Find down Michael and I'm Farm Radio Podcast. Alright, guys, happy Monday. It's actually Monday today. It is actually Monday today. Um, we've got the beautiful Sarah Gretzky on with us. My friend, Hi, are you in l A right now? Or where are you at? I'm in l A. Yeah, we're still here, still there. Um. How is ties thirtieth birthday? I mean, as good as it could be? Yeah, where'd you guys go? We just went out to his parents house and I just tried to like surprise him as best I could with cake, cookies and like like here's a bunch of balloons and the word surprise, surprise. I'm like, I love birthdays, So I tried, But I think everyone is kind of like, Okay, this year's a wash. Next year, everyone's birthdays are going to be like it. There's gonna be high expectations for across the board. True. Um, okay, So I'm sorry about um our Monday Morning listeners who like to listen first thing in the morning. Um. We held this or we were recording today for a few reasons. One we want to keep it topical with everything going on with Jason, and two we have a amazing couple coming on. Um they're huge and uh Housewives, if any Housewives fans are out there, which is another reason why our amazing correspondent Sarah Gretzky is going to be on the show with us today. UM. So so yeah, so we're we're really excited. But just for those of you that don't really know what's going on, I mean, I feel like silly to make it be like this dramatic thing, but I'm just Jason is in a sleep regression and I'm having just a really really really hard time, and you know, one person saying this and the other person says this, and then it's like it all depends on the kid. And so we're gonna have two specialists come on too, and they're they're very they're different to one is saying do this and want to sing the other, which is honestly further it's making me more confused. But I know at the end of the day, you know, maybe the end of this podcast will figure out what's best for us, um from the information that's given. And Sarah, I know, um, you know, you you're on your journey right now with trying to have a kid, So take some notes because both of these UM sleep experts are amazing. UM, so yeah, I just what are you what are you thinking? Beb. I mean it's I'm like literally looking sorry at the monitor, just like please please. Yeah, it's tough, and it is. It has been exhausting because you want you just feel bad for we just feel bad for Jay's and with the specialist that we have come on, it's like we're going to take a little bit from both of them because ultimately, there's no perfect right way to do things. It all depends on your kid, and every kid is different. So I'm excited to get these ladies on and talk to him about it. And I'm just looking at the monitor right now, and he just threw his Levy and Webby out again, and it just breaks my heart because that's like the thing that soothes him. So it just I'm like, I want to go back and give it to him. But the lady that we're about to introduce, um, she's in the waiting room right now, so let's uh, let's bring her on, all right, So we have the wonderful Elena McGain. Is that did I say that? Correct? Yeah? Atlanta, Atlanta, I'm so sorry, Atlanta McGain it's all right. Janna gets that too. She gets Jina. So I have been talking to her for for quite a while, um since basically Jason was a baby, right yeah, and already nineteen months. I know it's insane, and he'll be he'll be twenty months in like to like two weeks. But so I'm and by the way, everyone needs to go on her Instagram. It's good Night's Sleep site dot com. Um, that's her website, and it's just good Night's Sleep for Instagram, right, g N sleep site. Okay, So I'm having I'm like, I'm having just really bad anxiety around us. And obviously I'm so embarrassed by the thing that I posted yesterday. But at the same time I was legit. Mike was texting me. He's like, where are you out? And I'm like, I'm bawling in the other room and I'm having a panic attack. And you know, Jace right now was fighting his nap and he threw all of his lovees and bubbies out and Mike and I was afraid he had pooped. So I said, you know, He's like, well do I go in there? And I'm like, I don't know the right answer, but he did go in there too because he did poop and so he changed his diaper. But now again he, Mike and him were throwing back the loving bubby. I couldn't even get him to keep it in the crib long enough to get out of the room. He's like, this is fun. Yeah, let's play a game. So long story short, you know, he had it for a second and now he's I'm watching him in the monitor and it's he's trying to reach for it, and I'm my heart is breaking, like I want to go back in and give it to him, but you're not letting me. I'm not I'm not letting you. And here's the deal. I mean your post yesterday. Honestly I wanted to like fall through my phone and on you because I know, like it's and this is exactly what I said to you. It's so easy for me to just say, Janet, don't go in the room, but you're the one that has to do it. And it's hard, especially when they're that age nineteen months and now he can talk and he can use more words, and it's it just pulls at those hard strings. But he's playing a game right now. And there's a reason we know what's going on with him. I mean, a let's look at where we are in the world right now. You're not alone in sleep struggles that are popping up all of a sudden because he was a great super he was taking amazing naps. He was sleeping really well. We know that he can do it. But you know, routines have been more relaxed in all house schools, just given the fact that we're all home and there isn't a whole lot of routines going on, coupled with the fact that he just came off a vacation, so routines were probably more relaxed than it's normal to be thinking to be seeing what we're seeing happening with him. Um. And then given his age, you know, we talked a little bit about the eighteen month progression. You know, anywhere between eighteen to twenty months. That doesn't mean it can't happen before e two months, that doesn't mean it can happen maybe twenty three months. But a lot of it is behavioral. Yes, there's teething issues, Um, yes, there is. He's learning so much, there's a new develop until milestones that he's hitting that can be playing a role in it, Um, But a lot of it is trying to take that control. And that's what he's doing with throwing out the levees and you guys are throwing it back and he keeps throwing it back. It's like a game for him. So if we keep kind of giving him essentially what he wants by giving him the lovey, he has to learn that there's consequences to his actions and when he throws it out, if we keep giving it back, well why would he Why would he stop or why would he not stop doing what he's doing. So it's important. I know it's hard, but it's important for him to understand that if he throws it out, he throws it out, he doesn't get it for the rest of the nap or the rest of the night. And yes, it's it's what I said to Yes, it's gonna be harder on you than it is on him. And I know that's hard to see when you're in it, but that is the case. How does that feel, honey, Um, I'm just I just feel like a bad mom. Like even like last night and I was reading messages and it's like going and hug your baby and I'm like, oh my God, I'm the worst mom ever for like not going in and like letting him cry it out, and like I don't know if it has something to do with like that he was in my body and I helped create him, but it's like he's like my person and he's like bawling and screaming our names, and I'm like I want to like go hold him and like rock him to sleep, but I know that, like you know, and and do the like come in and come out, but like I know that's not gonna work for him. Like he he was fine a week ago, and it was because we cuddled him in the bed, you know, because he wouldn't sleep his naps when we went up north, and like so we made those little mistakes just because I didn't think it would like totally screw him up. And now I just feel like a terrible mom because I'm like he's like yesterday when he was up at four where am and didn't go to sleep, didn't take a nap, I was swinging him on the swing and he was falling asleep and like the dudes exhausted, and then like he cried another two hours in the crib yesterday before we fell asleep. And that's when I just had like my breaking point where I'm just like, I feel awful and I'm like I just need to like, yeah, go ahead, sorry, no, it's listen and I get it. And I know you feel awful, and I know you feel like an awful mom, but you're not. I mean, we know this kid is loved seven. He knows that he's loved seven, um, And the most important part is that we know he's capable. And that's what I try and explain to parents is, you know, often when we hear the term self soothing, I think we have to kind of almost forget that term and instead we have to teach for kids that they're capable of doing it, and not just teach them so that they understand that they're capable, but also so that they know that you guys think he's capable of doing it. So listen. At the end of the day, I will never tell a parent to not go in a room and hold and cuttle their kid and sleep training. This isn't certainly what we're doing with Jays because we've been through the sleep training period. We know that he has that skill in place. Is just we're just kind of brushing off the cobwebs a little bit. Um. You know the fact that that we know that he can do it, we have to just keep allowing him to practice it and also just keep showing him that you guys know that he's getable of doing it and he needs to see that. So if you're going in and helping him do it, or you're going in and giving him back the lovey, or or responding to him in a way that he wants you to respond to him, yes, he's happy because he's getting the response that he wants and in a way also, it's also kind of showing him that, um that he needs that you think he needs his help, that you sorry, I'm saying this wrong, that you think that he thinks that you need to help him do it. But am I explaining this right? I'm like all over the place, But you know what I'm trying to say. Yeah, so listen, I know it's hard, and I know you fee look an awful mom, but you know you're not an awful mom, and you have a supportive hobby which helps you know. It's an important that you guys work as a team and that you guys are insistent with however, you're responding to him, and you've got to be especially when we're dealing with toddlers and that's the stage that he's in. It's so important to be consistent on the follow three because if we're all over the place, he's going to be just as confused in in what the expectations are. Alana, your mother of three, did you when you were doing going through all of this with your three kids, did you notice much of a difference like kid by kid or is kind of your belief system? Is it fairly universal across the board? And I love that you that you asked me that question. So I do have three kids. I have two daughters and a son. My youngest are twins boy girl twins UM and every kid is different. I'm actually gonna do a post about this UM specific topic on my Instagram and in a few days. But we can't expect all of our kids to respond the same way. So how did Julie responded to sleep training might not be the same as Jay's. And I even said to you when we were talking about the eighteen regression, I almost didn't believe it because my two daughters never went through it until my son UM and not to say that more boys go through the eighteen month and girls, because I don't have the data to prove that. Um, But he went through the exact same thing at around eighteen nineteen months. You know, just and my kids are good sleepers. I always say, would be really weird if I heard good sleepers given what I do. Um. But you know, all of a sudden in this awesome sleeper, just the same thing would start screaming, crying at three or four o'clock in the morning, started knap strikes for no other reason than what I believe to be behavioral. So it was just putting a plan in place that we are consistent with. So every child is different. Um, the sleep plan you put together for each child may be different. The most important thing and the only thing that really is the same as the consistency and follow through. Is it Is it different for like or do you think like? Okay? So if someone else were to say no, you should go in at the five mark, the fifteen mark, the thirty mark, and then in an hour take him out like is that is it? Does certain sleep training methods work for different kids? Absolutely? Yes, um, And that's what we do at GOOD I mean mostly at night, UM, when we're talking about like an interval check or a more gradual check where the parents are in the room, or a more direct approach where we're talking about extinction. UM. It really depends on the personality and the temperament of the child when we're dealing with the situation like we are with Jas though, the fact that we know that he can do it because he has been doing it, it's not necessarily what method do we choose now. We just have to kind of allow him to get back on track, which means you guys have to get back on track. So it's a little bit of a different situation than if we were starting fresh um and doing you know, complete sleep training. But absolutely the method that anyone who's listening, if you're thinking of choosing a method of sleep training, you have to think what method would work best for your child. But at the end of the day, you also have to choose the method that works best for you as a parent and you as the team, because you have to be comfortable with whatever method you're using, or else you're not going to be consistent with it and then you're not going to be successful. I mean, I want the every kid sleep in my bed method, but Michael won't let me down on that. Early on, Sarah, would you would you let the baby sleep in the room or would you and Ty be like no in our room or like when they cry like okay, so like a lot of um like my friend Kristen like the babies sleep in their bed. I mean, from what I've seen with my older sisters, no, I don't want them sleeping in my bed. But I'm a sleeper, so this is something Ty and I are going to have to adjust to because we can both sleep through anything, and we can sleep for a long time. So like we're going to have to adjust big time. He's gonna want them in the bed. I just and and I know it's like the worst thing to do, right well, I mean, here's the thing, as as a sleep professional, any choice that a parent makes is the choice that the parent makes. So I don't want say you know it's wrong or it's a bad even I know you had said you know what we did on vacation, I did bad things. I don't want anyone to take that away. But you have to do what works for you. But as a sleep professional, I can't talk about and I know You've had this conversation a few times, is I can't talk about I always have talked about safe sleep, so you know, I have to make sure that the baby or the child is sleeping in the safest environment. So when we're talking about, you know, room sharing versus bed sharing, I'm always always UM talking more about room sharing. So baby can sleep in your room, UM, in their own separate, safe environment, UM. But still room sharing. You can do that until whenever you want to do that, UM. But when we're talking about getting baby into bed with you, that's when things can potentially become unsafe. I think where I'm really upset is when when we were in Michigan and the RV, he was scared, like because we weren't there and it was something different in out of sorts, and so that's I now I feel like he's scared again. Is that like, do they even know what's scared is at that age? Yeah? Absolutely. I mean at the age that he's at, he he understands things that make him feel uncomfortable or things that per perhaps um, promote fear UM. But I think because he's in his normal safe environment, he knows that you guys are there. It's not to say that he doesn't have any fears, and you can address those fears. I mean if you feel like it's something that he's you know, if you feel that your child has a nightmare or is perhaps feeling scared, you can absolutely comfort that child in that situation. But if you see where it's happening every single night, um, and it's going on weeks on end, then we have to look at Okay, what else is going on? Um? Is it? Now? Are we dealing with a behavioral aspect to it as well? Where he's understanding that, Um, you know what he the actions that he does, uh, provides a reaction from you guys, and the reaction that he wants is that you guys come in his room and hang a little bit. How long is this gonna last for? Because I don't know if I can handle this anxiety? I know, and I wish I had an answer. Unfortunately, every kid is different, like I was, you know staying before. Every child is different. Um, it could take Like I said, it's not an overnight thing. It could take a week. It could take a little bit longer, but it's gonna take longer if there's a lot of back and forth and how you guys are responding to us. Well, I definitely agree with what you're saying earlier, where it's really ultimately more difficult on us than it is for him. Yeah, And I was just telling some friends of ours we saw the other day they are about to have a baby. I'm like, once they the whole sleeping is like the game changer, you know. Jane and I've been fortunate where I've been following Jane's lead with both our kids, and Jane has been a heck of a sleep trainer and I just kind of fallen along and I just fall in line with Janna where we've been on the same page with that. But it's because we've we've been so spoiled with Jay's being such a good sleeper and such a good nappers, Like as soon as he's not, it feels like the worst thing ever. And also with with Jolie, we were traveling all over the country constantly, so Jolie would sleep on busses and packing plays and hotels and she was just used to that. I mean, we had her on a bus at how many months six weeks, right, yeah, how many weeks? So you know, now it's like anytime we travel with Jay's it throws a wrench in it because he's just not used to it. So it's just there's different lifestyle changes too that we've had to you know, become accustomed to. And it's just like once they stopped sleeping a little bit, just it really messes us up. Well. And when we were having the conversation too, I'm like, you know, remember how at the very beginning, like he wasn't a napper like he was, he always fought that first nap. Yeah, and so remember that. It's like, well, I God, I don't want to stop a nap, but like, does he really need this nap? He does? Yes, and I And that's what I don't want you taking away from this is that, you know, Okay, he could be done for nats, he's still little to drop that nap entirely. And I with I'm gonna say ninety nine point nine percent confidence because I never say a hundred percent confidence. What we're seeing now is not because he doesn't need to sleep. I mean, I saw that video yesterday, but you guys posted and those retired little eyes on that little guy, so um, he's so cute. So you know, a lot of what we're seeing with naptime yesterday, and I think even going into bedtime because he didn't have that nap, a lot of it was overtired nous. But you know, just like when he was little, when we first started working together, I always say, it's almost like we have to push them into an overtired state to get them out of that overtired state, because it's really important to be consistent with what time we're putting it down at, with how we're handling those short wakings or those short naps, how we're handling that those bedtime battles, and he will pull out of this. He was pulling those three hour naps before this, you know, like he still needs to sleep. It's it's it would it would do more harm than good to to cut his naps at this point. Okay, well, I'm going to text you later because I need to see what time since I know he's not gonna natas he's reaching for his wabby like he looks like he's in just get it closer. Um, I mean, he'll he'll understand that by doing that, you know, he's not going to be getting his webby. And then we'll talk about his little webby and well maybe we're going to get rid of that. I'm not ready. All right, Well i'll text you later because I'm I need to see about nighttime. What time I've to put them down? So thank you so much, everybody. Okay, plug yourself right now. Girlfriend. Uh, thanks for having me on. You guys can go to good Night Sleep site dot com. You can follow me on Instagram, g N Sleep site, and I also have my podcast where I talk obviously all about sleep and it's called This Girl Loves Sleep. Love you, Thank you so much, love me too, Thanks guys for having me on. All right, Bye, Sarah, are you just like overwhelmed? You get all that? I just like don't understand and I hate saying that, but I'm like that gives me anxiety. Oh yeah, I don't know if you were crying because you felt bad for him, but I think I would be crying because I'm tired. It was a mixture of both. Was yesterday she was crying because she was just tired, but because I felt when I'm tired, yeah, I will cry if I'm tired. That just seems like a lot. I mean, look at him, he's he's no joke. Well he's not anymore. But he's always standing up still screaming. He's trying to get just like I and I know there's probably moms on here, just like there are moms on the Instagram sayingly just go in and cuddle him, but I don't know how much reverse whatever. So that's in my opinion, Well it can be so because for example, when we were up north, Mike started, um, soothing him because he was only sleeping thirty minutes because he's out of his element and whatever. So Mike started rubbing his butt to sleep. So then he got used to us rubbing his butt to sleep. We're putting him to sleep, and we've never done that before. He'd always just go in the crib and fall asleep by himself. How do you just not like sleep, close your eyes and go to sleep. Poor poor you too, poor all of you. So it's just but we have another sleep consultant that's going to come on later this episode who's different, um than Alana who's been helping us with Jayce. So it's you know, because every kid is different, so um, it's going to be interesting. And then by the end of it, Mike, we need to decide which one we're doing that sound good? All right? All right, before we get our next next guests on, let's take a break, all right, So to continue on the saga of jays Um, everyone was dm ng me like crazy, you have to ask taking care of babies. You have to talk to her d m R D m her. So last I d m her and then I spoke to one of her consultants and I was so overtired yesterday and I was bawling my eyes out. I don't think the call went too good. But now we have the one and only on the line with us right now. Hey girl, Hi, I'm Carat's so nice to meet you. Guys, n I'm Janna. This is my husband Michael, and then Sarah, who's our our resident guest on here. Girlfriend, I know, and talk to my wife off the lead. It's gonna be okay, honey, you and I today, I'm gonna help you. Okay, I'm gonna help you. This is hard, but I want you to know there's light at the end of this tunnel. Okay. I'm gonna give you lots of guidance, and when you and I are done today, you're going to feel like, Okay, I got this ready. Yeah, Because yesterday. I mean, I loved her and she was amazing, but I was like, I don't got it, and I just kept crying and I was just like, I'm so sorry. I'm just I was like, I think I'm just really tired. When you're losted and at the end of your row, it's like I have nowhere to turn, right. I think the hard part is too because you know, I've really studied your page and I've looked at it and you know how you train your you know, sleep train your babies, and um, I think the hard part for me and what I kind of um not butted heads on, but I had a hard time with it is like to re sleep train. I'm like, but he's already sleep trained, Like this is he just formed like a new habit that like we have to break. So I'm like, and so I think I had that was like what was hard for me because I'm like, wait now i feel like I'm going backwards. Oh god, now I'm having a panic attack. And I just was like it was so much, So let's let's talk through that. Chase is a good sleeper, right, you have created a great little sleeper, so that foundation is there he can put himself to sleep. He can cycle through sleep cycles. That's huge, right, that foundation that he has huge. I know you're thinking right now it doesn't feel like that foundation is there, but it's still in there. Okay, Now, what was the first thing when you DM me before I gave you any advice? What was the first thing I said to do? Do you remember drink a glass of wine? I don't remember. When a good little sleeper suddenly isn't, my brain now, keep in mind I'm a nurse, my brain immediately goes to is there a physical problem? Infection? Yeah, So anytime we have a good little sleeper who suddenly isn't, I want to say, Okay, let's rule out an ear infection, let's rule out pain. And so yesterday you took him in, right, how did doctor look? He's healthy, completely fine. Okay, that's that's good. Okay, so nothing's hurting him. That's good to know. Seething, let's talk about that. Lots of parents think, oh, well, teething like this is going to disrupt sleep for the next six months. Right, let's talk about that. What have you do? You do you see any teeth or do he's got moeller? So all four molars are like super engorged in large and the top his top left was the top left or top right is I can feel the like a little uh hard rough part of it. Yeah, okay, okay, so moellers can be they can hurt, right. Um Typically when teeth breakthrough, twenty four to seventy two hours of discomfort. Most of the time for good little sleepers, it doesn't disrupt their sleep. It does for some, it does for some. We want to account for that, Like, have you been giving them tailen al motron Yeah, every it's every three hours, right, well, motrin or ibprofen is every six every but but can you go like ibyprofen three then three the mo thailand, All okay, you're still it's still six between. Oh my god, I don't no, don't blame yourself there. We've been doing that, right, yes, right, we've been doing that. Yeah, okay, so really quickly. This isn't medical advice, but this is like just a token of information for you. Motron ibprofen that is um an anti inflammatory, and so the pain of tving comes from inflammation. So I'm a big fan of motrin. I'd be proken babies can't have it. Until they're six months old. Jason's over that, so he can definitely have it, but give it before bedtime, and then if you want six hours later, you can sneak in there. Let's say you give it a seven ish or six thirty before bed, sneaking there around one one, six hours later, pick him up, give it to him laying back down. I know that sounds scary, but that keeps the inflammation. So if you're seeing a wake up, let's say it three or four or five in the morning, and you're like, oh my gosh, I think it's teething, well that medication has already begun working. Obviously, follow the advice of your doctor all of that, but we just want to rule out. Okay, is it pain. I don't think that's what this is for Jason. Can I tell you what I think it is? Go for it, Okay. Any time little ones have big developmental strides, crawling, walking, those sort of things that sleep can be impacted. Now, it can also be mental things, mental strides that are taking place in your baby's brain. What's happening inside his brain right now, well, sometime between the fourteen month mark and the twenty month mark is what we call the eighteen months sleep progression. Why is that the regression, Because it's a huge developmental progression. That means he is learning something huge. You know what he's learning right now, there's a Mommy doesn't come get him and throw out of the car. We're going to talk about that too. He's learning I make a difference in the world. I impact others. What I do, what I say, My actions influence others. That's a pretty good lesson to learn in life, right, But you've you've probably seen it, Mike, he throws a ball, you throw it back, Daddy get happy. I'm going to keep throwing the ball to Daddy because he gets happy. I saw in your stories, Gamma, he has cute little face on your phone and he say Hi, Hi, What did mommy do? Mommy's face lit up like he's like, Oh, when I said hi in that really cute voice, I make my mommy is so happy. Right, So he's learning what I do influences you huge. Now in the same way, they can use it differently. For example, here here's what you're seeing. Okay, you go to the grocery store. I want that lollipop. Mommy said, no, I want the lollipop. No, Mommy said, no, I want the lollipop. Mommy said no. Okay, Well I'm gonna throw my body down on the ground through a huge fit. Oh, she gave me the lollipop. Perfect. Every time I'm in the grocery store, if I want a lollipop, I just throw myself on the ground. I get a lollipo. I got this figured out. I know how to influence mom to get the lollipop at the grocery store. It's simple, right, So they this comes into play with sleep. Okay, if I throw a huge fit the entire nap time, guess what, I don't have to sleep. Look at me, I'm pretty good. I threw a huge fit. I don't have to sleep. Right, And guess what, Janna, I need you to hear this. You can't force him to sleep. It's not awful, Like, don't you feel out of control? Like I know he's tired, Like I know if I grabbed him, he would fall asleep right in right, And you know what you can do that? You can do that. You can just sit and rock him and hold him. But the things that you're doing now you have to be prepared, okay for the next six months, for every nap, every bedtime, in the middle of the night when he wakes up from I prepared to do that, and if the answers yes, go to it. Mike. I yeah, we can't do that. We can't do that. We did it for a week and it was exhausting in Michigan, which is then which caused the terrible thing. Yeah, hey, so do you see let's talk about that. So you went on vacation. What did he realize? He realized, Oh, oh, okay, so sleep in my crib. Okay, so there's actually other options. I could sleep on mom. I don't have to say. I could take a short nap and then get up. I can just he cool. These are really great options. If I get a pick, I'm not picking the crib. I pick you, right, okay, not no fault, no fault. It's just what he learned. And so now, and let me tell you, I believe in vacations, and I believe that there's ever a time to ever again, Karen. Never, I'm never taking a child on vacation. By the time you and I are done, I'm talk you in in two months to go in on another vacation. Not having like Okay, I know how to fix it. I know how to fix it now. But so he just learned there's other options. So now that you're home, we have to go back and say, okay, Jay's we were on vacation, you saw some other options. Guess what. At home, there's no other option. The only option is when it's naptime, you have to sleep. When it's bedtime, you have to sleep. Okay. Consistency is your best friend through aggression. See Okay, Um, let's talk about like some things like let's I said you can't control his sleep, right, you aren't in control, but you can say him up for success. So let's talk about like how do we do that? Um. Number one, we want to make sure that sleep pressure is built up in his little body, so like he's ready for a nap. You said, I know he's tired. Okay, that's perfect at this age, like a nineteen month old, we want from the time for morning time to that first nap to be about five and a half to six hours. So so normally let's say you wakes up for six thirty. Yeah, like eleven thirty twelve, I like, really a twelve to twelve thirty nap time? For this age, if it's a little bit earlier because he was waking up a little bit earlier. Maybe eleven thirty. Is that about what you're doing. Yeah, we donks up around like six thirty. Okay, so that that would work all right? Um, and before eleven thirty, nap was working great for you. Yeah, I was working amazing. Okay, we're gonna get him back there. So eleven thirty twelve, wish, that's a good nap time. Then when he would not how long would you normally? Not for two and a half to three hours, So great napper. So then we want abow four and a half to five hours until bedtime six when we put them down. Okay, So you've set up this kind of you know, it can be a flexible schedule, but kind of we build up the sleep pressure so that when it's time for him to go to sleep, his sleep tank is full and he's ready to take a nap. Right. So timing is great. You've done a good job. Let's talk about environment. Is it dark in there? It is dark, and I know you're it's like to not see I saw your hand thing on your Instagram and it is is very dark. Is it is it pitch black. No, but you know it's something where I'm like, well, he already has slept in that before, so but again I don't know. And then I started to think, well, gosh, if he can't sleep in this, how am I going to go? Because I want crete. Is the psycho trying to cover his windows whenever we go anywhere, you know, because it has to be pitch dark. But I'm like, it's it's dark. I feel like it's dark enough, but I don't know. Okay, so I think we get in our brains like, well, if I make it dark, then he'll always forever have to sleep in a really dark cave and they'll never learn to sleep in the light, right with anyone? Okay, we can work on that later, but right now, when he's in this hard time, we want to pitch dark. No night lights, no nightlights. Okay. At this age light light is only stimulation for the brain, so we want all night lights. And I know some parents are like, but Carol, what what if he's scared at the dark. Let me explain this to you. Imagination doesn't begin, like, doesn't really kick in until twenty four months, so like two to two and a half that's when he starts going, oh my gosh, I think there's dinosaurs in my closet. Maybe there's a monster under my bed. He's not there yet, So right now, dark isn't a fear. A light stimulates that brain, so we want it dark in there. If you've been using a night light, we want it dark because that's when melotonain, the sleepy hormone, is released. So dark, dark, dark, Okay, okay, cool, it's comfortable in there, right, all right, talk to me about your naptime bedtime routine, like the ten to fifteen minutes before laying him down. What's happening bottle book, um, real soft light on, Like we we have like a great I feel like a great environment in there. Um, it's just he will continue to throw his lobby and we'll be out um when we put him in his crib. And that's when you know. I've heard people say do not go in, no matter what because it's a game. And then I've heard the go in every this time, this time, this time, and I feel like when I go in, he just screams louder. So that's the struggle. Okay, So first off, before that, before bedtime, we want a nice, like soothing little routine. Doesn't have to be long, ten or fifteen minutes, just just like you and I before we go to bed, we want to unwind a few minutes. Give him your undivided attention for ten to fifteen minutes. Now we put him in the crib. Right now, this is when the fight begins. Here's what I'm gonna tell you. What he's looking for is your reaction. How are you responding? Okay? Now I'm going to tell you something. This is a story totally applies to the situation. Lately, like the older I've gotten, I'm more afraid to fly on an airplane. Logically, I know that sounds so dumb, like you're safer in an airplane cara than you are on on like in a cart. Right, when I'm on an airplane, my third to field bumps, I always look for the flight attendant. I'm like, okay, what's the flight attendant doing. If he's still pouring ginger ale, if she's strapped into her little seat reading her People magazine, I'm like, Okay, I know we're all right. Their job is to keep me safe. I know he would stop pouring that ginger ale, right right, I am looking for their reaction if they start panicking, Oh my gosh, this plane is going down. I know right like I am scared. So you are that flight attendant for Jason. You are telling him sleep is a big deal, this is gonna be awful, naptime is horrible. Or you're like, hey, buddy, it's naptime. You're gonna sleep. You're gonna have a great nap, and then you're gonna wake up. We're gonna have good day. You are the flight attendant for him. So here's what I'm gonna tell you. No matter how you decide to do it, you have to watch your reaction. So when you put him in his crib, you're going to speak truth to him. You're gonna say, Jay's, you're gonna take a grade nap. Mommy and Daddy, we're right outside these doors. When you wake up, we're gonna have a great day. Speak truth to your boy. He understands you, so tell him. We all do better when we know our expectations. What's your expectation, Jason, I expect you to take it right now. Ja's You're gonna go down in your bed and you're gonna sleep till morning and in the morning, we're gonna get up and have breakfast. It's going to be a great day. Speak truth to him. Okay, now let's talk about going in. Let's talk about those levees. Let's talk about what we can do to help them. Some people are like, do not enter the room. Do not. Um, you don't have to. But I'm going to tell you. When I start feeling turbulence on that airplane we're supplied to, I'm looking for him. I'm looking for her, like somebody just tell me we're okay. And if that flight attendant looks at me, because I'm usually the one like, oh my god, hold up that girl on the plane. You just always want to sit next to me. The flight attended at one time she looked at me and she's like, we're okay, You're gonna be fine. I'm like, oh, oh, this is normal. Yeah, it's normal. Just press are in the in the in the air Oh okay. So imagine Jay's is screaming. You walk into his room and you say, Jason, mommy's here. I love you. It's not time. I'll see you when you wake up. Oh. By the way, I'm putting these lovees in your crib now you're not going in because he threw the lovees out. You're going in just to tell him the flight's not going down, everything's fine. But you have to check yourself before you walk in that room. If you're like, oh my gosh, this is horrible telling me we're going down, Like if she looked at me and she's like, everything's fine, I promise now, right, So before you walk in that room, you are calm, you you're collected, You are telling him it's not a big deal. Just nap time. Here's your lovee, here's your passing. Good night. I love you. I'll see you when you wake up, and you can decide I'm just going to do it once. You can decide I'm going to do it every thirty minute. You can decide when you're going to do it. But when you walk in that room, do not be fooled. He can read you like a book. He knows you. He's looking for your reaction. Do not give him a reaction. At the end of naptime or in the morning when you get him out of the crib, no matter how it went, your reaction is good morning, Jason, it's so good to see you. I am so proud of you. You were in your crib the entire naptime. Do not react to negatively whatsoever. Sleep is not a negative thing. It's a positive thing. Your son knows how to fall asleep independently. He knows how to connect sleep cycles. He's a good sleeper. We just have to remind him. Oh you're you're still a good sleeper. Okay, your reaction that is good. It's as hard. I know, it's so hard. So and you talk so many moms off the ledge. Um you how long have you been doing? Is you have quite a following on Instagram. You've got almost a million followers. I mean people look to you and just um you know, is do you ever get um, not hate, but I mean do you ever say like that's that's not how you should do it? Or because because every baby is different, right, so how do you kind of deal with that? So? Okay, So as a nurse, my goal is to like understand infant development and say, okay, this is where little ones are developmentally, this is how we meet them developmentally. Um, it's all about like in the beginning. So I have a newborn class. This is for babies birth through twelve weeks, it's not sleep training. You know, sleep training. Newborns were just laying a healthy foundation. Okay, we're reading them where they are developmentally been around three to four months. They go through this like three to four month regression kind of like what you're facing eighteen months, but it's they're rocky developmental time. So I'm like, Okay, they're still not ready for foremal sleep training, but here's what you can do to kind of help them through then by months and older. I have a class. It's called the A, B C's of Sleep. It's a step by step plan to help parents who are like, my nights are horrible. I am not sleeping, this is awful. I need help with naps. I need help with nights. Maybe my baby's eating multiple times in the night. I want to help. But here's the thing. It gives him a step by step plan. And if a mom says to me, carre up. My eight month old is up fourteen times a night and I'm great with that. You know what I say? Good, Okay. If that's working for you, you're able to be the mom or the dad that you want to be. You don't have you don't have to do anything. If you ever want to change it. I'm here, I have a plan. I have a plan, and in fourteen nights, we can get this little one sleeping ten to twelve hours. I can help you teach your baby to fall asleep and connect those sleep cycles. And then the great thing is you have a plan for the next two years any time it gets disrupted, because look at Jac's a great sleeper. That sleep gets disrupted after illness or travel or regressions. Any time it gets disrupted, then you have a plan to fall back on. Anytime sleep is disrupted, you know what to do. So you feel like, right now, Joanna, you're retraining him. You're not. There's nothing that he doesn't have anything to learn, per se, because he knows how to fall asleep independently. He knows how to connect sleep cycles. What he's learning is, oh, I used to have an option. That option on vacation was to sleep. Was it your arms? Who's armed it? Mom? Or dad? Uh? My arms? And then Dad would rub his butt. Yeah, so here's the thing that's what he wants. He's like, no, no, I learned there was this other option, and then he would look up every time to see if he was still there, like there Okay, so there, so what we need to do. He's still an independent sleeper. We just need to show him he J's we're home now, we're going to go for our consistent plan that you know that does san that you can't rub this bottom for a few minutes as you put him in the crib. Okay, Jason, I'm here for you. I'm not going to do this until you fall asleep. I'm going to your bottom for a minute or two. Um, we just got to show him that option is over. We're going to go back to what we know consistency. Consistency. Consistency, Mike and Janet, if you were consistent for the next ten to fourteen nights, you're going to have your great sleeper back. Well, you know what, I'm going to talk to you right after this and in the next fourteen days. Okay, so we shall see. But UM, seriously, just thank you, UM, thank you for having UM you know, the platform to help other moms too, and dad's out there grandparents who was ever on on your site that that needs you, So make sure you guys go to taking care of babies on Instagram. UM a lot of helpful UM tips that I've already taken. So thank you, and I'm gonna d M right after or email you whatever right after this. Okay, thanks Kara. I appreciate it. I'm like, I'm a great mom, better mom on the planet for that baby than you. Well, thank you, Kara. So appreciate you taking the time. Thank you, Kara. Al Right, So, which which one are we doing? Mike? You know, historically I leaned towards what a Lanna kind of preaches, but after Kara kind of explaining her methodology behind it, I really understand. I love the analogy with the flighter tenant thing, especially because like you're just like her on a plane, and I can see how that also would be effective. You know, I'm still leaning towards the leaving b He's not gonna do anything to hurt himself. You gave him back his webby. Did he fall asleep? Yeah? Did he wake up though, I'm scared to look at it. No? All right, well it's anyways, It's okay, let's take a break. All right. So we're about to introduce Mega couple Real Housewives of Sarah. I know, but New Jersey, UM get you know what, Sarah, why don't you do the intro ladies and gentlemen coming to you live. You have Joe and Melissa Gorga of Real Housewives of New Jersey. That's good, Like announcer voice, did you take away the monitor for me for a reason? I just like to say that Mike just took the monitor away from me, just trying to help you be like, yeah, it's the only thing you can think about. Though. Yeah, I'm sure he's he down. He's laying down. God, that's huge. Waits, you know he's laying down. That's huge because I was like, okay, I know he really wants his webby and had been an hour of him crying, so he finally maybe like got it. Like hey, so he doesn't even lay down, he's like trying to crawl out, get his legs out. And Sarah, he hopped over. I saw he climbed out of his crib, walk downstairs, got out of his room, opened the door, got out of his room, walked downstairs. You're not prepared for that, Melissa, Hi, guys, how are you? Oh? Hey, oh don't you guys look so fabulous? Y right, I'm Janna. This is my husband Mike, and then Sarah is our Real Housewives. Um, correspondent because she's just, um, yeah, so how are you guys doing? Yeah, you guys are so cute. Oh it's like we're looking in the mirror right back at you guys. Thank you so much. I know. I was just I've just been like crying because we're having a problem with our our toddler, total sleep aggression and it's just like killing the mom heart right now. So I just had a good little cry session about five minutes ago. How to take the monitor away from her, Otherwise she'd sit here and be looking to the side the whole time. So how old are your kids? Again? I have a ten year old, at twelve year old and a year old. We have a four year old girl and in nineteen month old little boy, and that's the one giving us problems right now. Really, my daughter was so good until she turned eleven, and then she turned into a demon. Like, Oh that's how that's how our daughter is going to be. She is a chip off the old block with mom here and those two are gonna go at it for sure. You have no idea. I never would have thought I was going to be like that with her because she was my angel and she was was in her hair all day and it was like she just started to growl at me and looked at me like I was. She's like, I'm like are you good? Like your face? Okay? It was just remember that time we were friends and like did things together. Wait, so what do you do about it? Then we just went at it out the debt I did. She's like, Joe, you're gonna make her talk to me that way because I literally just said to her like we're discussing what time we're leaving the shore house and go home to our other house because that she wants to see her friends. And I'm like well, and she just snapped at me. I was like, I'll throw you off the table. So scared for kids, all these stories, but it is so fun. Our daughter just told me to chill the other day and she's four, said, Dad, chill. I was like, I just had to walk out of the room. And then yesterday I picked up Jolly from her friend's house and she goes, you broke my heart and I was like what, Like, I'm so sorry, honey, but I mean, like, what I ever do to you exactly? Wait? So what do you do then? Like how is your discipline with your with with your daughter when she talks like that. I mean, I threatened. I'm like a threat. I won't go anywhere. But she knows I'm all both because I never doing anything. What did you do when there are babies? Because that's my biggest thing. Did you let them cry it out? Or did you coddle them and hold them? Um? Let him cry it out. The more you ignore them, the more you train them. But the more you you caught ale them and you take it, it's gonna be a prompt for you later. Yeah, I mean, I think I'm with them, you know, It's just it's hard. I mean, I'm the kind of I want to coddle him and put him in bed with us, and Mike's like, nope, ain't happening, Like just just let him cry it out, And I'm like, I can't, no, beg you gotta keep that sex life, that's right. Yea. Sometimes I would purposely bring my child in the bed just for a nice little break. I would I would wait that the kid fell asleep and there you good. You know what he would do is wait till the child fell asleep and then get the child who him or her out of the bed. Well, here's actually you talk about sex life last night to bring you into our marriage a little bit. I was super tired and obviously had a real emotional day with Jason. But you know, it's been a minute. It's been a minute, and so I tried to like, you know, cattle up on him and I'm like kissing him, and so I basically got the hint that he didn't want anything, and so I turned over and I was like, I feel really turned down right now because he always says I don't really make the move, but I like, he's like, I want to know you're making a move. I'm like, when do I cuttle up and like basically hump your leg and kiss you like never you know what it is. We're just so shocked when it happened. We don't know what to do. Wait, that was you feeling guilty? Like, wait, it's been a minute. Let like try to like do something. Here. Shanna's one line and we're watching a movie with like a ship in a submarine shot of torpedo and she's like, I could use a torpedo. I was like, funny joke, I was, I don't really know that. As you move alright, so I know you um Sarah, do you got any questions for for the housewives lovers? And then I could be here all day. But my first question is I'm actually curious, are you guys filming or are you going to film? How is Quarantine filming going to work? Um? We actually started filming for like a week or two and then hold On and then COVID happened and they closed us down, so we only got like a half an episode in and we are about to start up again because there was just my husband is a hockey fanatic, and what am I gonna do? Bravo needs to get some shows out because I cannot be watching hockey all day long, I know, I know. Well, we're going to one of the ones who are definitely filming during this craziness. So we'll see like how that goes. It's either going to be a full like I don't know, like you're gonna be your kids are gonna be filming you on their iPhones. Well, we've been there, John Dad already, we've been doing some things like that. But we're doing real like heads up filming coming up. So yeah, I'm ready. I'm so ready turned it over fast enough, you know. Speaking of they've got to be. They're really pumping out some stuff right now. So yeah, everybody's watching TV. Yeah, yeah, that's all we got to do. Speaking of filming and everything, before you guys even got I'm gonna take you back before you even got on the show. Has it the kind of notoriety that you all have, the following that you guys have. Has it met expectations, exceeded expectations? Is there anything you would change about it, like knowing what you know now about your experience. Um, not too much. I feel like Joe and I like, out of the Housewives and the cut, we've gotten obviously a lot more of the positive. Um, we do show that we go through struggle and we're like a real family and we fight through it and we show we really do show our real couple situations all the time. So we've learned to we don't take it too seriously, Like we really know some housewives and I won't mention names. It's not just our franchise. They get on this show and they want to divorce, they want a statue in the middle of their town, they want to be named after them. It's like insane when it's like we just we're on a show. Obviously we have great opportunities from it. I have Envy, my boutiques amazing, my online is amazing. So that like we've learned, I mean, I have a whole you know, we're you guys get that we're branded now at this point, and you know, there's so many opportunities with that. For me, it's like we go to work, but we also go to work very authentically. So it's like we go to work and I get it that it's a job, but we're showing what we would really do and saying what we would really do. And when I have an argument with these ladies, I'm not putting it on for the cameras. I really tell um, I think their whack jobs winner. Also, it's it's it's we get that it's work, but it's authentic work. You know, Melissa, you just talked about your company Envy and everything. And Joe, I know you just released a book, right the Gorger Guided to Success, which has been a best seller show far. How is that and what can just for the men out there that listen to this podcast, what can we expect from reading that book? It's all about motivation, How how I start out in business? Um, how to love a woman, how to treat a woman, because a lot of men out there don't know how to treat a woman. And you know, well, she's happy's mping that leg. I must be doing something right if she's humping the leg last night. Well that's that's. Yeah. It's all about you. If you you can have all the money in the world, but if you don't have to be a man and be a father and be a being a husband, you're nothing. In my book, so it's kind of a little bit about that, and you know, it's a it's a quick read, it's a great read. You know, it's more it's also about just like getting started in business and come from the bottom and having immigrant parents from Italy that could barely speak the language and creating what we have now. You know that's awesome. Um, maybe you can do add that to here, because Mike does a motivation thing in the morning and that could be a that'd be a good book too. It will be next Right now, he's reading How to Be an Adult in a Relationship, So that's uh, he's been crushing. He's crushed in that book right now. Um, But in y'all's couple Ship what is the thing that's UM a constant, like you have to continue to keep working on UM. I think it's what we have to keep working on. Is like would you argue we like over some petty stuff. I don't know. We think you know, listen, most important thingship, all right, we've been married fifteen years going on sixteen, but I we keep it as a boyfriend and girlfriend relationship. I'd say she's my wife, but I think about my girlfriend. Sex. We talked about sex. Sex is extremely important. You know you have you have a young baby. Usually moms that have babies are like, oh, I'm tired at the end of it. Well, you can't be taught now you have him to think about. Right, Right, you got when you keep that alive, you keep that happy. You got a good marriage. And it's all about marriage. With what happened to COVID, everybody shut down who you shut down with your family? There's nothing else, right, What do you guys think of that impacting I mean just from I guess people of celebrity status in the rate of divorces that have been happening, just those are just divorces that we see right because of of media picking it up. But I can't imagine people that aren't being you know, opening the public about their divorces. Like, what do you guys think about that? Do you think the COVID has been a big impact on that and enforcing us to be so around each other so much? You know what, I've been married to him for fifteen years. I have never spent this amount of time with him in my life. And that's like, so I can understand why people are like WHOA. Like our routine is usually he gets up very early in the morning, he comes home, there's like that two hours after dinner before someone falls asleep on the couch, and then there's the weekend. But like when it's NonStop, I can see why couples are like WHOA, this is like a lot of time with you, because I think people get into a routine of like, Okay, well I'm gonna hang out with him a couple of hours and I'm gonna get a sleep and then like hang out a weekend in front and they don't realize Like I think COVID did open a lot of people's eyes to like who they're married to and like what it's like if you have to spend every minute of every day. So what about what how do how do you feel? I'm good, I'm good, I still like me, still cool. No, But I mean I think I honestly, I think that we even got a little closer. Yeah I didn't. I mean, we were always tight, but I think we got a little bit more closer. So if there's true love and somebody really loves each other' gonna get closer right in times like this, or they're gonna be like, hell, no, you suck, you know, I mean I could definitely. It's like we've done so much freaking therapy in our relationship that it's like because the same thing, like we spent so much time together. Now if our communication, if are we didn't have those skills, we would probably be right there with them in the tabloids. For I can't freak an analysts because it's it's it's a lot, it's amazing. Everyone says it helps so much, and it's amazing. Do you agree therapy it's the only way we've been able to survive. Big advocates for it personally and a couple of ships for sure, and having that third party just help us talk to each other because I think for us, like, yeah, you guys communicate a lot. You hold it in and then went the therapy and then you learn about that. We've learned how to communicate now from our therapist. There's like the safe talk process of like how to identify and not blame because a lot of times I'd be like, well, you're doing this and you're doing that. Well, he's not going to hear that at all if I'm saying you you you you you have to you know. So it's like we've just learned now how to talk. We don't do it right every time. You know, I didn't do it right this morning. Um, you know, so there's certain times where you guys are laughed. Why are you laughing? You for being honest. I just love listening to other couples. I forgot how much I love listening to other couples. I want to be a therapist in my next life. I just like how you're honest. You're being honest. You're like, I didn't do a great job this morning, up doing what I'm sposed to do. But but you know we're still here. Yeah, yeah, And it's just you know, we'll do it better next time, and you know we don't do it perfectly. But we're doing it a hell of a lot better than we did the past few years. Yeah, And to answer your question, Joe, that's exactly how we were, Joe was we would hold it in, we would push it down, build his resentment that would blow the f up, you know, or wait till therapy and then we just all during therapy when we want to play the blame game and it's pouring each other. Instead of using that time to learn more about one another, you know, we'd use as as an opportunity of platform to blame each other, and that just didn't work out. So because of things like this morning, us not handling things exactly perfect, we're still able to come do this, be together, be friends, still love each other and not it ruined our entire day like it used to. And that was the biggest thing, is our rebound time between disagreements are kind of missing. We're able to come back right around because of what we've learned, which makes sense, like not holding onto the grudge for the whole weekend and ruining your whole weekend because of an argument. Right, everyone was your weekend just as much as it would his if you sit there and hold onto it all day. So yeah, that would suck. Would you guys if you had if you look back, would you have done Housewives again? Like if if you could do it again, Like would you still do it? Knowing kind of everything that went through and how like you know, your sister was like all those things that kind of came to the foreground. Is it something that it's impact of the family maybe, like yeah, you guys have all gone work through it and gone you know, and are better now. But is it something where you're like, man, maybe maybe we shouldn't have done that, and I we wouldn't have done it again. I mean, I think we have different opinions on this, Like for me, I would do it again. And I don't think it's that like impactful I feel, I mean it has been, but I feel like we've done a really really good job. I sometimes feel like he wishes that we didn't get into it, and I think it's just two different It's because it sends me out of the house obviously a lot more than it sends him out of the house. It keeps me busy when I was home a lot more, and I think he misses that, do you know what I mean? Sure? And you know your wife's all over the place and you want to come home, and you know, I built a great company and I'm working and I didn't need this in my life. And things change, you know, it's fifty fifty. There's good things and then there's bad things. You know. Uh, with our family, we were really in turmoil and the show kind of brought us together, so we are better. So sometimes I said, I wish I never did it, and sometimes I like it. You know, depends on the day, for sure. No, that totally makes sense. And with all of you guys have been able to benefit from with the show. We know you're launching that new app with that Celebrity slots. Tells a little bit and our listeners about that because it sounds amazing. Yeah, it's so fun. Our game is called Power Couple. So it's just a super super fun game where you know, Joe and I do voiceovers in it. We did photo shoots for It's a slot game. Um, so much fun and you can win like celebrities. If you're playing our game, you can win like shoutouts from us as on the smaller range, and then we signed books for you. You can win signed books. You can win like the big grand prizes. You come to Jersey and have dinner with us. So that's so cool. I want to play. I want to have dinner with y'all. You guys, where are you? Okay? Oh, I want to come come on? Yeah but um but yeah. So it's like there's there's personal experiences and things that you can win, like a skype interview with us is one of the better prizes to um, things like that. So it's all free to download. It's a free game replay. Yeah, so it's awesome. It's such a great thing. We were so happy we did those free to not Ain't that Ain't that the truth? Oh? My good? Um, there's something. Oh I was gonna say something, but I wasn't sure if I could say it. But we might or might have auditioned for a certain uh Sarah's coming around a certain Housewives um thing. But I'm we haven't heard back yet. But at the same time, I'm like, I would be so afraid, like we'd be just eating a live spit out and then like canceled the next day. We'll be so cute and love and real and it will be the most loved has been on the show. You guys will be awesome in it, and you'd be like Melissa and just call out all the wack jobs like you're being an idiot, and you'd be great. You know. The audition came during quarantine and I'm like, all right, well, I'm like we're not doing anything else, you might as well entertain it. But we haven't heard anything, so I'm like, maybe we were just like boring people for you can't say I mean they didn't say I can't, so right, that's fine. The Beverly Hills, would you have to like move there? Yeah, we lived there before we came back to that, like we would just do like part time. But I mean, Teddy's a friend and so. But I have not heard anything, so I'm sure it's not going any further, but it was it was fun to entertain hold right now, so you never know, like you I could see you going in there like that totally. I think I think we'd get eat eaten up and spit out. But then because because I am so like, I get a lot hate hated on because the things that I say, because I'm very sarcastic, and I wouldn't want to filter myself too much because then I you know, I don't know. It just seems like it's That's why I asked, like if you regret it, because it seems like once you're in, it's like, okay, people are either going to love you or hate you. And I have a hard time with criticism and people not liking me, so I don't I don't know how I could physically handle up. No, you have to be okay with that because it comes when you're on Housewives Particular, which by the way, is one of the longest reality shows out there. Besides like the Kardashians and like the Housewives are really all the franchises are like Mega, you know, in in the reality world and I'll Bravo. So the fans are deep, strong, opinionated. You will have them. They will die for you, but they will also want you debt like you have to have the thickest in and be like, okay, see you later onto the next like you cannot even blink. I literally the first two years I was on that show, I cried under my bed, like pull my feet out from under the bed. I'm not going on the line today because the parents are gonna look at me like that. Moll I was like, you don't even know what I didn't go through. It was bad. I'm freaking crow. I am a crow. You guys gonna say now, you would never know. You're out here telling them what's up, like you don't give up, like I'm this right, I'm this, and I would like to thank on the show. So oh my gosh. Well, I mean, if if in it probably would not, but if it did happen, I'm gonna be calling you, okay, so she can be your coach. We need a new house. He's got a next girlfriend in Jersey, so why don't you call her up? Perfect? What part of Jersey staten eile, Well, come to Nashville. We'll come to Jersey. Love you guys so much. Everybody download this their Celebrity Slot game. Can you plug it one more time for us? Yes, guys, Celebrity Slot you can get downloaded on the app Store. It's all free to download. So much fun. And maybe we'll have dinner with you guys. I'm obsessed with you guys. This is so real and we can talk relationships and to dinner. We're gonna come visit you guys, Okay, love you guys. Thank you so much, Thank you guys so much, Sarah you there. I'm obsessed with them. I love her, I love and I feel like you could all be best friends. I'm just like still shock that you just dropped the Beverly Hills bomb. I don't I don't think I get in trouble. She didn't make me sign anything. I don't think, so, I don't think so. I don't know. But it's been. It's been. So I had a phone interview with her and then we had then she wanted to meet Mike and so we did the whole face time zoom. It was in the end of May and she said, I'll talk to you in a month. So I mean, it's been over a month, so I figured, like I texted Teddy and I was like, hey, how did you know? Did she say it went good? And She's like, oh my god, it said she said it went amazing. So I mean it sounds like it's probably not a go since it's been. But I mean, I don't even know if something you would want to do it's going to die. Maybe it could be good because people could start commenting and next thing you know, it's like hashtag. But like, I feel like I would be like Melissa under the bed like you would have to drag my. I can't handle that. I can't even handle the wine down like comments Sarah, I need be living for a while because I mean, you here for more support. Yeah, no, you I mean yeah, yeah, they were awesome though. There are a lot of fun. Yeah, there are a lot of fun. And I want to play the app just so I can maybe potentially win to hang out with them. Hey, you have to you have to hang out with us now, right, like hot, like that would be kind of stoker ish, but um yeah, I really like them a lot. But the Housewives franchise, I mean, Sarah, you're obsessed. But I mean it's like I feel like, if you say the wrong thing, you get canceled. But you want to know what as fast as you don't, you get hated on. But there's you know, there's a new story, there's a new episode, there's the next So that's why it's like I can't even tell you what happened in New Jersey two seasons ago, you know what I mean? Yeah, So like, yeah, you say something stupid, but then they hate another housewife the next week or I don't know, but yeah, I would be Wow, it would be interesting to say the least, but I'm still holding up for my acting career. So we'll see. Would you put the kids on the show if you guys went on. I mean, gosh, they're already a part of my ah. I will say this. I would until they say they don't want to be on. That's kind of how I I've already, you know. Unfortunately, I sometimes feel bad that I've shared so much about about them and um, because it is kind of weird. Like when we were at Disney World and someone was like Jollie and I was like, how does a complete stranger? But then I was like, oh crap, like I did this to her and I had this huge, like breakdown. I was like, but how do I reverse it? Because our life is sharing our story and our kids and um longster shut. I kind of came to we came to the conclusion that was like, Okay, when there's a time they're like Mommy, I don't want to be our put the phone away or no pictures or whatever, then I'm going to respect that. So I thought, I don't but I don't know what to do. Maybe that's the wrong thing to say. I don't know. I don't think there is a right thing. I just you're so protective that I could that I could see you caring way more about the kids than you know what I mean, you don't want anyone shot when when I put this stuff about Jolie out there and I had people saying how my daughter speaks like a troll and she's she's you know, and yes she had she has a speech delay. She's gotten so much better, but like, don't attack my kids, like attack us, you know, Mike, But it's just you know what I mean, it's that's that's where again. But that would be my fault and then I'd feel like a terrible parent and then like here I am like posting another cry myself. Is it's our kids, it's our decision until it's theirs. And I can tell you right now, Julie would definitely not say don't she's funny record thing. Yeah, she's gonna want it as much as anybody. So, um, can we please? Though I do want to plug miss Sarah. She has a new podcast, okay, okay, okay, and I'm so excited about it and I really really want to be a guest because we need to talk sex in the City episodes. But please tell everyone about your new podcast. Oh my god, I can this is Sarah No. I mean, it's just it's still very new. It's very much in the works. We've recorded like a teaser and a half. Um. But I feel like during Quarantine and especially after the miscarriage, I went a little bit of like a dark slum and I just was like, I need something. I need something to do with my time, I need something to obsess over. I just need something else to fill my mind. And so I just one of my girlfriends and I were kind of talking and we were like, you know what, every day you're texting someone saying, hey, have you seen this show? Oh my god, did you see this show? Oh my god, did you watch this movie? What are you watching on Netflix? And so we were like, why don't we just do a podcast? You know, it could be movies, documentaries, shows, housewives, um, really anything, and it's just for fun and it's just to give people, you know, people there are podcasts that recap everything, So we're like, why don't we just recap You know, we're no oscars or enemies. You know, my opinion does not matter. But it's just a light, fun show where we're going to just do a little recap and what's the name of it? The net chicks I love so much. I'm so excited for you. And when it comes out, you better to believe that wind Down will be promoting I'll be promoting the heck out of it because we love you well. You can come on and we'll talk, you know, our shows, and then obviously Mike's gonna have to come talk to the honest obviously, And then I just want to check in really fast. How are you with um everything post miscarriage. I'm good. I just feel like I'm better. I'm much better, but I still obsessed. It's just there. And that's why I'm like, I don't know when it goes away or when you are okay or when you stop obsessing. But are you and I still trying. I'm just scared you haven't tried as much as as much as I'm like tough, and I'm just I'm so scared, which this might be too much info, but nobody tells you about the first period after them. I mean I was traumatized, like I literally was having like PTSD and I was like, I I can't go through this again. And so I'm just scared, right now, which again, I don't know if that ever goes away, but I'm just happy to have something else take take my mind over because I was obsessed. I mean, it's all I thought about. It's still all I think about, but it's you become obsessive, and that's what scares me. So it breaks my heart. And I please don't take this the anyway, but I'll say from experience and the only thing that truly helped me make me forget about it, unfortunately, and this sucks, and I hope this is in the case for you. But it wasn't until I was pregnant again. M hm. So it's like I, I hope that you can. I can't imagine the fear of not wanting to try again, but that might be the you know, you're gonna wonder when you're pregnant again, and then during your miscarriage. During your pregnancy, you're gonna wonder about miscarrying every day. But until you have that baby in your hands, that's when it goes away. For me, at least again. I won't go play golf with Tide because I refuse to learn, because I refused to not be good for that month or two months or however long. I just don't like not being really good at things. So I'm so afraid that we're going to spend a month or a two, or three however many months and I won't get pregnant, and then I'll just freak out inspiral. And I know it takes time, and I know some people it's taken ten years, but me, personally, I don't do well with not being good at things. That's just one of my things. And so I'm so the fear of not being good or pregnant is what's stopping me. It's almost like that. It's like a trauma. It's like almost like a trauma. Hold honor you if you talk to someone about that, to maybe help release some of those so that you can not have it be so heavy for you. No, I just feel like I've been working out a lot because I feel better, But then I'm scared. Am I working out too hard? Am I working out too much? You know what I mean? Like? Is this hurting my body? So I don't know, it's just I would like to be out of quarantine. I would like this all to end. I feel like, not that it's ever easy, but I feel like it would be a lot easier if I could like go live my life, you know, I wouldn't obsess as much as I have. But that's okay, it will happen. We're gonna will. Y'all just need to keep having sex, I know, and we are. I'm just scared to do it during certain time. I'm just scared. It's it's all fear. I think you should talk to someone to help, because I could talk to you and blew my face on your friends. But I think there's something. I think there's the some kind of PTSD from that has just escalated those other feelings that you've always had. In my opinion, I don't know, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, it's just like anything. You know. It's almost like, uh, when you're a kid and you get advice to your parents, like you don't want to accept it because you're like his mom, dad, But if a friend or someone else says the same thing, you're like, Okay. It's kind of the same with this kind of stuff you hear from your friends because you feel like they have to say something make you feel better, or if you go to a third party it's like okay, No, I mean I know, I'm like I'm doing it to myself, you know, like I'm letting it marinate in my mind and control, which is why I'm happy to try and do things to where it's not so controlling. Well, I think people should check out The net Chicks so they can at least at least follow on Instagram with the Instagram Sarah. Um, the nut Chicks on Instagram because we're updating. Yeah, there will be. If you're looking for miscarriage talk or for me to crop, it's not going to happen on the Nut Chicks. It'll happen here on Wine Down, It'll happen here. And the Nut Chicks is where I go, and I pretend like nothing exists, Nothing else exists except for um, what I'm watching on Netflix and Bravo perfect. I love it, Sarah, and I love you and um you know what. Um Yeah, we just everyone here at wind loves you. I love you guys. Everyone's just in it right now. And I think I think that the takeaway for this episode is that nothing is perfect. We're all in this season together and we're all going to get through it together. So let's and it will get better whatever it is. Yeah, hide the monitor, go outside, start a podcast, whatever. We'll make you happy and fulfilled and takes you away. But also just know that there's people struggling with you. You're not alone. Amen, all right, See you all next week, hie guys,