Wine Down with Jane Kramer and I heard radio podcast Sarah's back hood was just we have too much fun. It was to handle, too hot to handle. I mean, we have a very hot show today too, because I'm staring at a picture of Nicole Williams. She's hot. She let us to move this paper away from you, bib. Sorry, she's a wag. Which, by the way, I'm going to feel bad again. So I remember how last week I felt like I was judging. Yeah, I felt bad for judging. Well, I never watched Wags because I was just like, oh my god, these these professional athlete wives have so much problems, like so many problems in their life that I'm just said, I don't know, but I'm excited to meet her. Weren't you a professional athlete wife? Am? I? Like? So confused? At I just wanted to make sure it wasn't absolutely losing my marbles because I haven't like I don't have a coffee. But but I mean, no, you know what I mean, actually don't Oh Sarah, Wait wait wait, I'm confused. Wait you don't think that you're I'm so confused. Yes, I am the wife of a football player, but former yes, so, but I just never like, when I saw the Wags, I'm like, you know, there, they look different than me. I'm and she just walked in. She looks different than me. She's you know, so what is happening him? Nicole Williams good? How are you? So? I basically just got called out. She literally just tried to sit here and say, I just like, can't you know, I don't understand, like I felt like I couldn't relate to the to the Wags because but then Sarah just goes, yeah, but you're you. You were wive and girlfriend of your flag. But I just but again, you even saw the show and you rolled your eyes. Don't mine now about what wags the girls. I'm not worried about that. I'm still suck on the whole situation, really offended that you don't consider him a prox. I know at the end of our relationship, I'll still playing, but I still play. I know, so, Okay, fine, I'm a wag, but I just like, okay, we're like what they like it own it. I'm a wag. Well, Larry doesn't play anymore. So I'm a former. Oh you're former too, Okay, I guess I just you guys just seem like just so beautiful and look at you, Oh she gave birth like a minute ago to oh my god. And he likes to tell everyone, are you still on wigs? No shows is done. We did three seasons and now did you have fun? Yeah? It was fun, it was good. It was a great experience. How are the girls? See? I just feel like I couldn't relate to those girls. Maybe that's why to see you seem really sweet, and so that's my whole point. Let me just circle back around here. My whole point was at last week, I maybe had judged one of the people we had on the show because she was dating. She found her partner while he was in prison, so so exactly, so you kind of have that that's weird, so a little I was a little judgmental in the very beginning, which is wrong. And so I said, I feel bad because were these women date athletes? I don't know or stop stop. What I said was I'm gonna feel bad because I also pre judged the wags before I met you. And I said, because I can't relate to I can't can't relate to a beautiful woman like I literally can't listen to you say that again. Well, I'm just and maybe it's because, yes, I didn't meet my husband after his professional career or on the outs of it. But so when I saw the show, I just didn't relate to it. And you guys looked all beautiful, and you guys really yelling and having all these problems, and like, how hard can it really be? Like you're married to a I would actually like to tell you what could be her problem? How long did you guys date before you got married? Six years? Thank you? With my boyfriend's six years right now, she's that's a struggle and I'll give it to her. So Nicole, maybe you can help my girlfriend Sarah out. She gave him an ultimatum. That's that. She said, If I don't have the ring by New Year's I'm gone. It's what month is it? I'm not going anywhere. You have to try, right, you gotta like light a fire, were not ready, Like I can't go full psycho, but I'm not ready to go full psycho yet, right, So how did you get the ring? Please? Did you wag out? I can't. I was actually really patient, but until the last the last year, like the year he proposed was like the year where he was like, oh god, she really wants My thing was, I'm getting older, I want to start a fen. I'm thirty five, okay too, so I wanted, oh my god, we could be friends, have a lot in common already. Okay, same. So I was just like, I want to start a family. I'm really old fashioned and I don't like things going backwards and right. It's crazy. So I'm not I'm not having a baby. I'm not doing any of that. Say like, we already lived together. That's bad enough for me, because I was like, I want to do it all in order. So we lived together that where are you from Toronto? Well I was born in Newfoundland, so I'm a really small small town. Yeah, and I moved to Toronto at fourteen. I love Toronto, I think. Okay, so okay, so you want to go in order? Yeah? So um, I was just like this is just crazy, Like we already lived together, we have our first house together, we've been together for so long. Why are we not even talking about marriage? But you want to talk about kids that all he wants to do is talk about filter And I'm like, let's come on, let's go in order here, and um, Finally, he actually proposed to me on an episode of Wags, and we got Yeah, we got married on the season finale. So I think that he was just waiting. He's he's also he also likes everything to be like very perfect, not necessarily in order, but when he has an idea, like he wanted to really make it a surprise and do it when I'm least expecting it, and I was. I felt like I was always expecting it, and so he didn't want to give me you know, he didn't want to do it that way. So he's like, I'm just gonna wait until she gives up. Literally that's where I'm honestly, that's like the thing. Oh my god, did you guys? What was I mean? Did you trust him the entire time? So when Larry and I first met, I was a little skeptical because he was an athlete, and I've dated an athlete prior which sport, so I was already like, I already tested that out. So when I met him, obviously you know he looks like a football player, I could already tell um. When we first met, I was very hesitant, and so it took about two months for him to get me on a date, like we text and stuff, but I was like, I'm newly single. I'm not going back down that road. You know, they get the stereotype obviously, but then there's also something that tells you like, oh my god, he seemed like such a great guy. He's like a mom, is time out? Why are you looking at me like that? You you were the stereotype. So and he's looking at me last week, all right, let's keep you going, baby, And he's like looking at me like, see, we're not all like that. You were like that, so don't even give me that stereotypical. So we already have a wall up when it comes to any athlete, just because of what we see, what we hear, what we might have been through. So I did have that wall up, and it was like a secure wall. So he really had to like take each brick out one by one. It took like two months and then I was like, okay, we can go to dinner. And then you know, I'm just like I felt like I was judging everything that he did because I was just so like, you know, you were almost wanting it to not work. Yeah, I was. I was like, this is just not going to work. And I was so against the whole athlete thing, and I was like, we can be friends. But then he was just like so different. But then you tell yourself like, of course he's so different. He wants to date you. He's gonna like, you know, you're beautiful. Yeah, So I gave him. I gave him a while before we started like really dating seriously. I think we met in December and we started seriously dating like the end of Martha. So he wanted to introduce me to his mom right away, and he was like, I found it really cool that he just has a sister and his mom. So I'm like, maybe he is different. He was raised, you know, by women, and he has a little sister, so he knows how. He knows how women should be treated. Start your ring is like blind I saw minutes ago. My god, it is so pretty. Do you how long of you has been married? Then we've been married, Um, it'll be two years in May. Have you guys started the baby making process? Not yet actually, which is so weird because I thought when we got married, I'd like, okay, let's go. And I think even in the season finale, bags, I was like, all right, do you want to start working on a baby now. So you know, everybody was like get married, get married another, like one of you have them babies, and I'm like, it's been almost two years. So I just think that it's all timing right now. Our careers are, you know, Larry's um very busy and I'm very busy, and we're both traveling a lot, so it's just hard to like make like a plan to really go for it. But I think we're getting more now into let's just see what happens and let let it all happen naturally. But we're not really like planning it, so we'll see what. You have a bathing suit line now, So what inspired you to make a baiting suite line? So I've been modeling since I was like twelve years old, so it was very heavy into fashion um and then moving to l A. I was actually living in New York for seven years, and then when I moved to l as when I met Larry, and then also when I moved here because of the weather here naturally, like the jobs that I was booking, UM was a lot of swim were a lot of beach stuff, a lot of like it was just a body body, body, body body and I wasn't used to that because being in New York, I was just doing more fashion, more editorial. So um, I just started noticing, like some suits are not like it's it's very hard to find something like for every body type, every size, you know, because I was working with girls who were like skinning and working with you know, plus size women, and I just found like, I was like, why don't I just try to like do this. My mom was a seamstress growing up, so she you know, I was always sewing all my clothes, making all my Halloween costumes, and if there was anything that I wanted, my mom but like I can make that for you, and she'd literally get on her sewing machine and like I'd have an outfit like that. So I think a part of watching my mom so and a part of being you know, a model being in the fashion world wanted. I just wanted to. I wanted to make something that you know, could make every girl feel what size do you go up to? I go up to a large right now, but I'm expanding right now, and I want to so extra small too large now, and I want to go I want to go to like double. I think I'm going to go to double X, so maybe my next collection. That's awesome. So yeah, I started off like more sexy and like more unique pieces that you can wear to like beach parties and stuff like that, to incorporate it, like wearing wearing body suits. And then my I just get feedback from my customers and I listened to what they say and what they want and where are you selling them at? So right now it's online only. Okay, what's the website? Um Neia Lynn Collection, So that's an I A L Y and N collection dot com. What is your biggest issue with Larry? The biggest? I just like to just get real persons. It's just like what is it Like, what do you guys fight about the most or what just really gets you? Just piste off at him? She's like, where do I start? Then just walk on out? No, I was just like, did you guys fight a lot when you like, did you fight about being married before you're married? Like I want to get married. I want to get married. Yeah, and then and then you got married in that and then we got married, and then I just I'm so, let's just start off a sing. I'm really stubborn. So he is like I feel like he's like a genius. He's the smartest person I know. And anytime he like reads thousands of books and right now, every time I feel like he's into a book or he's like right now he's reading grain brain. Have you heard of that? Okay? So now every time I eat something, he's staring in my face leave me alone, Like every time eat food, okay, he's like, there's gluten in that, and there's this and that. I'm like okay. And anytime he reads something or like learns a new way of, you know, doing something, he'll preach and he'll like sit down and want to teach me and like preach it to me, and I'm like, can you please let me learn things on my own? Like it's enough just watching you do the right thing. I can kind of grasp and want to do it too and like follow you. But when he tries to like show me like you should do it like this, and do it this and you should do this, I'm just like, oh my god, it's just pushing me further and further from it. Like when you try to force me to do something, that's definitely one thing that really kisses me. I want to be able to learn on my own. I'm that type of person. I pick up on whatever like I can. I feed off of his energy. I watch what he's doing and it makes me want to do it, but he sits me down and tries to make me read like they look, I highlighted this in this book, and he'll highlight it. So now he's gotten to the point where he'll go to bed and he'll be reading at night. And when I wake up, there's a book on the counter with like it's all highlighted. So I should stop highlighting rings and giving rights. He's like, I know you're not going to pick up a book and read it, so I just highlighted it and just leave it out, and if you feel like you want to read it, you could read it. I'm like, oh my god, it So that's there's that. I love that. Well. You're you're really sweet. Do you drink wine? You drink We could be friends for real. And Larry just told me yesterday actually that a glass of red wine a day is really good for you. Very good. She that everybody, did you know she's a wine nicole. You're so sweet. I love you. Thank you for coming on. Everyone, go get her collection again. It's n I A L Y N N collection dot com and you're just what your Instagram it's Justice Nick with two with two teas. Yeah, I love it, Thank you, thank you. With all of the rain that's been pouring down on our house in l A right now, there's nothing scared than the flooding or leaking that can occur in our garage where all of our valuable memories are stored away. That's why we use Legacy Box. All you have to do is end your Legacy Box filled with old home movies and pictures and they'll do the rest professionally digitizing your moments onto a thumb drive, digital download or DVD. It's easy to follow instructions and safety barcloads include are included for every item. Get personalized updates at every step as well. Legacy Boxes the world's largest, most stressed digitizer of home movies and photos. They have over a decade of experience and all work is done by hand right here in the US. There's never been a better time to digitally preserve your memories. Visit Legacy box dot com today to get started. Plus, for a limited time, they're offering our listeners an exclusive discount. Go to leg see box dot com slash Janna to get off your first order. Go to legacy box dot com slash Janna and say today get started preserving your past. So this next guest guests, This says, how do you say that? Guests? The next guests, the next guests. But it's like, it's like when you asked for risks. I'm really are time saying risks because I'm like, it's it sounds like an echo risks. It's just very strange. I don't like it. Anyways, I'm gonna be really honest. I might be a little quiet in this next interview. I'm super triggered. Oh I'm not. I want to know everything, but I think it's I am going to be very I'm I'm judgmental over it and I'm triggered about it. Well, and speak on that because it's interesting. When I was watching that, like a promo video that Tori had sent one of the couples, I don't remember which one it was. We're talking about sister wives. One of the couples. Which one was it, but basically the same kind of deal. The the potential sister wife and the husband were texting and the wife was reading their conversation and it basically kind of seemed like they were sexting a little bit, and the wife was like, this is this feels like cheating to me and the white and the wife was like, I'm not actually, I don't think I'm okay with this. Was this Dmitri and Ashley? No, this is not this is another couple. I don't remember. Then they brought her on board as a wife. Well, I don't know what this is just the teaser for this season. Can you play the basics of this? This is a guy married to multiple women right now, he's married to Ashley, but Vanessa is here, and he is courting Vanessa to be the sister wife. But we actually sisters. They're just multiple because legally, polygamy is not legal in any state, right, but so there cannot be another Salt Lake City or Utah. No, they know They're thing is actually even stricter where you cannot have a marriage license with another person. But even in Utah, you cannot have another adult living with you that has some type of marital relationship with you in the same house. Well, then how do they have these TV shows? Then? I'm sorry, I'm quiet I'm so confused. Did you all ever watch Big Love? No? It was an amazingly good show on HBO. I didn't Bill Paxton. He died, I know, God rest his soul. He had three wives and they each had different houses, all next to each other, but they were always in fear of getting caught, getting arrested. I guess you can arrested. They have a TV show. They have a TV show about this, so the cops can go to their house. They know what's going on. So I'm just I'm super confused. Just so I know where you stand there? Where do you stand on this? I'm like, I'm like, not kidding, I'm just a little confused. So this man is married to all these women or he's just dating these women's he's married to. He's married Ashley. And then the whole concept is that they bring in another or female as another quote unquote wife like acts like a wife, but legally is not. So that's the thing I want to ask them, how do they must be a wife but legally they're not. Legally they're not allowed to be. Stand on this, Michael, what's your stance on it? Oh, I don't believe in polygamy? Well, I have a question for you. Though. They're basically just having an open affair. So you believe in closed doors affairs. I'm obviously nothing more, but it's like an open affair. It's like an open relationship because people are consensual. There's not an affair. If it's if she agree, if Ashley agrees, I'm just being Devil's advocate and I'm being I'm just being super triggered. So I'm like, Okay, you're you don't agree with this, but you agree with closed doors affairs. When I agree, my heart is racing. So that's because that's what you did. So I'm like, that's what. That doesn't mean I agree with it, but we might find out that maybe, like one of these girls is like, I'm not actually down with it. I'm gonna get them, but don't feel like you have to hold back. You can you want to say maybe with like a nice tone. Guys, my heart is why are you staring at me like that? I'm just looking at you. I'm just you're not using a nice tone with your husband. Oh my god. Okay, sorry, Mark, but I just I get very upset. I understand where you're coming from. I get it because it is I mean, I get it. Well, I was just saying like, oh, I don't agree with this, but I'm like, oh, but you agree I'm doing. I'm sorry, Mark? Is this better tone? You agree? But you agree with having an affair on your wife? That's better? What when did I say I agree with all of a sudden you bring words in our mountains? Doesn't mean it? But you? But okay, so but you did it though right and I was wrong? Okay, okay, okay, okay, time out really fast, okay, so real time talk. I hate going to the grocery store. I just do. Especially with two kids. I usually forget the shopping list. Will usually has a taddler meltdown because I say no to her when she wants something in the aisles. So one of my most used apps on my phone is insta Cart. It's groceries delivered within an hour, or you can set it so a lot of times when we're traveling and we don't have groceries, you can put when you want the groceries to to delivered. So if we're flying in from Nashville and landing in l A at three, I can have the groceries there by four. It's amazing. They're shoppers that shop for your groceries and they always pick the best produce. Um. You know, they they're very good at selecting your groceries. UM. Instat cart keeps your items hot if they're hot, cold if they're cold. All you have to do is go to insta cart dot com and shop the groceries that you need. Try instat cart and get ten dollars off your first order. To get this limited time offer, go to instac cart dot com or download the mobile app and enter my promo code jam check Out. That's ten dollars off your first order today at instacart dot com or through the mobile app and don't forget to enter my code Janna instacart dot com or through the mobile app with my code Janna at checkout to get ten dollars off your first order. Like I said, it's my most used app and it's so easy. Mike, I'm gonna let you do the intros. Everyone that just came in. Thanks, You're welcome, sweet high So now here in the studio we have Dmitri, Ashley and Vanessa from Sister Wives on t LC and it's actually Seeking Sister Wife, Seeking Sister Rife I'm sorry, that's another show. Good to know. You're right, you're redirected the second season of Seeking Sister. Okay, So, Dmitri, you are married to Ashley. Ashley, how long have you guys been married for now? I'm plus years now, plus years okay. And Vanessa over there you are wanting to marry her as well. Yeah, so you're gonna have to, like yuh, educate me because I am married to my husband and I do not want another female in our relationship ever, which just full disclosure, I did have an affair. There's infidelity in our relationship that was two and a half years ago, was discovery and that we've recovered in our marriage and relationships. So that's something that we've gone through. So that's an added element to this whole situation that Janna feels a little bit triggered because the things that we've been through in our personal relationship. So it's just interesting to us just because of what we've been through. Yes, so that is where forgive me the tone comes in. It's not directed towards any of you. Oh yes, all start time. I'm just are you okay with us? Yeah? Why you signed up for m I studied anthropology, So I have a completely different outlook on polygamy as a viable family dynamic. UM, it's not emotional for me. It's like, I respect and value the communal, feminine centered family in UM, I feel like working with another woman cooperatively together to raise a family and to create businesses, you know, build a life together. It's just stronger in my mind. And I've seen it, you know, in my academic studies. UM, and I wanted to recreate that for myself. And do you guys have kids? We do? How many kids? Three? You have three kids? And how are the kids around this? I mean, do you see it? Yeah? Yeah, they love having an extra mommy, you know, around they don't know any different children or when they're in their native environment, they don't. They don't know, Like you don't know you're broken to people make fun of you, you know what I mean. So it's just it just is like you don't have to explain or define monogamy. You don't have to explain. I mean, you're define in the context everyone else may perceive you. But it just it just literally is. And they're younger, So six the news the oldest she's six. Um Neil's four and then Cannadi is one. So how do you go about finding Vanessa? Like what was what was that like, Hey, we're married, you want to join in on our marriage? Or how did how did that conversation start? I'll answer that. Okay, take it away, Vanessa. So kind of a long ster, I'll try to keep it short. Uh. Last year sometime I was on Twitter and I saw this show Seeking Sister Wife trending pretty high, and I was like, what is this. I've heard of Seeking Regular Sister Wives, but you know, Seeking Sister Wives, and people were talking about this other wife on the show and I was like, well, this show sounds juicy. Let me check it out. This sounds and nuts. Um. So I started watching it falls to um, you know, Mormon white traditional polygmacs families, um. And then I see Ashley Dmitri and I was like, whoa polygamas can look like this? They and they seem so like cool and normal and you know, kind of like me. Um. But I was still kind of like, you know, polygami is for like other people, because I get it, like, you know, I, for one, have been cheated on in the past, and it's the secrecy and the going behind the back and everything. With this, it's all out in the open, like she wants me here. Um. And so anyways, I'm kind of getting off track here, but um, when I started thinking about it, I'm like, okay, Like, um, I love men exclusively, but when I live with my friends that are girls, it's so much fun, Like we have fun and everything. And I'm like, Okay, with this type of situation, I could have an awesome husband and an awesome you know, best friend to live with who could share motherhood and all that and have it all in one house. So you guys don't hook up them, Okay. So there's so many questions, give them all in order. How long So you guys have been married? On was ten years? When did this Has this been from the beginning? You guys have kind of damn been polygamous day one. Yes since day zero and then I mean yes since day zero. When I met her, I was like, my name is dmitri Um. I'm a workaholic. I dreel when I'm really tired, and this is my vision version of the family unit, you know what I mean. So I didn't want to waste time fed off the bone. Le's get straight to it. If we're going to fail this fail fast for sure. Um had that and she didn't say no. Okay, I was like winning, And again I didn't say no because it wasn't new for me. It was something that I had heard of before, and I just thought it was the Universe's way of playing a little joke. Get be prepared for this new life that I was going to be living. So have you guys had a sister wife before in your relationship or is just the first time, like you're really are you just seeking a new one? Or have you guys had one in the past quite a bit Over the years, we had a lot of growing to do, a lot of mistakes to make figuring, you know, things out more the mistakes on my side, you know what I mean. It's just, you know, this is this thing where you have to buy for Kate, like the immaturity of being a guy right versus like our functioning adult relationship. It's going to be my question, how did you look at it not as cheating or you know what I mean? Like, how were you like this? Like do you have other partners or is it just him? And then how is that? I would be like, well, wait, why don't just come home with a chick and say like, well, here you go, like, just make it work, like it's it's a consensus. Well, initially he was like, you find and that was hard because you know, um, the shows weren't out yet. People weren't aware of this even being a real thing outside of a book. So it was like, you find her. And then I was like, well, I don't know how to talk to girls, like, because women know women better than men. We just doing our threshold and requirements are this big. It doesn't take a lot for a man. Just just be alive and we're happy, you know what I mean. And I'm being facetious, but like, and I've had I've had women that were more interested in me, and I'm like, well that's not gonna work. And that's how I feel like it would be so hard to be like I just yeah, yeah, I mean, and then or if the woman was more interested in him, because I'm super jealous, so I would go absolutely well I could, and so how did you like? Well, so here here it is for me. And this is a testament to Ashley because coming in as this second woman, it's kind of like, oh easy, you know, she built this whole family and life and children. I can't imagine being the first wife and doing that and then being open arms to me. So that's how gracious she is. I'm just kind of like, oh, here I am, Hey, let me kids, Hey guys. You know it's it's been so much easier for me. So are you going to have kids with Dmitri? I mean I would love to and you would be okay with that? Absolutely? Yeah? Yeah? Did the TV element make this way easier? I would think that a little bit of fame, a little bit of notoriety. I'm sure you've got haters, but like having more public did that make it easier you mean to find easier to find or easier easier to live in a society that maybe isn't as accepting of this. Well, I think it's it's probably if you try affected out. Everyone's got their different perspective from me. It never mattered it just because I just it just is like I'm going to live this way regardless. I don't need your approval, I don't need your your confirmation like this is what's going to happen. So um No, it didn't make it, It didn't change anything, and per se um it brought more awareness to it, and quite frankly, probably more scrutinous. So I have to not really defend but educate. If people really want to understand why and what, then it's more of that conversation has been brought forward. What couse you to have that mindset of this is what a family dynamic looks like. For you guys, I need uh actually said you studied an anthropology and everything. But for Dmitri, like, what was it? Was it your upbringing? Was it religious beliefs? Is it just something you realize on your own? Yeah, something I realized on my own. Um, not religious, so to spiritual there's him heard they out there for sure doing it. Um. For me, it's about feminine centricity. I feel like, um, the um, the ability to take care and labor um. This real world is is the man? Is the job of a man, you know what I mean? I think women should be able to express their creative freedom. So if I can take care of you know, work and bills and all that good jazz, they can birth epic things. And that could be in a form of children, of course, or it could be in the context of companies or projects or just passion. Projects could be whatever, what if what if she wanted to have another man? Yeah, so I mean and she can speak to this as well, right, Um for us, I mean that changes the dynamic. This is how, this is what because what we're doing is called polygamy or polygony specific specifically, if we have another man, it would change to polyandry polyamory, so they're different relational constructs. We agreed to and understood that we're gonna do polygamy, so one masculine energy, multiple feminine energies, and if that changes, that's fine. We'll probably keep crying, scream and just part of ways because that's not what we initially. If she just wants to like because if you get to sleep with two women, if she wants to go out and have a you know, screw another dude, why why is that a problem that she's not going to mess up that scenario. But if I mean, if you're getting it, I feel like that's a little what depends on the relationship as to be true, saying like for our relationship specifically, we signed up for the feminine aspect of it, and me personally, I'm not interested in another guy. I believe that feminine energy built and creates, whereas masculine energy is destructive. And that's why when you put a bunch of men in the room, they usually tearsh it up. You know. It's like, so that's not what I'm into. Um, and so it just it wouldn't work for our family dynamic. That does not mean that it's not possible for other people to live that way. Um, it's just not you know, And it's not about parr It's not about sexual parody either. It's not like where you get to have sex with excellence. I want sex with why? Like, that's not the it's not the measure to say, well you get to have something so I could have them too, or if you don't, there's a disparity. Now, that's not you know, that's not how you as you're in our relations In our relationships, some people do measure that way. They're like if it needs everything needs to be equal, you know. Yeah, like if you did a then I get to do what was the hardest. I'm sure, like you said, its trial and err throughout the last nine ten years off y'all's relationship to figure this out and to try to figure out the boundaries on what you both need to make this successful. What has been the hardest obstacle along with that that has kind of repeated itself and kind of making this a successful relationship between the three of you. I'm sure there's more one. I mean, the hottest part is from the man's perspective, is getting past because so like we started off with her trying to find the woman. Then I would try to find her, and then we I would be attracted to the woman. She's like, no, dice like this is she does not fit, is not gonna work. Or again, she might have an attraction, but you know a different type of attraction to the woman. And I'm like, I'm that interested. She drives me nuts. So how do you reconcile you know, these wants and desires into a single person and aggregate that in a way that's gonna you know, work for Like yeah, to come. Um, So I think to answer your question, the challenges from me in particular, we're just being able to move in lockstep with her, not move ahead of her. Um. Again, as a guy, you you win. I mean again, we were competitive. So like I'm trying to, you know, let you know that you're good, you're taking care of I can pay your bills and you know everything's taken, you know, So how do you do that without pre selling the woman or getting her all jazzed up and she's not even there yet, like's not That's definitely hard. And I do think to like knowing what your boundaries are and what you'll accept and the things that will make or break your relationship. I don't think you really know those initially until you actually start trying everything. Yeah, so that's why a lot of relationships have failed. So what is Vanessa? What is y'all status? Right now? We're dating? So you're just dating and you guy, but you two live together? You two live together? Yes? Do you just like live next door or you down the street or do you live in the house as well? I am visiting? So yeah, I mean do you want to get married to her? Okay, isn't that illegal? Well, so we don't believe in state recognized marriage, Like I don't need a piece of paper to to ratify my marriage, right, her last name is mine. We got all the financial instruments and legal instruments in place. Should I expire in all the good jazz, that's no different. Well, how does that keep Vanessa safe? Them? Like let's say, like crap goes down if you say you're married to her, but then hey, nothing's on paper. You can't really take that to the court where you can't. So then you leverage those fiscal and legal instruments. So again she changed her last name, she can have her own insurance policy. She's got I mean, she's got her account. Like there's literally your marriage certificate just makes it the paper trail shorter into a single document. I have to have a couple more documents. But she has the same exact power you would. So you guys couldn't go to jail for what you're doing. Then, because we're not legally married. That's big of me, and no we can so for since we've been clear since day zero, we're not legally married. But again she has my legal last name. You can do whatever you want. And so that's how we protect ourselves for sure. Legally. What is your parents in Vanessa? Um? So unfortunately my father passed away from sixteen years ago. That's okay, um. But so my first trip to go out to see them, my mom and step mom took me out to um to dinner for my birthday, and so I grew up with my mom and stepmom being extremely close. My stepmom is an amazing woman, so I always felt like I had like sister wives, you know. So when I told him, I was gonna tell it first, and I was like, I'm gonna go visit him, but it could be nothing, so I won't. But then I was like, you know, I'll just tell them. And they're so lovely and open minded. They're both papies and they're like, this is wonderful, this is a great lu. So where are you from? Um born in New Jersey, but grew up in Seattle, Okay, And what were you looking for going into this? Did you have like a clear mindset on what why you wanted to get into this kind of relationship and and what was it in Dmitri and Ashley, It's like, okay, this could work with them. Yeah, so um, you know, like I was saying earlier before I golf track, I um watched the show and then I was like, about four episodes in, I was like, they communicy Kate so well, they're so lovely, Like something's gotta be off here. Let me doing some investigating and I found some Dimitri's Instagram and so I'm like looking through his photos and I'm like, okay, this is his real wife and children, and blanking some photos. He said, I like thirty photos. I like like five photos. I would never do that, not that extra. So that the next day, um, he had written on one of my pictures and we started talking and then he direct messaged me and and UM, He's like you know, um, because I was like, oh, I love you and Ashley I'm a fan. And he's like, you know, thank you so much for the kind words. He's like, there's been a lot of backlash for the show. He's like, I told Ashley, if we find our forever wife after this, she'll be a keeper. So at that point, I was like, is he fishing for me right now? Like this sounds like he's I'm like, well, you know, hanging there, you guys are wonderful. You'll find someone in your save same wavelength. Like I don't share, but you know, good luck to you. And then I was like and as I'm saying this, I'm like, man, like, you know, I just I just I could tell I had a vibe with him, but I was just kind of like whatever, he started following me, I started following him. I'm watching the show UM as the week's progress and the finale. Last year, they go on a date with this woman, this lovely woman UM to do this painting thing and have some wine. Um And the woman's kind of being really quiet and awkward. And I'm watching with my friend and I'm like, why is she being so quiet? Like if I was there, we'd be having wine, would be painting at the best time. And I just kind of had this epiphany. I was like, am I being close minded here? Like? What could I be? Like? What who they're looking for? Like what you know, what am I afraid of here? What am I like so against? And I'm like this could be everything I didn't always everything I didn't know I always wanted in a way. Um, And so I was like, you know what. It was a couple weeks later, but I was like, I'm just gonna write him back, just you know, maybe they found somebody. Maybe I'm just gonna just talk to them. So I slipped back into his d M s and then then we all started talking and it was just like magic. So there's no jealousy at all. It's like he's starting to like you more or vice versa, or I mean there's not you don't have any of jealousy and any of y'all's bones. No, I don't. Yeah, it's not like I said, I used to be a very jealous person. But that was like because it's it's such a different dynamic when you're dating in monogamy in that sense, like we're all so close in friends and we talk about everything. The way they communicate, that's what I what I saw. I was like, that's what's missing in my life with that level communication and honesty and openness in a relationship. If everybody communicated the way they did, there would be it is a place, would be a better world. And so I was like, I want in on this and it's been a hard struggle. Um, it's not easy, but I'm looking forward to hopefully progressing. You know, with them, it's like you in monogamy you can kind of hide, right because you can have I mean, people have whole other relationships outside as we know, right in monogamy, but like I enjoy the pressure. I can't hide, like I have to be vulnerable. And by the way, in context to what makes her specifically her and same as her, so she has her own way that she communicates how we communicate. She has a different way. Can't copy this love plan atop either of these women and make, you know, expect it to work. I have to be up front, I have to be Claire, I have to be concise. But I don't understand. We have to talk about it so regardless of the challenges and how hard it's been, like we just we own it, like we just cut this and get straight to it, like let's get to the business. And so there's no space for jealousy. I mean, why would you want two women? Though? I mean I'm enough wife for him, like learning how to communicate with two different ones? Like God, I'm like, it's impossible for Yeah, it's like that's I mean Louise. Yeah, I just again, I love the pressure. I love that it makes me better, Like I have to do you want another one? Like how many? How many do you want? Yeah, there's no magic number, there's not a goal, right, um, And quite frankly, it's up to them, right, So if Vanessa actually comes home when we make this work and it's like it is what it is, which we're moving on that that path, then it's up to them. You know. I don't know why. I mean, I get that, but at the same time, like, man, you'rely reaping every single benefit. See that's what That's what most I think where I'm just like, he's just the guy that like he's like, yeah, what else? Well yeah, but what guy doesn't want that have different partners and have sex. I mean, that's why it has been cheated on me. Wanted to you know, like come on, it's like what but now you need to be open. Sorry, but you need to be open about it, you know. But I used to think the same thing because I've seen this Sister Wife shows on. I'm like, okay, that's for them, okay, But then I'm like, well, I've been looking at this all wrong. Like on paper, yes, it looks like the guy has everything, but honestly, I think Ashley and I get more out of it than Damshi. Sometimes I find him bad for him, like you know, but you'll you'll see the show progresses, hopefully and as if we progress, um that it's you know, there's just something about you'll just have to see. Um. I think actually I get more out of it than him. Well please please. The second season of Seeking Sister Wives airs every Sunday on TLC at ten pm Central. What can our listeners PM Eastern Pacific? Look, I have Eastern time nine Central? Well, who put ten nine where? Whatever? Without the women in my life right here? Um, So, so you guys have to watch? What can we Vanessa is gonna? What can we expect? What can we expect in the second season moving forward? What can everyone expect to see anything? You're just going, well, I'm going to watch because I really like you and I'm warming up to you, to you Dmitri and I can you're just like I bowed down to you. Miss So thank you so much, you guys for coming on the show so much. Thank you. Who wants to start? Clearly you probably do? No, No, I'll wait. I'd like to hear what you like. I don't know. I wrote some notes, Sarah. I did because what I really cannot get over because I'm so competitive that I know you are too. Who's better in the bedroom? Honestly, I just wanted to be like, all right, ladies, like how are you keeping it spicy? Like it's competition? Essentially he's sleeping with both I see why, especially in this kind of why are you taking your wedding ring off? You? Literally just your wedding ring off hand sanitized other under my rain and even get anyways. I can see why in polygamy, when is a single male in multiple female, I can see why women on the outside would just think of it as, oh, it's just all about the sex. I see that. That's how our society kind of thinks about it. Just hearing them talk, I can see I don't personally believe this. I can see why maybe there's more of a some more of a it's more to it than just sex. I can that's all. I don't know how to explain it. I can just see how they have like an understanding and where it's more than just that. Didn't you think that? Um? Actually, Ashley was the wife way more like calm and jam I almost kind of felt like she was like and then Vanessa was like kind of being like, yeah, it's hard, it's but I felt like I was getting like vans Vanessa's to herself, very comfortable, very you know. That's just it's almost like she didn't stop off once, Like she didn't even say one like thing that was like me because they've been doing it for nine ten years, but like there's a lot of things people have been doing for a nine or ten years that are still weak Like yeah, but she hearn tell that she that's just her thing, that that's you know, she's she's comfortable with that. I never want someone else to never have temptation to never. Yeah, that's a little because it's for them. It's it's even though they do and say, excuse me, it was anything religious, it's still a spiritual belief of like what they think the family dynamic is. So it's just like if you tell the Mormon or a Christian or whatever that something about their religion, they're not Just because it might not make sense to other people doesn't mean this is what they believe in. So if the polygamy is what they believe in, that's what they choose to believe, then they're okay with what do you believe in? Michael? Oh really? Question? Mark? Mark? Mark? Mark, I just turned my my off. I just think there's always a favorite, like there's always a favorite no matter what. When you guys walked out for a second, Mark and I were talking about Big Love. The first wife is always in like what I call pole position. She always has like a little more Jews, a little bit more. She's the boss. What you guys need to watch Big Love and then I come back to me. I feel like there's always a favorite, So back on, Michael, he turned it off. Why are you mad at me? That comment was a little I believe in monogamy? And you're like, really, yeah, really, come on, come on, if you really believe in come on. So I can never say. I can never say the rest of my life, I believe in monogamy because Okay, I was making a joke, jokes to an a certain extent that was not a joke. Well, yes it was. I left. Well, she said before this is obviously gonna be really triggering for her, right, But the jobs, the jobs, like come on, I'm just saying, like we can we like I want to be able to talk about this stuff and not feel like I can't say anything without being being jabbed every time. That's all I'm saying. I'm sorry. I'm sorry that I see that, and I'm sorry that for both of you, and I'm sorry that it's triggering, and I apologize that you're upset that it's triggering for you. I'm sorry I jab do it. I didn't mean the job I was making of a joke, but is very triggering when you say that that's what you believe in, but yet you don't live that. I do love that you didn't live that. Okay, then that's different saying I don't live that and I didn't live that. It's totally different. Currently presently for the last two and a few years, I lived. That sounds good sometimes, Michael, I'm just gonna throw one thing in there. Humor or sarcasm can be healing so sometimes, but it's also can be your way of of hiding feelings behind something. Well, with my feeling is, I'm like, well, don't say that. What would you rather say? What do you believe in? Michael? I believe that. I was no. I would have said, like, I know you might not believe this because of my past, but I believe you know, it's just say it's just a triggering situation. But I would like to say, though, wouldn't it be easier just to have done that instead? Like I mean, is something where you could and you could do that? Because I didn't know we're talking about us. I thought we were talking about the people in here, and you just ask me a question, what do you believe in? My personal belief is monogamy? Right? Yes? I didn't live by that right, so that's just triggering. I understand that. I believe you, Michael, I believe you. I believe me. I believe you too. Okay, everyone looked. Tell me, I'm just staying silent in the corner. But like, oh, I think obviously thing. I think it's interesting and I think that like, I respect you guys so much for being willing and and be open like that, and yes, we're going to have, you know, difficult interviews like that where it does trigger, and then it becomes so interesting and Jan is so open, like she's so you know, letting it out. I think that it was a joke, but there was like it was your way of being funny but also hurting. And he gets because I'm the same way I make jokes and I'm uncomfortable, but it obviously hurt. Ye. Yes, I'm sorry that you were triggered and that these past feelings came up for you, and I can understand why they would. Okay, I'm shutting down. No. Now I feel like I'm like in pre school and I'm like, okay, you apologize, now, you apologize. I did apologize. I said I'm sorry. Okay, look at me now, make eye contact with them. My question is, like, what happens now? Because I like him, you know, my heart is breaking a little bit for both of you because jan is emotional and Michael's emotional and it's so raw. So what happens now? Is this where we go sideways and then like you guys, hold onto it? Is there any way to like talk a little bit more and then really let go and be okay when you walk out of the room, Well, how much time do we have? Whatever? You know? No, I just again, I just when you say that that's what you believe and then you didn't do it, that's just very triggering. What would you okay, calmly and realistically, what would you rather me say? And now? Moving forward in situations like that? Is it something where you acknowledge the past in the pain? I think? How much longer is he going to have to acknowledge the past in the pain? That was my question, like, like, I'm like, obviously, come on, but you know, for a little bit longer you what will make you feel better? Maybe for a long time? I think so, And I think that's okay, and that's okay, and I think that you both know that and that's okay, right, and I and I do I agree. I do know that, and I think that is okay. There are there some instances where I would like to just when we're talking about someone or something else where, I would like to just say what I believe in without having to go into a back story of hey, I'm sorry, blah blah, but this is my opinion on something like at times, am I going to want to be able to do that? Sure? Absolutely, Maybe with this I should have been more conscious of it being so triggering and acknowledge that, so I apologize sincerely. I do. Okay, Okay, I'm sorry that I made a joke trigger that was a little harsh. Sarah's Yeah, I think that neither of you need to apologize for how you both felt, do you know what I mean? Like the joke maybe whatever you compologize for that Michael can apologize for, like maybe not staying more calm or centered from the joke. But like what you both feel is so real, And I acknowledge your emotions here and you both deserve to have them. Yeah, And I do believe Mike. I believe that he currently is the current mode is on monogamy. I don't believe and wants a cheater always a shooter. I think we can grow from our mistakes. Thank you, Mark. Wow, I agree. I agree with that too. We all agree with something delution or what is that? I don't know. We're growing, We're growing, We're growing. Nothing feels more appropriate right now than a commercial. Wow? Thank god? All right? Mark? Can you read couples too far? Yeah? This is in the mood I think from Haley. This is an email sent to Jane Kramer at i heeart media dot com. What are your thoughts on couples who don't fart in front of each other talk about their bathroom time? I think that it's weird. Our friends are getting married and her soon to be husband has never farted in front of her. He never has. I get trying to keep some mystery and trying to impress the other person. But going through life and always holding your farts and not ever truly relaxing sounds not so fun. Wait, you've never fared in front I okay, let me tell you something really funny. No, I mean he's had a little slip ups, but I just like die laughing and then like we don't, like, I can't focus on anything. For the rest of the day. But literally the four years. In four years and we're in New York. Every time I had to go to the bathroom or do anything, I was running downstairs to Starbucks. He literally thought I was having an affair because I was like, I'll be right back. I was going to I was like, not happening. I've never been. I never thought you went in a public restroom. I was doing loops. I'm running like, up, where are you serious that you've never farted in front of him or took a poopy in the bathroom. Well, things are getting complicated now that we lived together. Those people had started as he ever heard you? No, wow, No, I mean, don't let Janna fool you. It's it's she and far between with her. She just letting one out the other day. No, No, she was seeing it right behind me at the desk. I just like I. She was holding Jayce and she's like Jay's I'm like, okay, I thought it was going to be silent. Remember the first time I fared in front of you? The first time she farted. We're in a hotel. Who knows what city I was. I think we're in Texas. Yeah, And she fared the same thing she thought was gonna be silent. Was the first time I heard a fart when we started dating. I had it on camera and I videoed. I was video She was like hiding herself off in a corner, like I thought it because he the way he looked at me, I was just like hid in the corner. Not a roomate in college who literally that was their thing. They would sit on top of each other and fart on each other. And I was not happening. Now this guy, I mean, he farts all the time now, But that's like for a guy, at least just for me. When you get to that point in a relationship, it's so like it's like it's like I made it, you know, and thinking about dating all over again. If you think about dating all over again, like I gotta go through the whole process. No, I don't think I get to the point where I can fart in front of her. I just think I mean, if I fart in front of you all the time, I mean, wouldn't you that's not sexy, you know what? That would be cross like we have to And so sometimes I wish that you wouldn't fart as much because I'm like, don't you want me to be attracted to you? And falking? You know right, I'm crazy. All farts in my marriage have been accidental on both sides, happened, but never on purpose. Because I want to be sexy. I think it's embarrassing for the person, like I'll laugh at tie all down the walls, but like I know, he's like, I don't, I'm embarrassed. What's funny right now is that Jolie knows the word far. So I was changing her in the middle of the night the other night. I took her dip off, putting another one on, so she was naked from the waist down, and she farted and she goes oops at fart. She doesn't know how to add the E. I'm far in front of her. It's hilarious. So I do have one more email that it's fascinating right This one takes some real turns that I did not expect, Like a d Lindsay says, I've been married to my husband for six years and we have a five and a half year old daughter, but I'm not sure I love him. I thought it might be because I like girls. My husband and I decided to try a threesome with another woman. I have never really been about sech and to be honest, I enjoyed the threesome, but I still felt like whatever, I never really want sex and I'm not I'm not sure I have ever been in love. What if I'm not capable of loving someone? Is there something I can do? Should I divorce my husband and leave my child in a separate household? Oh boy, that's a lot, I feel. Let's start with the beginning. I feel loveless marriage. I think it's a good place to start, Sarah. I think lovel's marriage is common. A lot of people maybe stay with their Why are you looking at me like that? I'm sorry, both of you are market? Are both looking at you like that? I am not. I have a lot of friends who say that they've fallen out of love with their spouse and that they stay with them just for the kids. I hate that. You start, you're happy, you love your wife. People falling in and out? But that makes me sad. I think people can go in and out of love. Yeah, and I think that's some of my friends. I think have felt that, and they, you know, but they stay because they have kids, and I, you know, I know I've you know, so I can see her saying, but I've also loved my husband and you like what and I do? Yes? A while because didn't she say she doesn't like suck. Yeah, she never really wants it, she's never been in love. She thought maybe women nah, like it doesn't sound like sounds like she's on like pills or something like depress. Like she doesn't have her like obviously I would say, yeah, to get off. If you're on anything, I would talk to your doctor and get something a little lighter that you can have a more emotion. I wonder I wonder if she knows what her love languages are, just because that could be interesting for someone who, like you said, you guys are saying, like she seems numb. We'll find out how you register love. Yeah, and if it's not him, then you don't want to stay in a loveless marriage forever. That's but if she educates herself on that and then tells her husband, hey, this is how I receive love, give it a time, Give it a time for him to trial that and be like, if he's doing those things and she still doesn't feel it, Mark is just like it was a very evolved response from thank you, Jesus, thank you. Yeah, maybe he does believe in monogamy after all. No, but that that is that is a very honey, That is a very very evolved therapeutic response. I bet if they talk to each other, he'd probably be like, yeah, And you know, I kind of get it. I can feel like you don't love me, and this is what I This is how I would like to receive thank you to Legacy Box. Go to legacy box dot com, slash Janna and say today instacart get ten dollars off your first order. To get this limited time offer, go to instacart dot com or download the mobile app and enter our promo code Janna during check out. Oh, you know what, we forgot to talk about? What we've to talk about using Mike's razor? What is wrong with that? Does your wife users what? They're not as good as I prefer the woman's razor. It's softer on my skin. I like the way it's I'm a little delicate. Yeah, I do prefer hers. You know. It's really funny about this though. I'm glad you brought up here because yesterday you showered first, and I was gonna ask you. I saw. I looked in the shower and my razor it looked like it was turned. It was turned a different way. I know you didn't because and I started, but what's crazy? I wants brought this up to you. I started feeling like anxious, like angry because it's something small. She didn't end up I ended up seeing her razor that she brought into the bathroom because it wasn't there before. But like these razors are expensive, Like I I have a strategic amount of times that I used one razor because I mean, I show my face. I shave my head like a ball guy. We used it a lot, so to know that she might use that and use it areas and I put it on my face. It really, it really does give me anxiety, Like it really does bother me. Why does it bother you that I shave my kuha and then you put on your face. I'm sorry, I'm sorry because it's point inside. It's just the just the and if you shave your legs, even if you shave your legs and then I shave my legs are cleaner than your face, it's not, it's just still it's still your skin in bacteria it's still those things just like dirty. Okay, it's just like just like I would like to use my towel, but yesterday I used my towel, so I had to use your towel. When you get out of the shower, you're clean, Michael, I still like to use my towel. I'm sorry, it's just what I like to I like to use my towel. I like to use my razor I use out of the shower. Are you I don't ever want to use your too the best. That's disgusting because that's like you you're getting like steak out of your teeth. But when you get out of a shower, When you get out of a shower, you are physically clean, unless you don't wash your body with soap. All right, just picture this picture. I use your towel and I'm clean, put up my cleaning everything, drying it all off. And guess what next time you Next time you shower, you take that same part of the towel. Little do you know that's where my butt was? You up, you're drying your face. We're clean or not? That's a fop thought. Well, if it's clean, I don't care. You make me go down there anyway, So I got no shame in that game. Season. I don't know. We're done. You're welcome. Oh my god,