You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B. Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen on News Talk zed B.

You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed B. Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Real Conversation, Real Connection. It's Real Life with John Cowen on News Talk zed B.

Gooday, welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowan and one of the things I'm glad this show has been able to do over the years is bring to light a side of New Zealand life that gets far too little attention. And that's the good stuff, the generous and kind stuff that just doesn't make for good attention grabbing news headlines, but it helps make this nation one that we can be proud of. And my guest tonight has been involved in that type of good stuff. He's been involved in the leadership of World Vision for many years. Johono Fletcher. Welcome John, Oh, thank you John.

Gooday, welcome to Real Life. I'm John Cowan and one of the things I'm glad this show has been able to do over the years is bring to light a side of New Zealand life that gets far too little attention. And that's the good stuff, the generous and kind stuff that just doesn't make for good attention grabbing news headlines, but it helps make this nation one that we can be proud of. And my guest tonight has been involved in that type of good stuff. He's been involved in the leadership of World Vision for many years. Johono Fletcher. Welcome John, Oh, thank you John.

It's are a pleasure to be here.

It's are a pleasure to be here.

How are you going?

How are you going?

Very good? Glad to be an Auckland.

Very good? Glad to be an Auckland.

You had a good summer.

You had a good summer.

Yeah, we had four weeks. I had four weeks holiday and didn't leave. We listed in Wellington the whole time. I think the first Christmas we've had in Wallington where we had a staycation.

Yeah, we had four weeks. I had four weeks holiday and didn't leave. We listed in Wellington the whole time. I think the first Christmas we've had in Wallington where we had a staycation.

Right now, the look I nearly said something unflattering about people who want to stay at Wellington must go to a lot of other places. But no, look, Wellington, that's great, But you've been in a lot of places where probably you probably wouldn't want to have a holiday. Where have you been too, just lately?

Right now, the look I nearly said something unflattering about people who want to stay at Wellington must go to a lot of other places. But no, look, Wellington, that's great, But you've been in a lot of places where probably you probably wouldn't want to have a holiday. Where have you been too, just lately?

Well, my last trip was in December to the Solomon Islands, Yes, which, to be fair, is probably one of the most beautiful countries I've ever visited.

Well, my last trip was in December to the Solomon Islands, Yes, which, to be fair, is probably one of the most beautiful countries I've ever visited.

Right, so that's not you know, yeah, that is a beautiful place. And where else have you been?

Right, so that's not you know, yeah, that is a beautiful place. And where else have you been?

So prior to that? In August I had a I was in Uganda for a week and then two weeks in Malawi a little harder or a lot hard well, not a little both both very poor countries. A lot of people, a lot of New Zealanders wouldn't recognize that Solomon Islands and Vana are two of the poorest countries in the world. We always think of, you know, maybe more obvious places parts of Africa or Asia. But yeah, it's a challenge and.

So prior to that? In August I had a I was in Uganda for a week and then two weeks in Malawi a little harder or a lot hard well, not a little both both very poor countries. A lot of people, a lot of New Zealanders wouldn't recognize that Solomon Islands and Vana are two of the poorest countries in the world. We always think of, you know, maybe more obvious places parts of Africa or Asia. But yeah, it's a challenge and.

World Vision is involved in all these places and your role with them it's often involves taking people to these places.

World Vision is involved in all these places and your role with them it's often involves taking people to these places.

Yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a I mean, you're.

Yeah, it's it's a it's a it's a I mean, you're.

Not a tour guide. No, I don't want to accuse you of sort of disaster tourism or poverty tourism, or some ghoulish fascination with staring at people that are hungry, or and I think with that same type of sex fascination that people have as they drive slowly past the car wreck. So who are you taking to these places? And why?

Not a tour guide. No, I don't want to accuse you of sort of disaster tourism or poverty tourism, or some ghoulish fascination with staring at people that are hungry, or and I think with that same type of sex fascination that people have as they drive slowly past the car wreck. So who are you taking to these places? And why?

Well, look, I think the reality is that you're one hundred percent right. We do not want poverty tourism. I couldn't think of anything worse than turning up a bus and trapping a whole lot of kiwis through a village somewhere and gorulishly looking as you put it. So, we do a lot of work before we travel. And one of the key resources we use as a resource called when helping hurts, and it really teaches from a certainly from a faith perspective, from a Christian perspective, are why are we going in the first place? And could that money be used for something much better? So if that's the case, how do we get the most out of this trip to make sure that you make a difference in the world from this trip rather than just see and then come back and be the same as you were when you're left.

Well, look, I think the reality is that you're one hundred percent right. We do not want poverty tourism. I couldn't think of anything worse than turning up a bus and trapping a whole lot of kiwis through a village somewhere and gorulishly looking as you put it. So, we do a lot of work before we travel. And one of the key resources we use as a resource called when helping hurts, and it really teaches from a certainly from a faith perspective, from a Christian perspective, are why are we going in the first place? And could that money be used for something much better? So if that's the case, how do we get the most out of this trip to make sure that you make a difference in the world from this trip rather than just see and then come back and be the same as you were when you're left.

So the people you're taking are going to be white, priming the pump for donors back here and things.

So the people you're taking are going to be white, priming the pump for donors back here and things.

It could be a variety. So for example, the trip to the Solomon Islands, it was with our Youth Ambassadors, So they're the ones who are going to the eighteen year olds that are coming back to New Zealand this year and we'll be on high school and primary school stages all over the country promoting the World Vision forty Hour Challenge. So it's about giving them an experience that they can talk authentically about. It's also about gathering the content we need to be able to show young New Zealanders what the world looks like. On other trips, for example, Uganda was with a radio station who were doing a large fundraising bush and Malawi was with a church that have given a lot to Worldvision and in the particular to this community. But New Zealand is understanding of poverty is often quite primitive and that was one of the things that struck me when I came to Wild Vision.

It could be a variety. So for example, the trip to the Solomon Islands, it was with our Youth Ambassadors, So they're the ones who are going to the eighteen year olds that are coming back to New Zealand this year and we'll be on high school and primary school stages all over the country promoting the World Vision forty Hour Challenge. So it's about giving them an experience that they can talk authentically about. It's also about gathering the content we need to be able to show young New Zealanders what the world looks like. On other trips, for example, Uganda was with a radio station who were doing a large fundraising bush and Malawi was with a church that have given a lot to Worldvision and in the particular to this community. But New Zealand is understanding of poverty is often quite primitive and that was one of the things that struck me when I came to Wild Vision.

Well, what do you mean by primitive? What is a what is ignorant?

Well, what do you mean by primitive? What is a what is ignorant?

Now?

Now?

Understanding of poslible.

Understanding of poslible.

Maybe simplistic is the word. From my perspective. When I came to Wilvision. You know, my background was in finance, and the way I saw the world and saw poverty was very much the way most New Zealanders do. It's an economic thing, so we talk about when we talk about poverty, we're usually talking about money. When I came to wil Vision, I was constantly grappling with that thinking that doesn't solve everything. Not all suffering is related to money. It can be a big part, it's a huge part of the solution, but it's got to be more to it. So I started reading, particularly Bryant Meier's book Walking with the Poor or Jaikuma Christian's book The God of the Empty Handed, and it talks about defined redefining poverty. Because we've defined poverty wrong, then we solve it wrong. So if we define poverty is not enough stuff, then the answer is to give them more stuff. From a Christian perspective, and certainly in Christian development, we would say that poverty is about broken relationships at its core. So if I have a broken relationship with God, with myself, with creation, with others, then that brokenness is a form of poverty, and broken people create unjust systems.

Maybe simplistic is the word. From my perspective. When I came to Wilvision. You know, my background was in finance, and the way I saw the world and saw poverty was very much the way most New Zealanders do. It's an economic thing, so we talk about when we talk about poverty, we're usually talking about money. When I came to wil Vision, I was constantly grappling with that thinking that doesn't solve everything. Not all suffering is related to money. It can be a big part, it's a huge part of the solution, but it's got to be more to it. So I started reading, particularly Bryant Meier's book Walking with the Poor or Jaikuma Christian's book The God of the Empty Handed, and it talks about defined redefining poverty. Because we've defined poverty wrong, then we solve it wrong. So if we define poverty is not enough stuff, then the answer is to give them more stuff. From a Christian perspective, and certainly in Christian development, we would say that poverty is about broken relationships at its core. So if I have a broken relationship with God, with myself, with creation, with others, then that brokenness is a form of poverty, and broken people create unjust systems.

Okay, isn't that that sounds like it could be almost like victim shaming. Oh, they're poor because they deserve it, as if you know, all they need to do is get their heads and hearts sorted out and they'll be right. Well, but I'm sure that's not what you're saying. You know, it's played the Devil's advocate. No, just let me just fit my horns underneath my headphones again.

Okay, isn't that that sounds like it could be almost like victim shaming. Oh, they're poor because they deserve it, as if you know, all they need to do is get their heads and hearts sorted out and they'll be right. Well, but I'm sure that's not what you're saying. You know, it's played the Devil's advocate. No, just let me just fit my horns underneath my headphones again.

But it does fit into the narrative that we to optically had most I would say most New Zealanders fit into two camps. And I don't like the left right political continue I think it's become a weapon that's been unhelpful. But I do think that some New Zealanders would say that the poor people are poor because they're lazy. Others would say people are poor because they're victims. Both have elements of truth, but are largely wrong. The poor are not victims, and when we treat them like victims, we diminish their dignity. We believe that everyone was made in the image of God, so everyone has an inherent worth and value. And in fact, there was some research done a few years ago by the UN, and they studied thousands and thousands of what we call low income people are poor people, and we asked them what was your greatest need and their greatest but they didn't. Number one on the list was not food, It was not water, it was not healthcare, it wasn't education. It was dignity.

But it does fit into the narrative that we to optically had most I would say most New Zealanders fit into two camps. And I don't like the left right political continue I think it's become a weapon that's been unhelpful. But I do think that some New Zealanders would say that the poor people are poor because they're lazy. Others would say people are poor because they're victims. Both have elements of truth, but are largely wrong. The poor are not victims, and when we treat them like victims, we diminish their dignity. We believe that everyone was made in the image of God, so everyone has an inherent worth and value. And in fact, there was some research done a few years ago by the UN, and they studied thousands and thousands of what we call low income people are poor people, and we asked them what was your greatest need and their greatest but they didn't. Number one on the list was not food, It was not water, it was not healthcare, it wasn't education. It was dignity.

Okay, Well that brings me back to your taking people over there, and how do these people feel about being looked at? You know, do they feel like they're on show? How does that impact their sense of dignity?

Okay, Well that brings me back to your taking people over there, and how do these people feel about being looked at? You know, do they feel like they're on show? How does that impact their sense of dignity?

Well, that's not how we go. So when we go, we're not going there. And this is part of what the pre training is about, it saying we're not going there just to look. We're going there to understand our own poverty. Because when we get there, what most people come back with. And so, man, they had a joy that I couldn't understand despite the natural poverty. I could see there was a joy that I couldn't understand, or a hope or maybe it's different in different context.

Well, that's not how we go. So when we go, we're not going there. And this is part of what the pre training is about, it saying we're not going there just to look. We're going there to understand our own poverty. Because when we get there, what most people come back with. And so, man, they had a joy that I couldn't understand despite the natural poverty. I could see there was a joy that I couldn't understand, or a hope or maybe it's different in different context.

Now I was going to ask you what is it that surprises them? Because we can all go online and look at YouTube videos of deprivation and poverty and places needing more development and things. So what is it that the people that you take there, what do they get that they couldn't get from a good report, a good book, a good video.

Now I was going to ask you what is it that surprises them? Because we can all go online and look at YouTube videos of deprivation and poverty and places needing more development and things. So what is it that the people that you take there, what do they get that they couldn't get from a good report, a good book, a good video.

Yeah, well, it depends on the age, it depends on the individual. So when I take young people to the vieldin I just took my middle son with me on the last trip to Malawi, was nineteen at the time, and I know how important that was for me to see this, to see those element parts of the world as a seventeen year old, And you don't always know it at the time, but then you start to see how it affected the rest of your life. I think when you're a young person, there's a sense of who they are in the context of the world where they maybe have more than they thought and have less than they thought.

Yeah, well, it depends on the age, it depends on the individual. So when I take young people to the vieldin I just took my middle son with me on the last trip to Malawi, was nineteen at the time, and I know how important that was for me to see this, to see those element parts of the world as a seventeen year old, And you don't always know it at the time, but then you start to see how it affected the rest of your life. I think when you're a young person, there's a sense of who they are in the context of the world where they maybe have more than they thought and have less than they thought.

Okay, you got to unpack then, yes, okay.

Okay, you got to unpack then, yes, okay.

Yeah, So the young people come back and they realize, okay, I'm a lot wealthier. The hardest thing is I've had a few that have come back landed in New Zealand and December and their mothers picked them up not knowing. You know, the family doesn't know what the journey they've been on. Often they've come back and they've been packed up and taken straight to the mall to do Christmas shopping, and they some of them end up on a seat and tears in the mall, like how do I reconcile? I? You know, our family are so wealthy compared to the families I've just met and the young people have just met. So there's that element. The other element they start to see is they had a connection to their families that I didn't have. They have a community that I wish I had. They don't seem to have the same mental health struggles that I have. They're rich in here and I'm rich and here, and how it's not all one or the other. And so yeah, that it widens the understanding of what poverty really is.

Yeah, So the young people come back and they realize, okay, I'm a lot wealthier. The hardest thing is I've had a few that have come back landed in New Zealand and December and their mothers picked them up not knowing. You know, the family doesn't know what the journey they've been on. Often they've come back and they've been packed up and taken straight to the mall to do Christmas shopping, and they some of them end up on a seat and tears in the mall, like how do I reconcile? I? You know, our family are so wealthy compared to the families I've just met and the young people have just met. So there's that element. The other element they start to see is they had a connection to their families that I didn't have. They have a community that I wish I had. They don't seem to have the same mental health struggles that I have. They're rich in here and I'm rich and here, and how it's not all one or the other. And so yeah, that it widens the understanding of what poverty really is.

Okay, It's interesting that reaction when people come back, and I'm just wondering, you know, how do you feel when you come back to New Zealand, to our easy, affluent, safe society after being in these places where even say fresh water is a luxury that can't afford.

Okay, It's interesting that reaction when people come back, and I'm just wondering, you know, how do you feel when you come back to New Zealand, to our easy, affluent, safe society after being in these places where even say fresh water is a luxury that can't afford.

Yeah, my wife and my daughter in particular love to shop, and so every now and then I'll get a comment like, don't bring your welvish and stuff home here. You know, when I'm curbing their expenditure. My wife ends a lot more than I do, so I have only limited authority when it goes. That's that's the challenge. I'm the one who walks through them all with an ethical clothing guide or whatever. And the kids hate it.

Yeah, my wife and my daughter in particular love to shop, and so every now and then I'll get a comment like, don't bring your welvish and stuff home here. You know, when I'm curbing their expenditure. My wife ends a lot more than I do, so I have only limited authority when it goes. That's that's the challenge. I'm the one who walks through them all with an ethical clothing guide or whatever. And the kids hate it.

I remember Tony campolla Was would say, you know, those kids would hate it when you'd come back from Haiti and they say, oh, Dad, were some new shoes. You shoes? You know what the gets over there are wearing. So you get a bit, they get a bit of that from you something.

I remember Tony campolla Was would say, you know, those kids would hate it when you'd come back from Haiti and they say, oh, Dad, were some new shoes. You shoes? You know what the gets over there are wearing. So you get a bit, they get a bit of that from you something.

But I was imperfect as the next person I have. You know, there's what you know in your head and then there's your natural impulses. So okay, there was a conundrum there.

But I was imperfect as the next person I have. You know, there's what you know in your head and then there's your natural impulses. So okay, there was a conundrum there.

Hey, let's I just want to get back to the stuff that World Vision is actually doing there. And you say you're in Malawi and I was reading a little bit about where you were, and it was actually wrapping up a project that World Vision has been doing for eighteen years. I think it was. And I think most people probably think of World Vision in terms of sponsoring a child sort of a one to one connection of helping one person connecting and helping one other person on the other side of the world. But World Vision does projects.

Hey, let's I just want to get back to the stuff that World Vision is actually doing there. And you say you're in Malawi and I was reading a little bit about where you were, and it was actually wrapping up a project that World Vision has been doing for eighteen years. I think it was. And I think most people probably think of World Vision in terms of sponsoring a child sort of a one to one connection of helping one person connecting and helping one other person on the other side of the world. But World Vision does projects.

Well and those are connected. So that is often the way we think about it as a sort of direct benefit model. Wildvision hasn't worked that way for a long time in that sense. So the child is there's a real child on the other end, yes, and it is a child that you have on your fridge, and that child is an abassador for their community. There are some particular benefits that that child gets by being sponsored. The biggest benefit and this will make all of your child sponsor listeners feel guilty. I'm sure because I'm one of those. Is the letters that you write or don't write, have a profound effect on their life. We have stories all of them. We have a lot of staff who are ex sponsored children, and they talk about the fact that somebody was somebody cared, somebody was asking about their education. I better study harder, I better push through some challenges because it's important.

Well and those are connected. So that is often the way we think about it as a sort of direct benefit model. Wildvision hasn't worked that way for a long time in that sense. So the child is there's a real child on the other end, yes, and it is a child that you have on your fridge, and that child is an abassador for their community. There are some particular benefits that that child gets by being sponsored. The biggest benefit and this will make all of your child sponsor listeners feel guilty. I'm sure because I'm one of those. Is the letters that you write or don't write, have a profound effect on their life. We have stories all of them. We have a lot of staff who are ex sponsored children, and they talk about the fact that somebody was somebody cared, somebody was asking about their education. I better study harder, I better push through some challenges because it's important.

Really, I never wrote to any sponsors you and most of us, I'll just crawl under the desk and feel guilty. But they have them on our fridge.

Really, I never wrote to any sponsors you and most of us, I'll just crawl under the desk and feel guilty. But they have them on our fridge.

Yeah, And so that's one of the big benefits. There are other things we have ninety DH checks and other things that the sponsor child gets, but primarily it's their community that benefits. And so you know, it would be very hard to put a well into a location and then just give the sponsored children a swipe card or something. Only they can use it because.

Yeah, And so that's one of the big benefits. There are other things we have ninety DH checks and other things that the sponsor child gets, but primarily it's their community that benefits. And so you know, it would be very hard to put a well into a location and then just give the sponsored children a swipe card or something. Only they can use it because.

They're the sponsored child. So you'll be working, so it doesn't go all direct lead of a child, It goes to their whole community. Correct, Yeah, and how do you how do you get to the point where you're saying, right, we're finishing this community? Would seem to be the case in this visit that you're doing. Is there some ceremony handing over to a government or a master or something.

They're the sponsored child. So you'll be working, so it doesn't go all direct lead of a child, It goes to their whole community. Correct, Yeah, and how do you how do you get to the point where you're saying, right, we're finishing this community? Would seem to be the case in this visit that you're doing. Is there some ceremony handing over to a government or a master or something.

It's actually, honestly, John, it's one of the best parts of the job is because it's like, do we achieve something here?

It's actually, honestly, John, it's one of the best parts of the job is because it's like, do we achieve something here?

What did you achieve?

What did you achieve?

Yeah? Isn't poverty supposed to be an unbeatable problem? And so to be able to come and say when we start in a community, it's usually a ten or fifteen year program, So we think in ten to fifteen years, if the community can't now carry on in their own we've failed. If we haven't equipped them. If we're there forever, then that's not a win. So it always as an end date. Sometimes disasters happen or things happen that mean.

Yeah? Isn't poverty supposed to be an unbeatable problem? And so to be able to come and say when we start in a community, it's usually a ten or fifteen year program, So we think in ten to fifteen years, if the community can't now carry on in their own we've failed. If we haven't equipped them. If we're there forever, then that's not a win. So it always as an end date. Sometimes disasters happen or things happen that mean.

They're just ended.

They're just ended.

So eighteen years we were going to the choosing party. It's a handing over of some of the assets that we've built to the local community or to the local council. But the best thing out of that meeting was the amount of people that came to us. Thank you, World Vision, but we don't need you anymore.

So eighteen years we were going to the choosing party. It's a handing over of some of the assets that we've built to the local community or to the local council. But the best thing out of that meeting was the amount of people that came to us. Thank you, World Vision, but we don't need you anymore.

We've got this look just to show that I've been interested in talk to you. I went on trackdown I think the Lasser News from Malawi, and then it's quoting here that Derby said ninety eight percent of the people in the area now have access to clean water. One hundred and twenty nine bore holes went drawn. In twenty thirteen, forty nine percent of the children were stunted in their development and growth, and that's been reduced down to just a fraction of that. And that they've built a girls hostel and so there's a whole lot of resilient stuff there being built into a whole community.

We've got this look just to show that I've been interested in talk to you. I went on trackdown I think the Lasser News from Malawi, and then it's quoting here that Derby said ninety eight percent of the people in the area now have access to clean water. One hundred and twenty nine bore holes went drawn. In twenty thirteen, forty nine percent of the children were stunted in their development and growth, and that's been reduced down to just a fraction of that. And that they've built a girls hostel and so there's a whole lot of resilient stuff there being built into a whole community.

Yeah, and a big part that's not in there is say.

Yeah, and a big part that's not in there is say.

Look, at that you didn't even have to say that yourself, so you know it's hey, we got to take a break. But if you've just tuned in, my guest tonight is from World Vision, Jonathan Fletcher, who has a very interesting job and that takes them all around the world promoting and developing projects that World Vision are doing. And we'll be talking more about his life and background. Howd he end up in a role like that? This is real life. I'm John Cown and you're listening to news Talk.

Look, at that you didn't even have to say that yourself, so you know it's hey, we got to take a break. But if you've just tuned in, my guest tonight is from World Vision, Jonathan Fletcher, who has a very interesting job and that takes them all around the world promoting and developing projects that World Vision are doing. And we'll be talking more about his life and background. Howd he end up in a role like that? This is real life. I'm John Cown and you're listening to news Talk.

ZEDB intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news Talk ZEDB.

ZEDB intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news Talk ZEDB.

Gosh, that's a voice I haven't heard for a long time. It's been chosen by my guests and I Jonathan Fletcher from World Vision and Keith what was his name, Keith Keith Green, very prominent musician back in the day. And so does this date back to some earlier version of yourself?

Gosh, that's a voice I haven't heard for a long time. It's been chosen by my guests and I Jonathan Fletcher from World Vision and Keith what was his name, Keith Keith Green, very prominent musician back in the day. And so does this date back to some earlier version of yourself?

I don't think an earlier version was certainly a formative element. I think I remember when I was at Excellent School forming out. We'll had to read his book No Compromise, and I found that deeply, deeply challenging in a positive way.

I don't think an earlier version was certainly a formative element. I think I remember when I was at Excellent School forming out. We'll had to read his book No Compromise, and I found that deeply, deeply challenging in a positive way.

Now we've been talking about world Vision, and World Vision is a Christian organization, no surprises, Jonathan's a Christian. But not all Christians have the sense of a a wide world of people that deserve to be concerned about, and you do. And I'm just wondering what influences happened in your Christian faith or in your life that have made you sort of aware of a world out there that needs help.

Now we've been talking about world Vision, and World Vision is a Christian organization, no surprises, Jonathan's a Christian. But not all Christians have the sense of a a wide world of people that deserve to be concerned about, and you do. And I'm just wondering what influences happened in your Christian faith or in your life that have made you sort of aware of a world out there that needs help.

Hmmm. Look, on the one head, I don't think I'm special. I don't think there's some unique element that about me that that means maybe I care for the poor more than the next person. I say that because I don't think anyone. I don't want anyone disqualify themselves from helping the poor or sponsory child. You'd like to get du Well Vision DOTG.

Hmmm. Look, on the one head, I don't think I'm special. I don't think there's some unique element that about me that that means maybe I care for the poor more than the next person. I say that because I don't think anyone. I don't want anyone disqualify themselves from helping the poor or sponsory child. You'd like to get du Well Vision DOTG.

I was hoping to leave it to you specialists, Okay.

I was hoping to leave it to you specialists, Okay.

But I think there were certainly some elements in my life that I reflect on. My dad has a very pastoral heart.

But I think there were certainly some elements in my life that I reflect on. My dad has a very pastoral heart.

What do you mean by that?

What do you mean by that?

So our house was always full of young people, It was always full of anyone that Dad felt was you know, I just wanted a safe home or a place to be. Mom and they were both like that, but particularly they're very pastor or very compassion, and it couldn't leave someone who needed something, they couldn't ignore it.

So our house was always full of young people, It was always full of anyone that Dad felt was you know, I just wanted a safe home or a place to be. Mom and they were both like that, but particularly they're very pastor or very compassion, and it couldn't leave someone who needed something, they couldn't ignore it.

And have about a sense of other people, other cultures, of a races being just part of our brotherhood and of humanity.

And have about a sense of other people, other cultures, of a races being just part of our brotherhood and of humanity.

I'm not sure where that comes from in me, but it's I'm super I love culture. I'm super curious. I love hearing my staff speak in their mother tongue. I love embracing those elements to it. Growing up in Tiataty South in the in the seventies and eighties, it was a multicultural society, particularly Pacifica and Mary and Pakia. I'm a kid at the time. I don't think about how that was affecting me, but I certainly have a deep passion.

I'm not sure where that comes from in me, but it's I'm super I love culture. I'm super curious. I love hearing my staff speak in their mother tongue. I love embracing those elements to it. Growing up in Tiataty South in the in the seventies and eighties, it was a multicultural society, particularly Pacifica and Mary and Pakia. I'm a kid at the time. I don't think about how that was affecting me, but I certainly have a deep passion.

For okay, right, and that's extended into your family life.

For okay, right, and that's extended into your family life.

Yeah. Yeah. My wife Kylie is to do he so South Taranaki is where she fu Up's too, and she's she's very Mary. So she when I say that we did the ancestry dot Com test, you know, she came out at ninety four percent Mary or something so that so you know, she was pleased that it didn't come out as something other than what.

Yeah. Yeah. My wife Kylie is to do he so South Taranaki is where she fu Up's too, and she's she's very Mary. So she when I say that we did the ancestry dot Com test, you know, she came out at ninety four percent Mary or something so that so you know, she was pleased that it didn't come out as something other than what.

She don't believed my family life.

She don't believed my family life.

Yeah, so so our kids. We talked about that a lot when we first got married, about what does it mean, what is it going to mean to raise children that are Pakia and Marty? How do we talk about that? And so we went down the Jesus model of saying, well, you know, Jesus wasn't part God part man. You know, he was one hundred percent God and one hundred percent man. So our children without making them little Jesus' or Jesus whatever he they are one hundred percent Marty and there are one hundred percent Pakia, and we want to make sure that they're equipped wherever they are in life to be able to pull the elements of their identity out when they need it.

Yeah, so so our kids. We talked about that a lot when we first got married, about what does it mean, what is it going to mean to raise children that are Pakia and Marty? How do we talk about that? And so we went down the Jesus model of saying, well, you know, Jesus wasn't part God part man. You know, he was one hundred percent God and one hundred percent man. So our children without making them little Jesus' or Jesus whatever he they are one hundred percent Marty and there are one hundred percent Pakia, and we want to make sure that they're equipped wherever they are in life to be able to pull the elements of their identity out when they need it.

So that makes less sense than the economic world that you spent twelve years on. When the finances, yes, you've got to have one hundred percent of this and one hundred.

So that makes less sense than the economic world that you spent twelve years on. When the finances, yes, you've got to have one hundred percent of this and one hundred.

Percent of the it's not a good accounting principle.

Percent of the it's not a good accounting principle.

You can work at them to a multicultural concept that you can have those both those identities.

You can work at them to a multicultural concept that you can have those both those identities.

Yeah, yeah, so they have. We want them to be as comfortable on Kylie's MyDD eyes as she is at the Fletcher family Christmas and that's something I think we've I think we've done well at Yeah, but it's it's a it makes for a really colorful family, all.

Yeah, yeah, so they have. We want them to be as comfortable on Kylie's MyDD eyes as she is at the Fletcher family Christmas and that's something I think we've I think we've done well at Yeah, but it's it's a it makes for a really colorful family, all.

Right, Okay, and experiences ago of seeing the world. I mean, you're okay, you've been to South You've seen the world. I grew up there too, everything you know. But yeah, but you had some experiences that sort of opened your eyes probably to a He's a bigger world once you get over that, over the threshold of the country.

Right, Okay, and experiences ago of seeing the world. I mean, you're okay, you've been to South You've seen the world. I grew up there too, everything you know. But yeah, but you had some experiences that sort of opened your eyes probably to a He's a bigger world once you get over that, over the threshold of the country.

Yeah.

Yeah.

We weren't a wealthy family, but we weren't poor, middle class family. Mom's school teacher. There was an interior designer, a curtain maker at the time. But our first overseas trip that I ever did, we went to Central Java, Indonesia on a on a trip with our pastor who had been a missionary there, okay many years.

We weren't a wealthy family, but we weren't poor, middle class family. Mom's school teacher. There was an interior designer, a curtain maker at the time. But our first overseas trip that I ever did, we went to Central Java, Indonesia on a on a trip with our pastor who had been a missionary there, okay many years.

Prior, so I imagine that was.

Prior, so I imagine that was.

I think to the whole family. My dad thought, oh, look, we can afford to go first class on the on the train from Jakarta to Surikata, so we'll do that on the Beama first class on the train. And Nisa wasn't what they thought it might be. The chickens were still there and it was quite an experience.

I think to the whole family. My dad thought, oh, look, we can afford to go first class on the on the train from Jakarta to Surikata, so we'll do that on the Beama first class on the train. And Nisa wasn't what they thought it might be. The chickens were still there and it was quite an experience.

And you mentioned music school that you did before that was on top of your political training and your commerce training, and that you did music school and then you went on a tour of Russia as you do.

And you mentioned music school that you did before that was on top of your political training and your commerce training, and that you did music school and then you went on a tour of Russia as you do.

What yeah that I think, you know one of the questions that often young people ask. We have a lot of young people in our home, and often the questions, I mean, what do you think my calling is? And we asked it used to ask all the time, what do you think my calling? And my purposes in life? And my theory has always been well our past used to say to us, don't worry about your the big picture. Your gifts will make way for you, meaning focus on what you seems to, what you're good at, what are the opportunities are in front of you, and and the doors will open. And this was just one of those. I was at music school and they asked me to come on the tour of Russia. Like, yeah, I'm not doing anything else, Let's get a Russia.

What yeah that I think, you know one of the questions that often young people ask. We have a lot of young people in our home, and often the questions, I mean, what do you think my calling is? And we asked it used to ask all the time, what do you think my calling? And my purposes in life? And my theory has always been well our past used to say to us, don't worry about your the big picture. Your gifts will make way for you, meaning focus on what you seems to, what you're good at, what are the opportunities are in front of you, and and the doors will open. And this was just one of those. I was at music school and they asked me to come on the tour of Russia. Like, yeah, I'm not doing anything else, Let's get a Russia.

That sounds a lot more fun than gushing about Am I doing exactly the right thing? Playground out there is just following your gifts in that so and it's been an exciting ride for you. One thing I can't understand to us very much is that you can draw a sort of perhaps straight lines between your Christian faith and the work that you're doing for World Vision. But you also stood for National as to be an MP back in the day, and I'm just wondering, you know, can you draw as little straight lines between between your faith and that and that as well.

That sounds a lot more fun than gushing about Am I doing exactly the right thing? Playground out there is just following your gifts in that so and it's been an exciting ride for you. One thing I can't understand to us very much is that you can draw a sort of perhaps straight lines between your Christian faith and the work that you're doing for World Vision. But you also stood for National as to be an MP back in the day, and I'm just wondering, you know, can you draw as little straight lines between between your faith and that and that as well.

That's a great question.

That's a great question.

It's asked to the slightly cheeky way, of course, but I mean, yeah, but did you see that has been a sense of call one.

It's asked to the slightly cheeky way, of course, but I mean, yeah, but did you see that has been a sense of call one.

Hundred percent As a kid, I remember from a twelve year old what do you want to be when you grow up, Jonathan? You want to be Prime Minister? That really, that was you know, it was very really and I think there was that There's always been an element of leadership that people have seen on me or expected from me, and that doesn't seem like there's any bigger leadership role than that. So let's go to that route. And so yeah, in twenty and eleven I stood for Parliament for the National Party. I heard an interview with Jim Collins recently. You know Jim Collins, good to great the business books. He's a well known author not well known to you, but well unto.

Hundred percent As a kid, I remember from a twelve year old what do you want to be when you grow up, Jonathan? You want to be Prime Minister? That really, that was you know, it was very really and I think there was that There's always been an element of leadership that people have seen on me or expected from me, and that doesn't seem like there's any bigger leadership role than that. So let's go to that route. And so yeah, in twenty and eleven I stood for Parliament for the National Party. I heard an interview with Jim Collins recently. You know Jim Collins, good to great the business books. He's a well known author not well known to you, but well unto.

Me people he's reading the sort of the puzzled look on my face. But carry on. I believe that the exists.

Me people he's reading the sort of the puzzled look on my face. But carry on. I believe that the exists.

Well, he was being interviewed and somebody said to ask him a question and he said, you know, I'm sixty six, I'm mid career, and then went on and the interview is like, hey, hey, hey, sixty six, mid career. He goes, oh, yeah, I didn't know anything in my forties or my fifties, but now i'm a sexies I really know what I'm about, and I've got somebody to contribute. I'm really looking forward to my seventies, and I found that quite challenging when I was. I was in my thirties, when I stayed for Parliament. I look back now what I believed about the world. Man, I'm glad I didn't get in.

Well, he was being interviewed and somebody said to ask him a question and he said, you know, I'm sixty six, I'm mid career, and then went on and the interview is like, hey, hey, hey, sixty six, mid career. He goes, oh, yeah, I didn't know anything in my forties or my fifties, but now i'm a sexies I really know what I'm about, and I've got somebody to contribute. I'm really looking forward to my seventies, and I found that quite challenging when I was. I was in my thirties, when I stayed for Parliament. I look back now what I believed about the world. Man, I'm glad I didn't get in.

Oh really, I think I had at the time.

Oh really, I think I had at the time.

Well, well, no, I didn't. And it was very it was it was a hard last because we poblicy, we were going to win and it would have changed the cultural dynamic of all the Parliament quite significantly if I had one. But not because of me necessary, but because of who I was standing against and against mister Hopkins. But what I understand about poverty was quite naive I discovered.

Well, well, no, I didn't. And it was very it was it was a hard last because we poblicy, we were going to win and it would have changed the cultural dynamic of all the Parliament quite significantly if I had one. But not because of me necessary, but because of who I was standing against and against mister Hopkins. But what I understand about poverty was quite naive I discovered.

Okay, So actually this gave you an opportunity to plunge into World Vision and to get a all this traveling that's meant to be helping other people to understand the world, your own understanding of the world and the needs, and it must have increased incredibly.

Okay, So actually this gave you an opportunity to plunge into World Vision and to get a all this traveling that's meant to be helping other people to understand the world, your own understanding of the world and the needs, and it must have increased incredibly.

Yeah, it doesn't mean I wouldn't have. I wouldn't if I was standing that I didn would necessarily still not stand for national I probably would. I just would bring a different flavor maybe.

Yeah, it doesn't mean I wouldn't have. I wouldn't if I was standing that I didn would necessarily still not stand for national I probably would. I just would bring a different flavor maybe.

Jonathan. It's been great talking to you. If people want to check out World Vision, they can find it on give us a.

Jonathan. It's been great talking to you. If people want to check out World Vision, they can find it on give us a.

Website well dub dubdu dot world Vision dot org dot NZ and find everything you need there.

Website well dub dubdu dot world Vision dot org dot NZ and find everything you need there.

And we're going out on another piece of music that you've picked, which.

And we're going out on another piece of music that you've picked, which.

Is foreign language by a like a Sean Johnson.

Is foreign language by a like a Sean Johnson.

Okay, something which you get exposed to all the time, although it's more about marriage probably, Jonathan. It's been fantastic talking to you, and I wish you all you and will Vision all the best. I'm John Cown. This is Real life on News Talk SEDB

Okay, something which you get exposed to all the time, although it's more about marriage probably, Jonathan. It's been fantastic talking to you, and I wish you all you and will Vision all the best. I'm John Cown. This is Real life on News Talk SEDB

For more from News Talk, SeeDB Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio

For more from News Talk, SeeDB Listen live on air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio