Good everyone, Welcome back to the show This is Wrong with the Punches podcast and Bobby Capuccio's back. Bobby Capuccio is back chatting to me today, and it's a good one because we're talking about we're talking about one of hims I struggle with, and that is boundaries setting boundaries. So I quiz him about that and we talk a little bit about how Bobby's quite tumultuous and very violent upbringing as a child shaped him and how he experienced that and some of the things that can stick around when we go through stuff like that. I love these conversations. We've talked about a little bit of his backstory and plenty of episodes before, but it's always nice to learn new things and new perspectives. So thank you Bobby for sharing, and I hope you guys love this chat. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Team of Melbourne Family Lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law, de facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Rabbert Capuccio, welcome back.

Good everyone, Welcome back to the show This is Wrong with the Punches podcast and Bobby Capuccio's back. Bobby Capuccio is back chatting to me today, and it's a good one because we're talking about we're talking about one of hims I struggle with, and that is boundaries setting boundaries. So I quiz him about that and we talk a little bit about how Bobby's quite tumultuous and very violent upbringing as a child shaped him and how he experienced that and some of the things that can stick around when we go through stuff like that. I love these conversations. We've talked about a little bit of his backstory and plenty of episodes before, but it's always nice to learn new things and new perspectives. So thank you Bobby for sharing, and I hope you guys love this chat. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends at test Art Family Lawyers know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Team of Melbourne Family Lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law, de facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Rabbert Capuccio, welcome back.

Did you just call me Rabbit Capuccia?

Did you just call me Rabbit Capuccia?

Rabbit must be the Tasmanian version of Robert.

Rabbit must be the Tasmanian version of Robert.

No. My my, My mother growing up used to say that I used to hate the name Robert because when she used to say it, she used to pronounce it rabbit. So I was like, I hate the name Rabbit. I didn't even realize my name was Robert until like I got older. I thought my name was Rabbit Joseph.

No. My my, My mother growing up used to say that I used to hate the name Robert because when she used to say it, she used to pronounce it rabbit. So I was like, I hate the name Rabbit. I didn't even realize my name was Robert until like I got older. I thought my name was Rabbit Joseph.

And what's MyD You circle back to Robert because you often call yourself Robert on you ca self Robert on LinkedIn. There's a lot of places where you're fer yourself to Robert or Robert Joseph, So tell me about your.

And what's MyD You circle back to Robert because you often call yourself Robert on you ca self Robert on LinkedIn. There's a lot of places where you're fer yourself to Robert or Robert Joseph, So tell me about your.

Well, Robert sounds a lot better than Rabbit. Also, I grew up in Brooklyn, Like, if you're well into your forties and you're still going by the name Bobby, you're likely a gangster. It's not really the image I'm looking to run with. So I was like, you know what, Robert's a great name and it's a little bit, it's a little bit grown up, a little bit more mature, and I'm not quite old enough or ready to switch into Bob. Bob Joseph Capuccio, Bob, you go fishing with you?

Well, Robert sounds a lot better than Rabbit. Also, I grew up in Brooklyn, Like, if you're well into your forties and you're still going by the name Bobby, you're likely a gangster. It's not really the image I'm looking to run with. So I was like, you know what, Robert's a great name and it's a little bit, it's a little bit grown up, a little bit more mature, and I'm not quite old enough or ready to switch into Bob. Bob Joseph Capuccio, Bob, you go fishing with you?

I think you should ever switch to Bob.

I think you should ever switch to Bob.

It's just it seems. I mean, look, I know a couple of really cool Bob's. I'm just gonna say that, like straight up Bob a Squary, he was a legend in the fitness industry. But for me, Bob is the guy where like on a boat fishing rod middle of the lake on Saturday morning, and just that's not me. And you know, Rob is a little bit I don't know, too suburban. So I'm going with Robert. Wow, talk about a subject nobody really cares about.

It's just it seems. I mean, look, I know a couple of really cool Bob's. I'm just gonna say that, like straight up Bob a Squary, he was a legend in the fitness industry. But for me, Bob is the guy where like on a boat fishing rod middle of the lake on Saturday morning, and just that's not me. And you know, Rob is a little bit I don't know, too suburban. So I'm going with Robert. Wow, talk about a subject nobody really cares about.

Well, I just I've just started like with everyone calls me tiff, right. But if I ever write my name or introduce my myself, well maybe not introducing, I don't know, but if I write my name down, I always reference Tiffany, even though I never used to like that name so much. But I just my Urel is now tiff Cook and a lot of And now I'm starting to go just go by tiff Cook on a lot of platforms, which is weird. And it's just because some of the some people have started introducing me and referencing me that way, and I'm like, Okay, it's weird, isn't it.

Well, I just I've just started like with everyone calls me tiff, right. But if I ever write my name or introduce my myself, well maybe not introducing, I don't know, but if I write my name down, I always reference Tiffany, even though I never used to like that name so much. But I just my Urel is now tiff Cook and a lot of And now I'm starting to go just go by tiff Cook on a lot of platforms, which is weird. And it's just because some of the some people have started introducing me and referencing me that way, and I'm like, Okay, it's weird, isn't it.

You know what I'm interested in? As as my cat is literally gnawing my finger off behind the he's like behind the computer. He just reaches out, grabs my finger with his paw, drags it across the table and just claunches on it like it's like it's one of those temptation treats, me buy them. So what I'm what I'm curious about, Tiff, because to me, you're both. Doesn't it feel different for you? Do you feel differently when you're writing out Tiffany or when you're Tiff.

You know what I'm interested in? As as my cat is literally gnawing my finger off behind the he's like behind the computer. He just reaches out, grabs my finger with his paw, drags it across the table and just claunches on it like it's like it's one of those temptation treats, me buy them. So what I'm what I'm curious about, Tiff, because to me, you're both. Doesn't it feel different for you? Do you feel differently when you're writing out Tiffany or when you're Tiff.

I don't think I've ever really thought about it so much. Tiffany is just what I tend to write if I write my name, unless I'm just signing a card and then it's Tiff. I guess it's whether I'm identifying who I am as a person for any reason, as opposed to having some sort of written dialogue with somebody, and then it's just Tiff. But I never sign I never fell out a form and put Tiff cook right.

I don't think I've ever really thought about it so much. Tiffany is just what I tend to write if I write my name, unless I'm just signing a card and then it's Tiff. I guess it's whether I'm identifying who I am as a person for any reason, as opposed to having some sort of written dialogue with somebody, and then it's just Tiff. But I never sign I never fell out a form and put Tiff cook right.

So it's just the difference in like abbreviated versus full name.

So it's just the difference in like abbreviated versus full name.

Yeah, yeah, but that's different to Bobby and Robert because because that's Bobby's not just like it's not Robbie, it's Bobby like it's which is interesting. Why do they change some names like that? Why is Richard dieck?

Yeah, yeah, but that's different to Bobby and Robert because because that's Bobby's not just like it's not Robbie, it's Bobby like it's which is interesting. Why do they change some names like that? Why is Richard dieck?

Well, there was probably a gay named Richard who was a real dick and it just stuck, which is very unfortunate for every other Richard everywhere, and there's always one for the rest.

Well, there was probably a gay named Richard who was a real dick and it just stuck, which is very unfortunate for every other Richard everywhere, and there's always one for the rest.

Why don't all Roberts become Robbie, Well.

Why don't all Roberts become Robbie, Well.

Some of them do, and they probably get beat up a lot. But oh my god, so you want to you want to unpack like serious dysfunction. I don't even know if I should discuss this on the podcast. Should I discuss this on the podcast?

Some of them do, and they probably get beat up a lot. But oh my god, so you want to you want to unpack like serious dysfunction. I don't even know if I should discuss this on the podcast. Should I discuss this on the podcast?

That's a big yes from me.

That's a big yes from me.

Okay, So when I was growing up, my stepfather was extremely violent, but he got violent for the most absurd reasons. So for whatever reason, he hated the name Bobby. He hated it, and so I was looking for abbreviations for my name because you're growing up in Brooklyn, Brooklyn's kind of like, we're very ausy in the sense that we can't wrap our heads around anything that doesn't end with a vowel. And if your name doesn't end with a vowel, we're going to find one for you. So it's it's very similar to Australians in that respect, well a few respects actually, which is weird enough, but like when you think about where we both came from, kind of makes sense. But anyway, getting back to this, so I called myself Rob and I started like thinking, you know, it's my name, call myself one, and so I started going by the name Bobby. Well, one night, we're all sitting down right at the table and my friend Tommy Brooklyn, Tommy Benny, Bobby gives me a ring and my stepfather answers the phone. He said, hey, hi, is is Bobby around? My stepfather just throws the phone into the wall right, grabs the kitchen table, throws that into the wall, and you have like weights and glasses, everything shattering. It sounds like a tornado came through my house. Grabs me, starts beating me, punching me repeatedly. Now, from my perspective, all that happened was the phone, right, he picks up said hello, this is not funny at all and proceeded to throw everything all over the room and beat me. So I'm extremely confused at this point. Now from the other perspective, my friend Tommy's on the phone. Oh He's say, it's Bobby around and this is what he's hearing on the other end of the phone. And then when this is all done, Tommy's still on the phone, just like dumbfounded on a payphone. This is like, how long ago this was payphones? For those of you who are wondering. Were these big metal boxes and sort of booths that were like mounted to the inside of the booth and he had to drop coins in it and then you got to talk for a certain amount of time. But anyway, enough with the history lesson. So he picks up the phone again my stepfather, and he says, there are no bobbies in this house. There are robs and there are Roberts here, and Tommy's like on the other end of the phone, Oh god, my eyes are try as heck. Why is this. I think it's I think it's the lights because at this time and they afternoon, like whenever I talk to you it's not that they get emotional. I think the lighting, the like ring light is right in my eyes so annoying. Anyway, Tommy's on the other end of that phone and he's like, uh so is he coming out? Okay? Maybe not? He hangs up the phone. He's got the rest of my friends with him. He's like, I don't think Bobby or Rob is uh coming out to night? Just like That's how it ended. That was the environment that I grew up in. That was like a typical night in my house.

Okay, So when I was growing up, my stepfather was extremely violent, but he got violent for the most absurd reasons. So for whatever reason, he hated the name Bobby. He hated it, and so I was looking for abbreviations for my name because you're growing up in Brooklyn, Brooklyn's kind of like, we're very ausy in the sense that we can't wrap our heads around anything that doesn't end with a vowel. And if your name doesn't end with a vowel, we're going to find one for you. So it's it's very similar to Australians in that respect, well a few respects actually, which is weird enough, but like when you think about where we both came from, kind of makes sense. But anyway, getting back to this, so I called myself Rob and I started like thinking, you know, it's my name, call myself one, and so I started going by the name Bobby. Well, one night, we're all sitting down right at the table and my friend Tommy Brooklyn, Tommy Benny, Bobby gives me a ring and my stepfather answers the phone. He said, hey, hi, is is Bobby around? My stepfather just throws the phone into the wall right, grabs the kitchen table, throws that into the wall, and you have like weights and glasses, everything shattering. It sounds like a tornado came through my house. Grabs me, starts beating me, punching me repeatedly. Now, from my perspective, all that happened was the phone, right, he picks up said hello, this is not funny at all and proceeded to throw everything all over the room and beat me. So I'm extremely confused at this point. Now from the other perspective, my friend Tommy's on the phone. Oh He's say, it's Bobby around and this is what he's hearing on the other end of the phone. And then when this is all done, Tommy's still on the phone, just like dumbfounded on a payphone. This is like, how long ago this was payphones? For those of you who are wondering. Were these big metal boxes and sort of booths that were like mounted to the inside of the booth and he had to drop coins in it and then you got to talk for a certain amount of time. But anyway, enough with the history lesson. So he picks up the phone again my stepfather, and he says, there are no bobbies in this house. There are robs and there are Roberts here, and Tommy's like on the other end of the phone, Oh god, my eyes are try as heck. Why is this. I think it's I think it's the lights because at this time and they afternoon, like whenever I talk to you it's not that they get emotional. I think the lighting, the like ring light is right in my eyes so annoying. Anyway, Tommy's on the other end of that phone and he's like, uh so is he coming out? Okay? Maybe not? He hangs up the phone. He's got the rest of my friends with him. He's like, I don't think Bobby or Rob is uh coming out to night? Just like That's how it ended. That was the environment that I grew up in. That was like a typical night in my house.

What come of even grasp that environment? Are you like intrigued by what could possibly have been the relationship between the name Bobby and your step farmer?

What come of even grasp that environment? Are you like intrigued by what could possibly have been the relationship between the name Bobby and your step farmer?

You know, I just or did that?

You know, I just or did that?

Not? Even you were just in the eye of a storm that never made sense.

Not? Even you were just in the eye of a storm that never made sense.

It never made sense, Like I never I never thought, well, like what like were you like severely beaten by a kid named Bobby? Like were you bullied by a Bobby growing up? That wouldn't have been a really good question. That just would have led to more chaos. I mean, it was one of those things where if he would go to bed at like nine and I'd be up like awake at nine p fifteen he would like wake up and storm like he was the Usually it was like really big guy, it was like one hundred and fifty kilas, like that's the size of that, like this person coming at you or no, maybe like one hundred and forty kilos. Anyway, big boy and he were like, get to bed. He's like and everything with him was like ever since he was a kid. As if that justified it, that just makes it more like mental It's like ever since I was a kid, I can't sleep when I know other people are awake when I'm not get to bed, and he was just flipped that. I was like, that must be really hard for you, because like somewhere in the world there are a lot of people that are always awake whilst you're just sleeping. Like this is just like where aren't you. I don't know if this is like years of severe anxiety and sleep deprivation that did this to you. I'm not really sure. I know he had a family history of like the men in his family being like at like struggling, let's just put it mildly struggling with mental health issues and violence, like extreme violence. It was all the men. I didn't know that until the years later, when I was out to dinner with his first wife. You know, someone who I was like growing up was told like it was the worst person in the world, and like, yeah, she's absolutely lovely. I absolutely adore his first wife. I mean, you know, we all make massive mistakes. Sorry about that first marriage. There other than that, like she's incredible.

It never made sense, Like I never I never thought, well, like what like were you like severely beaten by a kid named Bobby? Like were you bullied by a Bobby growing up? That wouldn't have been a really good question. That just would have led to more chaos. I mean, it was one of those things where if he would go to bed at like nine and I'd be up like awake at nine p fifteen he would like wake up and storm like he was the Usually it was like really big guy, it was like one hundred and fifty kilas, like that's the size of that, like this person coming at you or no, maybe like one hundred and forty kilos. Anyway, big boy and he were like, get to bed. He's like and everything with him was like ever since he was a kid. As if that justified it, that just makes it more like mental It's like ever since I was a kid, I can't sleep when I know other people are awake when I'm not get to bed, and he was just flipped that. I was like, that must be really hard for you, because like somewhere in the world there are a lot of people that are always awake whilst you're just sleeping. Like this is just like where aren't you. I don't know if this is like years of severe anxiety and sleep deprivation that did this to you. I'm not really sure. I know he had a family history of like the men in his family being like at like struggling, let's just put it mildly struggling with mental health issues and violence, like extreme violence. It was all the men. I didn't know that until the years later, when I was out to dinner with his first wife. You know, someone who I was like growing up was told like it was the worst person in the world, and like, yeah, she's absolutely lovely. I absolutely adore his first wife. I mean, you know, we all make massive mistakes. Sorry about that first marriage. There other than that, like she's incredible.

What did he have good moments? What was he like when he was good or was there just space between the bed?

What did he have good moments? What was he like when he was good or was there just space between the bed?

You know, there was both. There were moments where he could be I don't want to say kind, but affectionate, and he could be he could sit and talk to you, or he would tell stories. Most of them were wild lies and fabrications, like he would talk about you know, like serving time, like what it was like in the military. He was never in the military, but he would just go on and on with these elaborate stories about it. When things were better, which which was rare, Like it wasn't the majority of the time, it wasn't even like half and half. It's like maybe twenty percent of the time. When he did have his really good moments, that was the most anxiety in sing and terrifying because you just know, like, oh, things are okay, here, like I'm going to say, at any second, anything can happen, and this is going to shift. So Roy Sugarman, who we both know, he did a personality assessment on me many years ago. I just wanted to make sure I actually had one turns out I do. And what was interesting about his personality assessment because a lot of times they'll ask you questions and you have to think, am I answering this question authentically based on the truth, based on what other people have told me, based on how I want to view myself or how I should be, or based on whoever's administering the test. What are they looking for? But he would do things like show you rapid images of different facial expressions and see which ones you linger on and which ones you pick up like most expeditiously, and he would it reminds me a little bit of what Cam McDonald does with pH three sixty. Is the closest thing I have to explain it like things that you couldn't possibly frame it based on your preferences. You don't know what he's looking for, so there's no way that you can index your answers one way or another. And one of the things that he noticed about me was that I pick up fear and disgust very quickly. But I'll interpret neutral facial expressions as either fear or disgusted or anger. Fear, discussed, and anger were my big three because for me, my ability to pick up on all three of those really helped me survive. Because if I looked at my adopted mother and I would see fear flash, Okay, something's going on with him and her it was anger, but mostly with him discussed, Like once discuss started to register, I needed to create a little bit of physical space, so he doesn't have a clear shot. It's like, oh, no, wonder And a lot of times I'll see like, oh, how I did in that situation. I don't think I assessed that situation fairly. I was probably reading something that probably that might not have been there.

You know, there was both. There were moments where he could be I don't want to say kind, but affectionate, and he could be he could sit and talk to you, or he would tell stories. Most of them were wild lies and fabrications, like he would talk about you know, like serving time, like what it was like in the military. He was never in the military, but he would just go on and on with these elaborate stories about it. When things were better, which which was rare, Like it wasn't the majority of the time, it wasn't even like half and half. It's like maybe twenty percent of the time. When he did have his really good moments, that was the most anxiety in sing and terrifying because you just know, like, oh, things are okay, here, like I'm going to say, at any second, anything can happen, and this is going to shift. So Roy Sugarman, who we both know, he did a personality assessment on me many years ago. I just wanted to make sure I actually had one turns out I do. And what was interesting about his personality assessment because a lot of times they'll ask you questions and you have to think, am I answering this question authentically based on the truth, based on what other people have told me, based on how I want to view myself or how I should be, or based on whoever's administering the test. What are they looking for? But he would do things like show you rapid images of different facial expressions and see which ones you linger on and which ones you pick up like most expeditiously, and he would it reminds me a little bit of what Cam McDonald does with pH three sixty. Is the closest thing I have to explain it like things that you couldn't possibly frame it based on your preferences. You don't know what he's looking for, so there's no way that you can index your answers one way or another. And one of the things that he noticed about me was that I pick up fear and disgust very quickly. But I'll interpret neutral facial expressions as either fear or disgusted or anger. Fear, discussed, and anger were my big three because for me, my ability to pick up on all three of those really helped me survive. Because if I looked at my adopted mother and I would see fear flash, Okay, something's going on with him and her it was anger, but mostly with him discussed, Like once discuss started to register, I needed to create a little bit of physical space, so he doesn't have a clear shot. It's like, oh, no, wonder And a lot of times I'll see like, oh, how I did in that situation. I don't think I assessed that situation fairly. I was probably reading something that probably that might not have been there.

It's so interesting how and we were going to talk about people pleasing and based on the video I shared recently of a snippet of the conversation I had with Harps recently where I was sharing where he asked me how my childhood experience and trauma changed me and how it still affects me today. And so the video I shared was talking about the things that I still grapple with in terms of a little bit of dissociation in interacting with people, trust and boundary challenges and sematic I guess my relationship with sematic experiences, and that how in certain environments that can cause the level of dissociation which changes your perception and your behavior and your answers. And you had reached out after watching that and made your own realization, And I find it so intriguing. I have a lot of close friends now who we have had versions of somewhat similar at times or somewhat wildly different, but also trauma on some level that we acknowledge and that we are in the middle of still figuring out and working out years and years and years on. And it's so I don't know, I'm really intrigued by our ability, you know, because as we just heard, as I just heard you talk about that experience growing up, that environment that you were in, it's so clear, And I think about the same with looking at my own environment growing up. It's so clear. But it took and takes and will probably continue to take years upon years to get the perspective, because it's hard to get perspective when you're you in the middle of you like you're absolutely you're one of the most brilliant people at articulating human behavior and experiences and conflict, and yet you're still learning about you as a result of some of the things that have created that. And you probably wouldn't be as brilliant at all of that if it wasn't for your own experience. But I wonder how much you've actively continued to link. I think sometimes we think therapy is saying it out loud, understanding it on an intellectual level, and then thinking that that leaves it behind.

It's so interesting how and we were going to talk about people pleasing and based on the video I shared recently of a snippet of the conversation I had with Harps recently where I was sharing where he asked me how my childhood experience and trauma changed me and how it still affects me today. And so the video I shared was talking about the things that I still grapple with in terms of a little bit of dissociation in interacting with people, trust and boundary challenges and sematic I guess my relationship with sematic experiences, and that how in certain environments that can cause the level of dissociation which changes your perception and your behavior and your answers. And you had reached out after watching that and made your own realization, And I find it so intriguing. I have a lot of close friends now who we have had versions of somewhat similar at times or somewhat wildly different, but also trauma on some level that we acknowledge and that we are in the middle of still figuring out and working out years and years and years on. And it's so I don't know, I'm really intrigued by our ability, you know, because as we just heard, as I just heard you talk about that experience growing up, that environment that you were in, it's so clear, And I think about the same with looking at my own environment growing up. It's so clear. But it took and takes and will probably continue to take years upon years to get the perspective, because it's hard to get perspective when you're you in the middle of you like you're absolutely you're one of the most brilliant people at articulating human behavior and experiences and conflict, and yet you're still learning about you as a result of some of the things that have created that. And you probably wouldn't be as brilliant at all of that if it wasn't for your own experience. But I wonder how much you've actively continued to link. I think sometimes we think therapy is saying it out loud, understanding it on an intellectual level, and then thinking that that leaves it behind.

Well, that's that's an interesting expectation. I think being able to give voice to something and articulate something crystallizes it. I think it's something that you cannot you can't go oh, well, no, no, that's not true. I didn't say you did say that, you recalled that. I think it deepens your clarity. I think it also allows you to mitigate the intensity of some of those emotions in a way that is not possible without vocalizing them and exploring them. There's a discovery there that we've talked about that affective labeling and what that does and why that works, and what that teaches you about yourself on many different levels, from you know, what are the basic human needs that are going umet or have gone on met that are creating some of the voids, or in some cases the values that I strive for, or some of the patterns that I see in myself. So I think there's there's so much value starting with being in that space. I think that you could vocalize something and let it go. I don't think anything's that simple. Maybe for some people it is. I strive for self awareness, you know. I always try to hold myself accountable to what is happening. I was at a work dinner the other night and my colleague and not just colleague, really good friend is next to me and we were going over. We were going over like what happened in a session? I gave an important one and I was like, yeah, that was what happened. There was uncalled for what I did. It's not like I did anything like leude or obnoxious. It's just I did not bring myself into that presentation. I don't know who was in the room, and she's like, oh, you know, you're always so hard on yourself. It's not being hard on myself. I always look at like what did I do well? What really? Where should I have done something? And I didn't. But for somebody who values self awareness, I amaze myself at how slow on the uptake I am because I'm discovering things at fifty about myself that are like, oh wow, I never knew that about me.

Well, that's that's an interesting expectation. I think being able to give voice to something and articulate something crystallizes it. I think it's something that you cannot you can't go oh, well, no, no, that's not true. I didn't say you did say that, you recalled that. I think it deepens your clarity. I think it also allows you to mitigate the intensity of some of those emotions in a way that is not possible without vocalizing them and exploring them. There's a discovery there that we've talked about that affective labeling and what that does and why that works, and what that teaches you about yourself on many different levels, from you know, what are the basic human needs that are going umet or have gone on met that are creating some of the voids, or in some cases the values that I strive for, or some of the patterns that I see in myself. So I think there's there's so much value starting with being in that space. I think that you could vocalize something and let it go. I don't think anything's that simple. Maybe for some people it is. I strive for self awareness, you know. I always try to hold myself accountable to what is happening. I was at a work dinner the other night and my colleague and not just colleague, really good friend is next to me and we were going over. We were going over like what happened in a session? I gave an important one and I was like, yeah, that was what happened. There was uncalled for what I did. It's not like I did anything like leude or obnoxious. It's just I did not bring myself into that presentation. I don't know who was in the room, and she's like, oh, you know, you're always so hard on yourself. It's not being hard on myself. I always look at like what did I do well? What really? Where should I have done something? And I didn't. But for somebody who values self awareness, I amaze myself at how slow on the uptake I am because I'm discovering things at fifty about myself that are like, oh wow, I never knew that about me.

He's the thing though even in that statement there, self awareness is not only is it continuum in our owner, there's so many layers to it, but in the middle of that we are evolving and changing, Like in the middle of me understanding initially, Oh what is it? What is sematic? What does a sematic experience mean? What do you mean sematic therapy versus talk therapy, and how they're different? What do you mean the body keeps the score? And in the middle of both having different activities or metrics or therapies that I've dipped in and out of that deal with my sematic self and also the therapy talk therapy and the literal understanding and information and knowledge that I can gather in the middle of those two. As that information comes in and is experienced, it changes me. It changes me and I get closer to being aware in the It's a challenge because when we're talking about dissociating and having a body experience, it's ludicrous to expect that you would go from reflecting back and seeing that as a thing you do to feeling at the first time it happens again, like my time got closer between the experience and how long afterwards I realized I just had that experience. Some of those experiences were big and some were just small, but each one got closer. And what I think the challenge is is the management of our both mindset on and our relationship with how we're interpreting it in the middle of it. And I think it takes someone special around you, whether that's a therapist or a friend or a team or a number of people to help you manage that. Because we talk about labels and how it would be good and bad, Like I am always watching what's my relationship with all of the because I talk about this a lot now, so talking about it's great, but I also am trying to keep a close eye on how do I talk about it and in the talking about it, is it freeing me or creating any sort of a pull against staying stuck? Makes sense?

He's the thing though even in that statement there, self awareness is not only is it continuum in our owner, there's so many layers to it, but in the middle of that we are evolving and changing, Like in the middle of me understanding initially, Oh what is it? What is sematic? What does a sematic experience mean? What do you mean sematic therapy versus talk therapy, and how they're different? What do you mean the body keeps the score? And in the middle of both having different activities or metrics or therapies that I've dipped in and out of that deal with my sematic self and also the therapy talk therapy and the literal understanding and information and knowledge that I can gather in the middle of those two. As that information comes in and is experienced, it changes me. It changes me and I get closer to being aware in the It's a challenge because when we're talking about dissociating and having a body experience, it's ludicrous to expect that you would go from reflecting back and seeing that as a thing you do to feeling at the first time it happens again, like my time got closer between the experience and how long afterwards I realized I just had that experience. Some of those experiences were big and some were just small, but each one got closer. And what I think the challenge is is the management of our both mindset on and our relationship with how we're interpreting it in the middle of it. And I think it takes someone special around you, whether that's a therapist or a friend or a team or a number of people to help you manage that. Because we talk about labels and how it would be good and bad, Like I am always watching what's my relationship with all of the because I talk about this a lot now, so talking about it's great, but I also am trying to keep a close eye on how do I talk about it and in the talking about it, is it freeing me or creating any sort of a pull against staying stuck? Makes sense?

I like all of this sounds like and not subtle at all. They sound like significant shifts. I was gonna say subtle but significant. No, like these shifts. Like going from being aware of something and being able to identify when you're experiencing it and be able to just have this conversation we're having is an extraordinary shift mm.

I like all of this sounds like and not subtle at all. They sound like significant shifts. I was gonna say subtle but significant. No, like these shifts. Like going from being aware of something and being able to identify when you're experiencing it and be able to just have this conversation we're having is an extraordinary shift mm.

And I mean I've talked about before the that like emotional regulation. I've talked about times in the past where I've then sat in the middle of emotional disregulation without context as to why I'm being a dick, but aware that I'm being a dick, but still in the moment, even though I have the awareness, the understanding, the compassion, and the ability to not in the moment, but outside of the moment, I would have the ability to articulate it in the moment, I'm still not in a place where I can. It's like, all right, I'm literally aware that I'm being a dick and that I'm emotionally triggered, and I've gone into a state and I mean a dick to people around me, but I'm not yet in a place where i can deal with that. Now, I'll have to get space between that and then immediately I'm able to deal with it, and I mean that's progressed but still challenging.

And I mean I've talked about before the that like emotional regulation. I've talked about times in the past where I've then sat in the middle of emotional disregulation without context as to why I'm being a dick, but aware that I'm being a dick, but still in the moment, even though I have the awareness, the understanding, the compassion, and the ability to not in the moment, but outside of the moment, I would have the ability to articulate it in the moment, I'm still not in a place where I can. It's like, all right, I'm literally aware that I'm being a dick and that I'm emotionally triggered, and I've gone into a state and I mean a dick to people around me, but I'm not yet in a place where i can deal with that. Now, I'll have to get space between that and then immediately I'm able to deal with it, and I mean that's progressed but still challenging.

I'm aware that I'm in a state of dysregulation. I don't know how to emotionally regulate. I don't seem to have access to that ability right now. Brain researcher Jeffrey Schwartz, and he was saying this around obsessive compulsive disorder, but I think it works, and it's a really it's a really great example, he said, Like with obsessive compulsive disorder, it's not that people don't understand that these are not real. These are intrusive thoughts. They are well aware of it, but it is like somebody is standing behind them with a remote control and operating their brain. And that awareness does not necessarily mean that they could just not think that thought. Well, no, no, you can go to work because you did lock your front door and you don't have to go home and check it, and you don't have to check it with both hands. That was a debilitating thing for me, like having to go back and check the door constantly, or when I was growing up, I had to always even things out, like if I touch something with one hand, I couldn't walk away from it unless I touched it with another hand, I mean my other hand, not another hand. That would have been even more complicated. But just because you know that this is an intrusive thought and you don't have to do it and nothing bad will probably happen if you don't do it, it doesn't make it any less real. But understanding that, okay, this is not real, this is an intrusive thought. It's not me, it's it's for some reason, emotional dysregulation. It's it's not me, it's my OCD. Now I could seek out strategies that I can implement, and I could do the work continually and over time, less in the hole that these things have.

I'm aware that I'm in a state of dysregulation. I don't know how to emotionally regulate. I don't seem to have access to that ability right now. Brain researcher Jeffrey Schwartz, and he was saying this around obsessive compulsive disorder, but I think it works, and it's a really it's a really great example, he said, Like with obsessive compulsive disorder, it's not that people don't understand that these are not real. These are intrusive thoughts. They are well aware of it, but it is like somebody is standing behind them with a remote control and operating their brain. And that awareness does not necessarily mean that they could just not think that thought. Well, no, no, you can go to work because you did lock your front door and you don't have to go home and check it, and you don't have to check it with both hands. That was a debilitating thing for me, like having to go back and check the door constantly, or when I was growing up, I had to always even things out, like if I touch something with one hand, I couldn't walk away from it unless I touched it with another hand, I mean my other hand, not another hand. That would have been even more complicated. But just because you know that this is an intrusive thought and you don't have to do it and nothing bad will probably happen if you don't do it, it doesn't make it any less real. But understanding that, okay, this is not real, this is an intrusive thought. It's not me, it's it's for some reason, emotional dysregulation. It's it's not me, it's my OCD. Now I could seek out strategies that I can implement, and I could do the work continually and over time, less in the hole that these things have.

This is where the awareness on our stuff gets tricky, because it's like ignorance is blissed. So in the there's a period of time I guess for most of us where it's just some behavior or trait creeps in, or it's just you feel like it's always been there, it's just a part of you, and then at some point you realize it's a bit dysfunctional, you explore it, you go, oh, oh, this is a like I remember when I first dove into therapy and exploring my past, I was like, oh, all this stuff, all these personality traits, this is a result of some heavy stuff and okay. So then what happens is then there's this layering upon that of chastising ourself in the middle. So it's like you see it happening in the moment, and then you add a secondary stress or kind of trauma on top by then chastising yourself or having negative self talk about how you're dealing with it while you're in it, rather than just being aware of it and going okay, this is part of it, is actually part of the improvement process.

This is where the awareness on our stuff gets tricky, because it's like ignorance is blissed. So in the there's a period of time I guess for most of us where it's just some behavior or trait creeps in, or it's just you feel like it's always been there, it's just a part of you, and then at some point you realize it's a bit dysfunctional, you explore it, you go, oh, oh, this is a like I remember when I first dove into therapy and exploring my past, I was like, oh, all this stuff, all these personality traits, this is a result of some heavy stuff and okay. So then what happens is then there's this layering upon that of chastising ourself in the middle. So it's like you see it happening in the moment, and then you add a secondary stress or kind of trauma on top by then chastising yourself or having negative self talk about how you're dealing with it while you're in it, rather than just being aware of it and going okay, this is part of it, is actually part of the improvement process.

H Yeah, and acknowledging and actually talking through how damaging that is to yourself and others. And then like, well that's not even true, yeah, because if this was true, where else would it be true? Right? Something that is only true in your head in this situation, but it's untrue in the same exact situation with somebody else might not be true. And it's like if somebody else was going through, like, how would I assess this situation? What would I say? What would my my opinion be even if I didn't verbalize my opinion, Because even with Tourette's I find myself keeping a lot of opinions to myself. It's probably better that way, But what would my opinion be in my own head right now? It's like, okay, it would be the complete antithesis to this. Hmmm, curious.

H Yeah, and acknowledging and actually talking through how damaging that is to yourself and others. And then like, well that's not even true, yeah, because if this was true, where else would it be true? Right? Something that is only true in your head in this situation, but it's untrue in the same exact situation with somebody else might not be true. And it's like if somebody else was going through, like, how would I assess this situation? What would I say? What would my my opinion be even if I didn't verbalize my opinion, Because even with Tourette's I find myself keeping a lot of opinions to myself. It's probably better that way, But what would my opinion be in my own head right now? It's like, okay, it would be the complete antithesis to this. Hmmm, curious.

Yeah, I wonder what the relationship for some people with Tourette's is and their experience with being silenced or keeping stuff in. I wonder if there's some sort of a link for some people with that.

Yeah, I wonder what the relationship for some people with Tourette's is and their experience with being silenced or keeping stuff in. I wonder if there's some sort of a link for some people with that.

You mean, because outbursts are unintentional. Outbursts are so kind of like fowned upon or.

You mean, because outbursts are unintentional. Outbursts are so kind of like fowned upon or.

No, no, no. I think more from the standpoint of a person suppressing their own expression so much that there's that you almost explode with some form of expression, just to stop holding everything in, just to have the ability to express.

No, no, no. I think more from the standpoint of a person suppressing their own expression so much that there's that you almost explode with some form of expression, just to stop holding everything in, just to have the ability to express.

So when I try to repress the tech, what impact does that have? Is that what you're saying, yeah, or.

So when I try to repress the tech, what impact does that have? Is that what you're saying, yeah, or.

Not even just the tick, but so you're so what I'm thinking is you're not speaking out about things. And let's look at your childhood and the things that the environment you were in.

Not even just the tick, but so you're so what I'm thinking is you're not speaking out about things. And let's look at your childhood and the things that the environment you were in.

Oh okay, that's interesting.

Oh okay, that's interesting.

How you had to hold certain ways things in, leave things unsaid, censor yourself. I wonder if the body, the soul system. Yeah, eventually goes, well, we need to express somehow, so it has these kind of little outbursts of expression of some sort.

How you had to hold certain ways things in, leave things unsaid, censor yourself. I wonder if the body, the soul system. Yeah, eventually goes, well, we need to express somehow, so it has these kind of little outbursts of expression of some sort.

To my knowledge, it doesn't have anything directly to do with that. I mean, tourette is hereditary. But you know, I've read stuff where there could be instances where the severity of texts could be related to trauma. So it's not just about repression, it's what's the level of trauma coupled with that repression. That's kind of interesting. And you know, there's there's also some evidence I believe, around incredibly high fevers. So I used to run like above life threatening fevers, like the temperature was just extreme, and there might be something about the permeability of the blood brain barrier that could bring about or exacerbate to acts. So that's interesting because I remember being told how high my fevers were.

To my knowledge, it doesn't have anything directly to do with that. I mean, tourette is hereditary. But you know, I've read stuff where there could be instances where the severity of texts could be related to trauma. So it's not just about repression, it's what's the level of trauma coupled with that repression. That's kind of interesting. And you know, there's there's also some evidence I believe, around incredibly high fevers. So I used to run like above life threatening fevers, like the temperature was just extreme, and there might be something about the permeability of the blood brain barrier that could bring about or exacerbate to acts. So that's interesting because I remember being told how high my fevers were.

Wow, let's talk about boundaries and how us setting or learning to or starting to set boundaries is actually also been a fits other people, because you briefly mentioned that before we started talking about all of this, before we hit record. More importantly, Yeah, and I'm interested in that because boundaries can feel like a very very selfish and demanding thing. But I think if we can understand the benefit to others as well, is there a benefit to others.

Wow, let's talk about boundaries and how us setting or learning to or starting to set boundaries is actually also been a fits other people, because you briefly mentioned that before we started talking about all of this, before we hit record. More importantly, Yeah, and I'm interested in that because boundaries can feel like a very very selfish and demanding thing. But I think if we can understand the benefit to others as well, is there a benefit to others.

Like it speaking you know from personal experience. Boundaries is something I've always understood for other people. And it's like, okay, right, I respect that, But I've always wondered, like some people, like they mentioned boundaries every minute. It's like, well, boundaries, my pa, It's like, I'm okay, Like what's going on? I've always wondered, are they Are they struggling with something? You know, like when something's inflamed and you touch it even lightly, it really hurts. And that's something I always wondered. But it's like, fair enough, I respect that. But with me, I always thought, oh, boundaries, you know, I don't know. Isn't that like being too inwardly focused on yourself? And it's weird where what's true for one person is not necessarily true for me in the same situation, same context, which leads you to believe, okay, it might not be true, like your thoughts might not be correct. And I started something happened recently. So me and my boss a while back, when I first came back into the States almost a year ago now, we were putting things together and she almost to me a question and it was strategic and that led to me heading up a team. But it wasn't just what it turned She wanted me in a leadership position, but what the team really wanted was a manager. They wanted management, not leadership, And like had a hard time discerning between what's the difference between the two. Like management, it's not me. It's just it's not where my where my skill sets are, and it's not where my interests are, like day to day managing people. And I was in a position where I was not at my best and I don't think I was at my best for others, and that really wehir to me because when you're in a leadership position, you're there serve people, and if you're not bringing value and you're not serving to me, it's just as bad or worse as bringing zero value to your consumers and not being able to retain customers. Right, you should be held accountable to at the very least, probably more so than that situation. But I kind of hinted, you know, the thing, things that you want me to do strategically would be a lot better served in another position. The issue is when it comes to people on my team. I'm highly differential because I feel truly I'm there to serve you. With people who I report into, I have none of that. I don't respect titles in any way, shape or formance, not meaning I have an issue with authority for the sake of having an issue with authority. I like a lot of people nowadays, Really it doesn't mean anything to me, And a lot of times I have much less patience for the people that are above me that I report into than my peers or people that are on my team. Unless where it really flips is I have, luckily many times in my life been in a situation where I had enormous respect for the individual and what they were trying to do. At that point, I am so sometimes I'll say pathologically loyal, and my boss I have a ton of not just admiration for her, but a lot of affection for her. Like we worked closely enough together for a certain period of time where I got to know what is what is this? What is this lady about? And it really brought us together professionally and we got very close. So I had a really hard time going to it and saying not in the right spot, you know, I would say it, but not, you know what I mean, I bring it up and talk about it in a meeting, talk about it in terms of strategy, and bring it. But I didn't really want to confront Hey, this is this is not like, this is not where I need to be right now, and this is damaging and here's the reasons why, and I need to step away. For me to have that conversation is so difficult. And I'm just using this as one example of my life. There are so many other examples where I look back on my life and I really needed to please people. I needed people to accept me. I needed people to be happy with me. And I understand how impossible that is. That is futile, and I understand how limiting and in some ways destructive that is. But if I'm honest with myself, I'm like, yeah, that's that's what was happening. So me having this conversation was a massive breakthrough. And you know what was amazing about this conversation, Right Like, when I had this conversation and I called up like cause I just reached the I'm done. What do you think my boss's responds to me? What do you think her concerns.

Like it speaking you know from personal experience. Boundaries is something I've always understood for other people. And it's like, okay, right, I respect that, But I've always wondered, like some people, like they mentioned boundaries every minute. It's like, well, boundaries, my pa, It's like, I'm okay, Like what's going on? I've always wondered, are they Are they struggling with something? You know, like when something's inflamed and you touch it even lightly, it really hurts. And that's something I always wondered. But it's like, fair enough, I respect that. But with me, I always thought, oh, boundaries, you know, I don't know. Isn't that like being too inwardly focused on yourself? And it's weird where what's true for one person is not necessarily true for me in the same situation, same context, which leads you to believe, okay, it might not be true, like your thoughts might not be correct. And I started something happened recently. So me and my boss a while back, when I first came back into the States almost a year ago now, we were putting things together and she almost to me a question and it was strategic and that led to me heading up a team. But it wasn't just what it turned She wanted me in a leadership position, but what the team really wanted was a manager. They wanted management, not leadership, And like had a hard time discerning between what's the difference between the two. Like management, it's not me. It's just it's not where my where my skill sets are, and it's not where my interests are, like day to day managing people. And I was in a position where I was not at my best and I don't think I was at my best for others, and that really wehir to me because when you're in a leadership position, you're there serve people, and if you're not bringing value and you're not serving to me, it's just as bad or worse as bringing zero value to your consumers and not being able to retain customers. Right, you should be held accountable to at the very least, probably more so than that situation. But I kind of hinted, you know, the thing, things that you want me to do strategically would be a lot better served in another position. The issue is when it comes to people on my team. I'm highly differential because I feel truly I'm there to serve you. With people who I report into, I have none of that. I don't respect titles in any way, shape or formance, not meaning I have an issue with authority for the sake of having an issue with authority. I like a lot of people nowadays, Really it doesn't mean anything to me, And a lot of times I have much less patience for the people that are above me that I report into than my peers or people that are on my team. Unless where it really flips is I have, luckily many times in my life been in a situation where I had enormous respect for the individual and what they were trying to do. At that point, I am so sometimes I'll say pathologically loyal, and my boss I have a ton of not just admiration for her, but a lot of affection for her. Like we worked closely enough together for a certain period of time where I got to know what is what is this? What is this lady about? And it really brought us together professionally and we got very close. So I had a really hard time going to it and saying not in the right spot, you know, I would say it, but not, you know what I mean, I bring it up and talk about it in a meeting, talk about it in terms of strategy, and bring it. But I didn't really want to confront Hey, this is this is not like, this is not where I need to be right now, and this is damaging and here's the reasons why, and I need to step away. For me to have that conversation is so difficult. And I'm just using this as one example of my life. There are so many other examples where I look back on my life and I really needed to please people. I needed people to accept me. I needed people to be happy with me. And I understand how impossible that is. That is futile, and I understand how limiting and in some ways destructive that is. But if I'm honest with myself, I'm like, yeah, that's that's what was happening. So me having this conversation was a massive breakthrough. And you know what was amazing about this conversation, Right Like, when I had this conversation and I called up like cause I just reached the I'm done. What do you think my boss's responds to me? What do you think her concerns.

If you were okay, totally around me.

If you were okay, totally around me.

Yeah, me first, Yeah, Then okay, let's talk about how this is going to happen, and then let's talk about the benefit to the organization, because I strongly believe that my ability to benefit the organization is much greater through leadership than it is through through management. And there's a lot of nuances there, but this context that I cannot get into, obviously, but the very first concern was all around me. Yeah, so I can't. I cannot bring myself to have this conversation like I will stare at the phone and go, I will make this work somehow, right or I'm open to trying this from multiple different perspectives the day I finally get to a point where Okay, I need to do something that's right for me. Otherwise I'm not going to be very useful to anyone around me, and I'm burnt out, and things that I normally do very well, I am doing quite poorly at the moment. And not all that's related to work. It's related to a lot of other things that are going on that was going on in my life around that I need. I need to take action on this, and when I do that, even the least thing that I was afraid was going to happen did not happen.

Yeah, me first, Yeah, Then okay, let's talk about how this is going to happen, and then let's talk about the benefit to the organization, because I strongly believe that my ability to benefit the organization is much greater through leadership than it is through through management. And there's a lot of nuances there, but this context that I cannot get into, obviously, but the very first concern was all around me. Yeah, so I can't. I cannot bring myself to have this conversation like I will stare at the phone and go, I will make this work somehow, right or I'm open to trying this from multiple different perspectives the day I finally get to a point where Okay, I need to do something that's right for me. Otherwise I'm not going to be very useful to anyone around me, and I'm burnt out, and things that I normally do very well, I am doing quite poorly at the moment. And not all that's related to work. It's related to a lot of other things that are going on that was going on in my life around that I need. I need to take action on this, and when I do that, even the least thing that I was afraid was going to happen did not happen.

Yeah, I heard recently. I can't remember where or who, but it was in the last couple of weeks someone referencing it that what seems to be trumping the number one human need these days is actually belonging. And it's no surprise to me whatsoever. I think you look at how the majority of us and acknowledging that we're living in first world privilege, but the majority of us are living these lives of independence and achievement and se from community and groups. So belonging and again looking at your need for safety in an environment means you need to be in an environment where you belong And you don't want to be a boss, and you don't want to be bossed. You want to be part of it. You've always you've always been someone who wants to be a part of a team where everyone's on the same mission and having a great time and learning and doing together. That's wired into you with your connector It's really weird.

Yeah, I heard recently. I can't remember where or who, but it was in the last couple of weeks someone referencing it that what seems to be trumping the number one human need these days is actually belonging. And it's no surprise to me whatsoever. I think you look at how the majority of us and acknowledging that we're living in first world privilege, but the majority of us are living these lives of independence and achievement and se from community and groups. So belonging and again looking at your need for safety in an environment means you need to be in an environment where you belong And you don't want to be a boss, and you don't want to be bossed. You want to be part of it. You've always you've always been someone who wants to be a part of a team where everyone's on the same mission and having a great time and learning and doing together. That's wired into you with your connector It's really weird.

It's really weird because I've always been most comfortable on the stage, but like, once I'm off the stage, I don't want to be like out front. I want to be with a team, supporting people. That's where I feel I feel so comfortable performing and teaching, although that's kind of shifting lately, But where I really feel comfortable is supporting a group of people that are committed to the same thing, a group of people that I love and care about, and we all care about, a uniting, galvanizing like kind of vision. I would say belonging is the quintessential human need because it is the need that all of the other basic human needs are either filtered through or dependent upon. Like you alluded to, if survival and safety, if we look at Masow's hierarchy are foundational, and in that hierarchy, they're foundational in relation to belonging. Good luck with either of those without one another. Like today, you kind of can, right, I could survive. I don't know how psychologically or emotionally safe I am, but I could survive being a hoarder living all by myself in my apartment.

It's really weird because I've always been most comfortable on the stage, but like, once I'm off the stage, I don't want to be like out front. I want to be with a team, supporting people. That's where I feel I feel so comfortable performing and teaching, although that's kind of shifting lately, But where I really feel comfortable is supporting a group of people that are committed to the same thing, a group of people that I love and care about, and we all care about, a uniting, galvanizing like kind of vision. I would say belonging is the quintessential human need because it is the need that all of the other basic human needs are either filtered through or dependent upon. Like you alluded to, if survival and safety, if we look at Masow's hierarchy are foundational, and in that hierarchy, they're foundational in relation to belonging. Good luck with either of those without one another. Like today, you kind of can, right, I could survive. I don't know how psychologically or emotionally safe I am, but I could survive being a hoarder living all by myself in my apartment.

Right.

Right.

There are people in New York City who do that, I'm sure in every city. But historically, yeah, you're not going to last more than twenty four hours if you don't have a sense of belonging and think about think about esteam. How do I know what esteam and significance is if it's not in relation to how I've been socialized through my contact with other people or actualization for that matter, And forget contribution, Who exactly am I contributing to? I think belonging is the filter through which we process where we are in all of those other human needs. I could be dead wrong, but to me, that's what seems to make sense because there's things that we don't look at. We look at the symptoms of things or contributing factors, but we don't look at the root. Like we'll say, oh, well, this person's lazy, for example, and it's like, okay, Well, if I'm in a time of stress and I need certainty and I'm someone who has had success in academia or work, I'm going to double down and drive because that's where I get my certainty from. But what if I have a history of uncertainty around that, or I do not have a body of evidence that I'm recognizing Because you do have evidence, but I don't have evidence that I'm recognizing that supports that I've ever been successful. I'm going to disengage because what's the point of even engaging if I have a zero probability of success? So in times of stress, I'll disengage from things, and I'll interpret that or other people to interpret that. It's like, oh, that's laziest, But what's the root cause and why does that show up when I'm stressed and not so and when I'm not so stressed or I don't feel like I'm under threat, that pattern isn't there or it's not nearly as ingresined what's going on? So we got to go deeper, like Gallup with Okay, well, what's what is the number one driver of well being? And no, it wasn't broccoli right, and it wasn't it was it was it was the bloody kale who knew right, And they're talking about career. So recently I gave I gave a seminar with a consultant and speaker from Gallup. It's amazing I was able to focus. You know me, I'm such a fanboy, like I don't know. I think she got annoyed like me, like following around and asking her for her autograph all day. But what she said, like her definition and this is like Gallup's definition. She didn't come up with it, but what she communicated around well being, God, this is such a beautiful definition. Talked about expansive, resonant, and inclusive. She said, well being is what is most important to you. And on this stage she clarified, in other words, what do you deeply love? She did not speak like that because she's a normal person, but anyway, that's just my emphasis. What is most important to you? In other words, what you deeply love, what you think about most of the time, and your experience of life, what does it feel like, what is it like to be you? Those three things comprise well being. Now there are things that help to modulate that, like what you eat, how you move, you know, how you manage stress, how you interpret stress, how you sleep. But it's not the essence of it. These are components of it that we double down on, but it's not the essence. And that's why career is the number one predictor and driver of well being because think about that, I have purpose, I matter, I'm contributing to something when i'm when I am invested, and I am getting career satisfaction, contributing to something greater than myself. It is connected to my values. I have social connections on a meaningful level. It's not like, hey, we all love hanging out with each other and having a point at the pub and that's great, right, no comment on that. But it's like, no, we all like hanging out and doing shit that changes, if not the world, someone else's world for the better. And you're probably good at what you do to the point where you're not in dire financial situation, right, You're probably able to live in a community where you feel safe and you feel engaged and you're thriving. So you have that socialization, you have financial wellbeing, you have community well being, you know. And if you've got all that and you're feeling good, you're probably energetically engaging in physical practices that support physical well being. So you think about, like, what's that drive or what's that line, pin, I think like, well, like belonging is kind of that driver.

There are people in New York City who do that, I'm sure in every city. But historically, yeah, you're not going to last more than twenty four hours if you don't have a sense of belonging and think about think about esteam. How do I know what esteam and significance is if it's not in relation to how I've been socialized through my contact with other people or actualization for that matter, And forget contribution, Who exactly am I contributing to? I think belonging is the filter through which we process where we are in all of those other human needs. I could be dead wrong, but to me, that's what seems to make sense because there's things that we don't look at. We look at the symptoms of things or contributing factors, but we don't look at the root. Like we'll say, oh, well, this person's lazy, for example, and it's like, okay, Well, if I'm in a time of stress and I need certainty and I'm someone who has had success in academia or work, I'm going to double down and drive because that's where I get my certainty from. But what if I have a history of uncertainty around that, or I do not have a body of evidence that I'm recognizing Because you do have evidence, but I don't have evidence that I'm recognizing that supports that I've ever been successful. I'm going to disengage because what's the point of even engaging if I have a zero probability of success? So in times of stress, I'll disengage from things, and I'll interpret that or other people to interpret that. It's like, oh, that's laziest, But what's the root cause and why does that show up when I'm stressed and not so and when I'm not so stressed or I don't feel like I'm under threat, that pattern isn't there or it's not nearly as ingresined what's going on? So we got to go deeper, like Gallup with Okay, well, what's what is the number one driver of well being? And no, it wasn't broccoli right, and it wasn't it was it was it was the bloody kale who knew right, And they're talking about career. So recently I gave I gave a seminar with a consultant and speaker from Gallup. It's amazing I was able to focus. You know me, I'm such a fanboy, like I don't know. I think she got annoyed like me, like following around and asking her for her autograph all day. But what she said, like her definition and this is like Gallup's definition. She didn't come up with it, but what she communicated around well being, God, this is such a beautiful definition. Talked about expansive, resonant, and inclusive. She said, well being is what is most important to you. And on this stage she clarified, in other words, what do you deeply love? She did not speak like that because she's a normal person, but anyway, that's just my emphasis. What is most important to you? In other words, what you deeply love, what you think about most of the time, and your experience of life, what does it feel like, what is it like to be you? Those three things comprise well being. Now there are things that help to modulate that, like what you eat, how you move, you know, how you manage stress, how you interpret stress, how you sleep. But it's not the essence of it. These are components of it that we double down on, but it's not the essence. And that's why career is the number one predictor and driver of well being because think about that, I have purpose, I matter, I'm contributing to something when i'm when I am invested, and I am getting career satisfaction, contributing to something greater than myself. It is connected to my values. I have social connections on a meaningful level. It's not like, hey, we all love hanging out with each other and having a point at the pub and that's great, right, no comment on that. But it's like, no, we all like hanging out and doing shit that changes, if not the world, someone else's world for the better. And you're probably good at what you do to the point where you're not in dire financial situation, right, You're probably able to live in a community where you feel safe and you feel engaged and you're thriving. So you have that socialization, you have financial wellbeing, you have community well being, you know. And if you've got all that and you're feeling good, you're probably energetically engaging in physical practices that support physical well being. So you think about, like, what's that drive or what's that line, pin, I think like, well, like belonging is kind of that driver.

I just want to just interrupt you for a subtle brag. I'm showing Bobby right now on the screen my last night's sleep chat with that. Look at that.

I just want to just interrupt you for a subtle brag. I'm showing Bobby right now on the screen my last night's sleep chat with that. Look at that.

Does that say because because that's blurry? Does that say nine hours and fifty three minutes?

Does that say because because that's blurry? Does that say nine hours and fifty three minutes?

That says nine hours, fifteen minutes I went to sleep. I was asleep by eight twenty five pm. That's got to be a world record for me.

That says nine hours, fifteen minutes I went to sleep. I was asleep by eight twenty five pm. That's got to be a world record for me.

Deep, I think there might be living in your household.

Deep, I think there might be living in your household.

Actually, I woke up and I was like, because I thought, if I go to bed this early and sleep, I'm going to wake up at stupid o'clock. Because the night before I had a terrible sleep, so it's not surprising. But I woke up at one and I stayed awake all night, and I was like, it's that bad, horrible I worry about going to sleep that early. And I woke up and I sent Harps a message. I was like, I just won the Olympic gold for sleeping. I am, will you sleep?

Actually, I woke up and I was like, because I thought, if I go to bed this early and sleep, I'm going to wake up at stupid o'clock. Because the night before I had a terrible sleep, so it's not surprising. But I woke up at one and I stayed awake all night, and I was like, it's that bad, horrible I worry about going to sleep that early. And I woke up and I sent Harps a message. I was like, I just won the Olympic gold for sleeping. I am, will you sleep?

You hibernated legitimately, Like I go forty five minutes a night without being woken up lately because I have someone on top of me and then stepping on my face. And if that's not bad enough, then I got the cat distracting me.

You hibernated legitimately, Like I go forty five minutes a night without being woken up lately because I have someone on top of me and then stepping on my face. And if that's not bad enough, then I got the cat distracting me.

So I've told you gotta lock that prisoner up to sleep. You gotta lock her up.

So I've told you gotta lock that prisoner up to sleep. You gotta lock her up.

You know I tried that, but you know I can't do that to Amy.

You know I tried that, but you know I can't do that to Amy.

Yes, just put a little box in the room with her. She'll be right.

Yes, just put a little box in the room with her. She'll be right.

So I'm at marriage counselor this time next month. So what happened, Well, first he put me in this room and gave me a little box.

So I'm at marriage counselor this time next month. So what happened, Well, first he put me in this room and gave me a little box.

You're like, this is flipped on my face and wake me up.

You're like, this is flipped on my face and wake me up.

Therapist is like, you know, I'm gonna to the I'll be straight back. She quits. She's like, I'm done. I'm here.

Therapist is like, you know, I'm gonna to the I'll be straight back. She quits. She's like, I'm done. I'm here.

All right, give us a wrap up, give us an episode wrap up, because you're good at those.

All right, give us a wrap up, give us an episode wrap up, because you're good at those.

Oh you know, I think I think I've said this before. Sometimes when we hear self care, we confuse it with self indulgence. But what it really is is an honest assessment. It's not like a spa day and like cucumbers on your eyes. It's an honest assessment of what do I need to function at my best? And not only is that not self indulgent and selfish. Sometimes asking that question is the most selfless, non self centered question you could possibly ask, because you can only like me. People always say I can't really pour from an empty cup. It's like when you get to a point of burnout, which is something I am increasingly focused on in talking about, because it's an epidemic. Lately, you start to not only lose the joy in things that you once loved to do, but despite your greatest efforts, and sometimes because of your greatest efforts, in the midst of this state, your performance and creativity erods to where you no longer can recognize yourself and you're of no value to others. And I think that's the lesson that I've learned is, Okay, you want to be about other people, What does that require from you? What are you responsible for, not in terms of what you give to them, but what you need to give to yourself in order to show up as that human.