The Next Chapter with Prims. Rippabad is a production of My Heart Radio. Hey everybody, it's prim Welcome to the Next Chapter, presented by Baron Davis and Slick Studios. Today, we continue our best of series as we re air some previous episodes of the Next Chapter. And for some of my newer listeners out there, I just hope you've been really enjoying these few weeks of some of the oldis and as I mentioned last week, is also giving me some time as we prepare for season three of the Next Chapter, So stay tuned, it's going to be really good. Today we are re airing my interview with volleyball legend and trail blazer Gabby Rece. Not only did I love this interview, but it was just a cool experience for me to be sitting there with her in her house in Malibu, California, just kicking it talking about life, love, sportes, and how she achieved all her success despite the things she experienced as a child. Was just a dream come true. And I think what struck me the most about this conversation was just how down to earth and humble she is, and I think that really comes through in our conversation so sit back, relax, and without further ado, here's today's best of episode with Gabby Race. The old My transition is transitioning out identities. Welcome to the next chapter with prim Ceripopat is not the idea of deserving anything. It's the idea of I'm going to do the best I can. I'm going to be as honest as I can in the work I'm doing, and I'm going to receive Race. It becomes my way because life unfair ident identities. Hey guys, welcome to the next chapter. I'm your host, Brims RiPP A pat this week's guest is a trailblazer and icon, a volleyball legend, fashion model, TV personality, New York Times bestselling author, wife, mother of three. She has and continues to do it all. She is Gabrielle Race. Gabrielle who typically goes by a Gabby. As many of you know, at midst she fell into volleyball. At twelve, she was already six ft tall, and by fifteen she was six three. With height and athleticism on her side, she went on to play volleyball at Florida State, where she would set school records and both solo blocks and total blocks and became the Knowles first ever volleyball player to be inducted into its Hall of Fame. After college, she played professionally for a number of years. She became a two time Offensive Player of the Year with the Women's Beach Volleyball League end won the first ever Beach Volleyball World Championships. She was also Nike's first ever female spokesperson and the first female athlete to design a shoe for Nike. In addition to her athletic accomplishments, yes, there's more, she also had a burgeoning career in modeling and entertainment, which actually began while she was in college. She was named one of the wonder Women of Sport by Rolling Stone in and one of the five most Beautiful women in the World by l magazine. She's also appeared on just about every television network imaginable, from MTV, E Entertainment to The Today Show and even movies. And to top it all off, she's married to an icon himself, one of the most prolific surfers of all time, Laird Hamilton's. While Gabby's journey seems like quite the fairy tale, her upbringing was far from it. As a child. She moved multiple times, was under the care of multiple people, from California to Mexico to Long Island, West Indies and Florida. The unpredictable nature of her childhood made her extremely self reliant and adaptable. Her story is really fascinating. The moment she agreed to do this interview, I immediately hopped on a plane out to California because I knew I had to do this one in person. And to be completely honest, she's someone I really looked up to as a young female athlete growing up in the nineties. Gabby was part of a tremendous movement that helped redefine feminine beauty ideals. She made muscular athleticism not just acceptable, desirable and beautiful. So, without further ado, let's get to the interview. Here we are at her house in Malibu. Ladies and gentlemen, Gabby Race, Hey, Gabby, Hi, it's so exciting to sit here with you. Thank you very much for opening your home. There's not a lot of people that would completely open their home to all of our cameras and us coming through, but your house seems to be one of those houses where there's just constantly people coming through. Yeah, it's well, yeah, it's a home. That's what holmes are. Well, not all homers are like that, though, Yeah. I think that's what holmes are for. I think they're meant for people to connect and get together and then disperse and connect and disperse. So thank you for driving up here and being here now. It's it's beautiful up here in Malibu with the open house. Is that kind of in an indication of your and and your husband's personality a little bit about being kind of just open. But you know, both learned and I grew up on islands, learned from Hawaii, and I grew up in the Caribbean. And I think that that is more of a representation of those types of cultures, which is that you share and extreme change. And people have shown me great generosity as well as Laird when I was much younger and um and I always say like, I had several hard times as a young person and people, you know, open their homes and gave me food and love. And I think that once you experience that, I believe it's hard to remove yourself from that idea. And it doesn't mean certain days like people are showing up and you're like I always joke that always sit at my counter, and that through the gate because everyone will come in and train and stuff, and and maybe you're not prepared, but it's just because you're not prepared to see a bunch of people, you know. But otherwise, UM, I just think that's how I was raised and and it's a it's a powerful source of energy and support that UM is really valuable. As you know. This this particular show is about life transitions and how athletes cope with various life transitions. And the majority of the interviews that I've that I've conducted with athletes, a lot of it is focusing on something pivotal significant, oftentimes around injury during the career or how they pivot away from sport from that identity. Yeah, but with you, I don't you seem to be somebody who has those very seamless from transition to transition. I have a lot of fear, so I'm always transitioning way early. No, I'm I'm I'm partially joking. Well I am and I'm not. You know, because people have asked me this question quite a bit, and I can I can lay it out very very simply for me personally and everyone is different, So I you know, the way I grew up, One of my kind of chinks in my armor was I then started looking for stability. So like when I was at Florida State and I started modeling at eighteen, I bought a house at nineteen and Tallahassee because I was like putting roots down and like very serious and so sometimes when you're hardwired that way, you oftentimes look ahead. And the other thing that was in my corner was believe it or not, the fact that I played professional beach volleyball, which is a very small platform. From early on, you're pretty realistic about how far you can go. And that means, if I'm being if I'm being completely direct, you just see the ceiling quickly on at least the revenue that you can earn. So by the time I was so I turned pro two, I had already played college ball and modeled, and that was I modeled, not because oh that was something that was like a lifelong dream. I was like, oh, that's an opportunity, and um, it was incredible. You could travel and they paid you and it was great and um, and then when I turned professional, I thought, Okay, so you're gonna spend your time training and to be as good as you can be in volleyball. In the meantime, what else are you gonna do? And so then I started doing TV and writing and so what happens is simultaneously you're developing that skill set where oftentimes when you're an athlete, especially if you're on a big, juicy platform like the NBA or the women's tennis or anything like that, not to mention, you're told every second of the day where to be and what to do, so that when you do have free time, you're not gonna sit there and go, oh, let me do other jobs. So volleyball in that way, even though like you don't maybe make it up as much upfront if you will, Um, it was great because you learned to hustle and you learned that there's a limitation early. So if you ask me about those transitions seamlessly, I think it was due to that as the route. And then when you start to understand is you go, hey, I don't want to be any one thing. I don't want to be a volleyball player just a volleyball player. I don't want to be just laird's wife or just my kid's mom Um, I'm me a person human being first, then I'm a female, and then I'm all these other titles and identities and how do I want to express myself as a person, and and that just seems for me personally, it was just a really um it was a less frustrating way to go through life because then you weren't like, oh, well, I'm thirty now or thirty five, so I can't do this anymore. What am I gonna do? I just always look ahead and go what's shiny to me, what's exciting me, what piques my interest, And I simultaneously to being in where I am, I kind of start to look at that ahead right. Well, I feel like that's when that's where athletes get in trouble, right, as you were just mentioning where if you're in the n b A or especially NFL, particularly male athletes, it seems as though that when they're growing up, they're like, I want to be a professional athletes, and you see the money in the vein and you get sucked into that. But there's also something else that it's important to to make note of. To be a professional male athlete is more competitive, Yeah, so you better focus especially if you're talking about one of the big four sports and including men's tennis, actually take it back, because a lot of guys play tennis. Yeah, and a lot of guys are good. So I will say also because less females are vying for those spots. If you're pretty dedicated to your sport and you're talented enough and mentally tough enough and you have access, um it is I would say, I'm gonna go on a limb and say it's less competitive. And then dynamics are just a little bit different. And also, you know, my conversation with female athletes and male athletes is a little bit different. And depending on what era you're coming from, why are you laughing, well, because you're so different? Yeah, yeah, it is right, And also depends what error you're coming from. So if I were to talk to a female athlete who is tomorrow, I'm talking to Cheneo Glue McKay, who's number one overall pick you know, and she's twenty five, and it's just completely different versus when I'm talking to Julie Faddy and she kind of reminds me of you a little bit. Where you guys were the ceiling on what you could achieve as a professional female athlete was very low, especially at that time, you know, coming up in the eighties or nineties or early two thousand's, So he didn't have a choice. And we were the most expansive to the women right before us laid down all the groundwork. So when we came in, it was so much easier for us. I mean, Faudy on all you know, her teams that she was on and played on World Cup. Those girls, they got a lot of attention compared to anyone before them. They got paid well, my Nike contract, I mean that was like so unusual to be paid that much money for those types of things. So in some weird way, also though you have to remember it was also easier for us than it is now because in a way now it's more competitive. Nobody nobody has endorsements, everybody's ambassadors. You know what that means, we're not going to pay you. Yeah, there's there's a lot there's a lot of stuff with that, even and brands have to deal with like fifty channels of communication. When I was coming up, you know, you know you had like ABC, NBC, CBS, Fox, like you knew exactly how to hammer it down and get your message out and connect with the end user. Now they everyone's scrambling, Look, well, who do they connect with and who's paying attention. It's so in certain ways they have more opportunity because they can take charge, right, And in other ways it's much harder if you're a new person and people are consuming things in niche pockets where like, for example, let's say Fauty or the women's US soccer team in those days, did an interview with the Today Show. A lot of people were watching. Now, um, it's a different deal. So it's so it has both. For sure, I totally understand what you're saying, but I don't want to take anything away from what you and Foudy and many other female athletes at that period accomplished because and I've been thinking about for a while coming into this interview, I'm trying to think of another female athlete who was able to jump around and transcend so many different boundaries and industries. And I feel like you were maybe not one of the first, because there's always somebody before that, right, but but you did a really really good job of doing that, And I'm so interested I think the transition that I'm most interested with you is probably how your childhood, because I know your childhood was so unique and there was a lot of um instability, not necessarily in a bad way or maybe it was, but but how you were able to develop the skills necessary to succeed later on in life. And also I think maybe becoming a mother. I always say it was very hard for me, especially well I was learning volleyball in the fly in college, and I've talked about this quite a bit about being groomed to be a champion and the difference. So I was not room to be a champion, and so that mindset is very different than the mindset I had, which was, I hope I do a good job. I'm gonna work harder than everybody so that I can earn it, so I deserve to be here. And also I don't want to stand out. I want to be like you know, I want to I'm a part of a team. You know, you could even talk to me and him about this because I knew her in the days when she really it was a struggle for her to be singled out because she was on a team. I mean, I think it almost pained her. And I had a different version of that, I think less in certain ways. But I think for me trying to get myself allow myself to win and to be better than in the moment, at least on the court, because at that moment you have to try to be better than somebody. And that was like against everything how I was feeling inside. And so I think trying to allow myself to win, not to apologize for that, you know. I used Carrie Walsh as an example. When carry wallsh steps on a volley book art, she expects to win. If she doesn't win, the only person she thinks that was in charge of that was herself. I don't think it ever occurs to her that someone actually would be better than her right in a great way. And so I I really had an internal struggle with that for a really, really long time. And then when I went professional and I had I did have a lot of opportunities, it's sort of alienated and isolated me from the other athletes that I was playing against, and that was really hard for me. I never showed it and it didn't keep me from pursuit, but it was very difficult. And so I'd say the hardest transition was saying this is that none of us really deserve anything. That's the thing. Even if you work hard and you look like I deserve to win, it's not the idea of deserving anything. It's the idea of I'm going to do the best I can. I'm going to be as honest as I can in the work I'm doing, and I'm going to receive grace if it comes my way. Because life is unfair. And so I think when you've lived one way, like when I lived and when I was younger, and it was hard, and then sort of it started going very well by the time I was eighteen, stuff was like on my side. But then when it started to go my way, I didn't know how to receive that. I didn't feel worthy of that. I didn't understand that. And then when you what you make peace with is it's not that we're worthy or more worthy, it's that we're getting we receiving grace because we can go through the world and see injustices and things that are unfair everywhere everywhere. And so I think it isn't about trying to understand that. It's about switching and saying, okay, you know what, I'm receiving an opportunity here, So I'm going to really honor that. I'm gonna show up, I'm gonna do my job really well. I'm gonna be polite to people. Um, I'm just gonna do it the best way that I can, and that is how I can show that I appreciate the opportunity. So that those transitions were very very That particular transition was very hard for me. How old were you at that point? I turned pro twenty two. I went to college at seventeen, and I fell into both. That's the other thing. No expectation on either any of those. I never expected to go and play college athletics on a scholarship, and I certainly never expected to be a professional athlete. So they're they're the other thing. And that's sort of interesting, is like you're like, oh, this is what's happening, and I'm building the path as I go, and you're supposed to represent something and then you you know it's a imposter syndrome, like am I really that? And all of those things, and then you get to a place where you go, yeah, no, I'm gonna bust my ass and work super hard and I will sort of honor my own code of living and how everybody else feels about it. I can't control. And you know, you get meaner as you get older in that way of like you know, you're not trying to make everybody happy, especially as a female. I'm not trying to make sure everybody's feelings are okay. I'm trying to check in with myself and say, are you doing X, Y and Z? Are you clear about your reasons? Is who's in charge right now? Is that you? Is that your ego? What's happening? And if I can get kind of clear on that, I'm sort of cool with letting the chips fall where they are. But that took me a really a good amount of time. I think it takes all. I think it takes everybody, including women, a very long time. That's why I like thirty, because thirty gets a little bit like I'm just gonna tell you how I feel. Um So, I think that was helpful. I ended up in a relationship with Lard when I was twenty five, and you know, obviously Lard doesn't he doesn't battle any of that. Um So, I think that was also helpful to be around that influence of somebody who was just incredibly direct and also more confident and capable as an athlete. Um, and better what he does than I certainly would ever be at volleyball to be around somebody, I don't know if you ever had this when you went out and played tennis, did you every days where you're like, I don't even know if I know how to do this? Ye? You, But you're asking the wrong person because I am one of those people that I could I could have literally if I if I ever won the US Open the next day, I could potentially be like I don't know if I'm really good enough. That's just that's just my personality. It's it's constantly doubting myself. So you're asking the wrong person. But I mean some most athletes, I mean, at some point whether they experience like I hope I can hit this ball or I hope I can put it where I need to put it, or have that control. And I have asked Lard. And Lard is also, by the way, the most humble person I know, because he participates in these large forces, so he knows like I'm a peon, I'm a grain of sand. You know, Um, did you ever go out and think like you wouldn't be able to surf like you didn't know how an He's like, no, because it's a very intimate relationship. It's a very different thing than I ever had with volleyball. You're talking to somebody to three years old. The punishment you have to take to be good at that, you better you know what's going on because you've taken you've gotten lickings every which way. But surfing is a very spiritual. There's a spiritual element to surfing, at least when I I when I speak to a lot of my friends who are big California and you know, and but they're surfing. And then like the kind of surfing layer does, the amount of lessons, the volume of information and knowledge you must have in order do that kind of surfing in that environment, you just you're a professor of what you're doing. And I would say, like, you know, I was sort of working at my doctorates and I kind of felt like I floated through a lot of it, and I was like just trying to be a good student and a good soldier and do it. And and so that that transition that wasn't that was an interesting transition, but also again unexpected. It's one thing when you grow up and you go, Okay, that's a target. That's a target. That's the target. I wasn't that wasn't me. And then um transitioning out of volleyball, in certain ways, I really miss competing and that high level of of like fine tuning something like just you get to a place sometimes where you're like, oh, I really can get it to do what I wanted to do. You know, you'd be halfway through the season, you'd be at the right weight, you wouldn't be injured, your team would be flowing and have chemistry. It was like, oh, that feels good. It's like tuning an instrument. I missed that. But there was also probably a part of me that was relieved m that I didn't have to like being an environment that I felt like because and I put that on me, nobody put that on me. That I felt like I always had to explain myself, you know, like in this way because I did get an unusual amount of attention, but I was also doing I would fly, like go tape an MTV show and then then fly to Florida for my to own tournament, and people didn't understand also that that was you always had to do the extra you know, it wasn't like I just sat there. It's like, no, you have to go do the extra and also you have to do that skill like a professional person. So it wasn't like I just showed up and was like the expectation was, oh, well, because I'm good at this thing over here. That No. I treated them very separate and took it serious and treated it like a different skill set and and tried to approach it like that. But yeah, so I think for that I might have been a little bit relieved. And then also the other side of it, um and then transitioning like to motherhood, there is no transition. You just get dropped into that, you know. And first of all, Laird came. Um her my oldest daughter, who's my stepdaughter, who's my oldest daughter. Her mother was is a is a great mother, and so she was you know generous, and that she allowed me to co parent with her. So I had practice with her for about seven eight years before I had my first biological child. I can't got eased into it a little bit. Well, oh no, that was like I love I'm having a chemical reaction. I love you, and I have to side right now if I'm ready to be someone step mom because it's like it wasn't a game. But um, I don't think there's anything to prepare you for motherhood except the faith and the confidence that you will love this person and you will do the very best that you can, and you will make mistakes and you will make good decisions, and it will be it will be the most it will be the most humbling thing that you ever do. I used to joke, like, oh, for our practice, and go lift weights and take red eyes. Man, that's child's play. Babies and teenagers and like these are the life lessons because you love them so much and it's so important, and it is your duty that you take a look at yourself in a real way. I mean you don't have to, but I think you pay later. I'd rather pay right in the moment. If your kid inadvertently is like you suck at this and you're sucking and you don't get it and it's wrong, that is your moment to just pay. Just do it then, because you don't want them to be thirty and be like you never listened to me. You never, that's the worst. You don't want to you don't want to look that down that barrel and sometimes you can be like, oh, there ten or there thirteen or whatever. But sometimes just to be willing to look at it. It doesn't mean you have to take it all in, because they say means stuff to manipulate or work you over. But transitioning to being a mom, I was, I think I was also ready. I was thirty three when I first had my first um, you know, when I had got pregnant, and then Brodie almost I was in my late I was thirty seven, and so I think I was also ready. But um, you know that is such a personal experience too. I think when people go, well, you should do this or you should do that. I would never have the audacity to tell anyone about parenting. The only thing I always o men if there, if it's a male female relationship, if your chicks just had a baby, treater like your girlfriend, because you you're already like, who am I you have a new baby? You know, listen, I was athletic, my body went back pretty quickly. But still you're just like, I think I'm staying home to nurse all day. I'm not really sure. I'm so confused. And also it feels like the natural thing to do. Yeah, you feel quiet, you know, like your brains like is it time to start training yet? You know, like it's been eight days, you know, whatever the weird thing you do. Um. But I think each person has to really trust themselves. I want to start from the very beginning because I'm curious about your just upbringing and our childhood's really shape not only who we are, but they influence how we behave, how we parents, how we carry ourselves. Maybe we we role model our behavior or maybe what we see something in our parents and we're like, we're not going to do that. We're going to change the sew. So you were born in California. I was born my parents. Yeah, so my parents, I don't think they knew each other for very long. My fathers from Trinidad and my mother's from New York and they met in nineteen sixty nine in California. Maybe they meant sixty. I don't know. I was born right at the beginning of seventy. So that's what that money. That's my assumption. So you're born in California, My parents were not together for long. I went to Mexico City. My mother was training dolphins in a circus, and then I moved. Yeah, and now she went to Mexico. You went to Mexico with her, with her, And then when I was about to I caught hooping cough in Mexico and like a teenage hangout friend of my mom's whose husband had just returned from Vietnam, who was like my mom's neighbor like two blocks down in Long Island, came to take care of me. And then I was brought to Long Island and I lived there till I was seven with that couple. And when during that time, my father was died in a plane crash when I was five, and so um, I moved back in with my mother, who then married my stepfather who's from Puerto Rico. So that's why I could have done the Caribbean, which was great for me because my my father and that whole side of my family is West Indian, so growing up in St. Thomas, a little bit different culture but very similar, it got me to really understand and be a part of my family's culture. Um and listen, it was very good to grow up in the Caribbean because I got grounded into things that I really believe in, which is pretty simple, things like if we have if we if we're if we have good food, and we have good friends, and we worked really hard, and and life is pretty simple. Life is very simple. I'm not in that way. I'm not a complicated person. I don't need a lot of things. I'm not striving to perfection living in the midwestl I was born in Mexico, Missouri. Like, and when you live in an environment like that, you learned to you don't need all the hooplah. Yeah, it's not like growing up in New York City. Yeah, it's like what school do you go to? I'd be like I should punch you in the face, Like who cares? Like either you're smarter or not. And and I appreciate, like, you know, if people can excel and do that, I celebrate that. But I wasn't raised with all those sort of forms and obligations and ways of conduct and such. So the freedom was I could do it anyway that I wanted to. Mm hmm. At the time, it seems scary, but looking back, you go, oh, I'm allowed to put whatever I want onto the campus because nobody has implemented their expectations on me. And so that part was amazing. And I think in a way when you say, oh, you did all these things, it's because I didn't know not to. It was like, oh, that seems pretty interesting. Let's try of that. You know, I haven't. That's interesting because some people would never I think to do so because you know, because you lived it. Let's say, you know, if you lived it so called simple life. People who come from simple upbringing don't always aspire for those things because they think it's unreachable. And that's where you have to dream. I think where you're dreaming. Where where did the encouragement to dream come from? What was your mother? What do you remember? What kind of the influences? But younger than seven or eight do you remember? You know? I think it was just um my aunt Marette, who's the lady who raised me, who had like a high school education, to my uncle Joe, like he hed worked in construction and for the sanitation department. These were these are very um you know, uh, I don't want to say. You know, it's like living what we would call a sort of you know, everyday life. And she is where you live with them in Long Islands. Yeah, from two to seven, and I listen, I was five ft at seven years old, tall and skinny, long blonde hair, kind of strange looking. My Innurette was five ft tall, overweight, and she's say, sided to me, kid, you know, like you're different than us. And I think I understood that in a way. What I saw with them is they took what life gave them. I don't know that it occurred to them or people around them said it was okay to go, well what else would you like to do or what else do you think is possible. I think they just went, oh, this is life, and we'll get jobs and we'll buy a house and we'll do it that way. And I think the strangeness of my size and appearance also maybe put me in a place where I thought, well, I'm never really going to fit in. I probably knew that early, like thirteen twelve, thirteen or six ft at twelve, I'm not gonna fit in. I'm not going to have to leave it to the Beaver family life. We know that. So I just think it was about not having any limitations or hardwiring about the way it's supposed to be. I think it's just was about like, well, how do I feel? And growing up in the Caribbean, you're big on instincts. When you have to take care of yourself, you're very you know, you pay attention, you can see people and read things very quickly. And and also I had, besides Manner and Uncle Joe always along the way, people that were friends with my mother that were impactful. And then when I moved to Florida, I had a basketball coach that was really great. I ended up living with the principle of Kazik Christian High School my senior year. He let me come to the school. My junior year, my mom was not going to come back. Him and his wife with two young children, said send her here. Then my college coach to silver Naud, So what I would say, Also, I always had perfectly some very loving and strong adults that said we're gonna help this kid out. So I had that all along in the way. So it's really important to identify it wasn't me like I'm so brave and marching through. Simultaneously, I had people that stuck their neck out for me, that impacted me in a real way. That's uh, that's unbelievable. But then there were definitely role models in your life, There's no question about that. And you had a support system the amount of change, because just the sheer fact of like moving is can be life changing and for some kids, depending on their personality and their dynamics, it can be traumatic. You know. But to go from California and Mexico, West Indies, Long Island back to you know, Caribbean and then to Florida and then you went to a super conservative Christian school. But how are you able to navigate because those are very different cultures and environments. Do you remember how tough it was or or did it seem just like running the mill? I think I'm all of those things. I think we're all all of those things. That's the thing. I think we're all Islanders. I think we're all New Yorkers. I think we're all from the South. Um. I just had the chance to develop all the sides of all of them because it was, hey, am I connecting with this person? So whether they're Puerto Rican or sat Tommian or from Long Island or whatever, are we connecting? And so that was my litmus culture test. My culture was like, how how do I feel about you know, the people? How did you know to connect? Because I've talked to different you know, and talking to so many different people and athletes, Um, and people that are some of them have had to move and they were pivotal moments that were really tough. M Um, and I think coming into this interview, I really wanted to dive into your childhood because I was so curious about it. Because I found that because of your trajectory of your athletic my non trajectory, no, your trajectory um, your upward dynamic firework career, I was wondering what shaped her or was she just different? Because I've I've definitely run into those people where I've talked to athletes who have come out of Compton and it's like, you know what you were. It was your role models, but you were cut from a different cloth, just smarter than a lot of other people. You know. Okay, I'm gonna give you like a weird, really weird reference because it seems like it makes sense. So that day I was driving my car, took one of my kids to school, and um Riza was being interviewed by Joe Rogan. You know the Okay, um, this guy has an accent, it's sort of New York. It feels like there's a splash of Southern in there. Smartest smart m and when you listen to the concepts and what he's talking about, you go, oh, that's a smart person. And I think, you know, I'm not sitting here, I'm a smart person. I think you know, in a lot of ways, I was just born the way I was born, with then the environment, having all these things helping form uh or further develop that, and then making choices along the way, recognizing, like you know that you're fortunate and not taking it for granted. So I think if you say, hey, why have you kept going on and on and on, it's because early I was able to say, it's not that you're so good, it's that you're really fortunate, and so take care of that. And so there's a difference, and we can get confused in thinking it's us and I'm so smart and I'm so talented and I'm so strong, versus Okay, I might have a little of this into that, and I'm so fortunate that I get to be in this moment and I get to be the one who gets to occupy this space. And what that does, I believe, is that if you take care of that, you get those chances again and again. If you abuse it, or you don't recognize it, it gets passed on to someone else. And so I've always had that, and I've never had the desire to do things for attention. I've never made a move in that way because I'm like, well, that's popular or that's what everybody's doing. I always checked in with myself and thought, well is that what does that feel good to me? And who I am and where I think I'm heading as a person, and then um, and also, hey, does that make sense for the big picture? You know? I think that that's sometimes important to ask ourselves, like, hey, is this part of something that's gonna go towards this this life that I'm painting, And because it's a little bit like wasting time if you if you don't do that. So you know, time is very very precious. And I think I've always sort of kind of looked at stuff and thought, well, it doesn't really make sense. Um. I love the distinction about I'm not necessarily good at these things. I'm paraphrasing here, but but you're fortunate. And there's a difference because when you shift the perspective on saying I'm fortunate, there's like a layer of humility underneath that where it's I'm lucky to have these things, so I'm going to take advantage of them, as opposed to somebody who would internalize some of the gifts that they might have been given and identify with that, and they lose the plot that group because also everyone around them is willing to tell them that story. And so again coming from a small platform, I didn't have a group that coddled me that way, nor do I like that. It makes me very uncomfortable when people try to coddle me or like that I'm special. It makes me very uncomfortable. So in terms of your family, you're saying anyone, no one coddled you. Yeah, But and I don't like I'm married to a person who tells me the truth. And if I was like, I'm a princess, he'd be like, you're crazy. You know. It's like, you know, did you say I'm special? You know? So I think it's I think it's also saying I'm going to stround myself with people that are gonna really love me and tell me straight. But also, you know, many talented people there are in the world who are smart and beautiful and athletic and genius and either they don't get the opportunity or whatever, or they got in their own way or whatever the million reasons are. So I think if you think, oh, I'm the only one, um, you're wrong. I think when you recognize, oh, I got into this position, I'm going to really take care of it. I mean, I think this this conversation is like on a on a broader sense, but if we narrow it down to sports, we can connect the dots with athletes who struggle and they internalize the gifts that they have and they say, I am the best. There is nobody else like me out there. This is who I am. I am talented, I'm more athletically gifted, where it's just like the shift in perspective that you were talking about. It's like, well, yeah I'm smart, and yeah I'm tall and beautiful, whatever, but I'm fortunate. But this is not all I am. Okay, But if I'm a fifteen year old boy and I'm from you know, some project and somewhere in the city, maybe I need to feel like I am the best because maybe that's my only way out. But then we get to a certain place where we have to then hopefully start to expand so I think sometimes there's a place for that. If you and I are going to war, then we like, you know, I better think like I'm gonna destroy everyone. I'm gonna kill everybody. You better have that mentality. So there's like this weird line where I would never sell an athlete the billing. You should be grateful. You should be grateful, but maybe right in this moment, depending on where you are in your development or your time on your story, you might need to believe because maybe not one other person is telling you you're the best. So I think, but certainly for professional athletes, it would be good to go. It's a funny thing though, because if you think I'm the best, does that help you beat people? I don't know. Like, if you're a tennis player, you're out in war alone, maybe in that moment you have to be like, this guy sucks, I'm gonna I'm gonna crush him. It's so it's so based on the player that so maybe when we get off that square, whatever that square is, and we get into life again, we just step back for a moment, that's all. So I think it's it's rack focus, right, it's going in and out and uh, it's it's believing it can happen. It's dreaming it can happen. It's willing it to happen. It's focused that it can happen. And then when we're off the square, that we say and I'm so I'm so very grateful and when I walk around in the world, I'm gonna show that by the way conduct myself and treat others and things like that. But okay, if we got on the square, maybe you need that because it's hard. That's the other thing professional sports. It sucks in that way. It's hard. You're getting your asp, you're injured, you have to perform, people criticize you. So within that you have to be kind of tough, and you better believe in yourself. So I understand the other side too, you know, believe I've had internal dialogue when I'm on the court, like I'm gonna kill you, you know what I mean, and not in the real way, but like, or you're not going to beat me today, you know, And when I don't have that, or I'm like, god, she's really big and she jumped so high. I'm done. I think it's you're right there. There has to be an exchange and ability to float in and out of the space. And I think when you're in their space and your training, you have to have that mentality of like, I'm the best. You have to be focused and hyper focus and all that jazz. But I think it's more of when you're off the court or field, that's where the perspective it's like, Okay, let's let's expand the focus a little bit more and try to be a little bit more objective. Well, and that's going to impact your bigger story. Your ability to do that well then impact your friendships, your relationships, your work life. Like that ability then impacts everything else that's off the square, which the square only lasts so long. We can only be on the field or the court or whatever for so many years. But we can take all those lessons and all the things that we learned that helped us develop and redirect that at anything we choose next. And I think that's the thing that athletes don't realize what a gift that is to them, is like, hey, if you can do that, you can take all that it took to do that and do something else. And you also have to be willing to start at the bottom, be humble, do it yourself, show up on time, Like if you have a meeting, you have to show up on time. You don't get to just float in whenever you want or do whatever you want. So I think it's it's sort of all it's that vault. It's all of it coming together. You know. Uh, you seem like somebody who is right personality, right soul, if you will, in the right body. And I really tastic. I've always felt like a mismatch. Well because I say that because, um, it's happened when I'm talking to basketball players for the most part, you know, because not everybody. And there was one athlete in particular where he is very tall, over six five, talking like seven ft, but he's a gentle giant, and people would expect him to be a certain way because you're tall, and they expect you to be authoritative and commanding on the basketball court, maybe even off of it. But he was internally he was an introvert and somewhat shy and reserved, and so that didn't always match well with his body. But in all so, especially you know, going through a growth spurt can be uncomfortable. You know, if you're twelve years old and you're standing out. How tall were you at twelve years six? Yeah, and then by the time you're fifteen year six three years and I mean, yeah, what kinds of things did you experience going through a growth spurt? Um? And did you feel comfortable or uncomfortable standing out? I was I never wanted to be. I never want I didn't mind that I was tall. My mother is very tall, and um, I never personally had a problem with it. It did get tiring that people always commented or you go places, and especially once you start going through puberty and then people start staring at your men much older than you start staring at you because you seem older. UM. I never really tripped out that much about it. Um. And it was great because I think we all need something that makes us a little weird or strange, um to help us kind of ask ourselves, like who am I? Like? Do I have to have the haircut the same as that girl who's cute and five seven? And I can't wear the clothes that she's wearing that are on you know, popular, So like who am I? And then what you start to do is it liberates you from any of that defining you. You know, I think the only thing. My hope is the things that define me are are my actions and my thoughts, and so I think that was very very helpful in getting to that quick. And you got to that pretty quickly when you're very quick, really super quick. Yeah. I mean I always tried a little bit to take the square and shove it in the circle, but you know, it never really works. It was just not good luck. You're like, is that was that? Is that what that style was supposed to do? Yeah? Okay you so, so you know I always, of course I made some attempts, but in terms of that template where they gave you the permission to just be different and be you, because that's that that inside that wisdom is like I think maybe the best wisdom and philosophy that that anybody could adopt and live through. Because if you can adopt that and learn how to really live through that, you will be absolutely unapologetic about who you are and you don't give a ship about anybody because you don't play the comparison game. You know that's fact. Well, I think sports does that. You know, that's playing with girls. And plus I was on a team when you when you're playing with like a big, strong dynamic, athletic, powerful, beautiful women. You learn to celebrate them and their differences. If you sat and tried to compare, you'd be dead not to mention. When you're on a team, you kind of go, Okay, what are you good at? What am I good at? Okay, let's work with that out and let's do that together, and then we'll be better together. You know, when one and one is three, then that is the power of like all of it. I think it was that. I think my coach from college really somehow subtly helped me, uh do all the different things that I was exploring doing, and then reminded me that my teammates, if they had the opportunity, would do the same, because I was unsure and felt bad for that. And and then again I bring Lard into it because Laird is he definitely does his own thing and he always has. You know, he grew up white and blonde at the end of the road and the north shore of Kauaie, so that wasn't really the popular uh you know ethnicity. And then you know, he became very good at surfing and then was like, oh, I'm gonna try new surfing, and people were like well, that's not surfing. He's like, I think it's surfing. And then he did a different kind of surfing, and then now he does another kind of surfing. And I've I've really often times used him as a resource of like, honor yourself, do what you really feel, and trust that because, um, you know, what are we doing here? Really? And you really genuinely will feel more fulfilled if you make your own mistakes, if you if you do things that are from within you. And because even if you're successful, but you were doing what you thought you were supposed to do versus what really what you wanted to do, is that success. And so I think it also helped in my young adult life. I did partner up with somebody that reinforced that idea of like, like, really, I think he cares so little of what people think. I mean, I think he cares about what the people he loves think greatly his ability just because he's been criticized quite a bit. I mean, I've been criticized too, and you just learned like, Okay, have you been criticized though? Sometimes sure about what? Oh my goodness, I get criticized for um, you know, when I was younger, it was like, oh, the creating girl against the Shukan tracks and um, you know, but is that criticism or is that just jealousy. I don't know. It feels the same when you're getting it. Yeah, that sounds more like jealousy. I've called people on the telephone what to tell about not tell him off. I had a female reporter, very prestigious woman, one time, criticized me on national TV and I called her and I said, you know, it's a bummer. Is like, I'm doing the best I can and you and I have the same goals, which is probably to elevate women and women in sports. Because she was like a jaggie and you're bagging me on sports. But if you did any homework, you would know, like I work hard. I practice hard three years in rows, offensive player of the year in my league, So that doesn't They didn't give me that because my ponytail was on correctly, and I go, it's just kind of a drag. I think it's part of anything. If you're gonna do anything in life, you can say let's say the puppies, Someone's going to criticize you and say what about the children? So I just think people have to get that real quick, Like, if you're gonna do anything in life, anything at all, and try to do it at a high level. Um, not everyone's gonna be great. And I always take it like you're on the right track. And again that goes back to the original code. If I am honoring my code, who I think I'm really trying to be? If I can like brush my teeth in the morning, go, I'm cool with you. You get us. You still have work to do, but I get where you're at. And then I think that's all we can really hope for. If you have something that you think that you find, that you you like and maybe even love, and that you could be good at it. I just think you understand you're willing to pay the price to pursue that. However, we still have to keep looking at ourselves as human beings all along the way, because if you want to talk about the ultimate transition, it's transitioning out of We talked about earlier identities. You know, I've had people say, weren't you Gabriel, that volleyball player. I was like, well, actually, funny enough, I'm still Gabby. I'm here. Obviously, you see me right now looking at you and that is something I did, but that is not who I am. And maybe some of the ways of that I am are expressed in that athlete or in that business person or that parent or that wife, But at the end, it's about for me personally. The liberation was and saying I don't want to have any identity. I don't want to be. I want to be liberated from that so I can really keep listening to who I am right now today and who I want to be, so that I'm not restricted by what I think is the expectation, because that's what it happens. Right. You go, well, I should show up and I should be that, and people expect me to be this. Forget all that. Who are you as a human being? And you know, who do you hope to be? And just do that? And the hardest transition I think for any athlete is to forego that identity. I think it is so difficult. That's why I was always fascinated with Steffie Graff because I was like, how are you that badass? And you just seem like you want to have nothing to do with that identity. I was always in awe of that with her because it almost felt like she was free because she wasn't like did you see me? Have you noticed me? I'm here? Do you want to interview me? I want to be interviewed. It's like, and she was so exceptional. So I think if you ask me if athletes transition or people, it's like guys that are CEO s, you know, it's like, so what do you do? You know? It's my favorite. It's like, you mean, who am I? Yeah? Because like I said, smart is smart, and smart doesn't mean you had to go to Harvard. You could just be smart, and you can be nowadays especially, I will say one great thing with technology is like you can be self taught. You can listen to a bunch of different things that you're interested in. And so my hope for all athletes would be to really enjoy it and and put all they have into it so when it is in the review mirror, they're not sort of having regret or pain that it's over, but believe in that formula, believe in themsel else that they can take the things that they've learned and apply it into something new. But they just have to put the effort, you know, and that takes by the way that humility and a little bit of thought, Like you have to be thoughtful, you have to think about things, and you have to ponder and try and fail and and all those things. But I liken it to like go into practice. And I always said, like your coach wouldn't say to you, so listen, you're down the line. Shot is perfect. Let's do that all practice. Now, let's say your cut shot sucked. I'll give your statistics from the last game. That's what we're doing. And then when you have the ability to take whatever it is and go, I'm gonna work on that that weakness, that thing I think that can help you navigate almost any scenario in life. Yeah, you would, you know what I mean? You like I would, you would think so, you would hope so. And I guess it's It's one of the things that I'm really It's why I created a show, and it's one thing that I'm fascinating about is why certain athletes can take the skills that they've learned and developed thirty years over the course of their career and transfer it to other realms while other athletes are really struggled to do that. A lot do and I feel like, Okay, Magic Johnson, maybe excluded as well as like a couple others, is you have to develop outside interests of your sport. If you think going to clubs or being famous is going to cut it in the long run, it probably isn't because being famous is not really about you, it's about other people. So it's really about asking yourself, what do I want to do with my time? And and also I feel like sometimes the higher people can go in their sports, so more money, more fame, the heart of that transition can be because everywhere they go people like, oh, you're that guy, You're that girl, you're that guy, And but like sort of encouraging them to remind themselves, like, it's your life. It isn't their life of how you should be in their life, you know, it's it is your life. And and you know so far that I know, you sort of only get one pass at it. And I do think overall it's probably easier to make the transition as a female than a male. First of all, our sports are smaller. Um, you know, we by nature are more sort of by nature, we're going to be more versatile in a certain way because we have to be. And um, that's not a criticism of men. If you know. And uh, and also I think that it's almost like you have to make a conscious fight. Mm hmm. So if a guy plays in the NBA for ten years, it's like he's almost gonna have to make more of an effort, certainly than someone like me. When you didn't start organized sports and volleyball right until junior year in high school. I dabbled a little bit, and then I really I balda my junior ye when I moved to Saint Peter. Did you immediately fall in love with it or do you think did you just kind of fall into it? I fell into it. I was six three, and it gave me a family. You know, it's a part of something. I had a reason to be so tall. You know people that's how you know rocket scientists. Some people are they till sixteen year old girl? Oh are you your six three? Do you play basketball? Blah blah? Yeah, Oh that's why you're so tall? Yeah, that's what I'm so tall, You know what I mean? I remember being a kid being like wow, m and you're the grown up, right. But I'm just saying, like, I think it gave me a family, a tribe, and it's so critical at that time in life to be a part of something, and and then it went from there. I think I really really liked the environment, the hard work, the discipline. Not being able to do something learning to do it. Um, that's really exciting to me. I get excited when I coach people in the pool or whatever and they can't do it, and then they can. That even excites me. But you don't play volleyball at all, You don't know because I'm not. My brain knows what to do, but my body isn't tuned up that way, and so I think I would just be pissed. People go like, wouldn't be fine? I go, I don't think so. No. I played till about four years ago with a bunch of I used to play, so four years ago, I am very I am forty nine. That's good enough, right, That's that's pretty good. Yeah, my knee just really hurt and then I but I played with men for like probably the last ten years or so, and I did play once a few tournaments when I was forty. Um, but yeah, I just I don't know. I just I think that it's not that I don't miss it. I think that everything sometimes has a season. But it's different, right, like Laird serves, but it's he has to and he does it at a very very high level. For me, volleyball, I have other things that I want to I want to do some thinking. You can also do by yourself too much in nature, and you have to call people. He actually has to call people that they have to tow each other around the stuff. But still it's like I just think, and also I just I don't know, I feel like letting go of that and allowing the new identities, the new things, the new pursuits to come, because when we hold onto the old, we don't make room for this new, this new form of expression. And U one thing I would tell all athletes too, though, when you're in it, when you're still in it, start looking. And why I say this is people want to help champions, like what do you want to do? Hey, what are you into? What would you like to do? Sometimes I think it's harder when you're done. And so if if I was a guy or girl who was actively playing, even then you have a small offseason, if there's something that kind of you think you're curious about, find out because everybody will help you. They just will. And so take advantage of that, because what they don't realize is the amount of access that they have based on their occupation, utilize it. There's been a lot of athletes that have offered that same advice to others because they have often said, I wish I would have taken more advantage of the opportunities and developing relationships and expanding my network while I was playing, and it's you don't have that. You don't have that perspective to take so much energy to do what you're doing week after week and competing and all these things. However, I would just whisper that as an invitation unless you're like, you know, you have other ideas, which is totally great. And that was the thing. I was always doing other things while I was playing, And honestly, volleyball was almost like, Oh, that's just her badge of credibility. That's really what it became. It really jumped started you. It launched you to do so many other things. Because at Florida State was your junior year, probably your biggest was that your when you started to really become a national icon. What what age? What year? Because I was looking at your it was the only time I'm gonna bring my notes. But like nine, which is when you're a junior. Was that when you were a junior? Was remember that's when you won the Dodge National Athletic Award for most Inspiring College Athlete. You were Rolling Stone named you as one of the wonder Women of Sport. L named you as one of the five most beautiful women in the world. Uh, that's got to be a crazy thing where when you're on campus and you're doing all these other things. Yeah, but I'm not going to send even then, Yeah, I was nineteen. I did not send out the vibration of like I want people flittering around me? Did people would? Were people aware on campus? So? What was that the year when everything started to kind of build up and blow up. Yeah, my sophomore year started to roast up pretty good. To the end of my sophomore year, it was you know, it was rolling And it's not that I've never paid in any mind, but I it was my job. And that's the other thing too, besides it you being fortunate. I was very well aware of like it's my job. It's like when I go to work today, you know, now if I go to let's say a shoot and you show up and I show up on time and okay, please and thank you. People like you guys are amazing. I'm like, oh, the expectation is low. It's like I'm doing my job. This is the part, this is why, this is the thing I do and I bring. So I think I've always viewed it that way, even when I was super young, like, oh, you're playing that role, and I'll play this role. So I'll do this job and you do that job, you know. And I think it also is a different thing when your job is in front of a camera or in front but the only difference is the jobs just in front other people doing jobs, hard jobs, important jobs everywhere they're just hind So I think it's again about perspective. Yeah, you seem like somebody who is very comfortable with being uncomfortable in the sense of you love to create, you love change a little bit. You love that the freedom to have a little bit of an adventure because you have so many things going on. I get bored. I do get bored, and um, things take time. That's the other thing I've learned as an entrepreneur. So I've been doing businesses since my late twenties, and what you realize too, if you have an idea, start now, because it's gonna take about five years. That's the other thing that I've learned. And it's not like why didn't this happen? It's like, oh no, yeah, this takes a minute. So I think there's another part of me that's learned that part of it. So I'm always like and again not moving in am in an unorganized or phonetic way because that doesn't get anything done, but being sure creating a strategy and a pathway and then saying systematically how am I going to get that done? And adjusting and learning as you go, adapt quickly and uh. And I think that that keeps me interested because I'm interested in being different, hopefully in a year than I am today. You know, I al would say, especially as a female, right like, I'm never going to be younger, So is it possible I could be smarter, or I could be more relaxed, or I could be less reactionary or more direct? You know, it's like, could I develop these other things to a higher level? What last bit of advice do you have to offer athletes using your story and your experience in terms of how how an athlete is able to just kind of what you were talking about, use everything that they have built up in their athletic career and make it last longer so they can live off of that. And I'm not just talking financially obviously, just to build a legacy and really just do the things that you you've done with your career. Well okay, So it would be like if they thought that they went to a great party and they it was at this location, and then um, they left and they thought, oh, I I left the party. It's for them to realize that when they go into sport. You know, Tom Brady said when he got wheeled off the field with his knee injury years and years ago before he was through the tunnel the whistle blue and they started. So no one is bigger than the game right period. So I think it's realizing though that your party and the party that you is your life can always be that because you're the common denominator and not to equate that you have to be in the NFL and not that you have to be in the NFL and the NBA to be at the party. You're the party, and the party might look different. It might become a wine and cheese. When it might be kind of quiet, it might be a book one and you might be having intellectual ideas. It may not be the full one. You know, I gotta go. Everyone's going to talk about it for a year, But it's them realizing that everywhere they go they are the asset. Meaning don't be afraid to think, well, I can only play basketball, or I'm only good if I'm a football player. It's like, do a little bit of soul searching and say what who else am I and what else do I think I like? And by the way, if they come up with nothing, then that's something to look at too and go, okay, well maybe I can talk to some people I trust and say, when you see me, what do you think I'm good at? Or what do you think I would like trying and doing? Because I think sometimes people close to us, if they're honest with us, they can see things about us that we can't see ourselves. But to have the confidence to let go of the past, because if you're going to move robustly and fully and holy into the future and make that road full and wide, you have to let go. And when you do, like one foot there and you still you know acting certain ways that you acted before. It's like you'll never get to move on all the way, you won't get full flight. And um, I think if if they could have that faith, because that's what it does, a to leap of faith. It's scary and it's all scary, like I was saying, so go for it. You know, it's like, um, but to but to know that you're worth isn't actually that you're a champion, or that you've won X championships or that you won this award or you were named. That you're worth is who you are as a person and what you're contributing ultimately, because those other things that winning and stuff that's actually for us, that's for the individual that was like your thing, Like you know, this is your reward, but your value you're being a champion person is about your output and what you're giving. I do have one more thing to say to athletes, which is this, if you ever got to play in college or in the pros, it's a miracle. You've been a part of a miracle. The statistics are unbelievable. And so I think sometimes it isn't about to obsess over the miracle. It's to value the miracle and appreciate the miracle, but to recognize you've been a part of a miracle, and so there's actually no reason why can't you be part of other miracles. And so I always remind them because I think we're around so many people that are doing that too. So you, oh, it's not a big deal. No, it's a it's a it's a you know, it's a one and two percent and three percent deal, and so kind of when you're going forward, be like, oh, no, I've been part of miracles. Miracles happen. Well, before any of your kids and husband and anybody else gives you a ring, I just want to say thank you, thank you, thank you for shopping all the way up to Melanie for having us and love your your house. But more importantly, I love all the pictures that you guys have all over the place, So you know, I put them up. I reinforced my kids. I'm like, oh no, we're happy, we're happy family. Just look at the pictures. Can see it. You're not sure? Look. Gabby obviously has an amazing story. The best part for me that day was getting a behind the scenes look into her life as a mother. In the four hours I spent at our house. Anytime any one of her three daughters asked or called for something, she immediately responded, and her daughter is called multiple times during the interview, And although it did break up the flow of the conversation at times, I actually didn't mind it at all because as a fairly new mother myself with a seventeen month old, it gave me a good glimpse into how you can do it all and how you can put your family first while pursuing your professional endeavors, especially from the perspective of a woman. A big, warm thank you to Gabby for not only sitting down with me for a number of hours to share her story, but opening up her home to all of us, and a big thank you to you the listener. Feel free to hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at prim Underscores to rip back and let me know your thoughts on today's episode. Until next time, I really hope you enjoyed today's best of episodes. Stay tuned as we prepare for season three of the next chapter. Can hardly wait for all of you to dive into this new content coming up. If you're interested in checking out some of the other episodes in the meantime, just visit our show page on I heart radio or wherever you get your podcasts, and to watch the full version of these interviews, you can head on over to YouTube just search for the next chapter with prims rip back. Of course, subscribe to us, like us, give us star rating. We really appreciate you listening and showing your support, and also feel free to follow me on Twitter or Instagram at prim underscore s ripa Pat. The next chapter with prim srippa Pat is a production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast