Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The velvets Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson.

Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's The velvets Edge Podcast with Kelly Henderson.

Machio Clerk is here. Did I say that right?

Machio Clerk is here. Did I say that right?

You did?

You did?

I asked you for an easy pronunciation for a Southern girl, and you laughed. How would you pronounce your name?

I asked you for an easy pronunciation for a Southern girl, and you laughed. How would you pronounce your name?

It's a Dutch name and dutchess Mahio Mariu clerk.

It's a Dutch name and dutchess Mahio Mariu clerk.

Okay.

Okay.

At the moment I stepped on the US soil, I had to give up that my name's pronunciation, so Michael or anything that comes close to it.

At the moment I stepped on the US soil, I had to give up that my name's pronunciation, so Michael or anything that comes close to it.

Okay, Well, I'll practice. I like the way you say it, and I apologize that I cannot say it that way. Seems like it would take a little practice for me. But you are a licensed mental health therapist and international speaker, a dream worker and author, and a social entrepreneur. I told you I've been reading your book Dream Guidance, and so that's why you're here today to talk to us about this book. I am fascinated by the world of dreams, and I love the idea of dreams as a spiritual practice. I had never thought of it that way, but I am a very avid dreamer. I have dreams that often will happen in the future, which kind of freaks me out and I don't really know what to do with So maybe you can help me navigate that a little bit today. But let's start for the listeners with how you got even involved or interested in using dreams as a spiritual practice.

Okay, Well, I'll practice. I like the way you say it, and I apologize that I cannot say it that way. Seems like it would take a little practice for me. But you are a licensed mental health therapist and international speaker, a dream worker and author, and a social entrepreneur. I told you I've been reading your book Dream Guidance, and so that's why you're here today to talk to us about this book. I am fascinated by the world of dreams, and I love the idea of dreams as a spiritual practice. I had never thought of it that way, but I am a very avid dreamer. I have dreams that often will happen in the future, which kind of freaks me out and I don't really know what to do with So maybe you can help me navigate that a little bit today. But let's start for the listeners with how you got even involved or interested in using dreams as a spiritual practice.

Well, I've always had intense dreams and had a natural inclination to somehow believe that there was something to it or something in it. Yet really, in my early twenties, I was in a pit, a dark place in my life where I had not dealt well with the grief about losing my father, who died when I was ten. I didn't know what to do with my future. If I imagined my future was just completely black, and I was mainly sitting on the couch doing nothing, which I thought would be great, which turned out not to be great. And so that really was a depressive place with no purpose and no future vision and riddled by grief that I didn't even know how severe it was. And then by some fortunate circumstances, I stumbled upon the works of Carl Jung in the year is this Western psychologist that wrote extensively about dreams, and so I used his work to look at my own dreams, and I started to see how my own dreams formed somewhat of a psychic psychological x ray of what really went on inside of me, and both the things that were dysfunctional as inclinations of my own soul that were moving towards a certain direction, and if I could align with the impulses or characters my soul that were doing interesting things and look at the shadow that I had, I started to get a threat that helped me to climb out of the pit. And getting out of that pit, life became much more colorful, interesting, a sense of purpose, and of course life goes up and down, but to have a sense of meaning and purpose is so great that I've ever since held onto the world of dreams and been exploring that's wrong.

Well, I've always had intense dreams and had a natural inclination to somehow believe that there was something to it or something in it. Yet really, in my early twenties, I was in a pit, a dark place in my life where I had not dealt well with the grief about losing my father, who died when I was ten. I didn't know what to do with my future. If I imagined my future was just completely black, and I was mainly sitting on the couch doing nothing, which I thought would be great, which turned out not to be great. And so that really was a depressive place with no purpose and no future vision and riddled by grief that I didn't even know how severe it was. And then by some fortunate circumstances, I stumbled upon the works of Carl Jung in the year is this Western psychologist that wrote extensively about dreams, and so I used his work to look at my own dreams, and I started to see how my own dreams formed somewhat of a psychic psychological x ray of what really went on inside of me, and both the things that were dysfunctional as inclinations of my own soul that were moving towards a certain direction, and if I could align with the impulses or characters my soul that were doing interesting things and look at the shadow that I had, I started to get a threat that helped me to climb out of the pit. And getting out of that pit, life became much more colorful, interesting, a sense of purpose, and of course life goes up and down, but to have a sense of meaning and purpose is so great that I've ever since held onto the world of dreams and been exploring that's wrong.

Yeah, So you mentioned Carl Jung and what about his work. I know a little bit about it, But what helped really kind of bridge that that territory for you or where did you Why did you take his work and your work as a therapist and then move into the dreaming specifically.

Yeah, So you mentioned Carl Jung and what about his work. I know a little bit about it, But what helped really kind of bridge that that territory for you or where did you Why did you take his work and your work as a therapist and then move into the dreaming specifically.

Because his work made the most sense to me. He wrote concept that he brought into the world that are usual well known or ideas around shadow work, synchronicity, archetypes, and collective unconscious and really an idea about the human psyche that is layered and that there are layers that we all share and that we can access and that's contain insight and information. And so it was a type of psychology that really spoke to me. And what it did for me is I lived in a very narrow world. I didn't really know whether there was a life after death or not, which had become important because my dad died. I was missing my dad chronically, and when I started looking at dreams, they manifested themselves as if life goes on, it seems not to be bothered by the end. And so I had dreams in which I reconnected with my dad and that was of course life changing for me. But even the notion that life might go on after death gives a lot of meaning to life, because then at once it becomes what might be a criteria at dying that die at that moment that is important. And then I started to know it seems to have to do with consciousness and development, bringing your gifts into the world. Once you're aligned with bringing your gift into the world, life gets colorful.

Because his work made the most sense to me. He wrote concept that he brought into the world that are usual well known or ideas around shadow work, synchronicity, archetypes, and collective unconscious and really an idea about the human psyche that is layered and that there are layers that we all share and that we can access and that's contain insight and information. And so it was a type of psychology that really spoke to me. And what it did for me is I lived in a very narrow world. I didn't really know whether there was a life after death or not, which had become important because my dad died. I was missing my dad chronically, and when I started looking at dreams, they manifested themselves as if life goes on, it seems not to be bothered by the end. And so I had dreams in which I reconnected with my dad and that was of course life changing for me. But even the notion that life might go on after death gives a lot of meaning to life, because then at once it becomes what might be a criteria at dying that die at that moment that is important. And then I started to know it seems to have to do with consciousness and development, bringing your gifts into the world. Once you're aligned with bringing your gift into the world, life gets colorful.

Right, So, okay, you mentioned the word consciousness a few times. When you're dreaming, What is that your subconscious? Is that unconscious? What is guiding your dreams?

Right, So, okay, you mentioned the word consciousness a few times. When you're dreaming, What is that your subconscious? Is that unconscious? What is guiding your dreams?

Beautiful question, and I'm so stoked to hear that. You're a dreamer. So if you just take a dream, maybe from last night or recently, or another dream that was intense, and for everyone that is listening or watching, if you go back to that dream and you can see that you are in the dream, you are in a place, you are in an environment. You are somewhere where you're interacting in the environment. Maybe there's a car or a cab driver or the neighbor, and you have a conversation. So what we know from our own experience is that in the dream we are in a world, and that world would take for real on that we're locid and then we know we're in the dream world. But we take that world for real and we have an experience, and so that is the dream of the dream experience. And in that dream experience, actually our mind is awake. You you know that there is a cap driver, and you add and you talk, et cetera. It's only not aware that you're in the dream. So, uh, it's just a world that you find yourself in at night where you have this experience and this this world is built up out of your own belief systems and thoughts and expectations and intent and focus and some mystery force that helps to create this imaginal world.

Beautiful question, and I'm so stoked to hear that. You're a dreamer. So if you just take a dream, maybe from last night or recently, or another dream that was intense, and for everyone that is listening or watching, if you go back to that dream and you can see that you are in the dream, you are in a place, you are in an environment. You are somewhere where you're interacting in the environment. Maybe there's a car or a cab driver or the neighbor, and you have a conversation. So what we know from our own experience is that in the dream we are in a world, and that world would take for real on that we're locid and then we know we're in the dream world. But we take that world for real and we have an experience, and so that is the dream of the dream experience. And in that dream experience, actually our mind is awake. You you know that there is a cap driver, and you add and you talk, et cetera. It's only not aware that you're in the dream. So, uh, it's just a world that you find yourself in at night where you have this experience and this this world is built up out of your own belief systems and thoughts and expectations and intent and focus and some mystery force that helps to create this imaginal world.

Okay.

Okay.

And so that is that is a dream, and that's the dream world. And uh, this world functions somewhat in the same way, but that is a dream world. And then you can have all kinds of different dreams where you see, you have an experience of what might happen in the future like you mentioned, or you you have more your personal unconscious that manifests, so you're all all kinds of ways that you can think about the dream and what happens there. But the dream is the world you find yourself in that it's built slop out of your personal and collective on conscious or so manifestation of your soul that creates a world.

And so that is that is a dream, and that's the dream world. And uh, this world functions somewhat in the same way, but that is a dream world. And then you can have all kinds of different dreams where you see, you have an experience of what might happen in the future like you mentioned, or you you have more your personal unconscious that manifests, so you're all all kinds of ways that you can think about the dream and what happens there. But the dream is the world you find yourself in that it's built slop out of your personal and collective on conscious or so manifestation of your soul that creates a world.

Okay. So it is it's almost like it's just another part of you. Like you said, your mind is still there. Like wherever this dream world is, your mind is too. So even if you're sleeping, it's just a different what's the word I'm looking for just a different part of Is it a different part of your mind or is it just like a do you see what I'm trying to grapple with you or what I'm grappling with Like I see it as as a part of you. But at the same time, I'm like, but how am I seeing things that are going to happen in the future, Like my brain can see that?

Okay. So it is it's almost like it's just another part of you. Like you said, your mind is still there. Like wherever this dream world is, your mind is too. So even if you're sleeping, it's just a different what's the word I'm looking for just a different part of Is it a different part of your mind or is it just like a do you see what I'm trying to grapple with you or what I'm grappling with Like I see it as as a part of you. But at the same time, I'm like, but how am I seeing things that are going to happen in the future, Like my brain can see that?

Well, that that backs the question, and I think it indicates a couple of things from your own experience.

Well, that that backs the question, and I think it indicates a couple of things from your own experience.

Okay.

Okay.

One is that there's something in you, whether it's you or some or not you, there's something in you that knows about the future. And uh, this phenomenon is active in your dream and you cannot build a relationship with this mystery, mysterious force that knows what is about to happen. And this mysterious force knows actually even more things, that knows a lot about you, what goes well, what doesn't go well, what your wounds are, how you can live a more healthy life, how you can bring your gifts into the world. And I love that you, out of your own experience, know, hey, there's something in me that knows these things. And so then you can build a relationship with it for for more. So that is that is one part of it. The other way is I think that uh uh also to struggle with even if it is you, it is you on top of it in a world. So it's your own mind that creates a world in which you find yourself. And in that world you if you if you follow your dreams, you encounter either this force that predicts accurately the future, or you can encounter other figures that are really intelligent and can tell you things about yourself that you didn't know, or if you advise or give you in a direction. So there are states of consciousness or figures in your dream that seem not to be I they have they seem to have information that is not Yeah, the little self or the eye.

One is that there's something in you, whether it's you or some or not you, there's something in you that knows about the future. And uh, this phenomenon is active in your dream and you cannot build a relationship with this mystery, mysterious force that knows what is about to happen. And this mysterious force knows actually even more things, that knows a lot about you, what goes well, what doesn't go well, what your wounds are, how you can live a more healthy life, how you can bring your gifts into the world. And I love that you, out of your own experience, know, hey, there's something in me that knows these things. And so then you can build a relationship with it for for more. So that is that is one part of it. The other way is I think that uh uh also to struggle with even if it is you, it is you on top of it in a world. So it's your own mind that creates a world in which you find yourself. And in that world you if you if you follow your dreams, you encounter either this force that predicts accurately the future, or you can encounter other figures that are really intelligent and can tell you things about yourself that you didn't know, or if you advise or give you in a direction. So there are states of consciousness or figures in your dream that seem not to be I they have they seem to have information that is not Yeah, the little self or the eye.

Right I'm processing, so like whenever I'm dreaming, okay, because you said you can learn to work with it. I have had a big fear of this, Like when I go to sleep, I'm like like, I don't you know, Or if I wake up after an intense dream, I'm like, oh, I hope that's not real. And it kind of can produce a lot of fear in me. And so in some ways it's almost like I don't want to know if that makes sense, And so you're saying use it, work with it, and in your book, that's actually what your entire book is about, is how to use our dreams as a spiritual practice. So what about the people who are listening that might be like me, that are like, yeah, but I'm scared of that or that, you know, whatever that is. What do I do with that?

Right I'm processing, so like whenever I'm dreaming, okay, because you said you can learn to work with it. I have had a big fear of this, Like when I go to sleep, I'm like like, I don't you know, Or if I wake up after an intense dream, I'm like, oh, I hope that's not real. And it kind of can produce a lot of fear in me. And so in some ways it's almost like I don't want to know if that makes sense, And so you're saying use it, work with it, and in your book, that's actually what your entire book is about, is how to use our dreams as a spiritual practice. So what about the people who are listening that might be like me, that are like, yeah, but I'm scared of that or that, you know, whatever that is. What do I do with that?

Well, explore it and you can start having a conversation with it. Just say, gosh, dream or mystery, I know you're there, and I've seen that you accurately are able to predict what happens, which is really remarkable. And I'm also a little bit afraid for you or what you're going to show. So let's let's tame it down a little bit and let's start small and maybe a dream or mystery you can help me and show me one thing I can do to love myself more deeply, and then see what it does. And it is interested in helping and educating, so it will show you something you can do to love yourself more deeply, and then you build a more trusting relationship with this force, and so you have a better relationship and then you don't have to be afraid for it. But of course, sometimes life will will show things that we don't really like to see. It could be an accident or a person dying, or something that we don't really like, but it will happen anyway, whether the dream shows it to us or not. So if the dream shows it to us, we can find ways to prepare for it or learn to learn to engage with it in a way that is helpful for us.

Well, explore it and you can start having a conversation with it. Just say, gosh, dream or mystery, I know you're there, and I've seen that you accurately are able to predict what happens, which is really remarkable. And I'm also a little bit afraid for you or what you're going to show. So let's let's tame it down a little bit and let's start small and maybe a dream or mystery you can help me and show me one thing I can do to love myself more deeply, and then see what it does. And it is interested in helping and educating, so it will show you something you can do to love yourself more deeply, and then you build a more trusting relationship with this force, and so you have a better relationship and then you don't have to be afraid for it. But of course, sometimes life will will show things that we don't really like to see. It could be an accident or a person dying, or something that we don't really like, but it will happen anyway, whether the dream shows it to us or not. So if the dream shows it to us, we can find ways to prepare for it or learn to learn to engage with it in a way that is helpful for us.

Yeah, that makes total sense. And also, like sometimes the things I was seeing, you know, even if I don't like them, I think that's why I have fears, because they would be things that were painful. But in reality too, those were situations where I needed to make some different choices and the awareness allowed me to see the truth.

Yeah, that makes total sense. And also, like sometimes the things I was seeing, you know, even if I don't like them, I think that's why I have fears, because they would be things that were painful. But in reality too, those were situations where I needed to make some different choices and the awareness allowed me to see the truth.

You know.

You know.

Maybe I didn't want to accept the truth and it was painful, but like, ultimately, that's not in my highest good to be in a situation that isn't I wasn't either getting the truth or that you know, wasn't in line with who I am or things like that. So yeah, I guess it is better to lean into it. Well, let's talk through. Your book really breaks down how people can communicate with their dreams or communicate with themselves before their dreams and ask questions. And there's all these different steps that you go through, which is fascinating to me because it makes it seem so simple. And so let's break those down. First of all, what is dream incubation because there an easy summary of that, because you use that term so often in the book, and I just want to maybe if it does come up, I want people to understand what that is.

Maybe I didn't want to accept the truth and it was painful, but like, ultimately, that's not in my highest good to be in a situation that isn't I wasn't either getting the truth or that you know, wasn't in line with who I am or things like that. So yeah, I guess it is better to lean into it. Well, let's talk through. Your book really breaks down how people can communicate with their dreams or communicate with themselves before their dreams and ask questions. And there's all these different steps that you go through, which is fascinating to me because it makes it seem so simple. And so let's break those down. First of all, what is dream incubation because there an easy summary of that, because you use that term so often in the book, and I just want to maybe if it does come up, I want people to understand what that is.

Yes, So, dream incubation is a very old technique in which people ask the dream a question before they go to sleep, okay, in order for the dream to respond to their question. And this has come back in almost any spiritual and religious tradition around the world. The thoughts are somewhat different of whether there is a god or a divine or a spirit guide that answers in the dream or the ancestors. But somehow every culture spiritual tradition has figured out that there is a mystery force in the dream, like you know, and that it knows things about us and that we can proactively engage with it. So some dreams by nature bring us something helpful. However, we don't have to wait for the dream to come to us. We can ask a question for anything that's relevant to our live path.

Yes, So, dream incubation is a very old technique in which people ask the dream a question before they go to sleep, okay, in order for the dream to respond to their question. And this has come back in almost any spiritual and religious tradition around the world. The thoughts are somewhat different of whether there is a god or a divine or a spirit guide that answers in the dream or the ancestors. But somehow every culture spiritual tradition has figured out that there is a mystery force in the dream, like you know, and that it knows things about us and that we can proactively engage with it. So some dreams by nature bring us something helpful. However, we don't have to wait for the dream to come to us. We can ask a question for anything that's relevant to our live path.

So if we can ask any questions, how would we know what questions to ask?

So if we can ask any questions, how would we know what questions to ask?

Yes, So any question that is a question that's in your heart or on your mind that's relevant to your life path that you can ask And so you could do now for example and the people that listen, just a really simple practice, and that is take a couple of breaths and ask yourself what would I like to ask? And then see what comes up. And I don't know if you have anything that comes up and that you want to share and if you want, great, If you not, it's also fun.

Yes, So any question that is a question that's in your heart or on your mind that's relevant to your life path that you can ask And so you could do now for example and the people that listen, just a really simple practice, and that is take a couple of breaths and ask yourself what would I like to ask? And then see what comes up. And I don't know if you have anything that comes up and that you want to share and if you want, great, If you not, it's also fun.

I mean I have eight hundred questions.

I mean I have eight hundred questions.

Take the first one.

Take the first one.

Okay. Career wise, I've sort of been like, what's the next thing? Like what direction do I need to go in? Because some things have shifted and I feel like I'm being called to grow something but I'm not clear on exactly what that is. But I don't even know how to word the question. Does that make sense?

Okay. Career wise, I've sort of been like, what's the next thing? Like what direction do I need to go in? Because some things have shifted and I feel like I'm being called to grow something but I'm not clear on exactly what that is. But I don't even know how to word the question. Does that make sense?

No? But this is great? That is step one. You identify, Hey, there is something in me that feels that there is a call to do something else or something new. Okay, And in step two you can formulate the right question. And that is sometimes a little puzzle, but you could sometimes it's clear, like you can ask, is what direction would be soul? What direction do you want to grow into? Okay, that that could be could also be that that is a little bit too broad, right, that you have to narrow it down and ask questions, what could I focus upon right now that would be in the benefit of the growth of my soul. Then you get one thing and you just can focus on that one thing that will be maybe a stepping stone that gives you insight in the into what is next, because maybe it shows you, maybe it shows you something in general where you need to go, but your own soul wants you to figure it out a little bit on your own. So what is the next step that I need to focus upon? And then you will see what that is?

No? But this is great? That is step one. You identify, Hey, there is something in me that feels that there is a call to do something else or something new. Okay, And in step two you can formulate the right question. And that is sometimes a little puzzle, but you could sometimes it's clear, like you can ask, is what direction would be soul? What direction do you want to grow into? Okay, that that could be could also be that that is a little bit too broad, right, that you have to narrow it down and ask questions, what could I focus upon right now that would be in the benefit of the growth of my soul. Then you get one thing and you just can focus on that one thing that will be maybe a stepping stone that gives you insight in the into what is next, because maybe it shows you, maybe it shows you something in general where you need to go, but your own soul wants you to figure it out a little bit on your own. So what is the next step that I need to focus upon? And then you will see what that is?

Okay?

Okay?

Does that make sense?

Does that make sense?

It does so because in the book you mentioned like the way that you ask the question is really important because especially if we ask a question that has two questions within one sentence, it can really get confused in our dreams or maybe you don't get the clarity that you're looking for, and so is that. So maybe it's like one of those things that you can try a couple different times. Like if I had that question, then I dream something and I'm like, what this doesn't make sense? Could I just rephrase the question the next night?

It does so because in the book you mentioned like the way that you ask the question is really important because especially if we ask a question that has two questions within one sentence, it can really get confused in our dreams or maybe you don't get the clarity that you're looking for, and so is that. So maybe it's like one of those things that you can try a couple different times. Like if I had that question, then I dream something and I'm like, what this doesn't make sense? Could I just rephrase the question the next night?

You can always rephrase it. I always house people puzzle a little bit, and you can say to the mystery, thank you for entering makes no sense.

You can always rephrase it. I always house people puzzle a little bit, and you can say to the mystery, thank you for entering makes no sense.

I'm gonna retry this, right.

I'm gonna retry this, right.

It is always willing to help. But let's say that you would ask the question, what could I focus upon right now that would be helpful for the next step in my career? Okay, that is one question. That is just one question. If you would say what could I do for my career? And how do I find a great law or how do I be a better partner? Whatever, then things get quickly conformed.

It is always willing to help. But let's say that you would ask the question, what could I focus upon right now that would be helpful for the next step in my career? Okay, that is one question. That is just one question. If you would say what could I do for my career? And how do I find a great law or how do I be a better partner? Whatever, then things get quickly conformed.

Yeah, your dreams are like what do you want to know? This is a lot, this is your whole life.

Yeah, your dreams are like what do you want to know? This is a lot, this is your whole life.

Here, Yeah, throw everything at you. And then you don't also not know which part of the dream refers to the partner and to write and to money.

Here, Yeah, throw everything at you. And then you don't also not know which part of the dream refers to the partner and to write and to money.

And okay, okay, so then let's talk about like what is the importance? Then you have a dream like I actually tried this two nights ago and had the weirdest dream. I have no idea what it meant, and I already forgot it. So, like I guess you think in the book you really mentioned like the importance of the second you wake up you have to write it down. Is that one of the steps correct?

And okay, okay, so then let's talk about like what is the importance? Then you have a dream like I actually tried this two nights ago and had the weirdest dream. I have no idea what it meant, and I already forgot it. So, like I guess you think in the book you really mentioned like the importance of the second you wake up you have to write it down. Is that one of the steps correct?

Yeah, that's correct. And at night your short term memory goes offline. Okay, that's why you don't remember your dreams when it comes back when you wake up. So the best thing to do is when you wake up in the morning, repeat to dream three times so that you that it gets stored back in your memory, and then write it down at the minimum a couple of keywords, but preferably the whole dream, because dreams evaporate and that there's nothing to do with intelligence or willpower. It's just that the brain doesn't store it correctly well in the morning, So write it down and and and it is not. Sometimes it's very clear the dream response, but sometimes it's also it gets information that you hadn't thought about yet, So it comes from an angle that you hadn't pondered about, and so it's it's new information, and it's very easy to dismiss it and if you just write it down and come back an hour later, or you read the dream to a friend and you say gosh, and then you read it out loud. Very often it's at once oh oh, now it makes sense.

Yeah, that's correct. And at night your short term memory goes offline. Okay, that's why you don't remember your dreams when it comes back when you wake up. So the best thing to do is when you wake up in the morning, repeat to dream three times so that you that it gets stored back in your memory, and then write it down at the minimum a couple of keywords, but preferably the whole dream, because dreams evaporate and that there's nothing to do with intelligence or willpower. It's just that the brain doesn't store it correctly well in the morning, So write it down and and and it is not. Sometimes it's very clear the dream response, but sometimes it's also it gets information that you hadn't thought about yet, So it comes from an angle that you hadn't pondered about, and so it's it's new information, and it's very easy to dismiss it and if you just write it down and come back an hour later, or you read the dream to a friend and you say gosh, and then you read it out loud. Very often it's at once oh oh, now it makes sense.

Yeah, because I remember that. I do remember asking a question. I wish I can't even remember the question now, but I asked a question, and then I had the most random dream and I was I think the reason I didn't write it down is because I was thinking this was really off. But maybe it was actually telling me something that I just couldn't quite piece together.

Yeah, because I remember that. I do remember asking a question. I wish I can't even remember the question now, but I asked a question, and then I had the most random dream and I was I think the reason I didn't write it down is because I was thinking this was really off. But maybe it was actually telling me something that I just couldn't quite piece together.

That is working, uh, my working hypothesis. I'm radical. I think that if you ask this mystery source within that knows about the future and that knows about you, a question that it will answer and and and so I also consider it more intelligent than than humans. Right, so it answers in usually a dream form, and dreams are metaphorical by nature their environments, and not just a little letter to us. So it takes a little bit of puzzling to figure it out. And we can talk about how you can puzzle with your dream. But I encourage people write it down, just treat it as if you were meeting this wise compassionate counselor that gives you an answer. It might be a little bit riddled for you when you wake up, and your consciousness might think that is silly or that's weird, there's nothing to do with me, especially then write it down because it might be coming from an angle that you didn't think about and give you the answer that you were looking for.

That is working, uh, my working hypothesis. I'm radical. I think that if you ask this mystery source within that knows about the future and that knows about you, a question that it will answer and and and so I also consider it more intelligent than than humans. Right, so it answers in usually a dream form, and dreams are metaphorical by nature their environments, and not just a little letter to us. So it takes a little bit of puzzling to figure it out. And we can talk about how you can puzzle with your dream. But I encourage people write it down, just treat it as if you were meeting this wise compassionate counselor that gives you an answer. It might be a little bit riddled for you when you wake up, and your consciousness might think that is silly or that's weird, there's nothing to do with me, especially then write it down because it might be coming from an angle that you didn't think about and give you the answer that you were looking for.

Okay, this is feeling really so. I did a psilocybin journey with Shaman. I guess this is about a year ago now, and so much of this is feeling really familiar to me because during that journey I had all of these visions, but I couldn't really make sense of a lot of them, and I wanted to write them down. At the end of he s no, they'll they'll reveal themselves when it's ready, and like it has been so true, certain things will ping back to me and they'll make complete sense. Or like, it's just so interesting what came up not really being the thing that I thought I needed to work through at the time, you know, like it's always just so interesting that I think that our minds are subconscious, unconscious all of these different things are just so much more powerful than we actually even ever know, and so we're just like walking around the world trying to think our way through things, and it's like, no, it's all there to be revealed if we just quiet our minds enough to see it or listen to it.

Okay, this is feeling really so. I did a psilocybin journey with Shaman. I guess this is about a year ago now, and so much of this is feeling really familiar to me because during that journey I had all of these visions, but I couldn't really make sense of a lot of them, and I wanted to write them down. At the end of he s no, they'll they'll reveal themselves when it's ready, and like it has been so true, certain things will ping back to me and they'll make complete sense. Or like, it's just so interesting what came up not really being the thing that I thought I needed to work through at the time, you know, like it's always just so interesting that I think that our minds are subconscious, unconscious all of these different things are just so much more powerful than we actually even ever know, and so we're just like walking around the world trying to think our way through things, and it's like, no, it's all there to be revealed if we just quiet our minds enough to see it or listen to it.

I totally agree, and I think that a psilocybin or a yauasca journey actually a journey into a similar realm as to dream, and it's built up simi literally as dream. So dreams are maybe little drops of mushroom journeys. Yes, ayahuasca journeys. Yeah, you can access the same states of intelligence and consciousness, just in a much smaller dose. But the way you can engage in the in the mushroom journey with the environment and ask it questions and how your thoughts co create the environment and how there are sometimes figures that tell you things you didn't know. Same same for the dream and at the end of the day, same same for this reality. But this reality is super dense and the dream and the ayahuasca world or the mushroom world are much more fluid because it's form, it's it's it's a it's a different form of imagination or the soul.

I totally agree, and I think that a psilocybin or a yauasca journey actually a journey into a similar realm as to dream, and it's built up simi literally as dream. So dreams are maybe little drops of mushroom journeys. Yes, ayahuasca journeys. Yeah, you can access the same states of intelligence and consciousness, just in a much smaller dose. But the way you can engage in the in the mushroom journey with the environment and ask it questions and how your thoughts co create the environment and how there are sometimes figures that tell you things you didn't know. Same same for the dream and at the end of the day, same same for this reality. But this reality is super dense and the dream and the ayahuasca world or the mushroom world are much more fluid because it's form, it's it's it's a it's a different form of imagination or the soul.

Or right, it's just more amplified. Yeah, so you mentioned the puzzle after you know, basically you write your dream down. So I mean, are people oftentimes misinterpreting dreams or like, you know, you can go find books and it's like, oh, I think I heard you on a podcast say like a snake can mean many different things and a dream. So if you go read these books that are like dream interpretations, maybe that's not what your mind was actually meaning. So how do we know if we're accurately interpreting these dreams?

Or right, it's just more amplified. Yeah, so you mentioned the puzzle after you know, basically you write your dream down. So I mean, are people oftentimes misinterpreting dreams or like, you know, you can go find books and it's like, oh, I think I heard you on a podcast say like a snake can mean many different things and a dream. So if you go read these books that are like dream interpretations, maybe that's not what your mind was actually meaning. So how do we know if we're accurately interpreting these dreams?

Yeah, that's that's the million dollar.

Yeah, that's that's the million dollar.

Question, right. I was hoping you could answer.

Question, right. I was hoping you could answer.

Some things that seem it's girl. You had this notion, he said, if you have the sense that it clicks, so that your interpretation that it clicks is very often an indication that's not on hundred percent the case because we all know people who have a vision or an idea that really clicks for them and we can see that it is not really uh accurate, so usually it clicks. Method. The other is, the more you understand about how these worlds get created, the easier it becomes to to to to work with them. And for example, the dream world is a combination between your personal unconscious beliefs and thoughts and experiences and something else that mystery force that you encountered that creates it. And so let's say, Uh, I would have a dream in which my neighbor gets I don't know, gets a new car and I'm jealous because I wanted to have that car. And then my previous friend John comes by, and that's the dream, and uh and and then you would maybe ask what do you associate to John? And would say, oh, John is a prievious friend who is very jealous or envious. And then uh, you could say, your your belief systems and experiences take on form and shape of people and objects that we know where we have a certain association to. So John is jealous or envious, maybe so and so is Maybe my former boss is critical, so then he comes to the dream as criticalness. But that's very personal because your former boss, Uh, maybe you know, maybe you would know John too, and we would say, oh, no, John, I know John very well. John is generous, So you have a different experience of John. So in your dream, John would be the presentation of generosity, where in my dream he would be envy. And so we could you cannot say one thing or one character means the same thing to everyone. There's a personal layer. You get to that personal layer by asking the question, what do I associate to this figure?

Some things that seem it's girl. You had this notion, he said, if you have the sense that it clicks, so that your interpretation that it clicks is very often an indication that's not on hundred percent the case because we all know people who have a vision or an idea that really clicks for them and we can see that it is not really uh accurate, so usually it clicks. Method. The other is, the more you understand about how these worlds get created, the easier it becomes to to to to work with them. And for example, the dream world is a combination between your personal unconscious beliefs and thoughts and experiences and something else that mystery force that you encountered that creates it. And so let's say, Uh, I would have a dream in which my neighbor gets I don't know, gets a new car and I'm jealous because I wanted to have that car. And then my previous friend John comes by, and that's the dream, and uh and and then you would maybe ask what do you associate to John? And would say, oh, John is a prievious friend who is very jealous or envious. And then uh, you could say, your your belief systems and experiences take on form and shape of people and objects that we know where we have a certain association to. So John is jealous or envious, maybe so and so is Maybe my former boss is critical, so then he comes to the dream as criticalness. But that's very personal because your former boss, Uh, maybe you know, maybe you would know John too, and we would say, oh, no, John, I know John very well. John is generous, So you have a different experience of John. So in your dream, John would be the presentation of generosity, where in my dream he would be envy. And so we could you cannot say one thing or one character means the same thing to everyone. There's a personal layer. You get to that personal layer by asking the question, what do I associate to this figure?

Okay?

Okay?

So that is one little technique and that gives some understanding of this dream work. Another is the question you can ask is what is the function of this so a car, what is the function of the car? Or the car move me through life? Okay, so my way of moving through life. And then I can look at the dream what my way of moving through life is doing. Maybe I can get the breaks to work or the way I move through life, and I seem not to be able to stop or to get to the steering will, and I feel out of control. So those two things can help people work with their dream without the need to go to the dream dictionary. Because the tiger or the snake means in one culture dish and on the other culture death, and it could mean something, but it also could not mean.

So that is one little technique and that gives some understanding of this dream work. Another is the question you can ask is what is the function of this so a car, what is the function of the car? Or the car move me through life? Okay, so my way of moving through life. And then I can look at the dream what my way of moving through life is doing. Maybe I can get the breaks to work or the way I move through life, and I seem not to be able to stop or to get to the steering will, and I feel out of control. So those two things can help people work with their dream without the need to go to the dream dictionary. Because the tiger or the snake means in one culture dish and on the other culture death, and it could mean something, but it also could not mean.

That, right, But how do we know? So I actually when you said the thing about I can't remember how you worded it, but it reminds me of the gut, like my gut always knows, like when I've had dreams in the past and they were so vivid that I wished I could forget them, but I couldn't, and then I would something would happen, and I'm like, oh, this is what this meant. And I knew so clearly like it wasn't There was no question in my mind. My body was very calm, even if it was negative things, And so to me, that was when I knew my dream was right.

That, right, But how do we know? So I actually when you said the thing about I can't remember how you worded it, but it reminds me of the gut, like my gut always knows, like when I've had dreams in the past and they were so vivid that I wished I could forget them, but I couldn't, and then I would something would happen, and I'm like, oh, this is what this meant. And I knew so clearly like it wasn't There was no question in my mind. My body was very calm, even if it was negative things, And so to me, that was when I knew my dream was right.

Yeah. I love that notion when you said, also, my body was calm. I think that it is very often an indication that the hero on the right track.

Yeah. I love that notion when you said, also, my body was calm. I think that it is very often an indication that the hero on the right track.

Yeah, it's if it's something you.

Yeah, it's if it's something you.

Don't plung or this person is going to die, but if you feel very calm, it's probably right.

Don't plung or this person is going to die, but if you feel very calm, it's probably right.

The other thing I love that you mentioned in the book, though, is like a dream isn't a genie because I think a lot of times we associate Okay, well, if I can talk to my dreams, I can get answers in my dreams, I'm just going to ask for all the things. Like a lot of times people associate prayer with that too, write like dear God, give me a million dollars, like you know, or whatever it is. So, what is it if a dream isn't a genie? What would you even call a dream, like, why do we need this for our spiritual practice?

The other thing I love that you mentioned in the book, though, is like a dream isn't a genie because I think a lot of times we associate Okay, well, if I can talk to my dreams, I can get answers in my dreams, I'm just going to ask for all the things. Like a lot of times people associate prayer with that too, write like dear God, give me a million dollars, like you know, or whatever it is. So, what is it if a dream isn't a genie? What would you even call a dream, like, why do we need this for our spiritual practice?

Because it really works for spiritual practice, and it doesn't really work well for the million dollars in general unless it belongs to your spiritual practice.

Because it really works for spiritual practice, and it doesn't really work well for the million dollars in general unless it belongs to your spiritual practice.

Okay.

Okay.

And so they've done some research at Harvard University on a dream incubation, and what they notice is that the students who would ask questions that were emotionally irrelevant to them or of medical nature would get a high percentage of dreams that would make sense to their question. People that would ask questions that were too conceptual not personally irrelevant would not get an answer. So it looks like this mysterious force that knows is interested in helping and educating in you becoming you. Are you working through your karma or helping you with your emotional life soul's purpose? Then you get answers. But if you would ask what did my neighbor have for dinner? How do I get the ferrari or the million dollars? It just doesn't have to do with the flourishing of you as an individual, and that is what it wants to support. If you would ask the question, how can I, with my work touch more people that become more fulfilled and that I can earn a living with that. Oh, there's the dream at once is really interested because now it's going to help you bring your gift in an optimal way into the world. Yeah, and that you get bait for it is also a regular thing.

And so they've done some research at Harvard University on a dream incubation, and what they notice is that the students who would ask questions that were emotionally irrelevant to them or of medical nature would get a high percentage of dreams that would make sense to their question. People that would ask questions that were too conceptual not personally irrelevant would not get an answer. So it looks like this mysterious force that knows is interested in helping and educating in you becoming you. Are you working through your karma or helping you with your emotional life soul's purpose? Then you get answers. But if you would ask what did my neighbor have for dinner? How do I get the ferrari or the million dollars? It just doesn't have to do with the flourishing of you as an individual, and that is what it wants to support. If you would ask the question, how can I, with my work touch more people that become more fulfilled and that I can earn a living with that. Oh, there's the dream at once is really interested because now it's going to help you bring your gift in an optimal way into the world. Yeah, and that you get bait for it is also a regular thing.

Okay. I love that that piece of just like it has to be in line with your soul's purpose and your spiritual journey, because I think a lot of times in our culture it gets lost that we're not all on the same journey striving for the same thing. Like you know, a lot of times the picture is painted of what success should look like like. Success looks like a big house, a ferrari, millions of dollars, all of those things. And it could but you know, your life, in your spiritual path and your journey could call for some something totally different. And so what I hear you saying is this dreaming and really tapping into your dreams and working with your dreams is another form of really finding your own uniqueness and going on your own journey and not having to like map out your life based on what everyone else is doing or what someone else tells you, which look.

Okay. I love that that piece of just like it has to be in line with your soul's purpose and your spiritual journey, because I think a lot of times in our culture it gets lost that we're not all on the same journey striving for the same thing. Like you know, a lot of times the picture is painted of what success should look like like. Success looks like a big house, a ferrari, millions of dollars, all of those things. And it could but you know, your life, in your spiritual path and your journey could call for some something totally different. And so what I hear you saying is this dreaming and really tapping into your dreams and working with your dreams is another form of really finding your own uniqueness and going on your own journey and not having to like map out your life based on what everyone else is doing or what someone else tells you, which look.

Like beautifully said. And indeed it's the it's the core of this, this notion. And also that you have this this this wise compassionate counselor insight that knows what that can help you with your journey. So it gives tailor made answers to your situation in ways that no other system really can do because it knows how you have this wound. And in order for you to work with this wound, you want to develop this or you need this experience. And that is so unique. And there's only the world is as only uniqueness. There's there's there's not even two flakes of snow who are the same. There's no two humans who have the same path. Uh And and so there is not really one guideline or one book that can help a person.

Like beautifully said. And indeed it's the it's the core of this, this notion. And also that you have this this this wise compassionate counselor insight that knows what that can help you with your journey. So it gives tailor made answers to your situation in ways that no other system really can do because it knows how you have this wound. And in order for you to work with this wound, you want to develop this or you need this experience. And that is so unique. And there's only the world is as only uniqueness. There's there's there's not even two flakes of snow who are the same. There's no two humans who have the same path. Uh And and so there is not really one guideline or one book that can help a person.

If you do this, then you will be happy, right.

If you do this, then you will be happy, right.

And it's interesting because that is how we live a lot of our lives. I mean, I know that I have like if you go through a bad breakup, well I want the self help books that are going to help me get to the other side. But every relationship is different, every person is different, and there is no one size fits all healing or journey. I love that you mentioned like the only like the wound part, like this is the one place that knows all of your wounds, Like it is true more than even your therapist would it. It can break down every piece of you that maybe you're not even conscious of and work with that.

And it's interesting because that is how we live a lot of our lives. I mean, I know that I have like if you go through a bad breakup, well I want the self help books that are going to help me get to the other side. But every relationship is different, every person is different, and there is no one size fits all healing or journey. I love that you mentioned like the only like the wound part, like this is the one place that knows all of your wounds, Like it is true more than even your therapist would it. It can break down every piece of you that maybe you're not even conscious of and work with that.

Yeah. Yeah, and it can show you the next step. That's just like when you asked with your career, maybe what's the next step? Because this step will lead you to that and then you're there and then immediately saying you need to be there, you know, it's like, oh, maybe you first need to go to Atlanta before you actually end up in Seattle, but there was something there, So if I tell you need to go to Seattle, you might miss Atlanta. Right, So it will tell you if you ask the next step, you say, oh, oh, just that is it? Yeah, and with wounds the same it were stuck in. I still this grudge about my ex. How can I let go? What's one thing I can do to let go? And then your dream will show a scene or an experience that you can mimic to let go of the crutch.

Yeah. Yeah, and it can show you the next step. That's just like when you asked with your career, maybe what's the next step? Because this step will lead you to that and then you're there and then immediately saying you need to be there, you know, it's like, oh, maybe you first need to go to Atlanta before you actually end up in Seattle, but there was something there, So if I tell you need to go to Seattle, you might miss Atlanta. Right, So it will tell you if you ask the next step, you say, oh, oh, just that is it? Yeah, and with wounds the same it were stuck in. I still this grudge about my ex. How can I let go? What's one thing I can do to let go? And then your dream will show a scene or an experience that you can mimic to let go of the crutch.

Right, yeah, this is fascinating to me. So I love When I was talking to your book publisher, she said, One of the main topics that she loved is how dreams can help with love, health, purpose, and personal development. And so I feel like a lot of the listeners like because when I read that, I was like, Okay, how do I mean like help me in love? Like what you know? And so is it just it's a journey, right? I'm assuming this isn't like I'm going to go to sleep tonight and figure my whole entire life out. I wish that would be amazing. But is there a specific place that you would suggest to listeners to start, because I think even coming out of this this time, this pandemic, all of this stuff, everyone is asking questions like do I like this job that I'm in. We've really kind of had this moment of evaluating our lives and what we're putting our energy into. So it can be a little overwhelming to be going on any sort of spiritual journey right now. So do you have a suggestion of just how to decipher where to start in your practice with dreams?

Right, yeah, this is fascinating to me. So I love When I was talking to your book publisher, she said, One of the main topics that she loved is how dreams can help with love, health, purpose, and personal development. And so I feel like a lot of the listeners like because when I read that, I was like, Okay, how do I mean like help me in love? Like what you know? And so is it just it's a journey, right? I'm assuming this isn't like I'm going to go to sleep tonight and figure my whole entire life out. I wish that would be amazing. But is there a specific place that you would suggest to listeners to start, because I think even coming out of this this time, this pandemic, all of this stuff, everyone is asking questions like do I like this job that I'm in. We've really kind of had this moment of evaluating our lives and what we're putting our energy into. So it can be a little overwhelming to be going on any sort of spiritual journey right now. So do you have a suggestion of just how to decipher where to start in your practice with dreams?

Well, of course, it's it's individual for everyone. If you have a burning question, take that question, and sometimes it's a huge question that will be a process and to figure it out because let's say you want to have a great relationship, most likely that's going to take a lot of steps before you're there.

Well, of course, it's it's individual for everyone. If you have a burning question, take that question, and sometimes it's a huge question that will be a process and to figure it out because let's say you want to have a great relationship, most likely that's going to take a lot of steps before you're there.

Yeah, and.

Yeah, and.

Because there's so many components in it. But if people are listening and they want to ask a question tonight, things that have worked really well that I didn't studies with a question as what is one type of food that would be really healthy for me to eat? And that that triggers an exceptionally high positive response with clear answers. Another one that is that's always great is we talked about before, what is one thing I can do to love myself more deeply? And of course if I love myself more deeply, I can be open hearted and connect our others more deeply, because it's very hard to give what you don't have. And so those are two questions that generally work really well that people can practice tonight in order for them if they want to do that, make sure you write it down because that seems to be important. Create a little ritual, so talk to the dream, make a drawing, write a letter, light a candle, dance whatever comes up for you. But just that you communicate to the mystery. I'd love to have some help I was listening to this guy talking to Kelly today and I'm not sure dream if you can do this, but would that be cool? Yes, please let me know if you can answer. And then you just write down the question and you'd be just honest in that relationship. You tell it and then the next morning you have to write it down. But otherwise gone, and that's not good. Uh, communications with the with the mystery and uh and and you and probably you will have a tool, but you can apply the rest for your life. How often how little you want for challenges and and and and quests that you're on?

Because there's so many components in it. But if people are listening and they want to ask a question tonight, things that have worked really well that I didn't studies with a question as what is one type of food that would be really healthy for me to eat? And that that triggers an exceptionally high positive response with clear answers. Another one that is that's always great is we talked about before, what is one thing I can do to love myself more deeply? And of course if I love myself more deeply, I can be open hearted and connect our others more deeply, because it's very hard to give what you don't have. And so those are two questions that generally work really well that people can practice tonight in order for them if they want to do that, make sure you write it down because that seems to be important. Create a little ritual, so talk to the dream, make a drawing, write a letter, light a candle, dance whatever comes up for you. But just that you communicate to the mystery. I'd love to have some help I was listening to this guy talking to Kelly today and I'm not sure dream if you can do this, but would that be cool? Yes, please let me know if you can answer. And then you just write down the question and you'd be just honest in that relationship. You tell it and then the next morning you have to write it down. But otherwise gone, and that's not good. Uh, communications with the with the mystery and uh and and you and probably you will have a tool, but you can apply the rest for your life. How often how little you want for challenges and and and and quests that you're on?

Okay, so what kind of food could I help? What was it again?

Okay, so what kind of food could I help? What was it again?

What is one type that's that is usually where it is? Make it very simple? What is one type of food that would be very healthy for me to eat? What you would enjoy eating? And like my mother did do this, and she was dreaming that she had all that she was, Uh, there were all kinds of glasses with water on the table, and she took a couple of chips and then she she forgot about it. She was like, oh, yeah, I very often start drinking water during day. I forget about it. But here are even eight glasses of water. So let me make sure that I drink eight glasses of water.

What is one type that's that is usually where it is? Make it very simple? What is one type of food that would be very healthy for me to eat? What you would enjoy eating? And like my mother did do this, and she was dreaming that she had all that she was, Uh, there were all kinds of glasses with water on the table, and she took a couple of chips and then she she forgot about it. She was like, oh, yeah, I very often start drinking water during day. I forget about it. But here are even eight glasses of water. So let me make sure that I drink eight glasses of water.

So she needed more water.

So she needed more water.

She needed more water.

She needed more water.

I just wasn't. This is interesting because I remember I was telling you before this podcast, I've had COVID and I've just I have not really bounced back, and so I'm going to try this one tonight.

I just wasn't. This is interesting because I remember I was telling you before this podcast, I've had COVID and I've just I have not really bounced back, and so I'm going to try this one tonight.

Yeah, or even with what is one thing I can do to recover or heal from COVID? Okay, and then internally something will know? Yeah, the old Greek tradition of Esclapists, which was a thousand year tradition, people would go to the temple of Esclapists with medical problems because they didn't know, and somehow you will get something that will help you to heal.

Yeah, or even with what is one thing I can do to recover or heal from COVID? Okay, and then internally something will know? Yeah, the old Greek tradition of Esclapists, which was a thousand year tradition, people would go to the temple of Esclapists with medical problems because they didn't know, and somehow you will get something that will help you to heal.

Right, my body knows. I just maybe am somehow not in touch with that yet. Right, Okay, I'm going to try this tonight. I'll report back to you. The book is called Dream Guidance, Connecting to the Soul through Dream Incubation, And actually in the back of the book you give people some questions to ask if they're getting stuck on you know how. I kind of was like, oh, this is overwhelming. What do I ask? And so you break down like questions to ask in love and relationships, your life path, personal growth, health finances, spiritual explorations. So if you guys are listening and you're like I wouldn't even know where to start, get the book. It's a really good place to start. And it kind of just breaks down your journey and how you came into this work with dreams. So I highly recommend. I am fascinated with dreams, and like I said, I've been a little scared of my dreams sometimes, but I'm going to try to, you know, accept that and know that my inner knowing wants to tell me some stuff.

Right, my body knows. I just maybe am somehow not in touch with that yet. Right, Okay, I'm going to try this tonight. I'll report back to you. The book is called Dream Guidance, Connecting to the Soul through Dream Incubation, And actually in the back of the book you give people some questions to ask if they're getting stuck on you know how. I kind of was like, oh, this is overwhelming. What do I ask? And so you break down like questions to ask in love and relationships, your life path, personal growth, health finances, spiritual explorations. So if you guys are listening and you're like I wouldn't even know where to start, get the book. It's a really good place to start. And it kind of just breaks down your journey and how you came into this work with dreams. So I highly recommend. I am fascinated with dreams, and like I said, I've been a little scared of my dreams sometimes, but I'm going to try to, you know, accept that and know that my inner knowing wants to tell me some stuff.

Yeah, and that the inner knowing is really interested in helping and educating, right, and that it wants to help you live fulfilling life.

Yeah, and that the inner knowing is really interested in helping and educating, right, and that it wants to help you live fulfilling life.

Yeah, that's always true. I say. There's you know, these painful things that come up. But again it is the stuff that's like if I stay here, my higher purpose or my higher self cannot thrive. Like it's something that needs to leave my life usually, and so it is trying to help me, I think, but it's sometimes just like damn it, you know, why isn't that different? That's just life though?

Yeah, that's always true. I say. There's you know, these painful things that come up. But again it is the stuff that's like if I stay here, my higher purpose or my higher self cannot thrive. Like it's something that needs to leave my life usually, and so it is trying to help me, I think, but it's sometimes just like damn it, you know, why isn't that different? That's just life though?

Yeah, Yeah, nobody likes their own wounds, and but by ignoring the wounds, we, as you mentioned, we remain stuck in those pockets. And the psyche, just like your body will heal itself, the psyche will heal itself if we engage with it, so we don't even have to figure it out. It's just like the cut on your arm. You need to clean it. You don't have to figure out how your skin regrows in a great way. The same with internal bounds. Engage with it, clean it, and then the soul will will recreate it in a way that it doesn't hurt so much anymore.

Yeah, Yeah, nobody likes their own wounds, and but by ignoring the wounds, we, as you mentioned, we remain stuck in those pockets. And the psyche, just like your body will heal itself, the psyche will heal itself if we engage with it, so we don't even have to figure it out. It's just like the cut on your arm. You need to clean it. You don't have to figure out how your skin regrows in a great way. The same with internal bounds. Engage with it, clean it, and then the soul will will recreate it in a way that it doesn't hurt so much anymore.

Who doesn't want that exactly?

Who doesn't want that exactly?

I love that. Thank you so much, you guys, go check out this book. I'm going to put all the description I'm gonna sorry, I'm gonna put the link to this book in the description of this podcast. Is there somewhere else that people can find you if they want to follow along on your journey?

I love that. Thank you so much, you guys, go check out this book. I'm going to put all the description I'm gonna sorry, I'm gonna put the link to this book in the description of this podcast. Is there somewhere else that people can find you if they want to follow along on your journey?

Yes, they can. I often say, just type in dream guidance, then probably my name in the book will come up. You will find my website because my website is my name. It's a little difficult. Dot com M A C H I L K L E r k dot com. Maybe it's in the notes, or go to your platform j U n G platform. So a company I started based in a dream out of a dream, and there was a vocational dream that I've now been working on for years. And there we provide great programs on shadow work and synchronicity and dream work and all kinds of spiritual psychological programs for beginners and intermediate spiritual explorers in the world.

Yes, they can. I often say, just type in dream guidance, then probably my name in the book will come up. You will find my website because my website is my name. It's a little difficult. Dot com M A C H I L K L E r k dot com. Maybe it's in the notes, or go to your platform j U n G platform. So a company I started based in a dream out of a dream, and there was a vocational dream that I've now been working on for years. And there we provide great programs on shadow work and synchronicity and dream work and all kinds of spiritual psychological programs for beginners and intermediate spiritual explorers in the world.

Amazing. I will put all of this in the description of the podcast so you guys can easily find it, but go check it out and mckaale no Machiel got it. I knew I was going to get there. Thank you so much for just helping us decipher our dreams. I'm so excited to try this tonight and really dive into this kind of work.

Amazing. I will put all of this in the description of the podcast so you guys can easily find it, but go check it out and mckaale no Machiel got it. I knew I was going to get there. Thank you so much for just helping us decipher our dreams. I'm so excited to try this tonight and really dive into this kind of work.

Thank you, Kelly, it was a pleasure to be with you.

Thank you, Kelly, it was a pleasure to be with you.

Thank you guys for listening.

Thank you guys for listening.

Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.

Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson, where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.