Wine Down with Janet Kramer and I heard radio podcast how is Everybody? I'm actually in a good mood today and not like actually but like I feel I can tell. I'm just like I don't know, I feel like it's Monday, it's bouncy, like yeah, like today is a good day. That's good? Yeah? Is there a reason? That's the thing? I know, Like what would you talk to swear? I just think Marks, like, well, guy is it? And like no, I swear, I'm just like in a good mood. Why don't I trust this more to this story because you're in a great mood. I am in a great mood. I'm just happy today and I like to see Mark. Mark just makes me funny, Mark, and you must be happy. That's I'm in different sort of situations lately. I'm just seeing you happy as a wonderful thing. And yes, I'm very happy that you're in the situation you're in. Not approved for lost situation. I did not and whatever the currents is, Sam, there is no current situation that's not responsible for that amazing bright smile on your face. No, I'm like, I genuinely got really excited when I saw you come on. Well, that is so sweet. Yeah, like I feel like I haven't seen you in a minute and it has been a while. No, it was good. I listened to this. Um, I just want to get my lashes done and I get to like drive thirty minutes to it. It's just so it's fun. And I listened to a super soul podcast by Oprah and it was all about um, being happy with yourself, like just yourself and not like outside stuff, and so I don't know, I just was like, why are you laughing at me? Oh? I know it was good. It was like, you know, a lot of people can say something that if Oprah says it, I know, right, this is where they she gets. But hey, we'll take it out anyhow. So it's safe to say, Yes, there was no one in your bed anytime recently. No, Wow, Mark, what a great and just there we go, just there. I mean I could have been in someone else's bed. That was just come on, these softballs was a that was a softball toss? Um? No, right, that's the best kind of happiness. Yeah. And you know what's this is gonna sound so stupid, but I was reading Sharna Burgess would have whatever her I can never say her last name Burgess, Burgess, burs and Burgesses. Yeah, she posted this thing with her and and Brian and she goes, I was happy before you, but like now I'm even happier. And I was like, oh, like what a cool place like that would be to just be like happy and then someone just like amplifies your happiness. Because like I started thinking about that, I'm like, oh, you make me smile. It's like, no, I already smile, but like I'm smiling more. I don't know, I just thought there was like a cool like that just kind of hit me. It's so true, though, you don't want someone else to make you happy, right, I'm getting that. She's like, it's registering now. I mean, it makes me happier. But yeah, but I do have some options. We can discuss it at later point. Mark, Okay, good lovely. It would be a fun for the show. I don't know if this possible to be fun for the show if you just didn't do names. It was like person A and say like three things about them, person B three things about them, and then we can all decide. Well, we were writing a prosen cons list, we could just we could read some of those things. I got this, Mark, don't worry, I got it. We did a present cons list the other day. Um, but yeah, well that would be a lot of fun. I was thinking. I just texted Amy on the side. I was like, we need to get Patty staying around again because she's like a matchmaker girl, so she could give some tips. That would be fun, that would be really fun. And there are any non athletes among the options? Oh? I like that one? Normal? Yeah? Wow? Right? Are there any non um m hmmm are there any okay? Are there people that I never would have heard of? Yeah? Wow, yeah, see I'm moving on up. Mark, I like that. Yeah. Any other questions? Um, so many my mouth at the same time, Um, how many are we talking about? How many are I'm just you know, you guys all say date, yes, yes, don't commit, just date. I'm learning. I'm trying. I don't know how to do that, but I'm trying. Yeah. And that's always a gray area too, because because you've got to make that really clear to every that's that's where I don't that's what I don't want, that's what that's that's the only part that I'm like, I have to be careful on because I don't know how to date. My friends are always like date. I'm like, well, how do you talk to like multiple people? And it is kind of awkward to be like just f y, I dating lots of people. I don't know. I mean, I'm not dating off, but if you're dating, like, how do you I went on a date in l A, how do you have that conversation? Yeah? Yeah, um but yeah yeah, But I don't think until you have that conversation of like being exclusive or whatever, then then you don't have to say anything, right, I guess I don't a world. I don't know. Well, we'll do an episode on this because it's fascinating. Yeah, it seems like nowadays there's two levels. There's the exclusive conversation and then there's the boyfriend girlfriend conversation, which I've always thought was one conversation, but now apparently it's two. Yeah. I think it's too too. I mean, that's kind of what I had in my last situation. It was like from girlfriends, but it was like not seeing other people, like we're just letting you know, we're not. I told you that confused me to begin with, because I'm like, I don't like that. I don't either. It makes no sense to me because I'm like, wait a minute, so you we're not going to see the people, but yet you I'm not good enough to other people until you're like, Okay, now I really want to spend all my time with this one person. We're exclusive, but time out if I'm gonna sleep, like, if I'm going to sleep with someone, I'm not going to be sleeping with like multiple people. But then that's what that's basically what it is. That's the initial exclusive. It's to not sleep with other people. But then I don't like how it makes me feel because when that happened in the last situation, I was kind of like, oh, like, but I'm not like, but you don't get to be the boyfriend girlfriend if you're just sleeping with each other. You gotta wait for that. Yeah, I'm too old. This is why I wanted to stay married. This is why I wanted to not get divorced. Um, okay, so I so can we like bookmark this? I think Amy just came on, Amy, did you get my text about having Patty on? She's probably like, don't bring me on right now. I'm here. I'm reading it now. I'm just catching up, but I'm here because I think it'd be fun to just do like a whole like news because I'm like nude to this dating world. So I'm like, I feel like we need to have like an expert on, and then we need to do and then we need to have Mark on because Mark is like Coppa because he would have like nixed the last one and he tried, and I was like, no, we do have an expert coming on for you next week that I haven't told you about yet. Oh god, she's an expert in dating and relationships, but a certain area of the oh what do you mean the sc X part? Oh sex? Oh, I got that covered. That took you a minute. I think you're really gonna like her. She's pretty amazing. But yeah, we can just go back to elementary school with you for dating, Like, let's just go back and start with the experts teaching you from the very beginning because I need it. That would be very helpful because I'm I'm not doing You're not doing so bad. M not doing so great either, Um, so let's get I think we should get Patty on as an expert one time. But anyway, okay, cool, all right, before we start the show, add up, what you're paying for TV and streaming brutal. Right, Well, Filo gives me a totally better TV experience for just twenty a month. I asked my friends at Filo if I could offer you guys a special deal to try Filo, and they said, of course. So I got you off your first two months. Go to Filo dot tv slash Janna. That's Filo dot tv slash Janna Filo dot tv slash Janna. Um. So, I am really excited about today's podcast, but I have to feel like I have to walk kind of a fine line with her because, um, Claire is going to be the guest, and she was the bachelorette. Um what was two seasons ago, Claire Crowley. Um. Because I feel like this is gonna sound bad. I relate to her so much that I'm like, I don't want to be too hard on myself through my questions with her, because I don't want to sound like a hypocrite. Oh yeah, do you know what I mean? Marks Like, look at his face. That's the great thing about this podcast those even in the interviews, there's a subtext that may not be think, yeah, it's great, um, but she's been going through a lot. Obviously she just had a break up with Dale and we have become damn friends. So let's take a break and then let's get her on. Hi, bab, how are you? How am I? How? Well? First of all, how are you um? At this very moment, I'm okay, okay. I things kind of her up and down for me in just in general in my life, but right now, I mean sometimes it's a minute to minute, I don't know. Right now, I'm okay, and I feel like I'm okay because I'm sitting with a woman that understands kind of my life and we've had similar paths with a lot of things, and it's comforting. And that's that's the reason why I want to be able excutted to do this podcast is because if me and you understand each other, I know there's a million other women out there that understand us that maybe don't have like a me and you to talk to they but to listen to this, to to say like I understand you know. So I'm I'm comforted by doing this with somebody who understands it all. Yeah. And I love that you're you know, coming on because I think you know, we've never actually met in person. But I feel like we have such a connection through our history and our past and I am member. I I slid into your d M s and was like, I see you, and I just want you to know that. Like, because there's so much outside noise, there's so much um, there's so much just just there's just so much noise, and it's hard to sometimes. Um, Like people just read a headline. People just they see five minutes of something. They don't actually take the time to go, well, what did what has she been through? And what's her story? And you know she's human, how does she feel? And and I just I just know that. UM. What I what I know of you is that you love to love and like that is like my biggest motto. And it's like it's it's sad when like you have something, you have this desire to love and to be loved, and for me, like my experience is like when that fails, Like, that's hard. Yeah, it's absolutely hard. And I think that's UM. I think there's so much power to and sharing this kind of thing because it's with women like us who love to love and lead with our hearts. UM, it leaves you open to the vulnerability whether it's with your partner, whether it's with the world to see and to listening to watch, Like there is so much just power in that vulnerability. But it's hard. It's I think it's a lot easier to have your walls up and be guarded and just play cool and like it doesn't phase you, or you're good or you're happy. Um, it's a lot more difficult and but more real, I think to just be authentic and say like I'm not okay, and I'm this is what I'm going through, you know. And I think that's like such a beautiful thing because right now, like yeah, because it's like someone's like get over it. You know, you're divorced, like and it's like you don't understand that when you give your heart and you love so big that it's you got, you're not going to be okay the next day or six months later. And we all kind of process heartbreak in different ways. And for me, like you know, my experiences, I I I still to this day can't sit here and be like I'm the strongest I've ever been, because yeah, I'm a strong freaking woman, but like I still, like yesterday I had a breakdown and it was hard, and it's like and that's okay, Like and that's why I love that what you said is like that, you know, like right now, like you're okay, and like that does not make you weak, that just makes you human, that makes you have that's someone that you have a heart and you you're healing and that's a part of like the healing process and being broken at the same time, like some days you're just not going to be okay, and other days, like tomorrow, Claire, you might wake up and be like I am so freaking strong and I'm good and I'm happy, and the next day you might be devastated, like it's just and but I love that you're like, you know because kind of had a feeling you might be like, oh, I'm so strong and I'm so happy because it's like and that would be great too, But at the same time, it's like is that really real? Like I don't know, like I'm almost envious maybe a people that can just be like that, Well, here's what I have to say about that, because it, I think is maybe the easier thing to go to to say I'm strong, I'm happy, and they're like you said, there are days like that I think two things. I think you can it can coexist. I think you can be strong, you can be happy and still hurt from something that has happened to you and deeply affected by somebody you loved um or a breakup or a struggle that you've got going on in your life. Like it can coexist. I think there's that fine line, though, of the people that just say nope, nope, nope, I'm okay, I'm okay, I'm tough, everything is fine. It's that wall that's so transparent. I think when you see people being like that, and I try to share a lot of that on my social media of yes, I'm a strong woman. Yes I'm happy a lot of the time, and I'm healing and I will always continue to fight for myself. But sometimes that doesn't mean I'm always okay, Like I had a rough morning even this morning, you know, we were talking about it, and and things can pop up here and there and trigger it. But you can be strong while still owning your vulnerability and owning that things hurt it. It shows you have a heart. And I think when you show you have a heart that in itself innately is beautiful and a true strength and sometimes it just feels really damn good to cry too, like yes, like oh it's so true. My biggest, biggest thing I've always said that it is such a turn off for me is I don't want to be with somebody who's robotic. I don't want somebody to be I don't want to be with somebody who is cold and can just detach and be numb two feelings into love and things like that's aching to me. That's sad to me. Yeah, it's it's interesting because especially for like a guy. There was this one guy that I went out on a date with and he's like, I haven't cried and like ten years. And I was like, huh, that's not a yeah. And then I was like like what about like haven't you seen Marley and Me or like I don't know, but I was like I kind of like made a joke. But I was also like, right, the art of racing in the rain. Yeah, but I was like, but like what about like when you had had your last breakup or and and for some reason, like it was it it turned me off because it was it's like I I personally want someone that is um so connected to their emotions. I'm not saying like I want you to cry all the time, Like I think that's the opposite of it, is like I just want someone right that I had that has emotional connection and that you can get vulnerable and be you know, be authentic and not just I don't know, Like that's such an interesting it like really kind of stopped me in my tracks. Yeah, I think you're so right on that where it's like some people use it as a strength and I don't. I don't necessarily look at at not crying as a strength. I think all emotions and showing and having the diversity of really feeling emotions, especially if something impacted you, whether even if it's in a good way, to be moved by something is is so beautiful and so human of us. And I think to like my therapist she was saying, because it really rocked me when when that person was like, you know, get over it, and it's like I'm like the healing circle is so vicious and but also beautiful, but like again it's just you're just going to have those days where it's like it's it's hard. But I guess I'm curious because I've I've dealt with this in my past where I feel I feel angry, not angry, but just like it's not angry, it's not duped, it's just maybe and maybe it's all of those things. Maybe it's angry, maybe it's duped, Maybe it's disappointment, maybe it's it's it's all those things together. When it's like when you give something, because we have, we give so much that when we don't get that in return with our experiences, it's like, that's it's hurtful because it's like wait a minute, like was it not real for you? Or like like what was it? Like? You know what I mean, absolutely, it's I It's what I keep reminding myself of is you cannot expect, like we want somebody to love us, how hard we love them, and when it's not reciprocated or it's not done to that level or in that way, it's it's hard to process that, and it's it's hurtful, especially when um they're saying one thing and doing another. That especially stings extra because it's like how could you do that to what you love? It's it's hard to it's hard to comprehend things like that. Yeah, yeah, I mean I feel you. I mean I know we've all we've both also been in abusive relationships in our past and you know, verbal, mentally, all of it physically, and you wonder, You're like, how can you say you love me and then do this like it just it doesn't like I would never like. And yes, I can say, like I have said, I have been in the wrong at times, and I have said hurtful things and I can acknowledge and own that. But there's but there's there's remorse, there's empathy, there's compassion, there's um, there's apologies, you know, yeah, worse of course, and and owning owning the reality of it and saying I screwed up, or or owning your partner. I think is I think that in itself is a big part of it. I'm not expecting somebody to be perfect. I know I'm not perfect. I can get loud, I can get passionate, I can you know when I believe in something with all my heart, like you bet your ass, I am fighting for that. But there's a difference between I think, um, being passive with something or like owning your truth of it and owning your part in it, because that's what matters. It's not about being perfect. It's owning your part in in what makes or breaks things, you know, and not just the good but the bad too, you know, and recognizing that, yeah, there's something in that too where it's like I remember with past experiences. For me, it's like I almost like tell me because I'd rather know or before finding out, Like just like I just I want to know all the good, bad and ugly so that all of our craps out there and we can help each other with it too, because I'm like, I don't want to carry all the stuff that I have by myself, Like I need help carrying some of my stuff too. Yeah, that that's a huge thing too, unpacked because it takes a lot of trust. It takes a lot of trust to put that on some you. That that I think is my biggest thing. What I was looking for in my last relationship when I went on the Bachelorette was I want somebody I've been through, Like I'm a tough woman. I I have gotten through a lot of things, the majority things in my life by myself, and I wanted a man who can say, like, let me help you, let me at least I'm not looking for you to fix it. I'm just you just stand by me while I while I go through this, in process it and live it, you know, because we, like you said, we all have our stuff, and we all have our things we've gone through and whatever people want to call it baggage or life experiences or whatever. I don't expect you to fix it, but sit with me while I try to fix it, and while I try, while I heal, And I think there's things people can do to help it and help you heal, and there's things people can do to add to it and chip away at what's already broke in in a way. You know. Do you have any regrets at all about your journey and the Bachelor up? Um? I always feel like I do not want to have regrets and I didn't even know, to be honest, if I would have done things differently because I was doing the best I could at the time with the information that I had. And if my biggest regret is trusting the process, trusting a man, a man's words and who he showed me he was, I don't think that that's a regret. Like I I trusted somebody, I believe somebody that they were who that they said they were, or that they would hold up to the promises that they make when they get down on one knee, Like I don't know if that's a regret, you know, I would still I loved and have always had such a deep love for Dale, and that a doesn't go away overnight and be like I don't regret that, like I loved loving it. Yeah, yeah, I mean I feel that's my core two. With my ex, it's like I yeah, I mean tesday it's like hard, like with my therapist, I tell no today, I was like I have little moments where I'm like, I, you know, I still love him like he's he was, he's the father of my children, like I you know, but and it's it's hard when things when words and the vows and the promises aren't lived up to um. And that's where sometimes anger can come in. Any where you feel dooped door, you feel sad um. But you know, I, yeah, I look back to and it's like I don't regret and me I have I have regrets in that relationship, but I don't ever regret loving him because I think you see, for at least me, guy saw things of his of who he can who he can be you know, and maybe maybe that's my issue, Like I think I think I might love people too with the potential, not actually who they are, And that's maybe something where like as I move forward and like my journey of loving the next person, it's like I got to make sure that I'm like, is this am I actually falling for who they are? Or who I want them to be or who I hope they are? You know? But I think with at least men in my past, it's like they were showing me a version that they wanted to be too. They just weren't capable of being that version. Yeah. Yeah, that's a huge thing. And I think you and I are so similar, Janet, beyond similar with this because it's almost like you want to see the good and the best and that have hope for that, and I wonder, at least for me, it felt like I would always wonder is he doing that for me? Is he trying to see the best in me? And a lot of times I didn't I feel like that. It was like, how am I sitting here trying to fight so hard for this relationship and trying to see and trying to just embrace and really love him to my core? For everything that he is and and wanting you to receive that with open arms, when it's like it was always I felt kind of met with walls and a guardedness and a distrust and it's like, I don't know, it's so I want. I think we just love how we want to be loved, and you really, I guess ultimately can't expect you from them. Mm hmm. I wonder what you know? And this is against stuff that I'm unpacking with my therapist, but you know how how I don't continue because I think if I look back on all my past relationships, there's there's a thread through every single one of them and are very similar and um, but I think a lot of that is is a threat of what I believe in myself, what I think I deserve, what I think my worth is um and trying to realize, okay, like what what does Janna want? What does Janna actually deserve? And I don't know if you've done the same thing, but it's like they all their masts come off, come off, and even though we fall for this beautiful image and then it's like, oh wait a minute, we're almost like tricked or but then when you think about it, You're like, well, that's and then we stay because then we think that's what we deserve. And I mean that's just my like my own pattern. But moving forward, like, is there something where you're like, are you going to be more guarded or are you just going to be more Is it reserved? Is it guarded or are you just gonna be like you know what, I'm gonna kind of do the same thing and just and give all my love again. I don't ever want to be the person that's guarden. I I think that's a slippery slope and I don't I hey, I don't know if I'm capable of that and be I don't want I just don't want to be that person that is closed off because I know where my heart is. I know what I want, I know what I deserve. I know what I put into a relationship and how hard I love and I don't think that there's anything wrong with that. I think what I do need to work on is um taking a beat and really paying attention to people's actions and not just maybe completely trusting their word and being a little bit more um discerning, I guess in situations. But am I going to change the way I am because somebody has done me wrong or because I've gone through a difficult relationship. I'm not going to change who I am. The things I can change are growing in a positive way, But it has nothing to do with the way I love and how expansive my heart is and the love I give. I can definitely definitely work on stuff, though, I know. Yeah, just like I said, the discernment and waiting for somebody to show me by their actions, because I think that shows a lot. I think anybody can show a plane ticket to say I showed up, But it's what's inside, is the behind the closed doors and the real actions of were you there or did you show up for me? Authentically? I think that's what matters. Yeah, I mean, I hear you one th pent and what I took away from that part two is actions speak so much louder than words. And that's that's where I faulted in my past relationships, where it's like I always listened to words and the actions I just put blindfolds on. It's like all my friends are trying to be like take the blinders off, like you look at the actions, not the words, and like but the words, like the words like but he said, and you know, I like, look at this text message and I swear like Katherine and she was here, she'd be swatting my phone away like stop stop, but look at this, like what is the actions? And then I don't know if you do this. I'm sure because we're pretty much the same person. But I've been Yeah, I've I've been told a lot of times in relationships, and it really gets me down because, um, it makes me like semi emotional because I start to question, well, maybe because they would say, it's never enough. You always want this. It's like you always it's like I can never make you. It's like it's never enough. And I'm like, I don't ever feel like I'm asking for that much. I think I was just asking the wrong person to love me. I feel you to my core on that one, and I I mean, we are so like that. I I have thought and felt and been told the exact same things. And I think instead of telling me that I'm asking too much, like why are you giving too little? I shouldn't have to beg for the bare minimum. I shouldn't have to even I mean, there's communication, and then there's basic needs of a relationship, and instead of asking me to come down to your level and meet you on that level, why don't you rise up and be a better person and put in the effort to be a better person and to rise up to that Rising up is so much more positive and a deeper thing and a more valuable thing than saying you're asking too much. And like you said, maybe you're just asking the wrong person and they're not capable of it. So be it. You know, well, I think it's interesting too, because you know, sometimes like and if I wor to look at like my past, it's like I I've always seemed to go to the unavailable man or the man that really couldn't love me the way that I wanted to be loved. And I'm like I'm trying to like unpack that in therapy because it's like, why do I continue to go for that kind of guy? Because I'm never going to get my needs met, Like, and all I want is just someone to love me the way that I love others and like and I love big and I want to be held and I don't want to feel bad for like holding someone's hand or touching them or like telling them being like hold on hold hold on you got somebody got mad for you trying to hold their hand and wanting to touch them. It's too much like in I'll say this past a past relationship, it was verbatim that and I literally was like, I just he was like, why are you so angry? Why are you fighting? Why are you just picking a fighting? I'm like, do you realize what I'm fighting over? I'm fighting and yelling at you to hold me, to hug me right now, to give me comfort because I just want to love on you and I want you to love on me, Like That's what I'm fighting for. Is do you realize what you're saying? You know, right wouldn't be a fight to the right person. That should be like if somebody said that to me, I just want you to hold my hand. I just want you to like I would just become a puddle and I will give you ten times that all day. But it's the guys that we don't that we that we want that, don't you know? And I guess that's the thing though, is that love? Is that love? If you have to ask somebody? I think you know sure probably like in like a you know, people have to like work on it to make sure if that's because but for me that is just like my love language, like I just love. And you know, we had talked about this in my last on this UM show, like that it was very opposite for us. But it's hard. It's like I want someone to like hold my hand the way that I hold their hand and like not get like not feel bad about it or you know, um, and it's just But then I also think about, like, Okay, well what does that say about me or you or us that like we go for these type of men that you know can't give us that love? And then and then I don't know about you either, but like and then I'm the one still fighting for it even though I'm not getting my needs. Man, it's like wait a minute, like like where's the psychology and that where's the where's my childhood trauma? And that? You know? Yeah, And I think truthfully, it can come down to the simplest, most saddest thing is that maybe there is no psychology behind it, and maybe they just don't want to and it has nothing to do. Maybe they just don't want to and they are incapable of doing that. And I don't think that says anything about you to want to be held and hugged and love. That's like human nature one oh one connection, you know, it's more I would be asking them that thing, like what is going on with you that you're not allowing somebody to love you or somebody who wants to love you? And it's a beautiful thing, and like, uh I, I I'm with you on that, like I don't understand it. But also why are you Why are we questioning ourselves if we're asking too much for that, that's not a psychological trauma anything. The psychological trauma thing is asking ourselves these questions. We don't need to be asking ourselves these questions. That's a human need period. How do you go through and deal with um? The outside noise, the sources, the people, Like how do you how do you deal with that when when you know your heart in it? Um? Because I struggled like with that, like crazy, because I'm like, man, people just don't know and and and there's only so much that we can say. Yeah, I think it can get very messy and very itchy. And I always try to err on the side of taking the high road, even when there is a lot of things I could say and a lot of things that I wish people knew both sides, you know, because it's easy for a publicist or a source to put out a narrative of what they want their client or friend to look like it appeared to especially when your career is based and dreams are based on being in the public eye. But I know, I think, yeah, things are hurtful, and I'm human, so it does affect me. But I think more importantly, like a I'd rather take the high road and be um. It's very impersonal too for to be putting out statements and articles and this and that and your side of the story. I think you both know the truth. I know the truth. He knows the truth. You know you know the truth. You know what happens behind closed doors, and when you know the truth, and you know where your heart is, Like, I don't need a publicist speaking my side of the story. I don't care for my side of the story to be honest to even be out there, even if I have receipts and proof and everything I need to show up that I could do to really put it out there. I I think I think it just seems ikey, I think it seems ikey. When it's like sources say and a publicist says this, it's just why why not talk to the person directly? Yeah, yeah, yes, I hear you on that. Sometimes I have a tough time when there isn't like that closure either, like the same completely and that that's to be honest to where I'm at now too, is that I I was in the peak pain of my breakup. There was a lot on my plate, like I we've talked about before, Like I was healing from um my excellent surgery. Still that takes a long time and is actually a very emotional recovery, to be honest, it's not even the physical, but it's an emotional recovery. Um. But in also going through stuff with my mom right now, still ongoing stuff with my mom, and in I mean it all kind of came crashing down at once for me. But it's just a lot. It's a lot, I think too. It's um when you don't have that closure, not saying that's exactly what you were saying, but like for for me, it's like if you don't have that, for me, it's like the accept it's the empathy and the apology that like I and and just like that conversation where it's just you can kind of close that door. You can have compassion, empathy, apologies, and and to have that closure so that way your heart can heal truly, because I think when you don't have that, I struggle with healing when those pieces are still missing for me. Yeah, And I think it's deeply it's painful when you feel like somebody who you love deeply doesn't even have enough respect to you to sit down and have a very vulnerable conversation and owning your stuff in it on both sides, you know, and just having a conversation. Um, It's it's hurtful because it's like you think that little of me, but yet you supposedly loved me, Like, yeah, you think I don't know, I guess sometimes. So that helps on the on the flip side though, where it's like, oh wow, that shows who they are. Yeah, And maybe that is the closure of it is you don't care enough to care, so that alone should be the closure we want to. Like And I told you, Claire the other day when we were talking, I was like, Claire, we're going to home depot, Like my therapist said, You're going to home depot. You're asking for milky and gonna get milk at home. Deepot, stop stop asking for it. You're not gonna get it. You're not going to get it. That's the perfect analogy. And it's probably it's just reassuring. I think when they when there's not even the level of like a conversation floor closure, that a is closure in itself. But it's like, but it's still hurtful, you know. That's the part where it's like where it's still hurtful because it's like because of the love that we gave. Yeah, of course, and it just shows your humanness and it shows how much you're willing to fight and put into it. And just because they don't I want to give you that same level of respect or or I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. Sometimes too, maybe maybe that is the closure, is knowing that they can't give you that it's just unfair. I think that's like where I can go. I can get a little on the angry side. I'm like, it's just unfair because like I can't imagine doing that to someone, you know, and not giving them that piece of the apology or that you know, the empathy and or hearing their side, or sitting down and having that respect or saying sorry, and because again, like we're you and I are both have our crazies in us. You know, we've both you know, and I'm sure you know, but I also know we we can sit in it even though it's hard. It's very hard for women to apologize, but I will do it, of course. Of course it's um. I was talking to my therapist about it and ending the end and the device of a relationship is very much equivalent to I mean, you're losing somebody. It's a loss of somebody in your life that you loved, and it's a deep, deep grieving process. And I think with all the steps, just like if somebody were to that you love were to pass away, when you lose somebody in a relationship, it's almost harder because it's like there's still alive and you know if they wanted to reach out, they could, but they just don't. And I don't know, it's you still have to go through all the steps of just like losing somebody, just like losing a parent or if somebody you love, Like so, there's going to be the phase I think of anger. I mean I felt that I've absolutely felt that like, how could you, how could you do this to somebody who just has such a pure, deep love for you. I don't understand it. And and it's for me, it's more of like, yeah, I've only felt the anger and and then the next day it'll be something, and then then I might come back and you know, it's just that like amazing wheel. But it's like I wonder, oh, you know, it's crazy about the loss thing. This isn'ta sound absolutely crazy, And in the moment, I was like, you know, it felt weird. But my my therapist literally was like, we're black. And I went to the therapy session and she goes, we're having a funeral for your for your marriage, and I just was like I just, I mean, I wept. I wrote a thing. I wrote a eulogy, like I mean, I like and it was like, you know, saying that sounds so weird, but it was something where it's like, it is a loss. It's a death, like it is whether it's a relationship or whatever, Like when you lose something, it is a death. Yeah, And it's the deep pain of this is the one that gets me. It's like, how do you say goodbye to somebody you never wanted to walk away from, like I would have never walked. It was the opposite, Like you're having to say goodbye to somebody you don't want to be saying goodbye to, or you have to walk away from somebody you don't want to walk away from. It's hard, it's painful. Yeah, I feel that to my um, to my core. Actually was I wrote that lyric in a song. I was like, I would have fought for you forever. I would have, you know, and I would have And I almost stayed the last time, even with the last discovery, like I would have I would have fought forever. And that's very hard when you have to walk away from something that you don't want to and that is that is m so painful, but it also takes so much strength because you realize that you deserve better. Yeah, that's that's I think the the I don't know if the right word is the Jeff juxtaposition of being able to not wanting somebody to walk away, but gladly hope holding the door for them because they want to walk away. I will never I'll never do that again. If you want to walk away from me, I'm not like I'll fight to the death to do what it takes to have a successful, driving, great relationship. And what a beautiful thing because so many people don't want to fight through like the hard times, you know, and they just give up so easy, like I can't do this as too much. It's like that is a beautiful freaking quality to have to be like, no, like let's and now it doesn't have to be like so hard. But it's also like to have that energy and like to be like, let's we can do this. But having said that, though, like I will say, like in my past relationships, I fought for the people that will not fight for themselves. Yeah, so we're just beating our heads. At least from my experience, like I was, I it would have never like come to fruition, like and that's the hardest part when you realize that they will not fight for themselves, they will not fight with me, so I'm the only person and you realize, well, I I can't I can't fight alone. And then you just are just like you're just so tired, you know. Yeah, it's exhausting to keep putting out energy and giving energy and feeding energy to somebody who's not giving you that in return, like on some level, we need all the buckets to be refilled and it's hard. It it kind of makes you become somebody who you're not. And I know, for me personally, like I've always had my friends, my family and my clients everybody, like I love being alike to them. I love I've always been told they're like, Claire, you have a sparkle to you. And I love that. I love that. I love life like I love love. I love people like I love really hard, and I think it's a beautiful thing. But when you're giving and giving and giving, it takes away that light and it takes away that sparkle and you become depleted. And I think on some level two you become somebody who you're not, maybe like a tell of who you are, and it's it's sad when that's not given back to you. There's no reciprocity with that. Yeah, And I'll say, like, I mean, you know, I'm gosh, like six seven months like removed, but and I just I'm like, you know, getting emotional just because like you think about the shell, like because truly, like when you're in that situation, you're fighting so hard and the person stop fighting for themselves, like you become, like you said, a shell of yourself. But I will. The tears almost come from a place of like, I'm so excited for you to get your sparkle back because there's such a weight and like like I feel like my shell has been filled with me, like I'm and I'm not and I'm not like I'm who raw, like I'm so strong, like I have my day is still I'm still you know, you know, I'm a little terrified of the holidays coming up and certain you know, moments, But at the same time, like I like how I feel. I feel lighter, and like I'm excited for you to get to that place too, where you're like you get like every day you're going to get your sparkle back. How does how do you what is like? How do you heal you right now? What does your journey look like? Are you just trying to stay positive surrounding yourself with friends with give me some tips because I'm on the journey with you, girl, I will absolutely give you some tips because I know that I've been through like we have been through, like the depths of things and the depths just as much as hard as we love. I think we feel the pain of the pain right to the depths. And the biggest thing I can say, at least for myself, what I've I was saying this to somebody a couple of weeks oh, is that I am tired of being called resilient and having to be called resilient, having to be called strong, hey, having to be called strong, and having to be strong for these things. And I think the best thing we can do is really focus on our comeback being like our biggest strength, you know that. That's what I was talking to somebody about a couple of weeks ago, was like, unfortunately, I've had to have a strong comeback game and it's my biggest flex is my comeback game. And unfortunately, the the things that have been the most challenging in my life are what propelled me to be the strongest woman that I am. That's where I dig deep, and it hurts and it's painful to go through those things, but that's where I source my strength. Is like, look what I've been through and overcoming that to know that I'm gonna just be even stronger and looking at it as a superpower that like I refuse to give up on myself because I know my worth and I know what I bring to the table. I know what you bring to the table and the type of woman that you are. Um, I can just tell by how you talk about love. And if we're anything so like we say we are, it's like, that's that is huge. So the baby steps, the one ft in front of the other, the calling a friend, the brushing your teeth, the going on a walk around the treadmill, doing those things, all the little steps equal with the big steps. And whilst we're doing that, I think owning the part of the process that we're going through, because like I said, it's easier to skip to I'm fine, I'm cool, I'm strong, I'm tough. Yeah, it's not that's not real strength right there. Yeah yeah, yeah, it's not. Yeah. And and I just I really just appreciate you saying that because it's, um, like, I'm excited to watch you walk on that journey now, you know. And I think it's also okay to say in those days, you know, even when you are super strong six months a year from now, still okay not to be okay in certain moments. And um, and I think that's just like the beauty in it, I think, or we're like I might struggle and we'll have to get better at it too. Is I hold on to the disappointment of what it could have been and the words of what it was promised. And so that's for me where I like, that's the piece of that I have to shed in a way, because that's that's going to hold back my healing from the what if game and the everything else because it's like it is what it is now and now oh it's like okay, like it hurts and it sucks, but like it's time to focus on me and my healing and um and you know, boundaries for next time and and it's just all those things because I think it's um yeah again, I just I think it's really great that that you're being authentic and you know you're saying like, look, it's I'm not okay, but I will be okay. And I think that's a really strong statement. Well, thank you, and it's it's the truth. And I know I know you feel that to your core as well, that it's not linear healing and overcoming things, especially when you go through really challenging things and whether it being a relationship or just things in life, like, um, it's not linear, and owning the pain and the hurt that it caused. That that innately, I think creates healing in itself. And do you ever read Burnet Brown Books a fast Art so much? And it's it's there really is power in vulnerability. And I think when when people put up these walls and it looks even on social media, it can look a certain way, but I think that's just um, there's the strength in doing the work and getting in the nitty gritty and really feeling the fields of when you're not okay and knowing that that in itself is okay to not feel okay for sure. And I got this quote. The ironic thing is it sounds like one Pablo, but I think it's a young Publo. But's like it's like I just like tied those two together. So sorry, it is actually a quote from your ex boyfriend. Let me quote that. It's not in though it's like this amazing that's freakingular. It's now He's like, it's this amazing, um poet. But I saw it today and I knew that I was talking to and it's um it says they asked her, how do you deal with heartbreak, and she answered, be intentional with your time, use it to heal, and use it to see your wholeness. Listen to your needs and truth. Use boundaries to start fresh. Let go of the tension you have been carrying, and fill yourself with the love you have always wanted. Heartbreak does not need to be a sad ending. Let this be an era of remarkable growth. And I think that's where we are. You know, this is a growth and we're planning a beautiful freaking seed and it's going to grow and we're going to be better for it. It's so true. And I think I love when you post quotes Grand Story. I absolutely I'm such a sucker for quotes because it's so I think it's the same thing we're doing here. Like whether it's a quote or a podcast, listening to a podcast, or it's it's a connection that you can read that or hear that and go like yeah, I feel that again that I think that creates healing and allows us to really, like like that said, like focus on our own heart and that that all the love that we put out there, like we deserve to put that towards ourselves as well. Oh, I love it well, Claire, I'm I'm excited to you know, just see your your you know your your journey with it and being authentic and thank you for for just saying sound okay and it's okay to not be okay. So I think that's just the big takeaway. And um, and we're we will be stronger and you will get stronger. And every day is a new day to you know, to not put armor on, but to to still be open. And I think it's a beautiful thing. I think it's beautiful. And let's reconvene in a few months and ye because I guarantee, I guarantee I'll be in a different place and uh, it's going to be beautiful, like there's only good things to come. Absolutely, And I love you and I will call you after right after this, okay, all right, by honey, see you. Yeah. She's my best friend. Wow, she's so sweet, adorable. I love her. I feel like people didn't really get the chance to get to know her because of how things are in her season and I get like she is like very like, but I just love like, I just love someone else that just loves to love, love to love, Mark, would you make them I thought she was awesome. I thought she's always great. We have her on our show. She's always a welcome gift. Yeah, very real. Who who's ready to talk dating? Next week? So? Um, come up with three candidates? Three? What we got this? We got this? Don't you're wearing? I'll give you a four, and I'll ask the questions, and then we will decide as a podcast which direction we want to point ourselves. Okay, it's gonna be so fine. Stay tuned for next week. Bye,