Swine Down with Jane Kramer and I Heart Radio podcast. Okay, so last week was interesting. A lot of stuff came out in the press. Um, I feel like INSI had this one girl DM me and she's like, can y'all just stop talking about things that the press will grab because I'm so sick of defending y'all. And I was like, I'm so sorry, I know, but I'm just like, our podcast is about relationships, and I just feel like it's important to, you know, talk about things that come up and ways that we handle it. And she was just She's like, no, I totally get it. She's like, it's just the people that I don't know us just kind of read a headline and when they hear like, oh Mike cheated again, they don't actually click on it two to read the article. So it's you know, I had a few people reach out, um, did you did you have any like friends reach out? I had an old sister in law reach out, and then I had I had two people just check in with me and say, is everything okay? I heard the news or I saw an article. I wanted to make sure it wasn't true. And I was like, and it's like you know people are you know also will say, well, you know, we're just trying to get attention, or you know, they'll say like enough of them already, like this is just all for money and all for show, and show me the show the money. If it's all out the money, I think it's just one of those things where you know, we've and it's kind of the same thing when people ask us about our book, like why why do we talk about all this stuff? And you know, it's we know that it's helping people. We know that there's certain things that we talk about that it helps people, and that group of people we are doing this for because the other people aren't going to get us. They're not going to like us, they haven't liked us, they'll never like us. And I'm kind of just I'm now just okay with it. And usually I feel like I would come to the defense or be like no, no, no, no no, but it's like whatever they're going to believe that they're going to believe. We know our truth, we know our story, and it's kind of it is what it is. But um, we are excited to get Sharie. She's been on our show before. She's kind of like an all in one thing from Life Coast Life Coach therapist. She's just motivator, motivator, So we're gonna get her on the show. I'm really excited to talk to her again because it's been a while. And yeah, I don't know. I mean, how do you feel about everything, bab. I mean, it's one of those things you kind of hit it all on the head. It's at this point I am getting better at not paying attention to any of that kind of noise. And it's just like, okay, because we just know the truth and I'm farther out of my shame. We're closer together with our connection and trust on things. So just people are clickbait man. People are gonna see the things, and unfortunately people are drawn to negative news rather than positive. I feel like, so, I mean, it is what it is. People can think what they want, and even before stuff like this comes out, people still say, I give him five years, She's gonna yeah, press Hilton goes, I see Chloe, I see like this is Chloe and interest in two years. I'm calling it. Oh geez. But um, I don't know, do you have any regrets because of the things that come out and that we do talk about about sharing so publicly about everything. I mean yes and no, sure would it be great just to live our private life, our personal life privately and not worry about all these people having opinions, whether positive or negative. And you know, people writing articles that aren't true or make creating headlines that just for attention or clickbait. I mean, yeah, that gets old and it gets frustrating when it's about your personal life. But on the other hand, the people that we've connected with and the people that have reached out to us and the people close to us, the benefit that we see firsthand from what we've talked about, what we've shared completely outweighs the negative. You know, the fact that, like the guy that I had lunch with a week or so ago, and just for people being willing to open up to me, man to man about things, I'm like, this is why we did it for me. I was like, this is this is more connectedness than than I could ever think of from a someone who was a stranger. So again, the fact, I mean, you've seen the the amount of people that have and men that have opened up to me or to us, or couples that have opened opened up to us around this stuff. So it's just that outweighs all the negative for me. Yeah that's good. Yeah. Okay, Well we have um Shari in the waiting room right now, so let's get her in and chat about all things in relationships. Hey, Shari, how are you? Hey Mike, it's great to see you guys. Good to see you all too. Okay, sure, how has been for you? Oh boy? It has been like surfing. Yeah, especially with your you know, your background because you're a life coach, therapist kind of all in one everything. So has it just been exploding? Yeah? Yeah, I think I think we have. I have been saying to the people who do the work that I do, like we were made for these times. We clearly have been preparing for this moment um because it's been a rocky ride for me, and I've got a lot of tools, you know, So I feel like, um, I am hopeful that uh, these waves are making us do the inner work. Everybody, when you say that, you know you've obviously, because we've all experienced and had our own challenges along the way. For someone who is supposed to be so um uplifting and encouraging and um helpful when you face your own kind of inner demons, because I know sometimes with Mike and I when we aren't communicating good, but I'm like, but we wrote about it and we say to do this, but we're not doing it. And but then with you too, where it's like, if you feel depressed and you don't know how to lift yourself up, do you kind of get more harder on yourself? Oh? For sure there are times. Well I would say more when I was a little younger, because I think I've been around the block now well enough to know that we have to be working our own our own wisdom, our own tools always. And I'm really clear about that with people. I maybe you know a couple of steps ahead sometimes than somebody else, or have been through, you know, a particular challenge and use the tools more. But anybody who says that they've got it all dialed, you know, who who don't use their own walk, their own talk, you know that I'd be a little bit cautious about, you know for sure. And so I think what I know I need is perspective. I need. I need my people. You can have all the tools in the world, but it's it's sometimes very hard to do it alone and so this this time has had me just really um nurture relationships and spend more time, you know, on the lovely screen. Unfortunately with the people that roote me, who you know, reflect back to me my own humanity and make it easier because yeah, I think we all go a little bit crazy, were sort of in our own heads trying to be perfect at all this. I think that's a great point for you know, I make up. I know I'm this way is try to do so many things on my own right when it's like we don't have to, you know, and so many people want to just struggle, like no one's gotten to where they've gotten without help, you know, and whether it's directly or indirectly, So especially in these times, I think that's a great point for our listeners to kind of hold on to and sharia. You know, you're also titled as a let me see if I can say it correctly, possibilitarian Yeah right, military, But she said, can you can you give myself and our listeners kind of a synopsis of what that and that you know what that title means. Yeah, I mean I'm technically called like the founder of the Luminaries or a board certified coach, all those you know titles that feel um more traditional, But I think the possibilitarian title came in at a certain point where I just said, look at the bottom, you know, the bottom line the end of the day, I am here to do what I do because I believe that anything is possible. I will stop at nothing to get you what you want and and to answer the big questions that I think people get stuck with in life, like who am I and what am I here to do? The big questions? And I think ultimately we are infinitely free and powerful beyond our understanding, and we're not told that by our culture, by our parents unless we're really lucky. And my job is to come in and hold up like a big mirror and just be like, look, you are the universe, you are everything, and you are capable of everything. It's just maybe that you don't believe that, or you don't exactly know how to go about it. And and that's where I come in. I think I have just a weird um way of getting just creative enough to overcome any obstacle you know on that topic is there? You know, because I understand just from talking to people, friends, family, whatever, you know. I feel like everyone at some point in their life has a crossroads where it's like, should I stay in the career, the job that I'm in, or should I take this unknown leap into something completely different or new that you know, someone has an opportunity. And is there ever a time that you've worked with somebody that you're like, no, don't take that chance. Mm hmm, wow, No, probably not. What I and I never even look at crossroads like that is binary, like there's a black or white, a wright or wrong. There's always a multitude of ways, right. So let's say, the only thing that I can think about in a particular scenario like that where I would advise somebody to wait a minute, would be if taking the leap caused enormous amounts of stress financially, you know, if it would put if it would cause harm anxiety in a way that was unbearable, then I would say, let's stay with enough certainty at the current job or in the current relationship to continue to figure out what the next move is to plot out, you know, and and be in kind of a hybrid scenario where we use the the certainty and the safety of the current situation to strategize what next and not make an immediate leap, because that that's true for some people, you know, they can't give up like the golden handcuffs, that the great check, the paycheck whatever to go for the dream job. But no, I mean that life is short. I will always help people live the dream. What if it's one of those things though, we're you know, they want to be a singer, but their tone deaf, you know where it's like that's the reason you ain't out its sister, sorry, Like do you do you kind of go, well, maybe you should, you know, it's like how do you when when it's like, because there are there has to be those because I'm like, I have to think that we're going to be those parents that not discourage. But if we're like, hey, honey, like your tone deaf, let's try to get maybe lessons, but you know, do you want to try soccer or you know, like how do you how do you do that? When you're just like, ah, that's tough because I don't know many people that can get over being tone deaf. I don't know. But see that's where maybe the possibilitarian and make kicks in because I'm like all right, well, we just need to go to the top. You know, we need to find the person who will absolutely crack you open and and you'll have that experience. Now what if that I mean, I don't know if the person didn't like make it you know at the full time, get go professional, because we know that career is a hard one. They should still sing, oh the goddamn time. I would be like, you need to go karaoke, you need to have band, you need to have friends. Are really you need to do all that? Because clearly I believe if we have desires, even if they're not matched with talent, the desires are and us for a reason. They're they're pointing us in the direction of the life we're supposed to have. So I would say, you know, follow that joy you in whatever way. But yeah, there is refinement. So if they were hell bent on being a professional, then we would scale up. So is there in your experience have you worked with someone that maybe it's not as black and white like that, like either you can sing, you you can't, but maybe someone wants to get go into a certain direction in the does any realistic part of you come out and be like, hmmm, just knowing what you know about them, it might not be the best, and you steer them maybe in a similar but different direction. I don't know. Yeah, there's the whole discovery process that I go through where I dig deep into someone's soul, you know, really through a process of asking great questions and opening up this kind of liminal space to just remember what you already know. Can we try that right now? Can you do that with Mike? We don'tally we can start it. I mean it takes some time, you know, let's dig deep in that soul, baby, But I feel like he needs we need to dig deep in this one. Let's just try. Can we try? Are you at a career cross roads? Is that what we're looking at? I don't know. You tell me. I think Janitor just wants to keep me busy. Do you do? You say sometimes that you don't. You might question your what you're go get them? So maybe it's not, because maybe that means you're not passionate in it. I think. Okay. So for me, I came from a career that was everything was scheduled for me. I was regimented every I mean every hour, every minute, every day. And then when I transitioned that. I mean, that was my entire life with athletics and you know, in college and professionally and then getting out of that. You know, there was a challenge trying to find that. I think now it's still I mean, Janna and I do a lot of things together. Obviously we do this. We had the book. You know, there's other projects we want to work on, both together and individually. But there's I don't I don't know if I have that thing right now that I wake up every morning that motivates me to work on, you know what I mean. I'm not waking up like Janna. She's a creator. It's unbelievable. She I think, it's like every other day she throws an idea at me, She's like, would this beginn on Shark Tank? And then just lets it out, you know what I mean, Like, and I feel bad because I'm the realist and I just have to like shut it down. I'll negate it with something well that already exists or this would happen or whatever. She's the dreamer and I love her for it. And you know, I feel bad sometimes because I don't have that imagination or that creativeness as much as she does, and I'll say too, because there are things that I want to do with him. I don't get that and like that energy from him. So in my mind, I'm like, all right, he clearly doesn't want to do this because he's not following up with it. I've said it ten times, and I mean, so I have that. Okay, Well I'm gonna then veer a different way and go a different way because I don't think he's passionate about that, and that's fine, but I just wish he would tell me kind of. I guess it's like the drive is like you're missing, which makes me I make up that you might not be passionate about it, and so it's like where where do we Where do we ignite the drive? Like how can we find something that des ignite you that you do get excited about instead of just like we have to go in the office and write, you know, or see something. Oh no, no, I know you were, but again it took flight to the fire and that stresses me out. So dealing with him like this is our schedule, let's do it, like this week we do this, and this week we edit and this new this chapter. And it was like, hey, wait, two months left, and I'm like, what do you do? Like, we gotta go man like and then he's like and he's like, now I'll work and I'm like, huh yeah, why did you say, Mike, you worked better on what under pressure? Under pressure? Well? Yeah, this is what I want to go back to, is when when you were highly scheduled did you love that? Um? Yeah, because I knew what my day looked like. There wasn't any It was just you got me out of my own way of justifying a rationalizing no I know it later, I'll do it, you know tomorrow. Oh it's not that important, and there's my job and I'll get fined if I didn't go. So you know that that helped motivate me as well. But yeah, yeah, yeah, So there are a couple of things coming up for me that you know, when I when I talk about ultimate career strategy with people like what would have you be? I think where you are Janna like lit up passionate about something like fully on fire? Being in your creator is you have to know what your essence is, like the essence of you, the gift of you, like the thing that is just uniquely you, and go where you'll be used for that. So I don't know that you've found that yet. You know that you could and and or even when Janna brings you an idea and says, let's get really excited about this, and you are, but the role that you're supposed to play is still not clear, like what you actually have to do? Do you know? And there could be I mean, as an entrepreneur, I know there's a lot of things that I have to do that I don't particularly love, that aren't my essence, that just come with the territory. So that needs to be sorted out. And you may just get on board with an idea and still put up with some of that dragging your feet a little bit because it's just not it's not your ultimate joy. But I think I think it'd be interesting to see, like what is the thing that's uniquely you that you want to go for, whether or not it might be a shared project with you Janna. I don't know, because right now it just doesn't feel like anything is totally calling you. And that's nothing to feel bad about. We lose our mojo or motivation all the time when when we're not on a clear path where we're not aligned with what we're here for, you know, And I've always told him to like I've always been the like, I would love to do this with you, but if you don't want to do this, like because I know he really wanted to go in law enforcement, and we've talked about a few times on the show, and you know he wanted to, but it's the kind of that thing where it's like he was like, nah, like this is easier, or you know, like I know you've got a real estate license, but you haven't really worked on it. So it's just it's one of those things where I'm like, and that's okay. If that's not your passion, then let's then then don't do it. But you put these things out there and then you don't, you don't go through it. And so but I want to be your supporter, Like I want to be like, Okay, what am I going to support you on? Is it the real estate? Is it our projects? Is it you know, is it's law enforcement? Like what is it that like will ignite you and excite you to want to get out there and do it? Yeah. I think what what's coming up for me is because because of my my background of just being so scheduled and it was non negotiable right like, it wasn't like the time may change. It was that's the time you're doing something period. I mean, I can schedule you. You know, that's my dream. My dream is any time we ever lose a bet, I'm like my dream and what I would do it's not a it's not an hour massage or whatever. Or I would love to schedule his week like it would just give me and you know what would be, It would be like he gets to work out from this time to this time. He could you know whatever, goal plays golf on Tuesdays and then we do a It's like I would it would give me so much joy. And I'm like, and I feel like he would be happier because I know you love schedules. Again, what comes up? I agree, I agree, I concur What comes up for me is because of things that we do do there there is a changing of schedules at times. Sometimes you'll have things that change. Sometimes you'll have to do this at this time instead and this time and this time. So hey, actually this got moved. So can you watch the kids now? So I can do this? And for me, it gives me so much anxiety, even though it's a normal question. But it just does because I come from that background. Just schedule, schedule, schedule. If I schedule something and it has to change, yeah, like and then I take it personal, like my doesn't matter. Yeah you know what I mean. I mean, we just had that argument yesterday. I don't even remember remember this morning lit alone yesterday. Well it was about that where it's like your time and you felt taken advantage of correct correct, and so what how I'm so sorry. Yeah, And Jane is so good at at you know, when it comes to work stuff, she's so good at being more flexible or like her schedule of her day. It's just I have such a hard time. So my fear is that if I say, hey, you know, I want to work out from nine to ten, then from ten thirty to studying my real estate stuff, and then from this time this time. But it's like it's not realistic because we don't have full time help with the kids that go to school twice a week. We have a babysitter once a week, but we're around the kids all the time. We have stuff to do, we have you know, podcast stuff. Isn't like every Tuesday at this time we do it. That's every changing. Um, you know, stuff that she has to to post or do whatever is Hey, I gotta do this real quick handle the kids. Yes, of course and so but if I just sense your anxiety just you talking about her, I know that. But if that became a constant thing, if I started schedule stuff, my fears if I schedule stuff, I know my fears if I schedule things. Man, this is like real coming up that I haven't really Oh, I feel it. Yeah, I'm so sorry, but my fears that if I schedule things and I'm constantly asked, hey, I need a few minutes to do this, can you do it? Then again I take a personal I'm like, Okay, your post or whatever you have to do right now is more important than me sitting down to Even if it was me sitting down to eat lunch and now was the time that I scheduled to eat lunch, that would drive me nuts. Yeah. Oh man, I feel it, Like I want to tory completely validate what you're going through. My son is sixteen years old, and if I asked him to wash my car out of nowhere, he loses his mind because he's like I already had a plan for the day. You didn't tell me. This is a masculine energy thing that Jenna and I when we're in our masculine when we are, and what that equates to is producing a result. When I am heads down trying to produce a result and somebody comes and interrupts me, it's crazy because now I can't produce the result. It's like you've thwarted me on my road to winning. It'd be like you and you know your sports, and somebody comes and you know, like takes you out of your schedule, and you're like, this is non negoctiable. I'm trying to win the game. Like that is what we're doing when we're in that sort of laser focus, and it's getting really crushed being at home with kids and all of us all up in each other's business. You know, like if you went to an office and you could just power through, you'd be so happy. Because it also meets the need for certainty and control to be able to be in charge of something in your life. So this is kind of a core issue that you've kind of just been like, I don't think I'm I don't think I'm gonna put any stake in the ground, because that's gonna be that's gonna cause so much pain. You don't have what you need in order to get passionate about something because you know you don't have what it what you need in order to win. And I feel like it goes back to for you to within the beginning where it was like it's all about you and your schedule and what instead of really vocalizing what you need and being you know, having the flexibility. But unfortunately you take you take it on so personal that just because I say, hey, can you I gotta post this, I wouldn't redo it or whatever. You know, you automatically go to your stuff. Isn't important and that's not true. But that's how that's what you feel, and that sucks. I'm sorry that that's what you hold. Well. If we go super like d n A with this, you and I, Jane, if we identified more feminine. This is not a gender thing. But if you're in that flow state and you're a creator and you're just going multitasking, doing one thing to the next, that says to me that you are working that DNA that we had when we were like cave women go out into the field and we go with all of our friends and we make sure the tiger didn't meet the kids, and I got all the blue areas that wouldn't kill the tribe, and like we're doing fifty million things. We're like, hey, girl, grab the coot. He's about to get hit by the tiger. It's like we just can do that. You know, when somebody is in that I gotta hunt the deer. Kill the deer that's not going on, And don't ask me to do something while I got it in my line of sight, because then I will miss him and we will not eat for a month. But you know, it's it's that kind of dynamic that's happening right now. And you're like, girlfriend, can you help me with the kids? And he's like yeah. And we're getting into an argument when I asked him a question when he makes a peanut bar and jolly sandwich and I'm like, what do you mean you can't talk to me and make a sandwich Like it's it's mine point, live or die needs to eat now, don't interrupt me and put my sandwich in my face. Then I'll talk to you. It's a thing. It's a real I've studied this for years and one of a great great resource on this is Alison Armstrong. She she does work with understanding our differences. That is game changing. So what do we do about that so that he doesn't have and doesn't have to hold this anxiety? Because that I mean when he talks about like I feel that, I feel the heaviness and how you talk and you're breathing and you know it's I'm so grateful for you, Janna, that you can be that compassionate, empathetic, can feel him, because that's the start. That's it right there. If you didn't understand and you were shaming him for this and making him feel less than that's what a lot of us. Do you know, or like, what's wrong with you? I can only think of one thing at a time. I appreciate that, But can I ask her something with that? Because it's an argument that comes up in our relationship where he'll say I'm fake supportive and so he'll if he wants to do something, but then something comes up and we there's an issue around it. He's like, you're being fake supportive and it's like, but something might just change and maybe a feeling or um or a schedule or something, and I and when he takes it personal like that, how how can I still support? But also I have my own experience, it says along with it for changes in schedule or without being like because it's it's hurtful when he says that, because I'm like, I always want to support and and make him, you know, and just um, I want to encourage him to do what he wants to do and be happy. Yeah. Yeah, And I think just knowing that, just hold onto that, Mike, that the intention is always there to be a really good supporter. And this is just a micro shift. This is what's working with so many couples I know that I've been working with this year of trying to re draw the lines and the rules being at home together. I think there needs to be an agreed upon block of time that he gets that you also get by the way that you both get this block of uninterrupted time that is honored at all costs unless somebody's bleeding, you know what I mean, Where he knows he can count on this time and that in that moment I call it, he goes into this mode of being accountable for something. He's to produce something, even if it's his own just zoning out, you know, and not doing anything sacred time for him to produce a result. You then, de facto become the supporter. He's he's a protector, provider of this result, and you become a supporter enhancer, which means your job is to make his experience successful and delightful, you know. And and it's not you'd never take on this role de facto. It has to be agreed upon that you want to do this, otherwise you become reluctant supporter. And I don't think that's fake support for you. I'm not getting your reluctant You just life is happening and changing and that makes it difficult to support him well, so you throughout each day it changes what what's supporting you today? Look like Kenney? How how can I support you exactly? You know? And what do we do if something comes up? There? There should be no interruptions. I think that's really how it has to work. And you know that you equally have the same thing, like I have a particular client. Right you can hear that kids are blood curdling screaming in the background while she's trying to do like strategic work with me. And it's because her husband cannot corral the kids. He just he doesn't have control over them. Like this is not negotiable that you have to leave what you're doing and try to corral them just because he can't do it. So they had to bring an extra help or you know, they're they're just there needs to be very very firm boundaries around each other's time. And then when you have feelings about changes or ways that things are you know, going, that need to be discussed, it's outside of that block of time, you know, maybe in a lovely place with a beverage where you get to say, Okay, let's refine how this is working. Here's how I'm feeling. This is what's coming up for me and Mike, you listen to learn. You just get curious about what she's saying that she's not she's not coming at this like she's trying to take away anything from me or an not supporting you that wholeheartedly. She's trying to learn how to be a better supporter. And she's telling you what's going on for her. And then there's a deal to be made. Okay, what do you need, babe? What do you need? You go back and forth to try to find a new, greater arrangement, not a compromise where there's a loser. I'm not about this where somebody has to like suck it up. It's let's come, let's get creative enough to come up with a new way of doing things that really makes us both feel like winning. You know, I think you're very close. It's just it's just those two moves, fully honoring his time and then Mike you fully honoring hers, and then a little more discussion. I think where my I might have a hard time with this and where I can understand where he comes into fakes when he said will say that I'm fake supportive when let's say his time he uses is to go play video games or is to watch TV or something. And where I feel anxiety that comes up is what if I'm working that day and you know, maybe the hour that I went to go do his run, but you know, maybe he didn't work the rest of the day or something. So then I start to get and I don't know what if. Sometimes I might feel it's a maybe jealousy, but also it's um like I might be like, well, why didn't he use his hour to work? You know, because that's that's so then that's where I can feel myself being fake supportive, where even if it was video games, I need to support that, but I have sometimes I have a hard time with that if I don't feel his passion to like, go get it. But that's why I want him to find a passion go get it, you know. So that's where so maybe then I wouldn't selfishly struggle as much to know that you know, he's putting in the effort to work as well. I guess does that make sense? Like I yeah, I want to ask you, Janita, what would give you if he was passionate about something, if you felt like he was on a mission, it would inspire me to, you know, work harder to um I thrive off of you know, if he was like, if it was something together, let's just say we have a few things that I'd love for us to do together, and he's like, all right, let's do it. Like I'm like, okay, I'm gonna make sure we have a sitter and so then I'll get excited about it. If it's something that he wants to do by himself, that's great, Like I want him to be able to you know, find something that he loves to do. Um, you know work wise that he is excited and passionate about that he can grow and build because then it makes me want to continue to grow and build my stuff. And UM, I feel like it's it's nice to have the other partner. Um. How how do I say it? Where Um, it inspires me to to get excited about something as well. Okay, okay, have you ever considered that maybe that person who would inspire you and get you fired up as a partner of somebody in your business world that would do stuff with you that's not Mike. Yeah, I mean, and that's you know, I've I've had those conversations. I've been talking to a few girlfriends about doing kind of like a mom round table show. Um. And the only reason is because you know, I want to if our stuff, you know I of course, you know, we're we're praying we get a book too, So that's something that we can do together. And you know, um, obviously this podcast and there's a few other things I would love to do together. But again, if it's not inspiring him, then however he wants to spend his time work wise, like I want to encourage him to do it. Yeah, a couple of things. There's a lot said there. First is, you know, we're stuff together. Like I said, jan is the idea genius should come up with something and be like, hey, I want to do let's do we should try work on this. I'm like okay, and then that's it. And then I feel like she'll come back around to me and be like, well, why didn't you bring it up again? Why didn't you schedule it. I'm like, this wasn't my idea. I was like, you gotta I'm simple, you gotta tell me, hey, on Tuesday from ten o'clock to two o'clock, we're gonna work on this. And then once I realize what we're doing and we're getting going, then I can do that too, and I feel like a part of it. But in an early stage of something when it wasn't my idea, I feel like I'm a passenger until like grasp the concept and understand better. Because she's just more knowledgeable about some of the things that she wants to do because it's it's it's it's in her wheelhouse. I'm good once I get going. And then also she works differently. She could have ninety seconds she can't sit down. She will find something to do, she will fold two shirts, she'll do something, and she sees me and I have a lot. We we joked because on the weekends is when I'm most productive. And I grew up where like weekends it's like yard work, house stuff, let's go, let's go, let's get after it. So weekends I'm more productive than I am during the week, and that's the only time she's actually just wants to sit and chill. And then during the week I have an easier time just kind of hanging out and she she can't sit for ninety seconds at all. And so it probably that like she to her point where maybe come across as fixed supportive, is because she's working her ass off and she sees me, who doesn't have as much day to day work responsibility hanging out or going to play golf or whatever, and she probably is partly jealous, even though even even if I did work the same amount, it's not like she would stop. She would continue to work harder. Yeah, there's role clarification though that I feel like it is so important in this because if you bring an idea Janet's Mike and you're like let's do this. You're a kind of de fact of the leader on it. You're the one who had the idea, and you ultimately then get stuck in a supportive role. How can I help you bring this to life, babe, unless you guys sort it out and get really clear about who's in charge of what in order to produce this result together. You know, I think my my problem is as I sit back and I wait to see if there's passion behind there, because I have said a few things that I would need his help on and I haven't seen you look into it or study different um websites about it, So I kind of go back. It's kind of the same thing where our therapist said, hey, why don't you guys get a book you guys can read together? And you know, because I've really been wanting to read a book together, and so I default almost to wait to until he brings it up, because in my mind, I'm like, well, if he doesn't bring it up, then that means he doesn't want to do it. And he doesn't, you know, he's not passionate about it. Yeah, do I have to be as equally like I'm still willing to do it, but does it have, Like why do I have to match your I mean, it's I don't want to do it if you're not excited, Like I need the energy. I feed off of people's energy. I feed off of you know, Oh yes, let's do it, like okay, this day, where are you doing this? And hey, guys, I looked up a few websites that are similar to what we want to do or something, you know, and it's like I need like that's just me. I guess I'm how do I how do I go alongside something when maybe the energy isn't there because I make up that I'm like, he doesn't want to do it, and that's okay. Let me see this real quick before we goes on. That is I mean, is that fair to expect the same energy like something you're passionate I'm passionate about. I wouldn't expect the same passion from you. But sometimes we just do things for each other because we know it's important to one another, Like we can't always expect our partner to be just as enthusiastic you're willing to do something and if or not not do it at all, because we do make sacrifices. We do do things because the other it's important to the other person. My take on this, jannas you're coming at it with fire, and you want fire to play with. It's the inspiration, the passion, that's what that element of excitement is what you feed off of. And I think if Mike doesn't have the same fire, we could look at another way that he might come in to support you that we haven't discussed yet. So imagine this. When we're in that creative mode, we're like dancing in the fire. That's that's how we are. And I think that's ultimately what's happening with women right now is we are in our power out there creating, doing so much great stuff in the world, and all the men that I'm working with are kind of like, what do I do with all of this? So you guys are not alone and having this conversation, I need to say that, they're like, what do I do with her? And and you know, we want them to be with us because we creve connection and we love them and so we want to do it together. But there's another way that I'm seeing men show up ultimately that would have us get even more fired up and more powerful, not meaning us in the same energy, but actually being like the ground of our being, providing this grounded presence like earth, you know, fire and earth like he just could lay there and watch you and be there for you and cheer you on and give you this safety that you need to go out there and do all the things. That's another way of being in partnership that I could see, Like you can tell Mike's got this really grounded energy, like a stillness that ultimately is the masculine. It's this stillness, this consciousness that's awareness, you know, that we want to be witnessed by. We want them to watch us, see us go like oh my God, like like to in all your creative you know. And that could be one way that I think we could just take the pressure off being fire for a while and say what would it give you if he showed up in that way. But I'm guessing like you're not experiencing that from him because when he's in the stillness, he's focused on his sandwich for he's focused on his game, right, and and he's not showing up to be a sounding boarder, to be a witnessed everything that you're doing, or to like fan your fire and make you more fired up. I think that's what you're asking for, is like fire me up even more, get in here with me, you know, look at me. Yeah, we want to be seen and heard and like adored for what we're doing, you know. And I've went and I've experienced this in workshop with men. So I'll go do these crazy intimacy workshops like sacred intimacy where you know, we'll do this experiment of having a man like literally laid down and be like so focused on us as women that we would just like, you know, blow up and all the energy. You know, like we could talk about this on a whole other show. But that showed me the potential for us in partnership now, for us to be unleashed by full presence in a man. And it doesn't mean like he needs to sit there and watch you at your work all day. It's doses of full presence and appreciation for you that then you could take to maybe other fired up people and do you work with I think it's interesting like when we say like we just want to be seen and maybe it's just I feel like, I mean, obviously there's so many relationships that are falling right now, and you know divorces. But it's almost like we're passing each other, you know where it's like it's it's kind of this um. I mean, I know, I crave to be seen, even you know, when I put makeup on and like for the first time in three months or something, and you know, he'll walk right past me and have looked at me, but like not said anything. And it's just like that, You're just you're gutted, you know, because you're just like, I have eyeliner on. What is this? But that's the thing to me. You look just as beautiful without makeup and so but it's it's just interesting, like the fire and the ground and what we like, what we need and what you know, what you need versus what I need, and you know, it's just it's an interesting it's an interesting conversation just because we do have very different needs. I think women just want to be seen and heard and appreciated and men just want to be respected and I know respect. That Love and Respect book you read was was huge, and it's just feeding those fire and ground and I don't know, it's interesting all the elements. Yeah, this is like in the ira Veda and the yoga, you know, these great scientists of conscious just laid this all out for us a million years ago. And I think there's a lot to be gained from from seeing it as just that that you two are forever changing throughout the day too, which is hard for a man who just wants to lec be still, you know, or be in control, because because there's fluidity and we dance ultimately, there are times when I've had this conversation with like my soul brother who I do this work with, Dan Dodi of every Man, and I would say, women just want to be seen and heard and appreciate, and he's like us too, And it was always us too, like because we don't get we don't get stuck, and if we do, that's when relationship troubles happen. Playing the same role all the time, you know, there's gonna be something I know, Mike, that will crack for you that you're gonna be super fired up about and you're gonna need her appreciation and you're gonna want her to see you and all of that, you know, and what you're creating. But yeah, it's it's a dance, man. And I have had so many people say to me like, oh, just figured her out. We just got this new way of being and now it's different again. It doesn't work NEARRM, but I just tell me what to do. That always works. And it's that's just not relationship. No, it's not. We're ever changing. I know, well, sure, thank you for coming on and just have to pay you for that. So just invoice. I heart radio. So I'll just say this one last thing. The more you want to give, the more you need. And Jane and the last little bit here you talking about the needs is really what it all comes down to is constantly just being kind enough to ask each other a moment by moment what do you need right now? But what do you need for this block of time? What do you need? If things feel like they're changing a bunch like and and for him to say like, yeah, I love you without makeup. I love you with makeup. But the what do you need? I need you to adore me no matter what. I need you to stop every time I enter the room and go, wow, we want all about that. Where can our listeners find you? Um? And uh hi are you? Oh Man? On insta at the Luminaries and Shari Healy dot com on the website which will actually soon be relaunching. That's just the Luminaries dot com amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on. We so appreciate it, and um, we'll talk to you again soon once we get that fire to keep it. Let I love talking with you guys. Have a great time. Thank Do you want to go make a fire? I mean now I feel like I gotta go in the office and just create. It's a it's a it's a Saturday afternoon. I'm like, I just want to flip this table in front of me. Let's do this. What is a weekend? So oh my goodness, man, I feel a little I feel like a little cleansed though, because that was some like real anxiety coming up for me. Mhm, like stuff that you know. It's that's the benefit of your therapy in general, right, you come you just start having these conversations and you just come to the realization of something without even knowing. I'm like, like, that's why, like, that's why I'm scared to schedule things, you know. And that's the thing. It's like, no one's fault. It's not your fault's not my fault. It's just the anxiety I have around it because of how I'm programmed because I want you you know, every things are going to change. Hey, I know you're doing this, but can you give me five minute? You know what I mean? Like a lot of it's how we phrase it or how we ask each other. But I don't know. I gotta go think about this stuff. Well. I think what I took away from UM sureI is that UM tone deaf or not. You can you can sing and you can um anything is possible. And I think that's you know, you just gotta you gotta put in the work. You gotta put in the energy, and you gotta put in the focus in the drive to get that fire. So UM. And there's a mark in a closet? What are you doing in a closet? Some days it's the only place you can go. We can get some peace and quiet, and it's it's also a good room for recording because it's a dead room. There's no echo. Right. I was gonna say, I've heard a lot of people like radio hosts and stuff like that, be like, yeah, but I'm in my closet still and I've heard a lot of people in the closets. I'm actually not too surprised that's funny. Would you get out of this mark? Do you get anything? Do you feel anything? I thought it was fascinating actually, And also I think that there's a fundamental issue there between men and women because I felt this in my marriage too, where the woman is very invested in the man's motivation and drive and passion, and the man could care less about her motivation and drive and passion. And if my wife wanted to spend four hours every afternoon on the couch watching wheel Housewives, I wouldn't care in the slightest. That's fine if she wants to do that, have a good time. But if I started doing that, it would be a major issue because then you're just a lazy slob. So I really related to what you guys were talking about it. I think that's something a lot of married couples deal with. I guess I just don't know why, like is it because we feel like we we do a lot of but you do a lot of work too with the kids in the household stuff. So I just I don't know where, like why why we've taken on that role of why is it? Why is it not okay? Like I don't know, it's it's interesting. Just like if if she was to sit, if I was to sit and watch a movie, be like, awesome, enjoy your movie. But if you did, I would be like so annoyed. Right now, there's so much to do, you know, it's so interesting. I'm glad I'm not the only one. I'm glad to hear that your wife is the same way. Absolutely, And since we're all stuck together, it becomes more obvious. Like if I'm at work and she doesn't see what I'm doing all day, but when I'm home she sees everything I do. And so if I'm not always focused on this, well then why aren't you doing this? Why are you doing this? Weren't you exercising? Why don't you know? There's a you try to live there. We try to live our lives for each other, and I think that can be a bad way to go kind of, you know, yeah, Like I want to be able to do stuff and and Janet doesn't. I don't want to do the message that she nags or is a constant nagger by any means. But I think our whole point here is it's it happens with everybody. Every relationship deals with some sort of this and but there is some days I just want to be like, I want to do whatever I want to do on my time, on the time I want to do it, and that be okay, and that that includes being productive, that includes not being product that includes everything. But it's like I feel like whenever at the time I do do something, whether it's productive or not, they're still something to be said, something to be said. It's like, oh, right now, you're going to do that, or I'm like there's no there's no good time. Then I don't you know what I mean, Like, there's always just something has to be said. And I've said that a lot in arguments, and I think it comes down to the wife always has a list of a hundred things to do, and they're all prioritized as immediate and later and when I get a second And so when that's your mindset, there's no concept of sitting and watching a movie or or just laying on the couch or playing video grabs or anything like that. And we're like tomorrow, three months from now, next year, that's our timeline. Because my wife never stopped moving. She's always got something better and in the back of her mind five other things she needs to do. In addition to that, I think we need to realize it's a biological thing and we're as men are not to be blamed. Okay, good, yes, let's all agree on that it's science. Sorry I started saying that it's science. Honey, has nothing to do with me. It's all science. Good luck. Oh man, Well I I thanks for making me feel less crazy, like maybe you just mean the wives should get together and just you know, pow wow about it instead of complaining to y'all. You know, good times. It's a lot through unpack. Um, yeah, it is, for sure, But I think that was a great show. It was an awesome show. What are you doing after the show? I'm curious about the light a fire, make a sandwich and watch TV. On that note, I got about a laundry list of things to do in laundry. So I did start the laundry, yes, but you never finished it because by the time by the time I go to the laundry said, it's like a timer, okay, fifty five minutes and then she'll go It's like so I'm just like, okay, I throw this in the wash. I'll come back in a little bit. I'll afford the laundry. Whatever next thing I know, I go in the laund room, it's all done. I'm like, I started it. When if you, if you just not do it right. When it's done, give their fold clothes. They're piping hot too. And that's why I started setting a timer, because I have to get in there first. Otherwise I'm the bad guy starting the laundry. But I love my wife. What a what a realizations. But thank you, honey for starting it. I so appreciate starting my work for me. Push over our podcast. I've sprint into the laundr yom stalking forward it before you get there, you tackle you. Oh my god, I love you. Guys? Are week a productive week at that