The next chapter with prim s ripa Pat is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey Everybody, It's Prim. Welcome to the next chapter, presented by Baron Davis and Slick Studios. Uh. Speaking of b D. Today, we wrap up season two of the next Chapter with the one and only Baron Davis, a k a. The Godfather of Los Angeles Basketball. I wouldn't necessarily say we say the best for us, because obviously every one of our guests are equally important and special, but b D does have a very special place, at least within the context of this show as the executive producer and also a founder of Slick Studios. I mean, he's played such an integral role in supporting and fueling and really just keeping the show alive, and for that I am deeply, deeply grateful. But his story definitely aligns with the concept of the show. Yeah where three to what? The next chapter with prims to ripa Pad is a production of I Heart Radio, Hey Everybody, Oh sorry to The next chapter with Prims ripa Pad is a production of I Heart Radio. Hey Everybody, It's Prim. Welcome to the next chapter, presented by Baron Davis and Slick Studios. Speaking of b D. Today, we wrap up season two of the next Chapter with the one and only Baron Davis, a k a. The Godfather of Los Angeles Basketball. Now, I wouldn't necessarily say we saved the best for last, because obviously every single one of our guests are equally important and special, But I will say b D does have a special place, at least within the context of this show, since he is the executive producer and founder of Studios, and he has played such an integral role in supporting and fueling and keeping this show alive. And for that I am deeply, deeply, deeply grateful. But his story does perfectly aligned with the concept of the show, and I'm really excited for you to hear more about his fascinating journey, which has a lot of twists and turns from South central l A. Living with his grandmother to this schemes Ina Monica prep school and Crossroads to McDonald's All American to u C l A to the NBA, where he had a thirteen year professional career and became a two time NBA All Star and two time NBA Steals Leader. I mean, he could have stopped there, but he didn't, and not only has he remained a fixture within NBA circles as a basketball analyst but also someone who's really focused on giving back to the community through basketball. But he became an actor, a filmmaker, a producer, director, documentarian, investor, entreprene nor also father, just so many things. And as I was preparing for this conversation and doing some research, I started to realize just how many interviews he's done, and not just in sports, but with so many other outlets and shows, just because of his wide ranging interests and projects. And in listening back to these interviews, I started to notice how a lot of them seemed to follow the same cadence and address the same areas of his life, most of which are highlighted on his Wicked Pedia page, which, by the way, I use a lot, and I get it so early in our interview, I pose the question, what's the one thing people have failed to ask when they're asking about your journey? And I asked that because I wanted to give him the opportunity to tell a different side of his story and untold aspect of his story. And his answer was, how how did I do it? That's what people have failed to ask me? And that became the basis of our conversation. So rather than talking about the what, what he achieved, and what he did, and exploring the how how he made it this far, how he overcame these obstacles, how he found his north star through and beyond basketball, by asking how we can have a much better appreciation and understanding of just who Barren is, not just as a former athlete, but today as a person. So, without further ado, here we are B D and I in sunny Los Angeles, California, on the set of Slick Studios. And I known that you don't watch yourself or listen to yourself, I would have brought a TV or monitor. I kind of play a little part of you so you can watch yourself. It's not funny, too bad. It is the biggest word in that sense, if you would. But you watch yourself. But you watch yourself playing basketball a lot, a lot, not a lot. Just if I'm with somebody or my kids, I'm always like trying to shut my kids and then I just start watching I love basketball. Um yeah, I just love basketball. Weather's watching myself old eighties, nineties. Other dudes like I just I just love basketball and love you know, just everything that comes with it. There's just so much appreciation, respect and beauty and the art. You know, it's just like the art form of the sport that you know. That's like I can fall asleep watch the basketball. I used to fall asleep watch the basketball. To you're you're were you one of those people that like would sleep with a basketball. Literally it seems like you have you you genuinely like really really love that love it And it sounds obvious, but there's a lot of elite athletes who they love it, but they won't like sleep with the object, or they won't you know, dive into it the way others do. Yeah, I mean, you know it's my bed or in the bed, you know what I mean. I'm not like holding it, cuddling in it. That would be a little too much for that. Uh. But no, absolutely, I still sleep with a basketball in my bed beside my bed. It's it's for me. It's like it's my instrument, it's my tools. So whether I'm now creating writing, you know, that's hardy to say. Like, if I'm writing, I'm dribbling to collect my thoughts, to collect the story to you know, write down the songs or the words or whatever it is. It's like the basketball is like my instrument, even if I don't have a ball, Like you may see me in the grocery store just oh, you know what I mean, just making a move, that's just it just allows me to have like this this this freedom, this freedom in space to like live in a world that is like completely mine, you know what I mean? And I would you know, it's like you can relate it to an artist's painting. You can relate it to a scientist cooking up something. You know. To me, that's that's art. When you like not even thinking about something and you're like it's around your energy. It's like it's like you see so many different layers to it, you know what I mean. That's so interesting, And it tells me that your relationship with basketball continues to be good. Because there are some athletes that step away from it and they don't want to have anything to do with it. They'll throw away their trophies, they'll separate from the community, they don't even bother, you know. Sometimes they'll take a little break from even watching it or engaging with it. So that kind of tells me that you you still have a really good relationship with basketball. Yeah, I mean, you know it's up and down for sure. You know, I would say overa it's like I wouldn't be here without basketball. Um. But also like basketball is the thing that broke my heart, you know what I mean, And like you know you and I think and and I feel like in order to get to a place to understand it, like you have to be heartbroken, you have to be you have to have fail success success and failures and you know, like I've been through a lot with basketball, dealing with people, dealing with teams, institutions fighting, you know what I mean, And and um, yeah, it's just like there's so much ship going on, right, It's like this is the only thing that you can actually trust, right that because it got you to a place. But along this journey, like all of the different people because of this thing, you know what I mean, this ball, like all of the different people and their collective energy, like are attached to that equally or trying to figure out a way to draw an attachment you know, to me. Right, And so like his journey right uh, hasn't has involved so many people good, bad, great, you know, amazing dreams have been carried out fulfilled wishes, hopes. I mean it's like ship, It's it's no world more can I you know, I met, I know Magic Johnson, you know Michael Jordan's I love Larry Bird. I walked I had a conversation with Larry Bird. I know Kareemo dou Jabar Kobe and said how kind of Koby was my dog? I mean, I could walk up to Steph Curry have a conversation like, yeah, come on, you know what I mean. It's like, that's like, that's it everything I dreamed of as a kid. Every NBA player I ever wanted to me every thing about basketball, like I've pretty much like pretty much lived it. And even beyond, like your basketball circles, the the Kate Hudson's of the world, your cross your crossroads experience is so fascinating to me, and that that allow you to get into circles that I would imagine coming from South central l A, you probably wouldn't have engaged with maybe maybe later on, maybe never got gone across roads, uh, because l A is probably one of the most segregated cities in America, you know, and it's also defined by the halves and the have not um and you know, having an opportunity to go to Crossroads. You know, people always say, oh, you're from South Central you went to cross I was like, how was cross I was like, it was once again, it's the journey like learning the city, you know what I mean, forty five to a hour and a half. Sometimes it would take to at to school from the middle of you know, the city, all the way to the beach and then going to a school where you see in the beach for the first time, and then every week you can go. You know what I mean, It's it's nothing. It's nothing the people over here. And so I always say, like to kind of like describe my experience. Um at Crossroads was like I was a fresh prince, but I went back to the hood, you know what I mean. There was no Uncle Phil or none of that. It was like, you know, the fresh prince from the hood. So I was going to a school to me that was like Disneyland and trying to stay there as long as possible because I knew I was safe. And then when I go back home, it wasn't that I wasn't safe, It's just my awareness had to change, you know. So I had to go and create the Disneyland for myself living in South Central because it was ship really going on live, you know what I mean, And so how do you block all that out? And where do you go? You know? And I think cross will start helping me understand people, you know, started helping me understand like there there is a history outside of the history that I'm learning. You know. It starts start having me like pay attention to detail, you know what I mean, start learning how to have conversations or listening to the conversations that people are having, like about business and life, and like you know, watching parents and their kids actually have real conversations about life and politics and like the kids had an opinion, you know what I mean. So a lot of times I was just a fly on the wall and trying to bring those skills and those things back to my neighborhood and translate that in a way that we need to be doing this too, you know what I mean. That was very difficult, but you know it's like that's how was learning m and I was learning stuff here to get an it learning. You know. It's like Crossroads was good because it just kind of opened up my world to realize that you know, there's so many people, there's so many cultures, there's so many struggles, there's so many fights, there's so much history. Two people right, and then you are allowed right to question everything. You are allowed two be whoever you want to be. And you got your saying. You got that from Crossroads. Yeah, and you can change your mind. You can change your mind again. You can change your mind again. You can change your mind again. You can keep changing your mind until you figure out what you want to do. And I think that was the beauty a crossroads because one year somebody came as you know, they wanted to be a gothic person. The next year that gothic person was like now prepster. The next year prepaster was now like a skateboarder and the hipster. Then that person graduated and went to uh, I forget what was school Stanford, and so I started learning that whoever you want you mean in the drama department. And then we're like, yeah, that ain't for me. I really like art, right, um, And it's not quitting right. It was just like I want to try something new, Whereas like I grew up in a culture where you start something and you had to finish it. You know what I mean, which and you couldn't quit. I feel like that's our culture today, especially when you talk about, like you sports, early specialization, kids declaring that they want to be an NFL player, NBA professional, fill in the blank at seven years old. And then for me growing up in an immigrant family Asian background, like there's no question, like you you, my path was all right at twelve years old, what do you want to do? Which one do you want to pick? You got to pick this, You got to dedicate the rest of however long to that. So that's so interesting that you had that experience at Crossroads. And I think that explains so much because out of all the people that I've met an interview, the only person that comes to mind might be like a Marcelis Wiley that I've talked to because he's coming from Compton, but he's a social chameleon. And when I think of you, you are such a social chameleon, Like you really really depending on what the environment it is. And I've listened to multiple interviews and like, depending whatever the context the environment, the people like you will just you'll shift and change. And I just I don't know if I've really seen that, do you notice that about yourself or and tell me if I'm like inaccurate, if I'm really is a talent, you know, to be relatable for people to feel like you're accessible. And so if you build that, like I think, you have to also use the right words. You know, well always say that man, just pay attention to like people's words. And you know, for me, it's like when I'm talking whoever it is, I'm you know, I'm trying to relate, right, and when I go home, like to practice, like I have to figure out how to talk about a kid starting eliminate Stan and then how that kid becomes Paul Newman and how that's been, you know what I mean. And so it's like I'm always trying to figure out, like like what's the narrative of the story, even in conversations that I hear. Now sometimes it's annoying. I mean just like like like that I'm always thinking about, you know, like I and I and I would say like maybe that's my practice, because practice is annoying, you know what I mean. But it's just like kind of like rehearsing, like trying to solve problems. And if people are like ideating on something trying to figure out the solution and then give it immediately right back, you know. So I would say that, like that's my practice is like a creative as a business person, you know, uh, as a networker or whatever you want to call it, you know, a connector um is, it's all based on like listening to people and like solving problems. So when I speak, it's like I'm trying to make sure that I'm not just on the panel just talking ship or like making you gas up and you're like, oh, I feel good, but like what am I gonna do? You know what I mean? Yeah, And it's a lot of people, you know, there's just a lot of people out here that are doing things for reasons that are self serving, and I just don't. I mean, I'd rather just kind of like live to serve people. Mm hmm. You talk about just your history and um, a little bit about your past, and I'm curious about you know, there's a lot of you have a lot of titles and labels, especially today now at forty three years young. So you know, godfather of Los Angeles basketball, two time NBA All Star, You're basketball analyst, filmmaker, producer, director, entrepreneur, investor. The list goes on, but I'm curious about After having listened to multiple interviews, I feel like they kind of follow a normal trajectory of like, Okay, you started basketball at this age, all central crossroads, U C l A, n b A, Boom Brita, all that stuff. What's what's the one thing that people forget or failed to ask about your path that's really important? How did I do it? I don't know that. I mean, it's just like you don't know the details, but I would I don't know what I mean. It's it's people usually ask me about basketball. It's just I would say, like how, like how did you do it? You know what I mean? Like if you could change five decisions that you made that wouldn't affect who you are today but could ultimately like make you a better person, where were those five decisions that you made? What would like where would you be? You know what I mean? Because a lot of times, like we look at people who are successful, and you know, we get an opportunity as the people that are successful to like share our story and our journey. But a lot of that should just be like hella positive, Yes, maybe it'd be super positive. You know, it's like super positive, super motivational, and like we don't talk about we don't highlight people like we're going through the worst ship, the same ship you're going through mhm, magnified, you know what I mean. And so people don't ask about like all the bad mistakes, all of bad ship I did, you know what I mean, all the like times I was an asshole, you know what I mean, like when I lost, when I was down, Like what what was that doing? When I was injured? Like what you know, It's like nobody asked about that because don't nobody want to hear that ship, you know what I mean, because people are really going through it, and so they don't a lot of time just like you don't want to can really make the connection because if you do, then it's probably some ship that you're dealing with too. It's like, you know, going to church and the preacher giving a sermon and you're like, damn did he like did somebody telling him I was coming today? Like you know, it's like it's it's that connection and figuring out, you know, how do like just make it so better because that's the whole part of the journey again, you know, So how did you do it? I'll ask you the question that that no one else has asked, giving you the opportunity to talk about those lowlights or whatever you want to fill in. UM. Always kind of like just trusted my north star. Always. UM. I try to stay sucker free. Try to say sucker free. Explain what what does that mean? Because it's a lot of bad people out here, you know what I mean, And a lot of there are a lot of people that are professional suckers, bloodsuckers, money suckers, energy suckers, just people who just they don't know how to give ship, they just know how to take. And so like I would say, you know, even a lot of times dealing with those people, right but knowing that you know they ain't getting no further than nowhere, you know what I mean, And just realizing that, you know, when I say stay sucker free, is like there's no way like your reputation, my reputation, like my reputation gonna be with my what I choose my reputation. I'm not gonna let people kind upon their reputation off on me. So I gotta get this leech off me, you know what I mean? Because that's not your blood. It's my blood, you know what I mean. It's like your blood, it's my blood. And I think people do that in business. People come around the athletes and they want to you know, oh man, like like people are so good at making you feel good and making you feel like, you know, like this is where you need to go, you know what I mean. And it's almost like you see a lot of people get hypnotized, yeah, you know. And and and for me it was like growing up in l A becoming a millionaire nineteen, you know what I mean, coming from South Central, you know, having dudes that I hoot with that were now like going to college, going to jail, you know what I mean. And it was like it was that college jail streets and so now becoming a target however you look at it right. It also forced me to like accept that that you're a target absolutely, and so because in l A you're always a target. What are your innocent my standard? You know what I mean? And so that that mentality for me was like, all right, I'm a target. I know what's coming. So I'm like listening and I'm trying to, like in real time learn what is happening. Understand what's going on and then you know, And so it was like the most important thing I would say. It was like people who were like who had something for me but didn't give me anything, you know what I mean. It's like those were the things that I was trying to like shake off and avoid because I was like really on like a this journey on my own. There was no person that I could call and be like, hey man, I'm having a hard time. Yeah, like there was there, Like I didn't have like, uh, a mom and dad in my journey, you know what I mean. My Grandma was just there and I wasn't gonna bother her. So it was like, really I was like a grown, grown, grown, grown person, you know what I mean. So it was just there was never a moment and or a person that I can think of where I can just pick up the phone and feel at ease, you know what I mean. And so with that, it was just learning how to like try and get over on somebody before they got over on me. And like when I was eighteen nineteen, and then as I started getting older, I was like, well, I don't have to allow anybody to get over on me because I don't have to be around me, you know what I mean. And if I start moving and doing what I want to do, then I won't be hypnotized by whatever the bright lights that jewel read, the fame and the fortune. I'll just like, hey, I'll be my own agent, you know what I mean. So that cut out a lot uh me and my homeboys that just managed my career. That cut out a lot, you know what i mean, new friends, new homies, and and things of that nature. And then I was like, you know what, I'm gonna take this agent money and I'm gonna try things. And so that gave me kind of like my opportunity to build a case study for myself by you know what I mean, building a business around the things that I always wanted to do. And so I would say, now, you know, towards the middle the third chapter of my career, there's a lot of things that I can do or know how to do going on because I was I was twenty years old. I was my own agent. That's unbelievable. So how you did it, I'm gonna try really hard to summarize it. You you clearly did it on your own self. Made for the most part, it sounds like of your childhood other outside of your grandmother, you really you didn't have this support system in a sense of like that person that you could call. You were guided by your north star and then once you were up and running, you you eliminated and cut out the fat and kept your circle really tight. So I know that you were raised by your grandmother. But so and what about your mother and father. I don't know too much about that background. Yeah, they just had hard times when I was growing up. Um, my mom, my dad rest and PC he passed away. Uh. I think when I was like one, like the day before we played the Lakers, the first time I was inviting them to an NBA game. He literally died the day the day of the game, when we were flying in from Utah. But like you know, he grew up rough South Central on some hard times. You know him, and you know him and my mom but mama the same, and so you know they felt pright to all the negative things you know, uh, in l A and in the streets, and so it was hard to have it was. There was nothing good coming out of none of that. Um. But I would say the beauty of it all, um, is that like me and my mom was so tight. Now she's sober, she's straight, and like we've been rocking and like, you know, just being best friends for the last you know, the last ten twelve years, you know what I mean, and is and like really just knowing each other and like knowing getting to know her, you know what I mean. Because I felt like we missed a lot of time just kind of like trying to get it together. Yeah, but that was you know that for me, It was like if I did not become my own agent and do ship my way, then I would have not not spent the time, you know what I mean. It was like it was spending the time to like be like fuck fame, I gotta make sure like this ship is right, you know what I mean, fun Tabo and going to Bali and I wanted to do that ship, but I have to go make sure, like my mom was shucked, you know what I mean. And so once I got to the NBA and I realized, like I can do what I want. The money was a resource to do what I want. I wanted to use that to like trying to solve problems or fix things. So how you do it is you really take chances like you're really you're really um, your calculated, and you think about it, but you don't really mess around. Because there's not a lot of people that after not having the relationship maybe that they would have wanted with their parents, take the time to work on that relationship and heal. You know. I have a few friends, a lot of friends that has that dynamic, and a lot of them don't want it. I don't even want to touch it. Yeah, it's it's it's touchy. It's touchy because you know there there there, there's a kid there not the adult version of you can't you know, like you like you don't know if this kid is gonna ever forgive you. Yeah, you know what I mean. And so like you know, like as an adult, when you think about that kid and think about what that kid was going through, you know, for me, it took me I believe it was Father's Day to go to my dad and like bring him flowers and saying happy Father's to Day, and you know, and kind of like my humor and candor and just also my confidence. I was like, I'm the daddy now, motherfucker, I'm the daddy now. Well, you're the executive producer. I mean, that's what I said. I'm like, I'm daddy now like I got you know, like I got you, you know what I'm saying, Like I'm a man and like now it's like I'm going to NBA games and I'm saying dudes with their daddy's in the stands like real relationships like me the practice and ship and I'm like, man, like fuck it, Like if you weren't how you were, I wouldn't have been who I was. So I actually came to thank you because if you were in my life, especially how you are, you're probably sucked my ship out. Bro. And he started laughing and we started laughing, and I realized. And I was like two years old. I realized, like and it took everything in my power to go see this man. You know what I'm saying. It took I was scared. I was nervous. I was like, you know, so what got you there to that my daddy? You know what I mean. It wasn't like he was never around. It was just like I didn't funk with him, you know what I mean. And you know, I think my sister was telling him that he was sick. I should go see him and ship, like that, and it was just like I it just took a lot. It took a lot. It took a lot to like make it just to get out, you know that. Like first of all, I don't even remember, but I like where then did I buy them flowers from? You know what I mean? It was just like it was all kind of like this like numb moment, but it's something behind you pushing you. Like like when you do this, like you're gonna be a man, you know what I mean. Like like when you do this, like it ain't gonna even be there is no conversation to have about what happened. You feel me, It's like, all right, darn, let's go. Uh we're good, you know what I'm saying. And like that was kind of like a lot of times we have successful people that come from fuck up places or you know, situations we don't want to like we live in it, we don't want to address it, but like it's okay, we can move. Like he had me, I wouldn't be here if it wasn't for him. I wouldn't be in the NBA if it wasn't for him. Right now, if you're bad, if you didn't parent, you know, the way that we saw that ship in books or the way I saw in school. It's okay, bro, because I am who I am and I got you, you know what I mean? So now you can tell me, like what the fund is? Like this lump in the back of my neck? Do you have one? Do you have like this? Like are you are? Is one toe longer than like you know what I mean? Like tell me what the funking like do you have these things? Like I need to know, you know what I mean? And a lot of times we gotta go a funk with our parents no matter what, because explain to make us better parents. Yeah, m hm, you know what I mean, because we have to know. Yeah, who are you going through? You were thirty five when you were forty years old? Like what was you saying in life? You know what I mean? Like good are bad? It's the information is like that's where you come from. And so you know, for me, it's like just understanding their respecting that and not having the parents didn't mean that I didn't like have parents around, you know what I mean? And so you're like going and find that village. My grandmother was like the most solid person in the world, you know what I mean she was the most solid part person in the world, like there was everybody loved her. You know what I mean is she stayed solid and she gave love, you know what I mean. And so like that was enough for me to know I had one person, you know what I'm saying, and everybody else like chipped in and loved how they love. But you know, sometimes you just you gotta go find a family. Yeah, I think that makes so much more sense because when I come here to your studio, which is such an interesting, cool space and it's pretty big. I don't know, it's like five thousand and six thou square, I don't even know whatever it is. But the thing that struck me as I got to meet your team finally in person, I was like, that's so interesting. He's like really created this family, the sense of community, and it seems like you're somebody that really has your your hands on every single person and every single project and now and now I think that loyalty and really connecting with people who are authentic, the sucker free mentality, like that makes so much more sense. Yeah, it's like, like you said, cut through the fat. You recognize talent, you recognize good people, people want outlets, people want voices, you know, and like ship, I do too, right, and I want to identify dope talent, dope creators, people who can you know, champion thought and champion what the they're passionate about. And that's why, you know, that's why Bill Slick was like, you look at social media, you look at YouTube, you look at all these medium and media medium platforms, and it's like you have to shift through all the bullshit just to find good people or a good conversation or a good group of you know, content or a good like It's so like all over the place that was Slick. It was just like, man, if we could tag a person and that person tags a person, that person tags a person, then you got all you know, solidified, authentic, validated people in an ecosystem. And you know, it's like we are we all kind of like the same ship because we're all a part of the culture. Now. If we can start tagging and nominating and upgrading and up in people, you know what I mean, and give them a platform where they can create and collaborate and co create and get their get their shipped out and have distribution, then I like, I like our chances because it's ultimately like I just want to see all that ship in space, you know what I mean. Marshall Marshall, Jason's whole show, a glasses show, uh fuzzy show, like all of the all the parts Jason Maine Show, all all of the podcasts, and and all the ship that we're building and bringing in is really just a family label ecosystem, really a ship. We all work together, we all help each other, and at the end of the day, like you know, high tides rise all ships. Yeah, and it don't matter who is who gets the Emmy, it doesn't matter who gets the Webby, it doesn't matter who gets the big major deal. It's like we're gonna celebrate winds and as long as we continue to celebrate wins, will be in the winning system, winning culture, and practice will be practice and gangs. Game time is gang time, and all you want to do really is just be on the team and play. So you're you're really acting as that bridge. I forgot what interview I was listening to me. It was like all the Smoke or some one of those interviews. It was really good. They did a really good job. But you talk about being that bridge and I think at the time you were talking about maybe bridging the gap between South Central and Crossroads and those two communities. But I think over time it seems like you're really that connector of bridging the gap between all these different communities. So going back to raised by your grandmother, knowing a little bit more about your mom and dad, So you talked about that north star. What was that north star? What was the what was the thing that was leading you in terms of how you did it? Was it basketball or was it just like a general philosophy. Well, it was basketball for sure. And then it's curiosity, m And it's wanting to do ship. I want to actually be able to do stuff like I'll probably never learned to play the piano, or I may learn to play the piano, you know what I mean, Like that challenge myself. It's the curiosity. I think the north star is like the curiosity. Basketball was like the vehicle. Hm. Right. So once I got once basketball started becoming like the thing that kept me going straight narrow, right, then I was like trying to just catch that north star. When I got to the NBA, I realized that basketball was a business, you know what I mean? And basketball was like I had so much ship involved in it, you know what I mean. Then my north star, the star started getting further their way, and I started seeing like the responsibility in the basketball right, uh, that I had right where I was in time, and what I wanted to do and what everybody around, all the athletes around me wanted to do, but we didn't have access. And so I said, you know, I'm gonna go do this, oh ship Like, Okay, I don't want to do that anymore. I'm gonna go do this because so and so said, like that's what he wants to do. And so I started doing things right, are trying to do things that our crew are ecosystem of like NBA dudes and ship like that, Like nobody was busting out the same are like trying to poke holes right and that in that bubble that they was trying to put us in. And so I was just listening and like Poka homes. So does that mean that your transition from basketball was a little bit easier or was it still went out really? Oh? No, it was the worst. Was that the was that the hardest part. Was that the hardest time of my life. I mean, I would say, you know, like you have some hard times in life, and I think eats moment in situation especially unique that was like the hardest time in my life and speaking about basketball and then like my love and all that ship. After I got hurt, I was like, um, okay, I'm probably I can't play basketball ever again. So I'm gonna give myself amnesia. Wow, So I'm going to think that I never played basketball, and I'm gonna treat myself that I didn't play basketball. So that goes along with the athletes that I've talked to where they just completely want to erase and forget that side of it. So you went through that phase like a big So I went through that big time, and I was like an asshole to a lot of my things. I apologize that people would be like looking at me and I'd be like, what the funk are you looking at and I'm like, arn'tie Baron Davis, I'm like nope, And it was like not even thinking about like but I was trying like if somebody came up to be like, oh you belt basketball, bro cool, I could want to talk about it. Didn't want to do it, you know what I mean, But like it was just like something that I felt like I needed to do in order to distance myself from the fact that like this was like they you know, I was on the castaway boat, you know, getting further and further away from the shore. So I was like, all right, well, I'm a fisherman now, you know what I mean, I've never been to that island. And then I just started like because you're like a shame, you embarrassed, you know, you know, like you're seeing like your homeboys who are two or three years younger and they still rocking, and it's like, damn dude, like like where am I? Where do I fit in? And like where do I you know, it's like who am I? Who do I want to be? And like the last thing you want to do is go around that because you get fucking excited, your body feel good, you know what I mean. You want to play again. You want to be a part of it, and it's like they're there's no room for you, you know what I mean. And you know, uh, but I think now it's like it's a great time to be a basketball player, retired basketball player. There's so many opportunities to like still do what you do, and fans are still you know, uh, supportive of like, you know, just the game. I think basketball has done it like to me. At once, I like kind of got that out my system. I realized it was a documentary that I was going to do, and it was there's a men's basketball league and like an n c A tournament and it's called the Masters of Basketball or something like that, and I believe it's like fifty five and up and there's a tournament in these dudes they in there like I'll show you the trailer. I shout a trailer. I'll show you the trailer. But it was when I did it, I didn't really really realized like how that was going to impact me. And there was a guy who was they were like, how do you was like, I'm eighty six and then and he was like, yeah, I think I'm gonna play about another two or three years and I'm gonna hang it up. And I was like, one of my ding yes you know what I mean, yes, my time, wait, hold on, start the clock if they getting down like that, and it was just like it was the most likesing. This is like maybe six or seven, maybe eight years ago. Now it's been a while, uh like fourteen, So then you had your you had your massive knee injury. Yea, So then it must have been within the two years. Within it was because I remember I spoke at the NBA Tech Summit, met this young lady who was like programming, uh, and I think at the time she worked for Amazon, and she was like, yo, my dad loves basketball. You have to like And I was just like all right, cool, Like I was in the camera crew, like I want to make I want to make content. Uh. But it was just a it was a great plug. We didn't wind up doing anything we should though, but the five minute trailer that was shot was like it immediately changed my life. I realized, like, dude, I'm about to be hooping at fifties, sixty years in the gym, talking ship to my home boys. Right. And then I started going back to the gym and like you know, working out and getting back into gym playing. And it was like, man, if I never play in the NBA again, Like, who knows, I go playing the G League. Got a chance of playing the G League whenn't playing the Big Three, which was you know what I mean, But um, there's a league somewhere, you know where I think is going to come out of this retirement situation and like allow for like, uh, something extremely complimentary to the n b A because basketball is just taken off right, and I think that you know, the NBA does it the best um G League is is obviously cut from the NBA's claw um but nobody else, Like, you know, I like TBT and things like that, but it's like there's so many You've got TBT, you got the jew League, You've got all these great places. That's just like giving people an opportunity, even the big thing, giving people the opportunity to play. And it's like but they're still like something that's gonna come about where it's going to create a whole another you know, capture a whole another audience and ecosystem of people who just love the game. So that moment of seeing a did you say was like eighty six or so, seeing that eighties six year old man continue to have a relationship with basketball sparked your interest and like I can re engage with basketball maybe in a different way. So it sounds like that might have led to maybe your your return or come back. Before we go there and we kind of talk about like how did you do it, you know, are the conversation oftentime is focused on how we overcame in the resiliency. So I'm gonna I'm gonna put the microscope on that moment, that period that was like really difficult because I think it's important for not only not only fans but also athletes really understand, right, because that's the concept of this show, is like really putting a microscope on that part. So, and I find it interesting that you were you felt shame because I think to two fans they would say, I mean, this guy played for over ten years, two time NBA All Star, like you know, did all these things, you know, achieved such great heights. And it's not like you were pushed out. You suffered a serious injury, you tore your MC l l C LP everything, knee cap, all that other stuff. So like I think most people will be like, you went out yeah, like a soldier. Yeah, I mean yeah, I mean I respect all that, I appreciate all that, but it's like I did not go out on my own terms. So that's what it boils down to. You wanted to go out on your own Actually I wanted you know what I always envisioned as I started getting older, I was like, who is the young dude that's going to retire me? You know what I mean? Like I wanted like I wanted to like wake up, go to the game and be like, damn dude, Steph Curry just murdered me the next day that instead of yeah, that's how I got go, That's how I got to go because I won, I would have enjoyed it, appreciated it, and then like you know what I mean, it's like it probably could have been something in that exchange that I could have gave them to, you know what I mean. So I kind of like missed out on like this whole generation and like PGS that you know, we would have either been on battle to back up, you know what I mean. It's just like I missed like that part, you know what I'm saying. And even playing in that era, it was just kind of like damn dude, Like this is the era that was meant for me, you know what I mean. That's why I tried it with the G League. I thought I had a chance. I had a good chance with the G League. I got injured again and then now I'll just be hooping. But you know it's just it's fun. Like now basketball is fun because they hoop now and the way they play is like all you gotta do is be in shape and like have skills. So it's you know, it's like, all right, I get to make a little money in the summer, you know, from some one on ones and making money on one on what? What are you going to the park and like hustling people? What do you do? We have to pick up? You know, there's always a sucker. There's there's always a fool who want to play some one on one for some money? Who is doing that with you? Man? Young dudes? Young NBA deals with a lot of money. There's a new contract that should be a show and then self right, come down, Yeah, trying to hustle b d on the court like me, hustling NBA dudes and dudes from overseas when they get they checked. That's great man, you want to play one on one like we started playing like manna play like I don't play for like five thousand. That's hilarious because I just saw on social media about Doohan putting a bet with Kobe that he wouldn't score like a triple double. And I forgot whatever whatever game it was right, and he obviously lost a bet because anything so was that the period that was you were you were mad, you were trying to figure your way through just kind of lost. It was lost more loss. So what it lost feel like and look like? And how did you find yourself? It didn't feel like nothing, It didn't look like nothing. It was just like, you know, I couldn't walk really because of my knee, and so like I was bit in the bed for like three months, my legs straight like this, so then west of my leg was out the cast. Like I had to work like trying to learn how to beat my ship. So first it was like, all right, I need to learn how to walk in you know what I mean, or like I need to figure out how to bid my knee, you know. And and I was like yeah, like all I want to do is to be able to walk standing up. And then one day I was like, damn, dude, I'm walking like what the fuck? And I was like, well, maybe I need to like if I could walk faster, you know what I mean, and be able to have been and like do a squat, like that's all I want because then at least I can like bog you know, shoot a free fell. I don't want to be a cripple. And next you know, I'm walking and I'm jogging and I'm running and I'm like, dude, what if I want to play basketball? And so I want to play basketball my drunk homies and ship because they all fat and slow, and I was like, you know, moving like this because I was injured. So I was like I could keep up. You know, I can keep up with these pos. Gonna get tired, um. And then I was like, oh, that was cool, and we hung out and it was just like it wasn't the NBA, but it it reminded me of like what basketball gave you, that love, that camaraderie, and then like every step of the way, it was just I was just asking myself to accomplish something small mm hmm. And then even in my life, I was like, man, I was in such a fog. I was like that part was like super chaotic and when was that? Because that's why my grandpa grandma had died, you know. And then I hurt my name and you know what I mean. And so it was like that was the time when you had your kids right because you had then I had my kid, and so between that, it was just trying to figure out like who I wanted to be, what I wanted to be, like how I wanted to be it, and like you know, it's like when I got hurt, I looked up and I'm like, yeah, I got all this money, i got nothing to live for, like no way to call and to share with things like that. And then you know, uh, got married, I had a kid and realized that you know, like damn dude, like I get a chance to be like an amazing father, you know what I mean. And so like I think, my kids, you know, have really been like my reason for like going through the impressing anxiety to hit rock bottom the rabbit hole that like you know, and like I start realizing that I could. And then Batman is my favorite movie, Dark Knight, you know what I mean. So I'm you know, it's almost like the Batman sequent uh scene when he goes all the way to the pit and he has to figure out how to get out. And a lot of times we do that to ourselves. We dig deeper and deeper and deeper and deeper, and you know what I mean, we always say how we keep digging, digging deeper, deeper and deeper hose. But it's not a deep hole. It's just a whole bunch of like bullshit in a little shallow pods. You can, you gotta, you know what I mean, just step the funk out and say, you know what, I don't have to hold myself accountable for rabbit holing. I can apologize to myself. I can forgive myself. I can go ask for forgiveness. I can start go, start mending, mending, you know what I mean, and patching up the things that I was ashamed of, I was embarrassed of, you know what I mean, Um, and whatever comes with that comes with it. But it's also a part of like who I am and who I'm going to be and why I need to like something. I hear the description about the idea that this so called rabbit hole was a lot shallower then you thought. However, in a lot of the research that I'm doing in doctoral training and all this stuff, it's crazy to look at some of the literature. I'm coming out from a academic perspective, but just to see how athletic retirement they're finding. And so I think, especially in today's modern day sports landscape, that retirement can be a traumatic experience that also leads to and precipitates mental health issues and disorders. So it's not You're definitely not the first case in the research that I'm doing. It's like, yeah, like here's another case of like retirement and then it happens to lead to substance abuse or depression, anxiety, or interpersonal issues or question identity loss like you fill in the blank all of these things, you know, a loss and identity and structure and support and all these things. You just kind of go through that list. So I say that not necessarily to like counter what you're explaining, but to validate your experience and in the sense of like when you went through you're certainly not the only one. And it's and it's hard, especially when you talked about like your north star and all these people that were connected with this one thing basketball, it kind of makes sense like when when that exits your life, like it's just kind of like, well, God, what else is? What else is out there? Who am I? But that wasn't the north Star And that's what we have to realize. That's the star that other people paying for us. And then to also to add to mental health in retirement, right, how about mental health when you get the fucking money. Yeah, absolutely you can't. You know what I mean. It's like, oh, motherfucker's retired. Excuse my, look, we were retired. They got mental health issues and like you know, compessions and all this. Ship. It's like, no, the journey the start before. You can't diagnose somebody after they already been fucked up. They've been fucked up for forty forty years. Now they're gonna retire, and it's like you have to deal with real life ship. There is no escape people who play sports or have high i q s, or music and art and film. The reason why people make mistakes or like say, oh, because they already had it and that that was their escape. That is where the they found a sucker or a sucker found them and figured out how to take that and hide that and get them into the them so you know what I mean, So they can get what they needed. They can get what they needed out, you know what I mean. And the problem is it goes back to the beginning, you know what I mean. Because everything is manufactured and on an assembly line, right that nobody has the time to pay attention to if somebody is mentally fucked up and dudes are or need the help, because like, you know, I look at myself like, damn, dude, I haven't been through a whole bunch of ship and like like movie type ship. And then I look at my teammates and I'm like, damn, dude, they're going through a lot too, But like they ain't me, you know what I mean, Like they don't they don't have like then they don't they don't see themselves after, you know what I mean, Like the people that they have around them are like like you know, like we all look into each other and crying for help, you know what I'm saying, Because like it's like, yeah, bro, I got like like, damn, don't you like thirty leeches? And he was like yeah, we're like four leeches, and like, you know, if we can all like we all need need the help sol egg. And at the same time, we we we we have to be so confident, we have to be so sure of ourselves. We have to be so without want, without need, right, we have to be indestructible, you know what I mean. Um, And then at the same time, like we have to also be vulnerable, you know what I mean. We have to be people's scapegoat, people sounding board. You know, it's like a lot, a lot, a lot a lot of giving and giving and giving and nobody's feeling. They're feeling the athlete facade, basketball feeling. What the stereotypes, the trands, the styles they want you to like, they want to frame your background. Everybody want to put their collage pictures on your yearbook page and ship. That's what it is. It's like you know, but you but at the same time, it's like you don't know who these people are your you know what I mean on your yearbook page, or you don't know that party, or you didn't even know that you did like to drink right, you didn't know that you did like the gamble? You know that you did? You know. It's like there's so much if there's a lot of the night negative or people like, hey man, you better than him? Or da da da da, and it's like building animosity and jealousy for your teammates. It's all that's it's just all of it. And it's like if we can hold on, if we if our generation can hold on to each other and check out follow leeches, you know what I mean. And you know you see what like from Alan Iverson, they're like, well Lebron is doing Steph Curry with you know, golf and j R. Smith with golf women's sports. It's just like our our ecosystem, and I say, our generation are are like the barrier breakers, Like we're breaking glass ceilings, We're breaking were punching holes in the bubbles. Because people realize that we need each other, you know, and so there's been more collaboration, more together and it's more like champion and people speaking out you know, uh to do that. I love the collaboration aspect. I feel like the pandemic kind of push that forward and I love that aspect. And then you can mentioned this like a few minutes ago, but when you were talking about the ment, health and the journey during your career and you're talking about the money and the fame, and I did. I actually did my research apprenticeship on the transitional and lived experiences of African American former professional and football players. And so one thing that I when I was looking at like I had like eleven participants when I was like going through all these interviews and just like going through the data. There's something about the professional journey that it's like the money, fame, pressure, expectation. I mean, it just it really causes and creates so many issues and it's a hard thing to navigate and an experience that not a lot of people can relate to because I think from from the outsiders where they're like, okay, money, you got money solved, fame good, you get everything you need. But it reminds me of a story where Josh Childres's former NBA Stanford player, signs the biggest contract in European basketball history. He goes over there and there's just all this money and all this height. He's in Greece, and you know, during our interview he admits he's like I turned into recluse, like I couldn't, I couldn't and it and it seemed to kind of trigger his social anxiety. So he goes on the court. You know, he now he's like air balling from the free throw line all this other stuff. So it's more just kind of shutting light on, you know, just how hard the dark side, the business side a professional sports. Yeah. I always say, like, you know, you have a kid and there around nothing A million dollars and no instructions. You know, there's no instructions. There are no instructions, literally no instructions. There's no template, there's no calls send there, there's no crisis hot line for I just got a million dollars. What do I do? You know what I mean? It's like ship, he got a million dollars, and it's a whole crowd of people running over there, you know what I mean? Anyway, proposals, pictures and what some people want to I never touched a millionaire. I never took a picture. Some people like you got a million, I know in ten thousand, ain't nothing to him? Or somebody be like, man, at least a hundred thousand, Like you know what I mean, It's like, man, that's cold bloody. You get a million dollars with no instructions. Like imagine, imagine if you were not who you were, and I imagine you were in college and you're doing all this research and I'm like, you know a prom, I love this mental health research paper. Here's a million dollars, it's yours. I would do nothing responsible with it. But what the first thing you're gonna do is nothing responsible. You're gonna go and go. You're gonna go, We're gonna celebrate. And it's like, damn, Okay, what do I want? What? What did I always want? All right? I wanted this car. Okay, I'm gonna give me some shoes. You gotta go get your fit and all that ship. Right. Then it's like, man, I'm gonna take my best friend. And then you're spending all this money on yourself. You're like, then I can't keep leaving my best friend out. Let me get them fresh, you know what I mean. And it's like, oh, we're going out. It's like you don't want your homegirls dirty and dusty. You know what I'm saying. You can't go up and then they go down, you know what? Hey, so you gotta get them right. So that first day, you know, that first day, that first day, you're balling, you know what I mean, You balling and that ship feel good. You know, it's like, damn, I did something. Now you got this brand new car. You just burning rubber around all around the city, you know what, Like you wasting gas? Yeah, you forgot to buy a place. You're like, oh, shoot, I gotta go get some get a place to stay. Then it's like I got no furniture. You gotta go get furniture, you know what I mean. And it's like you're just doing ship. You're just doing it because it's like, oh, this is what I'm supposed to do. Now here's the problem. I gave you the million. Now somebody know you. I gave you the million. Now they're gonna say, hey, this is what you need to do. You got four people like that, and you're gonna have to figure out who are you gonna listen to. The financial person is telling you, if they're smart, to put this in in the bank and don't do nothing. Man, I don't want to hear that ship get out of here. Your parents are friends, are confidant that may be saying, hey, if you need help, I know some people that can help you that that may not have a million dollars, but it can help you. Then you're gonna talk to the millionaire and it's gonna say, don't spend your mone don't give nobody ship, don't buy nobody ship because it ain't a lot of money, you know what I mean. And then you're gonna meet the person and it could be the friend, the best friend, auntie, the mom, and the cousin whomever it is that's gonna say, Yo, you know, you know what you gotta do, look at your shoes. You gotta go get yourself right. And they're just gonna be there. They just make sure you spend in because some got some some fruit gonna fall off that tree if they keep you, hm and in space. So that million dollars, you know what I mean? That money is like that money can can move, but not that money can move and move you and move people, and people can move you, and so it's like almost like a rub excute and then like that's your money. Now you have to go out with all this ship that's happening over here and the attention to your money, and then go try to perform and then people say, well you're worth it's not worth it, and this and that, and then that's where that anxiety exists as well as this anxiety, you know what I'm saying. And it's like, you know, the athlete is sitting in the middle and all the time is saying like all I need is this, All I need is this, Like you're trying to figure out what you need so you can just be better and perform well and be great for the people that are giving you the most anxiety, and everybody need needs something from you and want something from you as team, organizations of fans, league culture, family, friends, cousins, people coming out of the woodwork now knowing who you are. You your money is out there, your contract, your sixty million dollars anything, you are paying for everything. So that's why athletes talk about how isolating it it feels. It probably feels like you're just on this yeah island. And that's why you see like a lot of athletes like they China has become their best friends because it's like, man, I'm paying it, I'm getting results, like you know what I mean, and it's like maybe easier to just hey, my trainer to be around and like I don't have to deal with somebody who's not giving me something that I can't benefit. So spitting it forward from basketball, what's the b D manual? How what's if you could create a manual? Initial stages obviously, because there's gonna be a lot of iterations of this newest pages to start, I would say to bed manual um Purpose over profit MHM. Always make sure that your purpose is far exists past your profit, because that means you're doing something you love and they can't. There's no amount they can pay you whatever, You're still gonna do it. So and then also purpose over profit means when you do get money, right, that the money you get should fulfill your You should be getting that because you're fulfilling your purpose, and your purpose is going to have a much bigger impact. Number two is curiosity, Be curious, listen um, because curiosity is how you evolve. Listening it's free, you know what I mean, You just do podcast, great show, podcast, self help listen. Listening is free um. And so your curiosity and listening should translate into three is trying things and knowing that failure leads to success m And that's how it takes chances. Having space for failure and mistakes always you leave enough. You'd be so nimble that you always leave room for mistakes or failure because you may you may fail doing something and it may click and that that is what you need to grow it. So you don't, you know, start growing your success, you know, just based off your sex six us you have to grow. You have to grow or solves prove success based off failure. M. So after kind of touching on all these different chapters and hopefully in a different way that you haven't really tackled before. How did you do it? And I'm curious, I'm gonna ask you that therapy therapy. You need therapy, You need a team, You need friends, you need business people, you need mentors. You know, it's like you need the same ship you needed as a kid, and you need to go find that kid in yourself and and look at that kid and don't be ashamed of the negative ship that that kid was going through, but look out how smart that fucking kid was to navigate right to get you here, Because if it wasn't for that kid, right and the beauty, the innocence, the intelligence, you know what I mean, the hunger, the drink, like just the drive and that like, go find that kid and then start seeing like who are the people who helped impact that kid? And then you deserve to do that for yourself as an adult. Have you been in therapy for a while, Like are you in and out? Everybody needs the therapist? Will you get a million dollars and you come from any good or broken situation and you're and you're a professional athlete, go invest yourself in a fucking therapist, because at least you've got somebody that you can talk to, that can trust you, that you can trust, and if you're lying to them, you're fucking retarded, you know what I mean. I'm sorry I said that you're lying to them. It's just the dumbest thing that you can do, and it's like you're lying to yourself. So it just gives you the opportunity to be honest, to hear yourself, to work through situations, to unravel that really excuse and like Bill Clarity, Yeah, how long have you been in therapy? All my life? All your life since? But how long? Like literally, no, I'm just saying my life is therapy for ten years. But when you when you talk from my therapist, she told me I graduated. I was mad at ship. She terminated with you. She's like, you're good, and you're good, you're graduating. I was like, hey, no, we're going need somebody knows. Don't send me back on this world. I think I'm so glad my therapist didn't do that. For those I don't know, Yeah, some of them had the orientation of like, once you achieve a certain amount of progress, they will have to cut ties. Because it's like you've done, We've achieved what we needed to achieve. We can't go further. Unfortunately, my therapist hasn't done that with me yet, Like I don't go. I know I'm about to go do some more ships. She'd chaken me back. But what you were saying about, like go back and find and listen to that little kid in you sounded like some yes, because that's what it that's that's an experience that the therapist was always do. Like what is prim the five year old prim want? And any anytime they ask you that what is the five year old baron want? You always know they know what still start crying, But then you'll get to the answer of what your north star of what what you really need? Is that fascinating that like the five year old, you will always know what's better for you. And then like when you put yourself like like your child self knows what the best thing you need for yourself as an adult. So as we're kind of like wrapping this up, what does the little baron need for himself today in two thousand two? Uh? Security, Um, just comfortable, comfortable, you know what I mean? Safe and safe and uh my kids, my kids, and then just like opportunity to just get out and do whatever. Well, I just I would say more so like just an appreciation of like waking up every day. M hmm. It's very simple, needs, very simple, but very valuable. And what do you want people to know about you? Because people a lot of people know a lot of things about you, but they may not know you as a human being, in a person as you stand today. What would you like people to know about you? I don't give a shit about what they about really, I mean, I don't. I mean, this is a bad joke. What do I want people to know about me? I don't know. I don't know. I like, I don't know. I that is like it's hard for me to answer questions like that because I don't really like you're gonna know what you know? Like I don't care to like, like, I don't have anything too broadcasts or promote, you know what I mean? I just just here to share, share my journey. Sure, what I've learned, what I'm curious about, and I want to know. Um that's it, Like, you know, people can get to know me if they want. Uh, you know, I'm very creative. Maybe that's what people I got an album coming out or I guess, yeah, I created a character because I did not want like a star, like making beats and wrapping when I got divorced and ship and so I like created a character and a whole like voice and sound for this character. And like, you know, like that's I'm like really creative. I guess that's all I want people to know. It's like like I love like creating stories, TV shows, music things like that. Yeah, that's you know, that's what. It's a great answer, you know, and you are creative, and I I appreciate um your creativity here at slick and all the things that you're doing. And also I just want to spress my gratitude for your partnership and reporting these concepts, many of which are led by minorities and people from members from historically marginalized communities, and my show as well. Uh, it really means a lot. And I hope this conversation sheds light on on your journey and really like how you did it, because how you did is like pretty amazing. It really is. App Thank you so much for coming on. I loved what bad said about purpose over profit and it resonates even with me. Today as I continue to make this career transition from sports broadcasting and media into the field of psychology, because it's just a good and simple reminder that we should never be driven by the outcome or end result, whether it be winning or money, or fame or any sort of external validation. We should always be guided by our purpose in life because that's going to give us the bigger picture perspective. We need remain motivated to keep on our head on straight and to stick to our path no matter how hard it gets. Really hope you enjoyed today's conversation. For more episodes you know the drill, just visit our show page on I Heart Radio or wherever you get your podcasts, and to watch the full version of these interviews, you can head on over to YouTube. Just search for the next chapter with prims rip a Path. Subscribe to us like us give us a star rating. We really appreciate you showing your support. You can also follow me on Twitter and Instagram at prim underscore s ripa Pad The next chapter with the prims ripa Pad is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts, b