Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends, Today we are joined by someone that I admire so much, that I have cherished for such a long time, and who I think is hands down one of the coolest human beings that I know. Today's guest on Work in Progress is none other than Lena Waithe. You know her as an Emmy winning writer, producer, actor, and the founder of Hellman Grad. She is known for Master of None, The Shy Queen, and Slim. Lena's film credits, TV credits, They just go on and on and on, from winning awards at Sundance to again being Emmy nominated for documentaries, Lina did not come to play. She is an incredible creator in every single sense of the word, which is probably why she was named one of Time magazines one hundred most influential people all the way back in twenty eighteen. She was included on Fast Companies Queer fifty lists in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two. Lena just keeps on winning. Born in Chicago, Illinois, Lena always knew that she wanted to be a television writer and was lucky enough to be supported by her family and along the way discovered that she happens to be a fantastic actor too. I cannot wait to talk to her about her journey, her creativity in every single vertical that it touches, and the ways that she thinks about storytelling and her latest project, her brand new podcast, Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe, which is a love letter to black women in entertainment. She sits down with incredible icons and trailblazers to discuss their creative process, their journey, and how they became the women and leaders and artists that they are today. Legacy Talk really is more than just a series of interviews. It's a documentation of the stories and experiences of women who have shifted narratives, broken barriers, and inspired a generation. I am not surprised that Lena is tackling this latest vertical with the same curiosity and excellence that she brings to every single project. Let's dive in with Lena Waithe. Lena, I'm so happy that you're here today.

Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends, Today we are joined by someone that I admire so much, that I have cherished for such a long time, and who I think is hands down one of the coolest human beings that I know. Today's guest on Work in Progress is none other than Lena Waithe. You know her as an Emmy winning writer, producer, actor, and the founder of Hellman Grad. She is known for Master of None, The Shy Queen, and Slim. Lena's film credits, TV credits, They just go on and on and on, from winning awards at Sundance to again being Emmy nominated for documentaries, Lina did not come to play. She is an incredible creator in every single sense of the word, which is probably why she was named one of Time magazines one hundred most influential people all the way back in twenty eighteen. She was included on Fast Companies Queer fifty lists in twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two. Lena just keeps on winning. Born in Chicago, Illinois, Lena always knew that she wanted to be a television writer and was lucky enough to be supported by her family and along the way discovered that she happens to be a fantastic actor too. I cannot wait to talk to her about her journey, her creativity in every single vertical that it touches, and the ways that she thinks about storytelling and her latest project, her brand new podcast, Legacy Talk with Lena Waithe, which is a love letter to black women in entertainment. She sits down with incredible icons and trailblazers to discuss their creative process, their journey, and how they became the women and leaders and artists that they are today. Legacy Talk really is more than just a series of interviews. It's a documentation of the stories and experiences of women who have shifted narratives, broken barriers, and inspired a generation. I am not surprised that Lena is tackling this latest vertical with the same curiosity and excellence that she brings to every single project. Let's dive in with Lena Waithe. Lena, I'm so happy that you're here today.

I'm so happy I'm doing this is like my first thing of the day.

I'm so happy I'm doing this is like my first thing of the day.

It is I love that, and you know, I just love the that of you. I was trying to tell my producers today. When we jumped on, they were like, how do you guys know each other?

It is I love that, and you know, I just love the that of you. I was trying to tell my producers today. When we jumped on, they were like, how do you guys know each other?

And I was like, I, Michelle Obama is where we met?

And I was like, I, Michelle Obama is where we met?

Is that where we met for the first time.

Is that where we met for the first time.

I think that's where we met. Oh god, social before that, But in terms of meeting, I think was there. Yeah.

I think that's where we met. Oh god, social before that, But in terms of meeting, I think was there. Yeah.

I just remember when like we started getting in the dms, like chatting about things, and I was like, wait a second. I really admire this woman as a storyteller, and I also think I love who she is as a person, Like are we gonna be friends? And here we are and I love it.

I just remember when like we started getting in the dms, like chatting about things, and I was like, wait a second. I really admire this woman as a storyteller, and I also think I love who she is as a person, Like are we gonna be friends? And here we are and I love it.

And also we have a great mutual for an Alex Edelman, like the homie.

And also we have a great mutual for an Alex Edelman, like the homie.

The brother, the best, just the yummiest little bro in the world.

The brother, the best, just the yummiest little bro in the world.

Ever.

Ever.

Yes, I was just like, Okay, So something I find really fascinating about you because we know a lot of people that are multi hyphenits, but you are like you are like a multi hyphen in like an algebra problem like that you just keep stacking pieces of the equation. And when I put my you know, interviewer hat on and started to dig into things about your life, I didn't know. I had no idea that you always knew you wanted to be a writer, like since you were at all? And I ask a lot of the folks who come on the show because people know you as you know, public figure or all the things you are. I always like to see if you could meet your nine year old self, if you would see who you are today in that child. And I'm like, well, obviously you did, because you always knew you wanted to be a writer. So like, can you tell me where your interests and your love of storytelling started? Do you have a moment where you knew or was it always there?

Yes, I was just like, Okay, So something I find really fascinating about you because we know a lot of people that are multi hyphenits, but you are like you are like a multi hyphen in like an algebra problem like that you just keep stacking pieces of the equation. And when I put my you know, interviewer hat on and started to dig into things about your life, I didn't know. I had no idea that you always knew you wanted to be a writer, like since you were at all? And I ask a lot of the folks who come on the show because people know you as you know, public figure or all the things you are. I always like to see if you could meet your nine year old self, if you would see who you are today in that child. And I'm like, well, obviously you did, because you always knew you wanted to be a writer. So like, can you tell me where your interests and your love of storytelling started? Do you have a moment where you knew or was it always there?

I mean, I think I grew up watching a lot of TV as a kid. Being in the nineties, it was sort of like a Heyday for TV. I think from young people you know what to be tgif you know, Full House, Family Matters, step by Step, Charles in Charge, Small Wonder Out, Empty Nest, you know. And then but also like there were so many great shows with all black casts, like Obviously A Different World, which was one of the biggest influences on me and the Cosby show. I mentioned Family Matters, Fresh Prince of bel Air was really Dopehood, which was actually a show that Robert townsended, which is sort of like his Cosby show, and so there were just Wayne's brothers. I remember it was a really cool show. I at least loved watching The Living Color coming up. So there was just a shmortgage board of like TV shows and entertainment with really amazing talent. And I was really inspired and influenced by the kind of storytelling that was happening. I remember Demolition Man, like you know, we always say before Black Panther, it was a little demolish Man, which Robert Townsend did with the blonde hair and like the superheroes in their own neighborhood trying to save their neighborhood from evil doers. And we have had all this stuff, and I think I just kind of saw that and thought that that was normal and there was nothing odd about that. And so but I also grew up watching Oprah win for every Day, and like you know, and after you know, it's like being in Chicago knowing that's where she filmed the show was yet really a source of pride for us, and I just think it was a really fruitful time and and for me to be a kid growing up at my grandmother's house with a single mom, you know, older sister, I you know, we were last ki kids, so we would come home and watch television and cook for ourselves and wait for our parents to get home from work. And that was actually the time where I think we were becoming ourselves. Also watching music videos a ton like being people watching the box, you know what, you could call and request the music video. You know, that was sort of our TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. We really were. It was very analog. I remember I could walk to the Blockbuster, you know, and I ended up working there and renting movies. And that's how I remember renting Hoop Dreams and you know, seeing parents is burning like on vhs and discovering these things and these treasure trows of footage and documentation of stories and people and these character even watching documentaries thinking about who dreams like is like a real person, But he felt like like a character, like somebody I knew, being from Chicago, trying to play basketball, trying to make his family proud. These are just things that I kind of saw and could relate to, it, could understand, And I think that was really what the Seeds were playing it in terms of wanting to tell stories that felt vulnerable and felt honest.

I mean, I think I grew up watching a lot of TV as a kid. Being in the nineties, it was sort of like a Heyday for TV. I think from young people you know what to be tgif you know, Full House, Family Matters, step by Step, Charles in Charge, Small Wonder Out, Empty Nest, you know. And then but also like there were so many great shows with all black casts, like Obviously A Different World, which was one of the biggest influences on me and the Cosby show. I mentioned Family Matters, Fresh Prince of bel Air was really Dopehood, which was actually a show that Robert townsended, which is sort of like his Cosby show, and so there were just Wayne's brothers. I remember it was a really cool show. I at least loved watching The Living Color coming up. So there was just a shmortgage board of like TV shows and entertainment with really amazing talent. And I was really inspired and influenced by the kind of storytelling that was happening. I remember Demolition Man, like you know, we always say before Black Panther, it was a little demolish Man, which Robert Townsend did with the blonde hair and like the superheroes in their own neighborhood trying to save their neighborhood from evil doers. And we have had all this stuff, and I think I just kind of saw that and thought that that was normal and there was nothing odd about that. And so but I also grew up watching Oprah win for every Day, and like you know, and after you know, it's like being in Chicago knowing that's where she filmed the show was yet really a source of pride for us, and I just think it was a really fruitful time and and for me to be a kid growing up at my grandmother's house with a single mom, you know, older sister, I you know, we were last ki kids, so we would come home and watch television and cook for ourselves and wait for our parents to get home from work. And that was actually the time where I think we were becoming ourselves. Also watching music videos a ton like being people watching the box, you know what, you could call and request the music video. You know, that was sort of our TikTok and Instagram and Facebook. We really were. It was very analog. I remember I could walk to the Blockbuster, you know, and I ended up working there and renting movies. And that's how I remember renting Hoop Dreams and you know, seeing parents is burning like on vhs and discovering these things and these treasure trows of footage and documentation of stories and people and these character even watching documentaries thinking about who dreams like is like a real person, But he felt like like a character, like somebody I knew, being from Chicago, trying to play basketball, trying to make his family proud. These are just things that I kind of saw and could relate to, it, could understand, And I think that was really what the Seeds were playing it in terms of wanting to tell stories that felt vulnerable and felt honest.

Hmm. I love that. Yeah, you know you're making me realize too that we Yeah, I mean we grew up in this moment where not to say everything was like perfect or fixed, but where art was growing in such a way, these messages of these stories were growing in all of these beautiful ways. More and more people were getting to be represented. We're getting to be on TV. Like I I studied journalism in college because of Oprah.

Hmm. I love that. Yeah, you know you're making me realize too that we Yeah, I mean we grew up in this moment where not to say everything was like perfect or fixed, but where art was growing in such a way, these messages of these stories were growing in all of these beautiful ways. More and more people were getting to be represented. We're getting to be on TV. Like I I studied journalism in college because of Oprah.

Wow, you know, like I didn't know that.

Wow, you know, like I didn't know that.

I you will love this. When I was a kid, it would take just long enough for me to get home from school, and like when the years that I was like eight nine, my mom was picking me up at that time, and I sat her down and I was like, Mom, nothing happens in the last period anyway, And if you pick me up after school ends, I get home at three fifteen, and I missed the first fifteen minutes of Oprah, and I learned way more from Oprah than I learned at the end of the day at school. So I think you should pick me up at two forty five. And my mom was like, first of all, are you going to be a lawyer? Who do you think you are? And I'm not negotiating with my young child to leave school early so you can come home to watch Oprah.

I you will love this. When I was a kid, it would take just long enough for me to get home from school, and like when the years that I was like eight nine, my mom was picking me up at that time, and I sat her down and I was like, Mom, nothing happens in the last period anyway, And if you pick me up after school ends, I get home at three fifteen, and I missed the first fifteen minutes of Oprah, and I learned way more from Oprah than I learned at the end of the day at school. So I think you should pick me up at two forty five. And my mom was like, first of all, are you going to be a lawyer? Who do you think you are? And I'm not negotiating with my young child to leave school early so you can come home to watch Oprah.

And I was like, she's my class though, and look at your guy.

And I was like, she's my class though, and look at your guy.

Yeah, and it's like, I don't know, I think about that, and I think we were really we were so lucky to have her as women that are passionate about the world around us, as storytellers, and we were really lucky to have all these shows and all these creators that you're referencing. We I worry for today's kids, like anything that isn't you know, traditional, I'll do the air quotes meaning like tip represented by power is suddenly like weaponized as political and I'm like, maybe it was actually just dope when everybody got to be on TV, like when we just told all kinds of different stories about all kinds of different people. And the nineties really were this like blossoming moment for a lot of that.

Yeah, and it's like, I don't know, I think about that, and I think we were really we were so lucky to have her as women that are passionate about the world around us, as storytellers, and we were really lucky to have all these shows and all these creators that you're referencing. We I worry for today's kids, like anything that isn't you know, traditional, I'll do the air quotes meaning like tip represented by power is suddenly like weaponized as political and I'm like, maybe it was actually just dope when everybody got to be on TV, like when we just told all kinds of different stories about all kinds of different people. And the nineties really were this like blossoming moment for a lot of that.

Absolutely. I mean when you look back at like, you know, CNN does like a study about the decades and the nineties one is super obviously fascinating because that was my nostalgia. But it's true, it was. It was very a fruitful time, you know, and we're taking risks and music was really dope, you know, and TV and and and I think but also I think the Oprah Winfrey Show was something that wow, boy, did we take that for granted? I think at the time, just in terms of seeing a black woman on television being curious and being empathetic and being open to learning something. You know, she remember the that was like the light bulb moment. That's what it became, you know, famous, you know on the show, just the idea of a light bulb going off above. Yes, oh, I've never thought of it that way before. That's such an interesting and powerful thing to say. I'm telling shem Oprah, who we would think knows all she was as expressing the people. Even though you think, you know, I'm the leader of the pack, I'm still learning things with you. You know, I'm still growing with you.

Absolutely. I mean when you look back at like, you know, CNN does like a study about the decades and the nineties one is super obviously fascinating because that was my nostalgia. But it's true, it was. It was very a fruitful time, you know, and we're taking risks and music was really dope, you know, and TV and and and I think but also I think the Oprah Winfrey Show was something that wow, boy, did we take that for granted? I think at the time, just in terms of seeing a black woman on television being curious and being empathetic and being open to learning something. You know, she remember the that was like the light bulb moment. That's what it became, you know, famous, you know on the show, just the idea of a light bulb going off above. Yes, oh, I've never thought of it that way before. That's such an interesting and powerful thing to say. I'm telling shem Oprah, who we would think knows all she was as expressing the people. Even though you think, you know, I'm the leader of the pack, I'm still learning things with you. You know, I'm still growing with you.

Yes, and to make learning something beautiful and something to aspire to.

Yes, and to make learning something beautiful and something to aspire to.

Book club like yeah, like her gathering people to talk about a book and with the author. I remember like she had Tony Morrison sent at the table with all these women and like them talking about her book and her literature and asking her questions. On television. You know, that was a real, a real thing and and wow, I just you know, I miss it sometimes.

Book club like yeah, like her gathering people to talk about a book and with the author. I remember like she had Tony Morrison sent at the table with all these women and like them talking about her book and her literature and asking her questions. On television. You know, that was a real, a real thing and and wow, I just you know, I miss it sometimes.

I do too. I wish we could go back. I ate up life class. When she was like, let me do this show. That's like the highlight reel of all my shows.

I do too. I wish we could go back. I ate up life class. When she was like, let me do this show. That's like the highlight reel of all my shows.

I was like, give it, yeah, or masterclass or master class on own. You don't remember that Maya Angelou episode, the Dian Carrol episode, the Woopie Goldberg episode. Yeah, And I think, but I think Oprah did a master class to her, So I think she did so maybe probably just a way for us to kind of learn how these giants became who they were, but also showing you that giants started out not unlike you, you know, yeah, listen to their inner voice and walked in their purpose. I think that's the big thing Oprah was always really good about, was really sort of telling us, like, the person that you think is the smartest in the world, the most accomplishing the world, the wisest, began you know in the way that you did. You know, Yeah, the house and unsure and if they had were dealing with self doubt and not knowing and someone eventually finding their voice, and so it make sure you sit at home and go, oh, well, they can do it. You know why not?

I was like, give it, yeah, or masterclass or master class on own. You don't remember that Maya Angelou episode, the Dian Carrol episode, the Woopie Goldberg episode. Yeah, And I think, but I think Oprah did a master class to her, So I think she did so maybe probably just a way for us to kind of learn how these giants became who they were, but also showing you that giants started out not unlike you, you know, yeah, listen to their inner voice and walked in their purpose. I think that's the big thing Oprah was always really good about, was really sort of telling us, like, the person that you think is the smartest in the world, the most accomplishing the world, the wisest, began you know in the way that you did. You know, Yeah, the house and unsure and if they had were dealing with self doubt and not knowing and someone eventually finding their voice, and so it make sure you sit at home and go, oh, well, they can do it. You know why not?

I yeah, do you feel like that's what you were gleaning in those hours that that kind of incredible time you got between me and you got home from school and you know the adults got home. Were you beginning to see, oh, any kind of insecurity or very human fear I might have? You know, we all asked that question, like, well, who am I to do this? Do you think the lesson was? These people all did it, so I'm going to try to do it? Like how did you take the leap?

I yeah, do you feel like that's what you were gleaning in those hours that that kind of incredible time you got between me and you got home from school and you know the adults got home. Were you beginning to see, oh, any kind of insecurity or very human fear I might have? You know, we all asked that question, like, well, who am I to do this? Do you think the lesson was? These people all did it, so I'm going to try to do it? Like how did you take the leap?

I mean, well, I think I wasn't thinking about it in that way at that time. I think that's what really great entertainment content, you know, media does where I think those particularly speak about the master classes that she would do in a particularly May Angelo. That one really sticks out of my head. But I think I just was taking it in. I think I was taking it in and I was very aware of who my Angelo was and continues to be in our world, even though she may not be earthside anymore. I think it was just important to hear her speak in the talk, and and I didn't even understand the weight of it then, because I think in those moments, that's not what you're doing. And I think that's why, you know, I think it's not just about images, it's about what are people saying, what's sort of being conveyed, and because it'll hit people later. Yeah, so it's important just to you know, just to take it in.

I mean, well, I think I wasn't thinking about it in that way at that time. I think that's what really great entertainment content, you know, media does where I think those particularly speak about the master classes that she would do in a particularly May Angelo. That one really sticks out of my head. But I think I just was taking it in. I think I was taking it in and I was very aware of who my Angelo was and continues to be in our world, even though she may not be earthside anymore. I think it was just important to hear her speak in the talk, and and I didn't even understand the weight of it then, because I think in those moments, that's not what you're doing. And I think that's why, you know, I think it's not just about images, it's about what are people saying, what's sort of being conveyed, and because it'll hit people later. Yeah, so it's important just to you know, just to take it in.

Just Yeah, you were, you were having nice afternoons like vibeing, watching music videos, and now you look back and you're like, oh, I was, I was taking a master clas ta. Yeah.

Just Yeah, you were, you were having nice afternoons like vibeing, watching music videos, and now you look back and you're like, oh, I was, I was taking a master clas ta. Yeah.

We saw Rosie Rosie O'donald Show two every day at three o'clock. For us, Oprah was on at nine am and then in the evening and afternoon Rosie was at the afternoon like three o'clock. Yet talk shows were a thing, like it was a it was a big deal. They still are now, but I don't know, like we used to watch like the talk shows all the time. Oh I loved them.

We saw Rosie Rosie O'donald Show two every day at three o'clock. For us, Oprah was on at nine am and then in the evening and afternoon Rosie was at the afternoon like three o'clock. Yet talk shows were a thing, like it was a it was a big deal. They still are now, but I don't know, like we used to watch like the talk shows all the time. Oh I loved them.

And now a word from our sponsors who make the show possible. What were your early days like when you when you first moved out to LA Like, what what was the experience like trying to begin to break into the industry.

And now a word from our sponsors who make the show possible. What were your early days like when you when you first moved out to LA Like, what what was the experience like trying to begin to break into the industry.

Well, we had some thing called the semester in LA that Columbia College. I don't know if I think they still do it. I hope they, But yeah, where I got to spend a semester, you know, about twelve weeks, you know, in LA and maybe many people were doing it. I was sort of inspired. But the advice I got was make it your last semester, because if you go and then come back to Chica, I got like, you kind of lose some of the contacts that you made. So I took that advice and just got all my credits lined up and do what I had to do and spend my final semester in Los Angeles, which was the best advice ever because I stayed out here and then went back to that and then came back. But I didn't I didn't miss a step. And the truth is I didn't know anybody out here, you know, I didn't have any contacts, you know. I just wanted to meet people and get wanted to get to know folks and wanted to learn and grow. And that was really I think one of my strong points was that I really wanted to just meet folks to see what they were getting into and what they were doing, and if it aligned with what I was doing, maybe we should kind of link up and hang out. That's just kind of how I've always operated, and which is a different type of operator, you know, and not about what can I get from you, but rather oh, you're doing the same thing. You know, we can maybe share information and see if we can help each other. And I still rate that way. I think that's sort of how I like to move. And yeah, and the thing is is like I think LA is like any other place, you kind of find your tribe slowly but surely. And then it was important for me to also hunker down and really hone my crafts. And I think that's how the people can get lost in Los Angeles about going to things, going to events. A lot of panels were happening when I was first out here, which were amazing. They're not as prevalent now, but it was good just to go network and meet people and stuff. So that's what I was really doing. It was like networking and then eventually trying to find my voice and get finding jobs I'll find in my voice and all that kind of stuff. And I do think the it's changed a bit now because people the world is smaller. You can kind of go online and kind of build an audience and build the following but I think what's sort of happening is there's not that time to home one's voice, and I think that's really where people are able to shine. Like Quinta has a voice, you know, Yes, you know Brian, the guy who does an English Teacher, he has a voice, yes, and it's very distinctive. And I think that, to me is what I hope people are understanding. When you're watching English Teacher, when you're watching Avid Elementary. They both happen to be shows that take place in schools and dealing with teachers, but they couldn't be more different. And really it's a great example to show folks, is like, that's what it means to be a writer. You both can do it in a similar setting, but they both can feel really different. And that's because both of those show creators who happen to be in the shows as well a multi hyphens, they have really found their voice. So that's why you know when you're watching Abit, you know when you're watching English Teacher, not just because you o they're different shows, but because the voices are so unique. And I think that's why you both of them for different reasons. And then if you put on twenties or the shy those that's specific to my voice. And so I always try to tell writers. I'm like, don't follow the marketplace, no such thing, and don't try to be don't try to hit. It's really about what is your voice? What do you have to say? Say? What is specific about you? What's a movie that only you can write? That's why I think this has kind of gone away. But there was a time where people are so afraid somebody was going to steal their idea. Yeah, wives tell about the matrix. You know, it's like I don't want my I'm like, it's impossible, Like you can take you know what I'm saying. It's like the idea, but they can't execute it the way you wult it. So you know. And also I always tell people like, if you're afraid somebody's gonna take a idea, you got to start seeing coming up with a whole bunch of more ideas. You know, it's only got one. Then I don't know. I love that. What do you think.

Well, we had some thing called the semester in LA that Columbia College. I don't know if I think they still do it. I hope they, But yeah, where I got to spend a semester, you know, about twelve weeks, you know, in LA and maybe many people were doing it. I was sort of inspired. But the advice I got was make it your last semester, because if you go and then come back to Chica, I got like, you kind of lose some of the contacts that you made. So I took that advice and just got all my credits lined up and do what I had to do and spend my final semester in Los Angeles, which was the best advice ever because I stayed out here and then went back to that and then came back. But I didn't I didn't miss a step. And the truth is I didn't know anybody out here, you know, I didn't have any contacts, you know. I just wanted to meet people and get wanted to get to know folks and wanted to learn and grow. And that was really I think one of my strong points was that I really wanted to just meet folks to see what they were getting into and what they were doing, and if it aligned with what I was doing, maybe we should kind of link up and hang out. That's just kind of how I've always operated, and which is a different type of operator, you know, and not about what can I get from you, but rather oh, you're doing the same thing. You know, we can maybe share information and see if we can help each other. And I still rate that way. I think that's sort of how I like to move. And yeah, and the thing is is like I think LA is like any other place, you kind of find your tribe slowly but surely. And then it was important for me to also hunker down and really hone my crafts. And I think that's how the people can get lost in Los Angeles about going to things, going to events. A lot of panels were happening when I was first out here, which were amazing. They're not as prevalent now, but it was good just to go network and meet people and stuff. So that's what I was really doing. It was like networking and then eventually trying to find my voice and get finding jobs I'll find in my voice and all that kind of stuff. And I do think the it's changed a bit now because people the world is smaller. You can kind of go online and kind of build an audience and build the following but I think what's sort of happening is there's not that time to home one's voice, and I think that's really where people are able to shine. Like Quinta has a voice, you know, Yes, you know Brian, the guy who does an English Teacher, he has a voice, yes, and it's very distinctive. And I think that, to me is what I hope people are understanding. When you're watching English Teacher, when you're watching Avid Elementary. They both happen to be shows that take place in schools and dealing with teachers, but they couldn't be more different. And really it's a great example to show folks, is like, that's what it means to be a writer. You both can do it in a similar setting, but they both can feel really different. And that's because both of those show creators who happen to be in the shows as well a multi hyphens, they have really found their voice. So that's why you know when you're watching Abit, you know when you're watching English Teacher, not just because you o they're different shows, but because the voices are so unique. And I think that's why you both of them for different reasons. And then if you put on twenties or the shy those that's specific to my voice. And so I always try to tell writers. I'm like, don't follow the marketplace, no such thing, and don't try to be don't try to hit. It's really about what is your voice? What do you have to say? Say? What is specific about you? What's a movie that only you can write? That's why I think this has kind of gone away. But there was a time where people are so afraid somebody was going to steal their idea. Yeah, wives tell about the matrix. You know, it's like I don't want my I'm like, it's impossible, Like you can take you know what I'm saying. It's like the idea, but they can't execute it the way you wult it. So you know. And also I always tell people like, if you're afraid somebody's gonna take a idea, you got to start seeing coming up with a whole bunch of more ideas. You know, it's only got one. Then I don't know. I love that. What do you think.

From this vantage point, because like, there's a lot of life, there's a lot of work. When you talk about finding your voice. If a young artist is listening to this and it's like but how do I do that? Like from here? How how do you think you would say to somebody, this would be my my small slice of a roadmap for you. How do you encourage people because you're such a great mentor as the writer and producer that you are. I wonder do you have advice you like to give people on that?

From this vantage point, because like, there's a lot of life, there's a lot of work. When you talk about finding your voice. If a young artist is listening to this and it's like but how do I do that? Like from here? How how do you think you would say to somebody, this would be my my small slice of a roadmap for you. How do you encourage people because you're such a great mentor as the writer and producer that you are. I wonder do you have advice you like to give people on that?

Yeah, I try to tell people to watch a bunch of TV. Watch you know, classic movies. Yeah, that's really important. I think I always getting nervous when someone tells me they want to write for TV, but don't watch it. You'd be surprised people like the show. Have you seen this? No? I haven't seen that. You haven't seen it. And it's always sort of like, it's important to know what's working. Yeah, important to know what's good. I like that, and know what you don't like if you watch the shows. I don't like this show? Why not? Why does it? Boy you? Why doesn't I hold your attention? You know? And then like I really love this show. Why do you love the show? Like the characters? What do you like about the characters?

Yeah, I try to tell people to watch a bunch of TV. Watch you know, classic movies. Yeah, that's really important. I think I always getting nervous when someone tells me they want to write for TV, but don't watch it. You'd be surprised people like the show. Have you seen this? No? I haven't seen that. You haven't seen it. And it's always sort of like, it's important to know what's working. Yeah, important to know what's good. I like that, and know what you don't like if you watch the shows. I don't like this show? Why not? Why does it? Boy you? Why doesn't I hold your attention? You know? And then like I really love this show. Why do you love the show? Like the characters? What do you like about the characters?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Are coming back to it every week. And so the thing is is like, if you want to create a show that people love good to know what shows are out there that people are loving and why and reading scripts and you know, talking to writers you know that maybe have written something that you like. There's a sort of idea that I can do it all by myself or I don't need somebody else to give me feedback, or I don't mean like I still give people want my stuff to read and give me feedback and people I respect people that I appreciate their opinion, and I get notes and I incorporate that and the work gets better. And so I think that's something that people don't often see. It is sort of think, oh, I just sit down and write something and give it to something. It's like now it goes through a bunch of stages of you know, getting feedback, doing a table read, doing another past, getting feedback again, and then reading it again and trying it again and giving it to someone. And so I think there's this desire this quick, you know, microwave, nuke and let's go, and it's just no, I mean, I just I have a you know, I sit down with Debbie Allen for the finale of Legacy, talk with Mena Waite, and I'm not like giving away anything too much. But I asked her, I said, how long did it take you to get Almostade made? How long? She was like eighteen years, No, eighteen years.

Are coming back to it every week. And so the thing is is like, if you want to create a show that people love good to know what shows are out there that people are loving and why and reading scripts and you know, talking to writers you know that maybe have written something that you like. There's a sort of idea that I can do it all by myself or I don't need somebody else to give me feedback, or I don't mean like I still give people want my stuff to read and give me feedback and people I respect people that I appreciate their opinion, and I get notes and I incorporate that and the work gets better. And so I think that's something that people don't often see. It is sort of think, oh, I just sit down and write something and give it to something. It's like now it goes through a bunch of stages of you know, getting feedback, doing a table read, doing another past, getting feedback again, and then reading it again and trying it again and giving it to someone. And so I think there's this desire this quick, you know, microwave, nuke and let's go, and it's just no, I mean, I just I have a you know, I sit down with Debbie Allen for the finale of Legacy, talk with Mena Waite, and I'm not like giving away anything too much. But I asked her, I said, how long did it take you to get Almostade made? How long? She was like eighteen years, No, eighteen years.

I thought, I was like, you telling this story means she's going to say like ten years, eighteen years.

I thought, I was like, you telling this story means she's going to say like ten years, eighteen years.

Eighteen years and we and I told her, I said, my school went on a field trip to go see Almistid Wow and obviously directed by the Gracia the spiel Work, who obviously I worked, put me in my first feature, Ready to Play one.

Eighteen years and we and I told her, I said, my school went on a field trip to go see Almistid Wow and obviously directed by the Gracia the spiel Work, who obviously I worked, put me in my first feature, Ready to Play one.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But that is something people should understand, is that, like some things that are really good, and sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes something comes and it's like it's pretty quick, like it happens you're like, oh man, okay, we get this. But I just really want people to understand that anything worth getting made and getting done and worth having, often times it's gonna take a be it's gonna take a while, it's gonna take patience, it's gonna take you know, it ain't gonna be the first ride. It's gonna be the thousand. You know, you're still needling and you're still trying to make it right. And that's what it is to be a creative. That's what it is to be a writer. Just because it's never done. You know, you can always make it better, you can always make it stronger. And also now mind you as me, every note you get is right for you, you know. But I think that's what knowing your voice is that knowing you're not saying no because you don't want to do the work or because you're afraid to go in and see. But maybe if you say no because you know what, like, that's not the story I'm telling. I get the note, but that's not the story I'm telling. If I do that something else, you know, it's like, but that note enhances the story I'm telling and makes the story I'm telling even stronger and clearer. So I appreciate that. And that's that's the big thing too. It just takes you know, it just takes time to learn you know, what notes make sense of what notes don't. But the truth is, because you got to leave your ego at the door, you know. In a while people, Me and Gina talked about this on episode Legacy Talk. She's like, a lot of people give me their material because they want me to tell them it's great. And she was like, when I have to get from my material. She's like, you wanted me just to tell you the truth? Yes, And she was like, and I did, and you came back with the new draft and she was like, it's so rare for people to do that. And I was surprised. I say it is. She's like, oh yeah, you'll get somebody down from them again, and so oh yeah, this happened to me too, Like you know, so that's why I kind of start to figure out ways. I'm like, how can I because everybody you know has a has a thing, and the truth is they just really need real, honest feedback. And a lot of people don't want honest feedback. They want to be told this was great and I wish you well and I hope this becomes a big hit versus you know, this kind of slowed down from me in the second act, or these two characters wort of sound the same, or I got lost here at the end. Folks don't want to hear that because it's sort of like, oh, snap, okay, I got to go back to the drawing board, or I got to like reoutline this, or I need to you know, go back in because that's where the writing begins, is the rewriting.

But that is something people should understand, is that, like some things that are really good, and sometimes it takes a while, and sometimes something comes and it's like it's pretty quick, like it happens you're like, oh man, okay, we get this. But I just really want people to understand that anything worth getting made and getting done and worth having, often times it's gonna take a be it's gonna take a while, it's gonna take patience, it's gonna take you know, it ain't gonna be the first ride. It's gonna be the thousand. You know, you're still needling and you're still trying to make it right. And that's what it is to be a creative. That's what it is to be a writer. Just because it's never done. You know, you can always make it better, you can always make it stronger. And also now mind you as me, every note you get is right for you, you know. But I think that's what knowing your voice is that knowing you're not saying no because you don't want to do the work or because you're afraid to go in and see. But maybe if you say no because you know what, like, that's not the story I'm telling. I get the note, but that's not the story I'm telling. If I do that something else, you know, it's like, but that note enhances the story I'm telling and makes the story I'm telling even stronger and clearer. So I appreciate that. And that's that's the big thing too. It just takes you know, it just takes time to learn you know, what notes make sense of what notes don't. But the truth is, because you got to leave your ego at the door, you know. In a while people, Me and Gina talked about this on episode Legacy Talk. She's like, a lot of people give me their material because they want me to tell them it's great. And she was like, when I have to get from my material. She's like, you wanted me just to tell you the truth? Yes, And she was like, and I did, and you came back with the new draft and she was like, it's so rare for people to do that. And I was surprised. I say it is. She's like, oh yeah, you'll get somebody down from them again, and so oh yeah, this happened to me too, Like you know, so that's why I kind of start to figure out ways. I'm like, how can I because everybody you know has a has a thing, and the truth is they just really need real, honest feedback. And a lot of people don't want honest feedback. They want to be told this was great and I wish you well and I hope this becomes a big hit versus you know, this kind of slowed down from me in the second act, or these two characters wort of sound the same, or I got lost here at the end. Folks don't want to hear that because it's sort of like, oh, snap, okay, I got to go back to the drawing board, or I got to like reoutline this, or I need to you know, go back in because that's where the writing begins, is the rewriting.

Right. Well, what I what I'm hearing a lot of is that you have to have you know, on the one hand, you're talking about knowing your voice and your vision, so you have to be able to, as you said, say that's not the story I'm telling. That is additive to the story I'm telling. And it like it's the both and it's like the improv right, It's like, on the one side, you really got to know what it is you want to talk about, and on the other side, you really have to be willing to self interrogate. You have to be willing to not let your ego lead. And I think, especially in the world of the constant refresh right, like the thumb drag on Instagram, everybody wants new, more, now, now, now, and the patience that this shit takes is not for the fate of heart, not at all.

Right. Well, what I what I'm hearing a lot of is that you have to have you know, on the one hand, you're talking about knowing your voice and your vision, so you have to be able to, as you said, say that's not the story I'm telling. That is additive to the story I'm telling. And it like it's the both and it's like the improv right, It's like, on the one side, you really got to know what it is you want to talk about, and on the other side, you really have to be willing to self interrogate. You have to be willing to not let your ego lead. And I think, especially in the world of the constant refresh right, like the thumb drag on Instagram, everybody wants new, more, now, now, now, and the patience that this shit takes is not for the fate of heart, not at all.

And well, I think that's what I really want people to understand is that it's a long journey, it's a marathon, and there is no finish line. Yeah, there's no there there. And then the biggest suff ice trying to get people all the time, particularly writers who want to necessarily write, you know, whether you for television, or for film or playwrights. Table read, Table read, table read, Get actors, get people, get writers, get friends, get neighbors, get anybody that's willing to come to read your work out loud, because I think a lot of times when you're alone and you're writing these lines, they feel like Shakespeare. But then when someone comes in and tries to say it, they can't get through it because it's really no, that's not kind to the actor. You know, it's it's fun the writer, but the actor has a hard time saying. And I always say, sometimes writers write lines that don't feel comfortable in actors'.

And well, I think that's what I really want people to understand is that it's a long journey, it's a marathon, and there is no finish line. Yeah, there's no there there. And then the biggest suff ice trying to get people all the time, particularly writers who want to necessarily write, you know, whether you for television, or for film or playwrights. Table read, Table read, table read, Get actors, get people, get writers, get friends, get neighbors, get anybody that's willing to come to read your work out loud, because I think a lot of times when you're alone and you're writing these lines, they feel like Shakespeare. But then when someone comes in and tries to say it, they can't get through it because it's really no, that's not kind to the actor. You know, it's it's fun the writer, but the actor has a hard time saying. And I always say, sometimes writers write lines that don't feel comfortable in actors'.

Mouths yes and so.

Mouths yes and so.

And that's why for me, when I'm sitting down, I say the line after I try to say it, I try to like act like I'm both characters and act it out and go, oh shit, I'm stumbling over this, or I'm having a hard time or this isn't And that's why I think what I've been really grateful for is that I really try to write dialogue that sounds conversational, that sounds quy, and that can feel like music. And so that's what kind of we're pretty tough on our cast on the shire because I want my voice to shine through, and so you can't ad lib, you know, and they don't get to throw stuff in even a man a huh or this, and that it throws off the rhythm. And so we always tell the actors, I'm like, it's you know, for for me and looking, we're gonna we are season seven next year, and so it's like people get used to a certain rhythm or a certain way that these characters or a certain where I'm trying to find a character, So I need to make sure every line, every word that comes out like we're establishing them. We're trying to figure out who this character is. And so we really do need actors to really say the lines and to rock with us. And that means it's even more responsibility on us as the writers in that table reads, you know, like, hey, is that line too hard for you to say? Okay, cool, we'll adjust it, we'll figure it out. We'll try to try to hide exposition here. So yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a lot of back and forth. It's trial and error. It's it's listening, it's paying attention. But again, it's about finding my unique voice. And it goes from me watching everybody from Aaron Sorkin's work to Matthew Winer's work, you know, Judit mad Men, watching watching Gray's Anatomy, you know Seanmes. You know, it's a big influence as well. So it's really about every writer has their own obviously watching Spike Lee movies all the time, but it's a very specific rhythm to his work. And and yeah, and that's that's why I always tell people, I'm like, watch the Greats, watch the Ghosts, listen to what they've done, and then figure out what your pattern is, what your what your tone is, what you're what your pacing is, rather than you know, mimicking, which we all kind of start out doing.

And that's why for me, when I'm sitting down, I say the line after I try to say it, I try to like act like I'm both characters and act it out and go, oh shit, I'm stumbling over this, or I'm having a hard time or this isn't And that's why I think what I've been really grateful for is that I really try to write dialogue that sounds conversational, that sounds quy, and that can feel like music. And so that's what kind of we're pretty tough on our cast on the shire because I want my voice to shine through, and so you can't ad lib, you know, and they don't get to throw stuff in even a man a huh or this, and that it throws off the rhythm. And so we always tell the actors, I'm like, it's you know, for for me and looking, we're gonna we are season seven next year, and so it's like people get used to a certain rhythm or a certain way that these characters or a certain where I'm trying to find a character, So I need to make sure every line, every word that comes out like we're establishing them. We're trying to figure out who this character is. And so we really do need actors to really say the lines and to rock with us. And that means it's even more responsibility on us as the writers in that table reads, you know, like, hey, is that line too hard for you to say? Okay, cool, we'll adjust it, we'll figure it out. We'll try to try to hide exposition here. So yeah, it's it's it's it's it's a lot of back and forth. It's trial and error. It's it's listening, it's paying attention. But again, it's about finding my unique voice. And it goes from me watching everybody from Aaron Sorkin's work to Matthew Winer's work, you know, Judit mad Men, watching watching Gray's Anatomy, you know Seanmes. You know, it's a big influence as well. So it's really about every writer has their own obviously watching Spike Lee movies all the time, but it's a very specific rhythm to his work. And and yeah, and that's that's why I always tell people, I'm like, watch the Greats, watch the Ghosts, listen to what they've done, and then figure out what your pattern is, what your what your tone is, what you're what your pacing is, rather than you know, mimicking, which we all kind of start out doing.

Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. Well, and I love the way you talk to about the rhythm of something because I know what it's like as an actor to say, look, the shape of these words don't fit in my mouth. It Can we tweak this? Can we can I use this word instead of this one? And I think if there's a willingness to find it, essentially what you're talking about, it's like linguistic choreography exactly. You know, you're making this musical the dance number has to work, and dialogue can be that beautiful if you really have leaned into the work.

Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. Well, and I love the way you talk to about the rhythm of something because I know what it's like as an actor to say, look, the shape of these words don't fit in my mouth. It Can we tweak this? Can we can I use this word instead of this one? And I think if there's a willingness to find it, essentially what you're talking about, it's like linguistic choreography exactly. You know, you're making this musical the dance number has to work, and dialogue can be that beautiful if you really have leaned into the work.

Mm hmm.

Mm hmm.

I love the way you frame all of that.

I love the way you frame all of that.

I mean it's like we look at Mike Nichols stuff, you know what I mean, It's like it's all very you know, specific, and every word is intentional and so that's why it's like there's no throwaway lines or words or glances, and you know, everything has meaning and so there can always be a conversation after saying, oh, this isn't work. And also, but I get real, like if we say a word twice, it's like, always say this word twice in the sentence, like that was five different work, or let's take that a second time you say that out is really I mean, you can get very you know, in the weeds about it. And that's my favorite kind of stuff. We like to geek out about it and make sure a scene really feels like its own little symphony.

I mean it's like we look at Mike Nichols stuff, you know what I mean, It's like it's all very you know, specific, and every word is intentional and so that's why it's like there's no throwaway lines or words or glances, and you know, everything has meaning and so there can always be a conversation after saying, oh, this isn't work. And also, but I get real, like if we say a word twice, it's like, always say this word twice in the sentence, like that was five different work, or let's take that a second time you say that out is really I mean, you can get very you know, in the weeds about it. And that's my favorite kind of stuff. We like to geek out about it and make sure a scene really feels like its own little symphony.

Yeah, that's beautiful. How as you you know, you moved out very wisely. You used your last semester, well, you made sure you didn't like create a little environment and then dip out, which, which, by the way, I get like I was fortunate. You know, my first show was on for nine years, but it was on in a small town in North Carolina. So when people are like, hey, do you know, I'm like, y'all, I don't really know anybody. Like I have my friends that I meet in like our ways where the artists that are the activists come together, and I'm like, I'll connect you to anybody I know, but I probably don't know the person you're trying to talk to.

Yeah, that's beautiful. How as you you know, you moved out very wisely. You used your last semester, well, you made sure you didn't like create a little environment and then dip out, which, which, by the way, I get like I was fortunate. You know, my first show was on for nine years, but it was on in a small town in North Carolina. So when people are like, hey, do you know, I'm like, y'all, I don't really know anybody. Like I have my friends that I meet in like our ways where the artists that are the activists come together, and I'm like, I'll connect you to anybody I know, but I probably don't know the person you're trying to talk to.

Yeah, it's like one of those things I love.

Yeah, it's like one of those things I love.

You know, that's changed a little bit over the more recent years, but like I love that you had the wherewithal even as a student to say, oh, I'm going to make sure I do this well. I'm going to make sure the rhythm I established for my life here continues. You know, I know how hard it is for women in our industry, and you are a brilliant I mean, like, I just I think you are a genius. But like, let's be real, this is also America and you are a black, queer woman.

You know, that's changed a little bit over the more recent years, but like I love that you had the wherewithal even as a student to say, oh, I'm going to make sure I do this well. I'm going to make sure the rhythm I established for my life here continues. You know, I know how hard it is for women in our industry, and you are a brilliant I mean, like, I just I think you are a genius. But like, let's be real, this is also America and you are a black, queer woman.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Do you think you've just had such a strong vision and voice that there was no way anything was going to get in your way? Or were you able to see the obstacles that so many women and so many women of color and so many queer folks in our industry face and just say like, that's not going to catch me, that's not going to slow me down.

Do you think you've just had such a strong vision and voice that there was no way anything was going to get in your way? Or were you able to see the obstacles that so many women and so many women of color and so many queer folks in our industry face and just say like, that's not going to catch me, that's not going to slow me down.

Like.

Like.

Because you've done it. And I just like knowing all the things that get added onto the inhibitors list in an industry like ours. For you, I'm like, how'd you do it? Tell all the queer babies how to do it?

Because you've done it. And I just like knowing all the things that get added onto the inhibitors list in an industry like ours. For you, I'm like, how'd you do it? Tell all the queer babies how to do it?

Well, Look, it's it's it's all about perception, because it's about and if you see being black and being a woman and being queer as something that'll hold you back, it will. And so for me, they the three things the way in which I was born. It's almost like taking credit for being right handed, but it's they really propelled me forward because I'm not all these things. I don't think ase these casts me to play. He doesn't switch it up and go actually more interesting?

Well, Look, it's it's it's all about perception, because it's about and if you see being black and being a woman and being queer as something that'll hold you back, it will. And so for me, they the three things the way in which I was born. It's almost like taking credit for being right handed, but it's they really propelled me forward because I'm not all these things. I don't think ase these casts me to play. He doesn't switch it up and go actually more interesting?

Right? Yeah? Does he see you? Does Spielberg see you like you?

Right? Yeah? Does he see you? Does Spielberg see you like you?

F're like you're interesting? Yeah? You know, and I haven't really seen you before. And clearly I women like myself have existed, you know, theod's masks, aggressive, whatever you want to call us, we exist have always had, but I came along at a time where people were willing to say, Okay, we'll give you, you know, the space. And people that did do that were Alan Yang A Zas in terms of putting me in front of the camera. Yeah, Michael Shure as well, and then obviously Steven Spielberg and Allison and also credited Alison Jones, who is really should take most of the credit for my acting career, because she saw the pilot presentation for twenties, which I was not in but thought was interesting, and asked me to come to our office and I did, and I sat across from her. We had a wonderful conversation about just TV and the history of it, and she just asked me if I had I have any interest in being on camera and I said I haven't, and she said, okay, well, let he's bring you in for some stuff here and there, and she did. Career really began and so and that, and that was really her kind of having you know, this is a white woman who has been doing this for EON's. I mean, she cast freaks and geeks, she cast she cast fresh Prince Bell that like she's someone who can look at somebody and go, I think you should be on television, and she did that, and so I think, but that happened by me doing my writing thing, by me saying people don't really get what twenty's is. So justin Simeon, who was just over here yesterday, who created Dear White People, he was like, yo, I did a pilot. I did a we did a fake trailer for Dear White People, And he was like, let's do a pilot presentation for twenty so people can see what you're doing. Put it on YouTube. Put it on YouTube. And Alison Jones saw, you know, and she was like, who made this? And I went in and sat with her and she started bringing me in for stuff and she's when Alice when disease was like, who should I meet? Who should be in this show? Like you should meet me away, Damn, that's so cool. That's the thing. It's like me being my authentic self is why. And that's why I think that in the Emmy speech at residents to people like it's the things that make you different, those are your super Yeah. So I think we've been taught as societies the things that make us different, because sometimes when you're oppressed, oppression becomes a part of your identity and so and that's how people want it. Because as long as I'm like, well, no, I'm black, I'm gay, I'm a woman, things are going to be bad. It's gonna be rough. It's like, I'm not, you know, an idiot. I know where I live and I know the country I'm in, but yeah, I also know that it is these things about me that make me unlike anyone else, and it gives me a different perspective.

F're like you're interesting? Yeah? You know, and I haven't really seen you before. And clearly I women like myself have existed, you know, theod's masks, aggressive, whatever you want to call us, we exist have always had, but I came along at a time where people were willing to say, Okay, we'll give you, you know, the space. And people that did do that were Alan Yang A Zas in terms of putting me in front of the camera. Yeah, Michael Shure as well, and then obviously Steven Spielberg and Allison and also credited Alison Jones, who is really should take most of the credit for my acting career, because she saw the pilot presentation for twenties, which I was not in but thought was interesting, and asked me to come to our office and I did, and I sat across from her. We had a wonderful conversation about just TV and the history of it, and she just asked me if I had I have any interest in being on camera and I said I haven't, and she said, okay, well, let he's bring you in for some stuff here and there, and she did. Career really began and so and that, and that was really her kind of having you know, this is a white woman who has been doing this for EON's. I mean, she cast freaks and geeks, she cast she cast fresh Prince Bell that like she's someone who can look at somebody and go, I think you should be on television, and she did that, and so I think, but that happened by me doing my writing thing, by me saying people don't really get what twenty's is. So justin Simeon, who was just over here yesterday, who created Dear White People, he was like, yo, I did a pilot. I did a we did a fake trailer for Dear White People, And he was like, let's do a pilot presentation for twenty so people can see what you're doing. Put it on YouTube. Put it on YouTube. And Alison Jones saw, you know, and she was like, who made this? And I went in and sat with her and she started bringing me in for stuff and she's when Alice when disease was like, who should I meet? Who should be in this show? Like you should meet me away, Damn, that's so cool. That's the thing. It's like me being my authentic self is why. And that's why I think that in the Emmy speech at residents to people like it's the things that make you different, those are your super Yeah. So I think we've been taught as societies the things that make us different, because sometimes when you're oppressed, oppression becomes a part of your identity and so and that's how people want it. Because as long as I'm like, well, no, I'm black, I'm gay, I'm a woman, things are going to be bad. It's gonna be rough. It's like, I'm not, you know, an idiot. I know where I live and I know the country I'm in, but yeah, I also know that it is these things about me that make me unlike anyone else, and it gives me a different perspective.

I think it's amazing when you choose to carry your magic as magic instead of as something that might need protecting. Like you're you're you're talking about the energy of your identity, and like I think it's it's all over not only your career, but you as a person. Like there's a reason when we all walk in a room people are like, hey, I love watching people see you. I'm just like, yeah, she's so fucking cool, and like I love it. I love it because you're right. People will tell us all the things we're not supposed to be or the ways we're supposed to make ourselves smaller, and it's like.

I think it's amazing when you choose to carry your magic as magic instead of as something that might need protecting. Like you're you're you're talking about the energy of your identity, and like I think it's it's all over not only your career, but you as a person. Like there's a reason when we all walk in a room people are like, hey, I love watching people see you. I'm just like, yeah, she's so fucking cool, and like I love it. I love it because you're right. People will tell us all the things we're not supposed to be or the ways we're supposed to make ourselves smaller, and it's like.

No, no, I mean well, and also that's that's uh, that's on purpose.

No, no, I mean well, and also that's that's uh, that's on purpose.

Yeah, you know, Oh you mean people might be intimidated by your magic.

Yeah, you know, Oh you mean people might be intimidated by your magic.

You don't say, Well, it's like I think society tells you to try to fit in, Yeah, all the things that you need to feel better about yourself. Yeah, Because you know, we also live in a capitalist society. So if you think you need something to be happy, that you'll constantly be on the hamster wheel. And so I think, yeah, Like for me, I'm just like no, I'm really pleased with you know, who I'm becoming and who I am. And I see so men particularly, you know, women particularly are told this is how you should be and this is what is how I'm supposed to go and this is by this age. And if you don't did that, and so you start to believe you know what people are saying. And when you really kind of step back and go like, well, says who? If you say says a few times a day, you'll start to kind of realize, like, we know, if I need to do what society tells me I'm supposed to do, because oftentimes those that make the most change and live the most bountiful lives are those that kind of go against what society told them they are supposed to.

You don't say, Well, it's like I think society tells you to try to fit in, Yeah, all the things that you need to feel better about yourself. Yeah, Because you know, we also live in a capitalist society. So if you think you need something to be happy, that you'll constantly be on the hamster wheel. And so I think, yeah, Like for me, I'm just like no, I'm really pleased with you know, who I'm becoming and who I am. And I see so men particularly, you know, women particularly are told this is how you should be and this is what is how I'm supposed to go and this is by this age. And if you don't did that, and so you start to believe you know what people are saying. And when you really kind of step back and go like, well, says who? If you say says a few times a day, you'll start to kind of realize, like, we know, if I need to do what society tells me I'm supposed to do, because oftentimes those that make the most change and live the most bountiful lives are those that kind of go against what society told them they are supposed to.

Do I like that? Says Who. It's a nice little mantra.

Do I like that? Says Who. It's a nice little mantra.

Two works, says Who.

Two works, says Who.

Was it like stepping in the Master of None? I mean, obviously you won an Emmy, like it was the whole thing was so incredible to watch.

Was it like stepping in the Master of None? I mean, obviously you won an Emmy, like it was the whole thing was so incredible to watch.

Were you.

Were you.

Did you feel like I'm just going to take this leap as an actor and see what happens. Were you going to folks like were you sitting there being like everybody tell me, like what do I need to know? Or did you feel ready from all the writing?

Did you feel like I'm just going to take this leap as an actor and see what happens. Were you going to folks like were you sitting there being like everybody tell me, like what do I need to know? Or did you feel ready from all the writing?

I honestly didn't know what I was jumping into. I mean, as these didn't even have a name for the thing, Like it was like, oh wow, the first season, like we will sit at that. And I would always tell him like just call these he's a sorry show, and he was just like no, because that's not really it. And I'm actually really you know, I think he was smart to not do that. I think actually was right. But but I just had always been a fan of his his stand up. I love Parks and Rec still to this day obsess. I was always more of a girl me too. Yeah, it's weird. It's like there are two people. It's like either you like Parks to say, like, if you're a Parks AREC person, there's so much about your personality. It's like it means you're an eternal optimist and you're probably a little off the beaten path.

I honestly didn't know what I was jumping into. I mean, as these didn't even have a name for the thing, Like it was like, oh wow, the first season, like we will sit at that. And I would always tell him like just call these he's a sorry show, and he was just like no, because that's not really it. And I'm actually really you know, I think he was smart to not do that. I think actually was right. But but I just had always been a fan of his his stand up. I love Parks and Rec still to this day obsess. I was always more of a girl me too. Yeah, it's weird. It's like there are two people. It's like either you like Parks to say, like, if you're a Parks AREC person, there's so much about your personality. It's like it means you're an eternal optimist and you're probably a little off the beaten path.

You're a little nuts in a good way.

You're a little nuts in a good way.

Yeah. Yeah, I think if you like office, your cynical but yet kind, you know. And I think if you're a Parks on a Rec person, like you're just you marched a video on drum Man and and I love that show, and I loved, you know, what Amy did for you know, disease with that, you know, and like putting him in that space and having him be what he needed to be on that show. And then you know, it's like, you know, the kids grow up and you kind of go, all right, I'm gonna do my own thing. And I see him and Alan Yang, who was writing on Parks of Wrec obviously at the time, and obviously Michael Shore. So I just love that you have people from Parks and Wreck that that trifecta and Okay, we're gonna do this, so we're gonna see what this feels like. And so for me, I was just excited that they were like kind of it was almost like they were making their own band, like they were a part of the popular band that people knew and recognized the music, and they were like all right, we're gonna go over here, and people are like, all right, what's this about to be? And it's like they made three amazing albums, which I can considered the three seasons. The first season, which was just like what is this? The second season, obviously I was really grateful I got to have my own sort of you know, my own platform really, and then season three, which a Z's and I just kind of really went balls to the wall, like he just started to he directed everything you see, and I was like number one in the call sheet, which was a lesson that I was like, Okay, I don't know if I necessarily won't do this, Yes it's a lesson, yeah, me and men. But it was just it was it's such a it was like Camelot, you know, it was a learning space. It was a free space and for us to win. And I was standing writing in the comedy series two years in a row, you know. I think that's why the time the third season came around, posted Siga us like they were like, okay, we get but they people come up to me all the time and talk to me about that third season and say, like I was changed by it or it was it meant so much to me in terms of what you guys were dealing with. So I'm really And also it's this thing that kind of just exists, like we could always come back, you know, ten years from now because these feels like it and if we have something to say. But we really grew up doing that show a lot, you know, behind the scenes and in front of the you know, on camera as well. But it's just a special show that just exists and lives in this moment in time. And I'm really honored that I got to be not just a part of it, but to really help build it, to help this show, to shape it so much. Yeah to people, because it definitely means a lot to me. And the fact that people go back and revisit it, it's like that's God's own gifts.