Whine Down with Jana KramerJana is headed into the Scandal-verse when star Katie Lowes joins Whine Down!
Katie opens up about how her acting careers has changed since becoming a mother, including how she handles the mom guilt when shooting on location.
Jana and Katie bond over their jobs before acting, and we find out what Jana misses about being a waitress.
Plus, we hear the story of why Jana and Katie were ALMOST co-stars!
Wind down with Janet Kramer and I'm Heart Radio podcast. All right, guys, how you doing good? Coming up? I'm coming up for air and between birthday season here guys, So so neigh birthdays in August, that's how I feel in November, yes, and do you have things? Well, it's it's Roman and then a week later's Jace, a week later is me, a week later is Alan. That's four birthdays. A week later is Jesus, and then Jesus and then Jolie and in between Happy New Year. I feel like there's it's just a lot. Yeah. But Jace had a lot of fun at Legends. Jace I birthday, I was a little out of it because Easter I gave was a nurse and a back injury. I was like, okay, be off today. Are you doing all right? Jace is just such a It's so fun because I love how Jace and Legend like love each other but they couldn't be any more opposite. Yeah, And I'm always like, oh, Jace is coming, this will be good for like us being like a dapperhandsome, like good standing kind of guy, you know, and Legend's like, Jace, get over you. Please tell the quote about my sister. Well, I wasn't sure if you wanted me too. I think it's hysterical. So it shows their personalities really well. Well, you're just so cute because it's like, yeah, like you said, they're they're very different, but not, I mean, Legend is still very you know sweet. Oh he's a good guy. Yeah, he's a good kid. He's just a very like outgoing character. Yeah. I mean he's got I mean he has a mullet. Mullet, so you know, it's kind of his name is Legend wild like I did it to myself. Sure, so there, you know, and Jace is more cautious and a little bit more I say, it's sweet. Yeah, but I mean it's fine. We all like we see it. But it takes him a second to kind of warm up to like the rough and toughness of like that energy. I don't know if it's because he's with me seventy percent of the time, but you know, he's not tumbling with dudes a bunch, you know, I mean now him and like Alan Russell and stuff. But you know, anyways, I digress. So we walk in and he they're bouncing on the big bouncy house stuff. And the boys are just running. No, I walked into them throwing water balloons at the girls. It was the girls against the boys. There were six boys and two girls. They're just chucking these water balloons the girls. And then Jace, sweet Jace, goes to the girls team, and then the one of the kids goes, no, it's the girls. It's the guys against the boys against the girls. And he's like okay. So then he like kind of goes on the other side and gets into it. And then they're on the like the bounce thing, and the adults are inside and I've I can't move because of my back, so I'm just sitting on this chair, beautiful, nice legs backyard. Yeah, I love me. Thanks great, thank you, thanks. And I'm just observing and just kind of watching. And so it's Jace and Legend and they're bouncing up and down and he's like, attack the girls, and he's like, oh, I don't want to attack my sister. He goes, well, then attack mine, and he was like like and he just kind of like stood there like he's a gentleman. He didn't He's like, well, I don't want to attack my sister. And then just without any well, then attack mine. I love that, like borrow mine. Then yes, that's but it was cute. They're sweet love that he lived his best life. It was Jake. It was Jay squinting. We did our version of Visit Cake. Legend loves that show, so we did like our own little thing. Jay's squinty, I mean so in it. Like I have several pictures of just him, Like he pulled his shades up but on the top of his head and he was like he was going to win. He was going to call which one was Cake. It was so cute to me. Well, he said the other day, he goes, Mom, can we have camp at the house? I was like, okay, so listen. That was not how their house always is. That was just for his birthday party. Yeah yeah, but if you'd like to camp sometime, we could figure it out. Oh yeah. And dude. Camp was two hours specified twice on the invitation and it was all outdoors. We want to be. I mean it's very against to like, it's against my DNA to have wild you know, and boys are crazy. Yeah, but I thought it was so sweet. Oh yeah, they had fun. Well, it's Legend wants everything, right, you ask them what the dream party is and usually includes like an aircraft and us flying somewhere, and so I was like, okay, say we kept it to like our postage stamp backyard, what would we do here? And he's like, ah, okay, and so we can mind all things. And I just labeled it dude camp And the next one's fifty preston. Yeah, next week, next week, crazy wild? Have we planned anything yet? We can't plan because we just never know where he'll be. He's not home so far though. Still he's back out again, so I think like Christmas, and it sounds like don't don't you have their shows like knowing what he's doing in the next two weeks. No, I mean we do, but then everything changes, like even just this morning has changed again, so we might have him next week really, but we don't think. So I can think shows come that like last minute, well they're doing they own their label now, so there's like extra other pieces that are also like that would be I'm like, yeah, I was always trying to change stuff. They wouldn't let me.
Yeah, it's like, no, you're right, I wouldn't. Yeah, probably not, just like yeah, it's just a lot like it's great and stuff, very fruitful season. You know, summer is harvest season in the music industry. Well, let me know what we could do because I always love the fifty favorite things party. Oh yeah, where it's like you have fifty of your favorite things. So it's like fifty chocolateship cookies.
Fifty, Kristin Bress, Yeah, fifty, fifty of your favorite friends fifty. Like I don't know. It's like it's cute. Someone through that one time, and I just always remember it. I'm like, all right, when I'm fifty, you know, I had my big forty one. Now I want my now fifty fifty. Yeah, it's crazy time. Yeah, correct, correct, I have done. I love birthdays so much so I feel a little like, okay, well this is our tenth birthday together, coming up on our tenth birthday, so I don't I'm like what I've done reverse surprise party for him. I've brought in his best friends from home, you know, like I don't know, and just the timing is tricky. So he said we're going to celebrate all year long. I do want to do like an overnight somewhere just us too. He did that for me, and I love it. It's like a gift to each other. Really, we should go somewhere. I could be with kids. I know you like to travel with the good I do love, but we could all like go run a house somewhere for like a long weekend in Florida or something that could be really fun. Bring the kids in December. Really, I'm like, when I don't say this is a okay, I love you, I don't see it unb wrapping. No, there was a gosh, what was the percentage? It was like eighty percent of children. The only thing they really remember are the family trips who took, not the birthday parties or any the is are there. I don't focus on those things. Focus on the trips that you take. Yeah you're really good at that. Yeah we love that trip. So I'm like, I got to do more trips. But then I just looked because I was going to go to Michigan for the weekend. It's for this weekend, No next weekend. Me. I was gonna try for four tickets twenty five hundred dollars. Correct, that's economy correct. I was like for to Michigan, to the twenty five metropolis of twenty five hundred dollars that's a delta. Southwest was twenty eight hundred. I was looking at Allegiance. That's where we got. I was like, I might actually fly the plane for a discount and rate, Like it's wild right now. I wanted to go tomorrow and we've been it's crazy. I don't and then you can't fight all the time. So I'm like, okay, so I'm going to book this and then do I even get to go?
Like, yeah, it's kind of a mess gas lip by my airline is I do you know what I mean? It's been like that for a while really, but yeah, I mean it's especially well is it going to Detroit or going to one of the other tribes.
Yeah, that's not even like Travers City where that was normally would it be because normally the flights were like one hundred and eighty two hundred. They've been high for a while.
And the problem is is that Southwest you could always kind of count on to be cheaper and then are more affordable, but that has not been the case. No, have you heard that they're going to change the seating assigned? Not cool that some people are like so excited and some people are like, I don't understand why you don't like it, and then people it's like it's like it's so funny.
What a team builder on Southwest? Yeah, it's a team builder. I love it, Like it's a travel you have to just go hey, like it's it's I like fighting for that.
My only I don't really care. But my issue is going to be, then what are the costs going to be?
Like exactly, it's going to be higher, and that's why we like Southwest, right.
But also with Southwest you are paying higher to kind of get those higher anyway, So I don't know, it might even out, it might not. I'll have to see whatever.
But I also just I just am like it's so I don't know, you get to meet different people, and I think it's kind of cool. I will say though, when I'm traveling with the fans, I love having a sign seat. I love knowing. Yeah, I don't.
And that's where I travel so much for like cheer and stuff, and it's super stressful because with the kids, they may not be able to sit together or you may not be able to get on with some. So I don't I would prefer probably assigned seats. Yeah, I just don't want the prices to be crazy because of it.
Same and they're doing like a their version of a first class now too, which is, well, what are we going to be paying for that? Because there's no are they going to take the seats out and change first class? But they would probably do what they do in Europe, So there are classes. It's just the seat is still there. It makes zero. Yeah, I would be livid.
Yeah if I actually because I umblicious face it, I did pay for that aid for a first class for myself. And if I did that and there was still a seat there, but like you can't even move from the thing. I literally stood there and stared at it for a while, like I could see you, what is happening? Trusting goes what is this? And I was like, oh, I think we're in first class.
I think it wasn't first though, right, isn't it just like it's called premium. I guess one of them that, yeah, was the Tinier, That's what it was. Yeah, It's like we had the same one the three hour flight to Italy. It was the same thing. I'm like, this is so ridiculous. I'd like to at least can I sit close? And I feel like I'm next to you. There's a middle seat. There's just a middle seat. If you could take this thing and move it can't move it can't move it.
No, I know.
I stared at it for a long time. That's crazy. So I have something that I just want to bring up that I feel like you guys are going to make fun of me for Oh goodie, just entered the chap. Can't you want some snacks? I've been Sam's Club. Okay. So I was like, I have to bring this up to my girls. I'm having like a midlife crisis. That's another podcast. But I brought this up in Italy and it's still staying with me and I don't know. I was like, I need to unpack this with my girls on wine Down. Okay, Okay, you're ready for it. So okay, I'm so cure.
I like to guess before and I got sure, go ahead, I got nothing.
Our personalities are so clear when you look at us like I'm like on the edge and be like okay, go ahead, honey, share and Cat's already got squinty okay and go. So this came up in Italy when we were at Did you have any guesses? No? None, none, maybe none, nothing, pizza continue what I don't know Italy. So okay, so this came up when we were at a restaurant. I said to Alan, I said, well, I asked him the question, what's one thing you missed doing? And he said, I can't. Honestly, I can't remember. That's kind of crappy. Who maybe we should grab it. So and then he's like, what are you miss doing? And I was like, well, being here, I've it kind of made me miss this certain thing. Just from talking to the servers in Italy, I was like, I miss waitressing. I was like, because I love waitressing. I loved it. I love helping people, and I love like I some of my favorite youth memory memories, it's like a young adolescent was waitressing because I just love doing it. I loved the the the changing things, and like kind of managing everything, and then you know, helping people and like sitting down. I was I'd get fired a lot just because I would like sit down at the table and like be overly friendly. This is why we're best. You don't think we do that now, Because I feel like a lot of my life feels very similar to everything you just described, right, but it's like because we have to oh and we don't get to want to. Yeah, we're not getting paid for and I'm the cook too. Okay, what if I like applied somewhere and worked one day a week at like a brick like a bricktops or like I would would you guys con visit me.
Duhaut every Monday?
Is like this is my dream scenario? Like no, I'm like actually like he was laughing me, but I'm like actually being serious. I think it would be my time support it so much. I'm not sure when you're picking up it would be like my like literally said what is happening? But it would be like like literally because it's something that I enjoy doing. It would be like my time because I don't like sitting down, like okay, I struggle. It's just I'm here for it. Are laughing at my dreams. I am so here for it. It's just so just life. You're so serious, You're so serious. I want you to live your dreams. I can't. I support it so much. I just I feels like for your time not serving others. But I mean I like that. Oh okay, okay, I love waitressing. I know I can't if you really love it that much to get out of the house, we might need a separate offline conversation. If I am giving you your latte at Starbucks because I need to get out of the house, I cannot wait. Okay, I have a couple of questions because I do think we are in similar seasons right now. I would say I went to third Eye blind and I felt like I could do that every weekend for the rest of it because we are saving a lot of catch stage. And then I started looking up like when is Yellow Card playing and Boys Like Girls? Because I just love the feeling I had and I I don't know if I'm emotional.
Or the same.
No, it is, because there's so I think those seasons of our lives are so this laughing guys turned into a breakdown. I'm almost there too. That's why I'm like, like I can feel it that cat goes. I feel it changing, and I'm like, it's okay. No. I actually just had this thought this morning because I used to do a morning show for like seven years in Michigan on radio, and I love getting up at like four thirty in the morning, like I love getting day under me before like everyone else even you know, blink, And I was like I have been in the season, like I named the podcast season last time, like living now in the good old days, because I don't think that we recognize like that we're in the good old days while we have them. Yeah, Like I was always stressed out when I was serving because I was like, I don't want to get fired. I need this money, like you know, But like I look back and I'm like the wildest speaking times and so much fun. Like I laid by the pool till three, took a shower, put on my cute little like black pants, and grabbed my apron and made bank because caring well for people a densrit to myself is exactly what I'm good at, you know. But like I think a lot of that, Like the third I blind showed it to me because I was like, I mean, we are listening to you guys. My husband definitely thinks I'm going through something because like all the music right now at home is like boys like Girls and Yellow Card and all those because I'm there's a time that it does something for me, Like there's a care free moment in time and I miss that. Not that I don't love what I have, right, but before I was a mom, before I was a wife two times, you know, like just don't make me count me. But like there's something really special about what those seasons were to us that it doesn't it makes sense to me that you'd want to go back. I would also say it won't feel the same. We can try it on if you want to, but I do it is sacred and special and fun and there's just a part of us that lived and I don't even think I think because of my worry and anxiety and never like really even soaked up everything I was inside of when I did it. So I mean, if you I can't wait, I want to be we want to be your first table. Oh it's happening. Yeah, is sending things back to the kitchen already? I would never Yeah, I think said that is that what's coming up for you right now?
Which piece well, like like what she's saying, like you just wish you could.
No. I think it's like we've had a lot of conversations in our house about like dreams and like living dreams, and I'm like, like my dream is to like be on a show again, right, So, like I really want to be on a show, and I'm super excited because we have Katie Lowe's coming on the show. And it's just you know, she's on a TV show that I actually tested for, and you know she's got a podcast. I'm talking about Scandal. But you know, Alan and I've been lots of conversation about like our dreams and he's like, well, you make great money, and I'm like, but what you don't understand is that, like I'm not making money on the stuff that like, I'm doing it because it's a means to support my children. And I've had to pivot. I was like, you don't think that I want to be out like busting it again, like because I love music or you know, like I would love to play big shows again. I'm like, but does that suit the mom life?
No?
Does it suit like you know, you know, I was like, I'd love to be on a TV show again. I'm like, I don't. Those opportunities don't come all the time, so I have to make find means to support my kid, kids and you know, the house and everything else. So I'm like, just because it makes money does not mean that like I'm living my dream. And I'm like that's the piece where it's like, again, I'm so thankful. I don't want this to like come out the other way, like I'm very thankful for everything, and I've had to like be a scrapper and like you know, figure things out and kind of like Okay, let's do this and let's change here, and let's have a podcast and are right now, let's do that. And it's like so I'm I'm I love like creating and dreaming things, but it's not my ultimate dream, Like it's I enjoy it, but some of the things I don't enjoy doing, you know, especially when there's certain things that I just have to do it for the money piece of it. And so you know, I've just like been kind of in that mode where it's like and there's other things that obviously I can do, but it's that going back to like what you said, it's like those are the moments where I'm like I'd rather make nothing and enjoy what I'm doing, you know, and less responsibility. Like, yeah, those were the days where it was like I don't know. And I don't mean that either with like me, because I'm like I do know that I have to make but it's like when you know, we'd have conversations like we have, you're making great money, it's like it doesn't matter. That's not it actually doesn't do anything for me, Like a little piece of meat dies inside when I had to do certain things that like that I know I need to do to support my family and pay for MIC and you know all the stuff. So you know, that's where it's just like I gotta I gotta find something in there that is filling the cup when the dream is like so on. It seems at times in the world of like acting so unreachable that it's like, all right, I gotta find something because in those moments it's just and it's only when like we bring up the topic because normally I can put my head down and I just go through like grind mode. But when it's brought up, that's when like all the emotions come up with it. So anyways, no, that makes sense. I just had this two hour emotional breakdown two weeks ago. Yeah, yeah, like what is my Like I don't get a chance, Like it's hard to take off even like the all the hat that you wear to go like what is my dream? Because the dreams that I have always had and I still have don't really work well with like motherhood or a traveling husband or like, and we just talked about being like in a good content contentment place and like those both feelings can be had together. And I would venture to say that most anyone listening to this, especially women, would feel a lot of what we're saying. I know, but I'm getting to the point now. Were'm about to go check in and stamp my card at bricked Ups. Okay, I can't wait to tell you.
I mean, if that makes you fulfilled, then do it.
It's going to give me like a moment outside of like you know, just to like and co workers. I'm going to find something else. But you know what I mean, it's like it's it's opening, but it's like, you know, everything seems like I want to do the charity. It's like everything is like so it's like so much. It's daunting. There's a lot of work and I'm like I'm like, how do I even start that? And like it's just a lot, Yeah it is. I got a call with Jason Waller and I'm just like my eyes are like, ohh, so much, but I want to do it. It's like it's going to take.
A lot to that for sure. Well, and that's the thing that's so hard to think, especially for you. It's like you say yes to pretty much everything. It's very hard for you to say no, but.
Because I know there's not going to be opportunities.
Which which absolutely and that's understanding, and that would be anyone in your position would probably do the same. But sometimes I think if you can say no to a little bit more, to have that room in your life to really go, Okay, what is it that I really And I don't know the answer to that for myself, I don't know that. I don't think we all have to figure out what that thing is. But if there's not room for it, that feels even more daunting on top of all the things we already have to do. So I think freeing up some of your mind and your time and your space for.
That will be helpful with that situation. Yeah, which is easier said, maybe we all go on your Hamburger or maybe I'll buy a restaurant. And I'm kidding anyways, but let's get im Katie on and talk all things scandal. Can't wait? Hi, Hey girl, Hey, Hi, I someone that comes fly from the closet. Yeah, kindreds, it's the only quiet place in my house.
I used to like really make an effort and go somewhere with the pretty background, and then my kids would like invade and it was insane. And then I used to put up a pop up thing and then that's just annoying, so like it can fall over, and then.
Aren't I supposed to like, oh yeah, falling over crazy?
And then aren't I supposed to like know how to do backgrounds so that this is all like fuzzy.
But I'm not technologically not even know how to do that either.
I'm just hoping that my charisma and personality distract from.
It already has. I love you so much. I have to tell you like a little funny not funny story, But so I tested for Hunting Wives and I was pinned did the whole thing, and my favorite part of it was like, oh my god, Katie's on the show and I was obsessed with you on Callie, Callie.
Oh you would have been so great, totally different. As we all know, actress is insane.
Yeah, it was, I mean because I ended up like obviously like seeing who it was, and I was like, she's amazing and she's so good. Yes, we're very different, and I'm going to just and I knew you guys were so close too. I was like, well that was that's good for her because they like their kids go to the same school like I went, because I like I needed to like you know, like make peace with it, because it was like one of those where like I was, I was devastated for like you know when you get that close and you're just like.
Oh my god, it just happened to my husband like yesterday, and I was like, I.
Yeah, eat this, I know. I I was just literally talking to my husband about too. I was just like, you know when you just feel like so defeated, nothing's happening, and then it's like those moments that are like you're so close and you're like you can just taste it, and then it goes away.
And you're picturing your life like you're like, oh, I've already moved to Charlotte. Are my children functioning?
When are they coming? When are they not? Like the an accent because Joe Jolie already has one living here in Tennessee like they had. I was like, I get what you are. You are no what would you have done? I mean, well, so I I mean I already had it, so I have a it did never actually happened, but like obviously, but there's I have two kids with them their husband, so it's like I would have taken them with me and just like you know, homeschool them whatever, and then I have a baby with my now husband, the whole thing.
Gradually, Thank you, I've gotten down your whole Instagram. I was like, I love a blended family situation. It's so great girl.
But yeah, so I like, I mean, I had already had the conversations. Once I got pinned, I was like, oh, Like I was like, I am like so and just like they're like just between you and someone else, but they're like you know, saying all the things, and then they call you the next day and go, well, they leaned the other way, and I was like unpacked the boxes. It was like the gutturll like oh, but then I was like friends with the other CALLI anyways, so well, we're very know each other for like twenty years.
We've been in the same mountears. We had no idea that like either of I went in for Cali as well, which is a ridiculous mistake. I love coming out called The Hunting Wives and CALLI is like a sexy, sexy woman like yourself.
You're sexy as well. Now I am not.
I booked the one that says dowdier than the rest, which.
I like it. I feel way, I feel.
Better in that arena. I just do like I cannot you know.
I mean. The lead of the show is mal And Ackerman.
She's a Swedish beautiful you know, model turned actorate Like I'm like, okay, this is not like these are like the hottest hoots like leeah. Anyway, I auditioned for Cali and they called me and they were like, would you come in and read for Jill, which was a different one of The Hunting Wives. For those of you listening, it's just to show like everyone's a wife of somebody who's a big deal in East Texas town. So it's like the sheriff's wife, the mayor's wife, the governor's wife, the.
Preacher's wife, which is me. I would be great.
My husband was up for something yesterday that was going to be shooting in Ireland and I was like already, like we're going to international school for the kids, my mom's moving with us.
You're like tonight for dinners, fish and chips, yea or whatever it is. And then it's like, no, the deal.
You know, he was this runner up and this you know, the first choice ended up making the deal work. And you know, they strung him along for a long time, like we don't think it's gonna work.
We don't think is going to work. And then he.
Knows the actor that was in the first position, and he was like, I'm just going to call my friend, and he called his friend.
He was like, oh no, no, I'm totally doing it. Like I have three kids. I have to put food on the table.
And Adam was like, what the like, this is just anyway, It's all good.
It's I think. I mean, I don't well, I mean I am, but I'm amazed. Was it fun? Did you have fun doing the Hunting Wives? I just have to do I had. I really did have a good time. It was so great. Huh you had such a good Sorry, I would be really so I never get to I'm so sorry.
I never worked away from the kids. This was my first job.
How old are your kids? My kids are six and a half and three and a half.
And I've taken I'm an older boy and a little girl, and I've taken them on every job thus far. My husband and I are both actors, and we've been fortunate enough to work in like really crazy, different cool places, and we've always taken the kids. And this is that first year that you hear about where like, oh, shoot, he has to go to school because he's at a public school and attendance. Actually, Matt, like, you know, you can't just pull him out forever and then expect them to have a spot waiting for you and all of this. So I was pretty nervous, you know, just going through the auditions and just thinking, okay, like this is going to be my first foray into commuting back and forth from Charlotte, North Carolina to Los Angeles, leaving my kids here with my husband.
He did a phenomenal job.
I cried so much the couple's therapy, like leading up to it was just only about my anxiety and leaving my kids.
But everybody thrived.
I think that was really the big great lesson was like, you know, if you marry the right person who is willing to really jump in and he does, I'm like, and I've done it for him too, Like last year he was in Budapest for like eight months, and you know, so we're pretty like good at really picking up this black when one person get is earning the living, you know, but I was terrified to leave them and then it really you know, my kid is probably having slight anxiety and separation from it, but hey, he was going to get it at some time. He comes from a long line of anxious New Yorkers. It's he's going to be in therapy with whatever way you look at it.
So whatever. Well, I mean, that's it's amazing though, because that we're all obviously moms and we get the mom guilts and it's it's a real thing. But to know, and there was something that we were just chatting about the other day after we podcasted, and she's like, yes, we can all do hard things. But sometimes when you when you do those hard things, then you realize, oh wait, I can do this, especially you know, being a mom and trying to juggle it all. So it's that's a good thing to remember, like you did it. It's amazing you can do it. Maybe it was hard at times, but you still got through it and it.
Was awesome at times. That was the unexpected thing was I was like, you know, I definitely felt mom guilt. My kids would be like screaming, crying, running down the driveway when I was getting in to go to the airport. It was very dramatic at moments, and there are moments where they were angry and things like that, but there were a lot of moments of just total joy of like remembering who I am separate of my mom identity. There were moments of like me line dancing and two stepping in Charlotte, like drunk off my ass with a cowgirl hat on and just being like this is the shit, or being you know, having a random day off in between two working days and just sort of twiddling my thumbs like, oh my god, I think I'm gonna like is it okay, I'm gonna go to a yoga class and I'm just gonna watch like six hours straight of like Bridgerton season three or whatever, and you know what I mean, Like those are things I do not allow myself to do in LA which I need to look at, but because I'm like, well, there's always like something to do, like a grocery shop or a pickup or a play date or let's get them in the whatever it is. So it was sort of really great and I'm very much now like looking word to the next job that takes me away.
Adam kept being like, I told you you love it.
I told you you love it because he's done it more than I have.
Levann he was just like, you're gonna really love it. I did. Do You've got to find you in it again. Yeah, you know the piece of you that we ta table while we're parents, Yeah, we do. Like, oh, it really sucks.
And also there is something to be said where like, you know, I was thousands of miles away from them, I could not help, you know, like, which is very good in a way, because I would figure out a way to get there, you know. And it I did do like thirteen flights in three months and almost like fell over.
Oh wow. Yeah.
I came back like every five to seven days, and and anytime I had a Monday or a Friday off, I was home. And then you know, it was sort of figuring out for yourself, like Okay, just because you're home for three days doesn't mean you have to be super mom. In those three days, I'm like cleaning lunch boxes within an inch of their life and clipping their toenails because nobody else is doing it, and you know it's like, Okay, you probably were pushing it a little hard. You could have just taken them to a movie, napped with them, cuddled, let their nails grow.
Who gives?
You know, Like I just I found myself doing those sort of like ridiculous control tasks to try to like show how much I love them when I.
Was definitely nail clippers and attachment, healthy attachment go hand in hand. Yeah, but also like who else.
Is doing that stuff? That's the thing I really think My husband is never he's great, Never has clipped their nails.
Never, well it's a little primal, but taking care of them in that way, like the grooming them, the shampooe nails, for sure, Alan hasn't no clip. Preston gets really overwhelmed. He's like, those are so microscopic. There's no way. It's hard for those little baby fingers. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's so hard and it's so crazy.
It's a mommy gorilla like yeah, like grooming and approving and all. Yeah, And I'm like, no washes their head like I wash their heads of course, not like and I'm inspecting everything. You know, of course everything's okay, but like.
No one else is going to look at her ear lobes that way except for me. That's has anybody checked in on them lately? You know? It's why? That's right? That's how how is it with three?
Because I feel like when you have three you kind of have to give up on that which sounds a little bit, which sounds so great, like it sounds so refreshing. It'd be like, I literally just don't have the capacity to like it's a force.
It's a forced way into like letting go am so a type and control and micro helicopter. And I've had to Yeah, I had to turn it over or or none of us would survive or we'd all be operating under laminated sheets. And I'm the only one that cares about that, am I? How many do you have? Three? We all have three? All three? Right?
Okay?
You all have three?
That seems so wild to me. My son, who six and a half, keeps begging for me to have a third for some reason, all of his dear friends in school are one of three kids, and he's just like, how dare you? Like how we only have two?
Like it's notice that none of them are one of four though, because three is where we all are, like ants are wrap. Yeah, really it's not. I don't think three is that hard. I truly don't think.
Did you grow up in a house that had a lot of kids though.
So yeah, like three. But I thought one to two was the hardest by far, Like zero to one was a little hard. I thought zero to one was easy. One to two was I thought my life was over. And then by the time I got to wanting a third, I was like, oh, this is easy, like you, I mean, you just one person has to But mine are older too, so they're spread out. So my oldest they are that. Yeah, so I have fifteen, twelve and eight, so yeah eight.
I have eight and six, so it's like or eight and five. He's almost ex but like it's like having one all over again, like my nine month old is you know, it's like having one incredible.
Yeah, so you were auditioning for hunting wives when you have like a little baby, Yeah.
Girl, MoMA's got am.
And I am so impressed with you.
That's unbelievable.
I could not gene crate. I don't stop I think about it. And then I think I agree with you. One to two broke me in a way where I was like the book stops here, this is not One to two was so bananas to have like a toddler running around who wants your attention and their whole world explodes while you're dealing with a newborn. And I some people really love the newborn stage. That is not me. I think it is a hellscape.
That is.
I don't like no sleeping and no reward with it, like baby doesn't care who you are, Like.
You know what I mean, Like it doesn't matter. I describe it best as a foreign exchange student program, and it feels like we don't speak the same language. I don't think you actually appreciate what you Yeah, and I like it when we can talk. I love the newborn stage. So it's only because my husband let me sleep. So my husband did not let me sleep.
Well, we switched off, But I still love the newborn stage.
Yeah, cat love it.
My best friend she is becomes like the most earth mother goddess love bubble person where she's just like walking around like in a daze, and she like loves it. There's like a baby on her breast in her bed and all that, and I'm just like pulling my fucking hands.
Were non three women, but doctor Brown really pulled through baby, That's why we loved it. Well, I don't know. I don't can't speak to that.
I rested for so long for both kids, and I don't know why I did.
Yeah, but I don't know why.
I like, why do that to yourself?
None of the rumors for me were true.
That did not make me get like skinny really quickly, Like that was absolutely horseshit. I I don't know why I was so I was. I gave birth in a group of moms where everyone was doing.
Are you pregnant? Were you pregnant? Around the same time.
On the show I was pregnant the final season of Scandal, and they wrote it in for Quinn. Blessedness, Shonda Rhimes, thank you so much for that gift. And then I went back.
To Carrie was pregnant what twice?
Harry was pregnant twice, and so many people on Grays had had babies too, And I was friends with a lot of those girls, and they were just sort of like, actually, this is a great story. They were all like, get it done. Under Shanda, She's the best of the best. She'll take care of you. She's done it a million times. No one will mess with you, blah blah blah. And she actually we were hanging out in her office because we're friends, but we were hanging out in her office and she just sort of looked at me and she was like, what are you doing? And I was like, what are you talking about? And she was like, well, do you want to have a family? And I was like I do.
I just like I was like, clearly, is this a test here? I am.
I'm like thirty six, thirty seven years old, and I'm like, I still just don't feel like I've grown up enough to do that, even though I'd been with my husband for like eleven years or something like we've we've been a really long time. And she was like, well, before other people know this, and I think some people dead said it, but in my memory of it, it goes like she said, no one knows, but next season's gonna be the last season of Scandal, and if I were you, if you want to have a baby, I would get it done on my watch. And I literally ran home and like told my husband to.
Take a.
Wow.
I was like, oh, my God, Shanna said, I should have a baby like right now, because you know scandal, I should do it like while I'm working and have a job, because she'll write it in and she'll write out all the months I need off and I'll have a job to come back to, which sort of like really helps you, like you know, just have a date on the books with which you're like back in like some sort of functioning mode. So I did have the baby on the final season of Scannal, and the whole time people thought I was so hilarious out of my mind that she was like, We're gonna start Shondaala in audio, would you like to host a mom podcast called Katie's Crib? And I was like, okay, So I just basically do what Shonda says and follow because when a genius is like walking amongst you, or do you just say okay, yeah, my second baby. Similarly, I was on Inventing Anna and I was supposed to wrap in April, and I was hanging out with Shonda again and I said to her, I said, Okay, I think we're going to have a second but I'm gonna get pregnant hopefully and no one will know, like I'll be I'll be like four or five weeks pregnant and then we're gonna wrap. So I'm not gonna like tell production or anything. If this all works out, I don't know, but we've been trying and blah blah blah. I do get pregnant and a week later production shuts down in the world shuts down because it's March thirteenth of twenty twenty. So she was like my first email when I was like, I'm pregnant. I still owe like half of this series, this show, I don't know what's happening. And they waited a full year for me to have the baby, and then four months after they pushed all of my scenes to be the last six weeks of the entire production, and they move the whole production to La so that I didn't have to travel.
Wow, that's what I credible.
I know she is a mom, well, she has three kids herself, and she's just like you know. I mean, now, I think the business has gotten way better and is like actually paying attention of taking care of women who are also mothers in this business. I think it probably used to be terrible, but I think in Shondaland, it's always been that way. You know, Ellen Pompeio is a mom, Like there's just like yeah, so she's just really good at being like work life balance, you can have be a mom, you can come to work. We will figure it out. We had something we had like you know, there's ten to one on set, or if you have to go to the bathroom or to whatever, we'd like special code words for like you had to go back to your trailer and breastfeed every two and a half hours. We did that and Carrie did that.
It was amazing. I love that. I'm really excited about Unpacking the Toolbox podcast because so Catherine was the one you actually got me into Scandal because she was like thanks, yes, So it was probably like second season maybe you're like yeah, probably. I'm always we're always kind of like, right, what do we what are we watching? What do we watching? And she's like Scandal, it's so good. And I'm like, okay, I'll let me. Let me go back and start watching my two favorite scandals now like to like my top two. It's a Scandal to this day is it's.
It's see why you would love hunting wives. Just I get it into I'm here for that love.
So but it's it's one of those I'm like, it was such a good show that I'm like, I now want to go back rewatch and I'll listen to your podcast, So I think I actually wanting to do that. We should do it together. Yeah yeah, and Alan's never seen it too, and we cannot find a show that we're you know that we all watch. Yeah, so I'm like, let's go back because it is because even to this day, I imagine it's still going to stand the test of you know, oh my god, it totally does.
I actually didn't even think about when when people started doing rewatch podcasts and I was like, oh, I'd really like to do the Scandal one. And I called shondaland Audio and I was like, hey, guys, someone's going to do the rewatch podcast and I hope it's me. Can it be me? Can I pitch me? And I think it should be Geirmo and I'm gonna call him right now.
I love.
I didn't even finish my sentence. He was like, yeah, yeah, I'm in what are we doing?
I like so much.
The only thing I didn't think through was like actually rewatching the episodes. Like I knew I was down to talk about it. I knew I was down to like have our guests on and all the Scandal cast and directors and writers and guest stars and recurrings and all the great people that were amazing on the show. But then I thought, oh, we have to watch like all the episodes, and I that was a long time ago, and I don't remember a lot, and I don't know if it was good or if it holds up.
And the greatest gift has been just like a one holds up the show.
I mean, I'm watching all the other hit things that are Emmy nominated and this, that and the other thing, and Scandal is still right there.
Oh yeah, so good. Wait and you were Connie Britton's nanny, like nanny. Yeah, I was supposed to be her assistant. I had interviewed to me.
I had had every odd and end job in all of Los Angeles, you know, babysitting, waitressing, bartending.
Did you ever would ranch girl? That was an patch is where my I'd go back and forth pot I got fired for not being able to open a wine bottle there, and I'm like, oh the irony now, oh my god. So You're like, I'm never again. While I get fired her.
That that cedar playing salmon is delivered so good in the LA area.
Yeah, I was, so I was like sort.
Of at my wits end and getting close and not getting anything enough to really quit all the side hustle jobs. And then I'd always said I'm never going to be anyone's personal assistant because that just seems fucking terrible. But then I had a friend of a friend of Connie Britton's and they were like, go interview with her or she lived up the street, and she's such a real icon actress for me, and I just think she's so wonderfully talented. So I was like, fine, I'm gonna interview and see if it's a fit. I interviewed. We talked for like four hours, and she said two days went by and she called me and she said, this is crazy. But I was scrolling through the channels, which is something we used to do, and she said, and you popped up as a guest star in private Practice, and I feel like you're a good actress and you should really not take this job. And if you don't book something by April, you can be my personal assistant, but right now, just babysit for my kid and keep auditioning, and the next week I book Scandal.
Stop.
Yeah, so when I say babysitting for her like on Mondays, like and then and now we're dear dear friends, like and her son is a dear dear friend of mine and whatever.
Yeah, when you got that call, did in that moment, did you know that your whole kind of world and acting life wasn't change or was it just like who knows that this show is going to hit or not? No?
I mean I think you're always or I am always like this isn't going to work out. You know. I'm like, Okay, the pilot's not pill and I'm going to get fired. You know, they're going to figure out that I'm terrible, you know all these things. But when I got the job, it was so crazy. It's on the behind the scenes I think DVD of season one. But I had auditioned for Shonda a bunch of times for other shows she had and not gotten them. And Scandal. I went in. I read the first scene of the pilot, which is when Quinn runs in and she's with Harrison right and he's like, you're gonna work for Olivia Pope, And I'm like Olivia Pope, the Olivia Pope. And he's like, do you want to be a gladiator suit?
And I'm like, I want to be a gladiator suit whatever we all wanted to be Olivia. I want all of her jackets, all of ours, Oh my god, the best.
But I did the scene and she said, okay, do it one more time, to do it as fast as you possibly can. And I was like, okay, I've been told to talk slower my whole life, so this might be a fit. I left and a few days later they were like, they're going to test you. You're going to go back in. I went back in, thought I was going to test, and they had the camera rolling and she said, you don't need to do the scene because I've already sent your first tape to ABC Studio Network and I'm just going to give you the role. Yeah, And so I just start sobbing, which is like all you could go. I don't know, I haven't looked at up a while, but I just start sobbing, and I was like, what happens now?
And she's like, we're gonna make a pilot to call you. You're gonna have a fitting, and I'm like you're gonna have a fitting. And then they're like, what happen. I'm there's a table read. There's gonna be a table read.
And then I'm just, yeah, I look so bumbling and I'm an ugly crier. I look terrible, and I'm like, can I hug everybody? She's like, yes, you can hug me. And I hugged everybody, and no, I never I mean, that was a magical experience. And from that moment it was magical for ten years, Like, truly.
There was never there was no scandal on set.
It sucks.
We always say, it's just ridiculous. There was so much drama on the show. And we couldn't have been.
A more well behaved, kind, boring, ywon fest of a cast. Like nobody was sleeping with anybody.
There was no drama.
Everyone was like so prepared and type A and just like really fucking grateful to like be on this ride. Truly, but no, it was great.
Oh my god, she's.
The best number one in the business. I mean, this girl. And you hear these stories coming up of like girls fighting for like the front seat of the van or I don't know that, yeah, oh.
Yeah, we have to have separate cars to drive down. Yeah, it's stuff like that.
Carrie was like, Okay, do you need help finding an outfit for like this red carpet And I'm like yeah, She's like, ohh on, let me call blah blah blah. Like she goes above and beyond in like just like you know, sisterhood, and you know, whatever happens that's good for you is good for the show. So when like Bellamy Young gets Jimmy Kimmel and Carrie's over here and I'm over there and Darby's are here, like, it was so supportive. And I really feel like I grew up learning all of that about how people behave and treat themselves in this and treat each other in this business. And I've been so like I try to take all of that onto every set I'm on. And it was a wonderful place to work. And she taught me so so so much. And No, I never knew it was going to be a big deal or that I was. I mean, we were on the bubble.
We did set.
They gave us seven episodes the first season, and we were all like I.
Think Seandan, I think people were pissed.
They were like I can't believe we didn't get a full order, like we didn't even get thirteen, like we got seven, because they kind of were like, we don't know. And then after we did seven, we were on the bubble for a season two pick up. Uh huh, And then I swear to god they picked us up and it wasn't until the middle of season two, which ended up being a great thing because we figured out the show, like it wasn't like an overnight success. And now we're like, oh god, we don't know why this worked, and we don't know who our characters are and we don't know what we're doing. We had already done, you know, fifteen seventeen episodes before people started caring, so we had a little bit under our belt. But I remember being on the red carpet for something and I'm standing next to Tony Goldwyn and some interviews like how does it feel to be on a hit show? And I was like, are we Is this a hit show where we're doing? And they were like, yeah, it's a hit show. And I was like, did you guys, Like I honestly was like and they were like, no, idea, Like we've just been in a bubble.
We didn't know did you want who? Did you want Olivia to end up with? Oh?
Well, it's funny, you know. I was always so team Jake, like so team Jake. And now that i'm watching it back, no racking the toolbox. The chemistry between Fit's it's untable. And that's so insane because they are both so not like that, Like I have to remind myself. Yeah, when I watch it, I'm like, these are two of my dear, dear friends who have no chemistry, like like they love each other as humans, but like I know, they're significant others, like there's no yeah.
Like, and then I'm watching The Shore Unpacking. Yeah, and I'm.
Watching the show back and I'm like, what the hell, Like they are so steamy and so making out and pushing each other up against different things.
Katie's like, shame on you.
Oh my god. I'm just like, holy shit, I kind of get why. I mean, at the time, people were so obsessed with them, like I saw girls. I'm sure you saw this on your show too, like asking fits to sign their body parts and like all that stuff was going on. But scuff fully, you know, he's he's like a brother to me. You know, he's the best, and so I was always team Jake.
But now that i'm watching it back, sorry, Scott, I think.
Fits I really lounds.
Like you're a team fits Her. Like I was like if they didn't, yeah, you know, I just I just love them.
So hot, like the hottest, the hottest. And we were all so pregnant on the show. Now that I'm watching the back, we're in the season where Carrie's pregnant the first time, and we just had like Scott on or something, and he was saying, you know, shooting a big sex scene with a woman who's nine months I mean she shot till the end. So he's like, oh, shoot, we can't like roll on top of I can't roll on her, like God forbid. So everyone's like figuring out positions for a pregnant woman. I mean it was like crazy, and these are the days where we would do like you got like you did, you know, twenty something episode.
So you're working ten months of the year.
It's not like you could go be pregnant for six of those months and just work four like you saw the whole thing. But it was really it's a special. We just went on a girl's trip. I mean, we're just like veryver fun. I just slept over stuff Foley's house. I mean, his kids are my kids, dearest friends. It's wonderful.
See that's what you want to hear about a show that you've loved. Everybody's just great. I know. It always makes me sad, like as much as I love Sex in the City too, Like when you hear that it's like that, it just it makes me sad because I'm like, wait, so then it wasn't real. Yeah, no, friend, Like I don't want to know. I want everybody to be great. I agree, it was.
It was so they used to oppress people just to make fun of us at events because we would sort of just only hang out with each other and they'd be like, can you go talk to other people and be like, we're just sort like we were just honestly very much in love and it was really and everybody, even though you know there was one. I'm not a bad apple, but Josh Molina, who played David Rosen, is sort of like the prankster on set. He's a real shit. We love him, but he's brilliant and is the one that's like.
You could see him being a little potstar with him.
Whipped cream under your trailer door, shaving cream under your car handle. You know, just like dumb stuff like that, but you know you need one of those two. It was just wonderful. I can't believe. I can't believe it's been as long as it's as it's been, and it's been the right amount to go back and watch because I don't remember anything, and I come on, Quinn comes on scream and I'm like, what, Like, I don't remember any of it.
Joe and I are sitting down with the next Bachelor, the one and only Grant Alice, for an intimate, in depth interview. We talked to him about finding out that he was the next Bachelor, what he's looking for in a partner, and we asked him some deep dive questions which you are not going to want to mess. One thing I think listeners are going to be surprised to hear is the process that he's taking to prepare for this journey and what some of Grant's red flags are. Don't miss the episode out now. Listen to Bachler Happy Hour on America's number one podcast network, iHeart, open your free iHeart app and searched Bacheler Happy Hour and start listening.
So what season are you now on with Unpacking the Toolbox? We are on We just it's the seconds.
We just are in the middle of the second season of Unpacking the Toolbox, but it's season three of Scandal, which is when she is absolutely off the tracks.
Like okay, murder and.
Sex and Jake's there and Sally Langston's murdered her husband and oh my god, Dan Bucatinski, who was married to Cyrus, just was murdered and oh, you guys have to go back and watch it. Oh no, it's and Hawk just had sex on a card roof thing and I was like, oh my god.
Like what are we doing? Like this is so crazy.
We just had Debbie Allen on and she directed it.
I love her. Oh she's so amazing.
She she directed the first time we had like a crazy sex scene and we were making each other laugh.
I just was so.
You know, we would have these like artistic conversations, me and Germo being like, well, we probably shouldn't make out like fits in Olivia because we're sick, like we are murderers spy people, so like we can't do like hot movie kissing. We have to do like.
Tongues down the throat hit it like creepy, like very weird. Are you cool with that?
Yeah, I'm cool that we thought we were having like all these artistic conversations, but I think it ended up in the end coming out coming out right.
I'm proud of it. I love that. And then you're gonna have obviously said some of the cast coming on. Oh, we've had yes, and we'll every season. We will because again, we just like to hang out and talk.
But we've had Shonda and Tony and Carrie and Scott Foley and Bellamy and Jeff Perry and Josh Maline every cast. But we've also had like big celebrity supporters of the time, Like we just had Jimmy Kimmel on because he had us on like every Thursday night as guests on his show, and he did a bunch of specials and things like that. And we just have a lot of people in the works who were big, like Gabrielle Union actually quoted Scandal and her wedding vows to Dwayne.
Wade and like she wants to come on and tell her story.
And Avid DuVernay directed an episode, and you know, we just had a lot of kind of prolific people circling the show, even fans, so we will be having them on the next season. And it's a good listen. It's pretty funny, I think, I hope I'm watch the show like it's it's I can't believe what Kerry Washington was doing. That's the other thing, Like I didn't realize. I mean, I know she was a great actress and I was on the receiving end of somebody that those things.
But now that i'm might you.
Know, now that I'm an old broad when I watch the show, I'm like, holy, Like, Olivia Pope should really go down as like one of the best television characters ever. So complicated, so strong, so smart, so conflicted, so cool, so amazing in her powerful powerful, like you just want to be her, and you just it's just she's a one of a kind. And when I watch back, like that really holds up. You're just like, Wow, Olivia Pope is Olivia Pope.
Well, we're all going to do a rewatch and we're going to be listening to Unpacking the Toolbox a scandal rewatch. Come visit us, Katie in your non spare time. Where are you see is Nashel the best. It's awesome, and it's awesome. Yeah, every I mean everyone from LA is you.
Should just come exact know my friend who's also on Hunting Wives, Chrissy Mets. Yeah, she lives a lot of places, but Nashville is one of them because she's a beautiful singer and a country music singer. And then another one, my friend Ben Folds is a singer and he lives in Nashville. I got to do a Nashville trip. So I've never been, never, not once. I don't even know how you get there.
It's great, it's flying LA. There's non stops and how long is that flight? It's like three and a half. Should I move there? I should come out. You don't have to be in LA anymore. That's that was like after COVID, it was like why why are we here? You know what I mean this is? And where are you from? Originally? I'm from Michigan originally, but I moved to LA when I was nineteen.
Oh that's right, okay, yeah, and then.
I wanted like Grass, yeah from Nashville. Cat's from here. I'm from Michigan as well. Oh great, Yeah, I don't know about this LA thing. I keep being like, you.
Know, the actress in me, the struggling waitress actress in me, is like, no, you have to be here, and it's like re teaching yourself, like no, the business has drastically changed, so is the world, and a lot of people do things virtually and remotely, and you can always fly in for anything you would need to.
So what are you doing. You're also wildly talented and you can do. People want you from wherever you live to Carolina. I loved Carolina. We need you, Katie, get to us. I need to say that to everybody. I would thank you, thank you for coming on. We really app.
Gosh, thank you guys for this sort and I'm so don't worry.
We will cross paths again. We will believe it. I feel it. I really believe it. You're going to have a watch party for you, guys. I feel it. Thank you guys so much for having me on. All right, You're the best girl. Thank you so much. Bye. I Oh. I love her. Her energy's so palpable.
See I'm still here now. I know it's perfect.
You're talking about you do it talk talking out least. I love it. Her energy is like comfortable, so much. She's so sweet. That's why I was so I just loved her characters, seen all their interviews, and like, you know, she was just like seemed like we would be like she'd fit into our little queendom. You know, she'd be a riot, she'd be so fun. Do that Cramer get her in. That's so crazy that, like I tried with her on the show, keep trying and should come back so good. It's such a good show, and I don't like they really should you guys, Shonda's brain is I I've said it before, but I would literally pay for a day past just to know what goes on in her brain. I love that she's so great. Love love love that I should be like Shonda if I have a baby, gang put me in a show. It's also crazy, like as you listen to Katie, like three different times she mentioned really powerful women, men that made powerful choices on her behalf of like feeding her dream and not like not stifling her, which is kind of rare, especially in this industry. I feel like, all, I guess we'll me see you next week. Lilea, Bye bye,
