Whine Down with Jana KramerTeen years can be tough for everyone, so Jana is preparing by talking to Chelsey Goodan, an author and specialist who spent 16 years working with teenage girls.
Chelsey shares some tips on how to communicate and understand the teen girl in your life.
Plus, discover the wisdom that teenage girls can teach adults about finding power and confidence!
Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast.
This week's Thursday Therapy, We've got Chelsea Gooden. She is an author, screenwriter, and keynote speaker, and you can get her book that's out now, Underestimated the Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls. Let's get her on. Hi. Hey, where are you podcasting from?
I'm in La.
You're in La? Okay? Are you born and raised in La? Or what's your thing?
I'm from Colorado and then I went to college in NYU and then came right out to La. I've been here a long a long time, all right.
So you have a book out called Underestimated the Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls, And I'm I'm very excited to talk to you because my daughter's only eight. But you know, I've already started to go, oh, dear, like those those teenage years, right because I remember how I was as a teen, but then also the things that I didn't also have all the technology that teens have now, and so I'm just I feel very not equipped right now. So I'm like, I feel like I need to get on reading books like this experience like this.
Book will you will love it so much? Like I feel really confident, saying that it's kind of it's such an it's an easy read too, and that I make it really accessible for you to kind of find your way into feeling good and confident about this.
Okay, give the elevator pitch then for this book.
This is a book that by the way, I integrated teenage girls voices at every step of this book. They helped choose the chapter titles, they are quoted, They helped edit like they the I am their portal and microphone of what they want to say to the world. That's what I'm here to do. And by us listening to them and what they have to say is what's going to improve our connections and our way to empower their voice, for them to step into their full confidence. And it's it's a different dynamic in the past where it's like a parenting book that let me give you the secrets on what to do to make your daughter do what you want. You know, it's not like that. It's actually about how do we listen to the girls and best support them stepping into their voice and their power. And part of that is taking away a lot of our own personal triggers in charge around these wounds that you just said, like we have in our teenage years. So many of those wounds happen in our teenage years and we carry them into womanhood. And what if instead we helped girls not have that happen to them in their teenage years. I feel like we could change the trajectory for women in general.
Yeah, And so it says here too in your bio. For sixteen years you worked as an academic tutor and mentor specializing in the powerment of teenage girls. What did you see primarily within teenage girls when you were working with them so closely? Like, what was there? What was their biggest asset? And then was something they were like it was tough for them to overcome?
Right, So, one of the biggest things that I can communicate as an overall thing is that teenage girls feel judged and misunderstood. And so what they have as an asp set is that they have these big feelings that we often as a society dismiss and stereotype as emotional and dramatic and mean and crazy. And what happens is is we're actually squashing they're very natural, beautiful, wise spirit by kind of trying to put them in this perfect likable box that all women should be in, and they're actually quite powerful and deep, and that's what I mean. Why it's wisdom on the title, and we are underestimating what they have to offer. So you know, what's kind of going wrong is how we as a society are judging, squashing, fearing, trying to control and what they're natural who they naturally are. So a lot of it is actually just loving them exactly where they're at. So why after sixteen years of working with them is honestly just time after time of them saying beautifully wise things to me that I was like, Oh my gosh, the world needs to hear this. They're underestimating you.
What do you think they're underestimate? Is it the age piece or is it like, oh, you don't know.
Yeah, it's a definitely like brush off, dismiss minimi, ooh you don't know, or it's just like flighty teenage girl interests. I mean, look at their support of Taylor Swift and Barbie. I mean they are powerful force their enthusiasm and love for things and so, but also they're underestimated in how much they see going on in the world and how they are ready for more mature conversations, so to like honesty. One of the chapters is Radical Honesty. Teenage girls are so good at cutting to the truth of things, but people are very not real with them. They try to put on a show just like, oh, it's fine, and they can really see when someone's not being real with them, and they can handle these types of conversations about topics like sexuality or social media or beauty, these things that oftentimes everyone's just like, so scared. Social media is destroying them, so scared. The beauty industry is destroying them. And yes, there are harmful things going on, but the girls want to be a part of the conversation. They want to be a part of the solution, and that's where we're underestimating their voice and participation in the solution.
So do you have kids.
I don't, which actually has helped me be welcomed into this very rare space of trust with the girls. Lots of times they're always like, well, you just don't have parental vibes. So that's why I can share these things with you, right, So it is a little I definitely have some access that a parent might not, and that's why I'm trying to really kind of share with having had that access, what I can offer everybody. That being said, I offer super practical tools in the book too for a parent to better connect with and understand their teenage daughter. And those are tools that I've seen work for parent, nonparent, anybody. It's a kind of there are tools that can be used for anyone.
Right, what do you think are the biggest tools for like Catherine for example, she has a teenage daughter, she got teenage kids. You know again, eventually, you know, me and Chris and our girls will you know, grow to be teenager. So it's what's what do you think of the biggest tools and tips for parents? Because I feel like I keep seeing that one meme where where they're just it's like fighting with my child's like fighting with myself because you're the same person, just a different age. So it's what do you what are some of the tips and tools that you do put in the book well.
To actually first address what you just said again that kind of comes back to our own teenage girl and her teenage girl wounds. I find the more we can heal those for ourself, the more you're going to come to your child with less charge less triggers, and then you can come to her. And this is the key is judgment free tone, genuine curiosity, meeting her exactly where she's at, with no hidden agenda of something you want her to do or control. And because the girl will feel that secret agenda, she'll feel it and the walls will go up. So the whole key is not to have her walls go up and have this true, honest, open dialogue and connection. So another big tool, it's so simple, is phrase everything as a question. So instead of kind of just saying what's going on, ask be like, well, what are your thoughts on that? How do you feel about that? What do you think the solution is? How would you like to handle it? Phrase it all like a question, because then she feels her voices respected, that she can be part of. You're also activating her sense of agency, which makes these solutions more effective anyway. And you know this is a process though, because sometimes a girl will respond like I don't know, and that's not a bad sign. Actually when she's saying I don't know, she needs to also develop this starting to ask herself, check in with herself and be like, wait, what are my needs right now? How do I want to handle this? What would be the best way? And we need to give space and room for a girl to figure that out on her own, and instead we're coming in trying to fix advice, slap positivity on it too fast, and these teenage girls can handle the space of coming up with solutions. So communication technique phrase things like a question your tone. Also, anytime you are going to talk about serious things with your say, teenage daughter or any daughter, making sure she feels heard first before you come in with any thoughts. And then if you are going to offer thoughts and advice, you always ask like, hey, do you want my thoughts on this? And you always involve consent in this type of dynamic. But most of the time, when a girl is sharing really hard feelings, big feelings that often scare parents because you know, you don't want to see your kid in pain, and that's why they come in fast to try to fix it. But when a girl's sharing big feelings, usually all she really needs is just to be listened to, and you just reflect back like yeah, that sucks, Yeah, that that does sound awful, makes sense you'd feel that way, And then her whole body relaxes and she's like, oh my gosh, thanks, No one understood where I was coming from. And it's that simple usually.
Right, What about for the kids that have or for the girls that have a hard time opening up? Like you know, I've already noticed that a little bit with my daughter too, where I'm like, you know, we always we do our you know, hides and lows of the day at the dinner table, and you know, she opens up there. But I also think that, you know, she has a way she just wants to be like, no, everything's great. I like, everything's happy, and you know this this is good. What I'm like, are you sure? Because you seem sad or and maybe that's my own projection, but is there for the girls that have a hard time because maybe they're embarrassed or they don't want to say that they felt left out, or like how do you open that dialogue?
Yeah, it's a great question. You know, lots of times this is laying foundations of trust and communication and that it sounds good, like how you just phrase that as a question where you're just checking in right, and less times they do need some space sometimes, I mean that's a natural part of this age is finding their independence away from their parents. So space isn't always a bad thing, but I find that girls have so much pressure on them to be this perfect, likable, like you know, everything's great, like making sure everyone around them knows they're good and they're great. And it's a dynamic that carries into womanhood with people pleasing and perfectionism, and that I find the more we can affirm a kid, really there's a whole chapter called compliments how we affirm in a different way where we are acknowledging really specifically what makes them special. And I'm even going to use the word weird because a lot of girls are worried about being normal and perfect and when we start actually giving a lot of energy to what makes them unique. And I sometimes don't always use the word unique because it sounds like achievement focused or special, I actually mean weird in a positive way because that's a really helpful portal into their authenticity, like who they authentically are. Because when they start connecting to their weirdness and authenticity, that's when they start kind of let opening up in a way that feels more safe to them. Right, And so you affirm that like, hey, I just noticed that you crack that weird joke about that person, Like I kind of point out really specific moments that I think it's funny and cool with something they did, and it helps them feel seen in a really specific way. That that part of them grows when they feel seen and understood. And so again it's a process, but it's about how you affirm. To me, that's been my experience is affirming that weirdness uniqueness is what helps them find their more unique voice and feeling like they can step into a conversation without having to be worried about saying the right thing. Does that make sense?
Yeah, no, it does for sure. What's one of your favorite chapters in your book that you really felt like they because, like you said, like these are girls voices, so that they really were like wow, you're proud of them to be that open and vulnerable.
Yeah. So, well, just to name a few of the chapters so people can get an idea, it's like perfection, people pleasing, self doubt, shame, beauty, like all kind of struggles we all face and humanity in general. And you know, the shame chapter, I think it really reveals just how much shame happens is inflicted on us in our teenage years for women in particular, and how that shame is really held into adulthood. And so girls were very vulnerable and sharing that part of their life with me and with this book. And then but I'm really also very proud of the power chapter, the last chapter where they share their just vision of a better future. That's another thing too, is the more we can empower them and the way they want to be, the way we're going to we're going to change the world actually, and how we power has been so historically represented by domination, oppression, self interest, status, wealth, these kind of masculine narratives because historically men have been empowered in so many ways. So what they I asked the girls, you know, if what if what would the world look like if the majority of the women, the leaders in the world were women, What would it look like? And their responses were incredible. What they envisioned for us, you know, has to do with equality and generosity and love and care and empathy and all these qualities that aren't seen as powerful. But that's what they would consider to be a leadership style, a feminine leadership style that would inspire them. And that to me got me really excited and then they also shared very much what they feel liberation means to them, to feel like liberated so they can be their authentic self, so they can step into their power. And when they shared that, you know, I do tons of quotes of just them sharing what liberation means to them. And these are girls from very diverse backgrounds, diverse ethnicity, the abilities, everything, and it was all about some type of external thing telling them that they can't be who they want to be. There's so many should they should be this, they should look like this, they should do this, and all they want to do is just be themselves and whatever their authentic self is. And that was really how vulnerably they shared those thoughts too, was amazing.
I mean, yeah, it is. I think. I think I fear a lot with social media now in the hands of girls. And you know, there's someone that I know around that fourteen fifteen age and I'm like, why did she filter her face and her body that like, I know she filtered because I'm very close to this girl, and I'm like, and it broke my heart because I'm like I then thought of my daughter and was like, I don't want her filtering her body and doing body editors and you know, changing her face with filters because she's beautiful, like she doesn't need a smaller nose or this, that and the other. And so I can't imagine living in the world now that teenage girls live in with the accessibility to completely change their look on social media because that's what they think looks better, and that's already then saying well, then you don't have a good like then you your self confidence is low about how you actually look. You're just trying to look like all these other girls. So is there does your book touch on social media at all?
Yes, there's an entire media chapter, and there's an entire beauty chapter, and I yes, I understand that worry and that fear, and it's completely reasonable. Of course, it is a really hard terrain to navigate, and I'm trying to offer some ways into it in a way that acknowledges the fact that social media is not going anywhere. And so as much fear and worry both understandable, there is I talk about it in the chapter. I'm like, we can't fully villainize it, and quite a few futile war against it. We actually have to be asking the girls and including them in this conversation in a big, big way. So and thankfully, you know, even at eight years old, your daughter is a great age to start talking about these things because the sooner you can lay these foundations, the better. But it's again respecting their thoughts on it. So you know, I often would pull I have I'm hanging out looking at social media with girls a lot, and I'll be like, well, okay, what do you think of this image? Do you think it's filtered? Like to filter? Do you think that? Where I'm actually just asking, no judgment, no agenda, what her thoughts are, so that she can start forming what she thinks about it and we can actually be in a safe place to talk about it. And so I'll be like, wait, so what motivated you to add that filter? Like what made you feel good about doing that? What made you feel weird about doing that? Like I'll just again phrase everything as a question with just genuine curiosity. And girls are great at talking about these things with me. It can be maybe harder for a mother daughter dynamic if you're coming in at like age sixteen doing that, but I actually find that you can lay foundations pretty early if you're really respecting her thoughts. So let's say she does say a smart thought like, well, I think that's kind of dumb how she added that filter, Like, oh my gosh, I'm so smart of you to think of that. You know, you affirm them as smart and capable of handling this terrain because the more you trust them, the more they're going to trust themselves. But you have to communicate that trust, and it's tense at first because you're not like sure because it's scary, right, But there where you can vocalize trust, the more they're going to take that really seriously and they'll be like, Okay, my parents trust me to handle this, to navigate this in a healthy way. So I often ask girls too, well, what do you think is a healthy amount of time on social media? And I involve them in that decision too. I don't you never force the choices on them, right, make them have consent in the process.
Oh yeah, I like that. Okay, I think that's good, even just with all things like their iPads and because I just I loathe the iPads and like no go outside, like and it's a struggle with when the kids are in different houses, because some things are allowed this house for us, the other house. And so it's like, Mommy is not okay that you sit there and watch your iPad all day. It's just like go outside like their or play or color or let's play a game together. And so it's that piece is kind of a struggle for me because I just I don't like them on phones or social media stuff. And so you know, my daughter, she's eight and she's asking for a phone. I'm like, it's not happening, Like you're literally going into third grade. You're not getting a phone until. I mean, what I would love is like freshman year of high school. But I know, because you know, we have a divorce family, I might need her to be accessible with you know, a cell phone to like text, but like she ain't getting social media until least high school. And I don't care if you know, if I'm the bad guy in that, but I also know the negative effects of what that does to you mentally too. And the people that come on and just are are awful.
Yeah, And so part of it is you'll be successful in your plan the more you also in a like she feels heard, even if you don't end up doing what she wants. What I've learned is just even creating space of like, why do you like social media? Like what is good about it for you? Or why do you like the iPad? What do you love about that? Time? Let me understand what you love about that?
Okay?
And then when they're just like okay, she gets it at least, then they have this a little bit more openness to compromise to figure out a solution together that feels good for both of you. But I do find the kid has to feel understood and heard, and then that's when actually a big space opens up for a conversation around it.
I like that, that's great, Thank you for that. That's a that's a good that's definitely a good tool.
Yeah, And it's also and the way to make them feel heard too is really to repeat back exactly what they say. And so she's like, okay, well, when in on social media, I just feel like I'm close to my friends, and I'm like, I get that you're close to your friends. That is important. I get it, you know, And and just give them a moment to acknowledge that for real, rather than like, but you know, and actually maybe to give it a day, you.
Know, to it for sure. Oh, I love that. Well, I'm so glad that you're you know, you have this book, you're doing this and then you know, for the listeners right now as a reader, what I mean Obviously having these girls have their voice heard is a huge takeaway. But is there another takeaway in the book that you just really want to drive home.
Yeah, I think that it's making space for also a girl to explore lots of different interests, explore what her needs might be. A lot of time, when a girl is good at one thing, we start affirming her and like, oh my god, you're amazing at that and you're easy. And girls are hearing this messaging that they can really be good at one thing and that's where they should spend all their time and whatever. Just really sensitive to how you affirm, right. Even how we talk to little girls. One of the first things we say is oh my gosh, like you're pretty dressed, Like how cute you are, And we're telling them so young that their value is their looks, or their value is that they're great at this one sport. And what I have found is girls can be good at lots of different things. Yes, And we're very rarely asking well do you actually like playing that sport. You know, do you actually like that? Like? What do you actually lights you up? You know from within what gives you joy? And girls aren't used to actually really checking in and being like would I like that? And then space to explore it where maybe they're not so good at it at first too. There's so much achievement focus, and I need there should be space to do it kind of badly at first and make mistakes. And I find with boys, boys can make mistakes and it really isn't that big a deal to them, whereas when girls make mistakes, they take it in as their entire identity that they messed up and they're bad at that. And so the more space we can give girls to make mistakes, explore who they are, have big feelings, even like grumpy feelings right again, is as hard as it can be. They're a normal human being. Those are normal human emotions.
Right, Okay, Yeah, No, I love that You're You're awesome and I appreciate you coming unwind down and everyone please go get her book, Underestimated the Wisdom and Power of Teenage Girls. Thank you so much, Chelsea, thank you, thank you so much. I have a great day, girl, by it right,
