Doctor Haleley purlis welcome to the podcast.

Doctor Haleley purlis welcome to the podcast.

Hi, thanks for having me, Thanks.

Hi, thanks for having me, Thanks.

For having me again.

For having me again.

You should say I would say welcome back to the podcast, but our listeners have not experienced you before, even though I have.

You should say I would say welcome back to the podcast, but our listeners have not experienced you before, even though I have.

Interviewed you last week. And I gotta fess up that the tech.

Interviewed you last week. And I gotta fess up that the tech.

Just had a little grenlin in it after seventeen minutes. It's just there was no me and just you talking to yourself.

Just had a little grenlin in it after seventeen minutes. It's just there was no me and just you talking to yourself.

That happens all the time, and I'm just talking to myself. But we got a dry run, we got we got simulation training.

That happens all the time, and I'm just talking to myself. But we got a dry run, we got we got simulation training.

We did.

We did.

We did get simulation training, which is very important in peak performance, isn't it. And that's a little nice segue. So you are a sports psychologists. Tell us first of all, what brought you into that field?

We did get simulation training, which is very important in peak performance, isn't it. And that's a little nice segue. So you are a sports psychologists. Tell us first of all, what brought you into that field?

A great story, if I can say so myself. I'm so lucky. I grew up as a ski racer, and a pretty good one. And when I was I peaked at twelve, so I should say I was a pretty good one at twelve.

A great story, if I can say so myself. I'm so lucky. I grew up as a ski racer, and a pretty good one. And when I was I peaked at twelve, so I should say I was a pretty good one at twelve.

Peaked at twelve.

Peaked at twelve.

But I was twelve years old and I was competing in the World championship for my age group, and my coach, oh wow, and my coach, right before I was about to compete, pulls out one hundred I'm Canadian. So he pulled out one hundred Canadian dollar bill, placed it in front of my face and told me that he had bet on me to win this Junior Junior Junior World championship.

But I was twelve years old and I was competing in the World championship for my age group, and my coach, oh wow, and my coach, right before I was about to compete, pulls out one hundred I'm Canadian. So he pulled out one hundred Canadian dollar bill, placed it in front of my face and told me that he had bet on me to win this Junior Junior Junior World championship.

Wow.

Wow.

That's an interesting technique.

That's an interesting technique.

I don't recommend it, but it.

I don't recommend it, but it.

Worked really that Wow? So what was the motivation behind that?

Worked really that Wow? So what was the motivation behind that?

Well, it can go two ways. Right on one hand, yeah, handed can go to anger, frustration, worry, fear. How could a coach bet on me and tell me? What if he's wrong? What if I make a mistake and let him down? Flip side? Are you kidding me? Can you trust me? You believe in me? That's and I remember thinking, Wow, if my coach has high expectations, doesn't that mean I'm doing something right? And I went down and I did win. This is funny. My coach came down, congratulated me, kept all the money for himself, but he said something to me that carved out my life. He said, it's amazing what your performance can be like when you get your head straight. Two weeks later, he brought a sports psychologist to come and speak to my team and click click. I went home and I told my parents at twelve that I wanted to be a sports psy gal when I grew up.

Well, it can go two ways. Right on one hand, yeah, handed can go to anger, frustration, worry, fear. How could a coach bet on me and tell me? What if he's wrong? What if I make a mistake and let him down? Flip side? Are you kidding me? Can you trust me? You believe in me? That's and I remember thinking, Wow, if my coach has high expectations, doesn't that mean I'm doing something right? And I went down and I did win. This is funny. My coach came down, congratulated me, kept all the money for himself, but he said something to me that carved out my life. He said, it's amazing what your performance can be like when you get your head straight. Two weeks later, he brought a sports psychologist to come and speak to my team and click click. I went home and I told my parents at twelve that I wanted to be a sports psy gal when I grew up.

Oh wow, I wonder how many people have a story of what they wanted to be when they were twelve that they went on to actually do.

Oh wow, I wonder how many people have a story of what they wanted to be when they were twelve that they went on to actually do.

That's really interesting.

That's really interesting.

How did you so interesting at twelve years old being at the World Championships. What was the pressure like for you then? Did you feel the pressure or were you just like this twelve year old going this is really exciting and didn't really process the wit of what you were doing.

How did you so interesting at twelve years old being at the World Championships. What was the pressure like for you then? Did you feel the pressure or were you just like this twelve year old going this is really exciting and didn't really process the wit of what you were doing.

Well. And remember it was the World Championships for my age group, right, so it was this big event I was, you know, I was chosen as Team Canada. There was a lot of excitement, But I don't think. I don't think I had like pressure other than the fact that I was chosen. I'm good enough to be here and to wear the Team Canada jacket, and I think I embraced it. I have great parents, great parents, and I have even though you put a pressure on me. He also I believed coached me to embrace pressure. Pressure. Pressure is a privilege. Pressure means you're doing well, and I think he ingrained that inside of me, and there was I don't think I felt a whole lot of anxiety, nervousness and excitement absolutely, anxiety not so much.

Well. And remember it was the World Championships for my age group, right, so it was this big event I was, you know, I was chosen as Team Canada. There was a lot of excitement, But I don't think. I don't think I had like pressure other than the fact that I was chosen. I'm good enough to be here and to wear the Team Canada jacket, and I think I embraced it. I have great parents, great parents, and I have even though you put a pressure on me. He also I believed coached me to embrace pressure. Pressure. Pressure is a privilege. Pressure means you're doing well, and I think he ingrained that inside of me, and there was I don't think I felt a whole lot of anxiety, nervousness and excitement absolutely, anxiety not so much.

Yeah, very cool.

Yeah, very cool.

I love that pressure is a privilege, and you know, often pressure comes with mental blocks. And in your book Personal Podium, you talk a lot about overcoming mental blocks. And as a sports psychologist, I think that's kind of bread and butter, isn't it helping people to overcome mental blocks? So what are some of the biggest mental blocks that you see with people and how can we address them? And before you get into that, I think we do need to let people know not only your sports psychologist, but you also work with a lot of executives and I know a number of sports psychologists and and the techniques are very very applicable to the business world, anybody who has to our military, anyone who has to perform under pressure, Like sports psychology, that's where you want to go to, right, So talk to us about some of the biggest mental blocks you see in athletes and executives, and what are some things that people can do to overcome them and where do they come from as well? Let's just dive into the word of mental blocks.

I love that pressure is a privilege, and you know, often pressure comes with mental blocks. And in your book Personal Podium, you talk a lot about overcoming mental blocks. And as a sports psychologist, I think that's kind of bread and butter, isn't it helping people to overcome mental blocks? So what are some of the biggest mental blocks that you see with people and how can we address them? And before you get into that, I think we do need to let people know not only your sports psychologist, but you also work with a lot of executives and I know a number of sports psychologists and and the techniques are very very applicable to the business world, anybody who has to our military, anyone who has to perform under pressure, Like sports psychology, that's where you want to go to, right, So talk to us about some of the biggest mental blocks you see in athletes and executives, and what are some things that people can do to overcome them and where do they come from as well? Let's just dive into the word of mental blocks.

It's true, and you know and similar to you too, using the techniques for health behavior change as well, so wellness, business, and sport. Fear, fear of failure, fear of success, fear of you know, if I do it once, then I'm going to have the pressure to do it over and over and over again. You know, there's the fear of you know, living up to the reputation that I create for myself. Competitive anxiety. If people don't know how to embrace competition comes, they have a mental block around competition, injury, you know, damaging themselves, discomfort, the sacrifices that you're going to have to make. You know, with every health behavior change, with every success, there are sacrifices and so that comes with a whole lot of mental blocks as well.

It's true, and you know and similar to you too, using the techniques for health behavior change as well, so wellness, business, and sport. Fear, fear of failure, fear of success, fear of you know, if I do it once, then I'm going to have the pressure to do it over and over and over again. You know, there's the fear of you know, living up to the reputation that I create for myself. Competitive anxiety. If people don't know how to embrace competition comes, they have a mental block around competition, injury, you know, damaging themselves, discomfort, the sacrifices that you're going to have to make. You know, with every health behavior change, with every success, there are sacrifices and so that comes with a whole lot of mental blocks as well.

And so what are some things that people actually before we get into the things that people can do, do you find there is a different motivator or a different driver between fear of failure versus fear of success. Because everybody will have heard a fear of failure, but not a lot of people will probably have heard of fear of success. Although there are big mental blocks around people, you know, just don't do it because then you're going to have to live up to it.

And so what are some things that people actually before we get into the things that people can do, do you find there is a different motivator or a different driver between fear of failure versus fear of success. Because everybody will have heard a fear of failure, but not a lot of people will probably have heard of fear of success. Although there are big mental blocks around people, you know, just don't do it because then you're going to have to live up to it.

It's a big it's a big thing. And actually there are a lot of people who you know, may may be talented, may have the mental skill set, but they don't want the responsibility of needing to win and stay on top. That they won't ever let themselves get there because the chase to be first is actually, in my humble opinion, easier yeah than staying first. And so Tiger Woods said it the best. The difference between the great and just the very good is being able to do it again and again and again. And the best athletes out there, most of them that I can think of, don't win all the time because that's not possible. Winning isn't loyal to anybody, but they consistently, consistently stay ahead of the game.

It's a big it's a big thing. And actually there are a lot of people who you know, may may be talented, may have the mental skill set, but they don't want the responsibility of needing to win and stay on top. That they won't ever let themselves get there because the chase to be first is actually, in my humble opinion, easier yeah than staying first. And so Tiger Woods said it the best. The difference between the great and just the very good is being able to do it again and again and again. And the best athletes out there, most of them that I can think of, don't win all the time because that's not possible. Winning isn't loyal to anybody, but they consistently, consistently stay ahead of the game.

And so then talk to talk us through some of the things that we can do to address these various mental blocks.

And so then talk to talk us through some of the things that we can do to address these various mental blocks.

So I offer three suggestions, and we can talk about them in general terms so that everyone who's who's watching and listening can kind of relate it to them to their life. So one way is actually nothing to do with your mental and everything to do with your environment. And often we will fear, we will have anxiety, fear, frustration, worry, anger because of the environment, because the people we're keeping around us, or this situation, the physical you know, environment, our technique are sorry, not our technique, our equipment, the people, the environment. So if we can manipulate the situation, and I say that in a good way, we can manipulate what's going on outside of our minds. Sometimes that automatically relieves the mental block inside. So that's one situation. And in the business world, I've had people, you know now that many of us are working remotely, I've had people just rearrange their office and you think it's you think it's you know, maybe simple or insignificant. It can be very significant, depending on which window you're looking at, or the colors in your room, or the organization. So that overwhelm and that frustration can sometimes be taken away with just manipulating the environment. I've also had people change locations of countries, right, so it can go from small to big. If you can't manipulate the external, if you can't change your situation, or you can but you don't want to because that can bring other stressors. Then we want to reframe things, and I'll share a story if I can, and I'll use an athlete is a story that I tell often because it's I think it will relate to everyone. I had an athlete who was a junior athlete, so he was nineteen, his last year being a junior athlete, and he could practice really well, train wonderfully. He choked in competition and the mental block was one of intimidation. So in practice, right, it was all about what he's going to do to his game, present moment, and in competition he was intimidated by three specific opponents. What are they going to do to beat me? Is what he thought about. That was the mental block, how are they going to beat me? The interesting thing was that those three opponents were also his teammates. They were there in practice when he was focusing on himself. They were there in competition when he was focusing on them. So we had to we can't change the situation because those three opponents are there and everywhere he goes, they're not going to quit. He's not going to quit, so we can't change it. So I asked him to think about it differently, and I asked him a very clear question, what level of competition. Who do you want to be competing against? People much weaker than you at your level or way above you? Who do you want to be competing against? You know when it matters most, And he said, I want to be competing against my peers. I want to be competing against somewhat at my level because then when I win, it means something. I also have a chin ants of winning because they're not much better. So aren't you happy that these three opponents are there with you in competition? Aren't you choosing them? And he said yes. So instead of saying, oh no, what are they going to do to beat me? Thank you opponents for showing up today. I want you to bring your best because I'm going to use your energy to motivate me to bring my very best and beat you. And he reframed that story. But then you have to rehearse it, you have to train. So he journaled it, he visualized it, he talked about it to me, and then he went off to Sweden three months later to compete in the Junior World Championships, and not only did he beat those three opponents, he became the Junior World Champion.

So I offer three suggestions, and we can talk about them in general terms so that everyone who's who's watching and listening can kind of relate it to them to their life. So one way is actually nothing to do with your mental and everything to do with your environment. And often we will fear, we will have anxiety, fear, frustration, worry, anger because of the environment, because the people we're keeping around us, or this situation, the physical you know, environment, our technique are sorry, not our technique, our equipment, the people, the environment. So if we can manipulate the situation, and I say that in a good way, we can manipulate what's going on outside of our minds. Sometimes that automatically relieves the mental block inside. So that's one situation. And in the business world, I've had people, you know now that many of us are working remotely, I've had people just rearrange their office and you think it's you think it's you know, maybe simple or insignificant. It can be very significant, depending on which window you're looking at, or the colors in your room, or the organization. So that overwhelm and that frustration can sometimes be taken away with just manipulating the environment. I've also had people change locations of countries, right, so it can go from small to big. If you can't manipulate the external, if you can't change your situation, or you can but you don't want to because that can bring other stressors. Then we want to reframe things, and I'll share a story if I can, and I'll use an athlete is a story that I tell often because it's I think it will relate to everyone. I had an athlete who was a junior athlete, so he was nineteen, his last year being a junior athlete, and he could practice really well, train wonderfully. He choked in competition and the mental block was one of intimidation. So in practice, right, it was all about what he's going to do to his game, present moment, and in competition he was intimidated by three specific opponents. What are they going to do to beat me? Is what he thought about. That was the mental block, how are they going to beat me? The interesting thing was that those three opponents were also his teammates. They were there in practice when he was focusing on himself. They were there in competition when he was focusing on them. So we had to we can't change the situation because those three opponents are there and everywhere he goes, they're not going to quit. He's not going to quit, so we can't change it. So I asked him to think about it differently, and I asked him a very clear question, what level of competition. Who do you want to be competing against? People much weaker than you at your level or way above you? Who do you want to be competing against? You know when it matters most, And he said, I want to be competing against my peers. I want to be competing against somewhat at my level because then when I win, it means something. I also have a chin ants of winning because they're not much better. So aren't you happy that these three opponents are there with you in competition? Aren't you choosing them? And he said yes. So instead of saying, oh no, what are they going to do to beat me? Thank you opponents for showing up today. I want you to bring your best because I'm going to use your energy to motivate me to bring my very best and beat you. And he reframed that story. But then you have to rehearse it, you have to train. So he journaled it, he visualized it, he talked about it to me, and then he went off to Sweden three months later to compete in the Junior World Championships, and not only did he beat those three opponents, he became the Junior World Champion.

I'm very cold, very cool, indeed.

I'm very cold, very cool, indeed.

So they we talked a little bit about stress and pressure. So what role to Let's talk about how stress the role that it plays and performance booths in the business world and in the sports world, and how can people harness it.

So they we talked a little bit about stress and pressure. So what role to Let's talk about how stress the role that it plays and performance booths in the business world and in the sports world, and how can people harness it.

Yeah, it's a performance enhancer. We can harness it and use it. So you have to remember what pressure is. We feel pressure for things that we care about. We feel pressure for things that we believe we can we can have an impact on, we can do something, we can be successful. So that's that's actually a sign of self belief. And obviously we feel pressure when we're passionate about something, when we're motivated to do something, when we're in alignment. It's a value of ours. I don't feel any pressure when I'm just learning something new and have no expectations because I have no confidence. I don't feel pressure about us that I don't care about. I feel pressure about things that I do care about and that I do believe in myself. So we have to remember that pressure is a sign of desire and belief. So that's the thing. And then what physiologically pressure is is energy. Now a great example is you know those butterflies in your stomach that we all can feel no matter what you're doing. Yeah, those butterflies can be anxiety producing if they're swarming all around us taking over our bodies and our minds and taking over control. Or they can be energy when we take control of them. A great symbolic imagery technique that performers use is put those butterflies in an inverted V in your stomach, just like birds fly above, so that just like birds, we can be efficient. We can be effective, We can be fast if we need to be fast. So pressure is energy that's inside us physiologically that we can then use to go out there and make something happen with our strengths.

Yeah, it's a performance enhancer. We can harness it and use it. So you have to remember what pressure is. We feel pressure for things that we care about. We feel pressure for things that we believe we can we can have an impact on, we can do something, we can be successful. So that's that's actually a sign of self belief. And obviously we feel pressure when we're passionate about something, when we're motivated to do something, when we're in alignment. It's a value of ours. I don't feel any pressure when I'm just learning something new and have no expectations because I have no confidence. I don't feel pressure about us that I don't care about. I feel pressure about things that I do care about and that I do believe in myself. So we have to remember that pressure is a sign of desire and belief. So that's the thing. And then what physiologically pressure is is energy. Now a great example is you know those butterflies in your stomach that we all can feel no matter what you're doing. Yeah, those butterflies can be anxiety producing if they're swarming all around us taking over our bodies and our minds and taking over control. Or they can be energy when we take control of them. A great symbolic imagery technique that performers use is put those butterflies in an inverted V in your stomach, just like birds fly above, so that just like birds, we can be efficient. We can be effective, We can be fast if we need to be fast. So pressure is energy that's inside us physiologically that we can then use to go out there and make something happen with our strengths.

That is.

That is.

It actually reminds me of years ago with my kids and they were competing in karate and doing kumite, which is is combat, which is pretty full on right when when when you're a kid, and actually when you're a parent watching your kid do any type of sport, you know, you kind of get into it and live a bit vicuriously. But when you see your kids fight, it's completely different level.

It actually reminds me of years ago with my kids and they were competing in karate and doing kumite, which is is combat, which is pretty full on right when when when you're a kid, and actually when you're a parent watching your kid do any type of sport, you know, you kind of get into it and live a bit vicuriously. But when you see your kids fight, it's completely different level.

Right.

Right.

But I remember and talking to my kids and and Kira was at one stage talking about the how she was feeling anxious and nervous, and I was saying to her, that's just energy, that's all it is, and you need to harness that energy. And we did this little process around her creating this best self we called what she called Shaka, which is a She came up with that word, which is I think at Zulu for great warrior, right, And she actually decided when she was competing, I think was in the Victorian Championships, she said she actually said to me, Dad, I'm going to use this energy to transform me into shaka. And as soon as I step onto the tatami, that energy is going to transform me into Shaka, which I thought was really cool. So she took a couple of little techniques and molded them together and actually use that energy to actually give her that lift or to transformer.

But I remember and talking to my kids and and Kira was at one stage talking about the how she was feeling anxious and nervous, and I was saying to her, that's just energy, that's all it is, and you need to harness that energy. And we did this little process around her creating this best self we called what she called Shaka, which is a She came up with that word, which is I think at Zulu for great warrior, right, And she actually decided when she was competing, I think was in the Victorian Championships, she said she actually said to me, Dad, I'm going to use this energy to transform me into shaka. And as soon as I step onto the tatami, that energy is going to transform me into Shaka, which I thought was really cool. So she took a couple of little techniques and molded them together and actually use that energy to actually give her that lift or to transformer.

You know that.

You know that.

And I don't know if you ever saw the kids program the transformers where they would transform into something else.

And I don't know if you ever saw the kids program the transformers where they would transform into something else.

And it is really about harnessing that.

And it is really about harnessing that.

And when you when you talk to athletes and go, it's exactly the same like nervousness, anxiety, it is energy and all you gotta do is harness that energy. You know, you're a kid's lion and just say it's not time yet, not yet, right.

And when you when you talk to athletes and go, it's exactly the same like nervousness, anxiety, it is energy and all you gotta do is harness that energy. You know, you're a kid's lion and just say it's not time yet, not yet, right.

So I was going to say to say an additional tool that your daughter used, which is, I know what you teach people too, is that best self? Right? So when I the difference, one way that we can distinguish retain anxiety and arousal, nervousness and excitement is confidence. It's really hard to be anxious and confident at the same time with anxiety, trying self doubt, nervousness, like this is a challenge. I care and you know, like there's a lot of there's a lot of energy, and I can maintain confidence. So you had the best strength. With everyone that I work with, we always start with your top three fundamental strengths. And so when when you're experiencing that pressure, one way to harness it is to remind yourself that this is energy. And I'm going to now choose one of those top three fundamentalstal strengths and expose myself to that stressor with my strength. And that is how you kind of stay away from the anxiety zone and embrace the arousal zone, which is where peak performance happens.

So I was going to say to say an additional tool that your daughter used, which is, I know what you teach people too, is that best self? Right? So when I the difference, one way that we can distinguish retain anxiety and arousal, nervousness and excitement is confidence. It's really hard to be anxious and confident at the same time with anxiety, trying self doubt, nervousness, like this is a challenge. I care and you know, like there's a lot of there's a lot of energy, and I can maintain confidence. So you had the best strength. With everyone that I work with, we always start with your top three fundamental strengths. And so when when you're experiencing that pressure, one way to harness it is to remind yourself that this is energy. And I'm going to now choose one of those top three fundamentalstal strengths and expose myself to that stressor with my strength. And that is how you kind of stay away from the anxiety zone and embrace the arousal zone, which is where peak performance happens.

Yeah, and it's kind of like this Goldilocks effect isn't it really when you're talking about pressure, it can't be too much, it can't be too little. It's got to be just right, because if there's not enough, your body's not going to be aroused enough, right. So I think having that frame.

Yeah, and it's kind of like this Goldilocks effect isn't it really when you're talking about pressure, it can't be too much, it can't be too little. It's got to be just right, because if there's not enough, your body's not going to be aroused enough, right. So I think having that frame.

About arousal under arousal, over arousal.

About arousal under arousal, over arousal.

Optimal arousal, and forgetting about anxiety and what you're talking about are those little techniques that just bring the level of arousal down into the goldilocks zone where it's really ideal. And I think that that's really key for people to understand, isn't it is that without pressure, without stress, you cannot perform at your best. I think everybody can relate to a job that they did at some stage that was as boring as batshit, and I think if they reflect their performance wasn't great because we all need a level of arizal to get ourselves interested in both our bodies and our brains right right.

Optimal arousal, and forgetting about anxiety and what you're talking about are those little techniques that just bring the level of arousal down into the goldilocks zone where it's really ideal. And I think that that's really key for people to understand, isn't it is that without pressure, without stress, you cannot perform at your best. I think everybody can relate to a job that they did at some stage that was as boring as batshit, and I think if they reflect their performance wasn't great because we all need a level of arizal to get ourselves interested in both our bodies and our brains right right.

And I was just noticing your pen. I use the same pen. I love it. The four colors.

And I was just noticing your pen. I use the same pen. I love it. The four colors.

Yes, No, it.

Yes, No, it.

Heightens your attentions. That's what this energy does. That's what the pressure of the stress. It heightens our attention. It again increases blood flow and a certain level of you know, chemicals flowing through your body that we need. But you're right, when we go past the point of our ideal zone of optimal functioning. When we go past that point, you know it's too much muscle tension. Our focus either gets too too narrow or sometimes it's too broad that you can't focus on anything at all. So our concentration is impacted or body is impacted. The mental blocks come flying in when it's when you go past that goldilocks, when you go past that point of your ideal zone. So we need to first identify what our individual zone of functioning is, and then you have to create I mean, I'm a big believer in just it's not just about knowing this, it's it's figuring out how to do it. You know, how to get into that zone. And we all have visual cues, attentional cues, verbal cues that we can utilize to consistently give us our best shot at getting into that ideal zone of functioning.

Heightens your attentions. That's what this energy does. That's what the pressure of the stress. It heightens our attention. It again increases blood flow and a certain level of you know, chemicals flowing through your body that we need. But you're right, when we go past the point of our ideal zone of optimal functioning. When we go past that point, you know it's too much muscle tension. Our focus either gets too too narrow or sometimes it's too broad that you can't focus on anything at all. So our concentration is impacted or body is impacted. The mental blocks come flying in when it's when you go past that goldilocks, when you go past that point of your ideal zone. So we need to first identify what our individual zone of functioning is, and then you have to create I mean, I'm a big believer in just it's not just about knowing this, it's it's figuring out how to do it. You know, how to get into that zone. And we all have visual cues, attentional cues, verbal cues that we can utilize to consistently give us our best shot at getting into that ideal zone of functioning.

And so to get all of this right, like how important are routines? So you will see anybody who watches sport closely will see certain athletes that have certain routines. You know, you think of a pretty famous one. Nadal the tennis place before he serves, has this little routine that he does that it involves picking his undise out of his arse as well.

And so to get all of this right, like how important are routines? So you will see anybody who watches sport closely will see certain athletes that have certain routines. You know, you think of a pretty famous one. Nadal the tennis place before he serves, has this little routine that he does that it involves picking his undise out of his arse as well.

You actually mentioned that there first go around here. Yes, yes, yes.

You actually mentioned that there first go around here. Yes, yes, yes.

Because it's the one that really sticks with me, right because it's so noticeable.

Because it's the one that really sticks with me, right because it's so noticeable.

But he does it all of the I did do it all of the time. But but talk to us about.

But he does it all of the I did do it all of the time. But but talk to us about.

The importance of those routines and gaining people into that mindset or that zone of optimal performance. And and how can you know, business people, moms, dads, how can they they use some of those techniques to just make sure that they're in that zone of optimal functioning because, as we said, too little that can just there's no motivation, too much and empowers everything from cognition to motor control, to reaction time, all of that stuff.

The importance of those routines and gaining people into that mindset or that zone of optimal performance. And and how can you know, business people, moms, dads, how can they they use some of those techniques to just make sure that they're in that zone of optimal functioning because, as we said, too little that can just there's no motivation, too much and empowers everything from cognition to motor control, to reaction time, all of that stuff.

It's essential, it's essential. And what it does is it's prime. It primes your mind, it primes your emotions, and it primes your body. And you know, routine, that's how we get it into our subconscious. Right. We are creatures of habit. But nothing started off as a habit. Everything started off as a ritual. Everything started off as these consistent routines, and the more we do them, the more they became ingrained and then became habit setting usself, setting ourselves up for success. And as we mentioned, yes it could be you know, picking out your wedgie, but it could be certain songs. They are athletes that hum to ourselves. There are affirmations mantras there. You know, you'll see people kind of lip maybe they're talking out loud, but on TV you'll just see their lips moving music. You see top performers listening to music all the time that is very selective music that they are using to zone in once.

It's essential, it's essential. And what it does is it's prime. It primes your mind, it primes your emotions, and it primes your body. And you know, routine, that's how we get it into our subconscious. Right. We are creatures of habit. But nothing started off as a habit. Everything started off as a ritual. Everything started off as these consistent routines, and the more we do them, the more they became ingrained and then became habit setting usself, setting ourselves up for success. And as we mentioned, yes it could be you know, picking out your wedgie, but it could be certain songs. They are athletes that hum to ourselves. There are affirmations mantras there. You know, you'll see people kind of lip maybe they're talking out loud, but on TV you'll just see their lips moving music. You see top performers listening to music all the time that is very selective music that they are using to zone in once.

Yeah, it's not a random Spotify playlist, is it?

Yeah, it's not a random Spotify playlist, is it?

No?

No?

No, no, no? I Oh her name escapes me. But there's this female hurdler. This she dances like you can just google the dancing hurdler. Just do an online search for the dancing hurdler. And she's got her hands on her hips and she's like swaying and happy and you go down the line and everyone else is so serious and she's just block you know, doing this to keep herself enthusiastic and energized because obviously anger does not suit her. Before it it does not cryme her. So we can do so many different types again, visual cues, physical cues, verbal cues. They're all attentional cues that we create a routine around that we do consistently that aid us to give us the best opportunity to get into that zone. And then here's the other thing that I'd like to just intervene here too, Not only just about the pre performance routine. I'm also a really big fan of the post performance routine, so that you can have closure at the end. You can put a period at that end of your performance, whether it's giving a presentation, whether it's you know, having a difficult meeting, going for a five k run, whatever it might be, having a post performance routine so that whatever happened in that performance does not automatically have to have anything to do with your next performance, good or bad.

No, no, no? I Oh her name escapes me. But there's this female hurdler. This she dances like you can just google the dancing hurdler. Just do an online search for the dancing hurdler. And she's got her hands on her hips and she's like swaying and happy and you go down the line and everyone else is so serious and she's just block you know, doing this to keep herself enthusiastic and energized because obviously anger does not suit her. Before it it does not cryme her. So we can do so many different types again, visual cues, physical cues, verbal cues. They're all attentional cues that we create a routine around that we do consistently that aid us to give us the best opportunity to get into that zone. And then here's the other thing that I'd like to just intervene here too, Not only just about the pre performance routine. I'm also a really big fan of the post performance routine, so that you can have closure at the end. You can put a period at that end of your performance, whether it's giving a presentation, whether it's you know, having a difficult meeting, going for a five k run, whatever it might be, having a post performance routine so that whatever happened in that performance does not automatically have to have anything to do with your next performance, good or bad.

Yeah, that that's actually a really important point, and that that transfer from sports psychology to the business world. And I will actually I often talk to the leadership teams around this that when I was in the military, every every time we went on a flight, so I was military air crew, we we did a brief for the flight and always, without feel did a debrief right. And there wasn't a single flight that I ever went on that we didn't do a debrief, and and the debrief was about, you know, what went well? Did it go according to plant? Did it not go according to plan?

Yeah, that that's actually a really important point, and that that transfer from sports psychology to the business world. And I will actually I often talk to the leadership teams around this that when I was in the military, every every time we went on a flight, so I was military air crew, we we did a brief for the flight and always, without feel did a debrief right. And there wasn't a single flight that I ever went on that we didn't do a debrief, and and the debrief was about, you know, what went well? Did it go according to plant? Did it not go according to plan?

What?

What?

What sort of stuff did we learn right? And that debrief came came out of really the air crew world, because it's a very dangerous game. I remember an old, crusty pilot who was was was training us called NIGHTE. Hennell told us that when he first got his wings and went out onto on his first assignment, he went on an aircraft carrier and sealed from Southampton in the UK to the Far East, and he said, by the time they got to the Far East, half of all the air crew were dead. Because operating helicopters off ships in the nineteen sixties was particularly dangerous. So they created that culture of having a debrief all of the time, and then any incidents that happened, everybody heard about those incidents. And still to this day, you're not allowed as the aircraft captain to sign out your aircraft unless you've read all of the aircraft incidents and signed off on them. And that whole idea was learning from ourselves, learning just those little things that happened consistently that you might not notice, but also learning from others.

What sort of stuff did we learn right? And that debrief came came out of really the air crew world, because it's a very dangerous game. I remember an old, crusty pilot who was was was training us called NIGHTE. Hennell told us that when he first got his wings and went out onto on his first assignment, he went on an aircraft carrier and sealed from Southampton in the UK to the Far East, and he said, by the time they got to the Far East, half of all the air crew were dead. Because operating helicopters off ships in the nineteen sixties was particularly dangerous. So they created that culture of having a debrief all of the time, and then any incidents that happened, everybody heard about those incidents. And still to this day, you're not allowed as the aircraft captain to sign out your aircraft unless you've read all of the aircraft incidents and signed off on them. And that whole idea was learning from ourselves, learning just those little things that happened consistently that you might not notice, but also learning from others.

So I love that idea of that closure.

So I love that idea of that closure.

As well and using it as a learning lesson because it's really important that we do that right.

As well and using it as a learning lesson because it's really important that we do that right.

It's essential. And at the time of this recording, Lindsey Vaughn just she retired downhill ski racer, retired and then at forty came back into ski racing and she just earned a silver medal and a World Cup in an interview, and she's had so many crashes. She's actually has a knee replacement, and I don't know any other athletes that have come back after retirement with a knee replacement and being away from for six years in her sport. But the reason I bring her up is because I was just listening to her give an interview and she talked about all the past performances and she and I quote, learn any race because you have to have and that's that closure piece. Do you completely erase it from your memory? Not possible, maybe, and you don't not always want to do that either, But if you're going to go from one performance to the next, you have to be present, right the best performers are the ones that are in the moment present. So you debrief, you learn, and then you momentarily at least erase the performance so that you can then move on to the next present performance.

It's essential. And at the time of this recording, Lindsey Vaughn just she retired downhill ski racer, retired and then at forty came back into ski racing and she just earned a silver medal and a World Cup in an interview, and she's had so many crashes. She's actually has a knee replacement, and I don't know any other athletes that have come back after retirement with a knee replacement and being away from for six years in her sport. But the reason I bring her up is because I was just listening to her give an interview and she talked about all the past performances and she and I quote, learn any race because you have to have and that's that closure piece. Do you completely erase it from your memory? Not possible, maybe, and you don't not always want to do that either, But if you're going to go from one performance to the next, you have to be present, right the best performers are the ones that are in the moment present. So you debrief, you learn, and then you momentarily at least erase the performance so that you can then move on to the next present performance.

Nice. I like that.

Nice. I like that.

And and that idea of president actually leads me into another question and around process versus outcome. So what talk us through that? I'm just going to throw that art process versus outcome.

And and that idea of president actually leads me into another question and around process versus outcome. So what talk us through that? I'm just going to throw that art process versus outcome.

It's all I care about the process, process, process. It's all I care about. Athletes, whether you're sport, business, wellness, you'll come to me, and in my private practice, you might tell me what it is that you want to achieve. I will you know. I'm not I'm not going to actually ask that question, though. I want to know what your best strengths are, and then I want to know what your process is and see how we can improve upon it, what's working, what's not working. Eventually I'll learn what the you know, what the outcome is that you're wanting and if you come to me and tell me, and that's great too if you know it. But there are people who actually don't know what their outcome goals are. Yet there are people who don't really know what it is that they that they are doing what they're doing for and that's perfectly acceptable to me. Let's get into the process and then you're going to see what you're made of. And it's the only way to truly realize your potential is to dive into the process and be consistent with that and then let the outcome take care of itself.

It's all I care about the process, process, process. It's all I care about. Athletes, whether you're sport, business, wellness, you'll come to me, and in my private practice, you might tell me what it is that you want to achieve. I will you know. I'm not I'm not going to actually ask that question, though. I want to know what your best strengths are, and then I want to know what your process is and see how we can improve upon it, what's working, what's not working. Eventually I'll learn what the you know, what the outcome is that you're wanting and if you come to me and tell me, and that's great too if you know it. But there are people who actually don't know what their outcome goals are. Yet there are people who don't really know what it is that they that they are doing what they're doing for and that's perfectly acceptable to me. Let's get into the process and then you're going to see what you're made of. And it's the only way to truly realize your potential is to dive into the process and be consistent with that and then let the outcome take care of itself.

Yeah, and and I find I actually working with karate athletes, so I've been doing a bit of mindset coaching for the Karate Australia athletes who are wanting to get to the Olympics, the World Championships and talking to these elite guys when they are in competition and they're focused on the outcome on winning, that's when they they say that their performance goes to ratchet, right, And it's because it's it's a distraction and it also tips you out of that goldilock zone and puts that extra pressure on about winning or who's in the audience watching me that sort of stuff, and it does two things. I think One is it distracts you from being present and you talked about the importance of that. But secondly, you're then with that attention going to the outcome, it actually adds pressure, well, what if I lose, right, am I going to win this? That sort of stuff that can tip you out of that goldilock zone into over arisal that can then affect performance. So it's kind of it's a little bit twofold, isn't it. From both of those things, it.

Yeah, and and I find I actually working with karate athletes, so I've been doing a bit of mindset coaching for the Karate Australia athletes who are wanting to get to the Olympics, the World Championships and talking to these elite guys when they are in competition and they're focused on the outcome on winning, that's when they they say that their performance goes to ratchet, right, And it's because it's it's a distraction and it also tips you out of that goldilock zone and puts that extra pressure on about winning or who's in the audience watching me that sort of stuff, and it does two things. I think One is it distracts you from being present and you talked about the importance of that. But secondly, you're then with that attention going to the outcome, it actually adds pressure, well, what if I lose, right, am I going to win this? That sort of stuff that can tip you out of that goldilock zone into over arisal that can then affect performance. So it's kind of it's a little bit twofold, isn't it. From both of those things, it.

Also changes the experience of the outcome in my in my humble opinion, when you're so focused, like you said, the necessity to win whatever winning means to you, right, it doesn't necessarily have to be first place, whatever, whatever winning means to you, whatever that goal is. If you're so focused on it and not focused on the process, if if you do happen to get that win, sometimes it can be more of a relief than a celebration. Yes, yes, it's unfortunate because you've worked so hard, let's celebrate this instead of Okay, thank goodness, I did what I set out to do and listen. I do believe, obviously, I do believe in goals. I believe that they are very motivating. They when you fall down, there are a reason to get back up. They provide persistence and determination, and they help you create strategy for the process. Because this is what I want to achieve. Now, how am I going to get to it?

Also changes the experience of the outcome in my in my humble opinion, when you're so focused, like you said, the necessity to win whatever winning means to you, right, it doesn't necessarily have to be first place, whatever, whatever winning means to you, whatever that goal is. If you're so focused on it and not focused on the process, if if you do happen to get that win, sometimes it can be more of a relief than a celebration. Yes, yes, it's unfortunate because you've worked so hard, let's celebrate this instead of Okay, thank goodness, I did what I set out to do and listen. I do believe, obviously, I do believe in goals. I believe that they are very motivating. They when you fall down, there are a reason to get back up. They provide persistence and determination, and they help you create strategy for the process. Because this is what I want to achieve. Now, how am I going to get to it?

Yes?

Yes?

But if that is what we're focusing on in the moment, it is a distraction, like you said, so let it motivate you and then but you have to be very aware of when it actually is hurting you to be focusing on the outcome instead of helping you with that energy. We were talking about the process is the present moment?

But if that is what we're focusing on in the moment, it is a distraction, like you said, so let it motivate you and then but you have to be very aware of when it actually is hurting you to be focusing on the outcome instead of helping you with that energy. We were talking about the process is the present moment?

Yeah?

Yeah?

Absolutely, So you talked really are about You mentioned a little bit about failure or bouncing back. How do you help people to bounce back from setbacks? Because sometimes when someone has a big setback, whether it's in the corporate world or in the sports world, it can be absolutely crushing for them, and that ability to bounce back is really case.

Absolutely, So you talked really are about You mentioned a little bit about failure or bouncing back. How do you help people to bounce back from setbacks? Because sometimes when someone has a big setback, whether it's in the corporate world or in the sports world, it can be absolutely crushing for them, and that ability to bounce back is really case.

So what are some of the techniques that.

So what are some of the techniques that.

You use that everyone can can use and to help them just bounce back and get back on the truck.

You use that everyone can can use and to help them just bounce back and get back on the truck.

It's kind of similar to the acceptance of pressure. We have to accept that that failure is an option. I am not a big fan when I hear people say failure isn't an option. It is an option. It happens to every single person. There is not one top performer in business or sport that has you know, won every single step of the way. So failure is an option. Phew, like relief. It can happen, and so now I don't have to focus on it, and now let me focus on the process. So that's one one thing. But even in addition to that acceptance, we talk about striving for perfection demanding perfection. I think those are two different things. I personally strive for perfection. I want to be perfect every single moment of my life, but I do not demand it of myself because that is unnecessary, negative anxiety. So I strive for perfection with the understanding. This is why I'm going to bring in the acceptance of failure, with the understanding that I will at some point fail, I will fall down. So the then goal, if you will, is to not just strive for perfection, but I also have a secondary goal to be the best recover I can be. So if I make a mistake, I'm not going to harp on that mistake because I'm not done yet. The work is not done. My work is now how am I going to best recover? If I'm giving a keynote and I forget my next line, right, I'm not just going to walk off the stage. No, I'm going to be the best recoverer I can be. How am I going to immediately get myself back up? Team sports do this all the time, or athletes do this all the time. If they have a failure, they're not done yet. It's not over. They have to best recover. And often the athlete who wins at the end of the day is not the perfect athlete. It's the athlete that best recovered. So we have to change our mindset strive for perfection. But failure happens. Okay, accept that, and now my focus is when I fail, how am I going to best recover? And often that's going to lead me to the optimal success?

It's kind of similar to the acceptance of pressure. We have to accept that that failure is an option. I am not a big fan when I hear people say failure isn't an option. It is an option. It happens to every single person. There is not one top performer in business or sport that has you know, won every single step of the way. So failure is an option. Phew, like relief. It can happen, and so now I don't have to focus on it, and now let me focus on the process. So that's one one thing. But even in addition to that acceptance, we talk about striving for perfection demanding perfection. I think those are two different things. I personally strive for perfection. I want to be perfect every single moment of my life, but I do not demand it of myself because that is unnecessary, negative anxiety. So I strive for perfection with the understanding. This is why I'm going to bring in the acceptance of failure, with the understanding that I will at some point fail, I will fall down. So the then goal, if you will, is to not just strive for perfection, but I also have a secondary goal to be the best recover I can be. So if I make a mistake, I'm not going to harp on that mistake because I'm not done yet. The work is not done. My work is now how am I going to best recover? If I'm giving a keynote and I forget my next line, right, I'm not just going to walk off the stage. No, I'm going to be the best recoverer I can be. How am I going to immediately get myself back up? Team sports do this all the time, or athletes do this all the time. If they have a failure, they're not done yet. It's not over. They have to best recover. And often the athlete who wins at the end of the day is not the perfect athlete. It's the athlete that best recovered. So we have to change our mindset strive for perfection. But failure happens. Okay, accept that, and now my focus is when I fail, how am I going to best recover? And often that's going to lead me to the optimal success?

And how important in recovery is learning from failures?

And how important in recovery is learning from failures?

Is that?

Is that?

Is that always an important part of the process or are there times when you can still recover really well without actually going through and going what can I actually learn from this?

Is that always an important part of the process or are there times when you can still recover really well without actually going through and going what can I actually learn from this?

I think it depends on the situation. So if you're now in a meeting and you stumble, or someone you know throws a question at you that you can't answer, you don't really have a moment to go off. Take five minutes, take ten minutes and recover and then come back. You have to bounce back. A figure skater falls in their routine, they don't get to just sit and learn and recover. They need to bounce right back. So you have to really understand the situation in which you're in. Other times there is an opportunity to recover, to renew some energy, to let the emotions kind of work their way in and out. If you're doing recovery properly, the emotions will come in and then you'll let them go, and then you can bring the logical mind back in to say, okay, how could I you know, how can I then move forward from here? So it really depends. Some times you're not going to have a lot of opportunity, so you'll have to get to it when you do have the moment.

I think it depends on the situation. So if you're now in a meeting and you stumble, or someone you know throws a question at you that you can't answer, you don't really have a moment to go off. Take five minutes, take ten minutes and recover and then come back. You have to bounce back. A figure skater falls in their routine, they don't get to just sit and learn and recover. They need to bounce right back. So you have to really understand the situation in which you're in. Other times there is an opportunity to recover, to renew some energy, to let the emotions kind of work their way in and out. If you're doing recovery properly, the emotions will come in and then you'll let them go, and then you can bring the logical mind back in to say, okay, how could I you know, how can I then move forward from here? So it really depends. Some times you're not going to have a lot of opportunity, so you'll have to get to it when you do have the moment.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

Is that that you can use the learning during the debrief right when there's time to debrief when it's over. But as you say, sometimes you're in the thick of it and you've just made a mistake and you need to just get back on the horse super super quick, right.

Is that that you can use the learning during the debrief right when there's time to debrief when it's over. But as you say, sometimes you're in the thick of it and you've just made a mistake and you need to just get back on the horse super super quick, right.

So you'll have to shelflirting from later.

So you'll have to shelflirting from later.

Yea, yes, And is that where some of these cues come in, you know, whether that's like a little mantra that you say to yourself, or what are some of the techniques that people can use in that moment right right when they're in the thick of it and they screw up and they realize they screw up hard?

Yea, yes, And is that where some of these cues come in, you know, whether that's like a little mantra that you say to yourself, or what are some of the techniques that people can use in that moment right right when they're in the thick of it and they screw up and they realize they screw up hard?

Do they really.

Do they really.

Quickly get themselves back into that performance zone and not overthink or what what I just bloody did?

Quickly get themselves back into that performance zone and not overthink or what what I just bloody did?

Yeah, so it's a really shortened version of that post performance routine we were talking about closure, or another word is recent, you know, so it's reset. So maybe your mantra is right left, right left, you know, that's that's my mantra, right left, right left, what's next? What's next? I know that tennis players will like look at stair, at the strings of their racket, or you know, throw their if they're right handed, throw it into their left hand. Little change. I love for all industries, business, health and sport. Progressive muscular relaxation that you can do very quickly, which because when you make a mistake, you tend to get a your body tends to be tense and it's really hard to just relax. But you can go from that tense to even more tense for five seconds, and then you've got somewhere to go progressive muscular relaxation. So you can just take a body part, just tense it even more than you already are tense for five seconds and then let it out and that can be you know, a physical reset, and.

Yeah, so it's a really shortened version of that post performance routine we were talking about closure, or another word is recent, you know, so it's reset. So maybe your mantra is right left, right left, you know, that's that's my mantra, right left, right left, what's next? What's next? I know that tennis players will like look at stair, at the strings of their racket, or you know, throw their if they're right handed, throw it into their left hand. Little change. I love for all industries, business, health and sport. Progressive muscular relaxation that you can do very quickly, which because when you make a mistake, you tend to get a your body tends to be tense and it's really hard to just relax. But you can go from that tense to even more tense for five seconds, and then you've got somewhere to go progressive muscular relaxation. So you can just take a body part, just tense it even more than you already are tense for five seconds and then let it out and that can be you know, a physical reset, and.

That physical reset plays into the psychology. I mean, this is really important for people to understand, isn't it That there's this two way interaction that and most people get that your psychology really affects your sip of your physiology. Right, somebody who's really stressed feels it in their stomach, feels at tension, all of those things. But your physiology massively influences your psychology, doesn't. And just that little extra squeeze can not only relax your muscles, but relax your mind.

That physical reset plays into the psychology. I mean, this is really important for people to understand, isn't it That there's this two way interaction that and most people get that your psychology really affects your sip of your physiology. Right, somebody who's really stressed feels it in their stomach, feels at tension, all of those things. But your physiology massively influences your psychology, doesn't. And just that little extra squeeze can not only relax your muscles, but relax your mind.

It's like it's also an emotional event, so it relaxes your mind, it vents your emotions. In performance psychology, when we're talking about like techniques tool strategies, we're often either teaching mind body techniques, which means something you do to your mind helps both your mind and your body. But then there's body to mind techniques, something you do to your body helps your body.

It's like it's also an emotional event, so it relaxes your mind, it vents your emotions. In performance psychology, when we're talking about like techniques tool strategies, we're often either teaching mind body techniques, which means something you do to your mind helps both your mind and your body. But then there's body to mind techniques, something you do to your body helps your body.

Interesting. Interesting, talk to us.

Interesting. Interesting, talk to us.

A little bit more about those body mind techniques because it's not self and that a lot of people will have heard of.

A little bit more about those body mind techniques because it's not self and that a lot of people will have heard of.

So the body to mind would be an example that progressive muscular relaxation, taking a body part and tensing it for ten seconds, hold and then you relax and like as you said, which you're completely right upon, that not only relaxes your body, it also then automatically calm your mind. Breathing. Breathing is a physiological technique, so that's also a body technique that goes to your mind. Tapping, not that I not that I know, I'm not an expert in tapping, but tapping is like when you literally, you.

So the body to mind would be an example that progressive muscular relaxation, taking a body part and tensing it for ten seconds, hold and then you relax and like as you said, which you're completely right upon, that not only relaxes your body, it also then automatically calm your mind. Breathing. Breathing is a physiological technique, so that's also a body technique that goes to your mind. Tapping, not that I not that I know, I'm not an expert in tapping, but tapping is like when you literally, you.

Know, you like, ah, yes, yes, yes you tap.

Know, you like, ah, yes, yes, yes you tap.

You tap emotional free and becolor emotional freedom technique. I think it's okay, And there's there's there is a there's an emotional freedom technique that I believe involves tapping. And somebody will put me up if I'm wrong about that, but yeah, because because that's big, and it's it's mediated all of this through the nervous system, that's what it's.

You tap emotional free and becolor emotional freedom technique. I think it's okay, And there's there's there is a there's an emotional freedom technique that I believe involves tapping. And somebody will put me up if I'm wrong about that, but yeah, because because that's big, and it's it's mediated all of this through the nervous system, that's what it's.

Yeah, absolutely, just going out there, you know, I was just actually this last week on a call with an athlete who was experiencing some she needed to reset quick, like she was triggered and the reframing the mind to body techniques that we were talking about weren't really working. So I told her to go and do some sprints or some pushups or some jumping jacks, high intensity, not to blow your physical energy, but very quick, just do something to get the blood circulating through your body, which automatically will change the energy in your mind, you know, because now you're kind of your heart rates up, a little bit of blood circulating, You're gonna have a different mental, psychological, and emotional experience just by going and getting your body, you know, all that blood circulating through your body through some high intensity movement.

Yeah, absolutely, just going out there, you know, I was just actually this last week on a call with an athlete who was experiencing some she needed to reset quick, like she was triggered and the reframing the mind to body techniques that we were talking about weren't really working. So I told her to go and do some sprints or some pushups or some jumping jacks, high intensity, not to blow your physical energy, but very quick, just do something to get the blood circulating through your body, which automatically will change the energy in your mind, you know, because now you're kind of your heart rates up, a little bit of blood circulating, You're gonna have a different mental, psychological, and emotional experience just by going and getting your body, you know, all that blood circulating through your body through some high intensity movement.

Yeah, I remember.

Yeah, I remember.

I see one thing about like pinching your your thumb and your forefinger, you know those There's there's just so many things that people can do to just give them the salves that reset. And I love the idea, this this concept of reset, and it's just something that you can do super quick, whether it's a word, whether it's squeezing your thumb and your forefinger, whether it's squeezing your leg muscles or whatever.

I see one thing about like pinching your your thumb and your forefinger, you know those There's there's just so many things that people can do to just give them the salves that reset. And I love the idea, this this concept of reset, and it's just something that you can do super quick, whether it's a word, whether it's squeezing your thumb and your forefinger, whether it's squeezing your leg muscles or whatever.

And I think our listeners should practice that, right.

And I think our listeners should practice that, right.

And and and then it's about repetition, isn't it. Because what it's doing then is it's setting up a loop of Pavlovian learning loop in your brain.

And and and then it's about repetition, isn't it. Because what it's doing then is it's setting up a loop of Pavlovian learning loop in your brain.

I was just about to say, we're all Pavlov's dogs. So yes, absolutely, yes, But you nailed at the practice, the training. This is the best lesson we can learn from athletes. Actually, probably what you did to flying planes in the military the best lessons. There's a lot of training that goes on in military, Harry, There's a lot of training that goes on in sports. Athletes train much more than they compete. We have to train in our lives. We have to train and do these tools when we don't need them so that when we do need them they're accessible.

I was just about to say, we're all Pavlov's dogs. So yes, absolutely, yes, But you nailed at the practice, the training. This is the best lesson we can learn from athletes. Actually, probably what you did to flying planes in the military the best lessons. There's a lot of training that goes on in military, Harry, There's a lot of training that goes on in sports. Athletes train much more than they compete. We have to train in our lives. We have to train and do these tools when we don't need them so that when we do need them they're accessible.

Yeah. Absolutely, not training.

Yeah. Absolutely, not training.

There is a shitload of hard work that is in behind effortless performance.

There is a shitload of hard work that is in behind effortless performance.

I love that effortless well well, and for sure with the mind, I mean the whole the whole purpose in my mind, the whole purpose of mental training is to quiet the mind and the emotions so that our bodies can do what we've been training it to do. Yes, and that's the whole you know, so, and that would be effortless movement, right, Like, we don't have to have our bodies to do what we've been training it to do, and but our mind and our emotions get in the way, so we have to train it to kind of show it or work for us, and then it becomes so much more free, free movement, effortless.

I love that effortless well well, and for sure with the mind, I mean the whole the whole purpose in my mind, the whole purpose of mental training is to quiet the mind and the emotions so that our bodies can do what we've been training it to do. Yes, and that's the whole you know, so, and that would be effortless movement, right, Like, we don't have to have our bodies to do what we've been training it to do, and but our mind and our emotions get in the way, so we have to train it to kind of show it or work for us, and then it becomes so much more free, free movement, effortless.

Yeah, absolutely, And let's not because you've mentioned attention a couple of times, and and attention and focus are two words that are intimately related and attentional control. I've been thinking more and more about attention. I was involved in this Dealthie study which was identifying the trainable cognitive drivers of performance under pressure. And in this Dealthi study was a whole heap of experts. There was sports psychologists, business psychologists, military psychologists. We all had to reate these trainable cognitive primaries, as they were called.

Yeah, absolutely, And let's not because you've mentioned attention a couple of times, and and attention and focus are two words that are intimately related and attentional control. I've been thinking more and more about attention. I was involved in this Dealthie study which was identifying the trainable cognitive drivers of performance under pressure. And in this Dealthi study was a whole heap of experts. There was sports psychologists, business psychologists, military psychologists. We all had to reate these trainable cognitive primaries, as they were called.

But the one thing.

But the one thing.

That everybody put at the top of the list was attentional control. And I think number three was arousal control, right, I think number two was performance monitoring. I'll actually flicky the paper, you'd love the paper, right, But but that and and I've been thinking more and more about attention because whatever you pay attention to, your brand, commits sales to and your your body is oriented towards right. So give us some practical tips, because with athletes, it's all about training that focus, which is essentially training their attention. So what are some tips that you use in in sports psychology that that anybody, whether they're an amateur sports person or will have professional sports people listening to this, or business people are even just normal people.

That everybody put at the top of the list was attentional control. And I think number three was arousal control, right, I think number two was performance monitoring. I'll actually flicky the paper, you'd love the paper, right, But but that and and I've been thinking more and more about attention because whatever you pay attention to, your brand, commits sales to and your your body is oriented towards right. So give us some practical tips, because with athletes, it's all about training that focus, which is essentially training their attention. So what are some tips that you use in in sports psychology that that anybody, whether they're an amateur sports person or will have professional sports people listening to this, or business people are even just normal people.

How can they train their focus? What are some practical things they can do?

How can they train their focus? What are some practical things they can do?

That's such a great question, and I actually think it is I would agree that it is the number one, because aout attention. I don't I don't I don't know how you. I don't know how you follow the right, left, right, left, because I don't know where you're going. You'll let up someplace else. Right? Who is that? Is that Yogi Berrah? Which therefore I believe in goals, but a where attention? To me? The first thing that we have to understand is what's relevant and what's irrelevant. And we have to have the awareness of what's relevant and irrelevant. So in any moment, business, sport, fitness, and any moment, you can stop and you train yourself. So take inventory three times a day. Just stop and look at what you're doing and say, you know, what is what is relevant in this moment, and what are kind of distractions that are irrelevant? So you and I are talking to each other, right, if I see, because there's a window in front of me, if I see somebody walking irrelevant, I have to assign them the irrelevant tag. You are the only relevant person in my life right now, Paul. Right, So we have to do and it's really important to have that because if you make everything a priority, then nothing is a priority. So the first way to train intention is to understand what is relevant and what is irrelevant, with also the understanding that it can change. What was once irrelevant then becomes relevant. And in sport we have this amazing ability to train, Like if you're a golfer, you you know, first things first is you have to kind of scan the environment, have a broad external focus, and then you bring it internal to strategize. So you're no longer looking out now I'm actually assessing what I just saw outside and bring it into my brain. So I'm going internal, narrowing it down, coming up with one strategy, and then you know, then I'm going to again go external but narrow. Am I focusing on the ball, or am I focusing on wearing hit the ball? Or am I just gonna keep it internal and focus on my breath to calm myself down. So you have to be able to train your ability. In performance psychology, there are four different types of concentration there, and it's not a spectrum, right, there's kind of look like like a quadrant. You have the broad and narrow, and then you have the external and internal. So you either are looking broad external scanning the environment, or you know, looking at one thing that would be broad narrow or internal broad kind of just you know, you can like scan your body for any tension. You know, you can do a broad scan but it's internal or maybe I'm just focusing on my breath. Maybe I'm just focusing on my stomach expanding and contracting. Internal narrow. So we have to practice those those things, and you ask me for tactical tools. We one exercise which I like that anybody can do any for any purpose. It's also in mindfulness technique. But just go outside and if you're on you know, a seventeenth floor, just stick your head outside and if you can't really go outside, it's okay, just look around you in house, but just for a moment, tune into your vision what do you see, and then and block out everything else, Everything else is irrelevant. Just your what you see is relevant ten seconds, and then for another moment ten seconds, only focus on what you hear, then only on what you taste, then only on what you feel can esthetically underneath you, and then only what you feel on your skin, you know, for example. So you move from one sense to another sense, and that's training you to tune into what you're deeming irrelevance. That's one way to do it. Another Oh sorry, no, I was.