Wine down with Janet Kramer and I heard radio podcast Wine Downtime. Downtime, I'm so excited. Do you want to recap our week? Bab? Sure? What do we do this all week? Kenny? Well, I was supposed to go on strike. How did that go? Well? It didn't because I just felt like if I did, then stuff would just be not taken care of. So I had a really hard time, and a lot of other women were like, I would love to strike with you, but unfortunately nothing would get done. But what would not have gotten done this week? So there were times when I walked past the dishwasher I knew that, no, no, you were really bad this week about not loading the dishwasher, and I had like emptied it, and so I thought, I'm like, Okay, if I don't empty it now, then I'm just gonna have more and then when we make dinner, and then it's just going to be even more of a chaos. And if I don't help, then he's gonna be like, why aren't you helping me? So I just I kind of was just like, Okay, I'm done with this. I can't if first of all, first of all, whatever I ever said, why are you not helping me. No, Well, I mean it's we just kind of do it together, right, We just do it together. And secondly, that's what that's not like really something to go on strike about doing the dishes, because that's something we both do. I know, But I'm just saying, for example, there's got to be one of these things that you talk about, this would never get done if I didn't do it. Well, okay, I know it would get done, but I'm just saying I would have won things done on more of my time. Like you came home from home depot and there were something sitting on the kitchen counter. I really wanted to move it, but I didn't, and it took two days for you to move it. It was your or deodorant wash stuff that was sitting on the counter that you went to like Walgreens or whatever. Deodorant. Yeah, but I was sitting on the counter for two days. I counted, and then you finally moved it. Okay, I know, I'll be sure you'd be more conscious of the stuff that you leave around. Okay, Okay, so that's the thing I feel like, maybe you got as just keep more score in your head. No, we don't keep any score. We just want things cleaned. Then just clean him. Do it. Okay, my strike was really bad. I didn't do it. I didn't go over too well. It didn't go well. And then we toured the hospital towards the hospital where the baby's going to be born. Oh that's awesome. What do the rooms look like. I'm having kind of an anxiety attack of they're very small. So we started the tour and they took us into the triage room. And I had a C section with Jolie so at a different hospital. Different That's why we toured the hospital here in l A. And I like, the triage room is really nice where they set you up and everything. But I already am gonn. I'm gonna have a schedule C section because I personally just don't want to do a V back. I know there's risk for both, but I've already had a C section and you know it took us back. I know it's yeah, and I've already had the car down there, and I just agree. I'm a little sad that I missed the vaginal birth experience, but then I quickly get over it. Are you a little bit? Are you? What? What are you? So? You know I was going to go all natural. I was like all in nothing, no epidural, nothing at you puncture, you know, like yeah, yeah, I was like I was like zend out playlist ready, you know. Um. And that's not the way it happened, because did I ended up having a C section And well, I was dilated probably at about A seven before I got the epidural. I mean I was at the point where it was I was dying every forty five seconds and would have fifteen seconds of relief, right, So it was like every four was I would have forty five seconds of like back labor, and then it would be fifteen seconds of like, oh my god, I can take a breath, and then it would be like, oh I'm dying a gun. Um. So Rocco was he was. He was. He was like seven pounds eight ounces. He wasn't like he wasn't a huge baby, which you wouldn't believe that because he's now uh four ft three inches and seventy one pounds at six years old. Um, but he was. He was ready to clown, except he was leaning on his he had his right hand, uh like placed on the back of his head, so he was like just chilling like this, and they were like, his hand isn't he's not moving it. We we have to go on and get them. Like, he won't move. You were trying, like you you were trying, and by that point you had still no yeah, because he was like, you know, he was just chilling, not ready. UM. So they quickly gave me the upper girl and it was heavened. I was like, right, oh my god, Why was I so stupid? And then I had the C section and I was like, fine, whatever, the baby's he's healthy. I'm healthy. You know. I don't think you have to feel so bad about missing out on maybe that natural experience, especially when it's out of your control, out of your control. With Jan's it was the same thing where her fever started to spike a little bit. My water broke a couple of days obviously before before the schedule date, and you can only if your water breaks, they only have so many hours. At some point they have to go in and get the baby. Labored for about four hours. But I had the epidirl right away. I mean, I was smarty. Second, I my pain because we were in Nashville. My water broke. I got up from bed and I said honey, I don't think. I just pete myself like oh god. And then within a minute I had contractions every minute on the minute and he's brushing his teeth. Take your time. I was like, good enough, Like do I need to call mind you? This is like the third or fourth whatever quote I'm doing air quotes alarm that we had in that week. So we had already gone to the hospital like three times that week, right, and she's like, I think I'm having the baby and we get the hospital. I was like, no, baby, I think I'm having So it was like three times that week. The fourth I guess the fourth time was a charm. So this time she's like my water Brooks. I'm like, here we go again. So this time I'm like brush my teeth, he's tying, run out and my pgs. My mom's upstairs. I'm like my water. She's like runs down the stairs. They go out for the car. I'm taking my time. I come out nor her mother comes in. It's like Mike, I think we really need to go. And for the listeners who haven't had a baby yet, when you see water break in movies and film and TV, it is nothing like that in real life. Because you're like, wait, did my water break? Yeah, because in the film, in a film, it's like water. Yeah, this was more of just like a So anyways, we go to the hospital, I end up trying to labor, end up having an emergency C section. Julie comes out YadA yutah um. We'll talk about that part later. But I know people do v backs. I know they actually say that a v back is actually safer than a C section. And I've thought about if my water breaks again before my scheduled C section, should I try to be back basically a vaginal birth after C section? Right? But I could also hemorrhage die the C section scar could first, I mean, but it's something can go wrong in the C section surgery to like they actually say your chances are worse than a C section versus the back. I don't know. I've been googled, like I've been talking to Dr Google. So stop googling. I know. Right, So fast forward to you know, or rewind to the to the room, and I was like, man, maybe I really should trivaginal. But then I was like, nam, good, So I mean if it happens, it happens, and then the baby is coming, We gotta go, we gotta go, and then whatever. But I'm hoping that, you know, it was. And I was telling Michael, I'm having some anxiety around it, just because you just don't know what's gonna happen. Is my water going to break like it did with Joy before. I'm starting to stress, Like when we're going over the hill yesterday to go to the hospital, it's taking, you know, a good amount of time. And j I was like, what if my water head broken and we're trying to hospital. You need to tell that baby you're not coming. It's rush hour. I know, I'm very scared. He's like, well, what if I get pulled over? I was like, then I'm hopping in the police car and the police car is going to siren me to the hospital. Actually, I actually have a couple shortcuts to get you guys through the hill. Okay, if you want me to share those, okay, we we'll definitely get on that for sure. But anyway, so we go to the triage room. Triage room looks really pretty where they're going to do the vachel on birth there's a lot of room. But then where you go to do your postpartum girl, it's so small. Is there a couch? Nothing? One chair? Can you get a suite? Can't up minimum night? That's almost and if it's three to four nights, so that's almost eleven. I'm like, we can't do that. That's eleven to seventeen thousand dollars. We can't. We can't rationalize that for a couch. But you know, I'm not trying to be a baby too. But it is a small and it's all about what your prior experience was, or our prior experience was in Nashville where the hospital we went to. We're naturally in Williamson County or Davidson County, and outside of Nashville, it's not as populated as l A County, So rooms are gonna be a little bit bigger. That's just you know, that's just how it is, right, So you're caught that you saw I had a really great sweet There's a fold up cot in the corner for the dad to sleep on, which as soon as you lay it out, takes up the remaining of the floor space. So it's the bed and the cotton that's it, and then the beast enough for the baby. Then like you're blocking the door for the bathroom, and it's just so I'm having I'm having slightly anxiety attack about that. So I understand that because I I are, I don't like small spaces. It scares me. I would love just to have at least a couch, just couch so when Jolie comes to visit or any friends come to visit. Yes, but I was at Kaiser, which is a very holistical the one on Sunset. Oh, and it is incredible. It was incredible that and I was able to have the acupuncture during labor. I mean, I had a totally different experience. Were considering, kind of had to talk yesterday. I mean we talked to Janna's kin know about about It's like it's where he delivers right, so anywhere else because do you deliver anywhere else at the sl preferably in the sweep right across the street. Not trying to be I'm not trying to be a that's that's not you know, deefitely not trying to be deva that we have are fantastic. And the medical yes, the medical staff that you have around you, it's so lucky everything. I'm very happy, very grateful. It's just you know, it's coming very soon, and I'm starting to get anxiety around it. Do you think we should do a podcast in the hospital. Absolutely, I'm I'm there. I think I'm coming in. I think we should just do a live podcast from there. I think we should talk, especially if you're in labor. Oh my god, like or Easton would well, I think that might be too much. He might have to be here in studio. Yeah that's true, but he wouldn't. He wouldn't be able to handle the rest of bombs. But I mean we should, we should think about that. I wonder if you guys would be interested in doing a live podcast birth right in right about like midwives. I'm just I'm too scary. I'm not the I have to have doctors. I have to have I mean, when when Jolie came, I mean, how many questions did I ask the doctors and nurses. I even said, I was crashing in the middle of the c section. Yeah, she's sitting there, not even no, not even during the c section, before, before the c section, just when she has the epidural, because it was you don't think frozen. I can't. I don't feel I can't do anything. Is a hypochondria episode at first she doesn't have the epidural, so she's just complaining about the pain and everything that. Then she has it, then she's complaining that she can't feel anything, which is the whole point of an epidural. It is weird crashing and the nurses like, honey, you're not crashing. That means like you're flatlining. You're not crashing. So they know when I'm crashing, go get the doctor. I'm crap, you don't understand I'm crashing. I didn't do that. Then I thought I did that in the hospital, Like when did it before you even had the surgery? Oh really, it is a strange feeling to just be numb, like from the waist down it is. I I didn't like it either. It's it's a very strange feeling. It is. So that's why I could never do the holistic in the bath. I give mad props to woman that can do that. But I need all the doctor, I need all the attention, I need all the medical staff, the nurses. She wants the whole wing shutdown resource well. And then they couldn't figure out what's wrong with me because my white blood cell counts are really high. So I was convinced I was dying. My my friend Catherine was there and she's like, okay, so what's wrong with you? I said, well, they said my my favorite spiking it's one or four plus my white blood cell counts. And she's like, okay, I'm gonna google it, and she googles it and I look at her and she's like, um, don't don't, don't worry about it. I was like, it says that died. You guys said the stuff googling, especially while you're in the hospital when there's actual But I was wrong, which was so scary, and so I thought I was for sure. I was like, man, I would have been such a great mom. Never, goot, it's awful. We have podcast, do a live podcast because this stuff is too good to not get on tape. We'll see. I mean, it's scary though, when you're being wheeled in for the C section and your body is going left to right and you're getting so so I thought, I thought I freaked out after Jolie came out of me. Did you did that as well? I did, Okay, and then didn't you tell the nurses? Oh? She was in grayze anatomy. This is just her acting. She's watched too much Graze Anatomy. I was like, this is just it's a long story short. Let me know. If you guys want us to do a live birth, email us and at Jane graymand iron media dot com. It's gonna be fun. Just scrubbing in back in Antonio. But I I just had to put out there. I'm just feeling a little nervous, but I'm really excited because after pregnancy. So I've been using thread up, which is the world's largest online consignment and thrift store shop. With off estimated retail prices that's nine percent off. It's crazy. But what I love about thread up is the fact that they have really, really, really great brands. So they've got brands like made Well Up and in a Republic, BCBG, Steve Matt and Kate Spay, Lululemon, Coach. There's so many great brands, and so you know, I like to shop. I like to shop online, so thread up is perfect for that. It's a perfect place when you're looking to update your wardrobe on a budget, and that's exactly what I want to do after the baby. So if you love to shop, you need to check out these deals I thread Up plus if you sign up, you'll get an extra thirty percent off your first order at thread up dot com slash Janna. Make sure there's no a in there that's thread up th h r e d up dot com slash Janna, that's thread up dot com slash Janna for an extra depresent off today promo code Janna thirty hip bit. You know it's also going to be great. What's for dinner tonight? Well, I'm not even worried about tonight. I'm worried about when we are in the hospital and we come home and we need something to cook. Luckily, Hello Fresh is gonna be there for us, ready and waiting. Oh my god, you love Hello Fresh. It's the best, and you're my favorite has been thus far. That Chipotle pineapple chicken. You still make that? You remake that? Yeah, that's one of the recipes I've kept in the drawer because it's so good. I've even taken pictures of it and send it to people. I sent it like my brother because he likes cooking. It's like, hey, make this for my mom and dad. It's amazing. There's no grocery shopping, so we don't have to worry about that, which is fantastic because obviously with a new baby on the way and a toddler, it's going to be great to have the groceries sent to us, the meals completely delivered. Everything is going to be pre measured, pre planned. Nothing's longer than thirty to forty minutes, including prep time and cooked time. It takes me a little longer just to read things. Takes a little longer. It takes like an hour. I'm like, wait, why does I looked up the other day what it said? I had to something with the line. I had to get the shaving like the line. I was like, what is Alexa? What does zestimate? You have a disester you fancy? But it's it's actually is very easy. I'm just, you know, a little slow of things. But Michael is going to take that one and get the wine. Oh, there's no question. And for a total of sixty dollars off, that's twenty off your first three boxes, visit Hello Fresh dot com slash creamer sixty and enter creamer sixty again. If you want sixty dollars off, it's twenty dollars off your first three boxes. Visit Hello Fresh, slash Creamer sixty and enter Creamer sixty. You guys will not regret it. Michael came up with a really interesting idea the other day which kind of scares me a little bit. Though, Yeah, it's kind of great because she's a therapist. But yeah, I had an idea for Jane and I podcast to add some some spice to it some time, at some point in time, And I said, what if we if one of us has an issue that we want to discuss with one another, what if we even get as intimate and personal as we save that for the podcast. That way, you know, people hear us talk about what we do in situations, how we communicate, but then for them for people to listen to us real time and see how we handle it instead of it's easy to say it after the fact, Oh this is how I did it, and you know it's it sounds so simple, But then to be real time and really put ourselves out there in a situation that we have to discuss personally. Um, so that's something we're gonna do. I love this because you Yeah, I do, because it's so interesting because you have the tools when you're discussing a situation between the two of you, You've been given the tools where you can really communicate. And it's a great example to hear for people to hear that, because if he drops like a massive bomb on me, well, I think that there has to be some boundaries because I don't handle everything great. No, but that's part of it, right, Like what if one of us don't handle it right, we'll be authentic on here. It's okay, we don't have and but that's part of it too, is people to listen to. It's not all oh, thank you for sharing your feelings and this is how life. It's not all right or I'm sorry you feel that right between us. I guess the fireworks is what scares me because that's the stuff that traumatizing. That traumatizing me, that's the stuff that I get super triggered. So what if I see that you're reacting a certain way and you know, you storm and I don't like it? Scares me because sometimes we don't handle things great. Sometimes we don't say the right thing. Sometimes I get upset and I don't hear you out. Sometimes you don't hear me out. That happens on there. It's like, oh, then we're basically frauds. No, but that's that's just that we're not odds, because that's the thing. And when we have arguments yet you're still gonna get heated. You're not going to be in the best space or best place to hear handle things. But still that's a way to show people how you can still have fireworks in an argument but still not be disrespectful, not be hurtful, still respect each other, but still be strong. And maybe whatever you're feeling or thinking you're believing, that's okay. That's still another form of communicating in a healthy way. You guys just have to come up with a list of things in situations that are totally off the table. Yeah, I mean it's gonna be where, hey, I have something around this kind of topic. You okay if I bring it up. We're not going to discuss anything that right now, but are okay we bring it up for our experiment on the podcast. Yeah, that's respectful. I have said to you, I said, what is it you want to talk to me about? You're talking about? So what is it? I'm like, no, there's nothing. I just think you would be another level of depth on what we can offer people on how to community as opposed to again look looking like we have everything perfect and we communicate, you know, great every time. Where it's again that because you're we're not frauds, you're human, you're human, and that's okay. It is also I think that you don't say on Monday night, hey there's something I want to talk to you about next Monday. It has to be like the night before, not even that the way in I don't even think. I think it should just be right here because if not, I'm gonna say what about it? Because I'm gonna get defensive, because that's not going to be a real time because if you bring something up to me, my first is, well, why do you think that? And that's a pretty defensive response. Back. In general, I guess we can always cut it and saying if it was if it was about something that we don't feel comfortable, that's kind of breaking a personal boundary for one of us. Yeah, that we're like, hey, you know what I mean, like, okay, you ask a question. But we can cut it from the right. You can say I'm not comfortable with this, and we're going to leave for fifteen minutes and talk about this and we'll be right. There'll just hold it down. We'll just do all our spots coming right now, let's coming back in. Do we want to try this experiment next week? We please make up something? Well, I know, but I mean, are you planning on there being something that you need to bring up with me? No? But we we are. What do you up? We are skipping a couple of therapy, oh next week, so so we won't have it. Well, we're it's a couple of weeks later, so there might be something that comes up that they have to talk about. I know, sweetheart, but I'm just saying we might. Well, there might be something. There might be something. I mean, you're traveling and yeah, so something will come over. Okay, right, don't don't worry. Not nothing big. But I think, you know, I think it'll be good because I think it's it's a good way to practice not being defensive and people can hear how we work through issues, you know, pampered story after. I think it's great. I had someone DM me speaking about couples therapy, by the way, and she said, do not even know if you will see this. I got behind on your podcast because of life. I'm playing catch up with them now. I am not sure if this has been talked about marriage counseling. My husband I have been having issues lately. He really wants to go to counseling. But I see that as a step you take before it's over. Help. And I was to me, it's I don't think it's something where you it's a step before it's over. I think it's it's a step you should, personally, in my opinion, you should always take to continue to grow. Absolutely, I agree, there is nothing better and going into a room forty five minutes and somebody listening to you. It's amazing. It is the most incredible experience, isn't it. Because but the fact that her husband even wants to go, and she's the one that he's willy, he's willing to go. There's so many husbands out there that do not want to go to a couple of therapy. And I think it's I think it's important either. We we were just having this talk. We had went on a date night to see a stars but have you seen it? I went to the premier. The amount of two tears, I know, I'm already trying. I look over and Jenna is already trying. It's like the first song Lady Gaga's Things I'm like, this is like a happy person, but she's like living her dream out there. Like yeah, I mean I was. I was having a hard time, like not letting it out in hyperventilating. But we want to date now with a few of our friends. And we were just talking about marriage and in couples therapy, and you know, she said that we don't really have anything big, but I kind of want to go in and talk, and I think, I think that's that's what you should do. I do too. What do you think about couples who go to therapy before they're even married. I think it's awesome. I think it's great, right, I think it's really good. But great, Yeah, but that's because he cheated on me. Here's our first Oh yeah, I mean that, and we were taking the next step and I had moved down there, so I mean we knew we wanted to be together. Did that make you angry that I just said that, I'm trying to Yeah, I don't poke the bear. Um. I think that's well, it didn't make me because I think that's a big difference between me now and before. It's just yeah, I'm not hiding behind that shame and more right, But I think if you can go to a couple of therapy and be authentic, is that's that's the hugest thing, especially before you're married, when you're married, if you're having issues, if you're not having an issues, I know what I would love. I would love people that don't think they need therapy to go to therapy. Those people need therapy the most. Absolutely could not be a more truer statement. If they don't, if they're stuck in their ways, they're not going to be open mind. If you're not open minded to therapy, I mean, it's not gonna work. You're gonna be wasting your time and money. I went to couples therapy you did before you got divorced? And and how for how long we went? Well, we went for an initial couples therapy, and then she suggested that he go to individual therapy for a while before we could meet back together because we were at such different growth levels. Not her right, if she explained, because I had done a lot of work I had to when I was going to school. Then one day he came home from therapy and said, Uh, next week, I need for you to go to therapy with me because I'm stuck and I need for you to figure out how I get unstocked. He asked you that, yes, and I said, I can't do that because I'm not your therapist and I'm not you, right, and I can't be And that's when I knew, Yeah, that's pretty deep to know that that in that moment, you can't manage, you can't know. M hm uh isn't it great though? When you go into therapy. I love this personally when we sit with our couple's therapist and Mike, you know, I'm I'm, I'm He tells me. I'm like, well, thank you for sharing, and this is how I and and he just gets worked up and says all the wrong things and I'm just sitting there like, see this, Dan, this yet keep going, Mike, dig your graves, to dig my own grave and awesome because I'm like, this is exactly what I'm dealing with. Door number one. Validation is putting on you know, her cross legs, both teams, just perfect little teacher's pet. And I'm like, this is what I'm not dealing with at home. I did not get this at home, what you are seeing right now? No, no, no, I just try to handle it. You know, because I want him to be proud of even. Do you guys have therapy today? No, we had to reschedule it because I'm going on a town but for a couple of weeks. But I just I want I want our therapist to be proud of us because we've I mean, I really truly do think he is because about shoot, eight nine months ago, I walked in and said, I'm filing for divorce and you cannot change my mind. Wow, wow, and yeah, and he was just he looked at us and he was just like are you sure? And I am sure, Please bring him in. And you know, we sat there and you know, some other life stuff happened, and you know, here we are, but uh yeah it was I was we were done. But it's so nice to be able to now he's he just sits and I can see him like there's a little smile in his you know, a little eye and he's like, Okay, you guys are you guys have really worked? But you yeah, I was just going to say he handed over the tools, but you guys did the work. We've done all the work. I mean, he's you know, stood by us, and where he'd be like Mike, take a walk, take a walk. But most of the days it was Mike, why don't you go take a walk, because he gets you just get very heated. Yeah, he didn't defensive very quick. I don't know if that is that just a guy thing to get defensive off the bat FA I could say, so, yeah, I mean what am I answering for? Did he get defensive always? Always? I wonder if that is just a dude thing. I don't know, Hey, dudes, to the dudes listening, do you get defensive? And there's more of a tendency for yeah, for males to get defensive quicker. But you know, I think I think it's like all or nothing. It's either you're defensive or you're just so either that confident or that just don't care. Were just like all right whatever. We found out phone in Nick to see if our friend Nick, to see why Nick, what's going on with he loves couples therapy? We don't he loves that. That's awesome, Yeah, yeah, I think but anyone and we and we tell us two couples that we know and that we discussed because we're again we're very open about we don't hide the fact that we go to individual therapy, like we have no shame in We're talking to people and what do you got today? We got couples are off therapy or Chaine therapy. We don't care, and you know it's we just know how much it's helped us, So we would love to see it helps other relationships that we see. Even if you don't think you have a problem, it's just a safe place to discuss things. You know, So there's doesn't There isn't anything like you know, cobwebs that build resentment or anything like that. Hey, I have another d m um for Mike's perspective. I know it's a very sensitive subject, but I'd love to hear Mike's perspective miscarriage and how it affected him. Me and my fiance I have had four miscarriages this year and he's been really he's been. He's been a great support for me. But I feel like I'm not supporting him enough and I don't know how to. Um, I don't know, and I don't know how to. I've spoken to him and asked him, but he says he's fine. He has to love the podcast. Blah bla blah blah blah, I've never thought about that about the guy emotional the other side of that, she cares about yes, and she's asked and she's trying message. Um. Yeah. I was just talking to uh Greg the other day and him and his wife are trying to navicate and and so I was kind of coaching him through that stuff. So basically, as a guy, there is a tendency obviously where we feel forgotten in the process, right because the women, it's their body, it's their hormones, it's y'all's emotions and and everything. But it takes two to tango, and we're part of it too. And I think what's difficult around the miscarriage aspect is because, at least from my experience with Janna, the women take it so personally that it's their fault that there's a miscarriage. It's their fault that they did something wrong. They weren't meant that like it's just all about like they just feel like it's their fault. So it's hard. It's difficult for us to really make it about ourselves in any way when we we we don't have that that physical feeling of that it could possibly be our fault because like women do like that you have this that that natural guilt that comes up again in my experience. So for us to express any of our feelings of loss, it feels very selfish. So naturally we just want to be like, no, it's not your fault, it's nothing you did, and just and be empathetic and compassionate towards our significant others that are you know, that lost the child. But yeah, I mean it's hard, it's it's nice too, at least to be validated once and and Janna did this, especially with the last time. You know, she validated me and was like, you know that this is your loss too. And so I don't think we need a lot. I think we just it's just one of those things you recognize and that's okay. We don't need any more than just an understanding from our spouse that hey, like, what are you feeling? And honestly that will help too, And what's I think. I can't speak for Janna, but I think what has helped, what helped us with the last miscarriage was being able to grieve together because she knew what I was feeling. That helps. So you don't you think him saying he's fine, he means he's fine. No, I don't did it say, did he express any anything? Yeah, she said, She's been trying to ask him, but he said, and he's like, no, I'm fine, Like, how does it affect you? How does it affect me? I think that's exactly what he's trying to put on a facade for her to be tough and be strong for her so she can have this latitude to have these emotions when really, like you said, Jane, it seems like she's reaching out and wanting to know that he shares the same feeling of loss, the same pain that she does grieving. In grieving yea, which in my experience, we do. But again it's just a natural thing to put up a wall, so we don't because not yours. I understand that. So we're not going to be in the corner like just bawling and spin and stuff when it's not our body. There's still but it's not just your body. We lost a baby, right, but but just the physical aspect of it, there's something to be said for that. Yeah, but you still feel the loss of Okay, are our baby past? Oh, there's no question, no question. So I think so hard it's okay for the husbands to open up about that, because I think it's just it's beneficial for you guys. I think it's Yeah. I hope that he can grieve into any of the guys listening in wives too that want that, because I needed to have that. Like last one of the miscarriages, I didn't want anything to do with them, and I didn't talk to him because I just felt I just isolated, went inside. Yeah, and it was awful and it was not fair to him. This last time we miscarried. I needed that grieving because I thought we were done and I thought, you know, this is our last embryo, our bull, this is our boy. So I needed that like comfort. You needed to feel loved and and you needed him to comfort you, especially with that being kind of our safety net because we had that embryo for the last two and a half years, where through other miscarriages were like, Okay, well we have this, but we have that, you know, we had that safety net of that you know, embryo. Jen question for you because I and this is for you too, Mike, but from a girl's perspective, when you find out you're pregnant, do you think we should wait to tell I understand there's the risk, but then you have the risk of miscarrying alone, and then nobody knows. So why why can't we just yes, there's always going to be a risk, But why can't we from day one say because if not all these women who are having miscarriages are doing it alone because they ended silent. Exactly, they don't No one knows they miscarried. No one knows that they heard the heartbeat and then the baby was lost. Like, why can't we be like, we're pregnant and and get a whole team and if if it doesn't and you end up miscarrying, which again it's so common, but then you have people there for the system if now there's no one there for you. I agree, Yeah, so why did we Why are we waiting until three or four months? Because it's it's a half glass empty mentality, right, But then in your suffering and silence, in silence because nobody knew, I told people who were close to me. I found out I was pregnant. I was less than two weeks and there are I mean, there weren't even there wasn't even a heartbeat really, and it was just my hormones were fluctuating so I had to keep going in and being tested. They actually thought I was having a miscarriage um because we're all of the signs of that, and then all of a sudden there was a heartbeat. Wow, And so I started to tell people. Plus I was older, so I felt comfortable telling certain people people in my family. What how how soon after you guys find out you're pregnant do you go to your O B it's six or seven weeks is when you go for your six six, six to eight. But yeah, we we we've always gone between the six and seven mark. And then twelve is when they say to tell people, right right, right, I think, but we've we've heard heartbeats at seven and then we've lost Yeah, I think, is it shouldn't be day one the first time you piano steak and you get a line. No, but a heck of a lot sooner. Absolutely, I definitely agree with you on that. So to avoid that feeling silent, I had a friend recently who was five weeks pregnant. She told me when she was five weeks, which I thought was really smart of her, because then I'm checking on her, asking her how she's feeling, how's everything going, and She built a support system system around her so that she could go through this with other people, and it is sad to have to. You know, when we do miscarry, it's like, hey, can you just text the family because I don't want to have to text everyone saying lost the baby. We lost the baby. And I understand maybe people not wanting that that might be a big part of it. I think it is. It's facing it and having to tell people right, which is awful, but then isn't to me, it's worth facing it alone, right, like just like staying in bed all day, all alone and on Instagram trying to pretend like I'm happy, but I actually just faing miscarried. You know, oh no, sorry freaking miscarried. So you know, it's I get so I get both sides of it. But for me to the feeling of being alone and not having someone is worse for me. So I guess it's like your own personal preference. But if you, if you, if I throw it out there, let's have let's see how people. Yeah, yeah, let's see how people feel. There's definitely a good question. But like Jen said, I think that's a great thing is if you if you build just at least a small support system close the people closest to you that you really it could be your parents, but maybe it's not because you don't want your parents to be like there's a first child. It's like, you know, you have these overbearing parents that get super excited to be grandparents, and maybe you don't want to deal with all those questions every day, especially if this thing happens, you know, if that unfortunate event happens. So but at least build some kind of small and don't feel hesitant to build that important You have permission. And if you guys have any stories about waiting versus not waiting, email us at Janna Cramer at heart media dot com. I have a great email. I have to spots by the way. Okay, so I'm really excited because the fab Fit Fund editors Fall Box is here. It's fantastic. Fabfit Fund is a seasonal subscription box delivered four times a year with full size fashion, beauty, home, fitness, wellness products for just box. I I honestly love it. For me, it's Christmas. I I love getting things from my house. I love getting candles. Um, there's an awesome I'm ask in this Fall Box there's an enzyme peel, which I'm gonna love. There's Crown Brush, six piece brush set from makeup. And Michael always makes fun of me because he's like, your fat fit Fun box here, and I'm like, yeah, I was just gonna say that, you know, besides this being a spot, this is a real deal because we constantly, for years now have been getting these fat Fit Fund boxes. So clearly for Janna to continue to be a subscriber means that she really loves it. So I really did. And and and the other day you said, oh, honey, like those dish towels. I was like thanks, And you thought that I bought them. They're fait fun stop fun box, you know. So sign up for fat Fit Fund today to get your Fall editor's box. The fat Fit Fund fall editors boxes in limited supply and these boxes always sell out. Use my code Janna to get ten dollars off your first box. Go to fab fit Fun dot com to sign up and start getting the box. For a life well lived. Use promo code Janna to get ten dollars off your first box that's over two for only thirty nine. Go to fab fit fund dot com and use my cod Janna to get ten dollars off. Um, Jen, you were just saying that you need stamps. I do. I'm out of stamps every time I have a letter that a very important letter that needs to go out, and it's sitting on my dashboard in my current it has been for three or four days now because I keep saying, oh, I'm going to stop and get stamps. Well, let me tell you. With stamps dot com you can access all the amazing services of the post Office right from your desk. You're on your laptop, so go on to stamps dot com. Um. But you can buy in print official US postage for any letter, any package, using your own computer and printers. So this is great for small business owners, for people that just have a really busy life, for moms, and anyone honestly that just wants to save a little bit of time. It's just click print mail and you're done. It could not be easier. And again, if you're sending up packages, they also send you a scale, which is great. So right now, use Janna for this special offer. It includes up to fifty five dollars free postage, a digital scale, and a four trial. Go to stamps dot com before you do anything else, click on the radio microphone at the top of the homepage and type in Janna at stamps dot com. Enter Janna. Hey, um, you have an email you want to read. I do so. This was from our actually our have a seat with Janna Mike at gmail dot com. But I thought it was pretty interesting because it's a different perspective. So I'll keep this anonymous or do we say first name? Let's do it hot. Okay, So the email is, we always hear about Mike's flaws and mistakes. I would love to hear from Mike's perspective what Janna has gender. Sorry, I was here about mike flaws mistakes. I'd like to hear how great he is. That's where I thought I was gonna go, like, Darling, you're so before you even laugh about this, I have the same thing, Jenn, Well, yeah, how I was like, let's just tell all Mike's attributes, right, and then I thought, ask, can we hear about Janna's flaws? And I didn't even think, oh wait, there's more. Okay, this podcast is Mike's great, Alright, let's hear it anyway. We always hear about Mike's flaws and mistakes. I would love to hear from Mike's perspective what Janna has done to create his behaviors in the past, to help women understand how to create a safer environment for their husband as well. Usually men make mistakes based on behaviors too. I'd like to see Janna open up about her flaws. Thank you. Now, did you email him back and say, I'm sorry, my wife has zero flaws. Yes, first of all, my wife is perfect and has zero no. But my whole reason that one stuck out to me because because he wanted me to well know, I appreciate not that I want you to talk about flaws. I appreciate her willingness to want to understand her husband more and to and to clean up her side of the street, as I say in the therapy world, as you mentioned. So for for me, from my perspective, it's it's not about what like Jane does or or what anyone else does in your life, because you're responsible for your own actions, right, And that's what I've learned through a lot of this process, is that regardless of anything, I'm responsible for my own actions in the same situation here, but by being more open, by being validating and being soft with your partner, whether male or female, and inviting them to share feelings about something and really asking, you know, what they need. It just opens that line of communication to maybe avoid things that maybe I did in the past because I didn't feel like dealing with because we didn't talk about not saying as Jana's fault, but that's my fault also. But again, as men were naturally not as communicative as women and don't want to talk about feelings as much as you guys. So if that was something where those lines of communication were more open and it felt like a safe place, That's really the only thing I have to say around kind of that email is just to invite your significant other, your your husband to meet you there m hm, your face, Jannah says, says everything no, no, totally no no no, no, no no, And like theraposess, there's no butt. And I mean, obviously we all have flaws, and I think one of my biggest flaws is also something that is hard because in the beginning, one of my flaws was I just blamed him for how I was feeling because of what he did. So I lived with that longer than I should. So that's a flaw. So I lived with you know, well, I'm feeling this way because you did this and you did that and you ruined this and so. But then it then you have to kind of look at the mirror and go, Okay, it's time to do my work. How long am I going to keep like pointing a finger and playing blame game? So that was definitely a flaw. And then I think another flaw too is knowing And then for women out there to your husband does, like you said, your husband does have feelings and being able to invite the husband to talk to you. And sometimes we only get stuck in our own flaws, in our own feelings, right because you can only you can't control other people's actions, only your reaction, and you guys know that. And if you're stuck on the action, you're stuck in your head and your you are you're playing like the blame game forever and you'll never get past that. And by the way, perfect is boring. Oh yeah, and no relationship is perfect. And also being um being invited to the sense of you know, asking for what you need, but also asking your partner for what they need, right, like going up to your husband again, just mistake of this email. It's the example, but going up to your husband and saying, do you need anything for me? Yeah? It's so simple, it sounds it could be a physical thing, it could be whatever. It could be a task, uld be anything. Do you need anything for me? He might say, no, okay, I just want to check. Oh, you know what we should do? That should be channeling the challenge this week because so last week will strike. This challenge should be so for all the wives listening right now, wives, girlfriends, go up to your partner, maile listeners to however many mail listeners where you at go up to your significant other whatever, whoever they may be, and so, yeah, what do you need anything for me? It's a really beautiful gesture. And I would love for them to email Jannet Kramer at I heart media dot com just to see what their response was. Reaction was what the reaction was, Hey, do you need anything for me this week? Or the looks for confusion? Imagine what keep your iPhone or not your iPhone? Keep your take a picture. We want to see the face. I love that though. I think that's it's a good challenge challenge of the week. We should do that. Every week, we should do a challenge of the week. I love that. So then it's going to help build a relationship. That's going to help people people in their relationships. Besides the tool last week of going on strike. Hey, sometimes you have to go on star sometimes you do, speaking of you, but yeah, let's challenge. Let's do a relationship challenge every week. I like it too. I do too. Hey, honey, what do you what do you need from me? Is there anything you need from me? You guys, wait to get home to do that. Okay, Um, speaking of going on strike? Do you ever feel like you're totally failing as a mom? How many times? I mean, do you read to Julie every night? Do you read one book? Two books, three books? No books? Sometimes I feel bad when I just read one book, like I'm not a good enough mom for just reading one book. And sometimes I start, yeah, he always reads two or more, but I didn't. But sometimes I feel terrible because I'll skip pages because I'm just tired, or just put her to bed, so I'll abbreviate this story doesn't make sense. I abbreviate the story and I skip pages. The princess and the end there were just five little pumpkins. How can there be too? I know, but I right now like I don't think she gets enough to know that them. I know, but but that That's an example of how sometimes I feel like I'm not good enough mom because because I I'm skipping time like that, right, So I just just want to put her to bed, I know. And I was the same way when Rocco was that age. But I did read to him a lot, and I just got an email. You know, he's in first right now, and I just got an email that he's not hitting his benchmark and reading. And I was horrified, horrified. I was like, how can how can my kid not be reading? I was reading it for although he is really good at math, I can't even he asked me math questions sometimes and I'm like, wait, where is the calculator? Try, I'll be counting on my hands. I'm going to teach Janna and Jeley math at the same time. Okay, so what are you gonna do? So I went to Burns and Nobles and I have got all kinds of flash cards for I mean, I went crazy book books, flash cards, all kinds of books, more books, more books, more books. Get the teacher make you feel like you're a bad mom, or did you make yourself feel like I just took it personal. I was you know, you get an email like that and it's like, oh my god, what what do you mean? I'm not doing enough at home? So then I enlisted, right, Yeah, So now I'm ubering my mom over once a week as well. She's coming actually coming over tonight because she was a special education teacher and a principle and you know, administrator, and I feel like she has the tools, like if anybody can do it, she can do it. So now once a week she's going to putty mom to work. Because he just not enjoy reading. He has fun. I think he gets frustrated. He gets frustrated, and we need to build this confidence. I don't think he's you know, confident enough when it comes to it. And which brings me to another issue is last night he said, I mean he's six, and he said I'm popular, and I went, uh, really wow, I said, what does that mean? I wanted to see what he has popular? He said, well, everybody likes to play with me, everyone likes to talk to me. Everybody thinks I'm cute. And I was like hold on though, right, I think it's good. But I also it left me with sort of an icky feeling because I started thinking, are there other first graders who are six year old who don't feel popular, who don't feel And I just felt really sad, and I'm just wondering, is this one it starts. I'm scared of that. For no, kids that age should feel popular, not popular. They should all feel popular in a sense. They should all feel good. They're all friends and they're six year olds. They should be playing and having fun with everyone. Well where do they think that that you guys like as parents, Where do they learn popularity from? It's a really good question, Yeah it is. I don't know. I think it's at school. I would imagine any TV too, TV. Probably television. Again, I don't know. The popularity thing scares me because I gotta tell you, I mean I wasn't. I was very nice middle school on but in elementary school, I don't think I was very nice to this one Canva bus and I that's the thing. I don't know. I've looked him up on Facebook because I kind of wanted to apologize. I felt bad I would make fun of him because the other kids are making fun of him. So that scares me for when Jolie jumps on that band bandwagon. And here's the thing, if she if someone knows that she's doing it, I want that person to come tell me because that is the one thing that I will lose my marble if they find out they were picking on other kids. Because that's one thing I take very a lot of pride in is I never did that. You didn't never did. And I can go back to grade school. I was never one to pick on kids. I always wanted to protect to an extent. So that's something to me that I just there's zero tolerance, zero place for or you know, raising our kids. That's awesome, that is well. And that's crazy because I still remember I mean I was never bullied or anything, but I can still remember the comments that I would get from like an elementary school. I'm like, how do I remember that? Because it's so hurtful. Yeah, because he was like, oh, like you're a whale or something. And I'm sure it was just like being funny or whatever. But I obviously I'm like almost six ft tall, Like I'm like, I was full grown by like second grade, so like just put those words like I'm not I don't hold it in my own heart, like I'm not defined by his words, but like I still remember that. And I was in elementary school in sixth grade. I got like a little chubby at the beginning of the year in Tony Dzelia in sixth grade called me chubby, and I can still I'm still in that moment sometimes where I can see his face and hear him saying it. Bobby was mine in sixth grade. He took a binder and he goes, that's your chest. He laughed that. I've never forgotten that. He slapped on his binder, put his hand across and said, that's your chest. I was in sixth grade. That's awful. Sixth grade. Yeah, and you're laughing. Where's Bobby now? Well, it's creative bites. Is just the the other one? Yeah, I've never heard that story, you know, Yeah, but it's been something. But it's we remember our Did you not have the name? Name? And memory? Me too? Where I was everything? Everything? I know exactly where I was in the classroom. Are you in elementary school eleven? Well? I was. I was sixth grade, but I mean elementary school. It's scary sixth grade is eleven eleven, But where are they learning these from? That's what I want to know, Like when did I realize what popularity was? And I was never popular? Like I was always in like a world that was advanced, but I don't think I ever really knew it popularity. I always know like maybe I wasn't popular, but like I was friends with everyone. I could hang out with the popular people and then I would walk down and hang out with my favorite skaters or you know, musician or you know whatever. I I was the again in fifth grade, I kind of went with went with the crowd and I was mean to that one kid and I still feel bad. But sixth grade on I did. I never bullied anyone, and it was always Lisa was the Lisa was the pretty girl, she was the popular one, and I was kind of just her friend, the friend, the sidekick. But then senior year, I was voted most likely to end up on the cover of Glamour and look what happened, and that's sprouted. No, but I was never a pop I wasn't I wasn't the sports player. I wasn't the athlete, right, I just was kind of it was just nice to everybody but bully scare me, and I'm so scared for that. I'm so I pray that she's not a bully or being bullied. But having said that, though, Michael, you made a really good point the other day you nick talked about, didn't you. I don't know who I talked about with, but basically I kind of got this from Chris Rock did a stand up special on Netflix recently and he talked about bulliest this bit on bullys and it was really funny, but there's a lot of truth to it too, where you know, the world is filled with a holes, the world is filled with bullies. If you go all through the beginning of your life not facing some kind of adversity from a bully, then what are you going to do when you're an adult and you see that for the first time at your first job or something like that, and you don't know how to handle yourself with that adversity. It's not that bullying, We're not You're not saying bullying is okay. It's just that sometimes you gotta have some thick skin, you gotta grows, you gotta learn how to stick up for yourself. So is is bullying all bad? It depends. Sometimes you need to have some thick skin. You have to learn how to stick up for yourself because when you do go into the yourt our your adult life, and you have to fight for yourself or hard, and it's gonna be bullies. Scary. Adverse effect to that is making sure that if kids are being bull late, that they're not seeking validation in an unhealthy way, which creates terrible habits, which late could lead to addictive personalities, which could who knows you're ready to be a therapist signing out. I've had enough therapy for a lifetime. So hey, Jen, you're into You're into stocks and all that, aren't you recently about? Have you heard of robin Hood? You know it's pretty interesting. I've recently gotten into it too. But it's an investing app that lets you buy and sell stocks, options, cryptos, all commission free. Wait what, you don't take anything nothing? This is incredible because there's always a transaction fee. Yeah, and then my business manager is getting Yes, robin is our new business. Fans. I love, I love the name the robin Hood. Yeah, it's amazing. Exactly. Take from the other brokerages charge up to what ten dollars for every trade. Yeah, around that. And that's the thing. There's no cost, no commission fees exactly. Other broker just charge up the ten dollars like you just said, honey. And the the user experience with it, I got on. It is very easy to use, very simple, especially for a novice you kind of person like me getting into that investment world. It's been fantastic. Like what to like what they give you tips? Yea, even even if you don't know, like I don't know all the stocks out there, you know, they give you a list of the hundred most popular sectors like entertainment, social media, depending on what your interest is and what you want to get into, which you can build your portfolio exactly, even categories like female CEOs. And it's a great time to invest right now, is it? It is? I thought the market was plumbing. Good time to buy Bye bye bye. I mean that's what I hear. You know, what's awesome to robin Hood is giving listeners a free stock like Apple, Forward, Sprint to help build your portfolio. So now sign up at robin hood dot com wind down dot robin hood dot com. That's wind down dot robin hood dot com. Go there your free stock to get your portfolio going and start investing for free. Wind Down. That rab that's really cool. I love the name, the names brilliant. I love that you guys are listening to wind Down. But also I want to tell you guys about another I Heart Radio podcast with twenty three and me where they explore all things DNA and how we are all nine genetically alike post Bartunda Thurston sits down with the biggest artist including John Legend and Posner, as well as influencers of our time to talk about how the world of genetic testing is changing who we are and the world among us. So they explore variety of important topics such as how science stacks up against the stories we've been told, how much nature versus nurture impacts who we've become. So it's really cool. It's called Spit. So make sure to check out full episodes now on the Heart Radio app or wherever you listen to podcasts. Okay, so this was fun. I'm really glad that we had this. We've had a lot of discussions. I've got a lot of things, a lot of good talks today and I'm really interested to see what you guys thought too of today's show and any feedback from the challenge that we gave you this week, and also if you have any any other stories you'd like to share or tips and tricks ticks and tips and tricks for reading Janna Kramer at I heeart Media dot com. UM just a huge thank you to everyone thinks the threat up, Hello fresh uh stamps dot com, Fat Fun, Robin Hood and twenty three and me. You guys are awesome and just remember too for this week's relational weekly challenge, go to your partner and ask them what they need. I love it, I'm on it. I'm excited to wind down next week. Who by