Hidden Brain is a weekly podcast hosted by Shankar Vedantam. It's a show about science and human behaviour we think you'll enjoy. Dr Laurie Santos was a guest on the show - so we thought you'd appreciate a chance to hear her tell Shankar all about her research work on monkeys and what they tells us about how our own biases surrounding financial decisions developed.

If you like this episode of Hidden Brain subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts or find out more at https://hiddenbrain.org/ 

 Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com

Hidden Brain is a weekly podcast hosted by Shankar Vedantam. It's a show about science and human behaviour we think you'll enjoy. Dr Laurie Santos was a guest on the show - so we thought you'd appreciate a chance to hear her tell Shankar all about her research work on monkeys and what they tells us about how our own biases surrounding financial decisions developed.If you like this episode of Hidden Brain subscribe to the show wherever you get your podcasts or find out more at <a href="https://hiddenbrain.org/%20%20">https://hiddenbrain.org/ </a>  Learn more about your ad-choices at <a href="https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com">https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com</a>

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

Hidden Brain: Laurie Talks Monkeys and Bad Money Decisions.  

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/c482053d-e27c-44f2-b0c2-ae320074e2e8/transcript

It’s hard to focus on wellbeing when we’re expected to work nonstop until retirement. Taking a break from time to time should be a given, not a privilege.

Dr. Laurie works in one of the few industries that recognizes the importance of extended time off. As she begins her own year-long sabbatical from Yale, we’re revisiting her conversation with DJ DiDonna, author of Big Time Off, about what can happen when we step away from work for more than just a vacation.

DJ breaks down how to manage the biggest barriers to taking a sabbatical, from money and workplace optics to family responsibilities. He also explains why extended time off can help us recover from burnout, rethink our routines, and experiment with different versions of ourselves.

Whether you’re contemplating months away or just fantasizing about turning off your email, this episode makes the case that sometimes the best way to move forward is to stop for a while.

Experts Mentioned:
DJ DiDonna, Senior Lecturer of Business Administration at Harvard Business School

Resources Mentioned:
Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One, by DJ DiDonna (2026)
Recover, Explore, Practice: The Transformative Potential of Sabbaticals, by Kira Schabram, Matt Bloom, and DJ DiDonna (Academy of Management Discoveries, 2023)
 The Sabbatical Project

Related Episodes:
“You Can Change”
“Happiness Lessons of the Ancients: The Day of Rest”
“How to be Happier at Work (with Dan Harris)”
“Burnout and How to Avoid It”

It&rsquo;s hard to focus on wellbeing when we&rsquo;re expected to work nonstop until retirement. Taking a break from time to time should be a given, not a privilege.
Dr. Laurie works in one of the few industries that recognizes the importance of extended time off. As she begins her own year-long sabbatical from Yale, we&rsquo;re revisiting her conversation with DJ DiDonna, author of <a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668060892?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=374045105006&amp;hvadid=812900695866&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hydadcr=10514_13903615_2508665&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=6488983478029249963--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=195298708937&amp;hvrand=6488983478029249963&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="11">Big Time Off</a>, about what can happen when we step away from work for more than just a vacation.
DJ breaks down how to manage the biggest barriers to taking a sabbatical, from money and workplace optics to family responsibilities. He also explains why extended time off can help us recover from burnout, rethink our routines, and experiment with different versions of ourselves.
Whether you&rsquo;re contemplating months away or just fantasizing about turning off your email, this episode makes the case that sometimes the best way to move forward is to stop for a while.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://djdidonna.com/" data-airgap-id="12">DJ DiDonna</a>, Senior Lecturer of Business Administration at Harvard Business School</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1668060892?lv=shuf&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvptwo=&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;mcid=&amp;hvext=374045105006&amp;hvadid=812900695866&amp;language=en_US&amp;hvpone=&amp;hvlocint=&amp;hydadcr=10514_13903615_2508665&amp;hvpos=&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvdvcmdl=&amp;hvocijid=6488983478029249963--&amp;hvqmt=a&amp;hvexpln=0&amp;tag=smgglusdsadts-20&amp;hvtargid=kwl-2484167636399&amp;adgrpid=195298708937&amp;hvrand=6488983478029249963&amp;channelId=500&amp;ref_=&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="13">Big Time Off: The Transformative Power of Sabbaticals and How to Take One</a>, by DJ DiDonna (2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/full/10.5465/amd.2021.0100" data-airgap-id="14">Recover, Explore, Practice: The Transformative Potential of Sabbaticals</a>, by <a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/amd.2021.0100#" data-airgap-id="15">Kira Schabram</a>, <a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/amd.2021.0100#" data-airgap-id="16">Matt Bloom</a>, and <a href="https://journals.aom.org/doi/abs/10.5465/amd.2021.0100#" data-airgap-id="17">DJ DiDonna</a> (Academy of Management Discoveries, 2023)</li>
<li>&nbsp;<a href="http://www.thesabbaticalproject.org/" data-airgap-id="18">The Sabbatical Project</a></li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/you-can-change" data-airgap-id="19">You Can Change</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/happiness-lessons-of-the-ancients-the-day-of-rest" data-airgap-id="20">Happiness Lessons of the Ancients: The Day of Rest</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-be-happier-at-work-with-dan-harris" data-airgap-id="21">How to be Happier at Work (with Dan Harris)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/burnout-and-how-to-avoid-it" data-airgap-id="22">Burnout and How to Avoid It</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

The Life-Changing Power of a Sabbatical

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/b7c0058c-d25d-4ba5-936b-b4a6013ff981/transcript

Most of us hate asking for favors. We worry about being a burden, coming across as needy, or facing rejection for asking too much. But what if our fear of bothering people is stopping us, and the people around us, from becoming happier?

Dr. Laurie explores why our instincts about asking for help are usually wrong. She speaks with psychologist Nicholas Epley about why asking others for help can actually make them like us more. And author and entrepreneur Jia Jiang shares how 100 days of asking for outlandish favors totally transformed his life.

Experts Mentioned:
Nicholas Epley, Professor of Behavioral Science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business
Jia Jiang, author, entrepreneur, and expert in “rejection therapy”

Resources Mentioned:
Rejection Proof: How I Beat Fear and Became Invincible Through 100 Days of Rejection, by Jia Jiang (2015)
“What I Learned from 100 Days of Rejection,” by Jia Jiang (TED, 2016)
“100 Days of Rejection Therapy,” by Jia Jiang (YouTube series, 2013)
RejectionTherapy.com
“Surprisingly Happy to Have Helped: Underestimating Prosociality Creates a Misplaced Barrier to Asking for Help,” by Xuan Zhao and Nicholas Epley (Psychological Science, 2022)
“Beautiful mess effect: Self–other differences in evaluation of showing vulnerability,” by Anna Bruk, Sabine Scholl, and Herbert Bless (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2018)

Related Episodes:
“Treating the Pain of a Broken Heart”
“Forget Small Talk: Go Deep Instead”
“The Surprising Case for Oversharing”

Most of us hate asking for favors. We worry about being a burden, coming across as needy, or facing rejection for asking too much. But what if our fear of bothering people is stopping us, and the people around us, from becoming happier?
Dr. Laurie explores why our instincts about asking for help are usually wrong. She speaks with psychologist <a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Nicholas Epley</a> about why asking others for help can actually make them like us more. And author and entrepreneur <a href="https://www.jiajiang.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Jia Jiang</a> shares how 100 days of asking for outlandish favors totally transformed his life.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="14">Nicholas Epley</a>, Professor of Behavioral Science at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business</li>
<li><a href="https://www.jiajiang.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Jia Jiang</a>, author, entrepreneur, and expert in &ldquo;rejection therapy&rdquo;</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Rejection-Proof-Became-Invincible-Through/dp/080414138X" data-airgap-id="16">Rejection Proof: How I Beat Fear and Became Invincible Through 100 Days of Rejection</a>, by Jia Jiang (2015)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.ted.com/talks/jia_jiang_what_i_learned_from_100_days_of_rejection" data-airgap-id="17">What I Learned from 100 Days of Rejection</a>,&rdquo; by Jia Jiang (TED, 2016)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLamouX6QxWIuTHuaArIOzdorWoYaF6cU5" data-airgap-id="18">100 Days of Rejection Therapy</a>,&rdquo; by Jia Jiang (YouTube series, 2013)</li>
<li><a href="http://rejectiontherapy.com/" data-airgap-id="19">RejectionTherapy.com</a></li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36067802/" data-airgap-id="20">Surprisingly Happy to Have Helped: Underestimating Prosociality Creates a Misplaced Barrier to Asking for Help</a>,&rdquo; by Xuan Zhao and Nicholas Epley (Psychological Science, 2022)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://psycnet.apa.org/record/2018-34832-002" data-airgap-id="21">Beautiful mess effect: Self&ndash;other differences in evaluation of showing vulnerability</a>,&rdquo; by Anna Bruk, Sabine Scholl, and Herbert Bless (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2018)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/treating-the-pain-of-a-broken-heart" data-airgap-id="22">Treating the Pain of a Broken Heart</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/forget-small-talk-go-deep-instead" data-airgap-id="23">Forget Small Talk: Go Deep Instead</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-surprising-case-for-oversharing" data-airgap-id="24">The Surprising Case for Oversharing</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

You're Actually Not Bothering People Enough

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/86ae9ca0-ce93-45ef-b927-b49800eb3103/transcript

In recent years, we've heard a lot of unsettling news about the loneliness epidemic and the dangers of social isolation. But could all this talk about loneliness paradoxically be making the problem... worse?

Dr. Laurie unpacks what we get wrong about loneliness. Along the way, she speaks with historian Fay Bound-Alberti about why loneliness, as we think of it today, is a surprisingly modern phenomenon. Psychologist Micaela Rodriguez explains why we often confuse loneliness with being alone — and why learning to enjoy solitude can actually make us less lonely. And writer Emma Gannon shares practical tips for embracing the joy of your own company.

Laurie discovers why spending time alone is a skill, and how getting better at it can help us regulate our emotions, spark creativity, and strengthen our connections with others.

Experts Mentioned:
Vivek Murthy, 19th and 21st Surgeon General of the United States
Fay Bound-Alberti, Professor of Modern History at King’s College London
Micaela Rodriguez, Assistant Professor of Psychology at Yale University
Emma Gannon, author, blogger, and podcaster 
Matthew Killingsworth, Senior Fellow at The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania
Timothy Wilson, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Virginia
Scott Campbell, Professor of Mediated Communication at The Ohio State University
Julia Cameron, author, poet, songwriter, filmmaker, and playwright
Blaise Pascal, 17th-century French philosopher

Resources Mentioned:
“Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation: The U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community,” by Office of the Surgeon General (2023)
“Social connection linked to improved health and reduced risk of early death,” by World Health Organization Media Team (2025)
A Biography of Loneliness: The History of an Emotion, by Fay Bound-Alberti (2019)
“Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind,” by Timothy Wilson, David Reinhard, Erin Westgate, Daniel Gilbert, Nicole Ellerbeck, Cheryl Hahn, Casey Brown, and Adi Shaked (Science, 2014)
“How people think about being alone shapes their experience of loneliness,” by Micaela Rodriguez, Kathryn E. Schertz, and Ethan Kross (Nature Communications, 2025)
“From ‘isolation’ to ‘me-time’: Linguistic shifts enhance solitary experiences,” by Micaela Rodriguez and Scott Campbell (Cognition and Emotion, 2025)
“Solitude can be good—If you see it as such: Reappraisal helps lonely people experience solitude more positively,” by Micaela Rodriguez,  Samuel Pratt, Benjamin W. Bellet, and Richard J. McNally (Journal of Personality, 2023)
A Creative Compass: Finding Your Way to a Creative Life, by Emma Gannon (2026)
“A love letter to solitude,” by Emma Gannon (The Hyphen, 2025)
“‘Don’t you have friends to go with?’: the stigma and joy of a table for one,” by Emma Gannon (The Guardian, 2026)
The Artist’s Way, by Julia Cameron (1992)

Related Episodes:
“Beat Your Isolation Loneliness”
“Fighting that "Meh" Feeling of Languishing”
“Emotions Are Data…So Listen to Them”

In recent years, we've heard a lot of unsettling news about the loneliness epidemic and the dangers of social isolation. But could all this talk about loneliness paradoxically be making the problem... worse?
Dr. Laurie unpacks what we get wrong about loneliness. Along the way, she speaks with historian <a href="https://fayboundalberti.com/" data-airgap-id="12">Fay Bound-Alberti</a> about why loneliness, as we think of it today, is a surprisingly modern phenomenon. Psychologist <a href="https://www.micaelarodriguez.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Micaela Rodriguez</a> explains why we often confuse loneliness with being alone &mdash; and why learning to enjoy solitude can actually make us less lonely. And writer <a href="https://www.emmagannon.co.uk/" data-airgap-id="14">Emma Gannon</a> shares practical tips for embracing the joy of your own company.
Laurie discovers why spending time alone is a skill, and how getting better at it can help us regulate our emotions, spark creativity, and strengthen our connections with others.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.vivekmurthy.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Vivek Murthy</a>, 19th and 21st Surgeon General of the United States</li>
<li><a href="https://fayboundalberti.com/" data-airgap-id="16">Fay Bound-Alberti</a>, Professor of Modern History at King&rsquo;s College London</li>
<li><a href="https://www.micaelarodriguez.com/" data-airgap-id="17">Micaela Rodriguez</a>, Assistant Professor of Psychology at Yale University</li>
<li><a href="https://www.emmagannon.co.uk/" data-airgap-id="18">Emma Gannon</a>, author, blogger, and podcaster&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.mattkillingsworth.com/" data-airgap-id="19">Matthew Killingsworth</a>, Senior Fellow at The Wharton School, University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li><a href="https://batten.virginia.edu/people/timothy-wilson/" data-airgap-id="20">Timothy Wilson</a>, Professor Emeritus of Psychology at the University of Virginia</li>
<li><a href="https://comm.osu.edu/people/campbell.2844" data-airgap-id="21">Scott Campbell</a>, Professor of Mediated Communication at The Ohio State University</li>
<li><a href="https://juliacameronlive.com/" data-airgap-id="22">Julia Cameron</a>, author, poet, songwriter, filmmaker, and playwright</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/pascal/" data-airgap-id="23">Blaise Pascal</a>, 17th-century French philosopher</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf" data-airgap-id="24">Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation: The U.S. Surgeon General&rsquo;s Advisory on the Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community</a>,&rdquo; by Office of the Surgeon General (2023)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.who.int/news/item/30-06-2025-social-connection-linked-to-improved-heath-and-reduced-risk-of-early-death" data-airgap-id="25">Social connection linked to improved health and reduced risk of early death</a>,&rdquo; by World Health Organization Media Team (2025)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Biography-Loneliness-History-Emotion/dp/0198811349" data-airgap-id="26">A Biography of Loneliness: The History of an Emotion</a>, by Fay Bound-Alberti (2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.1250830" data-airgap-id="27">Just think: The challenges of the disengaged mind</a>,&rdquo; by Timothy Wilson, David Reinhard, Erin Westgate, Daniel Gilbert, Nicole Ellerbeck, Cheryl Hahn, Casey Brown, and Adi Shaked (Science, 2014)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-025-56764-3" data-airgap-id="28">How people think about being alone shapes their experience of loneliness</a>,&rdquo; by Micaela Rodriguez, Kathryn E. Schertz, and Ethan Kross (Nature Communications, 2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02699931.2024.2445080" data-airgap-id="29">From &lsquo;isolation&rsquo; to &lsquo;me-time&rsquo;: Linguistic shifts enhance solitary experiences</a>,&rdquo; by Micaela Rodriguez and Scott Campbell (Cognition and Emotion, 2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jopy.12887" data-airgap-id="30">Solitude can be good&mdash;If you see it as such: Reappraisal helps lonely people experience solitude more positively</a>,&rdquo; by Micaela Rodriguez,&nbsp; Samuel Pratt, Benjamin W. Bellet, and Richard J. McNally (Journal of Personality, 2023)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Compass-Finding-Your-Life-ebook/dp/B0FVBBFDDG" data-airgap-id="31">A Creative Compass: Finding Your Way to a Creative Life</a>, by Emma Gannon (2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://thehyphen.substack.com/p/a-love-letter-to-solitude" data-airgap-id="32">A love letter to solitude</a>,&rdquo; by Emma Gannon (The Hyphen, 2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;&lsquo;<a href="https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/30/stigma-joy-table-for-one-solo-dining" data-airgap-id="33">Don&rsquo;t you have friends to go with?&rsquo;: the stigma and joy of a table for one</a>,&rdquo; by Emma Gannon (The Guardian, 2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Artists-Way-Spiritual-Higher-Creativity/dp/1585421472" data-airgap-id="34">The Artist&rsquo;s Way</a>, by Julia Cameron (1992)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/bonus-beat-your-isolation-loneliness" data-airgap-id="35">Beat Your Isolation Loneliness</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/fighting-that-meh-feeling-of-languishing" data-airgap-id="36">Fighting that "Meh" Feeling of Languishing</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/emotions-are-data-so-listen-to-them" data-airgap-id="37">Emotions Are Data&hellip;So Listen to Them</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Why Being Alone Might Be Better Than You Think

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/1db8f036-0b3f-4fb7-8df1-b49800f2b23b/transcript

Hidden Brain: Laurie Talks Monkeys and Bad Money Decisions.

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