From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Salinger Morris. It's Monday, March 17th. In July last year, an investigation from journalist Nick McKenzie revealed that underworld figures and bikies had infiltrated one of the country's most powerful unions and major building projects in Victoria and New South Wales. The investigation led to an immediate response, with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese saying his government wanted to make sure that we stamp out corruption within the CFMEU, and Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan declared that the rotten culture within the union was one that must be pulled out by its roots. Now Nick McKenzie, through a new joint investigation by The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and 60 minutes, has revealed what's come of those declarations and why the rot and wrongdoing hasn't stopped. So, Nick, can you just briefly remind us what sort of problems you discovered within the CFMEU during your first investigation and what people like Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan and other powerful figures told you that they had planned to do about it?

From the newsrooms of the Sydney Morning Herald and The Age. This is the morning edition. I'm Samantha Salinger Morris. It's Monday, March 17th. In July last year, an investigation from journalist Nick McKenzie revealed that underworld figures and bikies had infiltrated one of the country's most powerful unions and major building projects in Victoria and New South Wales. The investigation led to an immediate response, with Prime Minister Anthony Albanese saying his government wanted to make sure that we stamp out corruption within the CFMEU, and Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan declared that the rotten culture within the union was one that must be pulled out by its roots. Now Nick McKenzie, through a new joint investigation by The Age, The Sydney Morning Herald and 60 minutes, has revealed what's come of those declarations and why the rot and wrongdoing hasn't stopped. So, Nick, can you just briefly remind us what sort of problems you discovered within the CFMEU during your first investigation and what people like Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan and other powerful figures told you that they had planned to do about it?

Well, back in the middle of last year, we uncovered the blatant criminal infiltration of the Union and of building sites the union controlled, and that criminal infiltration and the corruption problems that come with it also infected building companies. There was a significant uproar. Some of the projects involved a taxpayer funded projects, especially Victoria's big build. The federal government intervened. The Albanese government spoke up. The Victorian premier and other premiers spoke up and ultimately the union, the CFMEU was plunged or placed into administration. Its leaders were sacked around the country, new leaders were installed and the union today operates under the carriage of an administrator, Mark Irving KC, a senior barrister. But while that might sound like a huge amount of sweeping reform, and I must also say laws were promised and things referred to investigative agencies, at the heart of the scandal today is the revelation that the wrongdoing is still going on. There is still organised crime operating with relative impunity and the administration, while doing its best, is struggling to combat it.

Well, back in the middle of last year, we uncovered the blatant criminal infiltration of the Union and of building sites the union controlled, and that criminal infiltration and the corruption problems that come with it also infected building companies. There was a significant uproar. Some of the projects involved a taxpayer funded projects, especially Victoria's big build. The federal government intervened. The Albanese government spoke up. The Victorian premier and other premiers spoke up and ultimately the union, the CFMEU was plunged or placed into administration. Its leaders were sacked around the country, new leaders were installed and the union today operates under the carriage of an administrator, Mark Irving KC, a senior barrister. But while that might sound like a huge amount of sweeping reform, and I must also say laws were promised and things referred to investigative agencies, at the heart of the scandal today is the revelation that the wrongdoing is still going on. There is still organised crime operating with relative impunity and the administration, while doing its best, is struggling to combat it.

And at the heart of it is you've discovered that Mick Gatto has had something of a central role within the CFMEU. So first off, can you just tell us who is Mick Gatto and how did you actually make this discovery? Because he is very secretive about his work, right?

And at the heart of it is you've discovered that Mick Gatto has had something of a central role within the CFMEU. So first off, can you just tell us who is Mick Gatto and how did you actually make this discovery? Because he is very secretive about his work, right?

Well, Mick Gatto is one of Australia's most notorious gangland figures. He came to huge public prominence during Victoria's gangland wars. He's one of the only survivors of those wars and very famously or infamously shot dead a hitman and then was cleared of murder on the basis of self-defence. And that's back in 2005. As well as being a fixture in the gangland Mighetto has made a business representing building companies seeking to cut deals with the CFMEU. He's done this over many years. That's not new, but what is new and very interesting and extremely damning is that despite all these changes promised by state and federal governments, Mick Gatto and people like him are still going very strong in the construction sector today. And what we've discovered, and what we are revealing, is that a series of suspect payments have been flowing through front companies. This money is allegedly ending up with Mick Gatto. Today there are payments that have been made very recently and months after the supposed clean up of the construction sector had begun. And the fact that this is going on raises real questions about whether the changes state and federal governments have endorsed across the construction sector are actually working.

Well, Mick Gatto is one of Australia's most notorious gangland figures. He came to huge public prominence during Victoria's gangland wars. He's one of the only survivors of those wars and very famously or infamously shot dead a hitman and then was cleared of murder on the basis of self-defence. And that's back in 2005. As well as being a fixture in the gangland Mighetto has made a business representing building companies seeking to cut deals with the CFMEU. He's done this over many years. That's not new, but what is new and very interesting and extremely damning is that despite all these changes promised by state and federal governments, Mick Gatto and people like him are still going very strong in the construction sector today. And what we've discovered, and what we are revealing, is that a series of suspect payments have been flowing through front companies. This money is allegedly ending up with Mick Gatto. Today there are payments that have been made very recently and months after the supposed clean up of the construction sector had begun. And the fact that this is going on raises real questions about whether the changes state and federal governments have endorsed across the construction sector are actually working.

And so tell us, I guess, what sort of evidence has been uncovered that Mick Gatto is actually doing?

And so tell us, I guess, what sort of evidence has been uncovered that Mick Gatto is actually doing?

Well, we found a couple of very powerful, I guess patches or strands of evidence. We've uncovered banking records which show payments through front companies associated with deals that Mick Gatto has been pushing in the building industry. His name is not on those invoices. There are other company names on those invoices, but the evidence suggests they trace back to Mick Gatto and his gangland associates. And then we've interviewed the chief investigator from the CFMEU. Administrator. The chief investigator. His name is Geoffrey Watson SC he's an esteemed barrister. He's been conducting his own investigation into payments to Gatto linked entities and other payments involving gangland figures. And his articulation or explanation of what's been going on confirms that these payments are being made. Therefore, solving business disputes, union disputes on construction sites around the country. Most significantly, some of those paying Gatto are subcontractors of the Victorian government's Big Build project. These are a large companies making many millions of dollars from the taxpayer, providing services, building the Victorian public, its road and rail mega-projects through the Big Build. These same companies on the taxpayer payroll are paying people like Mick Gatto to protect their industrial interests, to help them negotiate a deal with the CFMEU and the CFMEU. Related figures. Other building companies. So right now in the state of Victoria, there are what looks like legitimate companies getting hired by state government projects, paying people with notorious gangland reputations to operate in the industry. That's the state of business today in Victoria.

Well, we found a couple of very powerful, I guess patches or strands of evidence. We've uncovered banking records which show payments through front companies associated with deals that Mick Gatto has been pushing in the building industry. His name is not on those invoices. There are other company names on those invoices, but the evidence suggests they trace back to Mick Gatto and his gangland associates. And then we've interviewed the chief investigator from the CFMEU. Administrator. The chief investigator. His name is Geoffrey Watson SC he's an esteemed barrister. He's been conducting his own investigation into payments to Gatto linked entities and other payments involving gangland figures. And his articulation or explanation of what's been going on confirms that these payments are being made. Therefore, solving business disputes, union disputes on construction sites around the country. Most significantly, some of those paying Gatto are subcontractors of the Victorian government's Big Build project. These are a large companies making many millions of dollars from the taxpayer, providing services, building the Victorian public, its road and rail mega-projects through the Big Build. These same companies on the taxpayer payroll are paying people like Mick Gatto to protect their industrial interests, to help them negotiate a deal with the CFMEU and the CFMEU. Related figures. Other building companies. So right now in the state of Victoria, there are what looks like legitimate companies getting hired by state government projects, paying people with notorious gangland reputations to operate in the industry. That's the state of business today in Victoria.

And so tell us what Geoffrey Watson has told you about how large, I guess the scope is of this alleged corruption within the CFMEU, because he is no stranger to fighting corruption.

And so tell us what Geoffrey Watson has told you about how large, I guess the scope is of this alleged corruption within the CFMEU, because he is no stranger to fighting corruption.

Well, he said, the extent of corruption that has infected building sites, notably the Victorian government's big build building sites due to union malfeasance and the involvement of gangland figures in bikies is systemic. It's stunning, it's shocking. And the administration and its investigations led by him, are just starting to come to terms with the true scale of it. Now, ultimately, the administration and Watson are just two relatively non powerful players combating a very powerful force. And that is the force of of organized crime that operates at the bottom or underscores a lot of this this conduct. Watson saying it's a real problem. The administration is doing its best, but the rest of society needs to step up. And ultimately it's an issue that flows to the governments which are funding these sites. Taxpayer money is ultimately, perhaps indirectly, but ultimately landing in the pockets of gangland figures. And that shouldn't be happening.

Well, he said, the extent of corruption that has infected building sites, notably the Victorian government's big build building sites due to union malfeasance and the involvement of gangland figures in bikies is systemic. It's stunning, it's shocking. And the administration and its investigations led by him, are just starting to come to terms with the true scale of it. Now, ultimately, the administration and Watson are just two relatively non powerful players combating a very powerful force. And that is the force of of organized crime that operates at the bottom or underscores a lot of this this conduct. Watson saying it's a real problem. The administration is doing its best, but the rest of society needs to step up. And ultimately it's an issue that flows to the governments which are funding these sites. Taxpayer money is ultimately, perhaps indirectly, but ultimately landing in the pockets of gangland figures. And that shouldn't be happening.

And is it accurate to say that Geoffrey Watson, who, you know, like I said, he has investigated serious corruption before, that he's horrified by what he's seen because I believe he told you. Regards to you know, what he's been seeing has been happening in the CFMEU. It's much worse, far more intense and more serious than anything I've seen before. That's what he told you, right?

And is it accurate to say that Geoffrey Watson, who, you know, like I said, he has investigated serious corruption before, that he's horrified by what he's seen because I believe he told you. Regards to you know, what he's been seeing has been happening in the CFMEU. It's much worse, far more intense and more serious than anything I've seen before. That's what he told you, right?

He's making a comparison to the corruption he's investigated previously for commissions of inquiry or public anti-corruption bodies such as the New South Wales ICAC. This is a anti-corruption investigator. This is Watson who has whose work has led to serious charges being laid against both coalition and Labor Party politicians and political figures. He's seen some pretty ugly stuff, but he says the corruption in the construction sector, the corruption that infected the CFMEU, the corruption and criminality that's infected some building companies is much worse than that political corruption he's previously seen. He says it's much worse because of the serious, violent gangland nature of some of the players involved and the relative impunity with which they operate. Ultimately, he asks the question, do we want to live in a country where gangland figures can easily profit from tax, government funded projects in a way that really provides for a system where the law is not followed, the law can be broken. The rules are norms which should govern government projects, and taxpayer funded projects that are paid for by our listeners aren't being followed, and those who are filling their pockets are ultimately the baddies in our society, the underworld figures and gangland figures who have no regard for the law.

He's making a comparison to the corruption he's investigated previously for commissions of inquiry or public anti-corruption bodies such as the New South Wales ICAC. This is a anti-corruption investigator. This is Watson who has whose work has led to serious charges being laid against both coalition and Labor Party politicians and political figures. He's seen some pretty ugly stuff, but he says the corruption in the construction sector, the corruption that infected the CFMEU, the corruption and criminality that's infected some building companies is much worse than that political corruption he's previously seen. He says it's much worse because of the serious, violent gangland nature of some of the players involved and the relative impunity with which they operate. Ultimately, he asks the question, do we want to live in a country where gangland figures can easily profit from tax, government funded projects in a way that really provides for a system where the law is not followed, the law can be broken. The rules are norms which should govern government projects, and taxpayer funded projects that are paid for by our listeners aren't being followed, and those who are filling their pockets are ultimately the baddies in our society, the underworld figures and gangland figures who have no regard for the law.

And you mentioned violence just there. So can you just tell us, I guess briefly, how bad it is? Because I know your investigation has uncovered some seriously worrying scenes of bikies or bikies, associates, you know, beating people up, in particular women. I think there was one woman that you've got tape of who's been beaten up on a lunchtime break, I think, from someone who was working on one of these projects. So tell us about that.

And you mentioned violence just there. So can you just tell us, I guess briefly, how bad it is? Because I know your investigation has uncovered some seriously worrying scenes of bikies or bikies, associates, you know, beating people up, in particular women. I think there was one woman that you've got tape of who's been beaten up on a lunchtime break, I think, from someone who was working on one of these projects. So tell us about that.

Well, the way the corruption system worked, to put it simply, is the CFMEU placed bikies or forced bikies onto Victorian government projects. Now, bikies are notorious for a couple of things. The first is violence standover and the second is their mistreatment or disregard for the rights of females of women. Often women are simply treated like property. Now combine those two elements on a government work site and you're going to have women exposed to awful violence. That's precisely what happened. The point being, this was utterly foreseeable and it should never have happened. What has happened? Women have been bashed by health and safety reps from Victorian Government big build projects. Women have been assaulted outside those projects when they have complained about those assaults, those brutal bashings one caught on camera. It's the women who've lost their jobs. It's the women who've been black banned from these state government sites. Again, it points to a system that has allowed violence, that has allowed criminality, that has allowed or empowered bikie gangs to operate at huge cost, not just to taxpayers, but to vulnerable people, to women, to ordinary people working on these sites. Women aren't the only people being stood over. There's regular builders, building workers, site project managers, lowly management getting stood over by these bikie types. And no one really has been held accountable in any meaningful way in terms of the actual violence itself, or in terms of the system that permitted it to occur.

Well, the way the corruption system worked, to put it simply, is the CFMEU placed bikies or forced bikies onto Victorian government projects. Now, bikies are notorious for a couple of things. The first is violence standover and the second is their mistreatment or disregard for the rights of females of women. Often women are simply treated like property. Now combine those two elements on a government work site and you're going to have women exposed to awful violence. That's precisely what happened. The point being, this was utterly foreseeable and it should never have happened. What has happened? Women have been bashed by health and safety reps from Victorian Government big build projects. Women have been assaulted outside those projects when they have complained about those assaults, those brutal bashings one caught on camera. It's the women who've lost their jobs. It's the women who've been black banned from these state government sites. Again, it points to a system that has allowed violence, that has allowed criminality, that has allowed or empowered bikie gangs to operate at huge cost, not just to taxpayers, but to vulnerable people, to women, to ordinary people working on these sites. Women aren't the only people being stood over. There's regular builders, building workers, site project managers, lowly management getting stood over by these bikie types. And no one really has been held accountable in any meaningful way in terms of the actual violence itself, or in terms of the system that permitted it to occur.

We'll be right back. Nick, I want to ask you now about the accountability in all of this. You know, if there is evidence that does suggest that Mick Gatto has been operating within the CFMEU, then why hasn't he been charged with any crime?

We'll be right back. Nick, I want to ask you now about the accountability in all of this. You know, if there is evidence that does suggest that Mick Gatto has been operating within the CFMEU, then why hasn't he been charged with any crime?

Well, it must be said these allegations as they pertain to Mick Gatto, are merely that there are allegations. There's been police searches. He has no recent criminal convictions to speak of. He insists he's a legitimate businessman, but he's also Mick Gatto, one of the most feared gangland figures in Victoria. We can also say that as a fact, the fact that there are gatto's, he's just one of many who can operate with impunity in the construction sector, who've been normalized, legitimised by the union by building companies that pay people like him is not just a problem for the union and these building companies. It's a problem for the state government because it creates the system that has allowed this conduct to flourish. Where's the accountability? Well, there's been none. We've not heard in any detail from the Victorian Government. The Federal Government as to why the Victorian Government permitted a system on its major projects which gave rise or facilitated this further conduct by the ghettos of of the world. Did the people on those sites know that bikies were on their sites? Of course they did. They stand out like sore thumbs, you know, blokes with covered in tattoos who are known openly on these sites to be members of the rebels, the Comanchero, the Mongols. If it was an open secret on these sites, then surely the state bureaucrats in charge of these sites knew and they did know. And how do we know that? We've seen evidence that allegations of wrongdoing were passed on to public officials. Geoffrey Watson, the chief investigator, has told us he's seen similar evidence. It's really on the Victorian government, first and foremost, to explain why this has gone on, what truly has gone on and who's going to be held to account.

Well, it must be said these allegations as they pertain to Mick Gatto, are merely that there are allegations. There's been police searches. He has no recent criminal convictions to speak of. He insists he's a legitimate businessman, but he's also Mick Gatto, one of the most feared gangland figures in Victoria. We can also say that as a fact, the fact that there are gatto's, he's just one of many who can operate with impunity in the construction sector, who've been normalized, legitimised by the union by building companies that pay people like him is not just a problem for the union and these building companies. It's a problem for the state government because it creates the system that has allowed this conduct to flourish. Where's the accountability? Well, there's been none. We've not heard in any detail from the Victorian Government. The Federal Government as to why the Victorian Government permitted a system on its major projects which gave rise or facilitated this further conduct by the ghettos of of the world. Did the people on those sites know that bikies were on their sites? Of course they did. They stand out like sore thumbs, you know, blokes with covered in tattoos who are known openly on these sites to be members of the rebels, the Comanchero, the Mongols. If it was an open secret on these sites, then surely the state bureaucrats in charge of these sites knew and they did know. And how do we know that? We've seen evidence that allegations of wrongdoing were passed on to public officials. Geoffrey Watson, the chief investigator, has told us he's seen similar evidence. It's really on the Victorian government, first and foremost, to explain why this has gone on, what truly has gone on and who's going to be held to account.

Well, let's get into that a little bit, because Geoffrey Watson made an extraordinary claim in his interview with you, which is that he says that the ongoing mess in the CFMEU is, at least in part, the fault of the Allan government. So can you just tell us what he meant by that?

Well, let's get into that a little bit, because Geoffrey Watson made an extraordinary claim in his interview with you, which is that he says that the ongoing mess in the CFMEU is, at least in part, the fault of the Allan government. So can you just tell us what he meant by that?

Well, what he meant is very clear. The Allan government in the middle of last year said we don't stand for crime and corruption that has infiltrated, infected the industry, including its own sites, and we will introduce reforms to stop it. The state government supported placing the CFMEU into administration, which has happened. It referred allegations to police and anti-corruption authorities. It also said it would introduce new Anti-bikie association laws, which also have happened. And most importantly, it commissioned a inquiry by a retired or ex public servant to look at these problems and how they permeated through the state's construction sector. Now, many months later, the evidence shows that this conduct, this crime and corruption the government so boldly called out is still occurring as we speak. But what's worse, this public inquiry the government called was so superficial in the view of Geoffrey Watson. Now, he said, an inquiry that was going to look at how organised crime, corruption and criminality flourished needed to ask the question as to who in the public service knew or at least knew of the red flags and who in political offices knew. And it did none of those things. And that's why Watson is calling out the state government for sponsoring, commissioning what has turned out to be, in his words, nothing more than a whitewash.

Well, what he meant is very clear. The Allan government in the middle of last year said we don't stand for crime and corruption that has infiltrated, infected the industry, including its own sites, and we will introduce reforms to stop it. The state government supported placing the CFMEU into administration, which has happened. It referred allegations to police and anti-corruption authorities. It also said it would introduce new Anti-bikie association laws, which also have happened. And most importantly, it commissioned a inquiry by a retired or ex public servant to look at these problems and how they permeated through the state's construction sector. Now, many months later, the evidence shows that this conduct, this crime and corruption the government so boldly called out is still occurring as we speak. But what's worse, this public inquiry the government called was so superficial in the view of Geoffrey Watson. Now, he said, an inquiry that was going to look at how organised crime, corruption and criminality flourished needed to ask the question as to who in the public service knew or at least knew of the red flags and who in political offices knew. And it did none of those things. And that's why Watson is calling out the state government for sponsoring, commissioning what has turned out to be, in his words, nothing more than a whitewash.

And you actually put it.

And you actually put it.

To Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan. You asked her why her government has failed to act in any meaningful way to clean up this CFMEU. So what did she say in response?

To Victorian Premier Jacinta Allan. You asked her why her government has failed to act in any meaningful way to clean up this CFMEU. So what did she say in response?

Well, she didn't answer my questions and she put out some rehearsed lines about if anyone has serious allegations, they should go to the police. I mean, the fact of the matter is, and the police will tell you this privately, people, if they do go to the police about these sorts of issues, often see no result. And if they see a result, it takes years to produce. They are scared about going to the police for obvious reasons, because if they go to the police, they have to speak up about serious organised crime figures or bikies. Who wants to do that? Proposing the police is the answer is simply I mean, frankly, it's it's a fraud in the Victorian public because if the Victorian public follows that advice and goes to the police, it's highly likely that their complaint won't be acted on in a fashion that actually leads to this sort of conduct being stamped out. Now, that's an open secret in the police force and certainly known by the administration. And I would presume the Premier herself knows that. So to just handball, it's hospital handball is what it is, is what is what the premier is performing. And the Victorian public, I think, deserve better.

Well, she didn't answer my questions and she put out some rehearsed lines about if anyone has serious allegations, they should go to the police. I mean, the fact of the matter is, and the police will tell you this privately, people, if they do go to the police about these sorts of issues, often see no result. And if they see a result, it takes years to produce. They are scared about going to the police for obvious reasons, because if they go to the police, they have to speak up about serious organised crime figures or bikies. Who wants to do that? Proposing the police is the answer is simply I mean, frankly, it's it's a fraud in the Victorian public because if the Victorian public follows that advice and goes to the police, it's highly likely that their complaint won't be acted on in a fashion that actually leads to this sort of conduct being stamped out. Now, that's an open secret in the police force and certainly known by the administration. And I would presume the Premier herself knows that. So to just handball, it's hospital handball is what it is, is what is what the premier is performing. And the Victorian public, I think, deserve better.

And so, Nick.

And so, Nick.

Just to wrap up, I have to ask you where to from here because not only did your first investigation, which got a lot of exposure, it came out last July, but you've actually been looking into this for, you know, about a decade, if not longer. So yeah. Where to from here?

Just to wrap up, I have to ask you where to from here because not only did your first investigation, which got a lot of exposure, it came out last July, but you've actually been looking into this for, you know, about a decade, if not longer. So yeah. Where to from here?

Well, I mean, that's a question that confounds me, to be honest, because we've had multiple media reports over the years. We've had two royal commissions over two decades. We've had the recent huge revelations. Last year the CFMEU is placed into administration. There's promises of new laws and police action, and yet the villains in this picture are still operating with impunity. There is still commentary bikies cruising around Victoria, standing over businesses on behalf of state government building industry subcontractors happening this week. So where to from here? Well, the government and especially the Victorian government needs to act to ensure there is, in the first instance, proper accountability. What does that look like? Is that a commission of inquiry that goes after forget the union goes after organised crime. Why don't we have a commission of inquiry looking at organised crime, the involvement of bikies and gangland figures, be it in the Union, be it in building companies, large or small, be it on state government projects, let's make organised crime the target. Why doesn't the state government, with the support of the federal government, do knew that it would clean up building sites around the nation. But the point being, there's a lot more to be done and it needs to be done.

Well, I mean, that's a question that confounds me, to be honest, because we've had multiple media reports over the years. We've had two royal commissions over two decades. We've had the recent huge revelations. Last year the CFMEU is placed into administration. There's promises of new laws and police action, and yet the villains in this picture are still operating with impunity. There is still commentary bikies cruising around Victoria, standing over businesses on behalf of state government building industry subcontractors happening this week. So where to from here? Well, the government and especially the Victorian government needs to act to ensure there is, in the first instance, proper accountability. What does that look like? Is that a commission of inquiry that goes after forget the union goes after organised crime. Why don't we have a commission of inquiry looking at organised crime, the involvement of bikies and gangland figures, be it in the Union, be it in building companies, large or small, be it on state government projects, let's make organised crime the target. Why doesn't the state government, with the support of the federal government, do knew that it would clean up building sites around the nation. But the point being, there's a lot more to be done and it needs to be done.

Well, thank you so much for your time.

Well, thank you so much for your time.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself and Josh towers. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. The Morning Edition is a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. To support our journalism, subscribe to us by visiting The Age or smh.com.au. Forward slash subscribe and sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a comprehensive summary of the day's most important news, analysis and insights in your inbox every day. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is the morning edition. Thanks for listening.

Today's episode of The Morning Edition was produced by myself and Josh towers. Tom McKendrick is our head of audio. The Morning Edition is a production of The Age and The Sydney Morning Herald. To support our journalism, subscribe to us by visiting The Age or smh.com.au. Forward slash subscribe and sign up for our Morning Edition newsletter to receive a comprehensive summary of the day's most important news, analysis and insights in your inbox every day. Links are in the show. Notes. I'm Samantha Selinger. Morris. This is the morning edition. Thanks for listening.