Work in Progress with Sophia BushActress Lili Reinhart lit up the small screen as Betty Cooper on the CW hit series Riverdale, but her off-screen work is just as bright. In addition to her acting career, she's a producer, author, advocate, and entrepreneur.
The busy multi-hyphenate joins Sophia to chat about launching her own production company, the pros and cons of social media, dealing with anxiety and depression, and how her struggles with acne led to her new skincare brand, Personal Day.
Hey, friends, it is a weird time to be making content, certainly from here in Los Angeles, California. This wonderful episode with Lily we actually recorded a few weeks before the fires, and now it's up and we won't be discussing it obviously on this episode since it hadn't happened yet. But I just wanted to make sure that everyone knows there are so many incredible resources and groups that you can support. I've actually got a really wonderful mutual aid list in a highlight on my Instagram stories and we will put it in the show notes as well. If you have a heart for the people and places that make La so wonderful and special, please consider visiting that and supporting our city. Love you all, I hope you're staying safe. Welcome to work in progress high WIF Smarties. Today we are joined by someone I have been a fan of for such a long time. I am so impressed, and I so admire the way that she carries herself, the things she's willing to talk about, the ways she's willing to sent her really human experiences in a world that doesn't always want to do that. And she happens to be brilliant, stunning, an entrepreneur, a producer, an incredible actor, and an author. Today's guest is none other than Lily ryan Hart. You likely met Lily portraying Betty Cooper on the CW drama series Riverdale. Can't wait to talk to her about our high school experiences on the cedeb. She has worked on incredible films from Hustlers to Chemical Hearts, and she recently launched her own production company. On top of all of this incredible success, Lily released a book of poet in twenty twenty titled Swimming Lessons, and her book explores themes like young love, anxiety, depression, fame, heartbreak. These are the kinds of things she's really heart forward about discussing with her audience. She really welcomes folks in to talk about everything from insecurity to body dysmorphia to depression. And I really think she is doing such an incredible service to the world with the conversations that she chooses to have and the tenderness with which she chooses to have them. And I'm really excited for all of you to hear today's conversation because that tenderness carries through this episode as well.
Enjoy.
Well.
First of all, it was so much fun to get to see you last.
Week of this. I just loved that me too.
Yeah, I've admired your work and the way that you use your platform and the things that you choose to talk about for such a long time, so I'm thrilled you're here too.
Yeah, yeah, I was really happy. I days of events, I kind of am always going why did I say yes to this?
All day long?
Because I just I just have the social anxiety, so I have to push, really push myself to leave my house and go to those things. But yeah, but I'm always I'm always usually happy that I do, and then I'm there, so I always walk away. I'm like, okay, it was like the fear of going was much worse than the actual thing.
Yeah, the anticipatory anxiety is often worse for me than the experiential anxiety. But it doesn't mean I don't have it. I can try to talk myself out of it the whole time, but yeah, it doesn't leave my body till I get to the thing and I run into people that I've been excited to meet or I see friends, and then I'm like, what was I so freaked? Out.
Wow. Yeah, it's thee I mean, there is like because it's not just go to a party. It's like you're hiring people and you're having to look good and like get the freaking glam photo and make sure you are in a social mood or whatever. And I don't know, it's just it's not like going to a regular party. There's just like it feels like work to me. Yeah, so it's like, ultimately I'm going to work in a way.
Totally, it is absolutely work. And I also giggled because I'd had to go to something.
Before and.
The thing I went to earlier to see some friends. As I was leaving, I got caught in like one of those moments of just la rain. So by the time I got back across town to see all of you guys, i'd gotten wet, I was in velvet. I had like a cool hairtuk moment happening. Yeah, And then by the the time I got to our event, I looked at the photos and I was like cool, I just looked like I gently electrocuted myself.
Oh.
It was like this moment where I was like, you kind of just gotta let it go. Like I don't know, no, one.
No one would have ever known.
You're very sweet. But it was like this very funny moment where I was like, am I gonna let the fact that like I'm a Frisbell now make me go home? Or am I just going to go see my pals? And I was very bad that I came.
To see every You looked so lovely and there was no one would have ever see, No one ever would know, I never know, No one knows, right. I had to have be like safety pinned, like the I did a beauty con in November and the tailor accidentally took the buttons off my sleeves, so we had to like safety pin them, and who gives a shit? That's yeah, you know, it's like a little bit like, oh this sucks, and you're rushing out the door while it's happening and like safety pitting things. But I've had some red carpet moments like that a few times, and that always is it doesn't help the anxiety.
My best friend in college split her pants at a party. We were really we were having a great night. It turned into like a dance off moment. Everything was great, and then she forgot how inflexible. Said pair of pants was and split them, and I happened to have safety pins in my bag because I was coming to this thing from class, And ever since, I've always made sure to carry a couple of safety pins in a clutch when I go out to something, just in case it happens to someone else. Yeah, Oh, I feel you on the safety pinage there.
Yeah, I've definitely had an entire dress fully break, like and it's like, what I mean some of these things, I just I'm like, I got to give this over to did God here, Like there's really nothing I can do in this moment at the end of the day. It's like a red carpet that no one but me will like ever really remember totally. So yeah, stuff like that where I'm like, actually, no one but me is actually fully paying attention to like me in this moment, If that makes sense. Maybe that's a stupid thing to say when you have like fans who actually are very much paying attention. But I guess I'm like, I'm going to hold on to the things that go wrong and no one else is going to really notice them exactly. And if I look back, if I look bad on a carpet, the only person that that's hurting is ultimately and so.
One's really going to care. Yeah, but it doesn't lessen the experience. But I'm so I love that we get to talk about these things, honestly, because I feel like when I started working in TV, nobody wanted to talk about anxiety. Everyone was like, you're so privileged, how dare you talk about stress or whatever? And it's like, I actually think it's quite refreshing to know that everyone is human. I'm really curious for you. I normally dive in with this question, but we we started in the present. I want to know a little bit about your childhood because I think it's really interesting to sit down with people who our audiences know generally from a body of work. And I want to know if if your version of yourself today got to sit down with your eight or nine or ten year old self, would you see the through line from what she was really interested to what you do now? Did you always want to be a performer or did this sort of all come out of the ether?
No, it was really I think in my bones, and I always think it was a little bit written in the stars because I never had really a backup plan and I never wanted one, and that's a bit hard to tell your family who's never No one in my family was in this field, and no one was arts and to pursue it from Bay Village, Ohio. It was just sort of a far off dream, seemingly so it was a big, big dream for kind of a small town and to have no connections. It was sort of like, Okay, sure, dream big. And I was never told not to. But I absolutely came into the world liking to entertain people and be funny and goofy around my family, and weirdly though, was shy and had social anxiety, like to the point where when I was very young didn't want to go to birthday parties. I didn't want to be I was nervous to be around I guess the other kids, but more so I think it was like nervousness to be away from my mother. It was very attached to her. But within my family and friends, I was always wanting to perform and be silly, and I grew up making videos on a camera for myself that I would show my family, forcing them to watch. You know, these probably not very entertaining videos, but discovering windows movie maker when I was thirteen or something and editing together my own little movies and adding music to them and making my sister do it with me, and every time my friends came over, we would be like, let's make it. It was like, let's make a video. And I think that seems to be quite common with a lot of you know, actors. I find did that as a kid, so that's it seems to be kind of a common thing. But there was definitely always that desire to perform and be creative. And yeah, I mean if I sat down with my little ten year old self, it would be it would be like, yeah, I'm still you. I'm still this kind of shy, and it's interesting. I've grown up and I'm not I don't love this, but like I've almost turned into instead of like shy, I fear that sometimes it can come off as more of like a Larry David version of myself, where it's a little bit like, uh, maybe I come off as a little cold because of how introverted I am, Whereas I feel when I was younger and I was introverted, it was like, oh, she's shy. Like it's very easy to point to a kid who's introverted and say, she's shy, and when you're older, especially even in high school, maybe I was projecting. But I think I maybe was seen as kind of a bitch because I was shy, and because I was an actor trying to be an actor in this small town. So it kind of gave the illusion of Oh, who does this girl think she is? And she's but I really like I would try to put myself out there, but ultimately I was. I felt shy, but when people gave me a chance, I would be excited and try to be warm. But ultimately I think as I've gotten older, I'm like, I've just soured with age, but I've just kind of I guess I can come off a little bit like a little Larry Larry David in me. I'm like a twenty eight year old Larry David. Woman.
That's great.
There's things to work on, for sure. I mean it's a little to hear. I was given that comparison the other day, and I was a bit like, oh is this this am? I like, I love him and I love kurby enthusiasm, but I'm like to be compared as a human being to like a grouchy old man. I don't know, but ultimately we'll grow from it and be like, Okay, so we've maybe got to like work on the warming up around around people seeming more warmth.
I also think there's a really odd thing to a lot of fame so young. For sure, you know, I would imagine for you, you know, you got cast on Riverdale at nineteen, like.
I was.
I think i'd been twenty one for I don't know, fifteen days or something when I got to Wilmington to do One Tree Hill, Like your prefrontal cortex isn't done developing until you're twenty six. Like it's a lot, you know. I remember feeling like I could really prove that I was an adult. And looking back on it, especially with all of us girls going back to start rewatching the show together.
That's fun.
We're so shocked. We're like, we were children. We were babies. Who let us out of the house, who let us do this, who put us on a set, who told us to pretend we knew what we were doing so we wouldn't embarrass ourselves. We were children. We should have just been like, we have no idea what we're doing.
And I'm sure there was no essence of media training back.
Then oh no, I thought if someone asked you a question, you had to answer it.
You were thrown to the wolves, and we like we all are because no one ever, no one ever gives you any sort of rule book, And when I think maybe they should, it would have been helpful to have like some basic outlines, but I guess you kind of you're almost like, let me look to my elders, and the people playing our parents on the show were happy to give advice and stuff like that, but you really are like trial by fire, yep, don't mess up.
And now a word from our sponsors who make the show possible. What was that like for you? Like, when you think about that season of life, do you immediately think about what the audition process was like? Do you think about the kind of WHOA, what's happening moment when the show is this huge hit and suddenly you have all this on your shoulders? What kind of comes up there?
It's like a big deep breath to think about in a way, wow, because it was seven years, and it was from nineteen to twenty six, and I'm twenty eight now and having time away from it, and I always knew doing it is so hard and being in It is really challenging to fully move and vacate your life that I'm trying to start for myself in la And I remember not even knowing that the show filmed in Vancouver until I was on the phone with my lawyer and he's saying, those shoots in Vancouver, and I din't was like, where is that? So it was a I don't think I'd ever even been through Canada, So it was it was just this pick yourself up out of this chapter of your life and PLoP you down here and figure it out. And it is kind of figured out. And I think people expect people are always shocked. They're like, where did you stay? Like where were they putting you up? And it's like, no, you relocate your life.
Yeah, they don't put you up. They don't know. They don't pay for anything.
They don't pay for anything. They'll give you a relocation fee and that lasts. Yeah, that's last.
Day, and yeah that gets you your first plane ticket and maybe if you're lucky, you get to ship your car.
I shipped my car to Washington and then I drove it over the border. But I also like at the time, I remember having to tell my publicist I was like, I actually can't afford you at all? Can we can you? Maybe you just can I pay you once I get paid. And it's sort of like this. It wasn't awkward for me to talk about money, but I didn't, you know. I was like, I've never made money like this before, and I don't have I don't know I had. Maybe I don't know how much money I had in my bank account. Not a lot, but I because I had been acting since I was twelve, but like not making money, so it was I don't have the means to be shilling out now thousands of dollars for a publisherally, and no one really tells you how to deal with that as well, when you're making money so young and given that responsibility, that was also trippy weird. It's a weird thing to move very quickly from struggling financially to being the most financially secure person around you. Yeah, it's a bit of a shift, I think, mentally for a young person in their twenties. And luckily I'm very responsible with money, but it is a weird shift. But I think it was more so for me kind of having to move my whole life to a different country, and yes it was Canada, so we're not moving somewhere crazy far away. It's a three hour flight to la but ultimately finding a new apartment, settling the life there. And then that extends to seven years and it is I look back really fondly, working with wonderful people that I love really dearly and will always hold such a I mean, you know, like you just had a special place in your heart for these people that you were on this journey with that. So few people understand what it's like to just be a part of a television show, and so I understand the privilege in that, like, wow, I'm so lucky I have that experience, because I think it's rare and it's wonderful to be on a show for seven years. It's like a blessing and and I look at it as such absolutely, and although it was hard and had its challenges, I really do see it as it's the reason why I'm sitting in my house and it's I'm you know, was able to then have a production company and do everything else that I did. It was a catalyst for my whole career, and so yeah, it absolutely changed my life and was the biggest pivotal moment in my career thus far.
So totally yeah, And I think it can be all of those things. You know. It can be something you're so grateful for. It can be something that was incredibly trying. I think, you know, like my heart just swells hearing you talk, because I know what it is to love a group of people and also to be completely isolated and in some senses trapped with a group of people because you do. It's it's sort of like my girlfriend and I were talking about this the other day. She was in La visiting and we hadn't seen each other in a while. I just realized, I'm saying this. I mean one of my girlfriend's from my show, not like my girlfriend, like my romantic party. Must clarify for the audience. They're gonna be like, oh, is she talking about girlfriend? Yes, platonic girlfriend. And and you know, she was out from the East Coast and we were just talking about some things and I said, I said, I have this really crazy kind of visual. It's like when you see those videos of bald eagles plucking salmon up out of the river and it's so majestic, but it's like it's like eagles pluck you out of your life and then they just drop you in a nest and you're like, where am I? Where is water? What is this? And you know everyone's like, aren't you so excited? And you're like, yes, but also I think I'm terrified. Yeah, and it's so surreal, so I.
Really And then add having a Twitter a having a Twitter into that equation, I really not And it's or any form of social media, and it's horrible. It's way way scarier just because no one. There's just no one to tell you that you're about to be hated on so hard just existing and what the fuck do you do with that?
You know, it's it's a really weird thing because we didn't have that when our show first started. But what existed in the vacuum were the tabloids and they're still around, but they can't completely create a narrative of who you are, because you get to be who you are in whatever way you choose to. I'm social.
Yeah.
One of the really interesting things for us was like, oh, we're all just going to be cast as these archetypes and then that's who you're going to want us to be, by the way, forever, not even when it doesn't really even get to change when we can have our own social media because you made so much money clickbaiting us as these people, yeah, for ten years before it existed, that you're desperate for more of it. And that's an interesting thing too, because, like Hillary always used to say that, she's like, dude, the behind the scenes drama on our show is so extra, like literally, I don't know how true this is for yours, but like everyone on our show dated everyone on our show, And she's like, thanks for taking the tabloid bullets for the rest of us, babe, And I'm like, yeah, then thanks.
You and you yeah, yeah, I mean yeah now.
Because it's like we're kids, and what are you going to do? It's like it's literally they put you back in high school.
Yeah.
I would watch some of the things I would just see because we're all online about you guys and your world, and I was like, God, I love so much of what you're getting to do and the ways you're at least appeared, you know, these incredibly strong female friendships. And I would kind of see the desire for people to clickbait your lives. And I don't know if you want to talk about it or not, and you can absolutely say now and then we'll just cut it. But it's like when I saw just as the Internet surfaces things on your explore page like you and Cole falling in love as like young kids on a show, I was like, oh my god, I hope someone protects these babies because I've been through it and I don't know. It's in one way, I'm so excited you guys got to be yourselves in your own space and there wasn't a vacuum that people wanted to fill for you.
But also.
The fact that you can have your own identity online then opens you up to being one singular human. It's eving feedback from tens of millions of people a day and not normal and it's not sustainable. And I know it's hard for me, and like, you know, I don't know what am I fifteen years older than you or something like, I can't imagine how hard it is for you, how hard it was, so I don't know how did you make sense of it?
Well? I also can't imagine living in a world where you are not in charge of your own public narrative at all. Like that, I mean, I can't We both can there's.
It wasn't great.
I can't imagine and to feel even that I have a platform of my own. That's even now I'm sort of sometimes you know, it still is. I think about social media a lot, especially lately, and I think I think it's really bad. Yeah, I think at the end of the day, I wish I could have been someone who just never had to have it, because I think ultimately it's caused a lot of stress and anxiety for me. On the flip side, when you're starting out in your career, this is how you build your career. These days, people need to see who you are. International fans need to be able to connect and follow you. But yeah, I mean suddenly you're subjected to not that you're not going to be anyways, because regardless of whether you have an account or not, people will comment on you forever. So it's like, either you have a social media or you don't, people are going to still talk about you. But to be with my own eyes, viewing like as an almost an audience member, what people have to say about you or your life or your relationship, or you what you're wearing on a carpet, it's just it really does what this idea that whoever you're seeing on the other end of social media is just this figure that's moving around and you're seeing, oh they're there now, Oh they're in New York. Now, oh they're in LA and they're doing this thing and they look beautiful, and now maybe they don't look so good, and now all these other things, and it really is I say, give about this the other night, like, no wonder we as a society, I feel, are dealing with such unhappiness right now and anxiety, Like the levels of anxiety in young people and depression and suicide rates are just out of control. And it's because we sit on our little black boxes that being an iPhone and look at this narrative that everyone is choosing to show the world. It's what narrative are you showing? You're obviously not going to show the bad parts. Yeah, and this is not revelatory. I'm not saying anything revelatory by any means, but it's I think it's a good reminder because I think when I set on my Instagram, I feel Instagram. I'm becoming very distant from Instagram because I feel that that is the most fake form of social media currently TikTok for me, I feel is more authentic. You see people telling real stories. It doesn't feel like they're trying to present a front. I feel they're genuinely people that I see or follow are presenting this is what's going on in my life, this is what sucks. And then you see camaraderie usually in the comments of people sharing stories and being there for each other and just being there's this openness about it. Whereas you go on this glossy Instagram and everyone, including myself, is you're writing this image and presenting the prettiest glam photos and this is me with all my friends, or you're just presenting the best you know.
Oh well, and it's interesting because yes, absolutely, you're right, and it's so weird to My friend Kathleen said something the other day that I thought was really wise. She was like, here's my catch up, you know, photo carousel on Instagram. She goes to be clear, this is the highlight reel, but the low lights don't go on Instagram. They go to the group chat. Yeah, And I was like, yeah, because why would you want everybody's opinions on what you're struggling with. They're already so horrible to you on what's going well, you know, so it's very tricky this. It's a constant sort of question I have of what do I want to open up and what do I not? You know, there's so many things I don't share, and in a way, I think privacy is so important, but also when you don't share, there's that vacuum again, so it's like I don't know what it is. And I think that's why, to go back to what I was saying when we first got into the Zoom room together, I really appreciate what you choose to share with people and how intentional it seems you want to be about it, because in a lot of ways, that's something I've been trying to do for as long as I've been on the internet too, And I appreciate that, yes, you'll go to this beautiful event, but be like I was also actually really anxious, and last week I was talking about what it's like to deal with cystic acne or depression or like we aren't paper dolls where everything is perfect. We're actually these three dimensional humans and shit's complicated alas for everyone, and I like that you're willing to discuss it, particularly as a woman in your peer group, particularly as a person who did launch into success on a hit show during social media and not free and then having to figure out how to navigate it. I'm curious how you felt. Was it sort of obvious of course I'm going to talk about the real stuff, or were you ever nervous to say I actually am a person who suffers from depression and anxiety.
Was that.
Was that unnerving or did it feel important? Or maybe it was a little bit of both.
I well, thank you for everything you said, but I don't actually ever really remember stopping and thinking, this is what I'm going to stand for, and you're almost you start kind of having weirdly those conversations when to me, my experience was like when you meet with when you meet with publicists, you start kind of talking about your image and you're sort of for the first time having to think about your image, like I had never had to think about it before. Obviously it's so and now it's like, who do you want? No one. I don't think anyone was directly asking me this, but the subtext was who would you like to be perceived as? Or what would you like to stand for? And I not in a bad way people want to know they were. They're like, let me help you with this narratives of Ultimately, that's literally a PR person, a publicist. It's public relations, and it's how you're relating to the public and how they're going to perceive you. And I think I didn't really have an answer to that. And I was also playing this very seemingly perfect I quite literally the girl next door and playing this girl with energy. I say that because I'm chronically fatigued all the time. Yeah.
Yeah, seven years on a series will do that to you.
Well yeah, but I think just to me, I've since I was so young, have dealt with anxiety and depression, and then as I got older, getting diagnosed with add and then PTSD and then OCD. It's like, I mean, the list goes on, and I think, I don't want to be someone who talks about this chapter of my life once it's over. I don't think that really helps people. And I think I'm in it now. I've talked about this stuff for a while now, so it's like I might as well keep helping if I can, and to be in the position that I'm in now where people may see, oh, look at this great success you've had, and I go, yes, But also, I'm going to be real with you, and I'm not going to come back and talk about how hard this chapter was once it's over, because first of all, what if it's never over, and what if I continue to struggle in the ways that I struggle mentally? Okay, So I don't want to just put my authenticity or openness about my life and my experiences on hold until I feel better. I just don't think that's helping anyone. And ultimately, if I'm going to I don't want to say suffer because that never feels like the right word. But struggle with challenges that millions of other people face, but I get the opportunity to do it in a more public sphere and maybe in a way that people really call, people really call into question how do you feel that way? And that was really difficult for me when I first was stepping into the spotlight and having people basically tell me that I didn't have a right to feel.
And now a word from our sponsors, the idea that you are supposed to wait until you feel better and then reflect on your experience in a way suggests that you need fixing and you don't need fixing, or.
That you need to be quiet until your problems are solved, or in the public eye that unless you have an answer to give people as to how you came out of it, best just keep your mouth shut. And I'm the type of person who thinks, well, to me, it's helpful. It's not fully helpful for me to see someone getting a golden globe and saying keep going, don't give up. I'm like, well, yeah, because you're receiving an award now, and it's like, but how did you feel when you had to convince yourself to keep going? And I think that's way more helpful to someone like me who I find it inspiring when people open up about their struggles as they're happening, and to be able to know, Wow, this person's like really reflecting on their life and being open with the challenges that they're facing now, not what they were facing, which is important, but ultimately I think it just helps you connect to this is a big word, but humanity better because you're saying I'm in it now, I'm struggling now, even if I don't have an answer to give you guys on what to do or how I'm going to get out of this just to let people know that I'm still struggling with XYZ. I think sometimes is enough to make people go, oh, okay, well maybe that makes me feel better to know that someone who I think maybe has all these things. And I would be happy if I had all these things, because ultimately, and this is the whole point is it's not what you have. The most successful person in the world, whoever you want to think of that what success looks like. I'm pretty one hundred percent positive that person struggles and whatever your idea of success is someone who has that struggles. So why do they struggle when they have the things? Because it's not about externally having things. It's I could get and I've realized this, I could get everything I'm looking for in my career because career is a big, hard stress thing for me, and I could say, Okay, I could get the thing that I'm for. But if I got if I got that thing tomorrow, I don't think I would be happy still, Like, I don't think it would just solve every problem because ultimately the issue is internally, yeah, what I'm going through. So giving someone an award, I'm just using awards as an example, because it's like the most clear view of here's success. I'm here around and it's a trophy. It's like a literal trophy of success, and I think a lot of people view that as success. So that's just sort of where I'm coming from. But I think, yeah, I guess my whole point is I need to deal with what's going on on the inside that's making me unable to be happy with the success that I have now, because ultimately, even if I do keep climbing this ladder and reaching more success, I won't be able. I'll still just want to keep climbing the ladder and wanting war. So when isn't enough and you have to be able to receive and receiving something is challenging because I feel, again it's like an external usually an external accolade or an achievement or something externally validating. But ultimately your insides have to match up with that frequency of validation. And if inside you're still going, oh I don't deserve this, or oh I can do better or whatever whatever, it's not going to land and you're not going to be able to accept it. And I want to be in a position where any amount of success could come my way and I can go, oh, I'm happy with this, and I can receive this because I'm resolute in my inner work. I guess I love that.
I think it's really important, particularly as you said, in a career and in an ecosystem inclusive of the world of social media and the business of entertainment. It's so important to figure out how to like your life instead of be constantly worried about what you're not doing. Yeah, and it's not easy, but to get to to get to a point where you realize that that is part of the work. Yeah, I think enables you to begin to widen your periphery and have a healthier experience with your life in general.
Well so yeah, So, like I'm saying this all now having not reached that point.
Yeah, Oh I'm not either, by the way, So yeah, but I but that's important to yeah, to emphasize because I don't I don't have the answer, and I haven't and I'm working on it.
You could say I'm a work in progress. Hey, hey, but ultimately I don't have the answer, and I think it's something that is a journey. They say life is a journey, and apparently it is because you're just constantly evolving as you should be. And I don't think this feeling that I'm striving for this sort of I guess you'd call it inner peace, or the ability to receive, or the ability to see my success as enough. I don't have that yet, and I am working on it, and I'm sure i'll be working on it until the day I don't. But at least if I can keep chipping away at it and keep climbing that ladder of achieving that feeling, that's what's important. I don't have to. You could tell me you'll never fully get there. I'll go, Okay, well that sucks, But at least I'll know that forever I will be trying to feel that piece with my self.
And then you know that you're spending a certain amount of time practicing gratitude, being introspective, being willing to self interrogate. You're not just pac manning around the world. You're in the emotional kind of fiber of it, and that I think is a really noble pursuit, you know, for ourselves, but also for the kind of imprint you want to leave on the world around you.
Well, to me, my thought is Isn't that the whole point?
I think so, because I.
Think the whole point and for me is this is a soul's journey, it's not our body's journey. And to me, I'm like, I'm on this lifetime to level up. I want to become more conscious and raise my consciousness and be aware and be someone that people can live up to as a mentor. And I want to be like the old wise grandmother. I want that, and I think so in order to achieve that, I've got to keep showing and I've got to keep doing this work and I plan on it, and to me, that's so much more. That's so much more of a successful life if I can focus on the internal things than anything external that is also temporary and fleeting and ultimately, whatever you believe, if you believe, and I still don't necessarily know what I believe, but if I think that my soul is going to continue on into another lifetime, that I'll have, like as I say, leveled up in a way, and I can enter this next life with a even higher consciousness and then even more And again I don't know, I'm still figuring out what I believe so far as reincarnation is a scary word, and I don't know if I like that word, but that's more so, I think I like the idea that your soul is kind of just on this forever journey, that even when you aren't here anymore, when your body isn't here, your consciousness keeps going.
And I have a book for you. I'm gonna I'm going to send you a book.
What is it? What is it?
I'll offline you about it, but yeah, I've got to send it to you.
I'm a big I'm a big self help book person's spirituality book person.
What excites me about it is it's because when you said that, you know, the word feels scary, I'm like, I get it. It's why sometimes when the emotion feels big for me, I need to lean into the data or the science. And I think, you know, just some of the laws of physics, you know, energy ones created can never be destroyed, so I can lean on the scientific idea. And this book is a sort of merger of scientific research and spiritual theory, and it's I'm going to send it to you, and I'm excited about it.
I love spirituality books and all that stuff, so I'm very inteh.
I just love the I love learning about us and I it might seem like a weird left turn, but I'm thinking about it because of the way that you want to pursue meaning. And you've talked about mental health certainly, and you've also talked about the pressure that comes for women, but really all I think all young people because of social media and then the expectations, particularly that get put on us when we're on camera. You know, you've spoken about body dysmorphia, you've spoken about acne, and now you've found it a skincare line. And I actually feel, and I guess this is my question, it feels to me like you are figuring out a way not just to like do a beauty product, but to really lean into this space of personal identity and self acceptance that you struggle with. It feels to me like you thought you've thought to yourself, I really struggle with this, and I know so many other young women struggle with this, and other young people struggle with this, and maybe if I solve a problem for myself, I can help other people solve a problem for them.
Pretty dead on, I think that analysis because because I when I'm struggling with something, and I think this is where, to be honest, the openness about my mental health started. Was when I'm struggling with something, I need to share that because then that's how I connect with people, and that's how I feel seen.
Well, you feel less alone, right, yeah, of course.
And I think ultimately when you're struggling, you just want to feel less alone. That's why we see a therapist to be like, tell me I'm not alone, and they're like, I see plenty of it. Yeah, it's like you're not alone ever. But I think I started sharing because I was struggling with acne and my body image and my depression and my anxiety, and and then I just was received a lot of encouragement when I did that, which is amazing and sort of encouraged me to just keep being this open book at least when it comes to these facets of my life. So I was just pretty I mean again, I also had people telling me you don't have a right to feel anxiety, which is the craziest thing I've ever heard, that I don't have. The body image thing was hard and telling, you know, people telling me I don't have a right to feel a certain way about my body because I look a certain way. It's it's I understand. But ultimately this is where advocting steps in. And you have no idea how someone looks at themselves. And I've seen, I'm sure you've seen some of the most beautiful people in the world have the biggest self esteem issues. Yes, And so ultimately you just have no idea what you think is an ideal beauty. Someone has that and they aren't happy with it. Yeah, And for acne in particular, I stepped into this space where you're not supposed to have that, and people around me didn't really have it. Of course, always like the guys always have overren skin and it's annoying. But the women, you know, we're dealing with hormonal acne and the way more makeup than all these things. Yeah. And I have had acne just since I was twelve and thirteen, and it was like manageable acne and then as I but even when I would get this reoccurring assist in the middle of my forehead, which is this bitch is back again. And I remember really hating that my school didn't let us wear hats because I thought to myself, if only could wear a beanie and pull this thing down over my forehead so no one would see this, or if we just turned these fluorescent, awful lights off, maybe no one would notice this crater on my forehead. And so I'm very familiar with the feeling of acne in everyday life and what it can do to you mentally. But then I've also experienced the exacerbated version when I'm literally in front of a camera with said acne on my face and people are literally staring at a screen watching me, and the paranoia around that, and I think I felt really called to because again, I'm like, everything kind of stems from me wanting to. It's not selfish by any means, but I'm like, ultimately, I'm trying to help myself still as well by helping other people so we can all collectively feel better because I want to feel better too. I still have acne, and I want these products that are not going to trigger my acne. So I know that people who have the same issues as I do want that as well. But also important to note that even people who don't have acne and don't deal with this, you want good quality skincare that's not irritating you. Causing any damage that maybe you're not superficially seeing. You want things that aren't stuffed with bad filler ingredients. You just that's also not going to be one hundred dollars. I just think I'm sure we get sent pr boxes of crap, and I in the beginning of my career was like, oh, hell yeah, I'm being sent skincare line after skincare line. I'm going to put this on my face and I absolutely destroyed my skin because I was just trying everything. And I think ultimately I wanted to create a line for anyone, but for with actbi prone and sensitive skin people in mind that they could trust, they could fully trust a skincare line that wasn't going to make things worse. Yes, and to be a safe haven, if you will, And to know that I can top to bottom go to this personal day line and know that if I purchase something, it's going to be free of these bad ingredients.
Yeah, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. I think people often forget we're so pressured to have our skin look a certain way that we forget that our skin is our body's largest organ. You know, would you be like dumping chemical agents on top of your liver all day. No, so you don't want to do it with your skin either, And I think it's I think it's very cool that you lasered in on an area of personal struggle, understood the larger struggle of that area for so many people, and then said I think I can help fix this and maybe do it more holistically and more kindly. And some of the other folks out there are doing it, and I think it's very very cool.
Thank you. I think ultimately I I don't at the end of the day, this job, as much as people would like to tell me that I don't have a right to say, is stressful. Is incredibly stressful and hard. And unless you're in that position, you can't make that judgment. You just can't. And if I'm gonna be in a career that's very stressful. If I have the privilege and opportunity to help other people, absolutely, And I never ever wanted to put my face or name on something. My name isn't even on the brand that created intentionally because if people are saying, hey, do you want to create something, I'm going to go, okay, Well, it has to help people. And also I would love for people to not even know that I'm attached to it, because that's how effective the products need to be. Yes, because I can't would I mean, it would be very embarrassing to make promise that made people's skin worse or caused reactions. And it's been like every day I'm receiving a text message now because the line's been out since the end of October, people who have been using the line for a month now, who are texting me going, I'm getting complimented on my skin for the first time in my life, and that is I just think, Okay, that's why I'm doing this, because I not for truly any other reason than I also wanted this line of like safe skincare, but to help other people in the process. I that has been the most fulfilling. It really is like to receive a text message from people saying my skin is changing because of these products. I just know and deeply empathize with how bad a breakout I make you feel. And to feel that something is in the world now that people are it's positively impacting the way that they're viewing their face when they wake up in the morning is ultimately very very good for my so I think you feel very I feel very warm warm about it. I love that, which is like that's the goal. Yeah.
Absolutely, it makes me think about and I don't even remember where I said it. I feel like you always have your best moment of brilliance when you're not paying attention to yourself. And at some point I was talking about advice I wanted to give to my younger self, and I said that I wanted to say to her, you are allowed to be a masterpiece and a work in progress simultaneously. And I think what you're talking about is exactly that kind of energy where you are trying to be your best self and also make room for the process of being a human. At the same time, you want to have gratitude for everything you've done and still have goals. You want to be able to relish in where you are today and still dream about your future. You know, it's the tension of the both, and I think when you lean into it and choose to be introspective can be so beautiful.
Yeah, and it takes the pressure off, I think, to remind yourself that you are an ever evolving person and yes, you've got you've got time to grow and to change you've got I mean hopefully, but I hope so metaphorically even you've got, you've got time and space to do it. And you don't need to be the best version of yourself by the time you're thirty or by the time you're whatever. I just think to remind it's a gentle We all need that gentle reminder of you are really that ever evolving thing, and that's what life is literally about. So stop trying to stop trying to meet the deadline. There is no deadline of that. It's the whole life's journey.
When you think about that sort of ethos, Is there something and it can be professional or personal, or maybe it's a mix of both. Is there something as you look ahead at the new year that's about to start that really feels like your work in progress right now?
I think lately it's giving myself grace and giving others grace and kind of understanding what that actually means. But to me, I think it's the big one for me has been comparison is the thief of joy, yes, and again that's the social media of it all. Does not help, but to be happy for others when they get their flowers, which is a phrase that I really like, and knowing that there's space for everyone to have that. And I think we're just in this industry that hammers into this competition and if you're not at this certain peak of your success by this certain time, that you've missed the boat or that. I think that something that a lot of people can relate to is obviously you're watching everyone's lives on social media, and so you're comparing yourself to people who have what you want, and if you're not seeing yourself getting it anytime soon, or if you feel that, oh, that's so far away from me, or I'll never achieve that, I think the comparison if you took away if you sat with yourself and took away everybody else's success and sat with your own and were able to focus on how far you've come and what you've achieved without measuring it against other people, yes, I think your satisfaction would be exponentially higher. And so giving myself grace because I know that I'm literally living in a way world that tells me to compare myself to every person that I see.
All the time, and it's horrible.
Yes, Like it's like, just remind yourself of that. That's kind of what that's just what you need give you, give yourself the grace of knowing that that is the world that you're in. And so it's understandable that you feel these things. And I think I've had to just give myself a break and saying yeah, like we get it, Yeah, I get it. I can look at my problems and go, yeah, it makes sense why I feel that way, and then going okay, well, let's try to eliminate then the factors of maybe let's be on social media less. Maybe let's remind ourselves of this phrase, like everyone has room to have their flowers, Let people have that, Let people have their thing, and don't be angry or jealous or covet what other people have. No one is taking away what you could have by getting by getting what they have. No one's taking anything away from you. Exactly. There's room for all of us. It's a big planet, it's a big world. Yep, there's room for us all. And I think that, to me is a big thing. That's in the last half of this year I've been landing on and so I will be carrying that with me into twenty twenty five.
I love that I think that's really wonderful.
Thanks, we'll see.
I also, I kind of think that this making space for that truth and realizing that the narrative that there isn't enough, the idea that scarcity is somehow our destiny as humans. I just think that's one of those lies the patriarchy tells us. So when we are trying to create a more holistic human experience and lean particularly think into generational wisdom, the generational wisdom of women, it's like, oh, we're not we're not doing the scarcity thing that those guys in power told us.
Well, it's the phrase you're too much as a woman.
No, ma'am, And we're not doing that.
That doesn't exist, and that's not bad.
It's someone years ago, when I was we were into the sort of real throes of our of our first big show, said to me, you need to take any person who's ever said to you you're intimidating, say no, you're just intimidated. And I was like, oh, it makes me feel so strong and powerful. So it's all all those lessons I think that we can glean and you know, take with us as we start figuring out how to be these more human, more empathetic people are.
That's a great thing. Whoever said that to you.
Right, it was really good and I was like, oh, tattoo it on my soul.
It's a perspective. It's just a perspective shift, like there's nothing wrong with you. Maybe it's how the other person is perceiving you that's wrong. Maybe maybe that may do that.
Yeah, yeah, well, thank you so much for joining me today. You're just a jem.
Thank you, well, so are you. And I appreciate you offering up a space in which people can feel safe to talk about the things that are not easy. And I think it's rare that people cultivate a space that feels really safe and warm, and you do that really so well and I and I appreciate that because sometimes I walk away from podcasts thinking, oh, this is gonna hurt me in some way, like this is gonna maybe backfire. It's gonna maybe backfire. But I just think definitely not the case here.
So thank you. Yeah, to get to conversationally break bread with people is a supreme privilege.
Uh, thanks for you doing you do it well. Yeah, thank you for having me
