People often expect their leaders to have all the answers; David Novak built his career by challenging that assumption. On this episode of The McKinsey Podcast, the former CEO and cofounder of Yum! Brands and current chair of Versant speaks with Eric Kutcher, McKinsey’s chair of North America, about the experiences that shaped his leadership—from engaging with front-line franchisees to managing a very public product flop—and how other leaders can learn from them.

Theme music composed, performed, and produced by Joy Ngiaw.