What Wine Down with Janet Kramer her radio podcast. Seriously, how is it March four? What just happens? That is insane? Jakes is going to be like five. He looks like I love him, He's like, he's so precious. He is the happiest baby ever ever. I'm literally obsessed with definition of a happy baby. So, baby, um, what are you mentioned on right now? What just happened? I just had a birthday, birthday, babe, my birthday week? So what did you do? What? What? What did you do for your birthday? Tell everybody, Well, my wonderful wife planned a trip to Vegas last weekend or my birthday weekend, and all thanks to Amy Sugarman by the way, all thanks shout out to and boys to men was like my bucket list of people to meet. Yeah, so we were. We went to Lionel Richie Um with Amy about a year so ago, like maybe eight months okay whatever, years ago. We went. I was like October, it's March, guys, I'm just still trying to figure that out. I was pregnant. It wasn't a year ago, but no, So we all went and so I said to him, I said, you know who would be your bucket list person to meet musically musically and he said boys to men. So I've kind of postmarked that in my in my brain and said, oh. I was like birthday, that's a great birthday idea. But I was like, Amy gotting hookups to boys to men, which we do. They are the nicest guys. They actually hung out with them and we've done multiple things with them. They are nice. But I surprised him with it, and did you have fun? I had the best time, Like I felt like a little kid. I was just sitting there the whole time with a smile on. My videos were so funny and Jane was like even kept asking me, like you having fun? I was like, you know what, I can't wait for speaking of boys to men, they're doing you know CMT Crossroads. You like that is going to be That's gonna be so cool. That's cool there. They just taped it. So yeah, we need to get into them on the show. I think March, but I might be wrong if we can get one of those, so you know you got to cross that off your list. Yeah, that was very cool. Boy, two men on the show, that would be I mean, I would love that. I've never seen the thirty dollar you know, the binder that has the picture of the three. It's like the essentially like the picture of you on the roller coaster after the ride. It was like it was like that before the meat and great like they give you like to like three by five for free, and they're like, well, you can pay like eighty dollars for this. I was like, hey, honey, do it like get a crack card up your question. I was like, Michael, it's just the photo of the three. It's like it's gonna the memory. You're not even in it, are on the one side, but the other side is like the picture that Janet posted on Instagram to my face and she thought it was like a five year old having ice cream for the first time. I was like, this is amazing. And we're waiting in line to go up and meet him, you know. I was. I don't get nervous when I meet most people, but it's boys men, so I was. And so I was like, how do I do this? I was like, you know, any white person going up there and meeting him is like giving him a handshake for all the brothers are dapping him up. I was like, come on, I gotta dap him up. I'm not just gonna go up there and give him I don't know what that means. I don't like I gotta like, you know, the handshake in to the hug. And I wasn't gonna be like, you know, straight hand, Hey, how you doing for white person's ound? You know, I had to give him some love. So what's he's straight up? Just hugged him all and hugged They are the coolest guy. How old you thirty two? Oh you're so young. I know he's so young, eight year old. But still, I mean, I'm a cougar, so I'm living and I'm over here. Who would be your bucketless person to meet? Um? Like, who would you get? Nervous? Life? Sounds so gross? I mean I've met I've met Taylor Swift and Sho and I Twain and that was like really up, that was kind of that was up there. There's nobody else, No, there definitely are. But give her something because she's a great friend. Okay, okay, she might try to make this happen. I just like to make people's dreams. I'm true. Think about it one second. Who's your mark? You guys, we're going around the table right here. When you meet these people, I always feel like I don't I won't know the right thing to say, and it's going to be awkward. But my two heroes of life are Bruce Springsteen and David Letterman. When I was in high school, everyone else had like, you know, musicians or hot girls their locker. David letter magazine coverage, high school locker. But if I met him would be so awful because I know he would hate meeting me because he's just a guy who people David. Yeah, he seems surly. Yeah, so I think you'd hate it, And so I would hate to bother him and Springsteen. He's a nice guy. But what am I going to say that it's better experience with Bruce? I think probably right? Yeah, Okay, well let's let's think Amy. What about you? I know we meet people every day. Person that's like, but I mean, is there the one person I would not like to meet her? But I would really enjoy having a lunch in Santa Barbara with Oprah. I have spoken to her on the phone, but I have never met her in person, and I like, I don't mean to be the person, but she's like literally the queen, Like I think she's so brilliant and amazing and kind and all these things. So I always just think Oprah Easton and he already met you, honey, yeah yeah, no, no, no, no, oh my god. I literally feel really bad right now because Travis Barker isn't that blanknity two? Oh god? Why? I mean here totally had Travis Jianna and he was like, you say, to my house last weekend. Travis has like he's been space. Right now, it looks like a sad puppy dog. The big thing that will happen, honestly, this is is that the other one? Oh yeah, okay, that's gonna happen really soon. Um alright, lady Gaga. For my whole life, it was Britney Spears. But I have like a very bizarre story about that that already kind of happened. That was like my peak of life. You met Brittany. I went to dinner with her? What really weird? I mean, how nonchalant was that? Because because I can't she was totally annoyed during dinner, and I like, how did you go to dinner with her? So a couple of years ago, one of Ty's friends was dating her. Who I can't remember, no, no, Ken. It was like two or three years ago that I thought I had that. Yeah, And anyways, he basically was like, would you and like Sarah want to go to dinner with us? My parents were in town. I had dinner with my parents. I'm in the car and I'm like, Mom, I don't know, Tyler wants me to go to dinner with like Britney spe My mom was like, where is he? We're dropping you off, like we don't matter, like you're going and I was like, okay, okay, okay. So we went to some steakhouse in the valley and she was so nice, like so nice. I couldn't breathe. I was trying to be so that was the first city I have Burth had. I wanted to be a backup dancer for it when I was little, know, like it was whack, that's in my life. That was like, this is not real life. She was so nice, she was she's beyond nice. Normal. Well. I met her manager, Larry Rudolph on a plane. We were I was sitting up I think I don't know how someone I must have been doing something. But I got up first class and I was saying next to Larry Rudolph. I didn't know. I didn't know who he was, but we were just chatting about music and stuff and he's said his name and I was like, that sounds so familiar. And then we know, we got talking a little more. I was digging a little bit more because I like to talk. And he told me that he was Britney Spears as manager, and we started talking about Brittany and it just about how hard her life must be. And He's like, look out, you know over the world right now, down there, every single person down there probably knows who Britney Spears is. And I was like, wow, that's so true, and like I've obviously been places with like Wayne and like airports, and I was like, there was nothing like walking in and out of that restaurant with her like Tie and I were just like it was crazy, but that probably how now Taylor has so she's now yeah, I'm sure because it was like, well, but it was a really nice dinner. She was really nice. They asked us to go play ping pong afterwards, and Tyson no, and I will literally never forgive him for it. She was like, do you guys want to come over to my house? And play pink yeah the world boy, because he was like why did Honestly I don't remember, not by the ear, because I was like, you guys have never seen me the way I was at that dinner. But honestly, we like related, like we talked about like like she was like, oh my god, like what are you gonna get? And I was like I don't know, like the fried chicken. She's like, I love fried chicken. I was like I do too, Like I'm from Texas, I'm from Louis So we kind of had that whole thing, like the like Texas like southern girl thing. But yeah, she was like, do you guys want to come over? I cannot tie socks. I literally I think we actually probably want to play. I was really like, we know we're like her houses and now every time we drive by them, like remember when like we could have play ping pong and then that's probably And he was like, you're so competitive it would have called weird. I was like I wouldn't let her win, like I don't even care, like it wouldn't have been weird, like I would have turned into a regular ping pong knight. Then she came to his graduation party. What whose graduation party his months later. It was very It was a weird couple of months. She like showed up at tides graduation party at his parents house and everyone was like so nice, so nice. Well, her sister Jamie Lynn wrote, I Got the Boy. So that's how crazy is that? Yeah, so Brittany when when when I Got the Boy was going for the number one on radio because it was number three, Brittney Spears retweeted or like tweeted out saying, hey, country radio play and I'll never forget remember when I came to I was like, she knows my name? You know a song from Jamie Lynn. What a good songwriter she's written. She wrote it with um Connie Harrington, Tim Nichols and Jamie Lynn wrote it and so it was a song that Jamie Lynn never ended up cutting. And so when my old producer Scott Hendrix was with Tim Nichols, he's like, you know, I have a song that might work for Janna. It's about five years old, but it's such a great song. And I heard it and it was you know, I was always trying to write a song about my high school sweetheart and I never saw like it never Yeah, so like like no song ever you know that I wrote, never worked, but I got the boy. When I heard it, I was like, that's that's the song. It is a very brilliantly written. It's so I mean, Tim and Connie are and saying, then Jamie's she's you know, she's just as equally as talented, and you know, I've I'm so thankful that she let me have that song. But yeah, I love that family. Yeah, but there there's so nice they are a nice family. Cool but yeah, story story, Yeah, that's a great story. And I told I told Janna just across. Another one off my bucket list is Larry David. If you just come to Brentwood. I just want not to meet, but have like you said, Amy, like have a lunch, Like I just want to have a lunch. Just come to because then, actually, like Mark, I would be able to have things to say. But when you have that, like that one second interaction, there's nothing you can say that's going to annoy him. The one second interaction. Wouldn't know it. But I have a conversation and just a bullshit about not even asking questions about life with the perfect person to bullshit about life with the one who invented that, like that would be the best thing ever. Wasn't Jerry sign but he yeah, he co created like Sinfeld with Jerry Sinfeld. Oh my god, this is we're learning so much. Who's yours mine? Sleean don Okay, I'll go We should be able to make that happen. But she canceled her her her what's that thing called her residency in Vegas? Maybe part of me. She might be going on world tour. Really, I'm gonna have to look it up. But she's she's she's my she's my number one. It's it's her. And then j Lo, which those are very j Loo can be done in a heartbeat, and twelve times all of these are in Vegas, so I think we should go back. Jo's done in Vegas. But Batt, she's done in Vegas. She finished her residency, so yeah, those are And then acting actor wise, I would love to I'd actually love to sit down and have lunch with um Julia Roberts. She'd be, she'd be in my lunch person. She's just so I love her. She's just be. When we were at Pebble, we got hooked on Pretty Woman was on that night and I had never seen and like we're like at the end and Tiz like so wait now like now they're in. I was like, just go away, like this is classic and I just need to say every word while I watch it. But I love her speaking at tie. It's March, No, biggie, what's happening? Amy, I don't even know. And I talked to him. I was going to say, Janney that I do. You can say that. You can say that, but I don't think say what, like have you found out? All right? We know Mark is going to be like I have an idea, Mark, can you mute the mics for a second so that Jeanna so that all the mics are down Janna can tell us what she found out and then we can react to it. Oh but there, then that's just not nice to the people. You know. You got to give the people what they want. Me and I have to get I don't think it was anything crazy. I'm just saying like maybe not like I'm trying to think of like what even happened. I was just let me know. Let me just say I went to the bathroom. She went to the bathroom. I forced her to the bathroom. Now I need to seven texts from her. I was in the bathroom and she's like, go to the bathroom, Stay in the bathroom, Stay in the bathroom. I'm like, I don't have Like I'm coming back. She's like stay. I'm like what, I was just trying to get it out of him. Long story short, he just doesn't have the urgency. He has something well maybe I don't know, way it's positive. Maybe well no, here's nothing I didn't really already know. But I feel like she for him to I don't know. He just doesn't have the urgency he needs to get. The urgency is basically what it is. Yeah, but you know what hateful emails. Then I'm not supportive of what you want enough you hateful? Like, how dare you amy? You need to support what Sarah wants? I'm I'm just trying to have ties back. Listen, people hate, they're gonna hate on it, and there's people just hate. But I'll tell you what you shouldn't hate on is being fit. All right, So getting fit and staying healthy always sounds easier said than done, right, Well, open fit is bringing you something new that makes it even easier to miss, to never miss a sweat session. So Basically, open fit is a super simple streaming service that allows you to work out from the comfort of your living room and as little as ten minutes a day. So when people say I don't have enough time, I don't have thirty minutes, I don't have an hour, You've got ten minutes. Okay. Everyone's bodies are different. Open Fit gets that. That's why it's personalized your needs with custom original content. So open Fit classes are led by some of the most effective and engaging trainers in the world. Um, you can watch it on your TV, your tablet, smartphone, Roku, whatever. My favorite program actually is the six hundred Seconds with Devin Wiggins. It's ten minutes, it burns fat, it builds muscle, and it sculpts your body for free. So all you have to do right now is during the open Fit thirty Day Challenge, my listeners get a special extended thirty day free trial membership to open fit where you can lose up to fifteen pound in thirty days. When you text Joanna to thirty you will get full access to open fit, all the workouts and nutrition information totally free. Again. Just text jannat Okay. So I'm really excited because Michael and I have been kind of going back and forth on a few different diets. So I was super pumped when I found out that Heather do Bro is in the studio and she just walked in. So Heather, guys, thanks for having me, Thank you so much for coming in. We were talking about this well. Once we knew that you were coming in, we obviously started doing the research on the Dobro diet. And because we started doing the whole thirty, I changed it to Wine thirty because I didn't want to give up my wine. And he yeah, we created a little bit. So what made you? I mean, basically create your own diets. You it's your last name, it's your right diet. We didn't actually intend to write a book about this because our last book was all about anti aging and whatnot, and we were talking about, like, you know, what's next book. We were thinking about it. But what happened was about three and a half years ago, Terry started talking about fasting and I was like, that's crazy, you fast. That's like that's like skinny tired people. That sounds very unhealthy. It sounds like people laying on a couch. And then we started talking about it and I realized I was doing it just in my regular life, because he was like, well, what time did you stop eating last night? And what time did you start eating today? And so we started really talking about the science of it and delving into it and figuring out how to make it work. And then, you know, Terry, being the science nerd that he has, started looking up this Nobel Prize winning um concept of auto f agy, which is basically the Greek word for eating oneself. And we started working on this and came up with this idea that sixteen hours seems to be the goal of not eating. But the thing is is that we did it. We started doing it in a way that was really attainable and sustainable. And what we realized was, not only are you going to get to your goal weight super fast, but you're gonna have more energy than you ever had in your life. It makes your skin tighter, makes your hair grow, I mean, it has all these incredible anti aging effects. Sixteen hours from when to when it doesn't matter, okay, but time out. What if it was during the day, though, that's fine, but then you're working and then you're not. Your body is not. So if you're not eating for sixteen hours during the day, wouldn't you just pass out? Because so, no, But the smarter way to do it, we'd have part of it being your sleep hours, clearly, because those are eight hours or for probably five hours wherever we're not we're not sleeping, So for sure you want to use your sleep hours and then add on the other time. But we give you three different tracks to make it work, so you can do a slow, medium, or fast. So it's twelve, fourteen, or sixteen hours, but clearly that sixteen hours sweet spot is the way to go to get the best best results. Okay, And do you like I'm saying it too, and you think it's not doable, right, Well, I'm trying to think. So we wake up at you go to bed. Let's say, what are you done eating at night? We have dinner at six, so you're done by seven and we're done eating. Okay, Yeah, so twelve hours is seven am, and then you add four more hours. Oh my gosh, but then you don't. Isn't breakfast the most important meal? It's not. It's absolutely not. And what happens is and Terry is really good at at explaining all the science behind it in the book but it's about basically using your gly kitchen as storage. So you're you're using your fat and your sugars that are in your body already to as fuel as opposed to the food that you're eating. Like, we also believe in cardio fasting. So when I go to the gym in the morning, I haven't eaten. But what we do is we get I'm sorry, it's just so hard for me because of my trainers always like you have to eat before you work out. Important. As a matter of fact, it's so much better to work out not having eaten. But during that non feeding time you can have up to a hundred calories. So if you're putting a little non dairy creamer in your coffee, we give you lots of tips to get through this bone broth, bullion energy, natural energy drinks like Beat drinks and stuff like that. That's what I do. I have a Beat drink in the morning. An empty stomach, and an empty stom doesn't make you go well, by the way, going is good, that's true. That's all plus. And then drop my kids off, go to the gym, come back and I have my first meal at a round two. Wow. See, I feel like that would just I'd be so tired, I would lag, I would I mean, I just feel like to me, to me that just And again I don't. I'm not the nutritionalists. I don't. I don't know. I've just always gone off of what I've known and heard. And that's why it sounds so counterinto it if you think not eating equals tired, but it really doesn't. Have to think about this. Think about when people were hunting and gathering, Okay, when they had to find food. They were starving, right, So you get this burst of energy to go find the food, and then they eat, and then they're tired, and then they relax. They're not snacking. You know, when they were hunting and gathering, they weren't stopping to, you know, have a handful of almonds at two o'clock in the afternoon. They didn't do that. They would not eat and then eat. I think as humans, we were meant to live like that, and our bodies actually reacts that. So even though it sounds counter into, the science is there and the practicality is there, and you'll see we have thousands of people now on the diet that are saying they've had more energy than like I don't even drink coffee. So because of y'all's like scientific method behind all this, do you think y'alls died is less subjective than maybe some others, Like do you think this could affect and help a broader range of of an audience because of the science behind it. Absolutely, I think this is good for almost I mean there's a little category like a brittle diabetic. I wouldn't recommend this for it, but anyone else a h can do this diet. And what's nice about it is it's sustainable, because I truly believe that every diet works for a period of time, but they're not sustainable. You know that Keto diet. I watched my assistant go on that Keto diet and she was chugging oil in the car next to me. It was so gross and very It takes you to get out of catosis and get off that diet. So what we did was, like I was saying, we didn't really plan to write this, but we came up with this program for each other and we started living this life. And my husband just turned sixty. I just turned fifty, haven't had plastic surgery, you know, just all the non surgical sluges to anti aging. But notice how tight our skin was getting. And you know I wear a bikini now. At thirty, I wouldn't post a picture in a bikini, but now I feel so much more confident because of what this way of eating and living has done for me. So people are like, how do you guys look like this? And we thought, all right, let's write it down. So that's literally how you guys did them. So there's no So you're so, have you worked with the nutritionalist too, to kind of how do you say that? Like? Back it up? What's professional background? You and Terry know? So Terry is a board certified general surgeon and plastic surgeons, so he has all the science. And of course me being an actor's television personality and huge consumer and professional diet or since gaining the freshman, you know, for whenever I overachieved in that subject. Um, you know, I've been on every diet on the Plan, I've done Weight Watchers, Neutral System, Jenny Gary, I've been on all of them. And like I'm saying, I think every diet for a period of time works, But we're talking about attainability and sustainability. This is actually a lifetime plan. So Terry has really dialed in the science of why this is gonna work for you, and I have made it incredibly practical so you can do it. What about the people that say scientifically proven and all the studies they've done about having breakfast in the morning and in doing that, Like, what is what do you say to that, like to the evidence that they've had from that, I don't know what that. I mean. I haven't done a lot of studies on that, but I will tell you for our diet book, the studies are there, the sciences there, but even better than that, the practicalities there. So when we put the book together, we put a hundred people in a closed Facebook group, we put them on the diet, and they lost between thirty and ninety pounds wow, in a four to six month period of time. And one couple that we took on the news with us when we're doing segments with Greg and Tammy Hon he is almost at a hundred pound weight loss. Can you give our listeners just a breakdown of one day, an example of one day of what it looks like when you wake up in the morning. Yeah, well, let me break it into like the steps so you start with this red carpet ready, which is your quick fix. So you can use this as your start up for the diet. You can use it as you know you have a big like the oscars are coming up. You could use this for a big event that's coming up, or if you kind of get off track, to get back on track. It's two to five days. It's a more limited food list. There's no alcohol only for those two to five days. Don't make a face, It's okay. It's a very very very short period of times. This is just a couple of days. Um, and so you do that for two fights. And that's so. Is there carbs down there anything like that? There are when you are in your feeding period. You we give you food list for each phase of the diet. So there's the red carpet ready. Then there's the Summer's coming, which is the bulk of the diet that's going to take you to the goal. There's alcohol. Girls gotta have her Champs. I have. It's my red wine. I get it. By the way, I have four kids. I have to drink. Yeah, I have to. We have to. And we have an eleven week old. So I'm like, you have an eleven week old. You look fabulous. Ridiculous. Yeah, it's crazy. See that's genetics. We almost it's just hard work. That's no, it's great. I love it. It's but some people need more guidelines, and so we give you the foodless and the second part is a little more expanded. You get to have your alcohol back. And then in the last phase is the maintenance program, which is more expanded foodless and whatnot. But in general on these food lists are really good lean proteins, vegetables, certain fruits that you know have a lower sugar content, which fruits because I'm really big on fruits and the truths. Could I eat like my favorite food or sour cherries, that's one of the best fruits for you. I like grapefruit. Um, strawberries are really good. Um. There's so many fruits you can have. I would stay away from bananas. Yeah, bananas, I heard were why is that? It's a lot of sugar, right, there's a lot of sugar to really dense a lot of I was told if you eat a banana day, you can gain five pounds, Is that right? I never read it in Cosmo. I don't know you read it in Cosmo. It must be true. That's hilarious. Um So anyway, so we give you these foods and as far as carbs go, really good high fiber carbs and limits on the portions is what I have always found. And I do this with my kids. And I'm sure, how old are your kids? Three in eleven weeks? Okay, so you're so you're not there yet, but way to you take them to the movies and they want the whole box. That's my husband, and you have well, let me let me help husband. So what I do? I think he starts with what he starts with his raisinets during the previews, and then he eats the popcorn and then he'll have in the popcorn every time, but it's usually raisin uts and sour patch kids. And then he downs his diet. That's only a drink, soda or any of that. But that's okay, you're allowed to do that. You see, we build cheating into the diet because, yeah, you have to cheat. It's unrealistic. So whether you're on the slow, medium or fast track. If you're on the slow track, you get a cheat snack a week. If you're on the medium track, you get a cheat meal a week, and if you're on the fast track, medium and then fast two to five days right, No, No, the two to five days is just the little quick start. Then the middle part is as long as it takes to get to your goal weight. So you choose twelve, fourteen or sixteen hours. You get a cheat snack, cheap meal, or cheap day, depending on what track you're on. But here's the thing. You have to understand cheating. And this is why we're talking about portion control. Like I turn over the box and I show my kids not the calories, but the serving size, because I think, especially the Americans, we don't understand what a portion looks like. Explained to to her about what we just had it, remember lunch, and you're like, now I see why Americans are overweight. Oh we went to uh the restaurant? Where were we in Nashville? Cold Rafferty. It's like a Chilies or Applebee's right chain kind. Yeah, we sit down, we all order salads which are gint Norman right, the biggest bowl you ever seen. And when we first sit down, we all order a drink. I happen to order a diet coke before we even were a quarter. No, not you got me before we before any of us were even a quarterway through our drink, they brought all of us a second one. So it's like we're like, we didn't even ask, but it's just like we're sitting down, we have two diet cokes, a giant salad that has all the all over it, and it's like, what do you want us to do? Of course, America's because they're trying to give value, and that's the problem is that they want to give us so much value for you know, our money, So they want to give you this huge portion. And salads at these places are like ten thousand calories, right, and they've got so much stuff. People don't understand that I'm meeting us out. I'm like, yeah, but you just put all that dressing on it, which and all the right all the toppings on it. So what we're trying to do is reprogram people to eat like humans. So when I say cheat, I don't mean go to a buffet and gorgeous. It's like have the things you love. So if you're in your cheat day and you want cake, have a sliced cake, don't eat the whole cake, have pasta, but have a normal human size bowl posta. So I have a piece of dark chocolate a little square every single night after I eat. Is that okay? Well it's not really on our giet, but once a week you can have it, Okay, I will say, though, it's it's nice, like we did. Did you try that? Did you like the whole thirty or did not like the whole third? I didn't. That wasn't my thing. Wasn't your thing? I mean we we definitely tried it, but it just it wasn't I'm excited to I do want to try this. There wasn't sustainable with two kids or two young kids. But that's the thing, is that all these programs are just not sustainable. I remember being on I think it was um Nutral system and they would give dehydrated food and I remember being at a restaurant like it when it was twenty three and pouring hot water over a dehydrated hamburger at a restaurant. Is that that's not realistic? You can't live like that? How is it with because whole thirty whole thing, there's a lot of like meal prep and that's why we ultimately after like two and a half weeks, we can't do this like with a three year old and kids got sick, it's like, we can't do this. Is there any at Well? I think in general meal prepping is a good thing anyway, just because you know, when you are, you know, hungry, you make bad choices. That's why you should never go to the supermarket when you're starving, you know this, because then you, oh, that looks good, and you end up with all this stuff you really don't want. I'm meal prep as far as vegetables and fruits go. That are always in the refrigerator, so there's easy things to grab quick that are healthy if you need them, because if you don't have those, and especially when you have young kids, you end up eating their snacks. That little bag of pirate booty, that little bag I have, Um, I have a thing of hers in my bag because it was like, oh it's there, it's easy, and that's what you grab. But if you had this other stuff ready and available to you, you'd grab that. That's so true. So I do like the being prepared things. Having said that, do I think you need to have twelve meals organized ready to go for the week. No. And Terry and I also eat out a lot, so you can absolutely eat out on this story. Hasn't married for we've been married. It's actually our twenty year wedding anniversary and June. But we've been together twenty two years. And what's your kind of secret with with especially with you guys both being in the spotlight as well? Separate bathrooms for sure. I cannot share a bathroom, bad idea. You know that I like separate things. We do. We have that with separate toilets. Yes, twenty two years, trust me, something we have separate We kind of like we have a boot bathroom. That what you send him in the other room. I like that totally work. Same idea. Yeah, So I think what we've done well over the years, and look, you know, it's a leap of faith. You can try your best to pick the right partner, but you don't know what life is going to throw to you and how you're going to grow together apart. So you know, we have been very lucky. But I think one of the things that we've done well is we have made a concentrated effort to make our relationship a priority. You always have date nights and make sure we are having sex. We um we find things to do together now some people like to hike together, or some people you know, have hobbies together, and you get the two of you sitting here behind the mics. We like to work together. So Terry has his career obviously is a plastic surgeon. He's bodged. I have my career, my podcast, Had to Brows World, YouTube channel and TV things, and we together. We have our skincare and supplement line, Console Beauty that we sell at a shopping channel and we are going our four year anniversary with that. We write books together. We have a podcast together, Dr Mrs Guinea Pig. So that's our Isn't that weird? That's like our fun stuff together is creating things. No, that's the same with us. And we love kind of building this brand and and you know, doing the podcast together. We have something else really exciting that we're doing together. It's just like we're trying to build that because it's fun. We enjoy working together, but also having what you guys, your separate time as well. You have to because I think you need something to talk about it the end of the day and if you're together. Although I've seen couples make this work who are together all the time, but for me, personally, I feel like it's always been really important that he does his thing. I do my thing, and then there's like more layers to talk about being a plastic surgeon. Have you ever, I mean, you said you happen to any plastic surgery, But what's the one thing where you were kind of like, hey, honey, maybe, Oh it's every morning. I'm like, I need an emergency deck left and I have a bump on my nose when I turned to the left. That's why I always take pictures to the right, because when I turned to the left, I don't like this bump bump my nose. He's like, uh huh, basically ignores me and moves on. But you're just you. You just decided to know you don't want to do it. Well, I never say never, but um, you know, he fixed my hernie. I had an umbilical hernia, so he fixed that for me. And while he was there, he cleaned up my C section scar. That was very nice. I was that considered plastic surgery, not really. Um, a little botox now and again, who does Doug Mast? By the way, Doug Mast is the best. So I'm gonna have to get because I didn't like my last it looks look at like my it's pulling right there ya. But you know there's no roadmap and there's sometimes that happened. But Terry doesn't do injectable so like that anywhere, which is good because when he used to do them, he was don't mean to me. He's so nice to the patience. But if I came in forgot it and I go to the Doug mast, Doug is in amazing. He was actually just on botch last week. He was one of the people that was instrumental in getting sculpture approved um by the FDI. What's sculpt sculpture is? You know there's fillers. Uh, this isn't a filler. It's regrows your own collagen. It's injectable, but it regrows your In college, it was it was actually manufactured for AIDS patients because they get very skeletal and lose facial fat and so it's an incredible product. Anyway, So Doug, he's the best. He's in her most of beach. There's a plug for him. I love him. He's the best. So he does does your husband do breast augmentation? He does everything? Say I I just had a consult um, don't believe I'm saying this. I had a consult um a couple of weeks ago, but I've been kind of nervous about it. I don't know if I'm gonna go through with it or not. Let me tell you something. I probably the only plastic surgeon's wife with real breasts. If that tells you how I feel about Preston Player. I think for me is I don't want big I just I you know, they're saggy from two kids, and I I don't I would like them just I don't really like wearing bras a lot, so I would like it them to just to be a little lifted and a little teeny bit more in there. Okay, can I tell you something? Because you have an eleven week old and this is my big thing. So people talk with the mommy makeovers. A lot of people rush right, They go, oh, I've had my last kid. Now I'm gonna have a mommy makeover, and they get tummy talks and they get their breast done and whatever. The body has to rebound, And honest I think after our third child, I was like, oh my god, like what happened? These girls used to be so good? Another gone, and what am I doing? And we had talked about it and I didn't do anything, and my breast tissue regroup, Like my body actually bounce back. Now what is it? What it was? No, but it did bounce back. And I feel like people rush to the surgeon too fast. So give your body a chance to recover and see what it's going to do. And are you sure you're done? You know he's he has a vasectomy appointment. How do you decide that? Is that? Like? Did you see sections or sections? So I really couldn't have open you didn't want to have a little like a double knot? That's what I did? What do you mean? I have my tubes tiede? So I was figured, okay, yeah, I didn't want to be done, done done. I didn't want for me personally, I just I want to know that if I could have another baby, I could because as a woman, I just I didn't want to close that door. Hunter, and I was making you're nervous, She's like, I need to be able. Wait a second, you can he can reverse his vasectomy. The doctor that he's actually going to does more reversals than actually vasectomies. So the fact that you can't reverse your tubes. So for me, I just and as a woman, I just want to always. I don't know, it's just it don't take away my right to have babies if I wanted to. For me, I just felt ago through that. Like I said, we've had this discussion, and I had my uproar. At first, I was like, wait, what, Like I thought we were deciding that we didn't want anymore. What's the difference if well, what if I decide I want to happ one with somebody else or you? Why did not? I don't know. I did not say that. It's just it's almost like, you know, she's like someone I didn't say. It's like someone's taking away your ovaries. It just makes you not feel like a woman. Well I had to do IVF, so do we? Oh? Okay, so you could? All right? I always thought like if I had if I had to, or I'm eighties, so I wasn't having another child. But so we had three IVF and then one natural. Okay, so good that something's being done here. I'm just saying, apparently if you have sex, you can get pregnant. I don't know if you know that. After No, just in general, yes, because funny because after my third I thought, well, we can't we're done, but I can't get pregnant anyway, so we didn't do anything about it, right, So it's interesting to me that you decided to have a sect to me when you had to do. Well, here's the thing. So both ivfs failed. I got pregnant but then lost the babies. But we then got pregnant naturally one month each time. My fourth was natural. Yeah, that was like, I don't know how that happened. I swear we had a dry spell. Yeah, it's it's it's the whole infertility. It's just kind of crazy with my body. But we at first the last couple of months of the pregnancy, we actually were like, you know, what are we done? And then even a month after we're like, we don't know, and then recently we're both kind of like, you know what. I but here's the things. I just I love babies. I really if I could have Oh she wants no, I just I just don't him last night, No, I didn't know. But they get past that. I know, I know, but we don't. And here's the thing. My age too, I'm getting older, and the chances are you know they go up past you know, thirty five, and so it's just it keeps, it keeps seeing them. We have two very healthy children, and I want to I think we're two children. I have twins. So I have fifteen, fifteen, twelve and eight. Yeah, I was twins. It was like could we curse or no? Yeah, it was a show. I mean it was crazy. I had never even held a baby before. I wasn't one of those like I had cousins and nieces and I had had no clue. And then there were two. And Terry, you know, walks around the house like he just scrubbed him for surgery, so he doesn't touch anything. So I had a fabulous baby nurse, and you know, I figured it out. So when I had the third, that was like having a teddy bear. I'm sure because I already had two. I can imagine and I don't know, but you know, because now you have an eleven week call, I would imagine that going from one to two has to be the hardest transition because when you have one, it's just one, and two must seem like twelve. I started with two, so three or four was nothing. Yeah, that's where people before we had our second one. People kept saying that They're like, it's harder to go from one to two, and it is two to three and worth sitting there, Like from a logical standpoint, that doesn't make sense. The numbers just don't add up. But now after having to we're like we get it, you get it. But now you have manned demand combat, which is good, right, totally outnumbered. Yeah, but like doing something. It was so easy to do something for yourself when it's like, hey, honey, can you take Jolie our daughter, be like you got her for a little bit, I'm gonna go do something or all takers so you can go do something. Now, it's like we don't want to leave each other with the two kids three a three year old in a eleven week old. It's like, uh, you're not doing this to me right now, Like, no, you're staying here. So that's what's so difficult right now is trying to be able to manage that. But it's good that you guys have careers and you obviously take care of your relationship because that's I think that period of time is the most important. When I had my third I had three under three, and it was insane I'm but you know what, we had help we got out of the house. I had made sure. Yeah, I mean it's you have to rely on the helps. I think that we have a hard time doing that. But the one mistake I think we made so a year ago, year and a half ago too and I took a trip to the Maldives and it was the longest we had ever been away for the kids and our oldest your fifteen, and we were gone for ten days, which was huge. We had been away for two days, three days, I think one time we went away for four. It was the most incredible thing. And everyone told me to travel when the kids were younger, but we don't have family nearby that we could leave them with, and I just felt uncomfortable. Gosh, I wish we had done it earlier. That's the one mistake I feel like we made. You. I'm telling you should find a way not at eleven weeks, but you know when the baby's like six months old or eight months of sleeping through the night and more of like a baby baby, like do it. We're going, We're going little trips, were going You're talking about like tow three days. We have a wedding, that will be gone in Europe for four But we wanted to stand up, but we didn't because of the kids. But you should. You should take it for me. That's the one thing when I look back, I got gosh, I wish we had done more of that. We blew it and they don't remember. And now I have teenagers and they don't really care. Yeah, now that I get out of here. So there's the sweet spot in between, So take advantage now. Well, I love you. Where can our listeners find your book and all about you? So you can find everything about me at heather to brow dot com. You can find the book wherever books are sold. It's finally back in stock at Amazon and Barnes and Noble, which is cool because it's sold out a couple of times. Did it find? Do Brow diet Interval, Eating to Lose weight and feel ageless? And my podcast heather to Prose World is on podcast one. Who you love it? Well, thank you so much for coming. For Hiring used to be hard, multiple job sites, stacks of resumes, and a confusing review process. But there's one place you can go where hiring a simple, fast and smart, a place where growing businesses connect to qualified candidates. That place is zip recruiter dot com. Zipp recruiter sends your job to over a hundred of the webs leading job boards. But they don't stop there. 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You want as many you want to cast as wide as possible, Right, that's how you find the best people. And that's where zip recruiter comes in. And especially when nowadays it's all about who you know, not what you know. It's like, how are you gonna if you don't know anybody that you can hire for the job, what else are you supposed to do? Exactly? And zip recruiter takes that wide open ocean of fish and give you just the premium fish, exactly what you want. And right now our listeners can try zipp recruiter for free at this exclusive web address, zip recruiter dot com, slash Janna. That's zipp recruiter dot com, slash j a n a zip recruiter dot com slash Janna. Zip recruiter the smartest way to hire toys. On to tell us about noon, which I've heard a lot of great things about, especially when it comes to nutrition and dieting and all that. Tell us a little bit more about it. Yeah, uh, Well, I was an athlete at U C l A. And ever since I stopped and graduated, I've been like, oh my gosh, I don't have a nutrition is It's hard right when you get out of sports, but you can't eat the same stuff you used to not at all. And when you come from an athlete, like you're used to that for so many years, you're like you don't know any different. Or you have like people being like, hey, would you eat this week, and you're like, oh my gosh, accountability, Like I don't have that anymore either. Yeah, and you're like like carbs, carbs, carbs or your team protein. Yeah, You're just like you're in like spandex working out. You're going doing your thing, and then you come back and you just you eat and then you have you talk to you to Chichen is like cut this back, cut the us out at this to your plan, and it's like you just don't have that in the normal world unless you're like a celebrity and like kind of but I can't. I'm we can't do that anymore. Post college kid. Just yeah, we're so co dependent on our on our nutritionists and strength coaches that now we're just stuck. Yeah, you're just stuck. But you don't have to be with new absolutely because with NOM you have personalized training and your own support team for less than the price of a single appointment with the nutritions or personal trainer. Right and all you have to do is you take a thirty second online evaluation. It kind of helps you like with your age, with your weight, with your goals, and um, like any allergies you have. So for me, I'm gluten intolerant, so for me, I might track in so they're like, okay, here's like here's what you should be doing and adding in to counter that or because you do need to have carbohydrates in your system. The people think it's bad, it's actually not and attracts your meal habits. It gives you visualized portion sizes and you can see your calorie density at a glance. Right when you do go a little a little overboard, there's no shaming, just tips on getting back on track tomorrow. So even if you go off your schedule, it's gonna be okay, they'll get you back on track. Yeah, and it's all done from an app. So you have seven with you. So if you have a question on something, you can just message the nutritionists and say hey, here's what I'm thinking about having and they can just have a dialogue hold accountability to that. And people need that nowadays, I know I do. And new mis is on for results. Is that what the old habits in with the new sign up for your trial today at noon n O O M dot com slash Jana, What do you have to lose? Visit noon dot com slash Janna to start your trial today again, that's noon dot com slash Jinna, start losing weight for good. Dr Jen Man is in studio right now with us, and would you like to give your would you say you're I mean, obviously your therapist, but is your are you mainly a sex therapist or is it like what is your I do a lot of different things. Um, She's like, I'm multi I'm pretty I am pretty multifaceted. I actually wrote my doctoral dissertation about eating disorders and weight loss, and it's of an app called No More Diets. It's based on that. That's kind of what I originally started talking about the most um. I've written a parenting column for over ten years. It's printed in tended for magazines. I'm now writing an in style colum about sex and relationships. Most people know me from couples Therapy on v H one or family Therapy on v H one, so I really I've covered it all, and I'm an obsessive researcher I love psychology. I love helping people, So there really isn't a topic that I haven't covered. What's great because kind of I'm like, where do we even start? Because obviously Michael and are extreme open book. I love that I actually do. This is so off topic and random, but I wrote it down just because, um, you've talked about eating disorders and I just have a question anything, So what when is it? How do I say this without I know I don't have an eating disorder. I'm just gonna say that. But I've become obsessive with weighing myself. Is that a problem? It absolutely is, because the problem is that what you're doing then is you're making the focus this external thing. This number do I feel good about myself? Becomes about what the number is on the scale, because literally, if it goes above that one number, I am depressed the rest of the day. And I have to tell you, Look, I am someone who I'm recovered from an eating disorder. I was not well for about a decade. I was an elite level athlete. I was a rhythmic gymnast. I was on the national team for five years. I had a intense, hardcore Russian coach that was like weighing us and screaming at us and doing all kinds of crazy stuff. And after during the course of my eating disorder, I did this like crazy medical liquid diet, and I ended up I bought this talking scale because I was like obsessed like you with weighing myself. And what happened was I got on the scale and it would say like you, and this awful voice it would say, Hi, you wey blah blah blah, and you've gained one pound. Have a nice day. I can still hear that woman's voice in my head, and every day get on and it would say like and you've gained two pounds. And I flipped. And I was eating disordered at the time. Unlike you, I was full blown neating disordered. Wasn't just kind of what we call subclinical eating disorder, which is where you know you're obsessive. You don't meet the criteria for a full blow needing disorder, but it's an issue in your life. But what ended up happening was I became so distraught that the scale kept telling me I was gaining weight that I started eating more because I was so upset, And then I ended up putting on weight. As it turned out, the scale was broken stop. So it was a very valuable lesson about the external, focusing on the external versus the internal. What's really important is what's your relationship with food, like, what's your relations with your body? Like? What your body image like? Are you making healthy choices for yourself that feel good and reinforce things that you want for yourself. I come from a model. I don't believe in deprivation. What tends to happened, and all the studies show the more we deprive ourselves, the more out of control we tend to get with specific foots. So I am a big believer. I love what we call the hunger scale, the hunger scales of scale from zero to ten. Ten being the fullest you've ever been Thanksgiving, your stomach is going to just split open. Zero being you're about to faint, You're going to be on the floor. So five being neutral. I talk a lot about learning to eat when you are hungry, which is a three. It's all like, I know I'm hungry. If you're like I think I'm hungry, I'm not sure. You're probably a four. You can't wait if you let yourself get to two you probably have a headache, your stomach scrowl, and you're not feeling so good. Your energy is not good, and you certainly don't want to get to a one. You want to stop eating when you are five, which is neutral, or a six, which is yeah. I can tell your food myself if I could run down the block if I had to. Once you get to seven, you're full. Eight you're getting uncomfortable. Nine, you're in pain. So what you really want to do to respect your body is to eat when you're hungry a three and stop and you're satisfied, which is a five, and not deprive yourself of foods that you love, because then you're more likely to ban jo on them. I didn't know you we're on the scale that much every morning, and I anytime she jumps on the scale, I'm like, well, don't wear yourself. It's every morning incidents. I'll hide it from me. Is that a problem I can tell because obviously you do hide it for me because I didn't know. And then every time you do get on I'm like, why are you get on scale? What I tell you just you have shame around and you don't want to and you know something we had so our babies. You know, um, you know he's twelve twelve weeks. I don't know when this one's gonna air, but you know he's he's around that. But I just I was so obsessive getting back to my pre pregnancy weight, which is why I started to become like obsessive about the number. But like, sometimes I won't work out because if i'm if I'm too close to that number, I don't want my muscle weight to be to make me way more so that I that's not healthy. The best choice for your body is about working. That's good for your heart, it's good for your muscles, it's good for your strength, it's good for your back, you know, all that sort of stuff. So it's really important that you. I look, I would recommend not weighing yourself. I would lock up that scale and instead focus on how do you feel? Because also looks so what so what if you gain muscle and you're still leaving the number. But but I'm telling you you gotta work on letting go of the number. The number is unhealthy for you. That that obsession about the number. And look, I always say, like when a client comes to my office and says like I feel fat. I always say, like, what do you feel fat about? And so here's the things. I don't feel fat. I don't want to get thinner than a certain I just want to stay at where I'm at right now. So I'm I don't want to get over that number. But the obsession is the same. When a person is obsessing about being fat that isn't fat. It's no different than a person obsessing about a number that doesn't really matter. What you're doing is you're projecting something onto that number. And my question for you is if you weren't obsessing about the number, what would you be thinking about that you might not want to think about, And how would you feel about yourself if you didn't know the number. What's what's more painful that you don't want to think about than that number? I don't want to talk about it. So that's where the answer is, Yeah, well no, it's it's about not I want to be attractive, And I think that goes back to this one, be chosen and be attractive. But you know by me and how many times I tell you that, well, I know I want to stay there. That's even so I'm like, I don't want you under that number. No, I know, and I don't want either. That's why I want to stay there. But I look, I would venture to say, and I've been told we can talk about anything, that it has a very open that what's gone down between the two of you, that that probably felt very out of control for you, And controlling the number is a way of trying to control the bigger picture. If I can control the number, then I'm going to look perfect and I put that in quotes, and then I'll be safe with him and I don't have to worry about him cheating. Interesting, it what even if, like I've never said anything about weight or it's never been an issue. That's what she's making it about, is trying to control one thing that she can control. You can't go through what you guys have gone through and not feel some anxiety about your partner. You know, it's really interesting worry that it's going to happen again. Being very introspective about this is I started weighing myself when you were in treatment. That's very interesting. I got a scale when you were in treatment. Interesting, there you go. You you you projected all your anxiety and all your pain onto that scale and that number and it's not really about that number. I want to just tell you I love you. Well, I just I never thought of it like that. Interesting, Okay, Well, I just I feel like I don't I feel embarrassed. It's embarrassing, yes, but there's nothing to be embarrassed about. There are a lot of women who are going to hear this and relate to you. Yeah, why, but like, I don't want to throw away the scale because it's like, but that that speaks to how hard it is for you to let go of this thing and how important it is for you to work on those feelings and to be able to talk through those in your own therapy or in couples therapy because obviously this issue is not resolved, and that's understandable because that doesn't go away overnight, that kind of breach of trust, and it's important for you, guys to continue to work on the relationship and work on your connection so that you can't feel safe again. I think it's interesting that because in most all the other areas we've addressed head on, we've discussed, we've talked circles around, and we're very mindful of it's like, this is like your one thing that has been like your own secret, so like validate yourself for something to hold on too, that we have an addressed or talked about. Mhm hm and you hit from me, well, I just because I mean not really. I mean you asked how much are you today? And I was like, yes, whatever that. But but first of all, I would recommend don't. That's why I was just about two days ago he said, what are you at? I don't do that often. If I don't know, I'm like, even if I do, I'm like, why are you worried about it? Yeah? You do? Ask yeah? Why? Yeah? I think, yeah, Okay, we move on. It's it's hard to talk about it's it's it's it's painful. I totally got it. Could I just do it like every one so week? Could I do that? Where it's because I want to make sure I'm not I'm like staying. Like my trainer always said, go buy a pair of pants. That's the pants that you would look if you're in touch with your body. You don't need a scale because you know when you feel good, you know when you feel bad, you know when you feel bloated, you know when you've eaten too much. I think right now you're holding on because you're holding onto that control, and that's okay if you're not ready to let go of that. But now you know what it is, and I think when you get on that scale, you're going to look at it a little differently and hopefully that will help you let go of it sooner. Completely interesting what society didn't Now? Are you mad at me? I want to be mad at you. I get it to the girl, Why what do you do wrong? I think she is shame around. She has a lot of shame around, and that's why she hit it from me. That's the secrecy. I'm sorry that you, through all that we've discussed and gone through that a part of you is still so unsure of things that you you still don't think it's unsure. I think it's just back to her because it's just the control of like I have. There's something that I can control. Because I can't control whether you step out. I can't control whether our marriage falls apart, but I can control right. But it still feels like something that um like we've done so much work around that, it's still something that we have an address that you're just trying to have. It's like your own work on the side that I don't know how to explain it. It's like your own thing you're holding onto, like outside of the work that we're addressing this head on, but it's like still something on the side that like you lean onto to make yourself feel better. She's not resolved. Yeah, and it takes time. It takes time to heal. I think it's just you know again, because yeah, it's just it's just a way to have that control and to feel like that and to almost feel like, Okay, I know him here, so he must won't choose me because I'm I'm looking good right now with this. What when you see the number that you want to see? Do you feel better about yourself? Do you feel better about us? I just I'm happier. Does that make sense? I guess yeah. And then if not, that I'm like so depressed and then I'll either not work out because I don't want to add more muffle weight, or I'll just be depressed and then sulk for a couple of hours and then make sure I don't make sure I don't eat as much so that the next morning I can wake up. And it's probably just the water way. It's probably point too of whatever, and then I'll wake up like, oh boom. And I know that our weight varies day by day in our cycle, how much salt we had, how much water we drank, Like I will every way myself after a flight because I know that I'll be more water or this. So it's because and then I'll know I'll get in my head about it. Yeah, you feel better or worse about us, though, depending on what you see on the scale, or is it just like you? I think it's yeah, yeah, that has no correlation to you. It's just I mean, yes, it's correlated with you, but not in that moment. So what do people listening do, because I'm relating so much to what Janna is saying, even in different ways, that manifests in different ways, whether it's weight or linking the lights up and down or totally do and whatever things you do to control, what do people listening do to try to work through it? Well? The first thing is to identify what it's really about the lights, which aren't really about the lights. It's again, it's about control. It's about binding anxiety to look at why are you feeling anxious? What's going on in your life? So that you can actually address it, whether it is having a conversation with someone, whether it is taking better care of yourself, whether it's getting in therapy, whether it's going to a twelve step meaning, whatever it is, that is the underlying issue is what needs to be addressed because that behavior serves a purpose, whether it's obsessing a out an a Verrano scale, or train the lights on and off, or anything else. You know, being a workaholic, a boyfriend not texting you back or like that can throw me. Yeah. I have a colleague who went said to me, no matter how successful a person is, especially a woman, that like when your relationship is falling apart, like you feel like everything is falling apart, that like, it doesn't matter how strong you are, it doesn't matter how accomplished you are. That typically that's something that tends to take us down. You know, are you feeling I'm good, I'm on the next thing, the next thing. Yeah, let's definitely talking about sex, which is which is interesting. So Janna and I today later today have a tantra therapy appointment with a tantra therapist, and so that's going to be for me, probably uncomfortable at first, but I'm excited to give it a try. Yeah, he is a harder time with intimacy, so that's something that he had set up to try to work on intimacy. Of that, that's great because tand a lot of tantric sex. And I wrote what my InStyle column, hump Day with Dr Jen comes out every Wednesday. I wrote one of my columns all about tantric sex. And one of the things that I learned as I was researching was a lot of it is about eye contact and breathing and kind of sinking yourselves as I feel like he's smiling, so it's going to be uncomfortable for him, So how how can we I like him uncomfortable. That's good for your relationship. I like you uncomfortable, not on your scale. I like him uncomfortable having intimacy with you, and we all live happily. Ever after all about stepping out of the comfort zone. That's where the work happens. You know, when we say in our comfort zone, we don't grow, our relationships don't change. We do the same patterns and we mess up in the same ways. So I think it's great to me. You know, I talk a lot in in my book The relationship fix about the whole chapter about how to make amends and about forgiveness, and one of the steps I was talking I talked about the four ours, about showing remorse, about taking responsibility, about recognition, like actually hearing the person talk about the feelings, and remedy, and to me, this is part of remedy. Remedy is a plan. How do how do we not make the same mistake again? What do I do? What boundaries do I initiate? What intimacy do we need to have, What ways do we need to connect to make me less vulnerable to this happen again in the future. And I think this is fantastic. I love that you're doing and I love that you initiated it. I think it's great. Let me ask you this, and this is actually something that fantastic. This is something I'm actually going to bring up with my individual therapists and try to process when I meet with him later this week. But so we talked about on a previous episode. I have an issue. If I initiate something, whether it's sex, whether it's time together, whatever it is, I have no problem with it. But for what, for whatever reason, if Janna initiates it or not even just her, but just someone else initiates and says, hey, do you want to do this? Hey do you want to work out? Hey, she initiates sex or whatever. I have an issue with it. I get uncomfortable. So for this example, just talking to you, if you take two scenarios, she initiates sex more times than not, I might be kind of uncomfortable and not as uh willing or whatever. But if I initiate it, I have no problem. I'm good to go. Like. There's no performance issues, there's no uncomfortableness, there's no anything. So you like to be in control. Yeah, I guess that's what it is, but I don't know. Yeah, is that feeling, that uncomfortable feeling? Is that an old feeling or a new feeling old? How far back does it go? It's the earliest time you can remember it? Um, I mean child Where in your childhood? Seven eight? Maybe then? What was going on? I think it's pay him turned the radio down? No, Um, I think it's just and you know my household it was. You know, I got a fantastic childhood. I don't take anything away from my childhood, but it was still as a child. I don't I never felt like you had much of a voice, where it's just you do what your parents said, you do what my father said. Period, There wasn't if you came from a very authoritarian household, even though you knew you were loved by your parents, you didn't have a locus of control. Right, So it was just I was I was always told what to do. It was never a discussion. I never felt like I could have a saying anything. It's just like you were told what to do and then just I don't know, I think now, I just feel when I've even if it's a suggestion by Janna, Hey do you want to work out later today, it feels like I'm being told what to do. And look, it clearly goes back to your childhood. And you know, chapter four of my book is about childhood. It's all about how your childhood impacts your relationship and the them Why I wrote that is because most people don't realize. And you know, every season on Couples Therapy, I do what we call the relationship trauma session, which is like it generally they've lasted anywhere from four to seven hours of therapy, intensive therapy with all these couples celebrity couples in a room with me talking about their childhoods because it's so eye opening, and it's really in a certain way. It's easy when the trauma is obvious. Oh, if you've been molested, obviously, it's not easy going through that trauma. It's horrific and life altering. But neglect abuse, you know, sexual abuse, all that sort of stuff, people go like, oh, I know this thing happened to me. Obviously, this is going to impact me. Where people don't realize their childhood impacts them is more subtle situations like yours, which is why I wrote about it in the book. It's being in a home where you don't feel understood, where you don't feel seen in her, where you don't feel like you have control over your future. It's more subtle things like a family of divorce that that's so common that people tend to go, oh, it doesn't impact me that much, but it impacts you. So it's it's all those subtle things, And it sounds like that feeling of not having control deeply impacted you, and and as a result, it makes you seek control in different ways in your relationship, even subtle ways that are going to have a negative impact on your wife because if she feels like she can't initiate sext, she can't say, hey, let's go work out. Hey, I you know, I got tickets to this concert. If for you it feels controlling, what happens is she loses control, she she she's got a catchway too. I can't ask for what I want in this relationship, otherwise you can feel controlled. So it makes a whole lot of sense that your control is on the scale right now. Well. So, which is funny because yesterday we were driving back and I said, so, I wanted to ask you to work out today, and I felt like I couldn't even ask you because you were going to say no because it wasn't your idea. So I'm kind of left, like what am I to do? Your arms are tied behind your back because I can't initiate things. I can't say things because you're going to say no because it wasn't your idea. So I don't know how I'm supposed to come to you with things. And I go, now, I'm just kind of confused, which I haven't. And we talked about this yesterday, which I haven't. I don't always say no if she brings something to me and she senses your energy, I can do just from being here for ten seconds. She's incredibly attuned to you and super hyper sensitive to you. You blink the wrong way and she is he in her head going Okay, what's going on with him? What's he doing? Why is he feeling this way? How is it going to impact our relationship? She's super in tune with you, so she's going to pick up on even if you say yes, the process that goes on in your head, She's gonna pick up on your energy about it. So you've got work to do here in order to be a giving, loving, open partner. And I can't help but wonder if on some level the affair had to do with control, because it puts you in a position where you have more control in your relationship because it creates so much anxiety with your partner up, Is you can do it again? Is you gonna leave me so you can have bad boundaries? What do I have to do to keep this relationship in check? Yeah? I mean, yeah, I'm sure there, you know, especially with what I was going through in my own world with depression and transitioning into different life and career and all that stuff. When we first met that, yeah, I felt like I had no control over anything. I was just along for the ride. So there's definitely some truth behind that. How do I go about asking or because I just want to spend time with them, I just want to hang out with them, you know, I just want to go to lunch or work out or you know, if I I have a hard time initiating because I haven't turned down a lot of times from him, So it's it's really hard for me to initiate because I'm so afraid to get turned on and then which will then trigger the trauma of not being chosen. And so I don't do that often, which i'd like two more, but I feel so uncomfortable because I'm so afraid of being turned down. And in the entire time, it's like, oh, I know in his head, he feels like he has to because if not, then I'm gonna feel not chosen, I'm gonna feel turned down, I'm going to feel all these things. So I don't know how how do I approach something as simple as hey, do you want to work out with me? To initiating sex without having to have that anxiety I'm going to give you some advice that you're gonna hate. It's going to be very challenging, but is going to be life changing for you. What I want your energy on this to be is great. Bring on the rejection. I can handle it. Bring it on, uh, and it is just an opportunity for me to work on myself and to be strong and to build myself up. I don't need his yes to feel good about me, and I welcome the rejection and bring it on. Come to him if that energy, have that energy within yourself and be less attached to the outcome, because what we want to do is give you your control back. That you can't ask is a problem. All you can do is change your side of that problem. He's got to do the work in his individual therapy so that he can learn to to say to say yes, or or even to say no, and to do it in a gracious, loving way. But what he has done is he has basically created a dynamic in your relationship where you feel the way he felt growing up. He couldn't ask. His parents were in control, he had to do whatever they said. You're in a situation now where you can't ask. He's in control, and you can't get your needs man, So all you can do is change your side and then have faith that he will work on his side. What if it doesn't change, then you'll have a decision to make h whether you want to be in a relationship with someone who is withholding, and if it goes that long unwilling to work on the issue, which isn't the case, which again, is willing to work on which even when you when you've asked things, I'll even say yes. Maybe I still will feel uncomfortable, but I'll say yes because I know what's something she wants. But but also what I want you to start to do is say yes, and not only because it's something you want, but because you want to work on yourself and you want to live life on different terms. Because as long as your childhood is dictating how you react to her, and you're coming from that place of someone else is in control, I have to get control by saying no, I have to be withholding. You're trapped in your childhood and ins way, You're a victim of your childhood for sure. And I've told this to Janna when we don't have the same sexual she used as we have in the past. But I told her even when we were having intimacy issues in that in the bedroom, it's like, I don't want this, like I don't want this to be my issue. I want to want to be so open minded and comfortable and be able to have sex, to do this or do that without any issue. So I want those things, but sometimes I think I'm also afraid of It's like the whole breakup scenario. It's like, I want you to want to do the dishes. It's like, sometimes there's gonna be things I might not want to do, but I do them because I know it's important to her. That's okay. Sometimes you take one for the team. We'll see sometime sometimes I might get the energy from Janna where because I don't have the same enthusiasm, I don't have the same you know whatever about that situation that it's not enough for her, that me just doing it isn't enough for her. That I have to want to do that as well. So it's and and and that's where your work is that that you have to work on that in order to get to an enthusiastic yes. Sometimes you have to get a lukewarm yes, And that's okay, But embrace it like reward the positive behavior. He says, yes, even if you sense a hesitation, that's okay. This is a guy who wants to grow. Help him grow, he says, yes, embrace it. What will be you think his path to trying to not have that uncomfortable nous when I'm at when I asked him to do something with me, He's got to work with his childhood, because this is not about you. This is about his childhood. This is about feeling powerless. This is about feeling like he had to do what he was told, and so he's starving for control, so he doesn't want you to have any When he is able to work through that, he won't be so starving for control, and he also will feel more powerful as a man. And when he feels that way, he can say yes. He can say no. And it's not about withholding. It's not about power and control. It's about I view and yeah, great, let's do it. And it's not about like a task or I'm telling him what to do, which I Finally, I've gotten to the point in our relationship where I can say no, because for a long time I didn't say no, and then resentment built up because against her, which is not her fault because it's just me not speaking how I really felt. Yeah, and it's you know, and I've told Janna too, it isn't just my issue with this isn't just towards Janna. It's been with teachers in my life, has been with coaches that I've had my entire life. It's been with just any authoritative figures that have always been one of those guys that just quick trigger to defend myself because I'm just not a big fan of authority and people telling me what to do. And when you grow up in a household like yours that was more of an authoritarian household, you tend to be more sensitive to that, and you tend to have a response that's about the rebellion as opposed to what's in my best interest? What do I really want to do? It become just kind of a trigger now, yeah, right, Yeah, And I think on the flip side, when I'm told the know or rejected, that just goes into the trauma of the past. But we have to build you up so that you're just like create bring it on. Yeah, I can handle rejection. I'm such a strong woman. Your no isn't isn't going to tear me down. I think it'll always Unfortunately, Yes, I think I've gotten better with that, but I think it's always gonna be there no matter what. Just that little piece of not But there's a different But there's a difference between I really wish he was in the mood too, and that I'm not the chosen. The I'm not the chosen is about the trauma of the past between the two of them and that that we need to clean up. So it's so it's a pure response that just like damn, I was hoping to have sex and he's not up for it. Okay, I'll go take care of myself. Yeah, maybe next time. It feels uh unfortunately, like when I when I hear that, like when she still feels that way about something I said. Know too, that makes me sometimes want to get offensive and say, well that just seems like you're focusing on the things I'm not doing as opposed to things that I am doing. What about the fact, And then I want to like keep score in a sense of well, we just had sex yesterday and I just did this with you. I just we just cut it on the couch. You know what about those things that I'm doing, and why you focus on this one thing and I just get all worked up and I'm like and like one of the things that I recommend for you guys, and talk about this a lot in the relationship fis in chapter one about communication is create a culture of appreciation in your relationship. Really, like a lot of the time couples don't thank each other for the things they take for granted, Oh gonna thank you so much for taking out the trash. We do that. Yeah, And I love that you put that in your book too. Is I agree with you that I think a lot of and there's just a lot of friends of mine too, they forget to thank their spouses for the little things that are so that are important. But I'm hearing that he doesn't feel fully recognized for the things that he's doing, the efforts that he's making. So I would recommend your gratitude. It's too. It's two things. It's one. I'll feel that because yes, maybe because the fact that she is is feeling a certain way or complaining about something I didn't do, then it makes me feel that way. But also the other half of is me because we actually just talked about this with some of the other day, like a week ago, is we'll thank each other for the small test. Hey, thanks for emptying the dishwasher, thanks for doing this. Those are mindless things that you just do as an adult anyway, and but we won't accept that from one another. Like if Janna says, hey, thanks for empty and dishwashing, I'm like, care, but you don't have to thank me, just say thank you. We both do that. The impression is that, well, first of all, both of you need to say you're welcome. Yeah, welcome. It's hard for us for whatever, recognizing that. That's cool. I really appreciate that. But it sounds like you get recognized for the dishwasher, but maybe a little bit less for your emotional reaches. I don't know. I feel like I I mean, if you if if that's true, then I then I apologize because I feel like I do a pretty good job of, you know, saying thank you for working on yourself, thank you for you know, showing up today. You do a great job. So she does. That's the thing. She does validate my the times that I am connected or intimate or whatever. It's just any time I have such an issue again, that goes back since I was a child of not feeling good enough that I have such a great issue with that where if I hear one thing, if I get triggered in my trauma and think it's triggered and she's like, you know, why don't you want to be intimate or she's not feeling a certain way, then I'm like, okay, so everything I've been doing isn't good enough? Everything Like that's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying, can you just hear me in this one moment right now where I'm just saying, I just in this moment, I don't feel chosen and that's my stuff. But I'm just saying in that, what do you do to help her feel safe and comfortable and loved in the relationship. Let's say you're not in the mood for a sex, that's okay, but what do you do or do you just get defensive and go like, but I do all these other things. I used to be straight to defensive now would blow blow us up. But now I'm able. We're both able to more times than not be understanding, like I'm really sorry you don't feel chosen. Just let you know like I do love you I do choose you, and now I'm just I'm sorry, I'm just not maybe in that particular mood. But you know that's cool. Can we do something else? Can we just lay together or whatever? And that's something that I still need to get better at. Spoon you for two hours. It's because he did. Yeah, but but unfortunately it's here you go straight to the You do that a lot, where you go straight to the everything. It's not it's not everything, it's you get to that point. And then I still have the the internal fear of Okay, see I say no, and I do those things. I validate her feelings and I say hey, let's just cut on the couch. Then in the back of mind mine that I'll start thinking like this is still not enough because she wanted this, but it would be enough for me. That's the things to do I have to then, and let's just say it wasn't. Let's just say you're like, hey, I'm not in the mood for let me, let's let's spoon let's go lay on the couch together, let me hold you, let me kiss you. I want I want you to know I love you, and I want you to feel loved even though I'm not in the mood, and you spoon her and you have a connected time and it's still not enough. That's okay. We don't necessarily always meet every single need perfectly of our partner, but you're still you're filling her love tank even if it's not full. Let's say you're filling it halfway. That's pretty good. That counts for something. It's not all or nothing. You know, as as as as an athlete, you tend to think in black and white terms, either you win or you lose it. But it's not that way. In relationships. There are a lot of shades of gray, and filling the tank is a positive. Don't under estimated it. Adds like that. I think that's school because I think all or nothing. I mean, what's what's perfect? You know what's not Every night is going to be a candle night of us. You know, having the most intimate sometimes it might just be holding a hand might just be enough. But at least you're showing up in that way for that day. And like we talked about on a previous episode, is say I said that, so she wants to have sex, right, And I say, hey, I'm just not really in the mood right now, like let's just cuddle or let's just lay on the couch together or laying bed together. I will if she's super accepting of that, it says, okay, I understand, like I'll do let's just do that in fifteen minutes, I'll probably want to have sex well because all because also what happens is it takes the pressure off. And I think that part of what you're looking for, but part of what part of what you're the reparative experience you're looking for in your relationship is I can say no to quote unquote authority because you project onto her, she becomes the authority. Because we project our parents onto our partners is kind of what we do. So what your craving is for the authority to say it's okay you. You don't have to do what I say. I still love you anyway, I still accept you. I still want to be with you. This is safe, this relationship is safe. We're good. And I think that when you feel that from her, when she doesn't get reactive and doesn't go like, what do you mean you don't want to have sex to me? And I'm not I'm not the chosen one. And you pick someone else, and then you walk down that historic, painful lane. Then you go up. I have to do I have to do what authority says. Oh that sucks, like I'm back in my childhood. But if she's able to go, yeah, I totally get it. You're not always in the mood. That's cool. Hey, Like, let's let's cuttle up together and you're able to go. I feel so lucky that I have such a sexy, beautiful wife. I want you to know I choose you. Let's just boon like, I want you to know that you are loved, and let's connect. I'm just kind of not in a sex mood. You will both. Her anxiety goes down. You feel like you don't have to do what you're told, which frees you up to actually maybe even want to do what's been requested of you in a genuine, authentic way. And everyone see, I hear that. That struck a chord though with me, just her saying, like, you know, just feeling still supported, supported and love just or whatever, just because I don't agree with something or I don't follow what I feel like I'm being told, Yeah, just go, that's important part of his healing it. Yeah, this is really big for him. Yeah, okay, so she because I'm trying to put myself in her position too. So let's say she kind of is beling flirty and wants to be intimate with Mike, and she's leading him there. Will it land okay on her? When he says, Hey, I'm not in the mood right now, let's just cuddle on the couch. Could she interpret it as he doesn't want me, he doesn't think I'm hot, but not that it's true. But her job, like I said before, is to embrace rejection, to go bring it on. I can handle it. I am strong, I am powerful. I know I'm amazing. Whether he wants to have sex with me in this moment or not, like, that's her work, and that's also the work that will free her to say that's cool, baby, like maybe we can find another way to connect. And it also that's what will free him up to to make a choice based not on rebelling against his childhood, but based on what he actually ultimately wants, because he doesn't know what he wants. So I hear that, I also want to say, I I'm afraid now that I might play mind games with I'll say all right, good night, you know, in hopes that he'll then want to sleep with me or but if you're doing that, then you're not doing what I'm recommending right then, and that's not what's going to heal this right right, No, I know. But but also it's it's about that's about manipulating, that's about game playing. I'm like, I'm gonna say no, so he'll say yes, you're you're still then playing with the authority thing in his history, and he's going to sense it unconsciously. So just like you're in tune with him, he's in tune with you. Gen Man, You're amazing, and I want our listeners to also get um your help. Yes, So for everyone listening right now, if you like, seriously, nothing is off limits, whether it's sex, family, anything, relationship wise, or you know, literally literally anything. UM Gentleman is the best therapist. So please email us at wind down at I Heart radio dot com. Member Wine is w h I n E. So wind down I Heart radio dot com and give us your phone number and we will call you on air and gen Man will talk to you and help answer your questions. We have one. We have an email from UM from Cassie, can we read an email? Absolutely. Uh, it's called climbing the Hill. I'm listening to your podcast at the beginning, and where you offered to talk about sex. Is there a topic about not being able to climb the hill. I'm very happily married to my husband of seven months and we've been together for almost four years. Sex is absolutely great, but I've never been able to get Yes, she's not getting to fruition, is what she's saying. Yeah, go vibe vibrator. They're great. But it also sounds like she wants to have the experience with with her partner. And and so here here's my recommendation, a few recommendations for her. One is I'm assuming, since she's not saying that's an issue, that she's able to get there by herself. So one thing I recommend is have her husband watch how she gets herself there herself, because watching that technique. And you know, sometimes a lot of the time I had people and I wrote a whole column all about this. All at the time, women feel uncomfortable, like, you know, somehow men are kind of brought up and like, oh, yeah, we do that, whereas women tend to have more shame around this. This is not just about him watching like, oh are you sexy when you do this or not? This is about him actually learning where on your body, which side of you, which which angle are you sitting up? Are you rubbing against something? Like what is it that you're doing to get there? And then looking at how can we recreate this, whether it's a different position when you're having intercourse, or whether it is bringing in a little vibrator, or whether it is him doing stuff to her beforehand and then at the last minute going there. So there are a lot of different ways to get there, but one of the most important things, Yeah, he needs to exactly he needs to study the map so that he can help her to get there. And that's an important part of sex because it's we make a lot of assumptions about how we're supposed to get there, but the truth is that we have to know our partner's body and everyone is different and I think women in particular are incredibly complex in what gets us there. Dr jen Man. Dr jen Man has the Relationship Fix. It's Dr jen six Step Guy to improving communication, connection, intimacy. You can get this book anywhere right and then again, email your questions to wind down at i heeart Radio dot com. Any sex questions and send us your number if you want us to call you on air and Dr Jenn you'll be back right I would help answer my pleasure. Awesome, Thank you so much for coming in. Thanksure. You know we're moving. We're moving into the new house mark right summer, and we have so many boxes back in Nashville storage. Still, we have so many pictures and boxes here in l A. And it's like we're trying to It's like spring cleaning anytime you move anyway, right, So we're trying to consolidate things. So do you have any advice on what to do with all this stuff? It's like we're kind of pack racks within the thousand things where we don't want to get rid of it. At such a great moment last Sunday, and I was taken out the garbage because Monday is garbage day Newberry Park. And in that garbage that I took out to the street where half a dozen VHS cassettes and I was so happy to get rid of those vhs because that's because they've been in a cardboard box in the garage literally of my entire adult life, my high school graduation, my high school chorus concerts. Yes, yes, my high school I was a drummer too, so the band concerts. What else was in there? A play I did in high school? Uh? My, the show I did at disney Land, that who Wants to Be a Millionaire Show? There was some of those shows in there. I was the host of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire showt Disneys, California anyway, So I sent those to Lexi Box. They sent me back to things discs galore and thumb drive plug thumb drive in there's everything. All of my tapes very in quality, by the way, not legacy boxes fault. These are thirty year old VHS tapes. The quality varied, and I get it. Oh my wife's um, she was junior. Miss you have someone else other than just your marks, like none of my kids. This is Marks box, Baby, I don't all stuff, and now I have it all. And also, and this is not something they advertise, but I think this is cool. Each one isn't forty gigs. You know, they're actually compressed in a way that it doesn't take up a huge amount of space on your computer. But they're perfectly clear and perfectly enjoyable. And it's so fun to see my high cool graduation which actually didn't know it was on that tape. I never thought i'd see that again, and there it was. It was really cool. So I am a strong proponent of Legacy Box. You guys gotta jump on the Legacy boxes. Mark is all about it. Go get your year old highlight tapes and concerts and all that stuff. Don't worry about everyone else. It's just get your stuff saved. Like Mark, it's gonna be okay. And audio cassettes, old radio and tapes I made with a friend when I was kid. Yeah, all done. You gotta get all this stuff. You canna put this on Legacy Box too. I guess you have all these on digital now. Yeah, that's true. Nowadays a change. Lexi Boxes the world's largest most trusted digitizer at home movies and photos. Over four during fifty tho families have trusted Legacy Box like Mars. There's over a decade of experience and all the work is done by hand right here in the US. And Plus, for a limited time, they're offering our listeners an exclusive discount. Go to Lexi box dot com. Slash Janna to get off your first order, go to legacy box dot com, slash Janna and say today get started preserving your past. You've got some good emails, actually have some really good emails. I have so many good emails it's hard for me to pick just one or two, maybe three. Um, okay, let me start with this one. My husband and I failmed a routine of work and then playing video games for stress release. One night, I told him I would like to have sex in an hour, and he said, okay, it's interesting. I shave my legs, I got all pretty, I put on lingerie, I lit candles in the room, came out to the living room and stood in front of him. He fell asleep. He lightly nudged me out of the way and told me to get out of his waist so we could finish his game. I was so hurt by this. I broke down in tears. I took his Xbox and I threw it off the balcony. Can he have a full blown addiction to Xbox? How do I address this? And how do I compete with his Xbox? I think you have addressed this. I smashed it with a hammer, So that was there was an addiction. When I when Jolie was napping, I took it. I took his Xbox, his PlayStation. Mind you. My band guys were so mad at me. Why did you do that? Why didn't you just give it to us? I was like, because I had to take out my aggression, took a hammer and just went to town. Um. And then then then I got monkey from her nap. Also, what's warpsetting? And she shaved her legs for this, So yeah, Dina Carter Um Michael, do you think there's an addiction to it? I'm just curious. I'm like, you're because I I think they're deaf. What prompted you to do that? Was it? You just he was so obsessed with it. He played it all the time. It was it was around the discovery of everything. Oh okay, and so there's there's more to it than just me playing it and I you know, but it was it was it was one of those things I'm eating. Really really they are really good. Um yeah, I mean I think guys can addiction. I think so too. There's a reason we don't have video games in my house. I'm looking it up right now, But I think that with my nephews were like they've done because she's like very to all this and she's like, no, we like took it out of the house for like three weeks, no phones, no nothing, and she's like they literally went through withdrawals video gaming addiction therapy. I would ignore my wife and kids if I had a video game and I can't have it, I just can't. I know me, I know I'm have an addictive personality. I can't do it. Um feelings of restlessness and or a bill when you're unable to play. So for some reason, someone you know, what if you didn't have your iPad, Like I can't sleep, I have to like play my iPad or look at my pad. Well I'm just okay, but you know, I mean, I can admit if I didn't on my phone, it's like it got for two weeks, I would have this. Yeah. She was like my nephew started crying. She was like he literally like was not open your occupation with thoughts of previous online activity or anticipation in the next online session with your buddies, lying to friends or family members regarding the amount of time spent playing. It's an addiction that sounds like me watching how did you react when she did this where you're kind of like, she needs to do what she needs to do. Oh, I mean I did it when he was gone. You came out a bag of Xbox parts. Yeah, I mean I kind of anticipated. I didn't say anything about it. And it's been one of those things where, by the way, this is sounding like I just randomly took your Xbox. I said that was after it was after discovery and everything. I mean you were in treatment, yes, yeah, so that's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's where I was very upset. So that's yeah, yeah, so there's more to it for us. But it's one of those things where, you know, even my buddies who have a bunch of buddies that still play, some have young kids, most don't that are still able to play, So it's like, you know, do you ever want to get back on I'm like, yeah, because it's fun with my buddy, especially because all my buddies are back East. But it doesn't even matter even if I had it, I don't have time. So it's and like you said, like it would be a distraction where it's like you try to make time. So I can see where the people can get addicted but a strong have time. So what was your game? Everything? I would play everything, I think for our kids though, I mean, you know, because I've seen our kids, you know, our our girlfriend right well, I mean all them, the boys, they play video games, and I don't know. I'm not saying I'm not going to have it in the house because I think that's naive of me to say that, because I think it's a good distraction. It's just like putting the TV on for them. But I think there has to be a time limits, especially nowadays with the way it's consuming people. But I was watching something I thought was interesting. It was it's called like Seven Days Out. It's like the series on Netflix that talks about like the Westminster Dog Show, like going into that the opening of the world's number one restaurant in New York. And one of them, one of them was this Gaming Tournament or whatever. And Rick Fox, the old l a Laker, he owns one of the teams that plays in this legal legends like gaming tournament. And his son like when he was raising his son, like he tried him in all the sports, like you know, it's like, you know, he played professional basketball, like put us on basketball football, This or whatever just to get him to do something. But when it came down to it, video of games is what he really enjoyed his son, and he was like, well, I can't force him to do anything. He tried everything, and this is what he enjoys. So instead of making his son do something, he conformed to his son. It's like, you know what, this is how we spend time, this is how I teach him lessons, or this is whatever. So it's still something I appreciate that, especially coming from a professional athlete who everyone has that stigma of like they're gonna want their si, their sons or whatever to make sure they play in this and that. He was just like, no, this is what my son's into. You know what. I'm going to get into that too. So now he plays with his son, he owns a professional gaming team and stuff. So IM not saying I would do that or people should do that, but I just thought it was interesting mindset to have as opposed to just making your son do something. If we talked about whether your son would be able to play football, if you got to play football like daddy, I will not. Yeah, I have the stance of I'm not gonna make him or encourage, but I'm not going to stop him. But what age though, because they say that if you too soon, is too is dangerous. Yeah. Fortunately, nowadays, like we were talking about this recently, like back when I played, you were wearing full pads at like seven years old, eight years old. Nowadays they don't. A lot of places don't have that where it is flag football until a certain age. I wouldn't let him play tackle football. I was twelve when I started, and now I was even back you know, in the in the nineties, and my parents didn't let me play until us twelve, So I would probably have a similar rule, no tackle football until twelve years old, was six seventh grade and then go from there. By the way, I feel like we got kind of off base, and I just want to say I'm sorry to the reader or sorry to the listener who wrote that email, because that's that mustn't really suck to have done all that, gone through that and have been turned down like that. That you have every right to have been upset. Yeah, and hopefully you guys can just set some everything boundaries around. But I I do believe in the addiction of SAMs for sure, Right that's an issue but he needs to realize he has an issue with it. Especially it's not like she just randomly came up to him and tried to surprise him. Where if you try to interrupt someone whether they're doing something they enjoy, I can see why maybe you maybe dismiss him and don't want to be interrupted. But she said I want to have sex in it out and he's like okay, and he was cool, and then he was still dismissed. That's I hate that bad playing your part, dude. This is Caitlin who has kind of a reverse situation of yours. Caitlin's as I had a nine month long affair with a woman and it's been almost an entire year of my husband and I'm working on our marriage. I love my husband more than he'll ever know, and those nine months were a very dark time for me. During the last year, I've been doing anything and everything I can think of to prove to my husband I love him and want to be with only him. Overall, I think he's doing very well, but there are still time when he's sad for no reason and almost anything can trigger him. So my question is, what do you guys do in those moments? Mike, how do you handle Jane and support her during those times? And Jana, what does Mike do for you that actually works and helps you get through it and see that he's genuine because she wants to be seen as genuine to her husband. Well, I appreciate you putting the work in. I think that's awesome. And I think unfortunately she said it with nine months ago it was a nine month affair. It's been how long? Um, it's been almost a year? You most year. It's just it's time. I mean time and consistency. So for me, how I know Mike loves me is because he's showing up and he's being consistent with his actions. And when he's constant with his actions and consistent in what he does and what he says and how he treats me, and that things kind of equal out, then it makes me feel chosen. It makes me feel like he's doing the right thing. Yeah, And I mean we are work coming up on three years post and I have a hard time with that though, because I for us, it's I really just see it the past year. Correct. But but just for this argument sent sake of where she's at, it's been almost a year and think about where we were a year out. It's like it was. I mean, we still had a lot of work to do. Yeah, I guess I still had a lot of work to do myself. So you know, it's just been in the last yeah, yeah, ten months, twelve months, I mean year basically that it's basically been, yeah, year, almost a year. Um that we've really now since however, so however that's almost year yeah, sorry, Um, so it's still, like Janna said, is just going to take consistent, consistency over time. That's it. There's no quick fix unfortunately no. And for her, she's got to try to grieve with him. And that's the thing. When Janna would be able to see my pain that it hurt me to what the things that happened. I haven't said that to you. Last night I brought up to him, I said, what might help me sometimes because we are getting so far away from it is And he's like, you know, if you think about it every so often, I'm like, I know, I think about it every day, and I just don't tell you every day that I think about it. I don't think about it as many times as I used think about it severity, but I think about it at least comes in my brain at least once a day, and it's my it's my growth to be able to let it go in and let it go out and not let me go down the rabbit hole. But what I said, what might help me, I go, you know what would help me is I didn't know. I don't know that you have those days too. Would be nice to know that you have days of shame or days of and then I can we can be we can what's that word like? We can grieve together? Can grieve together? Yeah, And she may think in this email, she may think that if she brings that she she may be feeling that stuff, but not bring it up because and this is how I would feel. I wouldn't bring it up because wouldn't want to trigger it and bring it to Jan's intention when really she's thinking about it all the time, especially at that point. So bring it to him and share with him how you're feeling about it, and that might soften him be like, oh, wow, you do really care. There's probably a whole another aspect for him too, because it was with a woman, So maybe for him he's like, yeah, that'd be tough. He's probably very confused, and there's probably a lot going on in there. I mean I would when you be confused, if Ty wasn't the guy, I would be and then came back and then I would just I'm sure I would. I feel like she needs to be really understanding of like what, like how's going on in his Do you think that's more hurtful? Is it fair to say one it's fair to one is more horful than the other. I really don't. I don't think it's more. I don't think it's fair to say, well, you didn't love any of the people you're with, or they she didn't love this person. It was just a quick fix. It's I don't think any of those there's no amount of pain. Also, it's nine months. I mean it wasn't a one night stand. Yeah, yeah, so I mean that too. I think that's just hard. In the extra layer of so you still do start to earn trust back, but it's like you're not just worried about the one sex, You're worried about her making a new girlfriend. You're hanging out with this female more and you guys are just friends. But get the trust back, But does she always been back? In my mind? Does she really even want to be with me? Men? In general? It's interesting. I'd like to end of the light lighter. This is from Brittany, and this is hilarious. Six years ago, I fell off a bar stool and broke my collar bone and was prescribed pain medication that made me the most emotional and crazy human I've ever been. I guess one night I tweeted Janet Ramer sucks live. Thank you. I remember. I remember the next day looking at my phone and seeing that Janet tweeted me back, and a lot of her fans did. And when I first thought I had no idea what was going on, I don't remember tweeting that at all, but apparently I did. I would like to apologize for tweeting her six years ago that she sucks live. I'm so sorry. First of all, don't be sorry, Brittney, We've been look. First of all, love you. I'm I'm glad that I retreated you. I'm sorry if anyone anyone remain to you, but I probably did. I mean, I'm not the greatest live, so I do kind of suck live. Challenge challenge I've always said, and this is completely unbiased, don't you see service again coming out. I think you're one of the best live performers I've seen period, hands down over every all the you know shows I've been to with you. I think you are hands down one of the best where even some of your songs you perform live. I like that version better than the album. Thanks, I completely he's your husband check with somebody who's not your husband. Incredible. She brings the energy every single time. Well, I I was funny, but now Brett Brett, It's all good girl. It's you know, we all do things. We all have the ambient tweets, right, it's all good. She was drawn, she was, but she was mixing. Yeah. That On that note, a huge thank you to open Fit. You will get full access to open Fit totally free when you text Janna to zip Recruiter. Try zip recruiter for free at this exclusive website, zip recruiter dot com slash Janna, Visit noon dot com slash Janna to start your child today, and last, but not least, our favorite, Legacy Box. Go to legacy box dot com slash Janna to get off your first order. I'm it's gonna stop talking because apparently I suck. So you're saying under the sea last night. Alright, let's wind down again next week. Guys, that fun