Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.

Welcome to Checking In with Michelle Williams, a production of iHeartRadio and The Black Effect.

What's Up, everybody?

What's Up, everybody?

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Checking In, y'all. It's going to be a fun one. When you've got a longtime friend that's checking in, you are bound for laughs, wisdom. I have no idea what he's gonna share, but I'm so excited to have award winning television producer, my personal friend, John Murray is coming up next on Checking In. Y'all. Welcome to another another fabulous week of Checking In. I cannot do what I do without you and your continuous support and those downloads. You gotta keep those downloads going. I'm excited about today's episode because I've got a dear friend, oh going on a lot of number of years. He has been a TV commentator, executive producer, pop culture expert. Once again, did I say executive producer executive producer of the Emmy nominated amazing show, The Sherry Shepherd Show.

Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Checking In, y'all. It's going to be a fun one. When you've got a longtime friend that's checking in, you are bound for laughs, wisdom. I have no idea what he's gonna share, but I'm so excited to have award winning television producer, my personal friend, John Murray is coming up next on Checking In. Y'all. Welcome to another another fabulous week of Checking In. I cannot do what I do without you and your continuous support and those downloads. You gotta keep those downloads going. I'm excited about today's episode because I've got a dear friend, oh going on a lot of number of years. He has been a TV commentator, executive producer, pop culture expert. Once again, did I say executive producer executive producer of the Emmy nominated amazing show, The Sherry Shepherd Show.

Please welcome my friend John Murray.

Please welcome my friend John Murray.

I love that because you always say my name like we're on Bobby, Joe, Bunny, judesus.

I love that because you always say my name like we're on Bobby, Joe, Bunny, judesus.

But John, he calls me, so we talked, so he never gets to see how I look when I said, John.

But John, he calls me, so we talked, so he never gets to see how I look when I said, John.

Murray, you know, since we hear checking in, I'm just checking into my checking in. Candles that I have from you over here still smells really good, so good that I haven't burned it yet because you haven't sent me another one.

Murray, you know, since we hear checking in, I'm just checking into my checking in. Candles that I have from you over here still smells really good, so good that I haven't burned it yet because you haven't sent me another one.

So black people, black people, why don't we burn the candles?

So black people, black people, why don't we burn the candles?

Sometimes they smell too good to birth. Sometimes you just want, you know, burn that.

Sometimes they smell too good to birth. Sometimes you just want, you know, burn that.

Candle so you can get another one.

Candle so you can get another one.

Yes, I need to go, and I do need to go and get me another one. But it's wonderful. I love it so and you said, I have it right here behind me, y'all.

Yes, I need to go, and I do need to go and get me another one. But it's wonderful. I love it so and you said, I have it right here behind me, y'all.

He is sitting in his office of The Sherry Shepherd Show.

He is sitting in his office of The Sherry Shepherd Show.

So I'm so thankful for his time.

So I'm so thankful for his time.

Is that? Okay?

Is that? Okay?

Let me guess what it is? NAACP Award in the back.

Let me guess what it is? NAACP Award in the back.

Oh, this little thing right here. Yes, this is my NAACP Image Award that I got for Season one of the Sherify Show for Outstanding Talk Shows. One of the executive producers, you get one of the awards. So yeah, I'm very proud of this. You know, there's another award on my other side. You can't see it in the shot, but it's called the Telly Award. So all of our digital campaigns are something that we used to launch the Chevy Show. We got recognized for this was the Telly Bronze Award for a fun Joy and Laughter and fun Joy Laughter was the part of the campaign that also got us Emmy nomination for season one. So we're excited that folks have connected with our little show that Could, and you know, one a few wards nominated for some others. We just got nominated for People's Choice Awards, So we're just grateful that people really are connected with our message.

Oh, this little thing right here. Yes, this is my NAACP Image Award that I got for Season one of the Sherify Show for Outstanding Talk Shows. One of the executive producers, you get one of the awards. So yeah, I'm very proud of this. You know, there's another award on my other side. You can't see it in the shot, but it's called the Telly Award. So all of our digital campaigns are something that we used to launch the Chevy Show. We got recognized for this was the Telly Bronze Award for a fun Joy and Laughter and fun Joy Laughter was the part of the campaign that also got us Emmy nomination for season one. So we're excited that folks have connected with our little show that Could, and you know, one a few wards nominated for some others. We just got nominated for People's Choice Awards, So we're just grateful that people really are connected with our message.

You know, well, that's what our relationship has been about. And the relationship that you have with people translate very well on television because that's just who you are, a person that loves to have fun, full of joy, full of laughter.

You know, well, that's what our relationship has been about. And the relationship that you have with people translate very well on television because that's just who you are, a person that loves to have fun, full of joy, full of laughter.

I met John.

I met John.

Two thousand and eight, so the first time we met was brief. He was at one of the Soul Traine Awards. You had just put out your solo album Hard to Yours.

Two thousand and eight, so the first time we met was brief. He was at one of the Soul Traine Awards. You had just put out your solo album Hard to Yours.

Oh, two thousand and two one, and Tony Ferguson, who worked at Sony Records with your personal publicis Now You've Got No Shore, was handling you at.

Oh, two thousand and two one, and Tony Ferguson, who worked at Sony Records with your personal publicis Now You've Got No Shore, was handling you at.

The Soul Train Awards. Tony and I were good friends. He's a big champion of around when I started in the business, initially as a writer, and so he knew I always love people who could bridge the gap. You are a church girl who's doing mainstream music, and hearty yours was your fur way back into gospel music. So he knew I wanted to meet you, and he brought me up and introduced me to you. He was like, this is your biggest fan, and he jokingly says, one day y'all gonna get married. He was like, well, honey, where's the ring? And we laughed and we took a photo. And then years later I was at the opening of The Color Purple in La so you might remember that year better than me, and one of the guys who was in the ensemble of the show went to introduce us, and he was like, I don't know who you are. You've been talking about me on the town a boarding show. I've been hearing you. I love when you talk about me. And we laughed and he was like, here, stay in touch with me. But you gave me your email address, not your telephone number. And but years later, you know, we built our rapport and I remember there was something going on in the industry that I was like, I want to give you some insight on something, and I sent you an email and you called me. I was on my way to the toront Film Festival, because I remember I can see myself sitting in the airport when we had our conversation and we sat and talked, and we've been talking on the phone ever since.

The Soul Train Awards. Tony and I were good friends. He's a big champion of around when I started in the business, initially as a writer, and so he knew I always love people who could bridge the gap. You are a church girl who's doing mainstream music, and hearty yours was your fur way back into gospel music. So he knew I wanted to meet you, and he brought me up and introduced me to you. He was like, this is your biggest fan, and he jokingly says, one day y'all gonna get married. He was like, well, honey, where's the ring? And we laughed and we took a photo. And then years later I was at the opening of The Color Purple in La so you might remember that year better than me, and one of the guys who was in the ensemble of the show went to introduce us, and he was like, I don't know who you are. You've been talking about me on the town a boarding show. I've been hearing you. I love when you talk about me. And we laughed and he was like, here, stay in touch with me. But you gave me your email address, not your telephone number. And but years later, you know, we built our rapport and I remember there was something going on in the industry that I was like, I want to give you some insight on something, and I sent you an email and you called me. I was on my way to the toront Film Festival, because I remember I can see myself sitting in the airport when we had our conversation and we sat and talked, and we've been talking on the phone ever since.

Y'all, listen, that's why you gotta be careful how you treat people, because sometimes they remember more. I guess maybe the person that's on the receiving end of various types of communication remembers more.

Y'all, listen, that's why you gotta be careful how you treat people, because sometimes they remember more. I guess maybe the person that's on the receiving end of various types of communication remembers more.

I only gave you my email address.

I only gave you my email address.

And but listen, boundaries, you've learned that over time, sometimes you got to you know, you got to start slow with people on the same way down. People will run up to me on the street. Now, this is a working in this business. I've always had a level of notoriety, but being in people's homes every day, it's a whole different investment. Like people feel like they know you. And because Sharry and I are friends in real life, though I happen to be the executive producer or her talk show, people see our friendship, and they try to emulate that when I run to them in the grocery stores and then the target and places like that. And so people can be really aggressive and run up for you. You'll give me a number, And so I had to learn how to establish boundaries because you know, you know, sometimes you don't want the confrontation of an aggressive Now though I'm very comfortable with the word no, but sometimes people can catch you in a weird predicament where they put you on the spot and you're trying to navigate out of it. And so Google Voice and those telephone numbers have worked to create a great alternative to the fact that no, no, you can call this number. You just hain't called the one that's you know, getting direct access to me.

And but listen, boundaries, you've learned that over time, sometimes you got to you know, you got to start slow with people on the same way down. People will run up to me on the street. Now, this is a working in this business. I've always had a level of notoriety, but being in people's homes every day, it's a whole different investment. Like people feel like they know you. And because Sharry and I are friends in real life, though I happen to be the executive producer or her talk show, people see our friendship, and they try to emulate that when I run to them in the grocery stores and then the target and places like that. And so people can be really aggressive and run up for you. You'll give me a number, And so I had to learn how to establish boundaries because you know, you know, sometimes you don't want the confrontation of an aggressive Now though I'm very comfortable with the word no, but sometimes people can catch you in a weird predicament where they put you on the spot and you're trying to navigate out of it. And so Google Voice and those telephone numbers have worked to create a great alternative to the fact that no, no, you can call this number. You just hain't called the one that's you know, getting direct access to me.

They go, get this number, yeah, yeah, John, and I go as far back to what was known as AOL Black voices.

They go, get this number, yeah, yeah, John, and I go as far back to what was known as AOL Black voices.

Yeah, that was a good time.

Yeah, that was a good time.

Such good times.

Such good times.

I always looked forward to looking to see what was going to be on AOL Black voices.

I always looked forward to looking to see what was going to be on AOL Black voices.

So you got your start. You are a writer and me he was a writer journalist like.

So you got your start. You are a writer and me he was a writer journalist like.

Yeah, yeah, real journalisten. Yes. I went to an HBCU Norfolk State University, inspired to go to an HBCU because I love the sitcom A different world. And I went to school and I would tell my professors, I'm not learning any of the technical stuff. I gonna be a star. I'm working in television. I only need to learn how to work a camera. That kid was so arrogant, even though he wasn't. He just had a vision, you know. But I had a professor that told me, he was like, listen, TV's gonna be hard, and as a black man, it's gonna be particularly harder for you to break into it, and you need to think of a plan. B He's like, you're a really good writer. So I started taking journalism courses as my electives. And the whole dot com boom was happening. All the digital companies were happening. Everybody was really thriving in the digital space. And here I was a college kid who created a newsletter after an internship at a radio station in DC just started generating national attention for me. It was based off my middle name. It was called Garrick News. I had to set up in a Hotmail account and people would come to the radio station or come into my market. They give me their email and you had to email me to get added to my database because it didn't have one of those lists serves and stuff like we have now to send out newsletters and stuff like that. So our master's database of celebrities, and then sometimes I signed it to my AOL account and celebrities would hit me in the instant message and then I'd have to hit some other celebrity I met and be like, YO, is this such and such celebrities real message chat name? But I had like four major celebrity friends who befriended me through instant message chat because they love the work. And so the newsletter turned into me working for a newsworter called euur Web. I was there a short amount of time, and then AOL had acquired Black Voices, and I got approached about doing what was initially a weekly column. And then when the age of the blog came about, they turned our weekly content into like daily content to kind of compete in the blog space. But my column was one of the most successful columns there, and so I left Norflea State before graduating because the work and the money offers got so good. I was like, how come I can finish this up later? But my writing career really took off, and here I am, indeed at the time was in DC uh and even though DC had b ET's headquarters, TV one's headquarters, Discovery had an office there. Serious had a headquarter there before merging with Serious x M. It was a political time and I was able to make a national name for myself as a writer. And one of the things that worked for me was that, for the most part of a celebrity freely. You know, sometimes celebrities would get mad if you just would report the truth about them, as celebrities often do. But I was, well, you know, but I cared more about the human nature of celebrities than I did about the selacious nature of stories and a headline or what we now call clickbait of gotscha moments, and having that level of care for people and their humanity early on, and maybe it was the church boy and me, it has served me well my entire career because many of those relationships that started when I was just the writer continue to flourish now and have even helped me with booking some of the guests and calling in some favors here to talk show.

Yeah, yeah, real journalisten. Yes. I went to an HBCU Norfolk State University, inspired to go to an HBCU because I love the sitcom A different world. And I went to school and I would tell my professors, I'm not learning any of the technical stuff. I gonna be a star. I'm working in television. I only need to learn how to work a camera. That kid was so arrogant, even though he wasn't. He just had a vision, you know. But I had a professor that told me, he was like, listen, TV's gonna be hard, and as a black man, it's gonna be particularly harder for you to break into it, and you need to think of a plan. B He's like, you're a really good writer. So I started taking journalism courses as my electives. And the whole dot com boom was happening. All the digital companies were happening. Everybody was really thriving in the digital space. And here I was a college kid who created a newsletter after an internship at a radio station in DC just started generating national attention for me. It was based off my middle name. It was called Garrick News. I had to set up in a Hotmail account and people would come to the radio station or come into my market. They give me their email and you had to email me to get added to my database because it didn't have one of those lists serves and stuff like we have now to send out newsletters and stuff like that. So our master's database of celebrities, and then sometimes I signed it to my AOL account and celebrities would hit me in the instant message and then I'd have to hit some other celebrity I met and be like, YO, is this such and such celebrities real message chat name? But I had like four major celebrity friends who befriended me through instant message chat because they love the work. And so the newsletter turned into me working for a newsworter called euur Web. I was there a short amount of time, and then AOL had acquired Black Voices, and I got approached about doing what was initially a weekly column. And then when the age of the blog came about, they turned our weekly content into like daily content to kind of compete in the blog space. But my column was one of the most successful columns there, and so I left Norflea State before graduating because the work and the money offers got so good. I was like, how come I can finish this up later? But my writing career really took off, and here I am, indeed at the time was in DC uh and even though DC had b ET's headquarters, TV one's headquarters, Discovery had an office there. Serious had a headquarter there before merging with Serious x M. It was a political time and I was able to make a national name for myself as a writer. And one of the things that worked for me was that, for the most part of a celebrity freely. You know, sometimes celebrities would get mad if you just would report the truth about them, as celebrities often do. But I was, well, you know, but I cared more about the human nature of celebrities than I did about the selacious nature of stories and a headline or what we now call clickbait of gotscha moments, and having that level of care for people and their humanity early on, and maybe it was the church boy and me, it has served me well my entire career because many of those relationships that started when I was just the writer continue to flourish now and have even helped me with booking some of the guests and calling in some favors here to talk show.

Listen, let me tell you something. Everything that he is saying is true. I'm going to share this with you, y'all remember those times I was co hosting on the View or the talk.

Listen, let me tell you something. Everything that he is saying is true. I'm going to share this with you, y'all remember those times I was co hosting on the View or the talk.

Meredith Vieira.

Meredith Vieira.

It is all because of John Murray's insight, and I have to thank him for that, Like that is what I've wanted to do, was to be a co host on one of these talk shows. And I believe it is going to happen one day. But John could have, knowing that that's something that he wanted to do, he didn't have to tell me that. He could have easily just kept it to himself for himself to be on there. And we thought we were going to be doing Meredith Viera together.

It is all because of John Murray's insight, and I have to thank him for that, Like that is what I've wanted to do, was to be a co host on one of these talk shows. And I believe it is going to happen one day. But John could have, knowing that that's something that he wanted to do, he didn't have to tell me that. He could have easily just kept it to himself for himself to be on there. And we thought we were going to be doing Meredith Viera together.

Yes, because people don't know it's in this business, they do this thing called chemistry test, which is like musical chairs of auditioning. And so this one summer week weekend it was we all got brought into New York. At the time, my agent was told I was the only man up for the job because I had gone in and met with NBC. They liked me and they were like, we want to figure out something to do with him. So they tried me out on Meredith Show. And after the first appearance, they offered me more dates to come back, and so I had done like twelve appearances on her show prior to we got to this secret test. But you and I never worked together. They had you working with everybody else, they had me working with everybody else. We never worked together. But we did this secret test, and I'll never forget. You were like, well, why do I have to get there like three hours earlier than you? And I was like, I don't know. And you went there and they had you tested with another male entertainer. Text me and he was like, such and such entertainers there, but they not as good as you are on cameras, so you could be fine. And I got your text message and I text my agent. I said, this is his job, and she's like, what do you mean. I said, they know what I do, they know why I'm here, and they've misled us into believing that I was the only man testing for this show. Now they brought this other guy in at the eleventh hour. Somebody's called in a favor. I'm gonna go and do what I do, but this is somebody else's getting And that was the first time you and I actually got to work together. And it was a lot of fun.

Yes, because people don't know it's in this business, they do this thing called chemistry test, which is like musical chairs of auditioning. And so this one summer week weekend it was we all got brought into New York. At the time, my agent was told I was the only man up for the job because I had gone in and met with NBC. They liked me and they were like, we want to figure out something to do with him. So they tried me out on Meredith Show. And after the first appearance, they offered me more dates to come back, and so I had done like twelve appearances on her show prior to we got to this secret test. But you and I never worked together. They had you working with everybody else, they had me working with everybody else. We never worked together. But we did this secret test, and I'll never forget. You were like, well, why do I have to get there like three hours earlier than you? And I was like, I don't know. And you went there and they had you tested with another male entertainer. Text me and he was like, such and such entertainers there, but they not as good as you are on cameras, so you could be fine. And I got your text message and I text my agent. I said, this is his job, and she's like, what do you mean. I said, they know what I do, they know why I'm here, and they've misled us into believing that I was the only man testing for this show. Now they brought this other guy in at the eleventh hour. Somebody's called in a favor. I'm gonna go and do what I do, but this is somebody else's getting And that was the first time you and I actually got to work together. And it was a lot of fun.

It was tons of fun, y'all. There is so much history here. I want to respect John's time, but I also want to respect everything that he is. But I'm going to go back to something that you said that is so important. When you were in college, you were talking about how you knew you wanted to be on TV, but someone told you you probably should also get into writing. What do you think would have happened had you been too arrogant or prideful to take their suggestion.

It was tons of fun, y'all. There is so much history here. I want to respect John's time, but I also want to respect everything that he is. But I'm going to go back to something that you said that is so important. When you were in college, you were talking about how you knew you wanted to be on TV, but someone told you you probably should also get into writing. What do you think would have happened had you been too arrogant or prideful to take their suggestion.

I probably would have ended up like a lot of people that I know who started on the pathway to entertainment realized that it was tough, and you know, you start living life, you start making bills, you start making babies, you start families, and you have to support that financially. So a lot of people needed to take jobs to support their lifestyle, and that caused them to have to avoid their dream. And I was really blessed that the plan b writing open doors for me that I could not have fathomed for myself. I was able to create my own space. It was the quintessential example of when time and preparation meet. I was prepared for that moment, but the timing of the business was wide open, and I was someone who was able to make space. And so it's been great to see some of the people who now use social media and digital media to make space and they're having success and their bloggers and their YouTubers and they're you know, doing video content and stuff and cultivating an audience with it, because that's what I was able to do with the print medium at that time. And so I was able to be a full time writer for twelve years and it opened doors for me. So I was maybe four or five years into my writing career when one day I got a call from an executive named Sheila Eldert who said, Hey, the Tom Jorder Morning Show is interested in adding a younger voice to their show. They like to test you out, and so they booked me for a one off segment. I did the segment the same day they made me an offer to join the show. So I was aoll block Voices for seven years. Six of those years I also was on the time during the morning show. So I had this rock star media life. One hundred thousand frequent five miles a year, five Star hotels, flyinding to La taking the anitrak to New York to interview top music stars and top Hollywood stars because the industry respected my platform and my voice. And one of the graces that God gave me early into this thing was I could sit with a celebrity they have done twenty five interviews that day, and I would sit and have a conversation with them. And the biggest compliment to give a media professionalist, Oh my god, that's such a great question. Nobody's ever asked me that before. If I know, you know, I've done thirty interviews today as a part of some press junket and you say that to me, I've just gotten off like I'm my ego is just like yes. But at the end of these interviews, celebrities will say to me, there's just something about you. You're different than the regular industry guy. Can I give you my information and listen? You know, I'm in my forties now, so like I remember, there was a time where you go out with a music artist and they'd be like, yo, I got to hang out with you, or can I call you for advice? Sometimes I'm thinking you got Grammys and you calling me for advice, And they would say, here's my two way page number, it changes every sixty days. If it changes, called my Mama's house line, and the cod word is Gertrude. If you say gert true, She'll give you my new number and then I'll make sure I hit you back. Well, it was I remember like and I was nineteen twenty years old hanging out with these bold face named superstars just because we'd have an authentic connection through conversation. So it was a crazy time in my life. But I never tried to dishonor those relationships, and again those relationships continue to serve me to this present day.

I probably would have ended up like a lot of people that I know who started on the pathway to entertainment realized that it was tough, and you know, you start living life, you start making bills, you start making babies, you start families, and you have to support that financially. So a lot of people needed to take jobs to support their lifestyle, and that caused them to have to avoid their dream. And I was really blessed that the plan b writing open doors for me that I could not have fathomed for myself. I was able to create my own space. It was the quintessential example of when time and preparation meet. I was prepared for that moment, but the timing of the business was wide open, and I was someone who was able to make space. And so it's been great to see some of the people who now use social media and digital media to make space and they're having success and their bloggers and their YouTubers and they're you know, doing video content and stuff and cultivating an audience with it, because that's what I was able to do with the print medium at that time. And so I was able to be a full time writer for twelve years and it opened doors for me. So I was maybe four or five years into my writing career when one day I got a call from an executive named Sheila Eldert who said, Hey, the Tom Jorder Morning Show is interested in adding a younger voice to their show. They like to test you out, and so they booked me for a one off segment. I did the segment the same day they made me an offer to join the show. So I was aoll block Voices for seven years. Six of those years I also was on the time during the morning show. So I had this rock star media life. One hundred thousand frequent five miles a year, five Star hotels, flyinding to La taking the anitrak to New York to interview top music stars and top Hollywood stars because the industry respected my platform and my voice. And one of the graces that God gave me early into this thing was I could sit with a celebrity they have done twenty five interviews that day, and I would sit and have a conversation with them. And the biggest compliment to give a media professionalist, Oh my god, that's such a great question. Nobody's ever asked me that before. If I know, you know, I've done thirty interviews today as a part of some press junket and you say that to me, I've just gotten off like I'm my ego is just like yes. But at the end of these interviews, celebrities will say to me, there's just something about you. You're different than the regular industry guy. Can I give you my information and listen? You know, I'm in my forties now, so like I remember, there was a time where you go out with a music artist and they'd be like, yo, I got to hang out with you, or can I call you for advice? Sometimes I'm thinking you got Grammys and you calling me for advice, And they would say, here's my two way page number, it changes every sixty days. If it changes, called my Mama's house line, and the cod word is Gertrude. If you say gert true, She'll give you my new number and then I'll make sure I hit you back. Well, it was I remember like and I was nineteen twenty years old hanging out with these bold face named superstars just because we'd have an authentic connection through conversation. So it was a crazy time in my life. But I never tried to dishonor those relationships, and again those relationships continue to serve me to this present day.

That's so good because you have a genuine passion for all things entertainment, broadway, film, television, music, everything as it relates to the art.

That's so good because you have a genuine passion for all things entertainment, broadway, film, television, music, everything as it relates to the art.

You have a genuine passion versus I don't know if.

You have a genuine passion versus I don't know if.

It's because social media or what it is. It makes me scary about people's true intentions.

It's because social media or what it is. It makes me scary about people's true intentions.

Oh yeah, yeah, And I got into this business because I love the business. Listen. I was a latchkey kid, you know. As a teenager, we lived in a two bedroom apartment. My mother worked, her husband worked because her husband with my daddy, and so I had to let my hope in after school and talk shows with my babysitters. Ricky Lakeer was my babysitter, Orlanda Watch was my babysitter. Mantel Williams was my babysitter. Sally Jesse, Roelfaia, all those hosts. It was my babysitters. And I fell in love with this format. I fell in love with television. I fell in love with the escapism that TV provided, you know what I'm saying. I had that even as a pretty team. I had an aunt that used to babysat me, and when she was babysit me, she loved to watch the vintage talk show. So she would watch repeats of I Love Lucy and leave It to bab And I love the comedic storytelling of I Love Lucy. And my favorite iteration of that show is when Ricky went to Hollywood. And so I always had these visions and fantasies of getting to LA because I wanted to do what Ricky and Lucy did on those episodes. And you know, so as kids were impressionable, you know, these are the foundations that are stat and so I had a clear vision that I wanted to get into this business. And then once you started a business, I came in this business and I was just a black entertainment journalist. I could tell you what was going on with black celebrities and music in Hollywood and that was it. But I realized in order to have greater successor you had to be broader, and I'll never get two thousand and eight, I was on the time during the morning show my AOL column is Thriving. Star Jones had a talk show on Core TV, and she called me and told me, she says, I really want you to come and do my show, and you know, start war her where She's like, baby, you know, I know you got this black stuff down on lock, but I need you to be broader than that. So I'm having you come on here talk about Britney Spears and a few people, because you know you're an expert on them too. And it stretched me. It requires that I had to work a little bit. And the truth of the matter is the storytelling was still the same I you know, I always brought with and I tried to bring a comedic aspect to my storytelling. That was still the same. But if it requires that I did a little research, which mean I always had to be well read and I always had to study before I showed up to do a segment. And so, you know, just being prepared, doing your research and having an appreci ciation for every facet of the business really makes you a well rounded talent because the business changes. You know, I made a real joke about how our celebrity would give me their two way pager number. We don't have two way pages anymore, you know what I'm saying. Vinyls having a resurgence, but it went on a style for a while. All of us used to have CD collections. We don't know CDs anymore. This industry changes and genres change, and we used to have just linear television and it would get twenty million viewers on a TV show and now we have streaming networks. And so you have to be versatile enough to be in the pivot because if the sector of the business that you're working in goes out of style, what do you do next? If you're not well read.

Oh yeah, yeah, And I got into this business because I love the business. Listen. I was a latchkey kid, you know. As a teenager, we lived in a two bedroom apartment. My mother worked, her husband worked because her husband with my daddy, and so I had to let my hope in after school and talk shows with my babysitters. Ricky Lakeer was my babysitter, Orlanda Watch was my babysitter. Mantel Williams was my babysitter. Sally Jesse, Roelfaia, all those hosts. It was my babysitters. And I fell in love with this format. I fell in love with television. I fell in love with the escapism that TV provided, you know what I'm saying. I had that even as a pretty team. I had an aunt that used to babysat me, and when she was babysit me, she loved to watch the vintage talk show. So she would watch repeats of I Love Lucy and leave It to bab And I love the comedic storytelling of I Love Lucy. And my favorite iteration of that show is when Ricky went to Hollywood. And so I always had these visions and fantasies of getting to LA because I wanted to do what Ricky and Lucy did on those episodes. And you know, so as kids were impressionable, you know, these are the foundations that are stat and so I had a clear vision that I wanted to get into this business. And then once you started a business, I came in this business and I was just a black entertainment journalist. I could tell you what was going on with black celebrities and music in Hollywood and that was it. But I realized in order to have greater successor you had to be broader, and I'll never get two thousand and eight, I was on the time during the morning show my AOL column is Thriving. Star Jones had a talk show on Core TV, and she called me and told me, she says, I really want you to come and do my show, and you know, start war her where She's like, baby, you know, I know you got this black stuff down on lock, but I need you to be broader than that. So I'm having you come on here talk about Britney Spears and a few people, because you know you're an expert on them too. And it stretched me. It requires that I had to work a little bit. And the truth of the matter is the storytelling was still the same I you know, I always brought with and I tried to bring a comedic aspect to my storytelling. That was still the same. But if it requires that I did a little research, which mean I always had to be well read and I always had to study before I showed up to do a segment. And so, you know, just being prepared, doing your research and having an appreci ciation for every facet of the business really makes you a well rounded talent because the business changes. You know, I made a real joke about how our celebrity would give me their two way pager number. We don't have two way pages anymore, you know what I'm saying. Vinyls having a resurgence, but it went on a style for a while. All of us used to have CD collections. We don't know CDs anymore. This industry changes and genres change, and we used to have just linear television and it would get twenty million viewers on a TV show and now we have streaming networks. And so you have to be versatile enough to be in the pivot because if the sector of the business that you're working in goes out of style, what do you do next? If you're not well read.

That's so good preparation.

That's so good preparation.

And we've both been in this for so long and having to be flexible and navigate even through being prepared, and y'all, it's been so much fun watching John throughout.

And we've both been in this for so long and having to be flexible and navigate even through being prepared, and y'all, it's been so much fun watching John throughout.

The years on CNN. Heck, the BBC Meani.

The years on CNN. Heck, the BBC Meani.

There are times he would have to be ready at all times of.

There are times he would have to be ready at all times of.

The O in the morning, absolutely and.

The O in the morning, absolutely and.

Or night to talk about even some of the biggest stars to ever be on our planet, like Michael Jackson.

Or night to talk about even some of the biggest stars to ever be on our planet, like Michael Jackson.

So much stuff that has.

So much stuff that has.

Happened, but you've handled even some of the most scandalous stories. You would insert a joke here or there, and you never I guess you weren't the guy that was gonna come even if you had the tea.

Happened, but you've handled even some of the most scandalous stories. You would insert a joke here or there, and you never I guess you weren't the guy that was gonna come even if you had the tea.

It's how you shared it, especially if it was true.

It's how you shared it, especially if it was true.

Yeah. You know, one of my benchmarks as a journalist was you're not empowered by the stories you tell. You're empowered by the secrets you keep. And so for me it was always the long game. There are countless examples of people who had a big scoop or big exclusive and they knew it would get them huge traffic. But then they walk into a room at a party and nobody wants to talk about them, talk around them, or once they'm there, because they don't feel safe. There's nothing sacred about their presence. You know, this space now has been co opted by somebody who might see something. Then they gonna go say something. You know, for me, when I was on and I was working. I'd identify that I was working. If I sat down with you with a recorder in front of you, I'm working. When we turned the recorder off, we talked human to human and that was one of my gifts. And so I remember there were a couple of the bloggers who started out in the business and they would reach out to me for advice. And because when I started doing entertainment news, there really wasn't any black men in the space. There were some women and some folks who would come and were thriving. You know, when I was a last key kid as a teenager watching TV, I remember seeing Tanya Heart on. You know a lot of the talk shows would have entertainment experts. On Friday, it'd be Tanya Heart, Flow, Anthony, and every now and then you'd see Jamie Foster Brown from Sister to Sister, and those were like the three African American people that I would see on television. And when I started in the business, both Tanya and Flow were exceptionally welcoming to me and kind to me and offered me advice on how to you know, just to break through, you know what I'm saying, and so Both of those are ladies who also had great relationships. Flow is somebody who was very close with the Jackson She considers LaToya Jackson one of her best friends. I one time walked in the barber Flow Anthony and Lena Richie jumped up, and you would have thought it was Queen Elizabeth. How excited he was to see her based on their relationships. And Tanya Heart as a woman who opened up BET's West Coast bureau, you know, she, you know, had gave Tupac Shakur his first mainstream interview and the documentaries and stuff that you see now when you see this pretty light skinned ladies sitting down having a conversation with Tupac, that's Tanya. People who have relationships, you know, they have celebrity friends, and then they have friends that happen to be celebrities, And so I looked at them, and the other lesson that I learned early on is that networking will take you further than your skills and ability. Ever. Can we all know talented people all over this country sitting at home wishing that somebody would take them off the sidelines and put them in the game. And the truth of the matter is they haven't fostered the type of relationships to give them the access to be able to showcase what they're actually able to do. And so learning to network early on and then moving with an integrity by being able to understand as a professional, I can get what I get and I can tell a really good story when I was a journalist without having to violate your trust, without having to disrespect you, without having to shame you, you know. And so I was able to do that and again now in the second act of my life, you know, because before I became Shrey's executive producer, you know, you mentioned some of the TV stuff that I did. I think I walked away from the writing part of my career and really just focused on the on camera stuff. And so this was the next iteration, you know, being able to be one of the bosses behind the scene and go on to this journey with Sherry and some of the same relationships from the beginning of my career. I can call those same celebrities if a publicist is blocking them from coming on the show or they want to send them to one of the competition show, I can pick up the phone and say, remember in twenty twenty seven, man, I'm sorry when two thousand and seven when you told me if I ever needed anything to call you, I'm calling in my favor and you can't call in favors and if you aren't good to people in the early phases of those relationships.

Yeah. You know, one of my benchmarks as a journalist was you're not empowered by the stories you tell. You're empowered by the secrets you keep. And so for me it was always the long game. There are countless examples of people who had a big scoop or big exclusive and they knew it would get them huge traffic. But then they walk into a room at a party and nobody wants to talk about them, talk around them, or once they'm there, because they don't feel safe. There's nothing sacred about their presence. You know, this space now has been co opted by somebody who might see something. Then they gonna go say something. You know, for me, when I was on and I was working. I'd identify that I was working. If I sat down with you with a recorder in front of you, I'm working. When we turned the recorder off, we talked human to human and that was one of my gifts. And so I remember there were a couple of the bloggers who started out in the business and they would reach out to me for advice. And because when I started doing entertainment news, there really wasn't any black men in the space. There were some women and some folks who would come and were thriving. You know, when I was a last key kid as a teenager watching TV, I remember seeing Tanya Heart on. You know a lot of the talk shows would have entertainment experts. On Friday, it'd be Tanya Heart, Flow, Anthony, and every now and then you'd see Jamie Foster Brown from Sister to Sister, and those were like the three African American people that I would see on television. And when I started in the business, both Tanya and Flow were exceptionally welcoming to me and kind to me and offered me advice on how to you know, just to break through, you know what I'm saying, and so Both of those are ladies who also had great relationships. Flow is somebody who was very close with the Jackson She considers LaToya Jackson one of her best friends. I one time walked in the barber Flow Anthony and Lena Richie jumped up, and you would have thought it was Queen Elizabeth. How excited he was to see her based on their relationships. And Tanya Heart as a woman who opened up BET's West Coast bureau, you know, she, you know, had gave Tupac Shakur his first mainstream interview and the documentaries and stuff that you see now when you see this pretty light skinned ladies sitting down having a conversation with Tupac, that's Tanya. People who have relationships, you know, they have celebrity friends, and then they have friends that happen to be celebrities, And so I looked at them, and the other lesson that I learned early on is that networking will take you further than your skills and ability. Ever. Can we all know talented people all over this country sitting at home wishing that somebody would take them off the sidelines and put them in the game. And the truth of the matter is they haven't fostered the type of relationships to give them the access to be able to showcase what they're actually able to do. And so learning to network early on and then moving with an integrity by being able to understand as a professional, I can get what I get and I can tell a really good story when I was a journalist without having to violate your trust, without having to disrespect you, without having to shame you, you know. And so I was able to do that and again now in the second act of my life, you know, because before I became Shrey's executive producer, you know, you mentioned some of the TV stuff that I did. I think I walked away from the writing part of my career and really just focused on the on camera stuff. And so this was the next iteration, you know, being able to be one of the bosses behind the scene and go on to this journey with Sherry and some of the same relationships from the beginning of my career. I can call those same celebrities if a publicist is blocking them from coming on the show or they want to send them to one of the competition show, I can pick up the phone and say, remember in twenty twenty seven, man, I'm sorry when two thousand and seven when you told me if I ever needed anything to call you, I'm calling in my favor and you can't call in favors and if you aren't good to people in the early phases of those relationships.

Y'all, y'all want to talk about secrets. John is so correct. Weren't you on the phone when I was going through a breakup?

Y'all, y'all want to talk about secrets. John is so correct. Weren't you on the phone when I was going through a breakup?

Yes, I try not to ever talk about that because it was but that was on one day. I wish there was a camera in your house because I felt like if there was a camera in your house recorded you, it was like there was perfect audition tape for like if they ever did like the movie version of Snaps, or or if Tyler.

Yes, I try not to ever talk about that because it was but that was on one day. I wish there was a camera in your house because I felt like if there was a camera in your house recorded you, it was like there was perfect audition tape for like if they ever did like the movie version of Snaps, or or if Tyler.

Perry won remember the role Tasha smith Lane when she was the evil mother girlfriend going nuts on it just Elba and that movie.

Perry won remember the role Tasha smith Lane when she was the evil mother girlfriend going nuts on it just Elba and that movie.

There was a side of you I had never seen on that phone, And I said, if she was recording this, this is the audition tape. She ever means free.

There was a side of you I had never seen on that phone, And I said, if she was recording this, this is the audition tape. She ever means free.

And it's rare. It is rare, But don't play in my face. I'm trying to figure out.

And it's rare. It is rare, But don't play in my face. I'm trying to figure out.

What I literally got on the phone, and I called John because I think I was in such disbelief. Maybe it was just the audacity of this individual. I can't recall, but I just remember every now and then we talk about that. But y'all, this is because of years of relationship has been cultivated. He has shown me that I can trust him and vice versa.

What I literally got on the phone, and I called John because I think I was in such disbelief. Maybe it was just the audacity of this individual. I can't recall, but I just remember every now and then we talk about that. But y'all, this is because of years of relationship has been cultivated. He has shown me that I can trust him and vice versa.

So I'm just thankful to.

So I'm just thankful to.

Have somebody like that when I was going through managerial transitions and everything, not knowing who can can I tell this to?

Have somebody like that when I was going through managerial transitions and everything, not knowing who can can I tell this to?

What can I do?

What can I do?

John Murray walked me through that. He's walked me through so much, which leads me to the fact that you've talked about the safety and the relationships that you.

John Murray walked me through that. He's walked me through so much, which leads me to the fact that you've talked about the safety and the relationships that you.

Have with people. And I'm excited. We're going to get to Sherry Shepherd.

Have with people. And I'm excited. We're going to get to Sherry Shepherd.

In a moment, but talk about the fact that you have been a coach as well to a lot of talent on how to be on television or if something comes out on them, you show them how to navigate trouble or what could possibly be career ending.

In a moment, but talk about the fact that you have been a coach as well to a lot of talent on how to be on television or if something comes out on them, you show them how to navigate trouble or what could possibly be career ending.

Yeah. One of the things listen, as a writer, you learned early on you need multiple strings of income. And so I was having a level of success, but I want a greater success, and so one of the things that I started doing was media training and artists development. And so what most people don't know is, and you hear about it when you hear about the glory days of Motown or the golden years of Hollywood, how the studios will prepare the stars on being stars, or how the record companies would prepare the artists on how to present themselves and how to talk to the public. And so it went away for a long time, but there were several record companies that started to reinvest in their artists and shout out to Karen Jackson, who at the time was an EMI and then Motown. She was somebody who really saw the need to work on some of her artists, and so they became a major client of mine. And on the faith based side, I started to help artists like Kiara Sheard and Tasha Cobbs and Forever Jones before Doe broke out to become a solo singer, and I was working with jazz artists and R and B artists, and then I had a whole crew of Hollywood stars that would not do major media appearances without begetting them together. And so Sherry Sheppard was a friend of mine and also a client and so like the we met at Doctor Bobby Jones. Funny enough, I used to do a artists in the Treatment Price a year in Las Vegas, and Sherry was a big reader of my column. She came up to me in the hallway one day. It was like, Hey, I know you don't know who I am, but I'm a big fan of your work. And I was like, oh, you're the little black actress on all the big white sitcoms. Of course I know you. And we became friends.

Yeah. One of the things listen, as a writer, you learned early on you need multiple strings of income. And so I was having a level of success, but I want a greater success, and so one of the things that I started doing was media training and artists development. And so what most people don't know is, and you hear about it when you hear about the glory days of Motown or the golden years of Hollywood, how the studios will prepare the stars on being stars, or how the record companies would prepare the artists on how to present themselves and how to talk to the public. And so it went away for a long time, but there were several record companies that started to reinvest in their artists and shout out to Karen Jackson, who at the time was an EMI and then Motown. She was somebody who really saw the need to work on some of her artists, and so they became a major client of mine. And on the faith based side, I started to help artists like Kiara Sheard and Tasha Cobbs and Forever Jones before Doe broke out to become a solo singer, and I was working with jazz artists and R and B artists, and then I had a whole crew of Hollywood stars that would not do major media appearances without begetting them together. And so Sherry Sheppard was a friend of mine and also a client and so like the we met at Doctor Bobby Jones. Funny enough, I used to do a artists in the Treatment Price a year in Las Vegas, and Sherry was a big reader of my column. She came up to me in the hallway one day. It was like, Hey, I know you don't know who I am, but I'm a big fan of your work. And I was like, oh, you're the little black actress on all the big white sitcoms. Of course I know you. And we became friends.

John and John really, John really will say that like, yeah, that line, go ahead, and she laughed.

John and John really, John really will say that like, yeah, that line, go ahead, and she laughed.

And we had changed information and we became friends. And so whenever Shery would do appearances when she was co hosting the View, sometimes whenever topics and stuff she wanted to work through, she'd bring me on to help her figure that out. If she had to go do a promo run for a movie project or something, she'd have me come and help her finessial sound bites and stuff. And so what I did not realize then was that it really was setting me up for my life as a producer. It was now it was teaching me how to get the best out of people. It was teaching me how to connect with people so that they could be their best And so when I was so prior to this executive producer run with Sherry, I had done a bunch of consulting, producing for some awards shows and some specials. I had both produced and directed some episodes TV ones Uncensored. But the executive producer role is you're the boss. You know, you hire your fire, you have one of the final says on creative. You're leading the team. And so there were people when Sherry said I will only go on this journey with John that was looking like how did he get the leap fro of all those people? And you know, how is he in this position? And the truth of the matter is the late great Bill Getty, who helps create the view with Barbara Walters, he helps mentor me through this process of going on this executive producer journey along with Twitch. He was at Ellen, along with Heather Gray who was at the Talk, and along with my dear friend Kat mackenzie who's at GMA three. But Bill says something to me, He said, John, Throughout the course of my career, I've seen celebrities give their hairdressers executive producer credits their Dog Walkers executive producer credits. He said sometimes crazy celebrities would sometimes want to give people EP credits just to put money in their pockets so they wouldn't have to pay them their salary directly. He said, But you have a superpower here. There's nobody who knows Sherry as good as you do. There's nobody who's going to get the performance out of her the way that you will because of that relationship. And you, guys are going into a situation where people who need to learn her and you're almost like the Sherry whisperer. He says, that's an invaluable asset. So he said, despite the fact that you know this genre, despite the fact that you're great with people, you're going to be a great leader, and you're really going to help produce this wonderful content. If they were just paying you for the relationship alone, he said, it's worth every time. And it really shifted my perspective walking into this space, and it prepared me for a lot of what I was going to encounter as we were embarking on the journey of the Sherry Ship.

And we had changed information and we became friends. And so whenever Shery would do appearances when she was co hosting the View, sometimes whenever topics and stuff she wanted to work through, she'd bring me on to help her figure that out. If she had to go do a promo run for a movie project or something, she'd have me come and help her finessial sound bites and stuff. And so what I did not realize then was that it really was setting me up for my life as a producer. It was now it was teaching me how to get the best out of people. It was teaching me how to connect with people so that they could be their best And so when I was so prior to this executive producer run with Sherry, I had done a bunch of consulting, producing for some awards shows and some specials. I had both produced and directed some episodes TV ones Uncensored. But the executive producer role is you're the boss. You know, you hire your fire, you have one of the final says on creative. You're leading the team. And so there were people when Sherry said I will only go on this journey with John that was looking like how did he get the leap fro of all those people? And you know, how is he in this position? And the truth of the matter is the late great Bill Getty, who helps create the view with Barbara Walters, he helps mentor me through this process of going on this executive producer journey along with Twitch. He was at Ellen, along with Heather Gray who was at the Talk, and along with my dear friend Kat mackenzie who's at GMA three. But Bill says something to me, He said, John, Throughout the course of my career, I've seen celebrities give their hairdressers executive producer credits their Dog Walkers executive producer credits. He said sometimes crazy celebrities would sometimes want to give people EP credits just to put money in their pockets so they wouldn't have to pay them their salary directly. He said, But you have a superpower here. There's nobody who knows Sherry as good as you do. There's nobody who's going to get the performance out of her the way that you will because of that relationship. And you, guys are going into a situation where people who need to learn her and you're almost like the Sherry whisperer. He says, that's an invaluable asset. So he said, despite the fact that you know this genre, despite the fact that you're great with people, you're going to be a great leader, and you're really going to help produce this wonderful content. If they were just paying you for the relationship alone, he said, it's worth every time. And it really shifted my perspective walking into this space, and it prepared me for a lot of what I was going to encounter as we were embarking on the journey of the Sherry Ship.

So so good, and you have been walking with Sherry Shepherd for a number of years in a four way to some of the shows.

So so good, and you have been walking with Sherry Shepherd for a number of years in a four way to some of the shows.

She was a call host.

She was a call host.

On The View.

On The View.

Well, and now you two she if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong. I think she made a promise like John, when I get my talk show, you're coming with me.

Well, and now you two she if I'm not mistaken, correct me if I'm wrong. I think she made a promise like John, when I get my talk show, you're coming with me.

Yeah. So you know, Shary I had a very unique relationship because when Cherry was approached to join The View, she had agents, she had managers and all that stuff. She said she was praying and she asked, God, I want to talk to somebody who's not on my payroll, and I really want to get objective advice from them. And literally, I was in Chicago. I was doing a speech at Burrell Communications. I was out shopping, walking down Michigan Avenue. Phone rings and Sherry I answer it, and she told me about her offer to join the View and we talked about it, and that particular year it didn't happen because they brought Rosie O'Donnell on the show and they didn't want to add a second co host. Fast forward about eight months later, Sherry started guest co hosting on the View again. The whole Rosie and Elizabeth blow up happens, and then all of a sudden, they're looking to bring Sherry on the show again as a permanent co host well her team at the time. The negotiations didn't go very well and ABC took their offer back from her, and Sherry called me and she cried, she's really upset, and I coached her on how I thought she could resurrect the deal. I basically told her, I need you to call Bill Gaddy. I need you to share his heart, your heart with him and tell him why the financials the mathe' mathing. And so she did exactly as I said. Bill Gatty told her, if you take this deal, the rest of the money's going to come, and she said, those were the exact words I had said to her, So it was almost like God was using him to confirm what I said. The deal happened, and the rest is history, and Sherry's never made another major decision in the entertainment industry again without talking to me. So that set the foundation of our relationship. When she went into guest hosts for The Wendy Williams initially in twenty and nineteen, Cherry said, Hey, can you come in and help me in addition to you just helping produce me, and my approach to the questions, I want you to come and help write the show, helped me structure the show, and so I came in. I helped write her monologue for the top of show, you know, helped her with the guests and things like that. What most people don't know is this particular company had offered Cherry a deal in two thousand and nineteen to embark on a talk show journey, and things didn't work out. The pandemic didn't happen, and so twenty twenty one, Sherry happened to be in New York City. She was filling in at the View that week for somebody who was out all week, and she got a call to come in and fill in for Wendy again. This was the season which Wendy didn't have. Everybody was guest hosting that particular season, and Sherry called and said, do I really want to do this? This is something I should do. And I said to her, Well, don't look at it like you're going back to co host this time. How about go in and do a five day pilot shore America. What the Sherry Shepherd Show would look like. You've been taking all these meetings people are uncertain about the market. They want panel shows. Let's show them that you can do a single host show and that you can own this space. And she said, well, I'll only do it if you come and do it with me again. I came in five shows. I helped her write the shows, you know, and it was a tough time. We're coming out of the pandemic. There are all these testing and protocols, and we had to sit in the hotel for hours and build out this show. And we helped her hand pick each of the guests and the segment that she did. And by the end of the first week, the ratings were through the roof. The research was great, and everybody was saying, this should be the Sherry Show. And so Sherry came to me and said, I know you're talking to one of the news agencies about coming on as a contributor. I know you're off for another cable show, and I know this big company's talking to you about a podcast. What would it take for you to walk away from everything that you have going on to come on this journey with me? And I said, well, I got to pray about it first, and so I came back to her the next day and I said, listen, come on this journey with you. If I at this title, if I have these responsibilities, and if they pay me my money. And she said, cool, I won't have a deal unless you have a deal. And Sherry called our team and said, listen, until John's dealer is done, don't send me a contract. And she also had an offer so she could either do a sitcom or she could do a talk show. Shit options. And she said, I'm only doing the talk show and John is a part of it. She says, because I serve it up. This is his vision. He's the one who made it look good. And so my deal was fin only done. And you know, it's been an interesting journey. I wouldn't have I wouldn't necessarily walked away from as much as I had going on to do this with anybody else. But in hindsight, it's really been a blessing. And I think it's a blessing because this whole opportunity has been ordained by God.

Yeah. So you know, Shary I had a very unique relationship because when Cherry was approached to join The View, she had agents, she had managers and all that stuff. She said she was praying and she asked, God, I want to talk to somebody who's not on my payroll, and I really want to get objective advice from them. And literally, I was in Chicago. I was doing a speech at Burrell Communications. I was out shopping, walking down Michigan Avenue. Phone rings and Sherry I answer it, and she told me about her offer to join the View and we talked about it, and that particular year it didn't happen because they brought Rosie O'Donnell on the show and they didn't want to add a second co host. Fast forward about eight months later, Sherry started guest co hosting on the View again. The whole Rosie and Elizabeth blow up happens, and then all of a sudden, they're looking to bring Sherry on the show again as a permanent co host well her team at the time. The negotiations didn't go very well and ABC took their offer back from her, and Sherry called me and she cried, she's really upset, and I coached her on how I thought she could resurrect the deal. I basically told her, I need you to call Bill Gaddy. I need you to share his heart, your heart with him and tell him why the financials the mathe' mathing. And so she did exactly as I said. Bill Gatty told her, if you take this deal, the rest of the money's going to come, and she said, those were the exact words I had said to her, So it was almost like God was using him to confirm what I said. The deal happened, and the rest is history, and Sherry's never made another major decision in the entertainment industry again without talking to me. So that set the foundation of our relationship. When she went into guest hosts for The Wendy Williams initially in twenty and nineteen, Cherry said, Hey, can you come in and help me in addition to you just helping produce me, and my approach to the questions, I want you to come and help write the show, helped me structure the show, and so I came in. I helped write her monologue for the top of show, you know, helped her with the guests and things like that. What most people don't know is this particular company had offered Cherry a deal in two thousand and nineteen to embark on a talk show journey, and things didn't work out. The pandemic didn't happen, and so twenty twenty one, Sherry happened to be in New York City. She was filling in at the View that week for somebody who was out all week, and she got a call to come in and fill in for Wendy again. This was the season which Wendy didn't have. Everybody was guest hosting that particular season, and Sherry called and said, do I really want to do this? This is something I should do. And I said to her, Well, don't look at it like you're going back to co host this time. How about go in and do a five day pilot shore America. What the Sherry Shepherd Show would look like. You've been taking all these meetings people are uncertain about the market. They want panel shows. Let's show them that you can do a single host show and that you can own this space. And she said, well, I'll only do it if you come and do it with me again. I came in five shows. I helped her write the shows, you know, and it was a tough time. We're coming out of the pandemic. There are all these testing and protocols, and we had to sit in the hotel for hours and build out this show. And we helped her hand pick each of the guests and the segment that she did. And by the end of the first week, the ratings were through the roof. The research was great, and everybody was saying, this should be the Sherry Show. And so Sherry came to me and said, I know you're talking to one of the news agencies about coming on as a contributor. I know you're off for another cable show, and I know this big company's talking to you about a podcast. What would it take for you to walk away from everything that you have going on to come on this journey with me? And I said, well, I got to pray about it first, and so I came back to her the next day and I said, listen, come on this journey with you. If I at this title, if I have these responsibilities, and if they pay me my money. And she said, cool, I won't have a deal unless you have a deal. And Sherry called our team and said, listen, until John's dealer is done, don't send me a contract. And she also had an offer so she could either do a sitcom or she could do a talk show. Shit options. And she said, I'm only doing the talk show and John is a part of it. She says, because I serve it up. This is his vision. He's the one who made it look good. And so my deal was fin only done. And you know, it's been an interesting journey. I wouldn't have I wouldn't necessarily walked away from as much as I had going on to do this with anybody else. But in hindsight, it's really been a blessing. And I think it's a blessing because this whole opportunity has been ordained by God.

Absolutely, was it tough to have that conversation with Shrey because she's your friend, Like that was a tough conversation, Like Sharry, I'll come, but I gotta have this title.

Absolutely, was it tough to have that conversation with Shrey because she's your friend, Like that was a tough conversation, Like Sharry, I'll come, but I gotta have this title.

I gotta get paid. This mine, I gotta do this.

I gotta get paid. This mine, I gotta do this.

Like you're always good at having tough conversations.

Like you're always good at having tough conversations.

You weren't nervous, you know what. I think maybe ten years ago would have been nervous. Maybe six years ago i'd have been nervous. Let me say the mind space I was in in twenty twenty one when we had this conversation, I would never faced as much rejection as I had in my life until I walked away from being a writer in a radio personality to live my dreams in television. The truth of the matter is, and I'm not speaking out of the turn, It's widely reported and times Up and moments like that have really kind of shown that the television business and entertainment and hole is still really controlled by a bunch of very old white men, and sometimes people of color and diverse people aren't always the flavors of the month. And so I went through a phase where I would go in and meet with the executives and they like, you're amazing, You're so great, but you're broad and I don't know what to do with you. Why I'm broad because I wouldn't study broadcasting, and so doing me what you did with Tom burg Rock or doing me what you did with Regis filming, or do with me what you did with my white count of parts that seemed to get all the jobs. And during this particular phase when I'd have these meetings and stuff, it felt like only black NFL players and black comedians were getting the jobs, and so it was a tough place to come down to me and somebody else. And then the one they caught the football got the gig, or they say we're looking for Michael Strahan type, then they just hire Michael Strahan. And the one time I met him, I was like, can you stop taking every job so somebody else can work? And he laughed. And so all that was going on, and then the pandemic hit and nobody was working, and I really took the pandemic and did some self work. I really tried to empower myself and better myself and really connecting with people who were enriching and encouraging, and somebody who was so pivotal and keeping me in carriage doing that season my life with somebody you've had on the show. Doctor J Barnett just a good brother and has a really great gift of being able to pour into people right in the time that they needed. And so by the time twenty twenty one came around, I had heard Robin Roberts do an interview where she said optimism is a muscle that gets stronger put the practice, and something about her saying that shifted me, because they say, if you do something for twenty eight days, it becomes normal for you. And so I decided I'm going to try twenty days of optimism because I want to make that my new norm. And so literally, every day, starting in May of twenty twenty one, I woke up with this blind anticipation that some good news was coming my way. I woke up every day just I would pick up my phone to see if it was a text message or an email. I would check out voicemail to see if it was a job offer. I believe that something good was coming in my way, coming my way. And the first few days it was silly. I'd wake up with this smile on my face. Yeah, I go looking for these messages. But I did it until it became comfortable. It became my norm. And so by the time Sherry and I are having this conversation, which is November of this year, there have been so many great things that had happened that summer leading up until this point, and so I was so confident and what God was about to do in my life and what I was manifesting by my own goodwill and my own optimism, that I was so comfortable having this conversation because I knew I had options and if I was going to go on a journey that I knew wasn't gonna be comfortable for me, that I was walking with some people that didn't want me to be there, and that I was gonna have to catch the bullets that Cherry would never see. That I needed to be able to do it with the cushions of knowing when I leave here, I have this title, my bank account, I have this amount of money, and all the other elements will work together, because I need to have those things to make up for what I'm losing in some mental mind space. Because it's a lot that you take on and go on a journey like this.