Cats have a reputation for being aloof, independent, and sometimes downright indifferent to their human companions. But what if we've been getting cats all wrong?

In honor of National Cat Day, Dr. Laurie is joined by cat behavior expert Dr. Kristyn Vitale to explore the surprising science of our relationships with cats. They unpack what cats really think about their human caregivers, how our feline friends can boost our happiness and wellbeing, and what we can do to make their lives happier, too.

Experts Mentioned:
Kristyn Vitale, Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist and internationally recognized expert in cat behavior and the cat-human relationship
John Bowlby, psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and founder of attachment theory
Mary Ainsworth, developmental psychologist and creator of the Strange Situation assessment
Harry Harlow, University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher and former director of their Primate Laboratory 
Karen McComb, Emeritus Professor of Animal Behaviour and Cognition at the University of Sussex 
Wendy Berry Mendes, Professor of Psychology at Yale University
Mikel Maria Delgado, animal behavioural scientist 

Resources Mentioned:
“Social interaction, food, scent or toys? A formal assessment of domestic pet and shelter cat (Felis silvestris catus) preferences,” by Kristyn Vitale, Lindsay Mehrkam, and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2017)
“The quality of being sociable: The influence of human attentional state, population, and human familiarity on domestic cat sociability,” by Kristyn Vitale and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2019)
“Attachment bonds between domestic cats and humans,” by Kristyn Vitale, Alexandra Behnke, and Monique Udell (Current Biology, 2019)
“The Development of Affectional Responses in Infant Monkeys,” by Harry Harlow and Robert Zimmermann (Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society, 1958)
“Attachment, Exploration, and Separation: Illustrated by the Behavior of One-Year-Olds in a Strange Situation,” by Mary Ainsworth and Silvia Bell (Child Development, 1970)
“Maternal Care and Mental Health,” by John Bowlby (Bulletin of the World Health Organization, 1951)
“The cry embedded within the purr,” by Karen McComb, Anna Taylor, Christian Wilson, Benjamin Charlton (Current Biology, 2009) — Thank you to Professor McComb and her team for letting us include the solution purr audio in this episode!
“Cardiovascular reactivity and the presence of pets, friends, and spouses: the truth about cats and dogs,” by Karen Allen, Jim Blascovich, and Wendy Mendes (Psychosomatic Medicine, 2002)
“Social referencing and cat-human communication,” by Isabella Merola, Martina Lazzaroni, Sarah Marshall-Pescini, and Emanuela Prato-Previde (Animal Cognition, 2015)
“Cats (Felis silvestris catus) read human gaze for referential information,” by Péter Pongrácz, Julianna Szulamit Szapu, and Tamás Faragó (Intelligence, 2019)
“Domestic cats (Felis catus) discriminate their names from other words,” by Atsuko Saito, Kazutaka Shinozuka, Yuki Ito, and Toshikazu Hasegawa (Scientific Reports, 2019) 
“The role of cat eye narrowing movements in cat–human communication,” by Tasmin Humphrey, Leanne Proops, Jemma Forman, Rebecca Spooner, and Karen McComb (Scientific Reports, 2020)
Play with Your Cat!, by Mikel Maria Delgado (2024)
“Cat School” — Youtube channel
“Positive Reinforcement Training Educational Toolkit,” by Feline Veterinary Medical Association (2026) 
Maueyes — Educational resources 

Related Episodes:
“Let Slip the Dogs of More Happiness”
“How Dogs Changed my Life (with The Dogist)”
“‘Birds Are Like My Afternoon Martini’ (Birding with Lili Taylor)”

Cats have a reputation for being aloof, independent, and sometimes downright indifferent to their human companions. But what if we've been getting cats all wrong?
In honor of National Cat Day, Dr. Laurie is joined by cat behavior expert <a href="https://maueyes.com/about-kristynvitale/" data-airgap-id="11">Dr. Kristyn Vitale</a> to explore the surprising science of our relationships with cats. They unpack what cats really think about their human caregivers, how our feline friends can boost our happiness and wellbeing, and what we can do to make their lives happier, too.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://maueyes.com/about-kristynvitale/" data-airgap-id="12">Kristyn Vitale</a>, Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist and internationally recognized expert in cat behavior and the cat-human relationship</li>
<li><a href="https://www.verywellmind.com/john-bowlby-biography-1907-1990-2795514" data-airgap-id="13">John Bowlby</a>, psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and founder of attachment theory</li>
<li><a href="https://www.verywellmind.com/mary-ainsworth-biography-2795501" data-airgap-id="14">Mary Ainsworth</a>, developmental psychologist and creator of the Strange Situation assessment</li>
<li><a href="https://www.verywellmind.com/harry-harlow-biography-1905-1981-2795510" data-airgap-id="15">Harry Harlow</a>, University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher and former director of their Primate Laboratory&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.sussex.ac.uk/profiles/1752" data-airgap-id="16">Karen McComb</a>, Emeritus Professor of Animal Behaviour and Cognition at the University of Sussex&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.yale.edu/people/wendy-berry-mendes" data-airgap-id="17">Wendy Berry Mendes</a>, Professor of Psychology at Yale University</li>
<li><a href="https://mikeldelgado.com/" data-airgap-id="18">Mikel Maria Delgado</a>, animal behavioural scientist&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376635716303424?via%3Dihub" data-airgap-id="19">Social interaction, food, scent or toys? A formal assessment of domestic pet and shelter cat (Felis silvestris catus) preferences</a>,&rdquo; by Kristyn Vitale, Lindsay Mehrkam, and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2017)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376635718300998" data-airgap-id="20">The quality of being sociable: The influence of human attentional state, population, and human familiarity on domestic cat sociability</a>,&rdquo; by Kristyn Vitale and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)31086-3?&amp;" data-airgap-id="21">Attachment bonds between domestic cats and humans</a>,&rdquo; by Kristyn Vitale, Alexandra Behnke, and Monique Udell (Current Biology, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/985597" data-airgap-id="22">The Development of Affectional Responses in Infant Monkeys</a>,&rdquo; by Harry Harlow and Robert Zimmermann (Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society, 1958)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/1127388" data-airgap-id="23">Attachment, Exploration, and Separation: Illustrated by the Behavior of One-Year-Olds in a Strange Situation</a>,&rdquo; by Mary Ainsworth and Silvia Bell (Child Development, 1970)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~eherman/teaching/texts/Bowlby%20Maternal%20Care%20and%20Mental%20Health.pdf" data-airgap-id="24">Maternal Care and Mental Health</a>,&rdquo; by John Bowlby (Bulletin of the World Health Organization, 1951)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26671018_The_cry_embedded_within_the_purr" data-airgap-id="25">The cry embedded within the purr</a>,&rdquo; by Karen McComb, Anna Taylor, Christian Wilson, Benjamin Charlton (Current Biology, 2009) &mdash; Thank you to Professor McComb and her team for letting us include the solution purr audio in this episode!</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12271103/" data-airgap-id="26">Cardiovascular reactivity and the presence of pets, friends, and spouses: the truth about cats and dogs</a>,&rdquo; by Karen Allen, Jim Blascovich, and Wendy Mendes (Psychosomatic Medicine, 2002)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270596973_Social_referencing_and_cat-human_communication" data-airgap-id="27">Social referencing and cat-human communication</a>,&rdquo; by Isabella Merola, Martina Lazzaroni, Sarah Marshall-Pescini, and Emanuela Prato-Previde (Animal Cognition, 2015)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289618300035" data-airgap-id="28">Cats (Felis silvestris catus) read human gaze for referential information</a>,&rdquo; by P&eacute;ter Pongr&aacute;cz, Julianna Szulamit Szapu, and Tam&aacute;s Farag&oacute; (Intelligence, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6449508/" data-airgap-id="29">Domestic cats (Felis catus) discriminate their names from other words</a>,&rdquo; by Atsuko Saito, Kazutaka Shinozuka, Yuki Ito, and Toshikazu Hasegawa (Scientific Reports, 2019)&nbsp;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-73426-0" data-airgap-id="30">The role of cat eye narrowing movements in cat&ndash;human communication</a>,&rdquo; by Tasmin Humphrey, Leanne Proops, Jemma Forman, Rebecca Spooner, and Karen McComb (Scientific Reports, 2020)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0593541332?tag=randohouseinc31339-20" data-airgap-id="31">Play with Your Cat!</a>, by Mikel Maria Delgado (2024)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/CatSchool" data-airgap-id="32">Cat School</a>&rdquo; &mdash; Youtube channel</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://catvets.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Positive-Reinforcement-Training-Educational-Toolkit_Complete.pdf" data-airgap-id="33">Positive Reinforcement Training Educational Toolkit</a>,&rdquo; by Feline Veterinary Medical Association (2026)&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://maueyes.com/educational-resources/" data-airgap-id="34">Maueyes</a> &mdash; Educational resources&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/let-slip-the-dogs-of-more-happiness" data-airgap-id="35">Let Slip the Dogs of More Happiness</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-dogs-changed-my-life-with-the-dogist" data-airgap-id="36">How Dogs Changed my Life (with The Dogist)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/birds-are-like-my-afternoon-martini-birding-with-lili-taylor" data-airgap-id="37">&lsquo;Birds Are Like My Afternoon Martini&rsquo; (Birding with Lili Taylor)</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

The Unexpected Science of Cats and Happiness

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/77ed05dd-e575-40f9-8d7c-b4ee0164caa4/transcript

You might assume that people who study happiness for a living have it all figured out. But even happiness experts struggle to follow their own advice. They know the science behind feeling happier, managing difficult emotions, and building healthier habits — but putting that knowledge into practice is another story. Why is it so hard to do the things we know are good for us?

In a live conversation recorded at SXSW, Dr. Laurie gets personal with her good friend, psychologist Ethan Kross, about the times they've struggled to practice what they preach. Together, they explore the psychological biases that can get in our way and share science-backed strategies for managing difficult emotions, building better habits, and turning that knowledge into action.

Experts Mentioned:
Ethan Kross, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan 
Tamar Gendler, Professor of Philosophy and Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Yale University 
Gabriele Oettingen, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg
Carey Morewedge, Professor of Marketing at Boston University 
Christina Maslach, Professor Emerita of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley
Kristin Neff, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin

ResourcesMentioned:
Shift: Managing Your Emotions — So They Don't Manage You, by Ethan Kross (2025)
Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It, by Ethan Kross (2021)
“Knowing is Half the Battle,” by Laurie Santos and Tamar Gendler (Edge, 2014)
Müller-Lyer Illusion
“Exploring Solomon’s Paradox: Self-Distancing Eliminates the Self-Other Asymmetry in Wise Reasoning About Close Relationships in Younger and Older Adults,” by Igor Grossmann and Ethan Kross (Psychological Science, 2014)
WOOP: Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan
Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)
“Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption,” by Carey Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)
“Forming a flossing habit: an exploratory study of the psychological determinants of habit formation,” by Gaby Judah, Benjamin Gardner, and Robert Aunger (British Journal of Health Psychology, 2013)
How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, by Katy Milkman (2021)
Burnout: The Cost of Caring, by Christina Maslach (1982)
Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, by Kristin Neff (2011)
“Self-Perception Theory,” by Daryl J. Bem (Advances in Experimental Social Psychology, 1972)
“Emotion Controllability Beliefs and Young People's Anxiety and Depression Symptoms: A Systematic Review,” by Matthew Somerville, Helen MacIntyre, Amy Harrison, and Iris Mauss (Adolescent Research Review, 2024)
“Implicit theories of emotion: Affective and social outcomes across a major life transition,” by Maya Tamir, Oliver John, Sanjay Srivastava, and James Gross (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2007)

Related Episodes:
“For Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls”
“Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)”
“Coach Yourself Through a Crisis”
“Don’t Accentuate the Positive”

You might assume that people who study happiness for a living have it all figured out. But even happiness experts struggle to follow their own advice. They know the science behind feeling happier, managing difficult emotions, and building healthier habits &mdash; but putting that knowledge into practice is another story. Why is it so hard to do the things we know are good for us?
In a live conversation recorded at SXSW, Dr. Laurie gets personal with her good friend, psychologist <a href="https://www.ethankross.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Ethan Kross</a>, about the times they've struggled to practice what they preach. Together, they explore the psychological biases that can get in our way and share science-backed strategies for managing difficult emotions, building better habits, and turning that knowledge into action.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.ethankross.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Ethan Kross</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://tamar-gendler.yale.edu/" data-airgap-id="14">Tamar Gendler</a>, Professor of Philosophy and Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Yale University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/gabriele-oettingen.html?challenge=d06e90d7-4d8f-4b88-9d8c-10b73beb60f1" data-airgap-id="15">Gabriele Oettingen</a>, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg</li>
<li><a href="https://www.bu.edu/questrom/profiles/carey-morewedge/" data-airgap-id="16">Carey Morewedge</a>, Professor of Marketing at Boston University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/christina-maslach" data-airgap-id="17">Christina Maslach</a>, Professor Emerita of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley</li>
<li><a href="https://self-compassion.org/kristin-neff/" data-airgap-id="18">Kristin Neff</a>, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FDM3YWCJ?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="19">Shift: Managing Your Emotions &mdash; So They Don't Manage You</a>, by Ethan Kross (2025)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Chatter-Voice-Head-Matters-Harness/dp/0525575243/ref=pd_sbs_d_sccl_1_1/140-6454301-7752957?pd_rd_w=mVewq&amp;content-id=amzn1.sym.0cb10f30-7cd4-4985-9826-58b2c1174c19&amp;pf_rd_p=0cb10f30-7cd4-4985-9826-58b2c1174c19&amp;pf_rd_r=ABMKS3Y0F6YVJXNKHBQ0&amp;pd_rd_wg=RrK7T&amp;pd_rd_r=9a45f829-7310-4fd8-982d-9e756a7ace2d&amp;pd_rd_i=0525575243&amp;psc=1" data-airgap-id="20">Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It</a>, by Ethan Kross (2021)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://edge.org/response-detail/25436" data-airgap-id="21">Knowing is Half the Battle</a>,&rdquo; by Laurie Santos and Tamar Gendler (Edge, 2014)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.illusionsindex.org/i/mueller-lyer" data-airgap-id="22">M&uuml;ller-Lyer Illusion</a></li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614535400" data-airgap-id="23">Exploring Solomon&rsquo;s Paradox: Self-Distancing Eliminates the Self-Other Asymmetry in Wise Reasoning About Close Relationships in Younger and Older Adults</a>,&rdquo; by Igor Grossmann and Ethan Kross (Psychological Science, 2014)</li>
<li><a href="https://woopmylife.org/" data-airgap-id="24">WOOP: Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1617230235?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=372760583920&amp;hvadid=812934654163&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hvcampaign=23946702649&amp;hydadcr=18332_13883056_2506321&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=3252593176508449974--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=197419383573&amp;hvrand=3252593176508449974&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="25">Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation</a>, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1195701?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D28872292537646828261101212917072275688%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1791912116" data-airgap-id="26">Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption</a>,&rdquo; by Carey Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22989272/" data-airgap-id="27">Forming a flossing habit: an exploratory study of the psychological determinants of habit formation</a>,&rdquo; by Gaby Judah, Benjamin Gardner, and Robert Aunger (British Journal of Health Psychology, 2013)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/059308375X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="28">How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be</a>, by Katy Milkman (2021)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/013091231X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="29">Burnout: The Cost of Caring</a>, by Christina Maslach (1982)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061733520?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="30">Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself</a>, by Kristin Neff (2011)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/chapter/bookseries/abs/pii/S0065260108600246" data-airgap-id="31">Self-Perception Theory</a>,&rdquo; by Daryl J. Bem (Advances in Experimental Social Psychology, 1972)</li>
<li><a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38410118/" data-airgap-id="32">&ldquo;Emotion Controllability Beliefs and Young People's Anxiety and Depression Symptoms: A Systematic Review</a>,&rdquo; by Matthew Somerville, Helen MacIntyre, Amy Harrison, and Iris Mauss (Adolescent Research Review, 2024)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2F0022-3514.92.4.731" data-airgap-id="33">Implicit theories of emotion: Affective and social outcomes across a major life transition</a>,&rdquo; by Maya Tamir, Oliver John, Sanjay Srivastava, and James Gross (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2007)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/for-whom-the-alarm-clock-tolls" data-airgap-id="34">For Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/harnessing-people-around-us-to-feel-happier-live-with-ethan-kross" data-airgap-id="35">Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/bonus-coach-yourself-through-a-crisis" data-airgap-id="36">Coach Yourself Through a Crisis</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/dont-accentuate-the-positive" data-airgap-id="37">Don&rsquo;t Accentuate the Positive</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Why Happiness Experts Still Struggle to Be Happy with Dr. Ethan Kross

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/8cb1910d-ce4a-41cb-a219-b4e800146a2a/transcript

For most of human history, we only had one way to talk to one another: our voices. Today, we have more ways to communicate than ever before. We can text, call, send a video message, reach out over social media, et cetera. And we often choose whichever option seems easiest or least awkward. But research suggests that how we choose to communicate matters much more than we realize and can have a surprising impact on how well we understand one another and how connected we feel.

In a live conversation recorded at the World Happiness Summit at SXSW, Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist Nick Epley about the common mistakes we make when communicating in the modern world — and the small changes that could help us connect more meaningfully with the people around us. His new book, A Little More Social, is available now.

Experts Mentioned:
Nicholas Epley, Professor of Behavioral Science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business
Bronisław Malinowski, Polish anthropologist and ethnologist

ResourcesMentioned:
A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection, by Nick Epley (2026)
“Hello, stranger? Pleasant conversations are preceded by concerns about starting one,” by Juliana Schroeder, Donald Lyons, and Nicholas Epley (Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2022)
"The Problem of Meaning in Primitive Languages," by Bronisław Malinowski (1923)
“Is Conversation Magical?,” by Nicholas Epley (Chicago Booth Review, 2026)
“The Humanizing Voice: Speech Reveals, and Text Conceals, a More Thoughtful Mind in the Midst of Disagreement,” by Juliana Schroeder, Michael Kardas, and Nicholas Epley (Psychological Science, 2017)
"Egocentrism over e-mail: can we communicate as well as we think?," by Justin Kruger, Nicholas Epley, Jason Parker, and Zhi-Wen Ng (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2005)
“The Sound of Intellect: Speech Reveals a Thoughtful Mind, Increasing a Job Candidate's Appeal,” by Juliana Schroeder and Nicholas Epley (Psychological Science, 2015)
“It's surprisingly nice to hear you: Misunderstanding the impact of communication media can lead to suboptimal choices of how to connect with others,” by Amit Kumar and Nicholas Epley Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2021)

Related Episodes:
Forget Small Talk: Go Deep Instead
You’re Actually Not Bothering People Enough
Why Giving is a Great Daily Habit
The Surprising Case for Oversharing

For most of human history, we only had one way to talk to one another: our voices. Today, we have more ways to communicate than ever before. We can text, call, send a video message, reach out over social media, et cetera. And we often choose whichever option seems easiest or least awkward. But research suggests that how we choose to communicate matters much more than we realize and can have a surprising impact on how well we understand one another and how connected we feel.
In a live conversation recorded at the World Happiness Summit at SXSW, Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist <a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="11">Nick Epley</a> about the common mistakes we make when communicating in the modern world &mdash; and the small changes that could help us connect more meaningfully with the people around us. His new book, <a href="https://www.amazon.com/s?k=a+little+more+social&amp;hvadid=694133946432&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=4292426935823186958--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=4292426935823186958&amp;hvtargid=kwd-2468185663858&amp;hydadcr=22560_13531255&amp;mcid=595a8d21a90737c8be1ca523ebb39d71&amp;tag=googhydr-20&amp;ref=pd_sl_4f4qjpojxq_e_p67" data-airgap-id="12">A Little More Social</a>, is available now.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Nicholas Epley</a>, Professor of Behavioral Science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business</li>
<li><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/373260727_Malinowski_Bronislaw_K1884-1942" data-airgap-id="14">Bronisław Malinowski</a>, Polish anthropologist and ethnologist</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/s?k=a+little+more+social&amp;hvadid=713511125889&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=1911829651904330065--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=1911829651904330065&amp;hvtargid=kwd-2468185663858&amp;hydadcr=22560_13730715&amp;mcid=595a8d21a90737c8be1ca523ebb39d71&amp;tag=googhydr-20&amp;ref=pd_sl_4f4qjpojxq_e_p67" data-airgap-id="15">A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection</a>, by Nick Epley (2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34618536/" data-airgap-id="16">Hello, stranger? Pleasant conversations are preceded by concerns about starting one</a>,&rdquo; by Juliana Schroeder, Donald Lyons, and Nicholas Epley (Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2022)</li>
<li>"<a href="https://mnytud.arts.unideb.hu/tananyag/szoclingv_alap/malinowski-the_problem_of_meaning_in_primitive_languages.pdf" data-airgap-id="17">The Problem of Meaning in Primitive Languages</a>," by Bronisław Malinowski (1923)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.chicagobooth.edu/review/is-conversation-magical" data-airgap-id="18">Is Conversation Magical?</a>,&rdquo; by Nicholas Epley (Chicago Booth Review, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29068763/" data-airgap-id="19">The Humanizing Voice: Speech Reveals, and Text Conceals, a More Thoughtful Mind in the Midst of Disagreement</a>,&rdquo; by Juliana Schroeder, Michael Kardas, and Nicholas Epley (Psychological Science, 2017)</li>
<li>"<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16393025/" data-airgap-id="20">Egocentrism over e-mail: can we communicate as well as we think?</a>," by Justin Kruger, Nicholas Epley, Jason Parker, and Zhi-Wen Ng (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2005)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/25926479/" data-airgap-id="21">The Sound of Intellect: Speech Reveals a Thoughtful Mind, Increasing a Job Candidate's Appeal,</a>&rdquo; by Juliana Schroeder and Nicholas Epley (Psychological Science, 2015)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32915017/" data-airgap-id="22">It's surprisingly nice to hear you: Misunderstanding the impact of communication media can lead to suboptimal choices of how to connect with others</a>,&rdquo; by Amit Kumar and Nicholas Epley Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2021)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/forget-small-talk-go-deep-instead" data-airgap-id="23">Forget Small Talk: Go Deep Instead</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/youre-actually-not-bothering-people-enough" data-airgap-id="24">You&rsquo;re Actually Not Bothering People Enough</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/why-giving-is-a-great-daily-habit" data-airgap-id="25">Why Giving is a Great Daily Habit</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-surprising-case-for-oversharing" data-airgap-id="26">The Surprising Case for Oversharing</a></li>
</ul>

What Gets Lost When We Text Instead of Talk with Dr. Nick Epley

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/fd14e389-8e82-48ae-b4fe-b4de00f1ef28/transcript

As we move through our busy lives, it’s easy to stop noticing the tiny, beautiful things all around us. But rediscovering the sense of wonder we had as children might not only bring us more joy — it could also help us better navigate life’s hardest moments.

Dr. Laurie explores that idea with traveling philosopher and former NPR correspondent Eric Weiner, author of The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers. Eric shares what he’s learned from walking in the footsteps of Henry David Thoreau, including how the 19th-century philosopher can help us live better in the modern day and see beauty in the things we usually overlook.

Experts Mentioned:
Eric Weiner, journalist, author, and philosophical traveler 
Henry David Thoreau, 19th-century American philosopher, poet, environmental scientist, and political activist 
Socrates, ancient Greek philosopher 
Epicurus, ancient Greek philosopher
Arthur Schopenhauer, 19th-century German philosopher
Ralph Waldo Emerson, 19th-century essayist, poet, and philosopher
Confucius, ancient Chinese philosopher
Nathaniel Hawthorne, 19th-century American novelist and short-story writer
Leslie Perrin Wilson, author and former curator of the Special Collections at the Concord Free Public Library
Henry Miller, American novelist, short-story writer, and essayist

Resources Mentioned:
The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers, by Eric Weiner (2020)
Walden, by Henry David Thoreau (1854)
“Walking,” by Henry David Thoreau (1862)
Bhagavad Gita(second or first century BCE)
The Journal of Henry David Thoreau
“The playful mediator, moderator, or outcome? An integrative review of the roles of play and playfulness in adult-centered psychological interventions for mental health,” by Xiangyou Shen and Leland Masek (The Journal of Positive Psychology, 2024)

Related Episodes:
“Happiness Lessons of The Ancients: Confucius”
“The Science of Attention and Distraction”
“The Power of Awe… and Where to Find it”
“Sight and Sound: How to Joyfully Awaken Your Senses”

As we move through our busy lives, it&rsquo;s easy to stop noticing the tiny, beautiful things all around us. But rediscovering the sense of wonder we had as children might not only bring us more joy &mdash; it could also help us better navigate life&rsquo;s hardest moments.
Dr. Laurie explores that idea with traveling philosopher and former NPR correspondent <a href="https://ericweinerbooks.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Eric Weiner</a>, author of <a href="https://ericweinerbooks.com/books/the-socrates-express/" data-airgap-id="13">The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers</a>. Eric shares what he&rsquo;s learned from walking in the footsteps of Henry David Thoreau, including how the 19th-century philosopher can help us live better in the modern day and see beauty in the things we usually overlook.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://ericweinerbooks.com/" data-airgap-id="14">Eric Weiner</a>, journalist, author, and philosophical traveler&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/thoreau/" data-airgap-id="15">Henry David Thoreau</a>, 19th-century American philosopher, poet, environmental scientist, and political activist&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/socrates/" data-airgap-id="16">Socrates</a>, ancient Greek philosopher&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/epicurus/" data-airgap-id="17">Epicurus</a>, ancient Greek philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/schopenhauer/" data-airgap-id="18">Arthur Schopenhauer</a>, 19th-century German philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/emerson/" data-airgap-id="19">Ralph Waldo Emerson</a>, 19th-century essayist, poet, and philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/confucius/" data-airgap-id="20">Confucius</a>, ancient Chinese philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/nathaniel-hawthorne" data-airgap-id="21">Nathaniel Hawthorne</a>, 19th-century American novelist and short-story writer</li>
<li><a href="https://concordlibrary.org/events/library-news/author-talk-leslie-wilson-former-curator-of-the-special-collections" data-airgap-id="22">Leslie Perrin Wilson</a>, author and former curator of the Special Collections at the Concord Free Public Library</li>
<li><a href="https://www.ndbooks.com/author/henry-miller/" data-airgap-id="23">Henry Miller</a>, American novelist, short-story writer, and essayist</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07Z43RY5J?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="24">The Socrates Express: In Search of Life Lessons from Dead Philosophers</a>, by Eric Weiner (2020)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.gutenberg.org/files/205/205-h/205-h.htm" data-airgap-id="25">Walden</a>, by Henry David Thoreau (1854)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://faculty.washington.edu/timbillo/Readings%20and%20documents/Wilderness/Thoreau%20Walking.pdf" data-airgap-id="26">Walking</a>,&rdquo; by Henry David Thoreau (1862)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.holy-bhagavad-gita.org/index/" data-airgap-id="27">Bhagavad Gita</a> (second or first century BCE)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.walden.org/collection/journals/" data-airgap-id="28">The Journal of Henry David Thoreau</a></li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/17439760.2023.2288955" data-airgap-id="29">The playful mediator, moderator, or outcome? An integrative review of the roles of play and playfulness in adult-centered psychological interventions for mental health</a>,&rdquo; by Xiangyou Shen and Leland Masek (The Journal of Positive Psychology, 2024)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/happiness-lessons-of-the-ancients-confucius" data-airgap-id="30">Happiness Lessons of The Ancients: Confucius</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/dial-d-for-distracted" data-airgap-id="31">The Science of Attention and Distraction</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-power-of-awe-and-where-to-find-it" data-airgap-id="32">The Power of Awe&hellip; and Where to Find it</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/sight-and-sound-how-to-joyfully-awaken-your-senses" data-airgap-id="33">Sight and Sound: How to Joyfully Awaken Your Senses</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Finding the Magic in Everyday Life with Thoreau and Eric Weiner

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/8ad77115-72d1-4faa-a4f1-b4d7013cf0aa/transcript

When we’re exhausted, overworked, or just going through a difficult time, our instinct is often to put our heads down and simply focus on getting through it. But those serious moments may actually be when we benefit from a little silliness and absurdity the most.

Laurie explores the science of humor with comedian Chris Duffy, host of How to Be a Better Human and author of the new book Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy. Chris shares what he’s learned about how to find humor in almost any situation — and how embracing the funny can improve our wellbeing in surprising ways.

Experts Mentioned:
Chris Duffy, comedian, author, and host of How to Be a Better Human
E. B. White, writer and essayist 
Mimi M.Y. Tse, Assistant Professor at The Hong Kong Polytechnic University
Ross Gay, poet, essayist, and Professor of English at Indiana University 
Annie Rauwerda, creator of “Depths of Wikipedia”
Aparna Nancherla, comedian and author
Greg Bryant, Professor of Communication at UCLA
Adam Mastroianni, experimental psychologist and author

Resources Mentioned:
Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy, by Chris Duffy (2026)
How to Be a Better Human, TED podcast hosted by Chris Duffy
“The impression management benefits of humorous self-disclosures: How humor influences perceptions of veracity,” by T. Bradford Bitterly and Maurice Schweitzer (Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 2019)
“The effect of a pratfall on increasing interpersonal attractiveness,” by Elliot Aronson, Ben Willerman, and Joanne Floyd (Human Learning and Thinking, 1966)
“Humor Therapy: Relieving Chronic Pain and Enhancing Happiness for Older Adults,” Mimi Tse, Anna Lo, Tracy Cheng, Eva Chan, Annie Chan, and Helena Chung (Journal of Aging Research, 2010)
The Book of Delights: Essays, by Ross Gay (2019)
Listers: A Glimpse Into Extreme Birdwatching, directed by Owen Reiser (2025)
“Depths of Wikipedia”
“Hello, stranger? Pleasant conversations are preceded by concerns about starting one,” by Juliana Schroeder, Donald Lyons, and Nicholas Epley (Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2022) 
“The Perception of Spontaneous and Volitional Laughter Across 21 Societies,” by Greg Bryant et al. (Psychological Science, 2018)
“Neural substrates of spontaneous musical performance: an FMRI study of jazz improvisation,” by Charles Limb and Allen Braun (PLoS One, 2008)
“Good conversations have lots of doorknobs,” by Adam Mastroianni (Experimental History, 2022)

Related Episodes:
“Laurie Gets a Fun-tervention (Part One)”
“The Surprising Case for Oversharing”
“How To Embrace Imperfection”

When we&rsquo;re exhausted, overworked, or just going through a difficult time, our instinct is often to put our heads down and simply focus on getting through it. But those serious moments may actually be when we benefit from a little silliness and absurdity the most.
Laurie explores the science of humor with comedian Chris Duffy, host of <a href="https://www.ted.com/series/how_to_be_a_better_human" data-airgap-id="11">How to Be a Better Human</a> and author of the new book <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Humor-Me-Laughing-Creative-Connected/dp/0385550685/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.U6HrxtasiMFZl-Z8JpvC98-94qqVPQxzDb1VXcL9M7c5fOf8zZymTWg4Ho9yt1DN61us9x3oJOKQZ-CZihLcYkuI_BPtrdfGsFxEvhBMxPxogkgDNQgbOtwX_8cVAYCJ6rSn8vNI00MprtJAtYwbmgRZ6Y_QTp3X0oPUZnZvQ-0_EDP7n8ppTAQr37-fm7jsjK9NCkipTdeBHsFJhqH49GkO7NS-mWGkhuzdAmJ8GBk.oaCFX_taW-dAU0X5qIcS8OKtkzyMnSnn5hsEywsoskM&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;hvadid=695427272296&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=7308670348439723714--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=7308670348439723714&amp;hvtargid=kwd-2292458302549&amp;hydadcr=15932_13557701&amp;keywords=humor+me+book&amp;mcid=0e7af600ef7237fc84b0f35efebc1931&amp;qid=1790173396&amp;sr=8-1" data-airgap-id="12">Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy</a>. Chris shares what he&rsquo;s learned about how to find humor in almost any situation &mdash; and how embracing the funny can improve our wellbeing in surprising ways.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://docs.google.com/document/u/0/d/1J3UhISUl9UK8gGzbTCvQ7c6BCRLiBsSjPF-JLMDGyWo/edit" data-airgap-id="13">Chris Duffy</a>, comedian, author, and host of <a href="https://www.ted.com/series/how_to_be_a_better_human" data-airgap-id="14">How to Be a Better Human</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/1985/10/02/books/eb-white-essayist-and-stylist-dies.html" data-airgap-id="15">E. B. White</a>, writer and essayist&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mimi-Tse" data-airgap-id="16">Mimi M.Y. Tse</a>, Assistant Professor at The Hong Kong Polytechnic University</li>
<li><a href="https://www.rossgay.net/about" data-airgap-id="17">Ross Gay</a>, poet, essayist, and Professor of English at Indiana University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://annierau.com/" data-airgap-id="18">Annie Rauwerda</a>, creator of &ldquo;<a href="https://www.depthsofwiki.com/" data-airgap-id="19">Depths of Wikipedia</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li><a href="https://aparnacomedy.com/" data-airgap-id="20">Aparna Nancherla</a>, comedian and author</li>
<li><a href="https://comm.ucla.edu/person/greg-bryant-2/" data-airgap-id="21">Greg Bryant</a>, Professor of Communication at UCLA</li>
<li><a href="https://www.adammastroianni.com/" data-airgap-id="22">Adam Mastroianni</a>, experimental psychologist and author</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Humor-Me-Laughing-Creative-Connected/dp/0385550685/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.U6HrxtasiMFZl-Z8JpvC98-94qqVPQxzDb1VXcL9M7c5fOf8zZymTWg4Ho9yt1DN61us9x3oJOKQZ-CZihLcYkuI_BPtrdfGsFxEvhBMxPxogkgDNQgbOtwX_8cVAYCJ6rSn8vNI00MprtJAtYwbmgRZ6Y_QTp3X0oPUZnZvQ-0_EDP7n8ppTAQr37-fm7jsjK9NCkipTdeBHsFJhqH49GkO7NS-mWGkhuzdAmJ8GBk.oaCFX_taW-dAU0X5qIcS8OKtkzyMnSnn5hsEywsoskM&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;hvadid=695427272296&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=7308670348439723714--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=7308670348439723714&amp;hvtargid=kwd-2292458302549&amp;hydadcr=15932_13557701&amp;keywords=humor+me+book&amp;mcid=0e7af600ef7237fc84b0f35efebc1931&amp;qid=1790173396&amp;sr=8-1" data-airgap-id="23">Humor Me: How Laughing More Can Make You Present, Creative, Connected, and Happy</a>, by Chris Duffy (2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.ted.com/series/how_to_be_a_better_human" data-airgap-id="24">How to Be a Better Human</a>, TED podcast hosted by Chris Duffy</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0749597817306325?via%3Dihub" data-airgap-id="25">The impression management benefits of humorous self-disclosures: How humor influences perceptions of veracity</a>,&rdquo; by T. Bradford Bitterly and Maurice Schweitzer (Organizational Behavior and Human Decision Processes, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.3758/BF03342263" data-airgap-id="26">The effect of a pratfall on increasing interpersonal attractiveness</a>,&rdquo; by Elliot Aronson, Ben Willerman, and Joanne Floyd (Human Learning and Thinking, 1966)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21151506/" data-airgap-id="27">Humor Therapy: Relieving Chronic Pain and Enhancing Happiness for Older Adults</a>,&rdquo; Mimi Tse, Anna Lo, Tracy Cheng, Eva Chan, Annie Chan, and Helena Chung (Journal of Aging Research, 2010)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1616207922?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="28">The Book of Delights: Essays</a>, by Ross Gay (2019)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.imdb.com/title/tt38023177/?_ssoLoop=1" data-airgap-id="29">Listers: A Glimpse Into Extreme Birdwatching</a>, directed by Owen Reiser (2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.depthsofwiki.com/" data-airgap-id="30">Depths of Wikipedia</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/34618536/" data-airgap-id="31">Hello, stranger? Pleasant conversations are preceded by concerns about starting one</a>,&rdquo; by Juliana Schroeder, Donald Lyons, and Nicholas Epley (Journal of Experimental Psychology: General, 2022)&nbsp;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30044711/" data-airgap-id="32">The Perception of Spontaneous and Volitional Laughter Across 21 Societies</a>,&rdquo; by Greg Bryant et al. (Psychological Science, 2018)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/18301756/" data-airgap-id="33">Neural substrates of spontaneous musical performance: an FMRI study of jazz improvisation</a>,&rdquo; by Charles Limb and Allen Braun (PLoS One, 2008)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.experimental-history.com/p/good-conversations-have-lots-of-doorknobs" data-airgap-id="34">Good conversations have lots of doorknobs</a>,&rdquo; by Adam Mastroianni (Experimental History, 2022)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/laurie-gets-a-fun-tervention-part-one" data-airgap-id="35">Laurie Gets a Fun-tervention (Part One)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-surprising-case-for-oversharing" data-airgap-id="36">The Surprising Case for Oversharing</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-embrace-imperfection" data-airgap-id="37">How To Embrace Imperfection</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Want More Joy? Try Taking Yourself Less Seriously with Comedian Chris Duffy

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/99fdd902-538a-4102-a69c-b4d00172d2be/transcript

Today we're sharing author Eric Zimmer’s interview with Dr. Laurie on The One You Feed podcast. 

In this episode, Dr. Laurie Santos discusses the importance of taking small steps to happiness and the science of mindful living. She reminds us that happiness is not a destination, but a practice. By understanding the science behind well-being and implementing small, consistent changes, we can learn how to apply these insights to our own lives to find greater joy and fulfillment.

Key Takeaways:
Embrace the power of small, consistent actions in shaping our happiness
Understand how our environment and social connections influence our behavior
Learn the common misconceptions about what truly makes us happy
Discover strategies for overcoming loneliness and building meaningful connections

If you like what you hear, find The One You Feed wherever you get podcasts.

Today we're sharing author Eric Zimmer&rsquo;s interview with Dr. Laurie on <a href="https://www.oneyoufeed.net/" data-airgap-id="11">The One You Feed</a> podcast.&nbsp;
In this episode, Dr. Laurie Santos discusses the importance of taking small steps to happiness and the science of mindful living. She reminds us that happiness is not a destination, but a practice. By understanding the science behind well-being and implementing small, consistent changes, we can learn how to apply these insights to our own lives to find greater joy and fulfillment.
Key Takeaways:
<ul>
<li>Embrace the power of small, consistent actions in shaping our happiness</li>
<li>Understand how our environment and social connections influence our behavior</li>
<li>Learn the common misconceptions about what truly makes us happy</li>
<li>Discover strategies for overcoming loneliness and building meaningful connections</li>
</ul>
If you like what you hear, find The One You Feed wherever you get podcasts.

Small Steps to Happiness: The Science of Mindful Living with Laurie Santos | From The One You Feed

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/e89fe992-b9ce-41c1-8c5a-b4cf011fa7a4/transcript

Most of us are familiar with this frustrating pattern: you set a goal, start off strong, but then lose motivation and end up right back at square one. Why does it seem so hard to change — even when you have a plan in place? Turns out, you may be aiming too high, too soon.

Laurie breaks down the science behind this pattern with Eric Zimmer, host of the award-winning podcast “The One You Feed” and author of the new book How A Little Becomes A Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life. Eric spent years struggling to overcome a heroin addiction before eventually turning his life around. He explains why lasting change often comes from making consistent progress in the right direction rather than attempting one dramatic transformation, and shares what he’s learned about building momentum, overcoming setbacks, and finally reaching the goals we’ve been striving for.

Experts Mentioned:
Eric Zimmer, author and host of “The One You Feed”
Steven Pressfield, author

Resources Mentioned:
How A Little Becomes A Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life, by Eric Zimmer (2026)
“The One You Feed,” hosted by Eric Zimmer 
The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles by Steven Pressfield (2002)

Related Episodes:
"Dump Your Inner Drill Sergeant"
"How to Kick Bad Habits (and Start Good Ones)"
"You Only Live Once… So Commit"

Most of us are familiar with this frustrating pattern: you set a goal, start off strong, but then lose motivation and end up right back at square one. Why does it seem so hard to change &mdash; even when you have a plan in place? Turns out, you may be aiming too high, too soon.
Laurie breaks down the science behind this pattern with <a href="https://www.oneyoufeed.net/about-eric-zimmer/" data-airgap-id="11">Eric Zimmer</a>, host of the award-winning podcast &ldquo;<a href="https://www.oneyoufeed.net/category/featured/" data-airgap-id="12">The One You Feed</a>&rdquo; and author of the new book <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0063420805?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=372720227149&amp;hvadid=813009524573&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hvcampaign=23942094413&amp;hydadcr=18393_13883182_2506261&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=6768543887556236076--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=199045999082&amp;hvrand=6768543887556236076&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="13">How A Little Becomes A Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life</a>. Eric spent years struggling to overcome a heroin addiction before eventually turning his life around. He explains why lasting change often comes from making consistent progress in the right direction rather than attempting one dramatic transformation, and shares what he&rsquo;s learned about building momentum, overcoming setbacks, and finally reaching the goals we&rsquo;ve been striving for.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.oneyoufeed.net/about-eric-zimmer/" data-airgap-id="14">Eric Zimmer</a>, author and host of &ldquo;<a href="https://www.oneyoufeed.net/category/featured/" data-airgap-id="15">The One You Feed</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li><a href="https://stevenpressfield.com/" data-airgap-id="16">Steven Pressfield</a>, author</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0063420805?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=372720227149&amp;hvadid=813009524573&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hvcampaign=23942094413&amp;hydadcr=18393_13883182_2506261&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=6768543887556236076--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=199045999082&amp;hvrand=6768543887556236076&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="17">How A Little Becomes A Lot: The Art of Small Changes for a More Meaningful Life</a>, by Eric Zimmer (2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.oneyoufeed.net/category/featured/" data-airgap-id="18">The One You Feed</a>,&rdquo; hosted by Eric Zimmer&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/The-War-of-Art-Steven-Pressfield-audiobook/dp/B07PTBYH2G/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.lgZ11asrWu6SED87cPivW3hMEwYZgERUGnRjSkYAEYCz8ybEbXI9L4cmWGLh8hYngWocju20shK1F1QVY_kkSRE5rZUQR1H2-EKiN1InTy2CPYSl1YoYLmK5JDa5QqTODRLpbLIvM4OtkpWmKfCPdJ-N0RzGfOBbqpugnKaRr34KGTjEGd3fa_73Di0J91D49eR3AqGOIEpqGt1CNafRrV1fB3T0tM6aZ61fRLzgohc.hdeviY2LPYc4Nvo3JO0tgZV8yq6TYw9SvFS1_Ab2OMA&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;hvadid=792740976374&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=18342432930842640156--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=18342432930842640156&amp;hvtargid=kwd-342894155&amp;hydadcr=15702_13884898&amp;keywords=the+war+of+art&amp;mcid=75f2f1bc00e632eaaa5d168e451585b0&amp;qid=1789750172&amp;sr=8-1" data-airgap-id="19">The War of Art: Break Through the Blocks and Win Your Inner Creative Battles</a> by Steven Pressfield (2002)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>"<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/dump-your-inner-drill-sergeant" data-airgap-id="20">Dump Your Inner Drill Sergeant</a>"</li>
<li>"<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-kick-bad-habits-and-start-good-ones" data-airgap-id="21">How to Kick Bad Habits (and Start Good Ones)</a>"</li>
<li>"<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/you-only-live-once-so-commit" data-airgap-id="22">You Only Live Once&hellip; So Commit</a>"</li>
</ul>

Why Smaller Goals Can Lead to Bigger Changes with Eric Zimmer

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/1bbc6e50-7b04-4877-8c69-b4c9013e0973/transcript

Your brain is changing all the time, whether you realize it or not. Everything from your hobbies and chores to the media you consume can physically shape it. So how can you make sure it’s changing in ways that actually serve you?

Laurie speaks with neuroscientist Dr. Richard Davidson, whose decades of work with the Dalai Lama helped pioneer the scientific study of meditation. Drawing on research with Buddhist monks, stressed-out school teachers, and others, Richie explains why psychological flourishing is a skill we can train, and how simple practices involving awareness, connection, insight, and purpose can help us become more resilient, focused, and fulfilled. His new book, Born to Flourish, is out now.

Experts Mentioned:
Richard Davidson, Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry and Founder and Director of the Center for Healthy Minds at the University of Wisconsin–Madison
Cortland Dahl, Contemplative Scientist at the Center for Healthy Minds at the University of Wisconsin–Madison
14th Dalai Lama, spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism 
Matthieu Ricard, Buddhist monk 
François Jacob, Nobel Prize-winning biologist

Resources Mentioned:
Born to Flourish: How New Science and Ancient Wisdom Reveal a Simple Path to Thriving, by Richard Davidson and Cortland Dahl (2026)
“Neurogenesis in the adult brain: death of a dogma,” by Charles Gordon Gross (Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 2000)
“The book of neurogenesis,” by Matthew Sloan (Harvard Health Publishing, 2021)
“In pursuit of resilience: stress, epigenetics, and brain plasticity,” by Bruce McEwen (Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 2016)
“The plasticity of well-being: A training-based framework for the cultivation of human flourishing,” by Cortland Dahl, Christine Wilson-Mendenhall, and Richard Davidson (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2020)
“Navigation-related structural change in the hippocampi of taxi drivers,” by Eleanor Maguire, David Gadian, Ingrid Johnsrude, Catriona Good, John Ashburner, Richard Frackowiak, and Christopher Frith (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2000)
“Training induces changes in white-matter architecture,” by Jan Scholz, Miriam Klein, Timothy Behrens, and Heidi Johansen-Berg (Nature Neuroscience, 2009)
“Long-term meditators self-induce high-amplitude gamma synchrony during mental practice,” by Antoine Lutz, Lawrence Greischar, Nancy B. Rawlings, Matthieu Ricard, Richard Davidson (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2004)
“A Randomized Controlled Trial of a Smartphone-Based Well-Being Training in Public School System Employees During the COVID-19 Pandemic,” by Matthew Hirshberg, Corrina Frye, Cortland Dahl, Kevin Riordan, Nathan Vack, Jane Sachs, Robin Goldman, Richard Davidson, and Simon B Goldberg (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2022)
“Altered anterior insula activation during anticipation and experience of painful stimuli in expert meditators,” by Antoine Lutz, Daniel McFarlin, David Perlman, Tim Salomons, and Richard Davidson (Neuroimage, 2013)
Healthy Minds Program (meditation app)
“Integrating mindfulness and connection practices into preservice teacher education results in durable automatic race bias reductions,” by Matthew Hirshberg, Lisa Flook, Evan Moss, Robert Enright, and Richard Davidson (Journal of School Psychology, 2022)
“Sitting and Active Meditation Practice: Utilization and Associations with Outcomes in Naturalistic and Clinical Trial Data,” by Simon B Goldberg, Zishan Jiwani, Cortland J Dahl, Raquel Tatar, John D Dunne, Richard J Davidson, Matthew J Hirshberg (Mindfulness, 2026)

Related Episodes:
“How to Find Your Purpose”
“The Power of Awe… and Where to Find It”
“Happiness Lessons of The Ancients: Socrates and Self-Knowledge”
“How to Adopt a Growth Mindset”

Your brain is changing all the time, whether you realize it or not. Everything from&nbsp;your hobbies and chores to the media you consume can physically shape it. So how can you make sure it&rsquo;s changing in ways that actually serve you?
Laurie speaks with neuroscientist <a href="https://www.richardjdavidson.com/" data-airgap-id="10">Dr. Richard Davidson</a>, whose decades of work with the Dalai Lama helped pioneer the scientific study of meditation. Drawing on research with Buddhist monks, stressed-out school teachers, and others, Richie explains why psychological flourishing is a skill we can train, and how simple practices involving awareness, connection, insight, and purpose can help us become more resilient, focused, and fulfilled. His new book, <a href="https://www.amazon.com/Born-Flourish-Science-Ancient-Thriving/dp/1668066238" data-airgap-id="11">Born to Flourish</a>, is out now.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.richardjdavidson.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Richard Davidson</a>, Professor of Psychology and Psychiatry and Founder and Director of the <a href="https://centerhealthyminds.org/" data-airgap-id="13">Center for Healthy Minds</a> at the University of Wisconsin&ndash;Madison</li>
<li><a href="https://cortlanddahl.com/" data-airgap-id="14">Cortland Dahl</a>, Contemplative Scientist at the Center for Healthy Minds at the University of Wisconsin&ndash;Madison</li>
<li><a href="https://www.dalailama.com/" data-airgap-id="15">14th Dalai Lama</a>, spiritual leader of Tibetan Buddhism&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.matthieuricard.org/en/" data-airgap-id="16">Matthieu Ricard</a>, Buddhist monk&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/1965/jacob/biographical/" data-airgap-id="17">Fran&ccedil;ois Jacob</a>, Nobel Prize-winning biologist</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Born-Flourish-Science-Ancient-Thriving/dp/1668066238/ref=sr_1_1?dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.CHFoDDIv-n9u2ZvSZFwFE78KVuGHPt8F0MZajnBjwNwHR_Xc4Bb2bHf7PJqFFlPU7dh3tTXu2kviYmAjOcg2N-Vr8EdiYyodsDMLzbaYOpvNILmL7UjBxve3YfRUSqNc2nfmZ4Cy_q7pLWPilxUXtxrx4vo4M-dfAcULgKsE8_NnuNvtr00WbL9PrYmY2F2wODHiCcoEEtP9Htam-q4QtvbEtvHK-74Ej9_ndTlFnJw.OU_xjilHt6Y8TalD7k99IFI6xJJ3D3ZfLW17bksrrrw&amp;dib_tag=se&amp;hvadid=778077574248&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9060351&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=2134011542470597080--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=2134011542470597080&amp;hvtargid=kwd-2460680050021&amp;hydadcr=20364_13639485&amp;keywords=born+to+flourish+book&amp;mcid=78f677841744347794a3168582b0c1fa&amp;qid=1788969739&amp;sr=8-1" data-airgap-id="18">Born to Flourish: How New Science and Ancient Wisdom Reveal a Simple Path to Thriving</a>, by Richard Davidson and Cortland Dahl (2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11252770/" data-airgap-id="19">Neurogenesis in the adult brain: death of a dogma</a>,&rdquo; by Charles Gordon Gross (Nature Reviews Neuroscience, 2000)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/the-book-of-neurogenesis" data-airgap-id="20">The book of neurogenesis</a>,&rdquo; by Matthew Sloan (Harvard Health Publishing, 2021)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/26919273/" data-airgap-id="21">In pursuit of resilience: stress, epigenetics, and brain plasticity</a>,&rdquo; by Bruce McEwen (Annals of the New York Academy of Sciences, 2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2014859117" data-airgap-id="22">The plasticity of well-being: A training-based framework for the cultivation of human flourishing</a>,&rdquo; by Cortland Dahl, Christine Wilson-Mendenhall, and Richard Davidson (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2020)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.070039597" data-airgap-id="23">Navigation-related structural change in the hippocampi of taxi drivers</a>,&rdquo; by Eleanor Maguire, David Gadian, Ingrid Johnsrude, Catriona Good, John Ashburner, Richard Frackowiak, and Christopher Frith (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2000)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/nn.2412" data-airgap-id="24">Training induces changes in white-matter architecture</a>,&rdquo; by Jan Scholz, Miriam Klein, Timothy Behrens, and Heidi Johansen-Berg (Nature Neuroscience, 2009)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.0407401101" data-airgap-id="25">Long-term meditators self-induce high-amplitude gamma synchrony during mental practice</a>,&rdquo; by Antoine Lutz, Lawrence Greischar, Nancy B. Rawlings, Matthieu Ricard, Richard Davidson (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2004)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36387982/" data-airgap-id="26">A Randomized Controlled Trial of a Smartphone-Based Well-Being Training in Public School System Employees During the COVID-19 Pandemic</a>,&rdquo; by Matthew Hirshberg, Corrina Frye, Cortland Dahl, Kevin Riordan, Nathan Vack, Jane Sachs, Robin Goldman, Richard Davidson, and Simon B Goldberg (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2022)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/23000783/" data-airgap-id="27">Altered anterior insula activation during anticipation and experience of painful stimuli in expert meditators</a>,&rdquo; by Antoine Lutz, Daniel McFarlin, David Perlman, Tim Salomons, and Richard Davidson (Neuroimage, 2013)</li>
<li><a href="https://apple.co/4irVVDP" data-airgap-id="28">Healthy Minds Program</a> (meditation app)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0022440521000881" data-airgap-id="29">Integrating mindfulness and connection practices into preservice teacher education results in durable automatic race bias reductions</a>,&rdquo; by Matthew Hirshberg, Lisa Flook, Evan Moss, Robert Enright, and Richard Davidson (Journal of School Psychology, 2022)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12971069/" data-airgap-id="30">Sitting and Active Meditation Practice: Utilization and Associations with Outcomes in Naturalistic and Clinical Trial Data</a>,&rdquo; by Simon B Goldberg, Zishan Jiwani, Cortland J Dahl, Raquel Tatar, John D Dunne, Richard J Davidson, Matthew J Hirshberg (Mindfulness, 2026)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-find-your-purpose" data-airgap-id="31">How to Find Your Purpose</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-power-of-awe-and-where-to-find-it" data-airgap-id="32">The Power of Awe&hellip; and Where to Find It</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/happiness-lessons-of-the-ancients-socrates-and-self-knowledge" data-airgap-id="33">Happiness Lessons of The Ancients: Socrates and Self-Knowledge</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-adopt-a-growth-mindset" data-airgap-id="34">How to Adopt a Growth Mindset</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

A Neuroscientist’s Guide to Changing Your Brain with Dr. Richard Davidson

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/fc29517e-a701-4125-97fa-b4c2014cbfe4/transcript

When we’re struggling to reach a goal, most of us assume the answer is to buckle down and try harder. But what if all that white-knuckling is actually making things more difficult than they need to be?

Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist Angela Duckworth, best known for her groundbreaking work on grit, about a surprising new approach to achievement. In her new book, Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, Angela explains why changing what’s around us can sometimes be more effective than trying to change ourselves.

Experts Mentioned:
Angela Duckworth, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania 
Lee Ross, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University 
Richard Nisbett, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan 
James Gross, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University 
Adrian Ward, Associate Professor of Marketing at University of Texas at Austin
Joseph Henrich, Professor of Biological Anthropology and Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University
Bob Bowman, Director of Swimming and Diving and Head Men’s Coach at University of Texas at Austin
Martin Seligman, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania
Anders Ericsson, Professor of Psychology at Florida State University
Walter Mischel, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Columbia University
Reinhold Niebuhr, Protestant theologian
Viktor Frankl, Austrian psychiatrist and neurologist

Resources Mentioned:
Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best, by Angela Duckworth (2026)
Grit: The Power and Passion of Perseverance, by Angela Duckworth (2016)
The Person and the Situation: Perspectives on Social Psychology, by Lee Ross and Richard Nisbett (1991)
Frog and Toad Together, by Arnold Lobel (1972)
Man's Search for Meaning, by Viktor Frankl (1946)
“The Serenity Prayer,” by Reinhold Niebuhr
The Art of War, by Sun Tzu
The Golden Rules: 10 Steps to World-Class Excellence in Your Life and Work, by Bob Bowman (2016)
“A Stitch in Time: Strategic Self-Control in High School and College Students,” by Angela Duckworth, Rachel White, Alyssa Matteucci, Annie Shearer, and James Gross (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2016)
“Self-Control and Academic Achievement,” by Angela Duckworth, Jamie Taxer, Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Brian Galla, and James Gross (Annual Review of Psychology, 2019)
“Self-control and SAT outcomes: Evidence from two national field studies,” by Chayce Baldwin, Kyla Haimovitz, Priya Shankar, Robert Gallop, David Yeager, James Gross, and Angela Duckworth (PLoS One, 2022)
“Situational Strategies for Self-Control,” by Angela Duckworth, Tamar Szabó Gendler, and James Gross (Perspectives on Psychological Science, 2016)
“Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity,” by Adrian Ward, Kristen Duke, Ayelet Gneezy, and Maarten Bos. (Journal of the Association for Consumer Research, 2017)
“A 2-Phase Labeling and Choice Architecture Intervention to Improve Healthy Food and Beverage Choices,” by Anne N Thorndike, Lillian Sonnenberg, Jason Riis, Susan Barraclough, and Douglas E Levy (American Journal of Public Health, 2012)
“Innovation in the collective brain,” by Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich (Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, 2016)

Related Episodes:
“Your Environment Affects Your Happiness More Than You Think with Dr. Leidy Klotz”
“How to Spend Your Time and Money Better (with Nobel Prize Winner Richard Thaler)”
“The Man Who Invented Happiness Science: Marty Seligman”
“How Our Screen Habits Impact Our Stress Levels”

When we&rsquo;re struggling to reach a goal, most of us assume the answer is to buckle down and try harder. But what if all that white-knuckling is actually making things more difficult than they need to be?
Dr. Laurie speaks with psychologist Angela Duckworth, best known for her groundbreaking work on grit, about a surprising new approach to achievement. In her new book, <a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/situated" data-airgap-id="11">Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best</a>, Angela explains why changing what&rsquo;s around us can sometimes be more effective than trying to change ourselves.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Angela Duckworth</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://spsp.org/membership/awards/heritage-wall/ross" data-airgap-id="13">Lee Ross</a>, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://lsa.umich.edu/psych/people/emeriti-faculty/nisbett.html" data-airgap-id="14">Richard Nisbett</a>, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Michigan&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://spl.stanford.edu/people/james-gross" data-airgap-id="15">James Gross</a>, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.adrianfward.com/" data-airgap-id="16">Adrian Ward</a>, Associate Professor of Marketing at University of Texas at Austin</li>
<li><a href="https://henrich.fas.harvard.edu/" data-airgap-id="17">Joseph Henrich</a>, Professor of Biological Anthropology and Professor of Human Evolutionary Biology at Harvard University</li>
<li><a href="https://texaslonghorns.com/staff-directory/bob-bowman/1935" data-airgap-id="18">Bob Bowman</a>, Director of Swimming and Diving and Head Men&rsquo;s Coach at University of Texas at Austin</li>
<li><a href="https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/people/martin-ep-seligman" data-airgap-id="19">Martin Seligman</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.fsu.edu/article/k-anders-ericsson-1947-2020-worlds-foremost-expert-expert-performance" data-airgap-id="20">Anders Ericsson</a>, Professor of Psychology at Florida State University</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.columbia.edu/news/memoriam-walter-mischel-psychologist-who-developed-pioneering-marshmallow-test" data-airgap-id="21">Walter Mischel</a>, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at Columbia University</li>
<li><a href="https://kinginstitute.stanford.edu/niebuhr-reinhold" data-airgap-id="22">Reinhold Niebuhr</a>, Protestant theologian</li>
<li><a href="https://viktorfranklamerica.com/viktor-frankl-bio/" data-airgap-id="23">Viktor Frankl</a>, Austrian psychiatrist and neurologist</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/situated" data-airgap-id="24">Situated: Find the People and Places That Bring Out Your Best</a>, by Angela Duckworth (2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.angeladuckworth.com/grit" data-airgap-id="25">Grit: The Power and Passion of Perseverance</a>, by Angela Duckworth (2016)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Person-Situation-Perspectives-Social-Psychology/dp/1905177445/ref=sims_dp_d_dex_popular_subs_t3_v6_d_sccl_1_1/135-5116501-0386104?pd_rd_w=5MqeV&amp;content-id=amzn1.sym.b853d215-90db-49b5-bd69-9909dc4557b0&amp;pf_rd_p=b853d215-90db-49b5-bd69-9909dc4557b0&amp;pf_rd_r=FV8M7PZRSTZVKWQZS56N&amp;pd_rd_wg=9T8IA&amp;pd_rd_r=bcfac8fb-fea4-4498-a791-95ab273da560&amp;pd_rd_i=1905177445&amp;psc=1" data-airgap-id="26">The Person and the Situation: Perspectives on Social Psychology</a>, by Lee Ross and Richard Nisbett (1991)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0064440214?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="27">Frog and Toad Together</a>, by Arnold Lobel (1972)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/s?k=man%27s+search+for+meaning&amp;channelId=500&amp;clpRedir=Y&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="28">Man's Search for Meaning</a>, by Viktor Frankl (1946)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://archives.yalealumnimagazine.com/issues/2008_07/serenity.html" data-airgap-id="29">The Serenity Prayer</a>,&rdquo; by Reinhold Niebuhr</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1494417278?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="30">The Art of War</a>, by Sun Tzu</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/125005950X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="31">The Golden Rules: 10 Steps to World-Class Excellence in Your Life and Work</a>, by Bob Bowman (2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4856169/" data-airgap-id="32">A Stitch in Time: Strategic Self-Control in High School and College Students</a>,&rdquo; by Angela Duckworth, Rachel White, Alyssa Matteucci, Annie Shearer, and James Gross (Journal of Educational Psychology, 2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30609915/" data-airgap-id="33">Self-Control and Academic Achievement</a>,&rdquo; by Angela Duckworth, Jamie Taxer, Lauren Eskreis-Winkler, Brian Galla, and James Gross (Annual Review of Psychology, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36170325/" data-airgap-id="34">Self-control and SAT outcomes: Evidence from two national field studies</a>,&rdquo; by Chayce Baldwin, Kyla Haimovitz, Priya Shankar, Robert Gallop, David Yeager, James Gross, and Angela Duckworth (PLoS One, 2022)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4736542/" data-airgap-id="35">Situational Strategies for Self-Control</a>,&rdquo; by Angela Duckworth, Tamar Szab&oacute; Gendler, and James Gross (Perspectives on Psychological Science, 2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.journals.uchicago.edu/doi/full/10.1086/691462" data-airgap-id="36">Brain Drain: The Mere Presence of One's Own Smartphone Reduces Available Cognitive Capacity</a>,&rdquo; by Adrian Ward, Kristen Duke, Ayelet Gneezy, and Maarten Bos. (Journal of the Association for Consumer Research, 2017)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22390518/" data-airgap-id="37">A 2-Phase Labeling and Choice Architecture Intervention to Improve Healthy Food and Beverage Choices</a>,&rdquo; by Anne N Thorndike, Lillian Sonnenberg, Jason Riis, Susan Barraclough, and Douglas E Levy (American Journal of Public Health, 2012)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://royalsocietypublishing.org/rstb/article/371/1690/20150192/22834/Innovation-in-the-collective-brainInnovation-in" data-airgap-id="38">Innovation in the collective brain</a>,&rdquo; by Michael Muthukrishna and Joseph Henrich (Philosophical Transactions of the Royal Society B, 2016)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/your-environment-affects-your-happiness-more-than-you-think-with-dr-leidy-klotz" data-airgap-id="39">Your Environment Affects Your Happiness More Than You Think with Dr. Leidy Klotz</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-spend-your-time-and-money-better-with-nobel-prize-winner-richard-thaler" data-airgap-id="40">How to Spend Your Time and Money Better (with Nobel Prize Winner Richard Thaler)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-man-who-invented-happiness-science-marty-seligman" data-airgap-id="41">The Man Who Invented Happiness Science: Marty Seligman</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/bonus-good-screens-and-bad-screens" data-airgap-id="42">How Our Screen Habits Impact Our Stress Levels</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Stop Doing Things the Hard Way with Dr. Angela Duckworth

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/14bc163c-5903-4695-9b4f-b4bb01138f13/transcript

It’s hard to focus on wellbeing when we’re expected to work nonstop until retirement. Taking a break from time to time should be a given, not a privilege.

Dr. Laurie works in one of the few industries that recognizes the importance of extended time off. As she begins her own year-long sabbatical from Yale, we’re revisiting her conversation with DJ DiDonna, author of Big Time Off, about what can happen when we step away from work for more than just a vacation.

DJ breaks down how to manage the biggest barriers to taking a sabbatical, from money and workplace optics to family responsibilities. He also explains why extended time off can help us recover from burnout, rethink our routines, and experiment with different versions of ourselves.

Whether you’re contemplating months away or just fantasizing about turning off your email, this episode makes the case that sometimes the best way to move forward is to stop for a while.

Experts Mentioned:
DJ DiDonna, Senior Lecturer of Business Administration at Harvard Business School

Resources Mentioned:
Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One, by DJ DiDonna (2026)
Recover, Explore, Practice: The Transformative Potential of Sabbaticals, by Kira Schabram, Matt Bloom, and DJ DiDonna (Academy of Management Discoveries, 2023)
 The Sabbatical Project

Related Episodes:
“You Can Change”
“Happiness Lessons of the Ancients: The Day of Rest”
“How to be Happier at Work (with Dan Harris)”
“Burnout and How to Avoid It”

It&rsquo;s hard to focus on wellbeing when we&rsquo;re expected to work nonstop until retirement. Taking a break from time to time should be a given, not a privilege.
Dr. Laurie works in one of the few industries that recognizes the importance of extended time off. As she begins her own year-long sabbatical from Yale, we&rsquo;re revisiting her conversation with DJ DiDonna, author of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668060892?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=374045105006&amp;hvadid=812900695866&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hydadcr=10514_13903615_2508665&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=6488983478029249963--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=195298708937&amp;hvrand=6488983478029249963&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="11">Big Time Off</a>, about what can happen when we step away from work for more than just a vacation.
DJ breaks down how to manage the biggest barriers to taking a sabbatical, from money and workplace optics to family responsibilities. He also explains why extended time off can help us recover from burnout, rethink our routines, and experiment with different versions of ourselves.
Whether you&rsquo;re contemplating months away or just fantasizing about turning off your email, this episode makes the case that sometimes the best way to move forward is to stop for a while.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://djdidonna.com/" data-airgap-id="12">DJ DiDonna</a>, Senior Lecturer of Business Administration at Harvard Business School</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668060892?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=374045105006&amp;hvadid=812900695866&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hydadcr=10514_13903615_2508665&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=6488983478029249963--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=195298708937&amp;hvrand=6488983478029249963&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="13">Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One</a>, by DJ DiDonna (2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/full/10.5465/amd.2021.0100" data-airgap-id="14">Recover, Explore, Practice: The Transformative Potential of Sabbaticals</a>, by <a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/amd.2021.0100#" data-airgap-id="15">Kira Schabram</a>, <a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/amd.2021.0100#" data-airgap-id="16">Matt Bloom</a>, and <a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/amd.2021.0100#" data-airgap-id="17">DJ DiDonna</a> (Academy of Management Discoveries, 2023)</li>
<li>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.thesabbaticalproject.org/" data-airgap-id="18">The Sabbatical Project</a></li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/you-can-change" data-airgap-id="19">You Can Change</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/happiness-lessons-of-the-ancients-the-day-of-rest" data-airgap-id="20">Happiness Lessons of the Ancients: The Day of Rest</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-be-happier-at-work-with-dan-harris" data-airgap-id="21">How to be Happier at Work (with Dan Harris)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/burnout-and-how-to-avoid-it" data-airgap-id="22">Burnout and How to Avoid It</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

The Life-Changing Power of a Sabbatical

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/b7c0058c-d25d-4ba5-936b-b4a6013ff981/transcript

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Social links:

Follow the podcast:

281 clip(s)