We all go along with things we don't want to do... or worse, things that make us feel uncomfortable or morally uneasy. We comply for lots of reasons. We don't want to make trouble, or upset our friends, our bosses or people in authority. But Dr Sunita Sah says we should be more ready to defy.  

Defy: the Power of No in a World That Demands Yes is one of Dr Laurie's favorite books of 2025, so she invited Sunita to explain how we can say no more often and what that means for improving our happiness. 

(With thanks to the Milgram family for allowing us to use the archive audio in this episode. It's from Stanley Milgram Papers (MS 1406). Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library.) 

We all go along with things we don't want to do... or worse, things that make us feel uncomfortable or morally uneasy. We comply for lots of reasons. We don't want to make trouble, or upset our friends, our bosses or people in authority. But Dr Sunita Sah says we should be more ready to defy.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<a href="https://www.sunitasah.com/defy">Defy: the Power of No in a World That Demands Yes</a> is one of Dr Laurie's favorite books of 2025, so she invited Sunita to explain how we can say no more often and what that means for improving our happiness.&nbsp;
(With thanks to the Milgram family for allowing us to use the archive audio in this episode. It's from Stanley Milgram Papers (MS 1406). Manuscripts and Archives, Yale University Library.)&nbsp;

You might think you know what it takes to lead a happier life… more money, a better job, or Instagram-worthy vacations. You’re dead wrong. Yale professor Dr. Laurie Santos has studied the science of happiness and found that many of us do the exact opposite of what will truly make our lives better. Based on the psychology course she teaches at Yale -- the most popular class in the university’s 300-year history -- Laurie will take you through the latest scientific research and share some surprising and inspiring stories that will change the way you think about happiness.

You might think you know what it takes to lead a happier life… more money, a better job, or Instagram-worthy vacations. You’re dead wrong. Yale professor Dr. Laurie Santos has studied the science of happiness and found that many of us do the exact opposite of what will truly make our lives better. Based on the psychology course she teaches at Yale -- the most popular class in the university’s 300-year history -- Laurie will take you through the latest scientific research and share some surprising and inspiring stories that will change the way you think about happiness.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Why Having the Courage to Defy Makes us Happier (with Dr Sunita Sah)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/d79cb4c3-c4a1-43ce-9825-b34e00b5e27c/transcript

Why is social media so hard to quit? We waste hours scrolling, feel worse when we log off, and still find ourselves going back for more.

Dr. Laurie sits down with Dr. Cass Sunstein, co-author of (00:00:57) Nudge, to explore a new concept from the 2026 World Happiness Report: the “product trap.” Together, they unpack why we keep returning to platforms that make us unhappy — and what it might take to finally break free.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology

Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness

“World Happiness Report 2026”

“The Problem of Social Cost”

“Valuing Facebook”

“The Welfare Effects of Social Media”

“When Product Markets Become Collective Traps: The Case of Social Media”

“Libertarian Paternalism Is Not an Oxymoron”

Why is social media so hard to quit? We waste hours scrolling, feel worse when we log off, and still find ourselves going back for more.
Dr. Laurie sits down with Dr. Cass Sunstein, co-author of (00:00:57) <a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/nudge/id1566099463">Nudge</a>, to explore a new concept from the&nbsp;<a href="https://www.worldhappiness.report/ed/2026/">2026 World Happiness Report</a>: the &ldquo;product trap.&rdquo; Together, they unpack why we keep returning to platforms that make us unhappy &mdash; and what it might take to finally break free.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/technopoly/id436687800">Technopoly: The Surrender of Culture to Technology</a>
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/nudge/id1566099463">Nudge: Improving Decisions About Health, Wealth, and Happiness</a>
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.worldhappiness.report/">World Happiness Report 2026</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sfu.ca/~wainwrig/Econ400/coase-socialcost.pdf">The Problem of Social Cost</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/behavioural-public-policy/article/abs/valuing-facebook/1EB05F025CF85D7DACFE795602C26330">Valuing Facebook</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20190658">The Welfare Effects of Social Media</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.aeaweb.org/articles?id=10.1257/aer.20231468">When Product Markets Become Collective Traps: The Case of Social Media</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://chicagounbound.uchicago.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1184&amp;context=public_law_and_legal_theory">Libertarian Paternalism Is Not an Oxymoron</a>&rdquo;

Why You're Still Using Social Media (Even If You Want to Stop) with Dr. Cass Sunstein

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/593ac43b-479a-4a3e-aeba-b413015cccbe/transcript

Over the past decade, rates of depression and loneliness have surged among young people. Many researchers point to one major change: the rise of smartphones and social media. But what does the data actually show?

Psychologist Jean Twenge has spent years studying how technology shapes adolescent happiness. Dr. Laurie sits down with her to unpack new findings from the 2026 World Happiness Report on how social media use affects teen wellbeing around the world.

What happens when kids spend hours a day on these platforms? Is any amount of social media actually beneficial? And what can we all do to build healthier relationships with our phones, regardless of age?

Resources mentioned in this episode: 

“What is the International Day of Happiness?”

“World Happiness Report 2026”

iGen: Why Today's Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy—and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood

“Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?”

“National Trends in the Prevalence and Treatment of Depression in Adolescents and Young Adults”

“Pew Research Center Mobile Fact Sheet”

“Increases in Depression, Self‐Harm, and Suicide Among U.S. Adolescents After 2012 and Links to Technology Use: Possible Mechanisms”

“The Effects of Social Media Restriction: Meta-Analytic Evidence from Randomized controlled Trials”

“Am I Happier Without You? Social Media Detox and Well-Being: A Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials”

PISA 2022 Database

10 Rules for Raising Kids in a High-Tech World: How Parents Can Stop Smartphones, Social Media, and Gaming from Taking Over Their Children's Lives

“Over 20,000 Educators Share Insights on School Cell Phone Policies”

“Managing Student Digital Distraction in the College Classroom: a Self-Determination Theory Perspective”

Over the past decade,&nbsp;rates&nbsp;of&nbsp;depression and loneliness have surged among young people. Many researchers point to one major change: the rise of smartphones and social media. But what does the data actually show?
Psychologist Jean Twenge has spent years studying how technology shapes adolescent happiness. Dr. Laurie sits down with her to unpack new findings from the <a href="https://www.worldhappiness.report/">2026 World Happiness Report</a> on how social media use affects teen wellbeing around the world.
What happens when kids spend hours a day on these platforms? Is any amount of social media actually beneficial? And what can we all do to build healthier relationships with our phones, regardless of age?
Resources mentioned in this episode:&nbsp;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.un.org/en/observances/happiness-day">What is the International Day of Happiness?</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.worldhappiness.report/">World Happiness Report 2026</a>&rdquo;
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/igen/id1180611517">iGen: Why Today's Super-Connected Kids Are Growing Up Less Rebellious, More Tolerant, Less Happy&mdash;and Completely Unprepared for Adulthood</a>
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/">Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/27940701/">National Trends in the Prevalence and Treatment of Depression in Adolescents and Young Adults</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/internet/fact-sheet/mobile/">Pew Research Center Mobile Fact Sheet</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC9176070/">Increases in Depression, Self‐Harm, and Suicide Among U.S. Adolescents After 2012 and Links to Technology Use: Possible Mechanisms</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666560325000714">The Effects of Social Media Restriction: Meta-Analytic Evidence from Randomized controlled Trials</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC11939267/">Am I Happier Without You? Social Media Detox and Well-Being: A Meta-Analysis of Randomized Controlled Trials</a>&rdquo;
<a href="https://www.oecd.org/en/data/datasets/pisa-2022-database.html">PISA 2022 Database</a>
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/10-rules-for-raising-kids-in-a-high-tech-world/id6743085792">10 Rules for Raising Kids in a High-Tech World: How Parents Can Stop Smartphones, Social Media, and Gaming from Taking Over Their Children's Lives</a>
&ldquo;<a href="https://penntoday.upenn.edu/news/angela-duckworth-over-20000-educators-share-insights-school-cell-phone-policies">Over 20,000 Educators Share Insights on School Cell Phone Policies</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10648-023-09780-y">Managing Student Digital Distraction in the College Classroom: a Self-Determination Theory Perspective</a>&rdquo;

What is Social Media Doing to Kids? with Dr. Jean Twenge

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/5bb66eff-c81d-46f0-835c-b41201048978/transcript

Work doesn’t end when the workday does. Even after we close our laptops, our minds keep replaying awkward meetings, looming deadlines, and unfinished to-do lists. Over time, that “always on” mentality can quietly hijack our relationships, our health, and our happiness.

Dr. Laurie sits down with psychologist and bestselling author Guy Winch (Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life) to explore the science of work stress — and why so many of us get stuck in fight-or-flight mode long after we’ve left the office. 

Plus, Ben Walter, host of “The Unshakeables” and CEO of Chase for Business, shares what he’s learned from working with small business owners who don’t have the option to simply “clock out.”

If you’ve ever felt like work is bleeding into everything, this episode offers science-based tools to help you take your life back.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life

"Burnout: A Review of Theory and Measurement"

"The Relationship Between Workplace Stressors and Mortality and Health Costs in the United States"

"How Small Businesses Drive the American Economy"

"Small Business Facts"

“The Unshakeables”

"Yerkes-Dodson Law Of Arousal And Performance"

“The Use of Imagery to Manipulate Challenge and Threat Appraisal States in Athletes”

“Rebuilding After a Blaze: Luna Gourmet Coffee & Tea”

Work doesn&rsquo;t end when the workday does. Even after we close our laptops, our minds keep replaying awkward meetings, looming deadlines, and unfinished to-do lists. Over time, that &ldquo;always on&rdquo; mentality can quietly hijack our relationships, our health, and our happiness.
Dr. Laurie sits down with psychologist and bestselling author Guy Winch (<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/mind-over-grind/id6747038189">Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life</a>) to explore the science of work stress &mdash; and why so many of us get stuck in fight-or-flight mode long after we&rsquo;ve left the office.&nbsp;
Plus, Ben Walter, host of &ldquo;<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unshakeables/id1725983618">The Unshakeables</a>&rdquo; and CEO of&nbsp;Chase&nbsp;for&nbsp;Business, shares what he&rsquo;s learned from working with small&nbsp;business&nbsp;owners who don&rsquo;t have the option to simply &ldquo;clock out.&rdquo;
If you&rsquo;ve ever felt like work is bleeding into everything, this episode offers science-based tools to help you take your life back.
Resources mentioned in this episode:
<a href="https://books.apple.com/us/book/mind-over-grind/id6747038189">Mind Over Grind: How to Break Free When Work Hijacks Your Life</a>
"<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8834764/">Burnout: A Review of Theory and Measurement</a>"
"<a href="https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/10.1287/mnsc.2014.2115">The Relationship Between Workplace Stressors and Mortality and Health Costs in the United States</a>"
"<a href="https://www.forbes.com/councils/forbesbusinesscouncil/2022/03/25/how-small-businesses-drive-the-american-economy/">How Small Businesses Drive the American Economy</a>"
"<a href="https://advocacy.sba.gov/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Job_Creation_fact_sheet_FINAL_0.pdf">Small Business Facts</a>"
&ldquo;<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-unshakeables/id1725983618">The Unshakeables</a>&rdquo;
"<a href="https://www.simplypsychology.org/what-is-the-yerkes-dodson-law.html">Yerkes-Dodson Law Of Arousal And Performance</a>"
&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/20587822/">The Use of Imagery to Manipulate Challenge and Threat Appraisal States in Athletes</a>&rdquo;
&ldquo;<a href="https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/rebuilding-after-a-blaze-luna-gourmet-coffee-tea/id1725983618?i=1000642623023">Rebuilding After a Blaze: Luna Gourmet Coffee &amp; Tea</a>&rdquo;

How to Stop Work From Taking Over Your Life

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/935138d0-14a2-43b6-b33a-b40c013467a6/transcript

Why Having the Courage to Defy Makes us Happier (with Dr Sunita Sah)

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