Work in Progress with Sophia BushGet ready for a big dose of fun when Dr. Teddy Altman makes a house call to the pod!
Yes, it's a Cass and Teddy reunion! Actress, producer, and director Kim Raver joins Sophia to talk about Grey's Anatomy, from breaking down the dynamic of their characters' on-screen chemistry and how they approached the will-they-or-won’t-they open marriage storyline — with Kevin McKidd and the writers too! — to some fun behind-the-scenes stories you need to hear stat!
Plus, a blast from the past! Kim talks about her TV debut on Sesame Street and how public arts changed her life. She also shares her inspiration for getting behind the camera, attending Debbie Allen's unofficial school of directing, and swaps stories with Sophia about each of their first days on Grey's and how the cast welcomed them to the set!
Hey everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello friends, welcome back to another episode of Work in Progress. This week, we have a guest many of you have been clamoring for. She is an incredible actress, an incredible advocate, a brilliant human, and happens to be my love interest from Grey's Anatomy. This week, we are joined by none other than the legend herself, Kim Raver. You likely know Kim as Audrey Rains from twenty four Kim Zimbrana on Third Watch and since two thousand and nine as playing the iconic doctor Teddy Altman on ABC's medical drama Grey's Anatomy. I have had the absolute pleasure of working alongside her this year, bringing Teddy and Cass to your screens. We're both big fans of y'all's chosen ship name for us, Cassidy, and this year, not only did I get to work alongside Kim, but I got to be directed by her. And today I can't wait to dive into talking about her creative process, why she is so protective of and has so much love for her character, and how she looks back in hindsight on having been on one of television's biggest hit shows for all these years. Let's dive in with Kim Raver. I'm just so excited that you're here. You came on the zoom and I was about to be like, hey, girlfriend, and then I was like, wait, the internet. We'll die for that.
I think you should just because.
Okay, maybe that's what we'll call our episode.
I like it.
Hey girl, Hey girlfriend, we have so much to talk about, and I'm so excited. But before you know, we dive into our last year of working together and all the years I've been lucky enough to know you, I actually want to go backwards. I think it's so exciting to sit down with people who have such amazing bodies of work and who are doing such cool things in the world. And I wonder if you got to hang out with a childhood version of you, you know, you at nine or twelve, If you could spend time with that little version of Kim, would you see the woman you are today in her? Or do you think she'd be totally shocked to meet you.
That's such a great question.
It's so interesting and I don't know if it's like generational, but I feel like the younger Kim like you said nine. Yeah, like that wasn't even in the purview, that wasn't even in the I mean maybe it's also it was just like survival. Like I'm I, you know, grew up divorced parents, very young age, single mom raising me and my sister by herself in New York City and and the like. The good fortune of it is that we didn't have phones and TikTok like there was.
It was it was.
So there wasn't sort of this like what am I going to be kind of thing, which is amazing and kind of great. And I mean I joke because I mean I'll go back a little bit.
You know, like.
This parenting generation is much more sort of like helicopter and I think it's because we were so like left to our own vices. There was like an ad that I was like, would come on television and say, it's ten o'clock.
Do you know where your children are?
Yes?
I mean right, And now it's like I'm like, I'm tracking our kids and I'm like, where are they are they?
You know, so there.
I think the younger me was like just sort of putting one foot in front of the other and you know, getting to school in New York City in the eighties by myself, and that's not so.
I mean, my mom was on it, but she was also a.
Working mom and newly divorced, and that wasn't really a thing. There weren't a lot of A there weren't a lot of women in advertising working, and b there weren't a lot of like divorces, So there was.
That aspect of it.
But then I found you know, it's funny, I I I was in Sesame Street as a kid, but I never consider myself as like a child actress.
It wasn't like, wait, was that a regular job or you like did a couple of episodes.
It was like a three year job.
Kim. How did I never know this about you?
It's funny, I said it, like everyone knows. Everyone's like, so you're a child. I'm like, no, I'm not.
That was like my mom was shopping for clothes for my sister and I and someone was like, hey, your kids would be great on Sesame Street and my mom, again, my mom was a single mom, and she was like, y, it'll pay for private school in New York City. Take a you know, And it was a place for me that was steady and uh protective, and I mean there was these doors in the green room that said one, two, three, open Sesame and then I would go into the like magic world, right. So for but that wasn't like oh I'm going to be an actor, right, It just was like, oh, this is a world to make believe that I love so much that I see you know, I see the you know the Carol who was Big Bird was an amazing mister Hooper, all of them, right, So that was but then I think, I mean, look, I was a very.
You know, my sister was very much.
Like really studious and like an incredible academic and more quiet, and I was just like, yeah, I think that being on Sesame true was definitely like a place of like, oh, this is kind of a world. And then it really wasn't until later that I got more involved with it. But to answer your question of would I have imagined that this is where kind of I would be, No, because it wasn't really it wasn't really kind of premeditated. I mean, yes, at thirteen I kind of was like, oh, yeah, this is definitely what I.
Want to do.
And wow, why was there a moment by thirteen or were you just watching more TV and more conscious that that was a thing people could do as a job.
I think it was my mom.
My mom took me to a lot of stuff in New York and a lot of you know whatever she could kind of you know, get us to or a four. And she took me to this theater company and it was called the first all Children's Theater and it was kids from six to eighteen and really completely diverse. It wasn't sort of like what we have now like after school. It was a real theater company. If you were a minute late, you were kicked out of the company.
Wow.
And that there was no excuses. There was no oh my bus was late. I mean there were so many times where I was literally like running across Central Park because I had missed the bus that would get me there on time. And and I think, and you know, Elizabeth Swadows wrote one of the one of the productions, and you know we would go away at Christmas and you know, we performed at the Kennedy Center and kind of it was a real touring theater company.
Yeah.
And I think it was really in that moment that I was like, oh, this that's where I kind of realized it was a craft and that it was something that I it to do.
That's so cool.
Yeah, so yeah, I think that that's sort of sort really where it began.
Wow, And I didn't realize it'd be making these connections listening to your stories today, but listen, I'd be remiss not to say you literally grew up on Sesame Street, you're a PBS kid, and then you're talking about being in a theater company that got to perform at the Kennedy Center, like public arts changed your life.
With out and how important now more than ever?
Right, It's yeah, I think people forget that not only is PBS a service for the parents who are making sure their kids are getting supplemental education at home, but look at what these public arts programs did for you and your own life. It's really beautiful.
Yeah, especially with my mom not being able to kind of be a part of other things to find and it's interesting hadn't thought of it through that way, but it definitely, you know, it changed my life. It changed I could see it changed the life of people who were coming and watching this theater company and all of the other kids involved. I mean, there are really a lot of kids who didn't have their parents around because they were working and you know, financially needed to be at work and they couldn't be picked up at school. And so I think also that sort of thing of the discipline that it gave all of us, and also sort of a center that was all of our owns that came from very kind of fractioned families, which I think, you know, PBS also reaching not only locally, but also when we think about.
How it has, like you said, sort of educated many of us.
Yeah, I mean generations of kids. It's so special, and I hope it can be a great reminder to our friends at home that it's an organization we're supporting, especially right now when it's under attack. Yeah, did you feel like you had a backup plan if acting didn't work or were you like gung ho as a teen? I'm doing this like, I don't. I don't need a plan v.
You know, I know I mentioned it before.
My sister is such an academic I mean which two ivs like undergrad and crad you know, yeah, and also like a you know, very prestigious boarding school. So pardon me, was like, maybe I should make sure that I have, you know, a.
Backup plan because the percentages of people who work.
I mean, you know, they're like they're they're tiny, tiny, and uh so I did make sure that I did study.
You know, I went to BU and I went to their acting program, so I did. I did make sure of that. But I I sort of did feel like it was it was theater or bust, and I kind of always thought that it was gonna go to the theater. I mean, yeah, I thought I was just going to sort of be the theater route. I didn't know how it was going to go, but I knew how I felt when.
I was doing it.
And it's so interesting because, Oh, to answer your question back, which is I remember sitting in the audience and watching one of the performers in this theater company, and he had a light about him.
It just was like this.
Inner thing and I was like, whatever that is, Like that's for me. And that's why I signed up to audition for that theater company after I saw his name was Joseph, after I saw him perform, and I think that that's what I kind of always come home to. It's like that, it's that feeling, and I feel so lucky and so fortunate that I get to actually do it.
I know, we all know that there's so much of it that's it's like trudging along to get to be able to.
Do Yeah, to get to be a working actress so hard. And also what a wild thing to talk about in the context of the twenty first season of Grey's Anatomy, Like that just doesn't happen. No, it's crazy, and I know that. I mean, you joined really pretty early when you think about in the lifespan of the show, it was two thousand and nine. It was during the show's sixth season, and six years is also a long time. Were you a fan of the show and you've seen it?
Oh?
God, so were you nervous walking in there? What was it like? Take me back to nine and what it felt like to start going to play at Seattle Grace.
I think the funny thing is is that to speak, you know, like a show going on five years. What is funny is when I was doing twenty four, it was sort of the height of the success of twenty four, the height of the success of Grace, and so we were kind of like, wow, we were not not rivals at all, but like we were always our tables were always.
Next to each other, like at the end or sad. So it was like, you know, the reason I also kind of knew.
All of them is because you know, it's some of those you know, like for people who don't know, like those award shows, You'll be sitting and my chair would be like touching, you know, Sandra's.
Chair or whatever.
So it was like, who's.
Gonna Who's gonna win this time?
And look, those are amazing, amazing times, and I'm totally aware of those. But what was funny is so it was literally sort of three years of that.
Yeah, and then.
I think I might have even met I'm pretty sure that this is how it happened. I'm, uh, Betsy Beers and Shonda Rhimes at one of those awards.
Wow, and you know, we kind of both.
Had some fan moments and and so then the then when I found out that I was going to do Grays, it was this sort of crazy moment of oh God, well, how are they gonna How is it going to be? When I've been sort of like, you know, it like we've been sort of like on this path on opposite like teams, right like like all of a sudden, you know, you're you've sort of been like these athletes all along and then all of a sudden, you're like, oh, and now we're on the same team.
And I remember I.
Was really nervous, and really it was yeah, because it was the day because they were such a tight knit group, kind of similar twenty four and you know, you go through so much those first years of starting a show, as you know, I mean, your incredible success and and so I remember, you know, on the soundstages, we had like they emptied out the whole sound so it's like this huge airplane hanger practically pitch black except for a light on this giant rectangular table.
That had everyone like all of.
The networks in the studio and the producers and the writers and the entire I had to walk in to this whole group, which it feels so different now being in it, because when someone comes in, it's just it just feels I don't know, it feels different. But it was so daunting, and I'll never forget I had this sort of like complete like just an anxiety of walking into this group. When Sandra Oh, from the opposite table, like it's far like if I'm at the door, she was like at the far end table, she like got up in front of everyone, came around, came towards me, and I was like, and she just gave me.
This huge hug welcome me.
And from that point on it was just sort of this incredible I just thought that was one of the most generous mind.
And that is also who Sandra is.
Yeah, but so that was sort of like the beginning of it, and I was like, oh, okay.
Here we go, and now a word from our sponsors, who make the show possible. A lot of people have asked me what it felt like walking in with you guys at the top of the year, and I would say the same, and you have and I've talked about this, I mean, perhaps ad nauseum for listeners at this point, because I've spoken about it in every interview I've done about our storyline. But you have such a warm, lovely, grateful set. Everyone's thrilled to be there. There is so little ego, and I'm sure that takes time to iron out. And I'm sure you know, you know, in twenty one years, how could you not be so well oiled as a machine, all of you. But people have asked what it's like and I said, you know, it really kind of took my breath away. At the second table read I came to, I was like, wow, every single person from the number one down shows up for this, you know, and similarly to what you're saying in your story, you know, I walked in. It was actually the first one i'd been to for our second episode. I think I was on the East coast when you guys did the table read for my first and Ellen got up and walked over and gave me a huggin said thank you so much for joining the show. You just don't know what it does for us. And I was like, ma'am, Ellen Bombayoh, ma'am.
She's she's right. I mean she's right. Like we felt so.
Just so lucky and so happy to have you, and you have just been an eye and I'm sure like because I've been saying it in every interview, I mean, you are just such a light.
You're just so.
Collaborative and talk about shining light, like walk into the room and everyone feels it on set and you're you're just such a collaborator and I just love how you're like how like how how can we make it the best?
Bet say?
And what's the most efficient and most fun? And you can tell.
I mean, you've just been doing it for just so many years. Your your professionalism is extraordinary and thank you friends to jump in. I mean, so I think we that's really genuine. I mean I think we all to have, you know, such a shining star like walk in and you know, sort of eff use you know that your light and your talent and your professionalism and your intelligence, Oh my goodness, was really.
And is incredible.
And I also, you know, it's funny, there's been a lot of stuff about like, you know, women supporting women and oh they aren't really supporting women, and I totally get that, but I do have to say every everything that we do, there is that ripple effect. And your support for me when I was directing and just coming in also was so extraordinary and I'm so filled with gratitude because that energy is pervasive to the crew. And yes it's it's you know, you were coming and joining us, but it is a part of the sort of women supporting women and expanding and growing.
And you're so generous.
You are just not you know, there's some like a sort of gatekeeping and whether it be on set or you're like, oh, you're going to Boston, with your kid, and I have this incredible friend who like, oh no, I mean connected, I mean you literally she was like on the phone and she's like, oh, You've got to meet this amazing person.
She's so great, and she is this magnificent woman.
And it didn't surprise me that she was, you know, such a superstar like Sophia.
But what you're talking about is exactly how it felt for me. Not only do I when you talk about you know, two thousand and nine and the experience you had walking in and Sandra ran up to you, and I had my experience walking into the table read and Ellen was so generous with me. And then of course there's there's miss Debbie Allen. I like, I'm gonna die talk about an icon and I go, Hi, Debbie, it's such a it's such a joy to be here. I'm Sophia Bush. And she yanks my hand toward her and goes, I know who you are, and I was like, okay, hi, And and then you are just at every single word you said about me, I want to mirror back to you. You are brilliant and exceptional. And I can't tell you how joyful it felt and also refreshing to watch you, Kevin Debbie, I mean everyone, the crew, Byron, the way he runs a camera crew. Everybody cares about the work so much, and you're willing to pause and say, you know what'll be more interesting is if we do it this way. I know we settled on this idea. This one's better. It allows someone like me who's coming into your space to feel like I can bring my full self and I won't be accused of being you know, pushy, or I won't be told we don't have time for that. We've already done this. The ripple effect goes both ways, and it creates so much freedom and it's so exciting, and there are there are plenty of shows that haven't been on nearly as long where everybody's clocking in and getting ready to clock out as soon as they can, and to be on a set that is so playful and so much much fun and also willing to take risks.
You know, the fact this topic, yes, the fact.
That you you know, as Teddy play this bisexual woman, that you have your whole beautiful storyline with you know, your partner who passed away, and what that means for you and Kevin as your characters, fall in love and you have to figure it out and to see a show be willing to say, hey, sometimes marriage is hard. Sometimes maybe you've married someone you love, but maybe the relationship isn't healthy, And instead of judging it or making it ugly or making it I don't know, something untoward, you come in with the opposite of judgment and say, let's explore something. Let's get people room to have conversations, and the conversation the idea might not even be the result they settle on, but let's let's explore things and remind people they can talk to each other. And I was like, hello, it's just so fun.
I think it's because, I mean, I really feel like there's such a sense of collaboration. I mean, yes, look, television is really fast and we all got to move and we all know that. But in terms of collaborative feeling, especially with this topic, because I think both Kevin and I were nervous about sort of Oh.
Yeah, tell me, what was it like when you guys found out you were going to do this. I'm dying to know.
Before I showed up.
Whenever you're shooting, like Meg, who's amazing, she's our showrunner and We've started this little kind of trend where we go to Joe's Bar because it's usually where we're off where we're shooting, and it's kind of that next set over. So we kind of go over there and we sort of talk things through of like what's the next storyline. And when she brought us, you know sort of that that she was sort of tinkering with the writer's open marriage.
I was like, oh, okay. I was like, we need to say.
So. And we also wanted to do it where we were the three of us together, to be really sort of consciously aware of how Kevin might be feeling about it, how I might be feeling about it, and so how so when she brought it, I was very much sort of I wanted it to be mindful and purposeful, and I wanted it not to be just sort of something to do, like kind of like, oh, let's just do something like really I wanted to be grounded and like sort of with consent because I felt like I'd gone through a whole like a cheating spell and I didn't. And I said to her, look, you guys are going to do whatever you want to do, but if I have my input, my input is that it's not that they just want to cheat, that it's actually, in fact away that they think perhaps could save the marriage, and that that Teddy has as a character evolved, that Teddy has actually evolved from this giant mistake that she made of infidelity. And I didn't want it to be tied to infidelity because I thought that.
Yes moved forward and so that.
Was there was some just really amazing dialogue between me, Meg and Kevin and she would digest kind of what our concerns were, go back with the writers, and then they would kind of work through it. And again, I really think because you came in and brought such depth to Cass that it was so much more than just again sort of like a fling thing.
I didn't I and you and.
I had a lot of discussions about that and the hash to that because I think it's I think, to me, it's really interesting when steaks are really high and that helps ground whatever new idea or trying to kind of do. And I what's so amazing about Shonda Rhymes is that she's never afraid to lean into the complicated. And you know, while an actor, you're so protective of and you're like.
I don't know about like this.
Is really.
But for me, if I can get to the nugget of the truth of it and that what the snakes are of it, I can fully get behind it. And so for me, I kind of really got to well, I mean, it's either trying this open marriage or it looks like they might not last, right, And so whether open, whether you believe in it or not believe in it.
And I think what's interesting is.
That it's it's very complicated and very messy and very multi layered. And and again that is sort of what Shonda never shies away from, and she really enables the characters to kind of go from low point. And I'm not saying that this is a low point, but a low point in their marriage for sure had a low point in decisions that are made to kind of your hero moments. And and I think that that's also very relatable to fans because think I think a lot of television is sort of either hero or you know, you know evil. Yeah, And I think that we as individuals, we have our hero moments and we have our very you know, low bad decision moments. So it's going to be it's interesting too, right, It's interesting. How do you how in your experience in the last couple of weeks, how have the fans, how are they digesting what's happening?
And now a word from our sponsors. It's really interesting because even before, you know, we had to do so much work obviously, and we shot so many episodes, and you do all these things so long before it airs. And one of the things that really was important for me and you touched on it a bit, was the amount of conversation you and I got to have about this. And something that felt important to me that I know was important to you is that this wasn't some tawdry affair thing as well. You know, I went through that twenty years ago. It's followed me around for my whole life. It's a miserable and it's something I'm like, very sensitive about even having to be adjacent to that, especially because you know, not to be crass, but what you so often see is some guy that cheats on his wife and he's a dickhead. And the dynamic in particular here about two women really expanding their idea of intimacy and fulfillment in their forties was interesting to me, and I think what's interesting to me, is I do know a couple. They're a heterosexual couple I've been friends with for ten years that are in an open marriage. I am still the friend that's like I could literally never I would die and we laugh. But on the flip side, they're also one of the couples I know who's been married the longest and they have a really healthy relationship. And something I learned years ago from another iconic friend of ours, Connie Britton, she said, you know, she said, I never judge my characters ever, It's not my job. But you said something that I think really rings true, which is we love our characters, so when we are worried they're doing something bad, we worry about them being judged. We have like second hand embarrassment or secondhand fear. And what I loved about this was that it was real honesty among adults, saying, nobody talks to you about this, Like the Disney movies don't pitch this stuff to you. They don't tell you how hard it's going to be to, you know, be in a relationship, and they don't tell you what it might take to stay in one, especially if you want it. You know, I like that Cass and her husband really like each other. I like that they have a spicy energy. I like that, even though it wasn't on the page, we added a beat where, you know, when he and Owen have to go back to the hospital, he kind of looks at me like she's cute. He gives me the go ahead, you know, in that first episode we did together. And so what I found was a desire to turn the idea on its head and to represent people that you know, aren't necessarily on the page, but who I do know, who I do care about in a good way. And then when you and I started to talk about what the intimacy is, particularly what this intimacy is between two women, particularly how that is just a simply different energy that they're not getting from the men that they're partnered with.
What it is to.
Feel seen, feel seen, to go so long feeling invisible, and then to have someone see you. That can be intoxicating, It can be a kind of chemistry. But then you have to figure out is this the kind of chemistry I have with my friend or is it a different kind? And so the slowness of being able to explore all of that felt really important, and I have to say all of that to say that now that the episode is aired, so what's amazing is so many of the fans are like, I can't explain it. I'm such a Teddy and Owen fan, but my god, I just want Teddy and Cas to be together now. And people are really excited about it, And even the ones that hope you and know and work it out are like, I don't know, maybe they can just be friends because we like seeing these two women together.
That's to me also, and I love that.
I know, I love that, and you created I mean, so many moments, but one that really stands out to me is when Teddy kind of has led casts, you know, down.
This road and that she's ready and then in that moment.
Of sort of feeling conflicted and saying that, whoh, this is not going to fix my marriage and kind of stops it again. What a beautiful moment that you chose for Cass to have sort of such compassion and understanding.
It's it's it's such a a.
Like a whisper of women supporting women in Ass's reaction to when ted It's a beautiful, unspoken moment and it's very moving to me. And I think also subconsciously, people are like, oh, yeah, whatever happens with them, right.
Yeah, and that's it. And you see it, and you see that regardless of sex or sexuality or desire or whatever word you want to use being the top line idea, you see that, it's an actual connection. And it was so much fun to build that with you because I feel as my friend, I feel so connected to you. Yeah, and you're such a wonderful artist to collaborate with, and so it was so much fun, you know, to do all of that with you. And then I sort of had a giggle because I realized, you know, you and I have all this stuff. Obviously, given the Cassidy as they're calling our ship name, given the Cassidy storyline, most of our work is away from Kevin, who plays Owen. But then I got to have this whole surgery day with him, and there was difference. Oh my god, we had the time. We had so much fun because he's.
Such a great guy, right.
Like, Kevin is such a wonderful man. He was also directing the episode.
Oh my god, that's great.
A talented director. So I was with him and Chandra and James, and I was just like, oh my god, all my all my TV idols. I'm like, I'm doing surgery with the people I grew up watching a surgery show about Oh my god.
By the way, we have to share with your fans, Like most people come in and it's a.
Whole like what the how do I hold the She's like hand the thing and she's like, you know, she's got the cardiothoracic surgery down.
It was so fun. It was The medical medical advisor on the show was like, god, I love when people have played doctors before. I was like, I got you.
I'm sure. Linda Klein was like, oh oh, it was fun.
But it was great because doing the scenes with him, you and I got to explore all of this intimacy and all of these ways women can see each other and support each other and have a different kind of rhythm with each other. And then it's like I went into surgery in the in the previous episode with Kevin and we were such bros and and he's he's like a pissed bro and we're we're scrubbing in and I just look at him and I'm essentially I don't I don't call him this, but I basically am like dude, my bad, misread it. You're good, not here to get in your way, and like it was so it was almost like we were we were two boys playing brothers in a scene, and then you and I are these like incredible, like you know, adult women having having this conversation about how they how they have intimacy. And I was like, this is so funny because I got to be this woman that I really admired and in one sense, uh, and then I got to be like a nine year old boy.
Oh my god, that's so good.
I love yeah, playing playing hospital with Kevin? What is your relationship like with him? I mean, you guys have had this, you know, decades almost long relationship. You have this very storied history as characters, and obviously you speak so highly of him. Did you always get along? Were you so excited when you found out Owen and Teddy we're going to have this great love?
What was it like in the beginning, From the moment we met, It's just this fantastic like work marriage, There's such a respect for one another.
You know.
I think the base is there's such a trust between us because we've had to go to some pretty you know, our characters have to go to like these very dark, hard, vulnerable, intense places. And also we had this very kind of confusing you know with Sandra's character christ and there was single and Teddy and Christina like wanted to be a team and not romantically at all, but in terms of like mentor mentee, and she was sort of willing to give up Owen to work with Teddy, and so you know, automatically there could have been this just like very tense.
Relationship, but we had such.
A an organic chemistry really with the three of us, Me and Sandra and Kevin because we had to navigate a lot of stuff there. Yeah, So I sort of feel like in the moment I met him, you know, I came in Shonda Rhime's and Betsy Bears brought me in. This is I think I was just finishing twenty four when I first first started to meet everyone, like to meet Kevin and sort of see if that was going to be a good and we just I remember us like sitting on catch It. I was like, hey, hey, like we just had such an easy, sort of effortless We kind of have the same sort of work ethic.
And similar.
You know, he had been on a bunch of shows before I had been on a bunch of shows, and you know, he's incredibly you know, welcoming because he had been there for a while, and I just I just sort of, uh trust him, and I hope and I think he feels the same.
So we're able to go to very.
Raw places as creatives, and I think to be able to be on a series that does have to move so fast and it's a really it's a luxury to kind of have that relationship of trust and to be able to try things. It's like, I know, I sort of know that if I'm going to be in a free fall, that he's going to catch me, which is so great because it means that you can really as an artist, step out of your comfort zone and know that you know your your partner, who you're you're out there with, is going to have you. So I think you know feels that same way. But I think that that's you know, and and and there's massive amounts of stuff that we have to tackle at a time, you.
Know, yeah, of course, So yeah, it's just.
Really been kind of just lovely and respectful and you know, you spend so many hours, uh, and I think that that's also why we were so protective of this storyline. Yeah, because we our characters have been together for so long and not I mean, like what you were saying I thought was really interesting and love Connie Britten. I mean, I know, we're all the way back from our New York theater days, and it's interesting because it it wasn't so much as judging the character, but but safeguarding that we weren't just gonna do something to do it, that there was real deep intention behind it, similar to the conversations you and I had about open marriage and what is the story that we're telling? That it really had a depth to it, and I'm sure that the writers also wanted that same intention. But you know, the writers are always steps ahead of us when they bring us a new idea, So just to kind of hear from them, like what they're thinking, and I have to give the writing team just such a huge shout out, if you will, that that they listen to what our concerns are then, and look, if they're total if our concerns are like, you know, kind.
Of bullshit, then they'll call it bullshit, right.
But if they actually are making sense, I feel like, you know, Meg really listens and kind of goes back and sort of reworks it and hones it into here's the initial idea, here was input, and it kind of amalgamates into I think where we are today with you know the storyline of open marriage and then also, you know, all of your incredible input and finesse to it so that so that it's a deeper thing rather than just kind of clickbait.
Yeah, well, and that's it, right you, No matter what you're doing, you want to humanize it because that, I also think is the way out of judgment of your character. It's the way out of feeling like something is gratuitous, to make something really real, to give it emotional legs, to think through it intellectually. And that was part of what was so much fun for me, you know, coming in with you guys, because you care so much and you do so much work on it that you know, it made me feel like I could also bring the best version of myself to that. I'm realizing that, you know, I was saying, how I'm seeing how I'm seeing fans react to our storyline, but how are the fans reacting for you? I Mean, you've been part of this world for so long. And I imagine you have a relationship with the Grays fan base, Like what what's your internet look like right now? Are people excited? Are they upset? Are they all the things?
It's so interesting because you know, I wanted to be home when are like the episode that I directed aired and I was away, so I haven't done like a sort of deep die you're waiting.
I'm kind of waiting.
To like be because it just you know, I mean, and then the finale, and I do think that there's mixed feelings. I think we definitely stirred up the and I get it, you know what I mean, Like it's, yeah, like what's so cute? I'm realizing now the fans are going through what I went through when they first said.
Oh we're going to do an open marriage.
Yes, what the.
Fuck are you talking about?
Open marriage?
So I think and then and then some people split off and they're like this is fantastic. I'm shipping that. You know, Cassidy and.
I love them and sort of like how we feel about like all of our scenes, like we love it, and then also like heartbroken, like like in terms.
Of like but hold on, is Owen hurt?
Like what's happening and then like what happens with where Owen is going in his storyline, And so I think from the small little at the airport of what I read, I think it's this mix of sort of like what I went through, you know, of yeah, and you know, I get it, like when you've been shipping a relationship for as long as Teddy and Owen have been together, and there's something you know and and it it's on the precipice of not making it or making it. That's really scary because I totally get why people, I.
Mean people, I was skiing up on the top of a mountain, like you have to like it's like way up there, and the in Italian this woman at the cash register was like, are you telling.
You all men?
Yes, yes, it's like and she had, you know, feelings.
So it's it's just.
So interesting that it reaches such like there's such a huge reach to it.
And I think it's because it's that organic thing.
Of like, well, if this relationship is not making it, what does it mean about my relationships? And I think that that's also okay, Like I think that that's what's really cool is and that's also why I think Greece has lasted, you know, twenty going into twenty two seasons. We're all on the roller coaster of these characters, and I totally get. I totally get the confusion, the ships, the you know, the wanting of all the different things and the confusion of the new things.
And yes, it's sort of a multitude of feelings. I think.
I love that. I love that. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. When did you start directing?
I started My first thing was with Alissa Milano.
Oh you you know, you guys have a similar thing of just supporting other women in in so many aspects of life.
There were these three books.
That I, you know, with a couple other people, we were like, let's try to you know, make these into films, and we ended up getting the rights of like seven books. But then they couldn't figure out, you know, sort of where to put this one book. And again it was about a woman, really interesting story, and so through like a sort of long, you know, kind of hall, we ended up getting three of them made, and one of them I directed with my husband, and he directed another one, and then I went back to Grace, and then there was the third one. But it was just it was this feeling of, you know, having kind of done the acting lane for a while that I just was like, oh, I want to see what it's like from other perspectives. And having someone like Debbie Allen and Kevin Conra Wilson and watching them kind of, uh, you know, put on a totally different hat and sort of lead the way.
Really opened up the sort of that door for me.
And so and I think, I don't know if I'm repeating myself, but you know, Debbie Allen doesn't just hand out episodes, like if you're on the show, it doesn't mean that you're.
Going to get an episode.
You have to really it's almost like the Debbie Allen UCLA Film School.
She's not in collaboration with UCLA, but I just feel like you.
Have to shadow and train, yeah, and really sort of prove that you've arrived at the knowledge that you'll need to do it. And I and that is what is also so incredible about her is so that you know, the first episode of Grace that they gave to me.
They could have been like, oh, let's give her like a small little up. She's you know, she hasn't done it here before.
They gave me a huge episode and it was incredible, and it was such a you know.
I I mean, I had.
A car hitting two of the actors as an I had a brick hitting another actor.
I had a song, I had a birth. I had to have a.
Real baby, but it was COVID, so they weren't kind of allowing it, so I had to advocate for that.
It was, you know, an amazing.
Storyline about women's reproductive rights. It was a massive episode and really thanks to Debbie, I felt very prepared for it, and wow, you know, and that also, I think is incredibly important, and she understands the importance of not only like when it's so hard and everyone says, oh, it's better for women, it's better, ways it's still really hard for female directors, right, so that when you finally have that opportunity, it's it's one thing to have opportunity, it's another thing to be prepared and skilled with that opportunity.
I really feel like, you know, it's Debbie's.
Knowledge of that that like, you kind of get one shot at it, and if you arrive and you don't have the skill for it, you might not.
So she makes sure that.
When that opportunity, does you know, come knock in that you're really prepared. And she's just been an incredible mentor and she's just really I mean, you have to know your stuff, have done your homework, and it goes back to those days of being in that theater program and if you're a minute late, you're kicked out.
It's disciplined, right.
So I just there's something for me that is so incredible to have the sort of years of acting experience and to be able to translate that into something that's sort of like in the same vein as acting, but a totally different medium. I feel like it's like it's just like blown my mind and opened up a whole other lane for me, which I just I love it.
That's so cool.
Yeah, and Kevin was.
So supportive and Chandra, I mean they were just amazing everyone in their own and I mean and that crew, I mean, you've got to experience that group. Our crew is just amazing. I just really I love them. They work so hard. They are there before everyone and after everyone, and they give up so much of their family time and I really I'm just blown away by each department's talent and like we're really Lucky.
It's incredible. I mean the from the set builds and the way that they can accordion down and expand into other things. I mean, your lighting rigs, everything. I was like, oh my god, this is an amazing place to come to work.
Yeah, it's a really good, really good group. And to see such a you know, and to see so many women there too. I mean we've got also incredible female DP and she's just amazing. Yeah, and on standing of the departments. So that's really great.
It's really cool. How do you think the show manages to stay so fresh because twenty one seasons of material? I mean, do you think it's partially because there's never a shortage of medical stories? It is there, like secret sauce in the water, what is going on over there?
I feel like it is that thing that we sort of touched upon, of the willingness to go to a dark side of sort of you know, humanness, and then also really show hero moments because a lot of medical shows that haven't lasted, you know, and so it's got to be something I feel like that Shonda has tapped into. Yeah, you know, and I mean the fans are it's a lot to do with the fans, and I really, I just I think that you know, Shonda was willing to take certain risks and do certain things that we then carry on throughout the seasons.
That really just I.
Mean that is sort of lightning in the bottle, right, I mean, amazing medical shows, but for whatever reason, they don't stick. And I think I think so many of us, you know, you and I have done shows that haven't gone on which were like shows, but they just don't for some reason they don't connect or or a studio or a network hasn't given.
Its time too. I think that's also.
A really big thing in terms of you know, times have changed, whereas able to evolve, and so too there's not as much time.
So I'm sure those medical shows would have stuck around.
Yeah, you know, in terms of grace, I really I just feel like, I think the humanity of what all of these people are going through and the ability of the writers to yes come up with medical stuff. But even like the open marriage thing, I'm not sure other shows would have tackled that. You know, they would have had that thing of like, well is she going to be likable?
You know what I mean?
Like you and I have heard that and I don't know if your fans know.
What that is.
Yeah, the likability trap is tough, and female characters in particular, no matter what they are, even if their assassins, people are like, but is she likable?
Right?
They never asked that about the men.
They never asked that about men.
It's so weird.
And I think that that's what's really cool that Shonda and the writers and our showrunner is able to like really lean into that and not be afraid of that.
Wow, that really strikes me as something especially for the fan, I think, because it just hit me that you have women who run your show, who trust how smart your audience is. They're not thinking that the fans are gonna suddenly not like a character if she's human, right, Well, I mean I think about the pilot of Grace.
Yeah, how it's Meredith who is like sleeping with Derek and then the next morning he's like gotta go, Like you know, it's all it's sort of like it.
It kind of bins the stereotype on its head and yeah, afraid and not afraid of it. And I don't know how they also are able to have that and still and maybe that is because yeah, like you're saying. The fans are like, yeah, I relate to that, Like, yeah, I you know, I don't.
Know a human woman exactly what. Yeah, I love it. Okay, I'm curious about this because we touched on it a little bit. It's fun to go into a surgical scene having a little bit of surgical background. You have done so much surgery on this show. You have played a doctor for so long. How much do you think you actually know? Like if there were an emergency scene and I was gonna.
Say, like, I know you, and I like I know you after being with you so much this year that like I think you actually really absorb that stuff. Like I think like if I was on a desert island with you, I'd be like, yeah, I want her operating on me, like like you.
I'm I would say I'm really good.
Like in an emergency situation, I feel like I could be a total badass and I want it in my mind. I feel like, oh yeah, I could do it. I don't know if like the recall of like oh yeah, you would be great.
You'd be like, oh, this is the blobberie blah of the ex blobbery blah and you blah blah blah, and you would like kind of like all regurgitate all that, and I'd be like, yes, I remember.
Down here where the heart is.
That is so funny.
Quite sure did they say to connect these two?
Like?
Also, like if I was putting together furniture, you would be my first call, right like.
Oh yeah, yeah, oh I'm so good at that.
See like you're you remember all that?
Yeah? Like you like so, I don't if I had to take a medical test, fuck it, forget it, no way.
But if you showed me the cavity of a.
Body around cardio like thoracic stuff, because that's all that's what Teddy does, I think I could kind of like connect some dots.
Okay, Okay, I like it. There's like paint by Num.
I did tell the story once in an interview, and it's kind of embarrassing, and I'll tell you because I think I did tell you. The short version is my husband and I are on a plane and you know, all of a sudden, we heard ladies and gentlet known if there's a doctor on the plank, can you please come forward?
We have a medical emergency. I started to get up.
Oh my god, just you're subconscious.
I've never seen him this. He went like green. He grabbed my He was like, what are you doing.
I was like, there's a medical army, because like, you are.
Not a doctor. And I was saying, I know I'm not delusional, but part of me I don't know whether there's that part of life. Yeah, I can fix anything. I of course I could do this.
Yeah. By the way, I gotta admit, if I was on a plane and they did the thing and no one got up, I would get up.
Yeah, but I would. So what do you think, Like, could you say I did it?
Once?
I told you I did one ye. Yeah.
It was at a music festival. A girl started having an epileptic seizure and I knew what to do. And people were like, oh my god, are you a doctor? And I was like no, but I I was like, what I can't explain right now is why I know what to do in this situation. But I do know what to do in this situation, and it's like what I realize it's probably more honestly, from having been a camp counselor and literally having to keep other people's children alive and who you are sure I know a lot about a lot of things in weird ways. And I do think if we were on a plane and there was no actual doctor, I'd be honest, It's not like I'm going to be like sometimes I know, I'd be like, look, I'm not a doctor, but what's going on? Because like, I'm CPR certified, and I do have all these other fans not that I know how to respond to, so let me try to help. My mom gets upset by that. She's like, you are the person that if there is a disaster, like if if there was an explosion in a building, you run toward the building while everyone's running away. And I'm like, obviously I'm gonna I'm going to help. And she's like, you're my kid, run away, run away from the disaster. And I'm like, oh, I see.
You are a doer and you are a fixer. I mean, I mean, do you met.
I think the first time we actually really met, and I'll tell your fans, you were handing out homemade soup to the UPS delivery man during COVID.
I was I was like, I love this woman.
I was like, oh my god, you're my neighbor.
Wasn't that the first time?
Yes, yeah, I made soup for JP, he's one you gave me, honey, I did.
Neighborhood, Yeah, neighbors by the way, everyone.
It's so nice. We have a cute We have a cute little zone in the city.
I'll tell you where it is. But it's a cute now.
But it's cute, and we do love who are you ps man? We do for life? And now a word from our sponsors that I really enjoy and I think you will too. This is a random question, but because you've done the show for so long, I'm curious because the answer for me was yes, Have you ever stolen anything from the grades set?
Yes, the first time I left, I stole my scrub cap.
Cute because it.
Means there's so much meaning in the hat for Teddy with the birds and Alison.
Yeah, yeah, oh, I love that. I mean I waited until we rapped, but I took I did take some things. Like The funniest part is that when we wrapped, my girlfriend Hillary, who's one of my best friends from that job, was not working on the show anymore. She had left after the sixth season. So the biggest and most like not incognito in any way, shee orformed things that I stole were actually for her, Like I stole her this chair that had a table attached to it.
I was just gonna say, did you steal a chair?
Yeah, it's like a nineteen fifties telephone chair. And then I stole her a lamp.
Time out time, How did you walk out with a chair?
I mean, I like drove up to the soundstage and just put stuff in the car. Now, in my defense, they were selling everything off okay, and I was like, I'm going, wait, this is your.
Show, not for you. Oh, c's just like, how did you pull? I thought I stole a chair? Load up a chair?
Could you imagine?
No?
But I did. Actually I took photos. They were redressing some set and there were these sconces in boxes and I asked the set deck team where they came from, and they were like, oh, they're vintage. They're from a prop warehouse. So I took photos of them so I can try to reverse image search them and see if I can find them online anywhere. I wanted to steal them, but I wouldn't. No, I wouldn't actually like like steal, steal, But I was like, if you're going to sell all these things that have immense emotional meaning to me to strangers, I'm going to take what I want before the sale.
That's totally yes.
I mean they were selling them, they were giving them away.
That's exactly. That's how I felt about that, exactly. I like that you have your scrub cap. That's perfect. I'm just realizing how long we've been talking. I could talk to you forever. I wish we had a glass of wine and we were in the same place.
Well, we're doing that walk, We're doing.
That very soon. I will ask you my last and favorite question to ask everyone who comes on the show, who graces me with their presence, what feels right now like your work in progress as a human or in any way whatever comes to mind. It can be a career thing, a personal thing, anything you want. Oh, oh my gosh, so many things. I'm always working on making sure the only opinions I listen to come from people who matter to me, which in our line of work is really hard. I am. I am working on saying no to more things because I want to say yes to everything. I want to do everything for everyone. I want to get on every zoom, I want to help with every project, and I just don't actually have enough hours in the day. So I'm trying to get better at saying no carefully and I am I am constantly working on letting how happy I finally am in my life really hit me and that feels nice.
And I think that comes from learning how to love oneself, because if we learned how to love oneself, then we can accept the love from the other.
Does that make sense?
Yeah? Maybe, I think it's kind of a great thing. Those are all amazing and beautiful. Thank you for sharing that.
I think.
I think really continuing sort of following this directorial pathway.
I cool.
Yeah, it's really.
It's just something that I I.
Just love that.
I mean, for me, that moment when the first time where you know, I had for at least the grades one where I sat at home and I was kind of figuring out how to do this new thing, and then I was at the game Boy, which for your it's the one you have the three I know, you know, but for your fans when you have like the three screens and you can see the three camera shooting it, and it was like it was like all of a sudden like being a diver underwater in the ocean and seeing all of these things that I had never seen before, so it like opened up like this whole world for me.
Yeah, and I'm just so.
I just feel like there's I'm so blown away by it and I feel like there's so much to learn. And what's so exciting to me is to sort of find something within the field that I do that I love.
But that's like blowing my mind.
And I I love that like where I am in my life and my career, that I can find something that really turns me on and excites me and terrifies me, you know, not sure what the path is, and to really kind of lean into that.
And and I think.
I think something all so that I'm I'm like working on is similar saying no, but it's like voicing when something is is uncomfortable or not working.
For me, I'm so.
Used to, you know, being in agreement and you know, and I think directing is also helping me find my voice in that because when you're directing, you have to lead the troops, but for me also in a very collaborative way. So I think I'm trying to translate that into my life of instead of, like you said, sort of saying yes to everything. It also, as women were taught to, especially in this business, to not you know, rock the boat, don't you know, don't make any waves, don't you know? And you have to find all of these ways to kind of like like pretzel your way through the thing because you don't want to like be difficult or be labeled in any or. And I think what's been so interesting about directing is it enables me to sort of speak up to what and believe in my own vision and whether it's right or wrong doesn't matter. What matters is sort of the collaborative vision that I have and believing that that is of importance. So that is kind of blow my life and as well as like into my vision creatively.
So that's sort of what I'm working on.
I love that. That's beautiful. Thank you for sharing, yeah, and thank you for coming to hang with us today.
Thanks for having me.
I know all the fans are so amped to hear from you, and it's been such a joy to come and play on your show.
I know having you too is a real gift. You're, just, like I keep saying to everyone, such an intelligent, collaborative, unique, talented, amazing human beings. So it's just been such an amazing amazing season, and I hope we have more stuff together.
I do too, fingers crossed. Yeah, thanks Cassidy Forever.
That's so cute.
Sorry cutie, thank you, Enjoy the rest of your day.
Thanks Anny.
Bye,
