I get a team. Welcome to another installing the you project. My favorite geek, my favorite toxicologist, pharmacologist, genetic guru, Professor Bill is back. Doctor Bill is back. How are you man?

I get a team. Welcome to another installing the you project. My favorite geek, my favorite toxicologist, pharmacologist, genetic guru, Professor Bill is back. Doctor Bill is back. How are you man?

I'm doing great, Craig, thanks for having me back on.

I'm doing great, Craig, thanks for having me back on.

Yeah. We love chatting with you. Now. I'm just going to I'm terrible at promoing. I'm the worst of promoing my own shit, and I'm equally as bad at promoting doctor Bill. So I'm going to tell you go get his book. I'm halfway through it. I'm listening to it. I said i'd be finished it. I full disclosure. I'm under the pump with my PhD, and I've been doing lots of travel and speaking, so I have not heard all of it, but it is great. It is called please to meet me, jeans, germs and the curious forces that make us who we are. And you know, listeners that I don't tell you to or I don't do a call to action unless I mean it. So I never promote anything that I have not tried or read or experienced, and I never promote anything knowingly are intentionally that I don't think is actually worth investing your time or energy or money in and I hate selling stuff, but I think it is a really good investment. So yeah, before we get underway, I really liked the book. I wish you had read it. That's my only complaint. But I love the book. It's not even a complaint. I like your voice. Why didn't you do it?

Yeah. We love chatting with you. Now. I'm just going to I'm terrible at promoing. I'm the worst of promoing my own shit, and I'm equally as bad at promoting doctor Bill. So I'm going to tell you go get his book. I'm halfway through it. I'm listening to it. I said i'd be finished it. I full disclosure. I'm under the pump with my PhD, and I've been doing lots of travel and speaking, so I have not heard all of it, but it is great. It is called please to meet me, jeans, germs and the curious forces that make us who we are. And you know, listeners that I don't tell you to or I don't do a call to action unless I mean it. So I never promote anything that I have not tried or read or experienced, and I never promote anything knowingly are intentionally that I don't think is actually worth investing your time or energy or money in and I hate selling stuff, but I think it is a really good investment. So yeah, before we get underway, I really liked the book. I wish you had read it. That's my only complaint. But I love the book. It's not even a complaint. I like your voice. Why didn't you do it?

That was outside of my control. I didn't have the option to do it. I would have gladly have read the book for the audio version. I think that would have been fun. But I will say the person they got to do it did a great job. There's a lot of scientific jargon that a lot of people mispronounce or simply don't know.

That was outside of my control. I didn't have the option to do it. I would have gladly have read the book for the audio version. I think that would have been fun. But I will say the person they got to do it did a great job. There's a lot of scientific jargon that a lot of people mispronounce or simply don't know.

So they did a good job. They did do a good job. I will say that they did a good job. I'm a little biased because I know you and I like your voice, and I want to hear your words in your voice. So but you know, it's like, do you know what I love? There's a few people that come on this show that really you know, I'm not Australia. Have you ever heard the Australian term pissing in your pocket?

So they did a good job. They did do a good job. I will say that they did a good job. I'm a little biased because I know you and I like your voice, and I want to hear your words in your voice. So but you know, it's like, do you know what I love? There's a few people that come on this show that really you know, I'm not Australia. Have you ever heard the Australian term pissing in your pocket?

I can imagine what it means.

I can imagine what it means.

Yeah, yeah, well, pissing in your pocket means kind of you know, flattering you unnecessarily or you know, without sincerity. But so I'm not pissing in your pocket when I say that, there's probably three or four people in the world who are I love that are very very high level at what they do. And you have this capacity to break down things in a way that us mere mortals can understand. And I love that you know that you can share science and research, and you know the complexity of the mind and the body and biology and you know genetics and epigenetics in a way that not only can we understand it, we can then go do something about it. And I think that's as a science communicator, that's something of a superpower. So you know, is that something that that's just your Is that just you or is that something that you consciously developed, that ability to share science? And I kind of use a friendly way.

Yeah, yeah, well, pissing in your pocket means kind of you know, flattering you unnecessarily or you know, without sincerity. But so I'm not pissing in your pocket when I say that, there's probably three or four people in the world who are I love that are very very high level at what they do. And you have this capacity to break down things in a way that us mere mortals can understand. And I love that you know that you can share science and research, and you know the complexity of the mind and the body and biology and you know genetics and epigenetics in a way that not only can we understand it, we can then go do something about it. And I think that's as a science communicator, that's something of a superpower. So you know, is that something that that's just your Is that just you or is that something that you consciously developed, that ability to share science? And I kind of use a friendly way.

Well, there's a lot of reasons why I dove into that aspect of things rather than just like staying locked away and being a lab rat and churning out paper after paper for technical audiences. I kind of, you know, that's obviously important and that's a main component of what I do. But taxpayers fund this research Craig in our country, and they're not going to understand these highly technical journals that you usually need to pay a huge amount of money just to read. So I view it as an obligation, you know, to use their tax dollars which fund my research in public biomedicine. I view it as part of my responsibility to tell the average taxpayer what they're paying for, what they're getting for their money, and hopefully they appreciate the hard work that people in my lab that are that are trying to achieve, you know, trying to make some headway and infectious disease and better understand how genes are regulated and activated under different circumstances, and a lot of a lot of science comes out that is just truly fascinating and by the same token, really important because it's guiding political policy more and more. And I took it as a you know, like like another extension of the duties of my position as a as a professor at a public university. It's partly my job to communicate what is going on to people who vote and have a say in these political policies. I want them to understand the issues so that they have a better handle on you know how to proceed.

Well, there's a lot of reasons why I dove into that aspect of things rather than just like staying locked away and being a lab rat and churning out paper after paper for technical audiences. I kind of, you know, that's obviously important and that's a main component of what I do. But taxpayers fund this research Craig in our country, and they're not going to understand these highly technical journals that you usually need to pay a huge amount of money just to read. So I view it as an obligation, you know, to use their tax dollars which fund my research in public biomedicine. I view it as part of my responsibility to tell the average taxpayer what they're paying for, what they're getting for their money, and hopefully they appreciate the hard work that people in my lab that are that are trying to achieve, you know, trying to make some headway and infectious disease and better understand how genes are regulated and activated under different circumstances, and a lot of a lot of science comes out that is just truly fascinating and by the same token, really important because it's guiding political policy more and more. And I took it as a you know, like like another extension of the duties of my position as a as a professor at a public university. It's partly my job to communicate what is going on to people who vote and have a say in these political policies. I want them to understand the issues so that they have a better handle on you know how to proceed.

Yesterday I did a an open to the public or public Like most of my talking, most of my speaking is a corporate but about six times a year, maybe twelve, It depends on the year. It depends on my other workload. But I do public stuff. Yesday did a public workshop called Understanding Me, and it was all around trying to you know, it was just opening the door on trying to understand the self. You know that physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, personally, professionally. Who am I? How am I? Why am I the way I am? What do I think the way that I do? Why do I process data the way that I do? Where do my stories come from? Where do my beliefs come from? You know? What am I doing right now that's working? What am I doing bill that's not working? What's my data telling me? What's my life telling me? What's my body telling me? You know? And it was not you know, there were more questions and solutions, but it's more about provoking people and getting people to think about you know, why do you simultaneously say to me that you want to be fitter and healthier and operate better on a physiological level. And also on the same day, put shit in your body that's fucking toxic. And now this is not self loathing, this is just awareness. So what is that about? How well do you think we understand ourselves? You know? And the self that we're talking about is multi dimensional. Obviously, it's more than physiology. It's more than psychology, it's more than sociology. It's more than emotions, it's more than behaviors. It's like, it's a multitude of things, you know. But how well do you think we understand ourselves? Is part one? And part two is how do we understand ourselves better? Which I know that that's another book, But where do we start?

Yesterday I did a an open to the public or public Like most of my talking, most of my speaking is a corporate but about six times a year, maybe twelve, It depends on the year. It depends on my other workload. But I do public stuff. Yesday did a public workshop called Understanding Me, and it was all around trying to you know, it was just opening the door on trying to understand the self. You know that physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, personally, professionally. Who am I? How am I? Why am I the way I am? What do I think the way that I do? Why do I process data the way that I do? Where do my stories come from? Where do my beliefs come from? You know? What am I doing right now that's working? What am I doing bill that's not working? What's my data telling me? What's my life telling me? What's my body telling me? You know? And it was not you know, there were more questions and solutions, but it's more about provoking people and getting people to think about you know, why do you simultaneously say to me that you want to be fitter and healthier and operate better on a physiological level. And also on the same day, put shit in your body that's fucking toxic. And now this is not self loathing, this is just awareness. So what is that about? How well do you think we understand ourselves? You know? And the self that we're talking about is multi dimensional. Obviously, it's more than physiology. It's more than psychology, it's more than sociology. It's more than emotions, it's more than behaviors. It's like, it's a multitude of things, you know. But how well do you think we understand ourselves? Is part one? And part two is how do we understand ourselves better? Which I know that that's another book, But where do we start?

Well, I was going to ask you how long your workshop was, because it could take a lifetime. I'm afraid to understand just yourself, let alone other people. But that's precisely why I wrote the book, Greg, is because I wanted to get a better understanding of some of the quirks in my own personality, some of my own idiosyncrasies that are relatively unique to me that a lot of other people don't do. I didn't understand what the basis for that difference was, so I plunged into the research, utilizing my background in the sciences to try to read all these psychology, sociology papers, genetics papers, all these other things to try to come up with some sort of simplistic understanding of what makes the human body tick. And unfortunately it's not a simple concept. And this is why some people spend virtual lifetimes in meditation practices trying to figure out what the human self really is, what constitutes it, what is it here for? How can we make it better? These are really important questions. I try and tried my best to simplify the complexity of human self in that book. There's a lot of moving parts. But I really appreciate your point in stepping back from life's busy schedule to say, whoa time out? What makes me tick? What am I here for? What can I do in my daily life, you know, both physically and mentally, to have a better, more satisfying experience, you know, before they put me into the ground. And I think that's something that everybody should do. But we get most people get so caught up in the busyness of their lives and they're kind of just going through life as a zombie or on automatic pilot, and that's why to use your illustration mentally. We know certain things are going to be unhealthy for us, but booe, there we go. We engage in those activities anyway. And that is a serious human flaw that will continue and persist until you sit down and think your way through it. If not with just yourself or a friend, you know, maybe with a therapist. Maybe that's the kind of intervention you need. But I do think a lot of this can be resolved by going all the way. And so you know, Socrates knew this over two thousand years ago. Know thyself was his motto, right, and two thousand years later, we still haven't learned that lesson because life just keeps us too busy, too distracted, and it throws a bunch of like glitter at us that you know, like like squirrels, We run to it, and it distracts our attention from some of the more deeper and meaningful things that we can get out of life. So that that is a yeah, a preface to the nuts and bolts that leads to meet me tries to to address, you know, it does try to dive into the actual biology of human behavior. There's a wide variety of explanations for why we do the things we do. It's very textual, but you've got to start somewhere, and to this day, as you as you're pointed out on the last time we got together, there's a whole slew of articles on my website, author Bill Sullivan dot com that kind of follow up on some of the things, some of the concepts that the book introduced. Because new science is coming out every day that teaches us all, you know, a little more about what makes a human being tick.

Well, I was going to ask you how long your workshop was, because it could take a lifetime. I'm afraid to understand just yourself, let alone other people. But that's precisely why I wrote the book, Greg, is because I wanted to get a better understanding of some of the quirks in my own personality, some of my own idiosyncrasies that are relatively unique to me that a lot of other people don't do. I didn't understand what the basis for that difference was, so I plunged into the research, utilizing my background in the sciences to try to read all these psychology, sociology papers, genetics papers, all these other things to try to come up with some sort of simplistic understanding of what makes the human body tick. And unfortunately it's not a simple concept. And this is why some people spend virtual lifetimes in meditation practices trying to figure out what the human self really is, what constitutes it, what is it here for? How can we make it better? These are really important questions. I try and tried my best to simplify the complexity of human self in that book. There's a lot of moving parts. But I really appreciate your point in stepping back from life's busy schedule to say, whoa time out? What makes me tick? What am I here for? What can I do in my daily life, you know, both physically and mentally, to have a better, more satisfying experience, you know, before they put me into the ground. And I think that's something that everybody should do. But we get most people get so caught up in the busyness of their lives and they're kind of just going through life as a zombie or on automatic pilot, and that's why to use your illustration mentally. We know certain things are going to be unhealthy for us, but booe, there we go. We engage in those activities anyway. And that is a serious human flaw that will continue and persist until you sit down and think your way through it. If not with just yourself or a friend, you know, maybe with a therapist. Maybe that's the kind of intervention you need. But I do think a lot of this can be resolved by going all the way. And so you know, Socrates knew this over two thousand years ago. Know thyself was his motto, right, and two thousand years later, we still haven't learned that lesson because life just keeps us too busy, too distracted, and it throws a bunch of like glitter at us that you know, like like squirrels, We run to it, and it distracts our attention from some of the more deeper and meaningful things that we can get out of life. So that that is a yeah, a preface to the nuts and bolts that leads to meet me tries to to address, you know, it does try to dive into the actual biology of human behavior. There's a wide variety of explanations for why we do the things we do. It's very textual, but you've got to start somewhere, and to this day, as you as you're pointed out on the last time we got together, there's a whole slew of articles on my website, author Bill Sullivan dot com that kind of follow up on some of the things, some of the concepts that the book introduced. Because new science is coming out every day that teaches us all, you know, a little more about what makes a human being tick.

And I think that you know the macro of what makes a human tick, and then we kind of narrow down the focus to the micro of what makes me tick, you know. And because what will work for Bill depending on what we're talking about, won't work for Craig and vice versa. You know, I've just started. I'll finish your book first. But I listened to the first bit of a book by a journo researcher called Abigail SHREI I might have talked to you about this, I'm not sure, but she wrote a book called Bad Therapy. Have you heard of that book?

And I think that you know the macro of what makes a human tick, and then we kind of narrow down the focus to the micro of what makes me tick, you know. And because what will work for Bill depending on what we're talking about, won't work for Craig and vice versa. You know, I've just started. I'll finish your book first. But I listened to the first bit of a book by a journo researcher called Abigail SHREI I might have talked to you about this, I'm not sure, but she wrote a book called Bad Therapy. Have you heard of that book?

I think I have, but I haven't read it.

I think I have, but I haven't read it.

Anyway, It's basically she just points out something which when you talk about it, you go, well, yeah, of course that makes sense. And her assertion followed up and followed backed up by like a lot of great conversations with therapists and some pretty solid research, is that for some people talk therapy is really productive and valuable and therapeutic in the literal sense, but some people going back and revisiting what were perhaps traumatic experiences, does the opposite. It doesn't help, It doesn't heal, you know. And so which did not say talk therapy, for example, is good or bad. It depends on the individual, which is like you know, nuts and almonds and seeds for some people are awesome, for some people they're not. You know, for me, working for myself not having a boss for the last forty years is for me a perfect model because I get to be able to do what I want and create my own thing. Fall down, fuck up, learn, grow, evolve. I don't work well in that kind of employee situation framework, and it's not that it's good or bad, it's just what works for me. So I think one of the challenges for us is, you know, trying to understand our self. You know, almost n equals one that what is my what's my body telling me, what's my emotional system telling me? Like for me, standing in front of an audience is like my happy place. For someone else, it's the most terrifying thing they'll ever do. And it's not that being in front of an audience is good or bad. It's you know, just like nuts are not good or bad, or like six hours sleep is not good or bad. But it all comes down to the way that I guess our individual physiology, psychology, emotion responds to a range of different variables, right, and trying to understand that for ourselves. Right, I feel like I feel like I just overshared their I apologize.

Anyway, It's basically she just points out something which when you talk about it, you go, well, yeah, of course that makes sense. And her assertion followed up and followed backed up by like a lot of great conversations with therapists and some pretty solid research, is that for some people talk therapy is really productive and valuable and therapeutic in the literal sense, but some people going back and revisiting what were perhaps traumatic experiences, does the opposite. It doesn't help, It doesn't heal, you know. And so which did not say talk therapy, for example, is good or bad. It depends on the individual, which is like you know, nuts and almonds and seeds for some people are awesome, for some people they're not. You know, for me, working for myself not having a boss for the last forty years is for me a perfect model because I get to be able to do what I want and create my own thing. Fall down, fuck up, learn, grow, evolve. I don't work well in that kind of employee situation framework, and it's not that it's good or bad, it's just what works for me. So I think one of the challenges for us is, you know, trying to understand our self. You know, almost n equals one that what is my what's my body telling me, what's my emotional system telling me? Like for me, standing in front of an audience is like my happy place. For someone else, it's the most terrifying thing they'll ever do. And it's not that being in front of an audience is good or bad. It's you know, just like nuts are not good or bad, or like six hours sleep is not good or bad. But it all comes down to the way that I guess our individual physiology, psychology, emotion responds to a range of different variables, right, and trying to understand that for ourselves. Right, I feel like I feel like I just overshared their I apologize.

No, you didn't over share it at all. But I think that's a key insight that a lot of people need to realize, is that, you know, from a geneticist point of view, the number of genes that are different between any two individuals anywhere in the world is almost statistically negligible. It's pretty astonishing how similar, you know, are almost identical most human beings really are. Even if you look at non human primates, there's still only about one point five percent genes that are different than us than in US than say at chimpanzee. So at a genetic level, we're in ly similar, and yet the human experience and human behaviors are so wonderfully diverse. It's just astonishing the number of differences that can arise despite the fact that our genes are virtually identical in many important ways. And what that tells me is that genes do have an important role. Don't get me wrong, but there's a lot more to life than what your genetic makeup is. And I think that's a really hopeful thing to walk away from. That message should fill people with hope because the ability to change is there, and the key to that change is reconstructing your environment. And that might sound like common sense to some people, but it's something that many of us do not take the time to think about, or we're too afraid to make those changes in order to create a better opportunity or a better world for ourselves.

No, you didn't over share it at all. But I think that's a key insight that a lot of people need to realize, is that, you know, from a geneticist point of view, the number of genes that are different between any two individuals anywhere in the world is almost statistically negligible. It's pretty astonishing how similar, you know, are almost identical most human beings really are. Even if you look at non human primates, there's still only about one point five percent genes that are different than us than in US than say at chimpanzee. So at a genetic level, we're in ly similar, and yet the human experience and human behaviors are so wonderfully diverse. It's just astonishing the number of differences that can arise despite the fact that our genes are virtually identical in many important ways. And what that tells me is that genes do have an important role. Don't get me wrong, but there's a lot more to life than what your genetic makeup is. And I think that's a really hopeful thing to walk away from. That message should fill people with hope because the ability to change is there, and the key to that change is reconstructing your environment. And that might sound like common sense to some people, but it's something that many of us do not take the time to think about, or we're too afraid to make those changes in order to create a better opportunity or a better world for ourselves.

Can you okay, reconstructing your environment? Did you just say the cada change is reconstructing your environment?

Can you okay, reconstructing your environment? Did you just say the cada change is reconstructing your environment?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

You can literally change the way your genes are activated by putting yourself in a different environment. And when I say environment, I mean all sorts of external things, pretty much anything that's non genetic, and a lot of these things, at least after you grow up, are in your control to manage, at least to some degree. Yes, you know, you certainly don't control your early childhood and what your mom and dad did you know while you were young, but once you reach a certain age, you have a lot more agency and control over that environment. So I'm not just talking about like physical features in your environment, although those are important, but I'm talking about the particular culture that you're in. You know, the neighborhood that you live in, the people you associate with, the food you put into your body, the drugs you avoid putting into your body, y the you know, the the company you keep, and what you ingest. At an intellectual level as well. Okay, what sort of media do you consume, what sort of books? You know, Internet, websites, social media, because you've got to treat that just like you know, you're you're surveying the types of foods, and there's junk foods and there's healthy foods. It's the same way with anything that you put into your brain. Okay, you have to you have to have some kind of filtration system to keep the junk out of your head, you know, or else you can be setting yourself up for disaster. And that's what I mean by recreating a good environment and one that is filled with things that don't just like make you temporarily happy, but make you sustainably content. You know, if you know yourself and you do these exercises to know yourself, you can imagine and create in your mind what sort of environment you would thrive in, and then try to create it in reality.

You can literally change the way your genes are activated by putting yourself in a different environment. And when I say environment, I mean all sorts of external things, pretty much anything that's non genetic, and a lot of these things, at least after you grow up, are in your control to manage, at least to some degree. Yes, you know, you certainly don't control your early childhood and what your mom and dad did you know while you were young, but once you reach a certain age, you have a lot more agency and control over that environment. So I'm not just talking about like physical features in your environment, although those are important, but I'm talking about the particular culture that you're in. You know, the neighborhood that you live in, the people you associate with, the food you put into your body, the drugs you avoid putting into your body, y the you know, the the company you keep, and what you ingest. At an intellectual level as well. Okay, what sort of media do you consume, what sort of books? You know, Internet, websites, social media, because you've got to treat that just like you know, you're you're surveying the types of foods, and there's junk foods and there's healthy foods. It's the same way with anything that you put into your brain. Okay, you have to you have to have some kind of filtration system to keep the junk out of your head, you know, or else you can be setting yourself up for disaster. And that's what I mean by recreating a good environment and one that is filled with things that don't just like make you temporarily happy, but make you sustainably content. You know, if you know yourself and you do these exercises to know yourself, you can imagine and create in your mind what sort of environment you would thrive in, and then try to create it in reality.

That's so smart. I love that. I am so. I grew up in the country, dock and sow country, you know, trees, forests country, and now I live in the city and I love the city. But I hate the city. You know, there's part you know, there's parts of it I love, there's parts of it. I fucking hate the city. But so where I live, I decided the best I could do was while living I actually, for the most part, I love the city. It's very convenient. There's a lot of awesome stuff and resources. But I planted in my garden bamboo trees which run around the perimeter of my whole house. And so there's bamboo trees that I plan twelve years ago. They're now about four five stories high. They're like forty fifty feet high. So where I am right now, which is in my office, all I can see is green trees, like a wall of green. And no one can actually see my house because all you can see is the trees. But on the other side of the trees is suburbia. His Benjamin is the concrete jungle. But I know, I absolutely know that being in having an office where I look out at trees is good for my nervous system. It's good for my it's good for my creativity, it's good for my cognitive function. And also he's backed up. Yeah, and also I created for myself an office which is not particularly opulent, but it's just really comfortable. Like I have this like I'm always in bare feet. I could stick my foot up right now and show you don't need to see it. But the clothes that I work the clothes Knight, the clothes that I work in, nice metallica shirt, by the way, I love that Gidea. The clothes that I work at impact how creative and how productive I am. The having bare feet does something for me, Like my feet in the carpet opposite me. Over there, about a meter there are two huge leather chairs with big arms that are old and comfortable. Right, there's lots of light, lots of glass in this office. So my point is this, if I go to university we call it UNI here college. If I go to college and I do, which I've got obviously a space at the university where I can go, my productivity is three out of ten because I'm literally sitting in essentially a cubicle and I'm looking at just white fucking walls, and it's just for me, the least inspirational environment ever. And so even if I'm doing the same thing, I know I will do better where I am right now. And for me, it's about that is that you know, consciously creating an environment or as you said, constructing or reconstructing an environment that will help you be closer to optimal. But I think, also back to what you said seven or eight, ten minutes ago, is that we tend to do a lot of what we do in this on this kind of autopilot programming where I'm doing today what I did yesterday just because I did that yesterday and the day before and the month before and the year before. And it's not that it's an optimal way of doing things. That's a familiar way of doing things, and I'm kind of comfortable with it, and so I'll stay with what I know, even though it's a three out of ten outcome, because we like familiarity and certainty and predictability and comfort, and even though it's not optimal, comfortable, So all keype doing it. It takes courage to reinvent your operating system rot.

That's so smart. I love that. I am so. I grew up in the country, dock and sow country, you know, trees, forests country, and now I live in the city and I love the city. But I hate the city. You know, there's part you know, there's parts of it I love, there's parts of it. I fucking hate the city. But so where I live, I decided the best I could do was while living I actually, for the most part, I love the city. It's very convenient. There's a lot of awesome stuff and resources. But I planted in my garden bamboo trees which run around the perimeter of my whole house. And so there's bamboo trees that I plan twelve years ago. They're now about four five stories high. They're like forty fifty feet high. So where I am right now, which is in my office, all I can see is green trees, like a wall of green. And no one can actually see my house because all you can see is the trees. But on the other side of the trees is suburbia. His Benjamin is the concrete jungle. But I know, I absolutely know that being in having an office where I look out at trees is good for my nervous system. It's good for my it's good for my creativity, it's good for my cognitive function. And also he's backed up. Yeah, and also I created for myself an office which is not particularly opulent, but it's just really comfortable. Like I have this like I'm always in bare feet. I could stick my foot up right now and show you don't need to see it. But the clothes that I work the clothes Knight, the clothes that I work in, nice metallica shirt, by the way, I love that Gidea. The clothes that I work at impact how creative and how productive I am. The having bare feet does something for me, Like my feet in the carpet opposite me. Over there, about a meter there are two huge leather chairs with big arms that are old and comfortable. Right, there's lots of light, lots of glass in this office. So my point is this, if I go to university we call it UNI here college. If I go to college and I do, which I've got obviously a space at the university where I can go, my productivity is three out of ten because I'm literally sitting in essentially a cubicle and I'm looking at just white fucking walls, and it's just for me, the least inspirational environment ever. And so even if I'm doing the same thing, I know I will do better where I am right now. And for me, it's about that is that you know, consciously creating an environment or as you said, constructing or reconstructing an environment that will help you be closer to optimal. But I think, also back to what you said seven or eight, ten minutes ago, is that we tend to do a lot of what we do in this on this kind of autopilot programming where I'm doing today what I did yesterday just because I did that yesterday and the day before and the month before and the year before. And it's not that it's an optimal way of doing things. That's a familiar way of doing things, and I'm kind of comfortable with it, and so I'll stay with what I know, even though it's a three out of ten outcome, because we like familiarity and certainty and predictability and comfort, and even though it's not optimal, comfortable, So all keype doing it. It takes courage to reinvent your operating system rot.

It takes courage, but it can be really fun. And maybe this is the scientist in me, but I've experimented with all sorts of configurations of this room as well as different environments to find out where I'm most productive when I'm doing a certain thing. Yeah, okay, And I also appreciate your point very much about getting outside and getting back to nature to kind of stimulate the creative juices.

It takes courage, but it can be really fun. And maybe this is the scientist in me, but I've experimented with all sorts of configurations of this room as well as different environments to find out where I'm most productive when I'm doing a certain thing. Yeah, okay, And I also appreciate your point very much about getting outside and getting back to nature to kind of stimulate the creative juices.

Yes, okay, So.

Yes, okay, So.

I really enjoy when I have to write working from home. Of course, I have an office back on campus, but ironically, I don't feel that I'm as productive writing in that office, okay, which does not have a beautiful view out the window, and I'm constantly interrupted by this or that, you know, And you know, it's not that I'm bashing that. I just expect it. You know, when you're there, it's easy to interrupt Bill and talk to him, and that's perfectly fine, but I have to know that going in that I'm not going to be as productive. Then I can be undisturbed. Here I have a beautiful view outside this window. Here, I push my desk straight up against the window on purpose so that I can watch, you know, in the yard. I can see birds, and you know, I see children. Sometimes the birds swoop down and attack the children, just kidding.

I really enjoy when I have to write working from home. Of course, I have an office back on campus, but ironically, I don't feel that I'm as productive writing in that office, okay, which does not have a beautiful view out the window, and I'm constantly interrupted by this or that, you know, And you know, it's not that I'm bashing that. I just expect it. You know, when you're there, it's easy to interrupt Bill and talk to him, and that's perfectly fine, but I have to know that going in that I'm not going to be as productive. Then I can be undisturbed. Here I have a beautiful view outside this window. Here, I push my desk straight up against the window on purpose so that I can watch, you know, in the yard. I can see birds, and you know, I see children. Sometimes the birds swoop down and attack the children, just kidding.

Every now and then they carry a small one away, and it makes my day, to.

Every now and then they carry a small one away, and it makes my day, to.

Be honest, But I think you get what I'm saying. There's these beautiful trees, wildlife comes by, you see squirrels, you see birds, you see all these other things, and it just it stimulates the creative juice. It's something about that greenery and the natural environment, blue skies. It just really gets my juices flowing. And maybe that's not for everybody. You know, some people might require like a cubicle sterile office, and that's where they work best because there's really literally nothing else to do, nothing to distract them. And again, exactly it's worked for me, correct, and it's not right or wrong it's like what works for you individually, and like I've spoken to many people who you know, go many people have said to me, I don't know how you do your job, like because for my like I don't have a weekly wage, I don't have a set income.

Be honest, But I think you get what I'm saying. There's these beautiful trees, wildlife comes by, you see squirrels, you see birds, you see all these other things, and it just it stimulates the creative juice. It's something about that greenery and the natural environment, blue skies. It just really gets my juices flowing. And maybe that's not for everybody. You know, some people might require like a cubicle sterile office, and that's where they work best because there's really literally nothing else to do, nothing to distract them. And again, exactly it's worked for me, correct, and it's not right or wrong it's like what works for you individually, and like I've spoken to many people who you know, go many people have said to me, I don't know how you do your job, like because for my like I don't have a weekly wage, I don't have a set income.

I don't have sick pay, I don't have holiday pay, I don't have you know, I don't have a lot of the benefits that a lot of people have and deserve. I don't have those because I chose this other path, and there's a lot of vulnerability and a lot of risk with that.

I don't have sick pay, I don't have holiday pay, I don't have you know, I don't have a lot of the benefits that a lot of people have and deserve. I don't have those because I chose this other path, and there's a lot of vulnerability and a lot of risk with that.

And you'd like talk to some pretty cool people that are amazing.

And you'd like talk to some pretty cool people that are amazing.

Well I'm not even being well you, you're fucking around a bit. But like I, I honestly think it's a privilege that I get to talk to you. I truly mean that, and I know that without my podcast, I wouldn't meet you. I wouldn't get to connect with you and so many other brilliant, amazing people. And it's like it's apart from the fact that it's it's fortunately it's worked out, Like we have an audience, there's a commercial reality to the show. We have sponsors, which is amazing. We've heard in lots of countries, which is awesome, and I love all of that because it's good to make them do right. But I love more the fact that in the last six years of this show, but I've been more educated through this medium, through meeting people like you, than I have through any other thing that I've done, including my PhD. My PhD is amazing, but it's not It doesn't compare to this, and some people would find that, you know it is. It's a very different kind of learning and a very different outcome. But for me this has been a real blessing. But at the same time, you know, a lot of people find the idea like, you know, you're a bit of a unicorn. You get on this and you are very comfortable, very you know, this is you. You're about as anxious as you would be having a coffee in a chat with anyone. But most people are not you. You know, there are so many people that doing the same thing you're doing now, which is I'm doing an interview or a chat with Craig. It's being recorded, it's being filmed, it's going to go around the world, thousands of people going to listen to that. Just that reality. Some people get on the podcast and they're terrified. They even though they're normally good communicators, they can't string three words together.

Well I'm not even being well you, you're fucking around a bit. But like I, I honestly think it's a privilege that I get to talk to you. I truly mean that, and I know that without my podcast, I wouldn't meet you. I wouldn't get to connect with you and so many other brilliant, amazing people. And it's like it's apart from the fact that it's it's fortunately it's worked out, Like we have an audience, there's a commercial reality to the show. We have sponsors, which is amazing. We've heard in lots of countries, which is awesome, and I love all of that because it's good to make them do right. But I love more the fact that in the last six years of this show, but I've been more educated through this medium, through meeting people like you, than I have through any other thing that I've done, including my PhD. My PhD is amazing, but it's not It doesn't compare to this, and some people would find that, you know it is. It's a very different kind of learning and a very different outcome. But for me this has been a real blessing. But at the same time, you know, a lot of people find the idea like, you know, you're a bit of a unicorn. You get on this and you are very comfortable, very you know, this is you. You're about as anxious as you would be having a coffee in a chat with anyone. But most people are not you. You know, there are so many people that doing the same thing you're doing now, which is I'm doing an interview or a chat with Craig. It's being recorded, it's being filmed, it's going to go around the world, thousands of people going to listen to that. Just that reality. Some people get on the podcast and they're terrified. They even though they're normally good communicators, they can't string three words together.

Yeah. Yeah, I've run into that in my profession as well, because I like to encourage all scientists and physicians to get out there and do more of what I'm doing, you know, to get out there and speak to the general public, tell them what's up. But I've encouraged some people to do that, and I feel bad that I did that because they can't do it. They don't have that skill, they don't have that talent, and I didn't appreciate that early on. I stand corrected. You know, this is not for everybody, but fortunately there's folks like you who take a chance on those in the Ivory Tower and put them on the air and learn more about what they do and what makes them tick, and you expose their thoughts, opinions and expertise to a huge audience that they would never have access to without people like you. You know. So, I think podcasters like yourself who have stepped up to get you know, professionals and expert opinion into the ears of people who don't normally get a chance to hear it. I think that's a wonderful thing that technology allows us to do now.

Yeah. Yeah, I've run into that in my profession as well, because I like to encourage all scientists and physicians to get out there and do more of what I'm doing, you know, to get out there and speak to the general public, tell them what's up. But I've encouraged some people to do that, and I feel bad that I did that because they can't do it. They don't have that skill, they don't have that talent, and I didn't appreciate that early on. I stand corrected. You know, this is not for everybody, but fortunately there's folks like you who take a chance on those in the Ivory Tower and put them on the air and learn more about what they do and what makes them tick, and you expose their thoughts, opinions and expertise to a huge audience that they would never have access to without people like you. You know. So, I think podcasters like yourself who have stepped up to get you know, professionals and expert opinion into the ears of people who don't normally get a chance to hear it. I think that's a wonderful thing that technology allows us to do now.

And I think, and I'm not talking about myself here, but I think if you get the right person talking to somebody, the right interviewer or the right podcast to talk to somebody, even somebody who's a bit clunky and nervous and uncomfortable, done the right way, over time, you can create a good outcome. But having said that, there's been about ten interviews that I've done over the last six years which never saw the light of day. They were just, oh my god, so bad. Obviously, I'm not going to mention a name. I'll tell you one or two off air, but a very very very famous person that I did that nearly everyone would know this person's name. Amazing writer, amazing mind, amazing book, terrible, terrible on a microphone. But anyway, so we can't be experts at everything. Everybody's got their strength and weaknesses. And also, you know, there's one thing to have knowledge, expertise, understanding, there's another thing to be able to share that you know comfortably and to be under you know, like you don't. I'm sure right now you don't feel any particular pressure. But for a lot of people I can almost, well not almost. I can sense their anxiety. I can sense the pressure, the stress, the nerves, you know, and yeah, it's it just is what it is. You can't switch it off. You can't. You can't take that away for them. So, you know, I try to be as aware and understanding as I can and kind of walk them through it a little bit. I've stopped quite a few podcasts five minutes in and I've said all right, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've said all right, we're going to start again. I just want to talk to you before we start. I go, you going okay, I said, But the you that I spoke to before we started recording, that's the you that I want, because that you people will love. And I said, the moment that we started recording, you were different, right, And I said, I want you to just try hard. I know it's hard and it's probably not great advice, but it's the best of got Just chat with me, just like it's you and me. We're having a coffee, and if you fuck anything up, we'll leedit it out. If you say something that at the end you think, oh I wish I didn't talk about my mum. Could you take that bit about my mum out. The answer is yes, we can so because people overthink everything and when you're overthinking, you're not being you, you know, and you can't connect.

And I think, and I'm not talking about myself here, but I think if you get the right person talking to somebody, the right interviewer or the right podcast to talk to somebody, even somebody who's a bit clunky and nervous and uncomfortable, done the right way, over time, you can create a good outcome. But having said that, there's been about ten interviews that I've done over the last six years which never saw the light of day. They were just, oh my god, so bad. Obviously, I'm not going to mention a name. I'll tell you one or two off air, but a very very very famous person that I did that nearly everyone would know this person's name. Amazing writer, amazing mind, amazing book, terrible, terrible on a microphone. But anyway, so we can't be experts at everything. Everybody's got their strength and weaknesses. And also, you know, there's one thing to have knowledge, expertise, understanding, there's another thing to be able to share that you know comfortably and to be under you know, like you don't. I'm sure right now you don't feel any particular pressure. But for a lot of people I can almost, well not almost. I can sense their anxiety. I can sense the pressure, the stress, the nerves, you know, and yeah, it's it just is what it is. You can't switch it off. You can't. You can't take that away for them. So, you know, I try to be as aware and understanding as I can and kind of walk them through it a little bit. I've stopped quite a few podcasts five minutes in and I've said all right, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I've said all right, we're going to start again. I just want to talk to you before we start. I go, you going okay, I said, But the you that I spoke to before we started recording, that's the you that I want, because that you people will love. And I said, the moment that we started recording, you were different, right, And I said, I want you to just try hard. I know it's hard and it's probably not great advice, but it's the best of got Just chat with me, just like it's you and me. We're having a coffee, and if you fuck anything up, we'll leedit it out. If you say something that at the end you think, oh I wish I didn't talk about my mum. Could you take that bit about my mum out. The answer is yes, we can so because people overthink everything and when you're overthinking, you're not being you, you know, and you can't connect.

All right, So Mady comes in quick one hundredcent.

All right, So Mady comes in quick one hundredcent.

Now, what I didn't tell you was in one of my groups, I told everyone I was chatting with you, and I said, give me some questions for the great Man. So here's what I'm going to do. We're going to do about if you're right with this, twenty to thirty minutes of me just asking you, which is not a very Craig model, but I'm going to do it anyway, and one or two minutes, it doesn't matter, as long as you want. But here's my idea. I'm going to go speak about this for a minute. You tell us, and then I go cool, and then another one and another one. So I want to tap into some of your genius, all right.

Now, what I didn't tell you was in one of my groups, I told everyone I was chatting with you, and I said, give me some questions for the great Man. So here's what I'm going to do. We're going to do about if you're right with this, twenty to thirty minutes of me just asking you, which is not a very Craig model, but I'm going to do it anyway, and one or two minutes, it doesn't matter, as long as you want. But here's my idea. I'm going to go speak about this for a minute. You tell us, and then I go cool, and then another one and another one. So I want to tap into some of your genius, all right.

I'll do my best, all.

I'll do my best, all.

Right, So I want to talk. I want you to talk to us a little bit about from a genetic or a biological point of view, how that intersects with will power, self control and discipline, will power, self controlled discipline, wherever you want to go with that. What are your thoughts on that.

Right, So I want to talk. I want you to talk to us a little bit about from a genetic or a biological point of view, how that intersects with will power, self control and discipline, will power, self controlled discipline, wherever you want to go with that. What are your thoughts on that.

That's a that's a great question, because there have been some high profile studies that have been done in the past that have looked at self control and discipline in children. Okay, there's this famous experiment called the marshmallow test, where you basically tell a child put a marshmallow in front of them and tell them, Okay, you can eat that now, but if you can wait fifteen minutes, I'll give you two marshmallows. Yeah, okay, And I forget which percentage of children can actually wait the fifteen minutes, but there's a fair number of them that cannot, okay, and then a fair number that can, and those that can were viewed as having more self control, and then, I don't know, fifteen twenty years later, the experimenters analyze where these children ended up in life, and according to their results, those who the children that exercise self control did better on just about every single metric you can imagine. They had better grades, they had better graduation rates, they had better higher paying jobs, their marriages were stable, blah blah blah. Almost everything you looked at. People with self control had better life outcomes, And if you think about it, that's not a real revolutionary discovery. You know, it's makes common sense if you think about it, because people with self control have the discipline to take a time out and think about choices, perhaps more rationally or with you know, less emotion and more logic. So the theory went. Now that famous experiment has come under fire recently, and because some people have failed to replicate it. You know, they can identify children that have more self control than others at the time, but then when they do these longitudinal analyzes down the road, they don't see correlations between better self control and better life outcomes. So it's really difficult to say where self control fits in into life's success. And you can also argue that what happens in children is not what happens down the road and adults. Yes, the other thing that was important Craig in the initial studies is that they didn't control for socioeconomic factors. So some of the things that could have really influenced a child's positive life outcomes might not have been self control, but it might have been because their parents were more well off and they could afford too, They could afford better schools, things like that, extracurricular activities and so on so long story short, These sorts of analyzes in people are incredibly hard to do because there's so many confounding variables that can come into the equation. So if someone tells you that you don't have the genes for self control, where you don't have the early environment that would have set you up for life's success, I would say, you know that might not be true, and what you can do instead is to take proactive steps to improve your self control. There are talk therapy sessions that have been demonstrated to increase a person's discipline. There are also medications that can cause people who might have ADHD to focus better and have more self control in that capacity. And there's simple books you can read that walk you through meditation exercises that can, over time allow you to develop better self control on your own. Yes, so there's an assortment of activities that you can engage in and you should have hope that those things are going to work. You just got to find the right formula that fits your biology.

That's a that's a great question, because there have been some high profile studies that have been done in the past that have looked at self control and discipline in children. Okay, there's this famous experiment called the marshmallow test, where you basically tell a child put a marshmallow in front of them and tell them, Okay, you can eat that now, but if you can wait fifteen minutes, I'll give you two marshmallows. Yeah, okay, And I forget which percentage of children can actually wait the fifteen minutes, but there's a fair number of them that cannot, okay, and then a fair number that can, and those that can were viewed as having more self control, and then, I don't know, fifteen twenty years later, the experimenters analyze where these children ended up in life, and according to their results, those who the children that exercise self control did better on just about every single metric you can imagine. They had better grades, they had better graduation rates, they had better higher paying jobs, their marriages were stable, blah blah blah. Almost everything you looked at. People with self control had better life outcomes, And if you think about it, that's not a real revolutionary discovery. You know, it's makes common sense if you think about it, because people with self control have the discipline to take a time out and think about choices, perhaps more rationally or with you know, less emotion and more logic. So the theory went. Now that famous experiment has come under fire recently, and because some people have failed to replicate it. You know, they can identify children that have more self control than others at the time, but then when they do these longitudinal analyzes down the road, they don't see correlations between better self control and better life outcomes. So it's really difficult to say where self control fits in into life's success. And you can also argue that what happens in children is not what happens down the road and adults. Yes, the other thing that was important Craig in the initial studies is that they didn't control for socioeconomic factors. So some of the things that could have really influenced a child's positive life outcomes might not have been self control, but it might have been because their parents were more well off and they could afford too, They could afford better schools, things like that, extracurricular activities and so on so long story short, These sorts of analyzes in people are incredibly hard to do because there's so many confounding variables that can come into the equation. So if someone tells you that you don't have the genes for self control, where you don't have the early environment that would have set you up for life's success, I would say, you know that might not be true, and what you can do instead is to take proactive steps to improve your self control. There are talk therapy sessions that have been demonstrated to increase a person's discipline. There are also medications that can cause people who might have ADHD to focus better and have more self control in that capacity. And there's simple books you can read that walk you through meditation exercises that can, over time allow you to develop better self control on your own. Yes, so there's an assortment of activities that you can engage in and you should have hope that those things are going to work. You just got to find the right formula that fits your biology.

And I was thinking about that particular study, like if I was that kid because I was a fat little kid, I loved food, but you would have just scarred I would I would have inhaled that, and then I would have gone looking for others, right.

And I was thinking about that particular study, like if I was that kid because I was a fat little kid, I loved food, but you would have just scarred I would I would have inhaled that, and then I would have gone looking for others, right.

Had some people tell me they would have inhaled theirs and then stolen everybody else's.

Had some people tell me they would have inhaled theirs and then stolen everybody else's.

Well, literally my name was Jumbo for a reason.

Well, literally my name was Jumbo for a reason.

Right.

Right.

But also I think, you know, like some of the kids might have been hungry, some might have not been hungry. You know, some might have had a more savory predisposition, some might have a more like, let's you know, if you put up you know, like some cheese and crackers, somebody might go, oh, yeah, I love you know, I think there's all right, So that's cool. Next one is this was this from Scott, one of my followers. Can doctor Bill talk about genetics and addiction?

But also I think, you know, like some of the kids might have been hungry, some might have not been hungry. You know, some might have had a more savory predisposition, some might have a more like, let's you know, if you put up you know, like some cheese and crackers, somebody might go, oh, yeah, I love you know, I think there's all right, So that's cool. Next one is this was this from Scott, one of my followers. Can doctor Bill talk about genetics and addiction?

Oh yes, I wrote a whole chapter on that in the book, but I'll be happy to give you a little synopsis of it. And the way I've approached it was the way scientists approached it. Shortly after the human genome was sequenced. This was about twenty four years ago. Now, scientists actually actively sought out Ozzy Osbourne's genome. So Ozzy Osbourne, you know, the heavy metal music start, has notorious problems or had notorious problems with drugs and alcohol throughout the majority of his early career. Fortunately he was able to turn that around. But back in the day, scientists viewed him as the perfect specimens and he was actually one of the very first people on the planet to get his genome sequenced by scientists. Wow, you know, you would have thought they went after intellectuals or top athletes or something like that to figure out Michael Jordan's are, yeah, that make these people so uniquely talented, But in a way, they were interested in Ozzy Osbourne's talent of you know, putting away a liquor store like inside an hour or something you could just drink like a fish, right.

Oh yes, I wrote a whole chapter on that in the book, but I'll be happy to give you a little synopsis of it. And the way I've approached it was the way scientists approached it. Shortly after the human genome was sequenced. This was about twenty four years ago. Now, scientists actually actively sought out Ozzy Osbourne's genome. So Ozzy Osbourne, you know, the heavy metal music start, has notorious problems or had notorious problems with drugs and alcohol throughout the majority of his early career. Fortunately he was able to turn that around. But back in the day, scientists viewed him as the perfect specimens and he was actually one of the very first people on the planet to get his genome sequenced by scientists. Wow, you know, you would have thought they went after intellectuals or top athletes or something like that to figure out Michael Jordan's are, yeah, that make these people so uniquely talented, But in a way, they were interested in Ozzy Osbourne's talent of you know, putting away a liquor store like inside an hour or something you could just drink like a fish, right.

And lo and behold.

And lo and behold.

When they analyzed his genome, they found a never before seen mutation in this gene called ADH four, which is encodes an enzyme that works in the liver to detoxify alcohol. So it's pretty remarkable the mutation he had would have cranked out tons of this enzyme. So Ozzie Osbourne literally has a liver that can just demolish alcohol, and it explains in part why he could put away so much. Now it doesn't explain why he might have been addicted to the substance. So this is where something called GWOSS studies come in. This is genome wide association studies. And in the past twenty four years, sequencing a genome has gotten very easy to do and very inexpensive, not like when Ozzie Osbourne had his first done. So lots of people have done this. Now hundreds of thousands of people have basically handed over their genome to science, including people who struggle with drugs and alcohol. And one of the main common features out of looking at all these people who struggle with addiction and all the people who don't, is that the people who struggle with addiction have a hyperactive brain because of a series of mutations that crank or that cause what is called a GABA deficiency. Gaba is a neurotransmitter in the brain, and it inhibits the brain. It's it calms it down, okay, And it's a really essential neurotransmitter that you need in order to focus, to maintain attention, and even to fall asleep, you know, because you because you need to inhibit the brain's ability to go in all sorts of different directions. But that's what uh an addicts mind goes through. And again I'm just generalizing here. There's obviously other explanations, but for a lot of the people who had their genome sequence, they have some sort of gene that leads to a deficiency in the neurotransmitter GABBA, which results in a hyperactive brain. Now, the chemical formula for alcohol looks very similar to the chemical formula for that neurotransmitter, and in fact works very similarly. So when people ingest alcohol, they're basically given themselves a medicine to calm their brain down. Unfortunately, it's a highly addictive medicine. So that's the bad news. The good news, Craig, is that now that we know this, and that a lot of people who struggle with alcohol have this common deficiency, we can now design compounds that look like GABBA but are not addictive, and therefore therapeutically treat people who struggle with alcoholism. I get very excited about it.

When they analyzed his genome, they found a never before seen mutation in this gene called ADH four, which is encodes an enzyme that works in the liver to detoxify alcohol. So it's pretty remarkable the mutation he had would have cranked out tons of this enzyme. So Ozzie Osbourne literally has a liver that can just demolish alcohol, and it explains in part why he could put away so much. Now it doesn't explain why he might have been addicted to the substance. So this is where something called GWOSS studies come in. This is genome wide association studies. And in the past twenty four years, sequencing a genome has gotten very easy to do and very inexpensive, not like when Ozzie Osbourne had his first done. So lots of people have done this. Now hundreds of thousands of people have basically handed over their genome to science, including people who struggle with drugs and alcohol. And one of the main common features out of looking at all these people who struggle with addiction and all the people who don't, is that the people who struggle with addiction have a hyperactive brain because of a series of mutations that crank or that cause what is called a GABA deficiency. Gaba is a neurotransmitter in the brain, and it inhibits the brain. It's it calms it down, okay, And it's a really essential neurotransmitter that you need in order to focus, to maintain attention, and even to fall asleep, you know, because you because you need to inhibit the brain's ability to go in all sorts of different directions. But that's what uh an addicts mind goes through. And again I'm just generalizing here. There's obviously other explanations, but for a lot of the people who had their genome sequence, they have some sort of gene that leads to a deficiency in the neurotransmitter GABBA, which results in a hyperactive brain. Now, the chemical formula for alcohol looks very similar to the chemical formula for that neurotransmitter, and in fact works very similarly. So when people ingest alcohol, they're basically given themselves a medicine to calm their brain down. Unfortunately, it's a highly addictive medicine. So that's the bad news. The good news, Craig, is that now that we know this, and that a lot of people who struggle with alcohol have this common deficiency, we can now design compounds that look like GABBA but are not addictive, and therefore therapeutically treat people who struggle with alcoholism. I get very excited about it.

Yeah, it's so fascinating. We've had a guy on this show a bunch of times who has had a really interesting, well colorful, colorful life. His name's Nicole. He would say alcoholic, addict, clan and cyber for a long time now spent quite a lot of I think fifty and sixteen seven eight years in pre and like, you know, interesting life. And now he's clean and sober and he works with other people and he's turned his life around and amazing. But he tells the story about when he had his first drink of alcohol. He was twelve, and he said it felt like he'd come home. He said, it felt like, oh my god, this is what's been missing. And he said, the actual stuff itself. I think it was something like I forget, I don't drink booze, so but it was some cheap, shitty alcohol and he said it tasted horrible, but what it made him feel, what it did to his brain. He said, I knew then that I would never stop drinking, you know, like that was the And he was twelve years old. And I'm like, I can't even grasp that. But that story, with what you just said, well that makes sense. Yeah, it really.

Yeah, it's so fascinating. We've had a guy on this show a bunch of times who has had a really interesting, well colorful, colorful life. His name's Nicole. He would say alcoholic, addict, clan and cyber for a long time now spent quite a lot of I think fifty and sixteen seven eight years in pre and like, you know, interesting life. And now he's clean and sober and he works with other people and he's turned his life around and amazing. But he tells the story about when he had his first drink of alcohol. He was twelve, and he said it felt like he'd come home. He said, it felt like, oh my god, this is what's been missing. And he said, the actual stuff itself. I think it was something like I forget, I don't drink booze, so but it was some cheap, shitty alcohol and he said it tasted horrible, but what it made him feel, what it did to his brain. He said, I knew then that I would never stop drinking, you know, like that was the And he was twelve years old. And I'm like, I can't even grasp that. But that story, with what you just said, well that makes sense. Yeah, it really.

Enlaightened me because I always kind of thought about, like the first question you asked, this was all about discipline, this was all about self control. And what this tells us is that, you know, not to dismiss the self control component, but these people genuinely struggle with maintaining focus. And I had a fellow come up to me at a book signing once, specifically talking about how he was an alcoholic and still struggles with it this day because he found early on, when he was young, he could not sleep without taking a drink because his brain was just going in a million different directions. And when he read about the Gabba deficiency, he was like, it all made sense to me, yes, And he was basically self medicating himself in order to get to sleep. But then, unfortunately, you know, it, became addicted to the substance and he required more and more just to achieve that sedative effect. So that's the danger of alcohol. It works as an elixir at the beginning, just like you know your guest found out at a very early age. Wow, this is making my brain feel normal. I'm going to keep taking this stuff. We need a pharmaceutical that can do what alcohol can do, but without the addictive properties exactly.

Enlaightened me because I always kind of thought about, like the first question you asked, this was all about discipline, this was all about self control. And what this tells us is that, you know, not to dismiss the self control component, but these people genuinely struggle with maintaining focus. And I had a fellow come up to me at a book signing once, specifically talking about how he was an alcoholic and still struggles with it this day because he found early on, when he was young, he could not sleep without taking a drink because his brain was just going in a million different directions. And when he read about the Gabba deficiency, he was like, it all made sense to me, yes, And he was basically self medicating himself in order to get to sleep. But then, unfortunately, you know, it, became addicted to the substance and he required more and more just to achieve that sedative effect. So that's the danger of alcohol. It works as an elixir at the beginning, just like you know your guest found out at a very early age. Wow, this is making my brain feel normal. I'm going to keep taking this stuff. We need a pharmaceutical that can do what alcohol can do, but without the addictive properties exactly.

And it's not that I was just going to say, it's not that people want the booze. As much as they want the outcome of the booze, they want the effect, right, all right, let's plow on, Stacy, dear doctor Bill, how much free will do we actually have? Now, I know that's a whole podcast, and I know that that is that you can't even scrape the surface in two minutes, But give it a go, doc, so or however you want to talk about free will.

And it's not that I was just going to say, it's not that people want the booze. As much as they want the outcome of the booze, they want the effect, right, all right, let's plow on, Stacy, dear doctor Bill, how much free will do we actually have? Now, I know that's a whole podcast, and I know that that is that you can't even scrape the surface in two minutes, But give it a go, doc, so or however you want to talk about free will.

I get asked that question a lot, and I share her fascination with it. I have not come to a definitive answer, but the more I think about the topic, the less free will I think we actually have. Now, what does that mean for us on a day to day basis? Probably nothing, because we don't really go through life thinking of out whether all of our actions are determined or not. I mean, when you go and cross the street, you're still going to look both ways. You know, whether you believe the universe is deterministic or not, it's you know you're going to look both ways. So you know, I think you know. And anyone who's read my book comes away with a more humble sense of free will. And not only does that make you think about yourself in different philosophical terms and maybe what life is all about, but it engenders a lot more empathy for other people who do things that you would not agree with. Okay, think about that for a moment. If you had their genes, if you had their experiences, you grew up in their culture, you would be them. Okay, you know we are confined by our biology and our unique set of experiences. That equation makes us who we are, and it also makes anyone else who they are. So you have to have a lot more humility when you approach someone who has differences in opinion or political beliefs or what have you. And instead of just hating each other right off the bat or ignoring one another, get into a dialogue, get into a conversation, learn about what those experiences are that have led you to such different beliefs. I think that's a much healthier way for human beings to function as a society. But yeah, the short answer, you know, when you consider genes and the environmental forces that you don't have control over, the random luck or bad luck that happens to someone that is completely outside of your control. There's a component in my book that talks about microbes, the microbiome, and maybe pathogens in your body that can affect your behavior. There's just all sorts of things outside of your control that really make you wonder. I don't have as much free will as I thought I did.

I get asked that question a lot, and I share her fascination with it. I have not come to a definitive answer, but the more I think about the topic, the less free will I think we actually have. Now, what does that mean for us on a day to day basis? Probably nothing, because we don't really go through life thinking of out whether all of our actions are determined or not. I mean, when you go and cross the street, you're still going to look both ways. You know, whether you believe the universe is deterministic or not, it's you know you're going to look both ways. So you know, I think you know. And anyone who's read my book comes away with a more humble sense of free will. And not only does that make you think about yourself in different philosophical terms and maybe what life is all about, but it engenders a lot more empathy for other people who do things that you would not agree with. Okay, think about that for a moment. If you had their genes, if you had their experiences, you grew up in their culture, you would be them. Okay, you know we are confined by our biology and our unique set of experiences. That equation makes us who we are, and it also makes anyone else who they are. So you have to have a lot more humility when you approach someone who has differences in opinion or political beliefs or what have you. And instead of just hating each other right off the bat or ignoring one another, get into a dialogue, get into a conversation, learn about what those experiences are that have led you to such different beliefs. I think that's a much healthier way for human beings to function as a society. But yeah, the short answer, you know, when you consider genes and the environmental forces that you don't have control over, the random luck or bad luck that happens to someone that is completely outside of your control. There's a component in my book that talks about microbes, the microbiome, and maybe pathogens in your body that can affect your behavior. There's just all sorts of things outside of your control that really make you wonder. I don't have as much free will as I thought I did.

Yeah, but that's okay, yeah, yeah, I love it. All right. This is from Sky. It's a nice name. Sky. Thank you for your question, Doctor Bill. This will probably cover this a little bit, but maybe how do I she's thought this question through. I feel like this might be for you, Sky. How do our genetics shape our psychological responses to stress, anxiety, and depression. Are there specific genes linked to resilience and vulnerability?

Yeah, but that's okay, yeah, yeah, I love it. All right. This is from Sky. It's a nice name. Sky. Thank you for your question, Doctor Bill. This will probably cover this a little bit, but maybe how do I she's thought this question through. I feel like this might be for you, Sky. How do our genetics shape our psychological responses to stress, anxiety, and depression. Are there specific genes linked to resilience and vulnerability?

Yes, there's certainly a lot. I mean, genes build our brain, Okay, they governed the construction of our brain. They also govern the neurochemistry that runs through it, so that's controlled at a genetic level, but it can also maybe be controlled to some extent by an epigenetic force. You knows in the environment can epigenetically change the genes that are functioning in our brain. Epigenetics has been intimately shown to be related to memory and experience. Recall, even the microbes in our gut, and this is one of the things that really blew my mind when I was researching Pleased to meet me. The intestinal microbiome that we all have makes ninety percent of our serotonin, which is one of the major mood regulators that functions in our brain. So if you're not taking good care of your intestinal bacteria, which you can get a little sense of control over through diet, you could be dysregulating your mood and whether or not you're predisposed to depression because your serotonin is all out of balance because of these bacteria in your gut. It's a really remarkable arena of research. Now, the question also asked about resilience, because there's this fascinating group of people that even they might have experienced ACES, which are adverse childhood experiences in their youth. You know, a lot of people who experience those grow up to have major behavioral problems, predisposition for depression and suicide. But there's a considerable number of people who are resistant to those negative outcomes, and they've always perplexed psychologists and scientists alike. And here's where we have another series of GWAS studies, Craig, these genome wide association studies. So you get a bunch of people who experienced ACES and those who had negative outcomes, you sequence all their genomes, and those who were resilient, you sequence all their genomes, and then you do a comparison. And one of the most interesting genes to fall out of that comparison is that the resilient people have a mutation in a gene called BDNF, which is I think I got that right. It's a brain is a brain protective factor. And I apologize I can't remember the name right off at the top of my head, but it's fascinating that a gene that is mutated in people who are resilient functions to protect the brain. So now you can formulate a hypothesis that resilience might not even be all about, you know, psychology. These people may actually have a gene that is helping to protect their brain.