Technology allows us to bank, shop and dine without talking to another human, but what toll is this taking on our happiness? The inventor of the ATM and the Talking Heads singer David Byrne join Dr Laurie Santos to explore the ways in which talking to strangers can bring us all genuine joy.  

For an even deeper dive into the research we talk about in the show visit https://www.happinesslab.fm/ 

 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Technology allows us to bank, shop and dine without talking to another human, but what toll is this taking on our happiness? The inventor of the ATM and the Talking Heads singer David Byrne join Dr Laurie Santos to explore the ways in which talking to strangers can bring us all genuine joy.  For an even deeper dive into the research we talk about in the show visit <a href="https://www.happinesslab.fm/">https://www.happinesslab.fm/ </a> Learn more about your ad-choices at <a href="https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com">https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com</a>

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Mistakenly Seeking Solitude

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/5c306334-45b0-46f4-96d2-ae32007fc3ed/transcript

We’re still reckoning with the effects of social media on young people’s mental health. Now, with artificial intelligence rapidly becoming part of our everyday lives, we’re at risk of making the same mistakes all over again.

In this live conversation from SXSW EDU, Dr. Laurie is joined by Bruce Reed — head of AI at Common Sense Media and former White House deputy chief of staff — to explore how social media and AI are shaping young people’s happiness and wellbeing, and what parents, educators, and policymakers can do to help kids thrive in an increasingly AI-driven world.

Experts Mentioned:
Jean Twenge, Professor of Psychology at San Diego State University
Bruce Reed, Head of AI at Common Sense Media
Catherine Price, science journalist 
Vivek Murthy, former Surgeon General of the United States
Cass Sunstein, Professor at Harvard Law School
Elizabeth Dunn, Professor of Psychology at the University of British Columbia
Nicholas Epley, Professor of Behavioral Science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business
Michael Inzlicht, Professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto
Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi, Professor of Psychology and Management at Claremont Graduate University and “the father of flow”
Robyn Koslowitz, clinical psychologist and parenting educator
David Yeager, Professor of Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin
Jonathan Haidt, Professor of Business and Society at New York University 
Kristin Neff, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin
Jamil Zaki, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University

Resources Mentioned:
“Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?,” by Jean Twenge (The Atlantic, 2017)
“The Common Sense Census: Media Use by Kids Zero to Eight,” (Common Sense Media, 2025)
How to Break Up with Your Phone, (07:33) by Catherine Price (2018)
“Constant Companion: A Week in the Life of a Young Person's Smartphone Use,” (Common Sense Media, 2023)
“Social Media and Youth Mental Health,” (The U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory, 2023)
“Social media, wasting time, and product traps,” by Cass Sunstein (World Happiness Report, 2026)
“Teens and Mental Health: How Girls Really Feel About Social Media,” (Common Sense Media, 2023)
“Teens and social media: Key findings from Pew Research Center surveys,” by Emily A. Vogels and Risa Gelles-Watnick (Pew Research Center, 2023)
“Scroll With Caution: Another State Requires Social Media Warning Labels,” by Jennifer Vilcarino (Education Week, 2026)
“From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access,” (Reuters, 2026)
“Australia’s Social Media Ban Is Floundering. Can It Still Help Younger Kids?,” by Victoria Kim (The New York Times, 2026)
“Mark Zuckerberg Thinks AI 'Friends' Can Solve The Loneliness Crisis. Here's What AI Experts Think.,” by Brittany Wong (HuffPost, 2025) 
The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness, (32:24) by Jonathan Haidt (2024)
“Social AI Companions Risk Assessment,” (Common Sense Media, 2025)
“Talk, Trust, and Trade-Offs: How and Why Teens Use AI Companions,” (Common Sense Media, 2025)
“A Teen Was Suicidal. ChatGPT Was the Friend He Confided In.,” by Kashmir Hill (The New York Times, 2025)
“How Does Turning to AI for Companionship Predict Loneliness and Vice Versa?,” by Dunigan Folk and Elizabeth Dunn (Psychological Science, 2026)
“Is a random human peer better than a highly supportive chatbot in reducing loneliness over time?,” by Ruo-Ning Li, Dunigan Folk, Abhay Singh, Lyle Ungar, and Elizabeth Dunn (Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 2026)
A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection, by Nicholas Epley (2026)
“The Effort Paradox: Effort Is Both Costly and Valued,” by Michael Inzlicht, Amitai Shenhav, and Christopher Y Olivola (Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 2018)
“The IKEA effect: When labor leads to love,” by Michael Norton, Daniel Mochon, and Dan Ariely (Journal of Consumer Psychology, 2012)
Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience, by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (1990)
“Generation Al: What Kids and Families Think About Al,” (Common Sense Media, 2026)
“Collaborative Problem Solving reduces children's emotional and behavioral difficulties and parenting stress: Two key mechanisms,” by Georgina Heath, Christopher Fife-Schaw, Lu Wang, Christopher Eddy, Michael Hone, Alisha Pollastri (Journal of Clinical Psychology, 2020)
10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People, (30:52) by David Yeager (2024)
The Amazing Generation: Your Guide to Fun and Freedom in a Screen-Filled World, (32:21) by Jonathan Haidt and Catherine Price (2025)
“The benefits of radical acceptance of reality as a standalone strategy for emotion regulation,” by Or Segal, Karin Bronshtein, and Noam Weinbach (Current Psychology, 2025)
Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, by Kristin Neff (2011)
Hope for Cynics: The Surprising Science of Human Goodness, (40:38) by Jamil Zaki (2024)

Related Episodes:
“What is Social Media Doing to Kids? with Dr. Jean Twenge”
“Why You’re Still Using Social Media (Even If You Want to Stop) with Dr. Cass Sunstein”
“Reducing the Stress of Parenting with Dr Vivek Murthy”
“How Smartphones Changed Childhood (And What to do About it)”
“How to Think Like a Child (with David Yeager)”

We&rsquo;re still reckoning with the effects of social media on young people&rsquo;s mental health. Now, with artificial intelligence rapidly becoming part of our everyday lives, we&rsquo;re at risk of making the same mistakes all over again.
In this live conversation from SXSW EDU, Dr. Laurie is joined by Bruce Reed &mdash; head of AI at&nbsp;<a href="https://www.commonsensemedia.org/" data-airgap-id="11">Common Sense Media</a> and former White House deputy chief of staff &mdash;&nbsp;to explore how social media and AI are shaping young people&rsquo;s happiness and wellbeing, and what parents, educators, and policymakers can do to help kids thrive in an increasingly AI-driven world.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.jeantwenge.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Jean Twenge</a>, Professor of Psychology at San Diego State University</li>
<li><a href="https://www.linkedin.com/in/bruce-reed-9a88a594" data-airgap-id="13">Bruce Reed</a>, Head of AI at Common Sense Media</li>
<li><a href="https://catherineprice.com/" data-airgap-id="14">Catherine Price</a>, science journalist&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.vivekmurthy.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Vivek Murthy</a>, former Surgeon General of the United States</li>
<li><a href="https://hls.harvard.edu/faculty/cass-r-sunstein/" data-airgap-id="16">Cass Sunstein</a>, Professor at Harvard Law School</li>
<li><a href="https://psych.ubc.ca/profile/elizabeth-dunn/" data-airgap-id="17">Elizabeth Dunn</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of British Columbia</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="18">Nicholas Epley</a>, Professor of Behavioral Science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business</li>
<li><a href="https://michaelinzlicht.com/#lab-view" data-airgap-id="19">Michael Inzlicht</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/27/science/mihaly-csikszentmihalyi-dead.html" data-airgap-id="20">Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi</a>, Professor of Psychology and Management at Claremont Graduate University and &ldquo;the father of flow&rdquo;</li>
<li><a href="https://drrobynkoslowitz.com/about/" data-airgap-id="21">Robyn Koslowitz</a>, clinical psychologist and parenting educator</li>
<li><a href="https://liberalarts.utexas.edu/prc/faculty/yeagerds" data-airgap-id="22">David Yeager</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin</li>
<li><a href="https://www.stern.nyu.edu/faculty/bio/jonathan-haidt" data-airgap-id="23">Jonathan Haidt</a>, Professor of Business and Society at New York University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://self-compassion.org/" data-airgap-id="24">Kristin Neff</a>, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin</li>
<li><a href="https://www.jamil-zaki.com/" data-airgap-id="25">Jamil Zaki</a>, Professor of Psychology at Stanford University</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2017/09/has-the-smartphone-destroyed-a-generation/534198/" data-airgap-id="26">Have Smartphones Destroyed a Generation?</a>,&rdquo; by Jean Twenge (The Atlantic, 2017)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/report/2025-common-sense-census-web-2.pdf" data-airgap-id="27">The Common Sense Census: Media Use by Kids Zero to Eight</a>,&rdquo; (Common Sense Media, 2025)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/780895/how-to-break-up-with-your-phone-revised-edition-by-catherine-price/" data-airgap-id="28">How to Break Up with Your Phone</a>, (07:33) by Catherine Price (2018)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/report/2023-cs-smartphone-research-report_final-for-web.pdf" data-airgap-id="29">Constant Companion: A Week in the Life of a Young Person's Smartphone Use</a>,&rdquo; (Common Sense Media, 2023)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/sg-youth-mental-health-social-media-advisory.pdf" data-airgap-id="30">Social Media and Youth Mental Health</a>,&rdquo; (The U.S. Surgeon General&rsquo;s Advisory, 2023)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://ora.ox.ac.uk/objects/uuid:be126f9f-5de8-4e58-aeb6-f5c1fa5e256d/files/sjw827f322" data-airgap-id="31">Social media, wasting time, and product traps</a>,&rdquo; by Cass Sunstein (World Happiness Report, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/report/how-girls-really-feel-about-social-media-researchreport_web_final_2.pdf" data-airgap-id="32">Teens and Mental Health: How Girls Really Feel About Social Media</a>,&rdquo; (Common Sense Media, 2023)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/04/24/teens-and-social-media-key-findings-from-pew-research-center-surveys/" data-airgap-id="33">Teens and social media: Key findings from Pew Research Center surveys</a>,&rdquo; by Emily A. Vogels and Risa Gelles-Watnick (Pew Research Center, 2023)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.edweek.org/policy-politics/scroll-with-caution-another-state-requires-social-media-warning-labels/2026/01" data-airgap-id="34">Scroll With Caution: Another State Requires Social Media Warning Labels</a>,&rdquo; by Jennifer Vilcarino (Education Week, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.reuters.com/legal/government/australia-europe-countries-move-curb-childrens-social-media-access-2026-09-17/" data-airgap-id="35">From Australia to Europe, countries move to curb children's social media access</a>,&rdquo; (Reuters, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2026/06/10/world/australia/australia-social-media-ban-under-16.html" data-airgap-id="36">Australia&rsquo;s Social Media Ban Is Floundering. Can It Still Help Younger Kids?</a>,&rdquo; by Victoria Kim (The New York Times, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.huffpost.com/entry/mark-zuckerberg-on-ai-friendships_l_681a4bf3e4b0c2b15d96851d" data-airgap-id="37">Mark Zuckerberg Thinks AI 'Friends' Can Solve The Loneliness Crisis. Here's What AI Experts Think.</a>,&rdquo; by Brittany Wong (HuffPost, 2025)&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593655036?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="38">The Anxious Generation: How the Great Rewiring of Childhood Is Causing an Epidemic of Mental Illness</a>, (32:24) by Jonathan Haidt (2024)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/pug/csm-ai-risk-assessment-social-ai-companions_final.pdf" data-airgap-id="39">Social AI Companions Risk Assessment</a>,&rdquo; (Common Sense Media, 2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/report/talk-trust-and-trade-offs_2025_web.pdf" data-airgap-id="40">Talk, Trust, and Trade-Offs: How and Why Teens Use AI Companions</a>,&rdquo; (Common Sense Media, 2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/26/technology/chatgpt-openai-suicide.html" data-airgap-id="41">A Teen Was Suicidal. ChatGPT Was the Friend He Confided In.</a>,&rdquo; by Kashmir Hill (The New York Times, 2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/09567976261427747" data-airgap-id="42">How Does Turning to AI for Companionship Predict Loneliness and Vice Versa?</a>,&rdquo; by Dunigan Folk and Elizabeth Dunn (Psychological Science, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022103126000417" data-airgap-id="43">Is a random human peer better than a highly supportive chatbot in reducing loneliness over time?</a>,&rdquo; by Ruo-Ning Li, Dunigan Folk, Abhay Singh, Lyle Ungar, and Elizabeth Dunn (Journal of Experimental Social Psychology, 2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://sites.prh.com/a-little-more-social" data-airgap-id="44">A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection</a>, by Nicholas Epley (2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29477776/" data-airgap-id="45">The Effort Paradox: Effort Is Both Costly and Valued</a>,&rdquo; by Michael Inzlicht, Amitai Shenhav, and Christopher Y Olivola (Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 2018)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1057740811000829" data-airgap-id="46">The IKEA effect: When labor leads to love</a>,&rdquo; by Michael Norton, Daniel Mochon, and Dan Ariely (Journal of Consumer Psychology, 2012)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061339202?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="47">Flow: The Psychology of Optimal Experience</a>, by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi (1990)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.commonsensemedia.org/sites/default/files/research/report/commonsensemedia_generationai.pdf" data-airgap-id="48">Generation Al: What Kids and Families Think About Al</a>,&rdquo; (Common Sense Media, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/32107782/" data-airgap-id="49">Collaborative Problem Solving reduces children's emotional and behavioral difficulties and parenting stress: Two key mechanisms</a>,&rdquo; by Georgina Heath, Christopher Fife-Schaw, Lu Wang, Christopher Eddy, Michael Hone, Alisha Pollastri (Journal of Clinical Psychology, 2020)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668023881?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="50">10 to 25: The Science of Motivating Young People</a>, (30:52) by David Yeager (2024)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/797271/the-amazing-generation-by-jonathan-haidt-and-catherine-price-illustrated-by-cynthia-yuan-cheng/" data-airgap-id="51">The Amazing Generation: Your Guide to Fun and Freedom in a Screen-Filled World</a>, (32:21) by Jonathan Haidt and Catherine Price (2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s12144-025-07286-0" data-airgap-id="52">The benefits of radical acceptance of reality as a standalone strategy for emotion regulation</a>,&rdquo; by Or Segal, Karin Bronshtein, and Noam Weinbach (Current Psychology, 2025)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061733520?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="53">Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself</a>, by Kristin Neff (2011)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.jamil-zaki.com/hope-for-cynics" data-airgap-id="54">Hope for Cynics: The Surprising Science of Human Goodness</a>, (40:38) by Jamil Zaki (2024)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/what-is-social-media-doing-to-kids-with-dr-jean-twenge" data-airgap-id="55">What is Social Media Doing to Kids? with Dr. Jean Twenge</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/why-youre-still-using-social-media-even-if-you-want-to-stop-with-dr-cass-sunstein" data-airgap-id="56">Why You&rsquo;re Still Using Social Media (Even If You Want to Stop) with Dr. Cass Sunstein</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/reducing-the-stress-of-parenting-with-dr-vivek-murthy" data-airgap-id="57">Reducing the Stress of Parenting with Dr Vivek Murthy</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-smartphones-changed-childhood-and-what-to-do-about-it" data-airgap-id="58">How Smartphones Changed Childhood (And What to do About it)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-think-like-a-child-with-david-yeager" data-airgap-id="59">How to Think Like a Child (with David Yeager)</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

AI Is the New Social Media. Can We Protect Kids This Time?

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/45ef5480-e8f2-45c2-ae8d-b4f5017a8880/transcript

Cats have a reputation for being aloof, independent, and sometimes downright indifferent to their human companions. But what if we've been getting cats all wrong?

In honor of National Cat Day, Dr. Laurie is joined by cat behavior expert Dr. Kristyn Vitale to explore the surprising science of our relationships with cats. They unpack what cats really think about their human caregivers, how our feline friends can boost our happiness and wellbeing, and what we can do to make their lives happier, too.

Experts Mentioned:
Kristyn Vitale, Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist and internationally recognized expert in cat behavior and the cat-human relationship
John Bowlby, psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and founder of attachment theory
Mary Ainsworth, developmental psychologist and creator of the Strange Situation assessment
Harry Harlow, University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher and former director of their Primate Laboratory 
Karen McComb, Emeritus Professor of Animal Behaviour and Cognition at the University of Sussex 
Wendy Berry Mendes, Professor of Psychology at Yale University
Mikel Maria Delgado, animal behavioural scientist 

Resources Mentioned:
“Social interaction, food, scent or toys? A formal assessment of domestic pet and shelter cat (Felis silvestris catus) preferences,” by Kristyn Vitale, Lindsay Mehrkam, and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2017)
“The quality of being sociable: The influence of human attentional state, population, and human familiarity on domestic cat sociability,” by Kristyn Vitale and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2019)
“Attachment bonds between domestic cats and humans,” by Kristyn Vitale, Alexandra Behnke, and Monique Udell (Current Biology, 2019)
“The Development of Affectional Responses in Infant Monkeys,” by Harry Harlow and Robert Zimmermann (Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society, 1958)
“Attachment, Exploration, and Separation: Illustrated by the Behavior of One-Year-Olds in a Strange Situation,” by Mary Ainsworth and Silvia Bell (Child Development, 1970)
“Maternal Care and Mental Health,” by John Bowlby (Bulletin of the World Health Organization, 1951)
“The cry embedded within the purr,” by Karen McComb, Anna Taylor, Christian Wilson, Benjamin Charlton (Current Biology, 2009) — Thank you to Professor McComb and her team for letting us include the solution purr audio in this episode!
“Cardiovascular reactivity and the presence of pets, friends, and spouses: the truth about cats and dogs,” by Karen Allen, Jim Blascovich, and Wendy Mendes (Psychosomatic Medicine, 2002)
“Social referencing and cat-human communication,” by Isabella Merola, Martina Lazzaroni, Sarah Marshall-Pescini, and Emanuela Prato-Previde (Animal Cognition, 2015)
“Cats (Felis silvestris catus) read human gaze for referential information,” by Péter Pongrácz, Julianna Szulamit Szapu, and Tamás Faragó (Intelligence, 2019)
“Domestic cats (Felis catus) discriminate their names from other words,” by Atsuko Saito, Kazutaka Shinozuka, Yuki Ito, and Toshikazu Hasegawa (Scientific Reports, 2019) 
“The role of cat eye narrowing movements in cat–human communication,” by Tasmin Humphrey, Leanne Proops, Jemma Forman, Rebecca Spooner, and Karen McComb (Scientific Reports, 2020)
Play with Your Cat!, by Mikel Maria Delgado (2024)
“Cat School” — Youtube channel
“Positive Reinforcement Training Educational Toolkit,” by Feline Veterinary Medical Association (2026) 
Maueyes — Educational resources 

Related Episodes:
“Let Slip the Dogs of More Happiness”
“How Dogs Changed my Life (with The Dogist)”
“‘Birds Are Like My Afternoon Martini’ (Birding with Lili Taylor)”

Cats have a reputation for being aloof, independent, and sometimes downright indifferent to their human companions. But what if we've been getting cats all wrong?
In honor of National Cat Day, Dr. Laurie is joined by cat behavior expert <a href="https://maueyes.com/about-kristynvitale/" data-airgap-id="11">Dr. Kristyn Vitale</a> to explore the surprising science of our relationships with cats. They unpack what cats really think about their human caregivers, how our feline friends can boost our happiness and wellbeing, and what we can do to make their lives happier, too.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://maueyes.com/about-kristynvitale/" data-airgap-id="12">Kristyn Vitale</a>, Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist and internationally recognized expert in cat behavior and the cat-human relationship</li>
<li><a href="https://www.verywellmind.com/john-bowlby-biography-1907-1990-2795514" data-airgap-id="13">John Bowlby</a>, psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and founder of attachment theory</li>
<li><a href="https://www.verywellmind.com/mary-ainsworth-biography-2795501" data-airgap-id="14">Mary Ainsworth</a>, developmental psychologist and creator of the Strange Situation assessment</li>
<li><a href="https://www.verywellmind.com/harry-harlow-biography-1905-1981-2795510" data-airgap-id="15">Harry Harlow</a>, University of Wisconsin-Madison researcher and former director of their Primate Laboratory&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.sussex.ac.uk/profiles/1752" data-airgap-id="16">Karen McComb</a>, Emeritus Professor of Animal Behaviour and Cognition at the University of Sussex&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.yale.edu/people/wendy-berry-mendes" data-airgap-id="17">Wendy Berry Mendes</a>, Professor of Psychology at Yale University</li>
<li><a href="https://mikeldelgado.com/" data-airgap-id="18">Mikel Maria Delgado</a>, animal behavioural scientist&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376635716303424?via%3Dihub" data-airgap-id="19">Social interaction, food, scent or toys? A formal assessment of domestic pet and shelter cat (Felis silvestris catus) preferences</a>,&rdquo; by Kristyn Vitale, Lindsay Mehrkam, and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2017)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0376635718300998" data-airgap-id="20">The quality of being sociable: The influence of human attentional state, population, and human familiarity on domestic cat sociability</a>,&rdquo; by Kristyn Vitale and Monique Udell (Behavioural Processes, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.cell.com/current-biology/fulltext/S0960-9822(19)31086-3?&amp;" data-airgap-id="21">Attachment bonds between domestic cats and humans</a>,&rdquo; by Kristyn Vitale, Alexandra Behnke, and Monique Udell (Current Biology, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/985597" data-airgap-id="22">The Development of Affectional Responses in Infant Monkeys</a>,&rdquo; by Harry Harlow and Robert Zimmermann (Proceedings of the American Philosophical Society, 1958)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.jstor.org/stable/1127388" data-airgap-id="23">Attachment, Exploration, and Separation: Illustrated by the Behavior of One-Year-Olds in a Strange Situation</a>,&rdquo; by Mary Ainsworth and Silvia Bell (Child Development, 1970)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://darkwing.uoregon.edu/~eherman/teaching/texts/Bowlby%20Maternal%20Care%20and%20Mental%20Health.pdf" data-airgap-id="24">Maternal Care and Mental Health</a>,&rdquo; by John Bowlby (Bulletin of the World Health Organization, 1951)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/26671018_The_cry_embedded_within_the_purr" data-airgap-id="25">The cry embedded within the purr</a>,&rdquo; by Karen McComb, Anna Taylor, Christian Wilson, Benjamin Charlton (Current Biology, 2009) &mdash; Thank you to Professor McComb and her team for letting us include the solution purr audio in this episode!</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12271103/" data-airgap-id="26">Cardiovascular reactivity and the presence of pets, friends, and spouses: the truth about cats and dogs</a>,&rdquo; by Karen Allen, Jim Blascovich, and Wendy Mendes (Psychosomatic Medicine, 2002)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.researchgate.net/publication/270596973_Social_referencing_and_cat-human_communication" data-airgap-id="27">Social referencing and cat-human communication</a>,&rdquo; by Isabella Merola, Martina Lazzaroni, Sarah Marshall-Pescini, and Emanuela Prato-Previde (Animal Cognition, 2015)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0160289618300035" data-airgap-id="28">Cats (Felis silvestris catus) read human gaze for referential information</a>,&rdquo; by P&eacute;ter Pongr&aacute;cz, Julianna Szulamit Szapu, and Tam&aacute;s Farag&oacute; (Intelligence, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6449508/" data-airgap-id="29">Domestic cats (Felis catus) discriminate their names from other words</a>,&rdquo; by Atsuko Saito, Kazutaka Shinozuka, Yuki Ito, and Toshikazu Hasegawa (Scientific Reports, 2019)&nbsp;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-020-73426-0" data-airgap-id="30">The role of cat eye narrowing movements in cat&ndash;human communication</a>,&rdquo; by Tasmin Humphrey, Leanne Proops, Jemma Forman, Rebecca Spooner, and Karen McComb (Scientific Reports, 2020)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0593541332?tag=randohouseinc31339-20" data-airgap-id="31">Play with Your Cat!</a>, by Mikel Maria Delgado (2024)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/c/CatSchool" data-airgap-id="32">Cat School</a>&rdquo; &mdash; Youtube channel</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://catvets.com/wp-content/uploads/2026/01/Positive-Reinforcement-Training-Educational-Toolkit_Complete.pdf" data-airgap-id="33">Positive Reinforcement Training Educational Toolkit</a>,&rdquo; by Feline Veterinary Medical Association (2026)&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://maueyes.com/educational-resources/" data-airgap-id="34">Maueyes</a> &mdash; Educational resources&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/let-slip-the-dogs-of-more-happiness" data-airgap-id="35">Let Slip the Dogs of More Happiness</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-dogs-changed-my-life-with-the-dogist" data-airgap-id="36">How Dogs Changed my Life (with The Dogist)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/birds-are-like-my-afternoon-martini-birding-with-lili-taylor" data-airgap-id="37">&lsquo;Birds Are Like My Afternoon Martini&rsquo; (Birding with Lili Taylor)</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

The Unexpected Science of Cats and Happiness

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/77ed05dd-e575-40f9-8d7c-b4ee0164caa4/transcript

You might assume that people who study happiness for a living have it all figured out. But even happiness experts struggle to follow their own advice. They know the science behind feeling happier, managing difficult emotions, and building healthier habits — but putting that knowledge into practice is another story. Why is it so hard to do the things we know are good for us?

In a live conversation recorded at SXSW, Dr. Laurie gets personal with her good friend, psychologist Ethan Kross, about the times they've struggled to practice what they preach. Together, they explore the psychological biases that can get in our way and share science-backed strategies for managing difficult emotions, building better habits, and turning that knowledge into action.

Experts Mentioned:
Ethan Kross, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan 
Tamar Gendler, Professor of Philosophy and Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Yale University 
Gabriele Oettingen, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg
Carey Morewedge, Professor of Marketing at Boston University 
Christina Maslach, Professor Emerita of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley
Kristin Neff, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin

ResourcesMentioned:
Shift: Managing Your Emotions — So They Don't Manage You, by Ethan Kross (2025)
Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It, by Ethan Kross (2021)
“Knowing is Half the Battle,” by Laurie Santos and Tamar Gendler (Edge, 2014)
Müller-Lyer Illusion
“Exploring Solomon’s Paradox: Self-Distancing Eliminates the Self-Other Asymmetry in Wise Reasoning About Close Relationships in Younger and Older Adults,” by Igor Grossmann and Ethan Kross (Psychological Science, 2014)
WOOP: Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan
Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)
“Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption,” by Carey Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)
“Forming a flossing habit: an exploratory study of the psychological determinants of habit formation,” by Gaby Judah, Benjamin Gardner, and Robert Aunger (British Journal of Health Psychology, 2013)
How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be, by Katy Milkman (2021)
Burnout: The Cost of Caring, by Christina Maslach (1982)
Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself, by Kristin Neff (2011)
“Self-Perception Theory,” by Daryl J. Bem (Advances in Experimental Social Psychology, 1972)
“Emotion Controllability Beliefs and Young People's Anxiety and Depression Symptoms: A Systematic Review,” by Matthew Somerville, Helen MacIntyre, Amy Harrison, and Iris Mauss (Adolescent Research Review, 2024)
“Implicit theories of emotion: Affective and social outcomes across a major life transition,” by Maya Tamir, Oliver John, Sanjay Srivastava, and James Gross (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2007)

Related Episodes:
“For Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls”
“Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)”
“Coach Yourself Through a Crisis”
“Don’t Accentuate the Positive”

You might assume that people who study happiness for a living have it all figured out. But even happiness experts struggle to follow their own advice. They know the science behind feeling happier, managing difficult emotions, and building healthier habits &mdash; but putting that knowledge into practice is another story. Why is it so hard to do the things we know are good for us?
In a live conversation recorded at SXSW, Dr. Laurie gets personal with her good friend, psychologist <a href="https://www.ethankross.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Ethan Kross</a>, about the times they've struggled to practice what they preach. Together, they explore the psychological biases that can get in our way and share science-backed strategies for managing difficult emotions, building better habits, and turning that knowledge into action.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.ethankross.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Ethan Kross</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Michigan&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://tamar-gendler.yale.edu/" data-airgap-id="14">Tamar Gendler</a>, Professor of Philosophy and Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Yale University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://as.nyu.edu/faculty/gabriele-oettingen.html?challenge=d06e90d7-4d8f-4b88-9d8c-10b73beb60f1" data-airgap-id="15">Gabriele Oettingen</a>, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg</li>
<li><a href="https://www.bu.edu/questrom/profiles/carey-morewedge/" data-airgap-id="16">Carey Morewedge</a>, Professor of Marketing at Boston University&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/christina-maslach" data-airgap-id="17">Christina Maslach</a>, Professor Emerita of Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley</li>
<li><a href="https://self-compassion.org/kristin-neff/" data-airgap-id="18">Kristin Neff</a>, Associate Professor of Educational Psychology at the University of Texas at Austin</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0FDM3YWCJ?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="19">Shift: Managing Your Emotions &mdash; So They Don't Manage You</a>, by Ethan Kross (2025)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Chatter-Voice-Head-Matters-Harness/dp/0525575243/ref=pd_sbs_d_sccl_1_1/140-6454301-7752957?pd_rd_w=mVewq&amp;content-id=amzn1.sym.0cb10f30-7cd4-4985-9826-58b2c1174c19&amp;pf_rd_p=0cb10f30-7cd4-4985-9826-58b2c1174c19&amp;pf_rd_r=ABMKS3Y0F6YVJXNKHBQ0&amp;pd_rd_wg=RrK7T&amp;pd_rd_r=9a45f829-7310-4fd8-982d-9e756a7ace2d&amp;pd_rd_i=0525575243&amp;psc=1" data-airgap-id="20">Chatter: The Voice in Our Head, Why It Matters, and How to Harness It</a>, by Ethan Kross (2021)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://edge.org/response-detail/25436" data-airgap-id="21">Knowing is Half the Battle</a>,&rdquo; by Laurie Santos and Tamar Gendler (Edge, 2014)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.illusionsindex.org/i/mueller-lyer" data-airgap-id="22">M&uuml;ller-Lyer Illusion</a></li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/abs/10.1177/0956797614535400" data-airgap-id="23">Exploring Solomon&rsquo;s Paradox: Self-Distancing Eliminates the Self-Other Asymmetry in Wise Reasoning About Close Relationships in Younger and Older Adults</a>,&rdquo; by Igor Grossmann and Ethan Kross (Psychological Science, 2014)</li>
<li><a href="https://woopmylife.org/" data-airgap-id="24">WOOP: Wish, Outcome, Obstacle, Plan</a></li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1617230235?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=372760583920&amp;hvadid=812934654163&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hvcampaign=23946702649&amp;hydadcr=18332_13883056_2506321&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=3252593176508449974--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=197419383573&amp;hvrand=3252593176508449974&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="25">Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation</a>, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.science.org/doi/abs/10.1126/science.1195701?adobe_mc=MCMID%3D28872292537646828261101212917072275688%7CMCORGID%3D242B6472541199F70A4C98A6%2540AdobeOrg%7CTS%3D1791912116" data-airgap-id="26">Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption</a>,&rdquo; by Carey Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22989272/" data-airgap-id="27">Forming a flossing habit: an exploratory study of the psychological determinants of habit formation</a>,&rdquo; by Gaby Judah, Benjamin Gardner, and Robert Aunger (British Journal of Health Psychology, 2013)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/059308375X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="28">How to Change: The Science of Getting from Where You Are to Where You Want to Be</a>, by Katy Milkman (2021)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/013091231X?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="29">Burnout: The Cost of Caring</a>, by Christina Maslach (1982)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0061733520?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="30">Self-Compassion: The Proven Power of Being Kind to Yourself</a>, by Kristin Neff (2011)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/chapter/bookseries/abs/pii/S0065260108600246" data-airgap-id="31">Self-Perception Theory</a>,&rdquo; by Daryl J. Bem (Advances in Experimental Social Psychology, 1972)</li>
<li><a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/38410118/" data-airgap-id="32">&ldquo;Emotion Controllability Beliefs and Young People's Anxiety and Depression Symptoms: A Systematic Review</a>,&rdquo; by Matthew Somerville, Helen MacIntyre, Amy Harrison, and Iris Mauss (Adolescent Research Review, 2024)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2F0022-3514.92.4.731" data-airgap-id="33">Implicit theories of emotion: Affective and social outcomes across a major life transition</a>,&rdquo; by Maya Tamir, Oliver John, Sanjay Srivastava, and James Gross (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2007)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/for-whom-the-alarm-clock-tolls" data-airgap-id="34">For Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/harnessing-people-around-us-to-feel-happier-live-with-ethan-kross" data-airgap-id="35">Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/bonus-coach-yourself-through-a-crisis" data-airgap-id="36">Coach Yourself Through a Crisis</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/dont-accentuate-the-positive" data-airgap-id="37">Don&rsquo;t Accentuate the Positive</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Why Happiness Experts Still Struggle to Be Happy with Dr. Ethan Kross

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/8cb1910d-ce4a-41cb-a219-b4e800146a2a/transcript

Mistakenly Seeking Solitude

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