Wind Down with Janet Kramer and Michael Coughlin, and I heard radio podcast wind Down on location Beach Front. We are in a beach front room right now. We're in Wilmington, North Carolina. This is just adults in socks. Right now. We have like a room full of like adults don't like their socks. Isn't it weird? It's like there's no one between. I do not like wearing socks. So when you go to a person's house, I think it's so weird. If a grown person, grown adult is just walking around in socks, I just I find it so bare feet is okay, shoes is obviously normal, but walking around the socks, walking around socks, I just think it is so silly. I can't do it. But then at the same time, though, I'm like, well, what if you don't have like, you know, what if I don't know if I want someone walking around barefoot too, if they're like, like, if you have other adults coming to your house, you shouldn't enforce the take off your shoes policy. We don't do that, but I do know some people that do. But again, it's like if it's like your core close group of friends or family, or like immediate family, Okay, fine, shoes off for socks off. Like she's irregardless if it's your closest friends or your immediate family. If you want to make them take their shoes off and there in socks, fine, But you don't have a big group of friends or a big family, everyone take your shoes off. You're meeting other grown men in their socks. I just think it's so weird, which is why I don't wear socks, and in general, I don't wear socks. I mean, I know, we all know you wear two pairs of socks, but I just I just don't like wearing socks. I don't. It's so because it's just when, because you know when you're gonna take your shoe off. I don't want to be stuck in socks one because they're always mismatched. To which Janna tried to do my laundry more time. This is the last time I had to do my whoa, this is the last time. This is when I told or not to touch my socks. But later laundry. I've the last months I've done your socks. Yes I have. I've folded all of them and just I just put them away. You don't know us. Six months since we've moved to Nashville, I've been folding your socks and doing them right and unfolding them out of the other ones because the doubles. Anyways, I don't I don't have to put up cameras or something because I don't have any proof of this. Yes, wow, yeah, I haven't really noticed that. Yeah, because I put them away for you. I've been putting away you were closes for you. Anyways, I appreciate you the notice that I've like put your clothes away when you have I've acknowledged, but I've done your socks. Maybe there's a light load that week wasn't okay moving about socks anyways. That just messed everything up. Now everyone's all rattled. Everyone. They sit in the room with us, like, this is what this podcast is about. Glad, I'm not listening to this one. She's upset about the fact that he doesn't remember that she puts away his socks. But go ahead. So, and it's been a year since I put away your socks. So we're here in Wilmington, North Carolina for a one tree year. I really needed to finish that. Our listeners do not need to hear the rest of that. Okay, we're here in Wilmington, North Carolina for one Tree Hill convention. Yes, and you're excited. I'm so excited. I'm so pumped. The fans love my love, love my Tree Hillers. Every time I ever um perform somewhere, I always think my Tree Hillers. I always dedicated a song to them because there they were there for me from the very beginning. I mean so much so that tonight when I was saying that to them, I started crying. And I'm so silly, why because I do hate crying on stage. It makes me and on the podcast, what you did that last week? But like not it's not to a bunch of people, get it. You know, I'm still embarrassed, but not to like but it's seeing it, but it's real. Well, yeah, that that emotion was real, just because I'm I'm super thankful for that. Who knows, I wouldn't have never gotten a record deal ever, right, I would not have got a record deal in a million years. It launched you. It was your it was your launching pad. So I just wanted to say thank you. And so when I said that, I just I just I just kind all choked up understandably, so, but I just I've always loved my Tree Hillers and I've always appreciated them, and so that's why, you know. And then I said I won't give up on you. And then I said I won't give up. Well, I will say I've been uh enjoying being here and kind of witnessing all of it and seeing you in this element of where like Janet Kramer was born, the place you were conceived, you know, and just to see the support because I've always seen that your shows, even before I even knew what the heck a One Tree Hill. Well, here's the thing, because because yeah, because obviously people who listen to this podcast know that Mike never watched One Tree Hill and you know, um, and so I mean, granted I haven't seen all of them either, but but but but but you know, when he go to shows, I would say, all right, where am I One Tree Hiller is at? And I mean every single show, the crowd goes louder than I mean, the crowd goes crazy. Even my band guys are always like whoa, because it's just they overpower their own Yes they do, which is why again I'm always so thankful for them, and you know, and you were like, who are these one Tree hillers? And now you were able to meet them and see them. I was I never really got it. So I figured and those of you who are at the show to I understand this, heard this story, but I'm gonna say for our listeners who weren't there in the crowd. But I was like, all right, we're coming to Wilmington. I've been putting off watching any of the show I've seen, like the time you saying I saw the at and I think the time you're like in the bathtub slitty wrist or something spoiler alert. So I was like, all right, let me download some episodes to watch on the way to Wilmington's too, like One Free Hill Country. So I do that and I'm watching. I download the first Chevel that Jana is in in season seven, and I just keep looking over at her and she's like what finally like take my headphones off. I'm like, you're the worst. I'm like, Alex do pray sucks. I was like, I've caught myself like looking over you with a face like damn, but it was it was just your character. Yeah. I was like, this is so started out that. I was like, this is so not you, first of all, So it's weird for me to be like, okay, you're like straight up actually like this is acting. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like, this is so not you. It's the farthest thing from your character. So it's just weird to see because I mean, my character was an alcoholic drug user. I've never touched a drug or been drunk in my life. So it was just like so polar, just mean to everybody, and you know, yeah, so I was just like my whole and that's what I was asking the crowd, and I was like, how do you guys like her? The character? It's just the character, I mean, yeah, I mean I think she becomes redeemable. I'm gonna we'll talk more about that later, but yeah, because you're like, why do you why how do people end up liking you? So yeah, I'm very intrigued to find out. Okay, so we're going to talk to Daphne Zunigaum, who played Brooks Mom. Yes, yes, hey, but first let's take a break. Hello Hi Daphne. Hello, wait, let me pour some more one Oh my god, yeah I just poured them too, my girl. Hi, Daphne Hi Dianna on the line. You also have my husband, Mike. Hi, Mike. UM, my husband wants to ask if you want the opera turned down? By the way, I never knew he loved opera. I've been together thirteen years. You never liked the learning about never arned? Don't turn down? I come, he's playing opera and he said, do you want me to turn the opera down? Does he want to be an opera singer? No? But it's like I didn't even know I liked opera, Like I've known him for twelve thirteen years. Okay, well, so this is since this is a relationship podcast. Um, you've been with him for thirteen years, so are you? So it's so you're still finding out things about your husband that you didn't know he liked. For example, Yes, yes, what are you finding out about your husband thirteen years later? Oh my god? Well, UM, that's a good question. Let's see. Um, it's so funny because I know so much about him, and I have to be careful not to just assume what he's gonna say and predict what he's gonna want and expect the fame. All thing that I know and that doesn't give him any room to like, you know, be spontaneous or change it up a bit, because I'll be like, you know, I think that's more of I know so much about him that it's like, um, it's more of that, like I try to anyway. So I was a little bit thrilled about the opera. As my point, it was like, oh, this is kind of sexy. You're like, okay, I go like literally, then she started singing Christmas opera like Silent Night, like so here we are a random you know, February Friday, and I'm like, so we're listening to Christmas music? Yeah, how do you think after thirteen years? Like, what do you do that changes things up? Well, Jannah, not only are we thirteen years together, but um, I'm like five older than and he's older than me. So hot. Um, well, you know, just even if it's is it, yeah, do you still make sure you do the date nights? Do you? You know? What? What's what's different now than than it was? Well, you know it's weird is that we I think because I we each waited so long, like he like, we were older when we met, so even though it was thirteen years ago, we I was in my mid forties. He was like he was fifty, no, in his fifties and he so so we really liked each other. Like we spent seven as most, but we he doesn't get up and he works at home because in office here and when I'm not working, I'm here. So we spent a lot of time together and I'm just grateful we get along. You know, we just got along, and so I feel like effort definitely goes into it, Like it's not like if I were with someone that I didn't know that well and love as much. Now it's like I want to do this. I want to see him happy. I want to see him and for him a sister natural. I came home the other day and there's like roses everywhere, like what and yeah, I mean he just because he went to the farmers market and he put a you know, a bouquet over here and went up in the room and and I went out the other day and then I bought some for him, just because it's a Tuesday, that kind of thing, like it just becomes this familiar. I think it's overall, we've learned to treat each other well and listen to each other, and that makes it day to day fun and exciting and you know we have serious life issues to deal with two. But um so I think it's like that it kind of blends. I don't know, we really get along, but yeah, of course, you know, we kind of drive each other cz. I mean, I feel like that one year of Mary to years of marriage. But do you think the communication is what's grown throughout those years or what do you think is kind of gotten better than you know, and what's maybe like, oh I need to do better at this. Okay, Well, the way we communicate is changed, and so just by nature, I'm I go to, uh, you know, being loud and I need to be heard, and I'm like, I get very you know, angry. If I feel like I'm not, I get triggered, as it were, from like when I wasn't heard as a child or as a freaking actress for thirty years or whatever. My I would go to like you know, zero to sixty in a second and just react. And he tends to go inward. His motive dealing with difficulty, and especially if someone's if I'm angry, is to go inward. And that's a terrible bonding Chattern because that just makes me more angry. So I have literally had to work on that and you know, talk to my therapists about it and and really not take his niceness for granted. So here we are and years later, and I don't do that anymore. I just I just don't because I realized with him, I don't need to and but I do need to say. I need to know that you're listening to me right now, you know, like and one thing, Janna, I don't. I don't know your guys relationship, Mike, but I I read this book called The Female Brain, and there's the same writer. She's a neuroscientist, and she wrote a book The Male Brain too. What she said is more of a pamphlet. But we are simple creatures. But um, you know, I've learned things like just because I'm feeling something in the moment and it feels really intense and I need to be heard. I need him to know this, and he can't necessarily take it all in, so I have to go. I have to be respectful of how he can take it in and how how and when. So if I have something really important to say, I'll say, David, I need to say, I want to talk about you know this one thing. Can we at lunch or this afternoon, can we discuss blah blah blah, you know, maybe just twenty minutes. Then he can file it away and know and agree to it, and then he can give me all of his listening. But if I see what I think tends to happen is we look for an opening, right like we look for an opening in the guy's attention, and then we just want to fill it all in Jesus was listening another thing, you know. But and and they just can't take it. And and David, what does his eyes will start to glaze over? Are used to I should say? And I'm like, no, listening to me, And he's like, I can't please stop talking, you know. And so that's in a lesson, a lesson to learn. And over the years of getting to know each other, it really is like, yeah, I had to go, okay, if I have something important to say, and it's like I need his full attention. I need to say, you know, at this time, what time is good? Let's talk, whether it's trips we're going to take, or jobs, or finances or the neighbor or the whatever it is. It can't be like I'm inspired, and so I just can't say it. And if he had something to say to me, I could take it in, but he can't, and it's not fair, like we communicate differently and take things in differently. What would you attribute that to? What would you attribute that to most, Daphne with is it just maturing in yourself or the therapy work that you're doing to be able to look in the mirror and be like, Okay, I need to change how I'm delivering this because I feel like just in janinize relationship, it's it's taken some time for us to to really, you know, spend our individual therapiesons actually talking about ourselves and not the other person, right, And I feel like that's for everyone that's new in therapy. You go in, you feel like it's a place to vent about your partner, your significant significant other. But now Gina and I both have therapists that are like, are you here to talk about them or yourself? Because I'm here to talk about you. And so again, is it something like within yourself, like what helped you realize Okay, this is what I need to do and not worry about what David needs to do. Yes, absolutely, right, and I, you know, when I got into therapy, gosh years ago, I thought, I'm going to be there from us. I'm gonna know a couple of sessions, deal with this crazy guy that I was into and fix him and then I'll see you later, Andre, you know. And she kept bringing it back to me, bringing it back to me, and I'm like, listen, I'm really smart. Don't trust me, I'm not help Yeah, and so yes, it's definitely um. But she would point out, like, you know, I think guys have they have a frailty that the world doesn't really encourage or accept, and so they've learned to, you know, keep it in. And when I would see that I'm hurting this guy that I love so much, that really hit me, like it it hurt him. The way I would act out it hurt him. I could walk away from a explosion or whatever because I was used to it and I didn't grow up with role models of men that had that, you know, could listen and respected and were sensitive. And so when I saw she helped me see that. So to answer your question, like he she would say, do you see how that hurts him? And that he can't leave a situation like that, like you can and he and he, and sure enough I would see he'd be quiet for a while, you know, like for a day even the next day, and it's just and so that I learned not only doesn't hurt him and I don't want to do it, but the union and the closeness that I was wanting is fractured. It's not there the next day in the silence and the hurt and the remnants of this acting out. And so I got really aware of that, and I thought, wow, it's hurting what I want to because I believe it or not. In those emotional expressions, I wanted nothing other than being so close and excuse my language, and trusting and and I want him to have my back. And I just wanted to like be so close and my behavior I had to really realize it. And so, you know, I'm still an expressive person. But I will you know, have my blow off in the you know, in the car or you know, not road rage to other people, but like all my own or I'll do it in my head. I'll have a little monolog, get out of my system, and then you know, treat him more skillfully and be with him. And I get what we want out of that, and ever since that has changed, and by the way he's had to come out of his shell, we both had to change for sure. And I appreciate you saying that because I feel like that is still something that you know, society is catching up on with that. Men, we can be and we ultimately want to be sensitive creatures. We are sensitive creatures, but like you said, we're kind of taught otherwise from a general statement, um as a general species. But even I mean, Janna and had Janna and I had a situation earlier today where she kind of made a joke about something and it hurt my feelings, and when she kind of noticed that, you know, she playfully just kind of be like, oh, don't be sensitive, And it was just I think there's still that common misconception at times where it's just we're supposed to just take it and let it roll off of us more than maybe females, where it's like, if I would have said a similar thing, it would have to be this big like I'm you know, I'm sorry and I didn't mean it, and it would have been taken as so much more. But it's like, men, it's like we're just supposed to be, like, why are you getting upset about that? Like your guy like you don't be sensitive, you know. So it's a thing that we're still navigating. Yeah, no, I know, I know. And um, I you know what I realized. The more work that you and Jannah do with yourselves and we all do with ourselves and and and then with our partners, the better the more each gender is going to get what they want, you know, the more like the more you guys can talk through that or yeah, like if I hurt David's feelings or he hurts mine, by the way, because you know, guys also to protect that might be flippant about things or say things about women like you know whatever, and that might upset me. And so I feel like, um, it goes both ways, and it is. It's interesting, this whole relating in a real conscious Our goal is to be in conscious relationships. You guys are both in there. You're trying to be conscious human beings, and I don't think our world has conditioned us for that. So we have to forge it ourselves and with support of like minded people. Because you look out there that hello tender hookups. I mean, you know what I mean? It's like, which is fine. I know people that have met on that. But and but it's like, where's our model not a brought on ground for conscious relationships? Sure, any of our our society in general, because we objectivized both. And it's and I think, guys, you know, the other thing I might say symtom on the topic of in women in relationships is another thing that I used to want from the man, and I've learned that with and you know, David gets a benefit of my twenty years affairly and I have you know, but um is that women want to work out everything like we work through stuff verbally. We think about it, we talk about it, we talk with our girlfriends. All we do is talk. It's like to get to this emotional intelligence about things and then figure it out. And men don't a and be you know, they shouldn't have to like the like in a relationship. He shouldn't have to deal with every blip on my screen. He just shouldn't. And so I think often we have to learn Janna to like, oh dear. If it's really intense, then you pick up the phone and it's either a therapist or your friend or your work or something. And it's like I need to do it because usually when we because that's what I've been trying to was like, okay, instead of me either lashing out or word vomiting, word vomiting all over him, I'll call a friend, I'll call you know, girl that I've considered my sponsor, or, I'll call you know, I'll email my therapist and something, and by the time that I've voiced it out, I go back to him in a way different version of myself because I had thought about it, I've had you know, I rationalized it a little bit. Or at the end of the day too, I'm like, it's not even it actually doesn't you know, it doesn't trigger me as bad as I thought it did, or I see it a different way now, and then it's not really anything. It has more to do with something that I felt, not anything that he maybe did. So it's recognizing that too, or it's just like okay, because sometimes too, even where I'm like, do we have to make it a big deal, you know, like let's just let's just say we both yes, we both did that wrong, and not make it so heavy all the time too, because I feel it can just be so heavy. I'm like, can we just have an argument and not go into everything and just be like and move on? I mean, but but I feel like that's so it's like, no, I want to pick a part. Well, No, It's funny is when I want to do that, he was won't stop. Like even the other day in therapy he's like, I want thousand percent? Was the wrong and like he's like I just kept going, and it's like he knows when he does it. I know what I'm doing it, and we just when you want to stop, but you like physically can't stop, and then you've already started, so it's like you might as well just go down the slide. Yeah, it's like, oh, you know, my therapist used to say, because of those reactions I told you about, you know that that would just literally come out and I could annihilate in in a second and just set off a bomb and and not even care and then walk up. This is even before this, before David, it wasn't that bad, you know, my twenties and thirties and you know, it was like she would say, it's like it's like a runaway train. It's like you have to have technique to stop it. You either have to leave the moment, just walk away, say I'm just walking away, I'm stopping the train and just talk or something that you can stop that own train in yourself because the more you do this work, the more conscious and aware of this you. I think you know more now what the end results going to be if you let that train go. And it may feel good in the moment and it's cathartic and you're piste off, but you are going to do damage and you're now you know it. And so it does take that extra effort of like I've got to stop the train and thank god I learned not and um, because it's so destructive and it doesn't get you what you want, you know, girl, Hey, so I love that. So we're ready to make it light or we've done with the therapy. You're like on that. No, no, I no, I totally hear you. So we're going to stop the train right now. And um, because this is a tree hill Um episode and we are you know, a lot of the listeners are always said, please please please, like talk about one Tree hill Um and so I'm like, okay, I'm here in Wilmington's like, there's no better time to talk about One Tree Hill. Yeah, why did you love? Um? What was what was the best part of playing your character? Well, I mean besides what being her mom and you know, enacting out all that shadow like craziness and bitchiness was cathartic um for me, you know, now that you know about me, I had that side of me. I did channel it into Victoria for sure. Like I had zero apologies, Like after they said cut, I would go over and say so sorry. But while I'm doing it, it felt it felt good, you know, um, because you don't really get to do that in life. Um, So I got to be very bitchy and stuff. But I loved being in Wilmington's away from you know, I just like every time I would fly in, I could just leave my troubles behind and leave regular life behind. And being on location in that small town and the friendships that I made and even the alone time was just it was so nice. I don't know, I loved, you know, whether it's walking on Rightsful Beach or um taking drives or whatever it was, you know, going to cafe downtown or meeting people for dinner at Deluxe remember that, Like it was oh my god, Deluxe. Yeah, yeah, I love that this was so good, you know, and I just love being in the town. Is this and this is just coming from a non actor here, Daphne, And I've always wondered Jane always, even when I called Jena, you know, success successful actress and singer, she like shots away because she can't stand a compliment. So asking another you know, actress that's been successful, Like when you have these different characters and the you know, the character that you had on One Tree Hill and in Um and everything, what do you find like what helps you kind of get even more into that character. Is it's something that you find that you personally attached to to make that character yours or is it just something you just kind of, you know, attack randomly, or is it how do you kind of inspire that role that you take on? Um? Yeah, I had an acting coach a long time ago who said, the more specific, uh, the more universal, Like you have to make things specific if for for I mean, listen, when you're doing a TV show and it has to be done, you go quickly and you made it. You don't get rehearsal time, No one's rehearsing. There were just you know, and I've done other TV shows. So I've learned that and so, but to make it rewarding for myself, I pull definitely from my own experiences and I try to sometimes dig in and see because it at face value, you might read it and go, I don't relate to this at all, Like I've never done this. I've never run a multi million dollar company or hated my daughter. I've never even had a daughter or whatever. But when of I felt threatened, what's really important to me? Oh my acting? Okay, well what if someone said you can't do that anymore? Like how threatened? So I pull up from myself what's real for me that would create that behavior, protecting my acting or protecting a child or an animal or something. That's how I substitute and make it really real. And the world just knows that I'm you know, yelling at the person in front of me. They don't and they fill in. So that's one way that I make it for Yeah, I mean, and neither. You're so always so good. I mean, you've been in freaking a million things and everything. Every time you're on screen, and you know, acting against it, you're just you're you're giving, You're amazing, You're so good and that's why, like, I hope that one day we can actually do something again together. I've been I've been trying, and I want I want a thing. I mean that would be that would be great. I'd love what are you doing right now again? Okay, um, let's see gig one. Yes, that was so fun because I was a serial dater who was a suspect, a murderer suspect. But also I got to do comedy because I love to do comedy. Um, and so I was a comic relief in that with the guy I was playing opposite of it. That was really fold and everyone there was I mean, you were in spaceball, so comedy has to be running through you. Yes, And um, I just emailed mail Brooks. Every once a year, I'm emailed and go, hello, let's do what redo? Everyone wants his spacebo. There was an article that Rick moranis is doing a reboot of Honey I Shrunk the Kids Like. It came out yesterday and the day before and so he's acting again because he had been in retirement. So I was like, well and I sent him the article and I'm like, your princess. So yeah, so that's great. Love that any juicy any juicy one Tree Hill h. Things that you can remember that you can leave with with the listeners. Anything juicy h. You mean, like of storyline or just just being there behind the scenes juicy Nous. I know, we don't. You have to remember. I was like so much older, Like I'm sure there was Juicy Nous going out like probably every Thursday Friday night, but I was like back at the hotel, and do you know, I feel we're gonna miss each other. I know I hate it more than anything, but viously, everyone like just follow love on Daphne. She's the best. Um. Anything you want to leave the listeners with, well, just um, you know, just that you're I love that you guys are doing this podcast and you're doing this together and you're sharing real life, Like that's how we help each other by sharing our truth and our stories and we all kind of connect and and I love that you guys are this relationship that is really doing it in you know, in a conscious awakened way, and you're doing you're doing the work like nothing's ever gonna be perfect. You're never gonna find Mr. Or Mrs Perfect. You literally have to, like you know, work on yourself, get to a place where you're gonna attract and be attracted to someone who's healthy and loving and then and and they have to want to do the work. And I just love that you're putting it out there. We love you so much, We so appreciate you. See. So, Okay, okay, we're gonna go back to listen to some of Okay, Okay, bye, guys. I love her. She's awesome. She's so great because I do remember just sitting at you know, at the restaurant with her and just talking. And I've just always I don't know, I've just always looked up to her because she's a firecracker. She's fierce, and she's she says what she wants, she does what she is. She's just she's awesome and I really like I love her. I love to meet her in person. I feel like her energy is great. Oh, she's the best. I tried to get her to play my mom in the last film, but it didn't work out. I know, mom, maybe the next one. That's why she said that, she's like, maybe next one and play your mom. But she's so sweet. Um. So it really is a house no, a hotel party, do I say a house party? But it's a I mean, we've got obviously Eastan and Tori win to uh to Wilmington, North Carolina. It's Tori's birthday today. How young are you? I feel old? Five? Can you start rounding up after I'm a decade and great? Once you're twenty six and you're the back end of it, then you're like, okay, you're you're entering the best years of your life. Really, when I hit thirty, that is when my life changed. What hands down the best. There's a lot going on, but your eggs start dying. Now, how old are you? But that's why I panic. I'm thinking thirty. If I don't have fifty kids out, I'm just And I thought the same thing. And when I turned thirty and I was single, and I was crying in my back with yeah I was thirty, sing goal had a comforter her over my head, bawling my eyes out, and my best friend Katherine was like, she comes over, She's like, you can't lay in bed and cry all day. I was like, I was listen to be married. I was three kids by now I didn't do that. Wait, this is so good. Yeah, So that's where I mean, no joke, So what was the flip of a switch for you? Um what was the my switch? You know what it was? I I was just like, you know what, I'm I'm done looking for it. I flew to Hawaii. I had some fun with a friend and we Why did you guys think it was with the I went with Amy. I was just I had fun and was just like, you know what, I'm just not supposed I wasn't supposed to be married with kids right now, So what am I supposed to be doing? I'm supposed to be having fun. So I went to Hawaii. I had fun. I didn't care. And then I was like, you know what, I don't want to be with you. Why am I even hearing? Why with you? And so I was just like, I'm having fun with my friend Amy. So Amy and I just like hung out, had a great time. I didn't see that other dude again. And I came back from Hawaii and that's when I was just like, I'm just gonna be me and I'm gonna have but I have no apology. I'm not gonna apologize for my past. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna move to San Diego for a dude. I never even wanted to be with because that's what I was gonna do. That's kind of day direct message from but kind of but no, but it wasn't. It wasn't right then. It was about six months later. But for those six months, I was for the first time in my life, I was happy to be single. And I couldn't. I could never say that ever. Interesting, you stop putting the standards like I just stopped saying. I just stopped being like, can I try and change him? Can I will he be the father? Okay? Because I need a kid right now? So I'm like, how can I make you be the like the dad? It is really annoying that like men can have babies literally seven for the next hundred years ago. And that's when Michael and I when we when we started dating and then we uh he moved in and we started talking about okay, timelines and he was like, yeah, I could wait a couple of years to get married. And in my mind, I'm already one, and I'm like, you know, I was, I was like I was almost already one. And in my mind when he said that, I was like, well, how long And He's like, I don't know, like five years, five years I was like, I'm dead. I had no eggs zero and we're the Sahara Desert and that's where that is a little while the things compared to now. Yeah, yeah, but no, it's true. But I mean I think about now and I'm like, well, shoot, I'm thirty six and I'm still barking at the tree for another kid. So it's you know, you can you know, I have a friend at you know, forty three that just got pregnant with the baby Janet Jackson had one at fifty. Heck, yeah, So I think, I mean, it's changing. The problem is is that I came from a really small town. It's not super small, but all my friends, you're the norm was to have kids in your young twenties. That's just what it was where I'm from. It's it's like not even getting married first, it's having a baby first. And I'm like, I have two of my friends just say that they're pregnant. Um and three friends get engaged this past week. So I got hit with a doozy a little bit. But we're going to Sarah's wedding, so they we're going to stay his wedding this happy birthday. Yeah, we're doing great, We're doing great, son. And then also in their room, we've got um my band guys that are in the room and Kylie Hi, Guylee. Kylie is our nanny, UM and she came because well here do you want to hop in on this one chee and Rice? So Kylie um is there nanny and she's awesome and she she didn't when did you tell me that you were a massive fan of One Tree Hill. So one night you said that going gets really bad postmate service, and you said you were hungry for dinner, and I offered to drive over and bring it to you because I wanted to spend quality time with you, um and so, and he bought me dinner. So that was great. And then we may have addressed the idea that you didn't want a hot nanny. And then after that, I was like, by the way, since we're on this level right now, I'm a One treeal fan like major, it was after that I just felt we were really vulnerable in that moment. Well, by the way, I just it was so awful because we had hired you right after the whole hot nanny scandal, and my heart was just like it hurt because for you, because that's I'm the one that addressed it with you. I was like, I want you to know I think you're beautiful. And I was like, I know, I'm beautiful. I'm good, Like I'm good. But when she saw tree Hill on the calendar, she's like, are you going to Wilmington's. She's like, I'm going with you? And I was like, well, I don't think Mike wanted. I don't think from last I don't think dad wanted to bring the kids, just like how we talked about last week on the podcast. And I was like, so you know, I'm like, who would watch the kids? And I'm calling grandma's and Nana's and Papa's and Mike's like, why are we doing this so Kylie can go. I'm like, you don't understand. I understand she's a one tree Hiller. She's like, this would really mean a lot to her. Baby's like, that's what job is to watch the kids. And if we're going to be gone doing a podcast, like she who's going to watch the things? We know where we keep the nanny. I mean, job description says, you know why we go work. But I'm just saying there would have been less laundry. Folded, I would have put the dishes away worse like, it just would have been bad for a while, but I would have gotten over soon. I started sleeping with one eye opened because I'm afraid Kylie was going to come slip me in the middle. Literally, up until this week, Mike has threatened to take Tree Hill away from me. I like fear based discipline, truly in our household. Nobody almost went away, and then I felt so terrible, Like Mike, we have to make it work, you know. I was like, because he was like, well, we can't bring James. It's going to be you know, do we really want to bring That's what it sounds like to us. Want to do we want to take him away for you? And I was like, no, but it's for Kylie. Just think it's for Kylie. It's for Kylie. It's for Kylie, and you know, and so important. Finally, Katherine m bff stepped in, who's also my manager. She's like, I'll watch the baby, and again Matt, Mike's in the background going, it's not your job, gather, that's why we paid Kylie. Mike. Contrary to popular belief, these two people like me like they think I'm great company and they love me. Okay, so anyways, long story short, Katherine has Jason right now. Thank you, Catherine, I love you so much. I'm so sorry. You're the best. Thank you. And then three babysitting. I was just like, well, I really want to bring obviously again from last week. I was like, I really want to bring Jolie. So you know, um, Jolie is here with us, and uh, Mike is watching Jolie walk to what Kylie is with me? And when someone has to be the Jane she doesn't meet and greech, you can't do it by herself with the cop and the handler and all those people. I have to be there. But but are you happy to be here? Oh? Wow, I'm shaking right now. You know, this is just like my acceptance speech. I don't even know what to say. Really excited. If anyone wants to go, check my Instagram out you can see I tried to play it cool with Peyton aka Hillary, um, but I didn't and there's a live picture of me. Just be like, oh my god. Then she asked me what my name was and I kind of forgot it for a second. I'm gonna be better. I'm gonna be better tomorrow. But I didn't get the nervous hands. I was really proud about. I haven't though now. But then, well you did great, I am, Kylie. I'm I'm happy to do it. I'm happy to see you happy. Thank you. I'm gonna fold your socks right from now on. And now, all of a sudden, I sound like this high maintenance, like Janet, how how is it folding Mike's laundry? It's difficult, but I've been doing and so did. Were you here in the beginning when we were talking about this, No is this while God's I don't know what you're talking about today. Oh whoa, that's weird because Kylie was in there making sure that Jolie was I was like, make sure she falls like fully fully asleep until you commented and um, and so what we were talking about the fact that Mike said that I haven't done his socks in a while. I was like, I've been putting your socks away and doing them. And that's hilarious that you went back to the socks. The socks were hard for it because he does like doubles. I was literally folding his laundre in front of him one day like this is a couple weeks ago, and he looked at me. He was like, kind, that makes no sense. And I was like, this is the Marie Condo way. Like I don't know what you're doing, but it's very popular on Twitter, Netflix, Instagram. People do this for life. And he was like, Kylie, like, no, that's just it doesn't make sense because when you unfold him, that's not how you put them on. And I wear two pairs and like all those kind of stuff. I literally looked at him and I was like, Mike, I'm not doing it anymore. Just like doing it anyway, you know. I just do that sometimes, like I just like, I just do it. And I said, it's just like the knives and the pots and pants. I was like, if y'all don't want to hand wash them, then leave them butter butterfingers. It's not my fault you picked up a knife. By the knife part, like I don't know, like that's what they teach you. You'll need a minute to work or like what's going on here? And I'm just saying, okay, so I gotta keep my job. Maybe we do need other kids have another son, I guess moreness in their family surrounded by women attacking me right now. Mike, Mike, Mike, you are really great. Dad were sensitive creatures. You know what. We'll spring Carl and then Carl her You're on you y'all give it up for Kyle. Foul Kylie, Kyl can't sweat guys, Carl, Kylie, come on, Carl, Um, Carl's in here with the rest of the band dudes, and um. He would like to he by the way, he killed it on stage today. Thank you. Do you remember the speech that you said, I can recite it? What was it again? Well? Can I get my I gave the six billion speech. It went away. I mean, it went great. It was great, and I felt, um, I felt like I really uh did something that everybody enjoyed. Do you like being on the road. I'm Carl. I like fun words. I also would like I just like to point out that I'm wearing my socks because you asked me to take the shoes off a while ago. If you like the description of those things just needs to be like men in socks. I'm just excited to be on the show. I've never been on the shows. My first time I've been on the like the live show. Yeah, Carl has been coming on the live show with us along with the other dudes in the room, and um, what do you like being out on the road. I enjoyed being out of the road with you guys because you were out. You know, you've been out with some amazing people. What obviously in your relationship to how hard is that to be on the road, um, touring, especially with you know, in the venues and the other women. Is that something that has become a strain in the relationship where you just know what makes the strong foundation. It's it's not a strain because my girlfriend's dad is uh, he's he's very famous. He's the singer and Leonard skinnerd so he she gets it. Yeah, she's actually out on the road more than I am. Now. She's going to Europe and South America this year, maybe Australia, I don't know wherever else. She's cool. Yeah, So it's there's a lot of understanding. But I've had some, you know, people that haven't understood. Like my grandfather. He doesn't understand what I do. I have more disagreements with my grandfather than my girlfriend as far as being well, you don't find about anything. He just goes. He just kind of looks at me in the eye and goes, I just don't understand your life. You get a job, you worked there for forty years, you retire, son, Yeah, that's it. Yea. I have a story actually i'd like to tell from the road please. Has has to do with tor his birthday. Really yeah? Yeah, So you're that's awesome. Do you know what happens when you turned twenty eight? I'm terrified. Okay, there's this thing called Saturn returns. Anyone ever heard of it? Okay, I'm gonna tell you a whole story about it. It's great. It's not gonna be too long, Easton, It's gonna it'll be entertaining. So uh oh yeah. I like how you just resituated yourself situated myself. I'm leaning more on the pillow on the bed because we're all laying on about it right now. I would also like to give a shout out to the studio audience that is not sound effects made by Easton, that is an actual audience. So you asked me about the road, and uh, one of my first experiences ever on the road after I've been in the Nationale for ten years. Uh, and probably six seven years ago. I was m this is before I had a girlfriend. I want to make that really clear because this story is not going it sounds very good. Uh sorry, this relates back to you, Tori. It's gonna make a lot of sense. So I'm out in San Jose doing a radio show playing an acoustic guitar for an artist, and um, I hadn't had the greatest time with them. So I uh We're sitting in the airport going to Atlanta, uh, middle of the night, red eye kind of thing, going back to Nashville, and um, you know, I've got my seats set up and I'm gonna have to sit next to you know, the artist unnamed artist uh for the next you know, four or five hours in my life. And all of a sudden, the gate attendant comes on and you know, announces that they need some volunteers that would like a voucher to uh go the next morning. Yeah, boy, I'm your guy right here. How can you do that? Because if you can't do that, if you're traveling with the band, well it was the end of the run, so we're all going home anyway. So I said, well, I would I would like to get off this artist yeah, yeah, it was just I wish you could tell us the name. I don't want to say. I don't want to say. Well, you know, you have me back on the show another time. Uh, have you guys come to Texas? Um, maybe Carl will tell us there for the wind Down tour because we're coming to San Antonio, Austin, Houston, Dallas. It's gonna be really fun the first weekend in March. So a lot of uh yeah, a lot of insider information for those folks if you come to those shows, because I'll be there. So anyway, I get off this flight and I take my voucher and I'm the only one that does it, and I go out to the stand to get into the hotel line, you know, for the hotel show, and there's this other girl. She's pretty alternative looking. Um she's got kind of a you know, a hippie ish type look to her. And I go, oh, this would be interesting. So I get on the bus and start talking to her and I go, you know, hi, I'm going to the did you get off the flight too? And she was the other person to get off the flight. She's around my age. I was about twenty eight at the time. And uh, we're driving over to the Holiday Inn and uh, she you know, tells me her name and I find it odds. Her name's Opal Opal King beautiful. It's not beauty. Well, her name is Jennifer. But she said she earned that name at Joshua Tree. Oh I love Joshua Tree, really does opal Um. So anyway, we get over to the hotel and I'm kind of talking to her and she goes, oh, I'm just coming back from Taiwan and I have a wife over there. I'm like, oh, interesting, and where are you going? Now? Over to South Carolina? I have you know this this other friend I'm gonna spend some time with. But I'm stopping here in California for a few days. I buried a couple of grand in the ground, and you know, it's going like weird. So I'm thinking to myself, I'm any A Graham one. So where Sarah for this? Come off your look. I'd also like to point out that I am on the bed, Tories on the bed, and Mike is just slightly off the bed. He's staring very creepily at me. Carl's on Jana side of the bed at the foot of the bed, while I'm sitting on the side. Ye. So anyway, I really just would like to know the point. I'm getting to the point. It's just gonna be great. It's all gonna wrap up very quickly. I just want to on the podcast episode. It's gonna be great. So we get to the hotel and I'm thinking to myself, I can just tell from talking to her she's just not gonna have a credit card for incidentals. So I just kind of, you know, we get off the bus and I offer for her to go first, because I go, you know, I know how you're up. Yeah. So she walks up there and she uh starts to check in, and the attendant behind the Holiday and Express starts going, well, man, can do you have a card you can put on file for incidentals? Because the rooms free, but you do have to have a card for incidentals. I know this as an any of Graham one. I follow the rules. I got my checklists, so um. Anyway, uh, she starts like checking in, and she pulls a debit card out of her wallet that expired five years prior to the day. We're sitting there and she's trying to show it to the guy, and the guy's going, you know, I can't take this. Uh, it's got to be an active card. We gotta charge of you know, a certain amount in order to check in and so immediately, just because of our conversation on the way the hotel, she turns to me and goes, you know, do you have a credit I know you got one as well, be Chad, come on, come on, Kyle, give me your credit card. Come on, white, let's go. And naturally, because I'm because my name is Carl, I said no because I didn't know if maybe this was I'm just gonna get ripped off with a k I'm edging now because I mentioned earlier that this is prior to me having a relationship. I go, you know, it would be fun. I gotta leave here in five hours. I'm gonna offer this girl. I'm not gonna give you my card for incidentals, but I'd be happy for you to hang out on the other bed and we'll hang out for a couple of hours before I have to leave. Carl, I know it's not the same thing because if I'm in the room, I can watch to make sure she hasn't purchased movies are gone in the minibar um like you're leaving, so she still has the room available to herself when you leave. Look, so I was twenty eight when this was happening. This is where the good bye sign our Carl. Thanks okay, So I would like my breakfast delivered to me in bed. It wasn't that kind of hotel. They didn't have anything like that there. So anyway, we're sitting there, We'll start talking and I'm listening to the episode of Dateline. I'm like, where's the murder? It's coming, it's coming. So she's talking to me and I'm I'm kind of telling her what's going on. I remember turning twenty next week or whatever. And she goes, oh Saturn returns. Oh, I go, what does that mean? She goes, you know, think now her name is Opal King. She earned that name and Joshua Tree and she's so I'm believing everything she's saying, because if she's going to know something, it's going to be something like this that she knows about. So Saturn returns is when you turned twenty eight years old, Saturn is in the exact same spot it was when you were born. And it's supposed to create a sling shot into your next twenty eight years. Yeah, well, so the whole thing is five minute story that we're gonna have to figure out. Well it's been a lot more than five minutes, um. But anyway, when if you're doing what you want to do by twenty eight, it's supposed to be a slingshot into the next interesting anyway, three years anyway, So we're sitting there, it's almost that, and then as soon as she's telling is actually the year google. Well that's why I guess I get that extra year and a half to prepare myself. Um. So I'm sitting there and I'm kind of telling her I'm actually gonna play on Letterman like two months later, and she's like, oh, this is great, Saturn returns blah blah. So anyway that the time's going by and I'm feeling really inspired, and all of a sudden, she's sitting on the other bed and she goes so seriously like, she's in the other the room with you on the other bed. Yeah, we've got you know, twin beds on each side of queens whatever it is a couple of queens. Um, And she just goes, do you know what duct tape does? What I go no, yeah, she gotta go no, she goes it turns no no no into mmm mmm mmmmm stop. Yeah, what happened? Do I want to know? I just was shot and go to it. Just needn't know the ending. I don't really want to know. If y'all know nothing happened. I immediately was like, I need to refresh myself for the next day. I'm gonna excuse myself from the room now. Uh. And then later she told me that her instrument is that she really wants to play the digery do anyway, So that's story. Thank you for sharing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and uh. Then later she moved to Alaska and joined a and and also purchased land in Uruguay and close. We actually email every couple of years, so it's uh wow, Well give it up for Carl. Podcasts come up, but we're still going. Okay. I do appreciate hanging with you guys, and I want to share more stories at the podcast, but you'll probably need to limit my time. Okay. We love you, Carl. Hi, I have no words. Okay, So that was way too much fun between Carl and Kylie and Daphne and just the socks. I'm we're gonna yeah, it's gonna be great. Um, So we don't have time for this episode, but to be continued because next week we'll Chase and Alex have a reunion on the Wide Down podcast st