjustments. I'm terrible at transitions from like high school to college, college to med's school. Even when I was thinking retiring from fencing, terrible, just not good symptoms like anxiety getting there into the depression mode. But I do want to mention because I think it's kind of important. Is when I was a freshman, and you know, after you know, like we got over a little bit the hump, it's still like super hard. I mean, I'm crushing at GA. I'm winning a lot of stuff still, and we had a sports psychologist on the team. And because I'm winning everything even though I'm like showing signs of like anxiety, They're like, just like, keep doing what you're doing. And I was like, but it's terrible. I was like, but I'm not enjoying it. And that was hard for me because I feel like at that point, I I wish someone had told me of like services or like maybe professional support, because yeah, like you is not as psychologist. There's psychiatrists, and I don't expect him to be, so just like from a professional mental health standpoint, I wish that was more prominent at that time in my life. Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that. And that's why this is why these conversations are so important. Even for me as a doctoral student, I have really had to educate myself of like, Okay, well a sports psychologists, Well somebody a psychologist working with athletes, Well there are sports psychologists, right, No, that's not the case. Sports psychologists oftentimes work on just just the performance aspect working with athletes with regards to what they do on the court, are in field, some of the stuff is off the court. But really, if we're starting to have any sort of um other sort of issues, mental health issues. And I want to use the word mental health carefully because a lot of times when people think of mental health, they immediately think depression, anxiety, dysfunction, and that's not necessarily the case. But with regards to using those counseling services, you're right, like having a therapist or a psychiatrist from if we're looking for medication, having a psychologist, so they can really help us navigate those personal things and all the things that are going on off the court or field. And you know, which is why it's really driving me to go back to school because I found through my own struggles what happens in our personal lives affects what we do on the court or field and vice versa. So, Teresa, did you have you know, watching Lee kind of get really get emotional talking about that freshman year and also Gia stepping in. Did you know all of this was going on? I I didn't know how how how much she struggled, UM because I wasn't there, you know, at this end, because she had good results, and so I think a lot of times, like either Gia or Garrick probably got her through a lot of these things. Um. And but one of the things we have to remember, she did get through that freshman year. Um, she continued to develop and grow, and it's an ongoing process, continuing too mature and learn skills on how to manage your mental health, you know. So, UM, I think that was a very difficult period that she got through, Thank goodness, because probably there's a lot of kids that end up um, not doing so well, you know, whether they end up um just partying too much and doing so well in school. You know, those are the kids. All it takes is one or two out of your team who don't do very well, you know. Um, that's uh, you can't forget those, um, those casualties, you know. So you know, it's it's an ongoing process. Of course, when I watch her and she cries, I always cry too. I mean, she cry, and so I get. The good news about Lee is that she does not hide her feelings very well, and so Gia will be able to see that she needed to go home. The big difference is less that he actually told her to go home right, where some coaches will say just suck it up and keep on working, you know. So I mean, really in just this dynamic, and I appreciate all of you, Lee and Teresa and Gia all really opening up and sharing your story and especially for you Lee being so vulnerable, because my goodness, it happens to every single athlete, and just highlighting this moment. You know, even with the most supportive, in touch and connected parents, of course they're not going to know everything that's going on because they're not there. My parents had no idea, and I'm super close with them too, but they aren't there. And so I think, you know, just highlighting even your experience of having an extremely well built in support system, how things can just kind of fall through the cracks. And so I think this is a um a lesson for all the parents listening out there that even when you were talking to your kid, and even when you were dialed in, you're not gonna you'll never be fully dialed in because you're just not there. You're not there. And even if they were living at home right, there's always things that are going to happen where we're we're just missing the signs, you know. And for me as a mother of two, um, you know, that's a really scary thing. I'm always like, I'm trying not to be overly sensitive, but I'm always just like aware that they're are always signs and I don't want to miss the signs. That's like one of my biggest fears. Gia. I apologize for my cough. The LG Transparent Conversations series is so overwhelming that I kind of cold, But this is what I do as an athlete. We just power through, Gia. How much more time do we have with you? Another five minutes? I'm okay with that. Oh my gosh, Okay, well I'm gonna keep you for another forty five minutes. Fantastic. Um. So, when we're talking about the signs, can you do you when you reflect back to Lee's freshman year and you were noticing some of the signs other than the obvious I'm not having fun anymore, But what other things did you notice that we're just kind of a change of behavior. And I pose that question. That's a very important one for other coaches and staff members and administrators and even for teammates to cure of Okay, what are some signs when someone's not someone just seems off or they're not doing well or they're struggling. A great question. I have a few few my hypothesis here. But first of all, you know, some some difficulties and some resistance then to to to the hardship whatever it is, and the stress. I think it's like Teresa said, it's a It gives ground to growth and development and the strength they're gonna they will need down the road. And we want them to probably as a coaches, to see that they're resisting that stress because going to the operating room, that's what she does. She's amazing. On the fencing strip, she does well. You know that she her stress tolerance is so high. And the college probably and those difficulties were a contributed factor who she is today as of when she got through her freshman year. Then it was a vertical assent to everything she did and um, just remember the small beats and pieces the lessons were became a joy between us interactions on the on we're working professionally rather than being mandatory in the first year. Um, but I was always paying attention to her family dynamics and to usually only statistics I could keep as a college coach. Wait, about seven kids who dropped out of the program in sixteen years I've been a part of it, and all of them had a broken homes. That's how unfortunately is that knowing that her family bond was so strong and never had a doubt that she will sixteen. She's so close to her parents, so close to the siblings, and that is a incredible strength they bring on the table when they come here, no matter the circumstances. That is such a what I learned from not professional has to be a it has to be a something really contributing back to people who come kids would come from the broken families need more support right off the bat. The last five six years, when I realized that was happening, our they put on the radar to the specialists here if something happens, we want those kids to be first taken under you know, their wings of professionals. So but with the least situation, I yes, look at how she developed. She could not talk to me on the phone while she was on a freshman She would either text me or have Garrit to tell me. Now she's and I see her post I see her inspiring the others. What a development. And the young lady who could even talk to me on the phone sect if she would text me how whatever she had, if she would text me, Um, that's what the that's what the how she grew in all those difficulties she had to encounter and she had to power through it. Um. But again I knew that she came from an incredibly tight knit family. Their connection for for each other was nothing but a d percent. Everything wills, everything will just just her learn the ropes and learn how to deal with adversity. So I never had a doubt that you would be superstar. I just I'm just happy that every everything manifested to the highest level. It certainly did. And I mean I think there's no question, I mean learning a little bit more about your personality everything. It sounds like you would have really navigated any obstacle that really came your way. But that sounds like it was a really critical period. It was a it was a launching pad, really and it could have gone in so many different directions. Yeah, you saw a lot of tears, Gia, a lot of tears. He's being nice, so he's not outing me. And I think I really would have like tried to withdraw more if I didn't have people always up in my business asking me if I was okay, Like really just like the repetition and like different ways of like checking in on someone is so important. Yeah, so what are some different ways do you think that somebody could check in with a student athlete? Um? And so let's pretend that we're having a conversation with the eighteen year oldly, because there's an eighteen year oldly listening to this conversation right now, and there's a lot of people who are listening who are around that eighteen year oldly and they want help, but maybe they don't know how to. Um, So what are some ways do you think that was really helpful for you? And I have some ideas. Um, when I was a freshman, I had amazing captain and upper classmen. They were just strong, beautiful woman and I feel like having them kind of approached me is less scary than someone higher up being like what's going on. They'll be like like let's start with a hug and like just see, like you'll spill your beings on the own. So like just using different people, like even like family members too, like that's always a route um family members as an hero, like if Gio Gia could try to, like ask the captain to talk to me like grek my parents. Obviously he can be very direct too, but I think, like you said, for some people that's a little bit intimidating or the relationship isn't there yet. Yeah, it really was. I mean I just don't know, you know, looking back at my experience, I don't think even if I was talking to my eighteen year old self, I would not have been able to go to my coaches and say, hey, I'm really struggling right now. I don't know if I had the language to be able to articulate my emotions too. I felt very comfortable with my assistant coach um oftentimes. But you're right, I think maybe you know, having other people get involved in the conversation and so Gia, I think one thing that you mentioned that was really important was that he reached out to your old coach. Could it sounds like your junior coach uh to to brainstorm a little bit and get to know you and talk about other strategies. And I think that's also really important, And that's that sense of humility of like really being open as a coach and reaching out to other people within that athletes network, whether it's the parents. Some coaches don't want to bring in the parents because they're like, oh, you know, I don't maybe they'll get too involved or whatever. But to really really fully help the athlete, we have to be open two, recognizing where our limitations are and also, you know, for whoever it is, whether it's a trainer, of physical therapist, or even a sports psychologist. Once it gets out of our realm and we feel like we can't we're not able to help this person, we have to be able to hand it off to somebody else and be like, you know what, I'm going to reach out to this person because this person might be able to help you. For me, as a clinician, like I have to realize that there are gonna be certain people that I work with, right, Teresa, There's going to be certain people and correct me if I'm wrong. I want to make sure I'm getting this right because you're the one that's much more experienced. There's gonna be moments when I am working with a client and I'm going to hit a wall and I'm not gonna be able to help them. The way that somebody else would be. So our job is to have that awareness right and say, you know what, I'm going to try to refer you out to somebody else because this person is going to help you more. No, absolutely, and you know how, you try to figure out how they will respond to you and other people. So oftentimes with the therapists that I work with, that's exactly what I say. You have this relationship with them, this is what they need, but they're not going to get it for me, so you need to work on this, and vice versa. They'll say, Okay, they are now listening to me, and so therefore can you take care of this because that's your role. And so that's exactly again when you're talking about this network of people. You know, um, that's exactly what Gio was trying to do, was trying to get all this coloral information right so that he can try to treat this patient. That's what we're going Sorry you're not a patient, but you know what I mean. It's just like, so we're handling this particular athlete by getting all the information you have will make you more effective, you know, to help your your person mm hmm. And I you know, I think the lesson in this particular instance and story is and it's making me honestly reflect on my own a student athlete experience, and so I think the lesson is is that the support system is not about preventing us from experiencing these obstacles. It's really about how we're going to come through and come on come on top. Because I think when I've been reflecting on my experience, and sometimes I've thought, well, if I did something differently, or if if something was different in my life, or if this person reacted differently, or if I went to different school, maybe it would have been different. And I don't. Now I'm really coming to the realization I don't think it would have been different. These obstacles and these struggles are always going to emerge. It's just a matter of when and how, and then having the right support system and everybody working together as a team in a village is really going to help us through it. And Gia, as I'm kind of talking this out, does anything come to mind for you? Do you have any thoughts about this? Well? I Lee gave the interview after she won her first n C double as I discovered her biggest, the greatest weakness. There was a cookies. I didn't know about it, and they asked you if you like, and I can eat cookies every day, five times a day. I was like, oh, so I realized that if I, if you ever encountered the bad day, I knew about it, I will meet with our like a couple of minutes and I'll have a cookie with me, and it's always mitigated. The conversation was always smoother after that, Hey, keb a cookie I've just happened to have in my You don't even know how many cookies over kind of cookies we talked about. Well, they's just like normal chocolate, five massive cookies. We have a great Italian paper here, So I would just pick up the cookie on the way coming here and I will start the conversation with the cookie and then on. It was a lot easier to deal with any anything. But I guess knowing individually what makes them with ease the comfort zone in that situation, um, discovering the comfort zone and and go from there. Honesty obviously it is the number one priority. But the mindset, how do you come put this realization to this conversation. So if it's we learned, what is their comforts or ultimate comfort zone that we could we could communicated with with with open minds and with with with with the with all the security behind of it. So everything else everything is possible aufter that. So for me, it was the cookies. And then sometimes I would drive her to airport and um, I would have a cookie or like a candy bar, and I would open her bag and I would put it in there. I put in there she was going to Korea and she's going for three days. And I opened the bag and I see like four pairs of shoes. I said, what the heck? Why did she need the four pairs of people? Realized that that that that that that stylish young lady right here was It was not just happened today. It was long, long, long coming. But UM, just the small things what makes the things go around. UM, and knowing that we're into with each other, we care for each other. At the end of the day, I'm the recipient of the blessing from the god who the jackpot. There's not enough amount of money in the world that could have won what made me who I am without her coming to us and Garrick and many others. Um, that's a blessing for me, but understanding what makes them comfortable to to to to indirect so that my my secret was spilled by her in the interview, so I had already had his head start. We're so comfortable that he can't get rid of us. Ten years later he might be regretting all of this. Get ready for that for I am phone call in a few years when she's or whenever that is, when she's finally walking away from fencing, which will come, We're gonna get is gonna be ready for the for a lot of cookies, the whole pack of oreos there. I mean, it is, It's so true. It's just like the little things. I mean, whether you are a friend or a teacher, or a coach or a parent. I mean, it doesn't take a lot, but it does take a lot of cognitive effort and just paying attention. And Age had not been paying attention, he would have never known how to really connect with you and how to take down that that that wall of yours. But he because he was paying attention, and he remembered, and he would always bring those cookies for you, and that was his way of communicating. And obviously, like we communicate, not just with our words, but through our behaviors and actions and nonverbal cues. Right, So yeah, I know you have to go shortly, but before we wrap up this conversation and go to the Q and A portion, any lasting thoughts from each of you about everything that we've unpacked today and we've really impact a lot. And I just thank you so much for opening up and and sharing your thoughts and being so vulnerable. It's you're really going to help so many people. But we're about support systems and the responsibility role that we all have in helping student athletes. UM, any lasting thoughts for our listeners out there to resel go to you first. One of the things that Lee and I talked about was, you know, perhaps when students come UM to campus, like in the beginning, even before they have any sort of issues mental health issues, is provide education for them about how to skillfully manage things, UM, their emotions and um, you know, their moods, even before they have the breakdown, you know, and to make it UM okay to to say that they're having problems. UM. But again, I think about education even though you think it's not relevant to you because you're perfectly a strong UM well developed UM student and athlete. That's why you're getting the scholarship, right, I mean want to keep that face up because when you UM, when you are there as an athlete, no matter what UM sport, right, I mean you you feel like you're a big deal and you should put on that face and keep that face. But if you provide education to say, UM, listen, if if you need help, it's gonna be here and it's okay. That doesn't make you weak, you know. Just because you start UM feeling emotional and you're not doing as well, you know there's help out there and it doesn't make you any less, you know. So I think just kind of providing that for the athletes when they first come maybe something that's helpful. Yeah, that's such a great idea. Thank you, Lee. Any lasting thoughts, Um, I'm just very grateful to give to my parents for being so amazing and just readering. Like you said, like they are absolutely credible, but I still struggled. So everyone should just you know, keeping very thoughtful, but also be patient with yourself and just work through the process with as much communication as you can. Yeah, yeah, thank you for sharing that, and yeah, any lasting thoughts about our topic and conversation. Today. Um, I consider ourselves the coach teachers. Then there was a two professions in the world cannot make a mistake, the doctors misdiagnosed the patient and the teachers misleading to the going to the different directions. So, um, we all have to realize that well being off our students is more important than anything any any results out there. And if we could keep it in mind most of the time because we're competitive as well, things can be Okay, Oh amazing. I to adopt Gia is my coach, even though I know nothing about fencing, But maybe you can be my my kind of like life mentor coach. Gia. I do you kinda he feels so just comfortable to be around. If you get a phone call for me at four am, you know, you can just blame it on on this panel and LG right now. Sorry, we grew up, We grew up with our athletes and where we are today because of the experiences they taught us as well. So I'm so grateful for Lee and Derek and every woman or man who came through our programs. That's where we are because of them. Amazing well, Teresa, Lee, Gia it's been such an honor. We're going to continue our conversation here. He has got many other student athletes who were going to call him at four am, and so we're gonna let him go, but we're going to continue our conversation. We'll take a quick break and then we'll we'll move forward with our Q and a portion. But yeah, thank you so much for joining us today. It was such an honor getting to know you. Thank you so much. Take care by really hope you enjoyed today's conversation and took something away from it. Stay tuned next week for another episode of the LG Transparent Conversation series on student athlete mental health and well being. For all things LG Transparent Conversations, be sure to check out their website LG dot com Forward slash US forward slash Transparent Dash Conversations. I know that was a mouthful. Again, that's LG dot com Forward slash US Forward slash Transparent Dash Conversations. Also for other episodes of the next chapter, be sure to check out our homepage on I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcast. You can also watch the full version of these interviews on YouTube. Just search for the next chapter with prims to rip pet and of course you can follow me on all my social media platforms at PRIM Underscore Sir Ripapat the next chapter with prim Sripapat is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from I heart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.