You're listening to a podcast from News talk EDB. Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Real Conversation, Real Connection, It's Real Life with John Cowan on News talks Ed B.

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JDA gooday, welcome to real life. Everyone knows the Salvation Army, even those without any sort of church or religious background over Sally's and are admiring of the work they do of the poor, the homeless, people of addictions and so on. They are one of the largest housing providers in the country, and their family stores are in every town and you won't have to talk to too many people before you come across someone who's been helped by the Salvation Army at some stage in their life. So it's a great privilege to talk to their new leader, Commissioner Jeanine Donaldson. Welcome, Jeanine, Thank you, it's wonderful to be with you, andratulations on your recent appointment.

JDA gooday, welcome to real life. Everyone knows the Salvation Army, even those without any sort of church or religious background over Sally's and are admiring of the work they do of the poor, the homeless, people of addictions and so on. They are one of the largest housing providers in the country, and their family stores are in every town and you won't have to talk to too many people before you come across someone who's been helped by the Salvation Army at some stage in their life. So it's a great privilege to talk to their new leader, Commissioner Jeanine Donaldson. Welcome, Jeanine, Thank you, it's wonderful to be with you, andratulations on your recent appointment.

Thank you. Yeah, real privilege for me and the first woman. So that's quite something.

Thank you. Yeah, real privilege for me and the first woman. So that's quite something.

Now that surprises me because you know, this is twenty twenty five. I know churches, and then it surprises some people to know that the Salvation Army is actually a church. Are a little bit slower on some things. But the Salvation Army has always had a tradition of being radical. So how come it's taken so long for a woman to get to the number one job in the country any ideas.

Now that surprises me because you know, this is twenty twenty five. I know churches, and then it surprises some people to know that the Salvation Army is actually a church. Are a little bit slower on some things. But the Salvation Army has always had a tradition of being radical. So how come it's taken so long for a woman to get to the number one job in the country any ideas.

I think we've just been a bit slow off the mark, and I think our leadership now is recognizing that.

I think we've just been a bit slow off the mark, and I think our leadership now is recognizing that.

Oh well, congratulations on catching up. Because the interesting thing is I saw a thing written in eighteen ninety five which affirmed the role of women in leadership within the Salvation Army.

Oh well, congratulations on catching up. Because the interesting thing is I saw a thing written in eighteen ninety five which affirmed the role of women in leadership within the Salvation Army.

Yeah, it's always been our theology. We've just been a bit slow reaching out to actually doing it well.

Yeah, it's always been our theology. We've just been a bit slow reaching out to actually doing it well.

The gap between practice and theology for a lot of us is sometimes needs of it catching up. So it's a big role because it's not just New Zealand, is it.

The gap between practice and theology for a lot of us is sometimes needs of it catching up. So it's a big role because it's not just New Zealand, is it.

No, it's not. It's Fiji, Tonga and some are so. Yeah.

No, it's not. It's Fiji, Tonga and some are so. Yeah.

So we're crossing a lot of cultures and are getting into with our Pacific neighbors, which is which is wonderful.

So we're crossing a lot of cultures and are getting into with our Pacific neighbors, which is which is wonderful.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And the other thing which I think would be very very challenging about your role is that you've got on one side all these incredible social work projects that I sort of alluded to it at the start, and yet you're also now a denominational leader, the leader of this church. I don't know how many what do you call them soldiers in your in your in your denomination? About five thousand, I guess, is it or something?

And the other thing which I think would be very very challenging about your role is that you've got on one side all these incredible social work projects that I sort of alluded to it at the start, and yet you're also now a denominational leader, the leader of this church. I don't know how many what do you call them soldiers in your in your in your denomination? About five thousand, I guess, is it or something?

There's quite a few soldiers a little bit less than that. But also we have those that choose to work with us as volunteers, those that give their time to the Salvation Army, you know, regularly.

There's quite a few soldiers a little bit less than that. But also we have those that choose to work with us as volunteers, those that give their time to the Salvation Army, you know, regularly.

So there's a there's a group.

So there's a there's a group.

But I'm I'm a spiritual leader, which is which I just love. I love the fact that that's recognized.

But I'm I'm a spiritual leader, which is which I just love. I love the fact that that's recognized.

So that's my role, so spiritual leader. And also but you're also sitting on all these boards and leadership roles, and this is a that's a broad horse to straddle.

So that's my role, so spiritual leader. And also but you're also sitting on all these boards and leadership roles, and this is a that's a broad horse to straddle.

Yeah, I'm chair of the governance board. And then my other role is spiritual life development.

Yeah, I'm chair of the governance board. And then my other role is spiritual life development.

I guess if that's the water you've been swimming in all your life, I suppose that's, you know, marrying up the spiritual side and this and the social work side. I guess that's that just seems very normal to you.

I guess if that's the water you've been swimming in all your life, I suppose that's, you know, marrying up the spiritual side and this and the social work side. I guess that's that just seems very normal to you.

I guess, yeah, does to me.

I guess, yeah, does to me.

Were you brought up in the army, I was my parents are retired Salvation Army officers.

Were you brought up in the army, I was my parents are retired Salvation Army officers.

So yeah, I was very much brought up into it, but it was very much my own core. I felt really cooled. I can't you know, I don't think when I was.

So yeah, I was very much brought up into it, but it was very much my own core. I felt really cooled. I can't you know, I don't think when I was.

What does that mean? What does that mean?

What does that mean? What does that mean?

I felt just the spirit of the Lord speaking to me now asking me to commit my life to officership.

I felt just the spirit of the Lord speaking to me now asking me to commit my life to officership.

Okay, right now, by the way, we're sort of crossing into your Salvation Army jargon.

Okay, right now, by the way, we're sort of crossing into your Salvation Army jargon.

I mean your.

I mean your.

Regular church members, you call them soldiers, and they don't get baptized.

Regular church members, you call them soldiers, and they don't get baptized.

They get dry cleaned, they.

They get dry cleaned, they.

Get they get drag clean, they get uniformed, and they put on a uniform.

Get they get drag clean, they get uniformed, and they put on a uniform.

Yes they can, Yes, they can choose to put on a uniform. All many now use like what I'm wearing now, where are logoed?

Yes they can, Yes, they can choose to put on a uniform. All many now use like what I'm wearing now, where are logoed?

Okay, yeah, it's also very popular.

Okay, yeah, it's also very popular.

And then your ministers become.

And then your ministers become.

Officers.

Officers.

Yes, well, you have a particular call to the ministry of officership, so to become a full time minister, which means that you have the great privilege of not having to actually work full time.

Yes, well, you have a particular call to the ministry of officership, so to become a full time minister, which means that you have the great privilege of not having to actually work full time.

But this is your work. Your work is the Lord full.

But this is your work. Your work is the Lord full.

Time and you're appointable so you can be a point to anywhere in the country or maybe into our into our Pacific neighbors, or equally.

Time and you're appointable so you can be a point to anywhere in the country or maybe into our into our Pacific neighbors, or equally.

You can be appointed around the world.

You can be appointed around the world.

Okay, Now this is something which is again probably a little bit mysterious to people that aren't Salvationists, this idea that when you hear this call that you talked about, you then come under the discipline of the church and you get marching orders. And I've talked to people that have grown up in Salvation Army families and they talked about a particular date when their marching orders would come out, and the tension in the home coming up to that time. Are we going to be staying here or are we going to be sent sent off to the Fiji to right at old folks home or are we going to be sent in the cargol to do some other work.

Okay, Now this is something which is again probably a little bit mysterious to people that aren't Salvationists, this idea that when you hear this call that you talked about, you then come under the discipline of the church and you get marching orders. And I've talked to people that have grown up in Salvation Army families and they talked about a particular date when their marching orders would come out, and the tension in the home coming up to that time. Are we going to be staying here or are we going to be sent sent off to the Fiji to right at old folks home or are we going to be sent in the cargol to do some other work.

That was the world you.

That was the world you.

Grew up in, It is the world I grew up in.

Grew up in, It is the world I grew up in.

Yes, I think we're a little bit a little bit more flex will Now we definitely consider before we ask people to move, We consider family stages and ages, and they themselves have an opportunity before that to write whether you know they actually do want to move or for reasons that they really may want to stay somewhere, So it's it's it's a little bit more fair in that way, right, But it.

Yes, I think we're a little bit a little bit more flex will Now we definitely consider before we ask people to move, We consider family stages and ages, and they themselves have an opportunity before that to write whether you know they actually do want to move or for reasons that they really may want to stay somewhere, So it's it's it's a little bit more fair in that way, right, But it.

Is just interesting that that's part of your call that you agree to be taking these orders. And were you somewhat restricted also in who you could marry.

Is just interesting that that's part of your call that you agree to be taking these orders. And were you somewhat restricted also in who you could marry.

Well, you were because we could at the start only marry offices. But now we have a policy for single spouse, so it is you can you can marry someone else.

Well, you were because we could at the start only marry offices. But now we have a policy for single spouse, so it is you can you can marry someone else.

Oh okay, I didn't know that change.

Oh okay, I didn't know that change.

That has also changed.

That has also changed.

It's not in every where the Salvation Army isn't everywhere around the world. Each territory, you know, chooses whether that policy will suit.

It's not in every where the Salvation Army isn't everywhere around the world. Each territory, you know, chooses whether that policy will suit.

Them or not.

Them or not.

So you went into this becoming an officer with your eyes open. You'd see your parents do it, and you thought, yes, I can live with that.

So you went into this becoming an officer with your eyes open. You'd see your parents do it, and you thought, yes, I can live with that.

Yes, I was born with roller skates on I call it.

Yes, I was born with roller skates on I call it.

And I got to ask, did you play in a brass band?

And I got to ask, did you play in a brass band?

No?

No?

No, no, I've never played, and funnily enough, I love it, but no, no, it never appealed.

No, no, I've never played, and funnily enough, I love it, but no, no, it never appealed.

It never appealed. Okay, but you married a man with a euphodium I did, yeah, and yes, okay, So there's still part of Salvation Army life, is it?

It never appealed. Okay, but you married a man with a euphodium I did, yeah, and yes, okay, So there's still part of Salvation Army life, is it?

The brass band thing.

The brass band thing.

But it is, you know, it's not as popular, but when you go around the world and I've had the privilege of that, people just really love it. You know, in the UK Christmas time, it's not Christmas until you've had the band who doesn't love it?

But it is, you know, it's not as popular, but when you go around the world and I've had the privilege of that, people just really love it. You know, in the UK Christmas time, it's not Christmas until you've had the band who doesn't love it?

But but this is one of the things that you know, because you're a spokesperson for the Salvation Army, I hope you don't mind me putting these questions. I mean, William Booth when he founded the Salvation Art.

But but this is one of the things that you know, because you're a spokesperson for the Salvation Army, I hope you don't mind me putting these questions. I mean, William Booth when he founded the Salvation Art.

He was a radical.

He was a radical.

You know, he came out of the Methodist Church and he used this radical music and uniforms and this idea of discipline and things has that has that radicalism survived in the DNA of the Salvation Army Church. Are you still do you still consider yourself God's commandos?

You know, he came out of the Methodist Church and he used this radical music and uniforms and this idea of discipline and things has that has that radicalism survived in the DNA of the Salvation Army Church. Are you still do you still consider yourself God's commandos?

I think that's an excellent question. I think we're radical in some ways.

I think that's an excellent question. I think we're radical in some ways.

I think.

I think.

In decades past we got a bit kind of middle of the road, and I think we've really had to grapple with that what are the issues facing the world, And that's always been what we've been about. William Booth himself, he saw people on the street, he saw those that needed to be fair. He saw those that were sleeping rough and said, what can we do about that? And while we do that, while we feed people, while we listen, while we find them a place to live, we speak about Jesus. And I think, you know, it did become We've always tried to.

In decades past we got a bit kind of middle of the road, and I think we've really had to grapple with that what are the issues facing the world, And that's always been what we've been about. William Booth himself, he saw people on the street, he saw those that needed to be fair. He saw those that were sleeping rough and said, what can we do about that? And while we do that, while we feed people, while we listen, while we find them a place to live, we speak about Jesus. And I think, you know, it did become We've always tried to.

Do that, but I do think that.

Do that, but I do think that.

We've grappled with that a little bit more in recent times. You know, what, actually, where are we best to be, Where are we best to apply ourselves, what other needs of the countries we're in, And that varies.

We've grappled with that a little bit more in recent times. You know, what, actually, where are we best to be, Where are we best to apply ourselves, what other needs of the countries we're in, And that varies.

Right, So I guess that's a challenge for any organization that is growing up and that it's maturing. But some of the people may say, ah, yes, the old ways are best. But if we wanted to keep that radical creative edge, I suppose that's always going to be a challenge.

Right, So I guess that's a challenge for any organization that is growing up and that it's maturing. But some of the people may say, ah, yes, the old ways are best. But if we wanted to keep that radical creative edge, I suppose that's always going to be a challenge.

Correct it is, And I just love it because we're about the whole person holistically. You know, we're all made up of many parts and we want to minister a break to the whole person.

Correct it is, And I just love it because we're about the whole person holistically. You know, we're all made up of many parts and we want to minister a break to the whole person.

And I love that about the Salvation Army.

And I love that about the Salvation Army.

If you've just joined us, I'm talking to the new leader of the Salvation Army in New Zealand, Commissioner Janine Donaldson, and after the break, I want to talk about how she's stains the DNABLE organization. Also how she sustains herself in this role that she's in. This is real life. I'm John Cown and you're listening to News Talk z.

If you've just joined us, I'm talking to the new leader of the Salvation Army in New Zealand, Commissioner Janine Donaldson, and after the break, I want to talk about how she's stains the DNABLE organization. Also how she sustains herself in this role that she's in. This is real life. I'm John Cown and you're listening to News Talk z.

B intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news Talks.

B intelligent interviews with interesting people. It's real life on news Talks.

It be I should have made I don't know, just conte a bauble? You you would you rather hurt me with that grumble?

It be I should have made I don't know, just conte a bauble? You you would you rather hurt me with that grumble?

She love you.

She love you.

Welcome back to real life.

Welcome back to real life.

I'm John Cown and I'm talking with Commissioner Janine Donaldson, who's a new Territorial Commander of Is that the right term, Janine? It is Territorial Commander of New Zealand and Pacific and or some parts of the Pacific, leading both the spiritual and social work science of a Salvation Army. So it's great to have you on board. We're listening to I Will Survive. Why did you pick that?

I'm John Cown and I'm talking with Commissioner Janine Donaldson, who's a new Territorial Commander of Is that the right term, Janine? It is Territorial Commander of New Zealand and Pacific and or some parts of the Pacific, leading both the spiritual and social work science of a Salvation Army. So it's great to have you on board. We're listening to I Will Survive. Why did you pick that?

I just love it? I love it and there's the essence with I can identify it.

I just love it? I love it and there's the essence with I can identify it.

You are a survivor. Have there been times when you've been wrung out in the work that you're doing where you feel like you always wouldn't survive.

You are a survivor. Have there been times when you've been wrung out in the work that you're doing where you feel like you always wouldn't survive.

Yes, I think there's been part of.

Yes, I think there's been part of.

Appointments that you've been so confronted with tragedy and desperation that you've actually wondered. And that's it's faith that's got me through that. Okay, Yeah, God.

Appointments that you've been so confronted with tragedy and desperation that you've actually wondered. And that's it's faith that's got me through that. Okay, Yeah, God.

Is with me right, because not all your works and I know it is desperate needs in New Zealand, but you have also been overseas for for your Salvation Army work.

Is with me right, because not all your works and I know it is desperate needs in New Zealand, but you have also been overseas for for your Salvation Army work.

Correct, We've worked twelve years in Africa, about two and a half in the UK and five and a half in Australia, and then we also last you did a couple of months in Zimbabwe between leadership. Between leaders there, we were asked if we were just going and fill in so to speak.

Correct, We've worked twelve years in Africa, about two and a half in the UK and five and a half in Australia, and then we also last you did a couple of months in Zimbabwe between leadership. Between leaders there, we were asked if we were just going and fill in so to speak.

Okay, now in the role that you have in more recent years, you've been in leadership role, But does that also get you involved with people in the who are in need? I mean, does it distance you too much from the coal face as it were?

Okay, now in the role that you have in more recent years, you've been in leadership role, But does that also get you involved with people in the who are in need? I mean, does it distance you too much from the coal face as it were?

I suppose in some ways yes and in some ways no, because I've just we just love to get out and to meet people into greet and to see what we're actually doing. And I think that's really important that we are actually at that coal face level that we actually hear about needs because in these positions it is very easy to become isolated. So for me personally, I like nothing better than to be with people and to go where all our different ministries are and to listen.

I suppose in some ways yes and in some ways no, because I've just we just love to get out and to meet people into greet and to see what we're actually doing. And I think that's really important that we are actually at that coal face level that we actually hear about needs because in these positions it is very easy to become isolated. So for me personally, I like nothing better than to be with people and to go where all our different ministries are and to listen.

And to learn.

And to learn.

Right, I know, if a Salvation Army has been involved in all sorts of different types of community work and mission work, has there been any particular type of work the Army has done that has particularly resonated with you. Have you been especially involved in, say housing, or work with addictions or anything like that. Is there anything in particular that you've been involved with.

Right, I know, if a Salvation Army has been involved in all sorts of different types of community work and mission work, has there been any particular type of work the Army has done that has particularly resonated with you. Have you been especially involved in, say housing, or work with addictions or anything like that. Is there anything in particular that you've been involved with.

I think in Africa we're very much involved with education, schools and hospitals, and so that for me has been very very powerful experiences in my life.

I think in Africa we're very much involved with education, schools and hospitals, and so that for me has been very very powerful experiences in my life.

Right, Okay, I can imagine someone being drawn into officership in the Salvation Army like who were with a vision of helping people, but you've been thrust now into administration. You're administering some of the biggest housing projects in the country. You have helped involved in a string of family stores that are probably on every street, corner, every street in towns and New Zealand. These are big jobs. Did you feel like, did.

Right, Okay, I can imagine someone being drawn into officership in the Salvation Army like who were with a vision of helping people, but you've been thrust now into administration. You're administering some of the biggest housing projects in the country. You have helped involved in a string of family stores that are probably on every street, corner, every street in towns and New Zealand. These are big jobs. Did you feel like, did.

You cope with that?

You cope with that?

I mean, if you had to learn on the job, do you get training and things like that?

I mean, if you had to learn on the job, do you get training and things like that?

But at both there's training, there's lots of learning. And I have the most fabulous.

But at both there's training, there's lots of learning. And I have the most fabulous.

Team of people.

Team of people.

Yeah, and so many of that team they are the ones on the ground helping and helping, understanding and moving things forward. So in that way, I'm very fortunate have a great team.

Yeah, and so many of that team they are the ones on the ground helping and helping, understanding and moving things forward. So in that way, I'm very fortunate have a great team.

I know a lot of your work comes out of the local core, out of a local churches, and I don't know how many there are around in the country, and I probably more than a hundred.

I know a lot of your work comes out of the local core, out of a local churches, and I don't know how many there are around in the country, and I probably more than a hundred.

Just a bit less than that.

Just a bit less than that.

Okay, Well, so a lot of the work comes out of that. But you also mentioned the people that are volunteers and people that you employ specialists and people in different roles, and a lot of them aren't part of your church. A lot of them aren't Salvationists. And I'm just wondering how you maintain mission focus when a lot of the people aren't working, aren't in part of your church. How do you maintain the DNA of the Salvation Army when the work that you're doing has been delivered by people but aren't part of your church.

Okay, Well, so a lot of the work comes out of that. But you also mentioned the people that are volunteers and people that you employ specialists and people in different roles, and a lot of them aren't part of your church. A lot of them aren't Salvationists. And I'm just wondering how you maintain mission focus when a lot of the people aren't working, aren't in part of your church. How do you maintain the DNA of the Salvation Army when the work that you're doing has been delivered by people but aren't part of your church.

Well, the people that are part of us.

Well, the people that are part of us.

I think appreciate the values of the Salvation Army and that's why they want to work for us. And I love that. I love the fact that they want to work for us because they love our values. They love what we stand for and the work that we do.

I think appreciate the values of the Salvation Army and that's why they want to work for us. And I love that. I love the fact that they want to work for us because they love our values. They love what we stand for and the work that we do.

Okay, do you have people placed strategically within the organization to make sure What I'm trying to say is do you actually monitor that DNA? Do you actually say, hey, this has to come back into our inter line of our Salvation Army values.

Okay, do you have people placed strategically within the organization to make sure What I'm trying to say is do you actually monitor that DNA? Do you actually say, hey, this has to come back into our inter line of our Salvation Army values.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think all that we do has to fit in into our values. Whatever we are doing, we would look at placing our values over it us fit can we do it?

I think all that we do has to fit in into our values. Whatever we are doing, we would look at placing our values over it us fit can we do it?

Okay? So actually that's an active part of what you do.

Okay? So actually that's an active part of what you do.

Yes, it is right.

Yes, it is right.

One of the things that I'm sure you didn't sign up for was having to tackle politicians. And now you're a denominational leader and one that almost deliberately prods the politicians with your annual State of a Nation address, which I'm sure the politicians just just sort of it gets up there, knows, I'm sure, because often it's pointing out the failings and failures of policies. Is that something that you're comfortable with that you are as someone who has to prod the politicians, I mean.

One of the things that I'm sure you didn't sign up for was having to tackle politicians. And now you're a denominational leader and one that almost deliberately prods the politicians with your annual State of a Nation address, which I'm sure the politicians just just sort of it gets up there, knows, I'm sure, because often it's pointing out the failings and failures of policies. Is that something that you're comfortable with that you are as someone who has to prod the politicians, I mean.

They have the job to do too, which I value and appreciate.

They have the job to do too, which I value and appreciate.

Our job is to take the data and analysis and be truthful about what we find and for the state of the nation, that's what we do.

Our job is to take the data and analysis and be truthful about what we find and for the state of the nation, that's what we do.

We are just we are.

We are just we are.

Presenting data and analysis and it should be for us all as a nation to say, what are we doing right? What do we obviously have to improve on? And I think we all have a part to plan that. For sure, are politicians ones that are making policies or changing things or developing things, But for all of us, I think we have an obligation to say, what's our part in this?

Presenting data and analysis and it should be for us all as a nation to say, what are we doing right? What do we obviously have to improve on? And I think we all have a part to plan that. For sure, are politicians ones that are making policies or changing things or developing things, But for all of us, I think we have an obligation to say, what's our part in this?

How can we make this better?

How can we make this better?

Yeah, your report does go sometimes a little bit beyond that. They'll say, you know, there are this number of people here who are requiring support, and yet you're reducing the amount of investment that the government is doing.

Yeah, your report does go sometimes a little bit beyond that. They'll say, you know, there are this number of people here who are requiring support, and yet you're reducing the amount of investment that the government is doing.

So that's all included.

So that's all included.

It's a.

It's a.

But we're people of hope as well.

But we're people of hope as well.

You know.

You know.

It's easy to say, and it has been like this the last couple of years where it seems grim and it actually is. But we're people of hope, and I think I love that about the people of this nation having worked away from it, and I'm a proud key.

It's easy to say, and it has been like this the last couple of years where it seems grim and it actually is. But we're people of hope, and I think I love that about the people of this nation having worked away from it, and I'm a proud key.

We We're generous people in this country, were actually.

We We're generous people in this country, were actually.

Kind to people, and I really believe we want to make a difference, and I believe that for the politicians as well.

Kind to people, and I really believe we want to make a difference, and I believe that for the politicians as well.

You are such a stately person.

You are such a stately person.

You are coming back to New Zealand after many many years away, and what's your feelings about re engaging in New Zealand.

You are coming back to New Zealand after many many years away, and what's your feelings about re engaging in New Zealand.

I've just been up at why Tonguey.

I've just been up at why Tonguey.

That was an incredible experience for me of hospitality and warmth and generosity. I just think we have an amazing country and having worked and served in many different countries around the world under some quite difficult circumstances, what we have in this country, we have so much to be thankful for. And I'm really grateful that I'm been born here and now I have this privilege of working alongside many others leading the Salvation Army in this territory and Fiji tongu in.

That was an incredible experience for me of hospitality and warmth and generosity. I just think we have an amazing country and having worked and served in many different countries around the world under some quite difficult circumstances, what we have in this country, we have so much to be thankful for. And I'm really grateful that I'm been born here and now I have this privilege of working alongside many others leading the Salvation Army in this territory and Fiji tongu in.

Sa are one of the things I sometimes wonder about people and leadership like yourself, especially leaderships of a church which has meant to sort of nurture you where do you get inerture? Where do you get your friendships? If you're if you walk into this environment which should be something which is providing you for friendship and love and everything like that, and you're the boss. Does that feel lonely sometimes and especially when you're moving around the world.

Sa are one of the things I sometimes wonder about people and leadership like yourself, especially leaderships of a church which has meant to sort of nurture you where do you get inerture? Where do you get your friendships? If you're if you walk into this environment which should be something which is providing you for friendship and love and everything like that, and you're the boss. Does that feel lonely sometimes and especially when you're moving around the world.

Yes, it can be.

Yes, it can be.

And sometimes you know, when you're sitting down, no one wants to join you at the table.

And sometimes you know, when you're sitting down, no one wants to join you at the table.

You know that must be sopeful.

You know that must be sopeful.

You've got to be intentional.

You've got to be intentional.

I've got lovely some lovely friends around the world, and I just appreciate them. You've got to be intentional about keeping in touch and actually taking also taking time out.

I've got lovely some lovely friends around the world, and I just appreciate them. You've got to be intentional about keeping in touch and actually taking also taking time out.

I love to walk, I love to read, and I like to have fun.

I love to walk, I love to read, and I like to have fun.

So what do you do for fun? What recharges your batteries?

So what do you do for fun? What recharges your batteries?

Well?

Well?

I had a birthday last year and very kindly, my family gave me my first lesson flying lesson.

I had a birthday last year and very kindly, my family gave me my first lesson flying lesson.

I also like to drive fast cars, but obviously not.

I also like to drive fast cars, but obviously not.

Actually where I am, just now where there's always a lot of police and speed cameras.

Actually where I am, just now where there's always a lot of police and speed cameras.

Not a good looks.

Not a good looks.

I could just sort of hear a lot of preconceptions clinging to the ground around the country. He's a Salvation Army leader that likes to drive fast and is.

I could just sort of hear a lot of preconceptions clinging to the ground around the country. He's a Salvation Army leader that likes to drive fast and is.

Well, why not? Why not?

Well, why not? Why not?

Perhaps this is part of the radicalism we're talking about before. And your husband he's involved in the Salvation Army as well.

Perhaps this is part of the radicalism we're talking about before. And your husband he's involved in the Salvation Army as well.

He is okay and does this. Does this role put you make you his boss?

He is okay and does this. Does this role put you make you his boss?

He has he has an appointment of his own. We have worked together for many years, but he has an appointment.

He has he has an appointment of his own. We have worked together for many years, but he has an appointment.

Of his own.

Of his own.

So and he works actually for the UK. So no, it doesn't really make me his boss. But he's incredibly supportive and does a lot for me now of the tasks that Patsy used to do, he's taken up very willingly.

So and he works actually for the UK. So no, it doesn't really make me his boss. But he's incredibly supportive and does a lot for me now of the tasks that Patsy used to do, he's taken up very willingly.

And you're you're a parent and grandmother.

And you're you're a parent and grandmother.

I believe it correct.

I believe it correct.

Three adults sons and two absolutely unbiasedly speaking of course grandchildren who are in Australia right now.

Three adults sons and two absolutely unbiasedly speaking of course grandchildren who are in Australia right now.

You grew up in a Salvationist family. Are there things that as you've been doing your parenting and you're thinking, yeah, I valued this, but I would like my children to be protected from this aspect of it, or I'd like them to actually see the better side of Salvation Army life in this way on myspact, putting that very clearly, were you conscious of the fact that you're in leadership within a church. This is going to be impacting my.

You grew up in a Salvationist family. Are there things that as you've been doing your parenting and you're thinking, yeah, I valued this, but I would like my children to be protected from this aspect of it, or I'd like them to actually see the better side of Salvation Army life in this way on myspact, putting that very clearly, were you conscious of the fact that you're in leadership within a church. This is going to be impacting my.

Kids, oh, most definitely, and it's impacted them in a really positive way. I think they were with us six years in Zambia, but that was an incredible When you get them together, they just talk about that. Even though they're well adults now, they just talk about those experiences. And there is negative impacts because unfortunately, even the church, you know, we have people that aren't happy with this and unhappy with that. I think it's our attitude that should set us apart, you know, even when we're unhappy, it's how we deal with that as Christians. It's what that's what the world sees and I long for that to be better.

Kids, oh, most definitely, and it's impacted them in a really positive way. I think they were with us six years in Zambia, but that was an incredible When you get them together, they just talk about that. Even though they're well adults now, they just talk about those experiences. And there is negative impacts because unfortunately, even the church, you know, we have people that aren't happy with this and unhappy with that. I think it's our attitude that should set us apart, you know, even when we're unhappy, it's how we deal with that as Christians. It's what that's what the world sees and I long for that to be better.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Unfortunately, in leadership and roles like you're and you sometimes become the focus of people's dissatisfaction. That's the satisfaction of God. I can't blame. I can't argue with God, but I'll argue with that person. But it's been great talking with you, Janine. I wish you and the Salvation Army every success and the wonderful work that you're doing around the country.

Unfortunately, in leadership and roles like you're and you sometimes become the focus of people's dissatisfaction. That's the satisfaction of God. I can't blame. I can't argue with God, but I'll argue with that person. But it's been great talking with you, Janine. I wish you and the Salvation Army every success and the wonderful work that you're doing around the country.

Thank you very much for all your time.

Thank you very much for all your time.

Appreciate it and thank you for being part of real life, and we'll go out on another piece of music that you've picked for us, which was a bit of a surprise. I don't know if anyone's ever picked us bit of music before, Jeanine.

Appreciate it and thank you for being part of real life, and we'll go out on another piece of music that you've picked for us, which was a bit of a surprise. I don't know if anyone's ever picked us bit of music before, Jeanine.

Why have you picked the national Anthem?

Why have you picked the national Anthem?

I love the national anthem because we sing in the tongue of our country.

I love the national anthem because we sing in the tongue of our country.

And then I love the words of it. I just think and.

And then I love the words of it. I just think and.

As you go through, we never sing all the verses, but they're just so powerful to me.

As you go through, we never sing all the verses, but they're just so powerful to me.

It's a beautiful country and that anthem reflects it.

It's a beautiful country and that anthem reflects it.

Yd Crazy

Yd Crazy

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For more from News Talks at b Listen live on air or online, and keep out sh with you wherever you go without podcasts on iHeartRadio