Lili Taylor loves her acting career - but the emotional intensity of her work and the constant travel can take its toll. But Lili has found a way to relax and unwind - watching birds. 

As Lili explains in her new book Turning to Birds: The Power and Beauty of Noticing - if we stop to listen to birdsong or pause to watch their busy daily lives - we give ourselves a break from our own stresses.  

Get ad-free episodes to The Happiness Lab by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or Pushkin.fm. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows. 

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Lili Taylor loves her acting career - but the emotional intensity of her work and the constant travel can take its toll. But Lili has found a way to relax and unwind - watching birds.&nbsp;
As Lili explains in her new book <a href="https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/743576/turning-to-birds-by-lili-taylor/">Turning to Birds:&nbsp;The Power and Beauty of Noticing</a> - if we stop to listen to birdsong or pause to watch their busy daily lives - we give ourselves a break from our own stresses.&nbsp;&nbsp;
<hr>
Get ad-free episodes to The Happiness Lab by subscribing to Pushkin+ on Apple Podcasts or <a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/join-pushkin">Pushkin.fm</a>. Pushkin+ subscribers can access ad-free episodes, full audiobooks, exclusive binges, and bonus content for all Pushkin shows.&nbsp;
Subscribe on Apple: <a href="http://apple.co/pushkin">apple.co/pushkin</a> Subscribe on Pushkin:&nbsp;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/join-pushkin">pushkin.fm/plus</a>

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won’t protect you.

With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim — using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab is serving up scientifically-backed takes this summer that are so hot, even your SPF 50 won&rsquo;t protect you.
With the help of behavioral scientists, historians, and cultural critics, Yale psychologist Dr. Laurie Santos challenges some of our biggest assumptions about what it takes to live a good life. Dr. Laurie explores topics like why we should forget about TMI and lean into oversharing, how dumping small talk makes for better conversations, why the kids these days are actually doing just fine, and how men can establish strong bromances. Each episode unpacks a bold, counterintuitive claim &mdash;&nbsp;using research, data, and expert insight to question the conventional wisdom around happiness and wellbeing.

The Happiness Lab with Dr. Laurie Santos

"Birds Are Like My Afternoon Martini" (Birding with  Lili Taylor)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/f714e154-55f0-4dc0-9020-b2ff00b970c9/transcript

Most of us default to small talk. It's polite, familiar, and feels like the safest way to start a conversation. But it may also be one of the biggest barriers to genuine connection.

Dr. Laurie speaks with author and metal-health advocate Claire Eastham about her month-long experiment replacing small talk with deeper conversations while living with social anxiety.  She also chats with psychologist Nicholas Epley about why going deeper often scares us, what research reveals about opening up, and what happens when you tell a stranger about the last time you cried.

Experts Mentioned:
Claire Eastham, author, blogger, and mental-health advocate
Nicholas Epley, Professor of Behavioral Science and Faculty Director of the Roman Family Center for Decision Research at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business
Arthur Aron, Professor of Psychology at the State University of New York at Stony Brook 
Elaine Aron, psychologist and author 

Resources Mentioned:
We're All Mad Here: The No-Nonsense Guide to Living with Social Anxiety, by Claire Eastham (2016)
A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection, by Nicholas Epley (2026)
“The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings,” by Arthur Aron, Edward Melinat, Elaine Aron, Robert Darrin Vallone, and Renee Bator (Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 1997)

Related Episodes: 
“The Surprising Case for Oversharing”
“Make Vulnerability Your Superpower (with NBA Star Kevin Love)”
“Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)”

Most of us default to small talk. It's polite, familiar, and feels like the safest way to start a conversation. But it may also be one of the biggest barriers to genuine connection.
Dr. Laurie speaks with author and metal-health advocate <a href="https://x.com/ClaireyLove" data-airgap-id="10">Claire Eastham</a> about her month-long experiment replacing small talk with deeper conversations while living with social anxiety.&nbsp; She also chats with psychologist <a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="11">Nicholas Epley</a> about why going deeper often scares us, what research reveals about opening up, and what happens when you tell a stranger about the last time you cried.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://x.com/ClaireyLove" data-airgap-id="12">Claire Eastham</a>, author, blogger, and mental-health advocate</li>
<li><a href="https://www.nicholasepley.com/" data-airgap-id="13">Nicholas Epley</a>, Professor of Behavioral Science and Faculty Director of the Roman Family Center for Decision Research at the University of Chicago Booth School of Business</li>
<li><a href="https://www.psychology.stonybrook.edu/aronlab-/people/art.htm" data-airgap-id="14">Arthur Aron</a>, Professor of Psychology at the State University of New York at Stony Brook&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://hsperson.com/" data-airgap-id="15">Elaine Aron</a>, psychologist and author&nbsp;</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/1785920820?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="16">We're All Mad Here: The No-Nonsense Guide to Living with Social Anxiety</a>, by Claire Eastham (2016)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593319540?lv=shuf&amp;channelId=500&amp;plpRedirect=mhFallback" data-airgap-id="17">A Little More Social: How Small Choices Create Unexpected Happiness, Health, and Connection</a>, by Nicholas Epley (2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0146167297234003" data-airgap-id="18">The Experimental Generation of Interpersonal Closeness: A Procedure and Some Preliminary Findings</a>,&rdquo; by Arthur Aron, Edward Melinat, Elaine Aron, Robert Darrin Vallone, and Renee Bator (Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin, 1997)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/the-surprising-case-for-oversharing" data-airgap-id="19">The Surprising Case for Oversharing</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/make-vulnerability-your-superpower-with-nba-star-kevin-love" data-airgap-id="20">Make Vulnerability Your Superpower (with NBA Star Kevin Love)</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/harnessing-people-around-us-to-feel-happier-live-with-ethan-kross" data-airgap-id="21">Harnessing People Around us to Feel Happier (Live with Ethan Kross)</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Forget Small Talk: Go Deep Instead

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/bd4ebe67-d68d-4134-83ed-b4820123dc55/transcript

In this special live episode, Dr. Laurie takes the stage at Dartmouth College for a conversation with happiness historian Darrin McMahon.

Together, they break down some of the biggest misconceptions about happiness in modern life, discuss the most effective (and often counterintuitive) ways to improve our wellbeing, and explore how smartphones, AI, and other new technologies may shape happiness in the years ahead.

Experts Mentioned: 
Darrin McMahon, Professor of History at Dartmouth College
Martin Seligman, Professor of Psychology and Director of the Positive Psychology Center at the University of Pennsylvania
Lorraine Siggins, Director Emeritus of Mental Health and Counseling for Students at Yale Health
Ashley Whillans, Associate Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School
Sonja Lyubomirsky, Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Riverside
Carey Morewedge, Chair of the Marketing Department at Boston University’s Questrom School of Business
Gabriele Oettingen, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg
David Blanchflower, Professor of Economics at Dartmouth College
Jean Twenge, Professor of Psychology at San Diego State University
Jonathan Haidt, Professor of Ethical Leadership and Professor of Business & Society at New York University Stern School of Business
Elizabeth Dunn, Professor of Psychology at the University of British Columbia
Manoush Zomorodi, journalist, podcast host, and author
Robert Putnam, Professor Emeritus of Public Policy at Harvard University
Kostadin Kushlev, Associate Professor of Psychology at Georgetown University
Catherine Price, journalist and author 
Michael Inzlicht, Professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto, with a cross-appointment in the Rotman School of Management
Adam Smith, Scottish economist and philosopher
Erzo Luttmer, Professor of Economics at Dartmouth College
Jan-Emmanuel De Neve, Professor of Economics and Behavioural Science and Director of the Wellbeing Research Centre at the University of Oxford

Resources Mentioned: 
The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex, by Charles Darwin (1871)
“High Income Improves Evaluation of Life but Not Emotional Well-Being,” by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2010)
“Income and Emotional Well-Being: A Conflict Resolved,” by Matthew Killingsworth, Daniel Kahneman, and Barbra Mellers
Time Smart: How to Reclaim Your Time and Live a Happier Life, by Ashley Whillans (2020)
The How of Happiness: A New Approach to Getting the Life You Want, by Sonja Lyubomirsky (2007)
The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom, by Jonathan Haidt (2006)
“Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption,” by Carey K Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)
Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)
“Declining Life Satisfaction and Happiness Among Young Adults in Six English-Speaking Countries,” by Jean Twenge and David Blanchflower (NBER Working Paper Series, 2025)
“Smartphones Reduce Smiles Between Strangers,” by Kostadin Kushlev, John Hunter, Jason Proulx, Sarah Pressman, and Elizabeth Dunn (Computers in Human Behavior, 2019)
Body Electric: The Hidden Health Costs of the Digital Age and New Science to Reclaim Your Well-Being, by Manoush Zomorodi (2026)
Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community, by Robert Putnam (2000)
Four Days a Week: The Life-Changing Solution for Reducing Employee Stress, Improving Well-Being, and Working Smarter, by Juliet Schor (2025)
“Do Happy People Care About Society’s Problems?,” by Kostadin Kushlev, Danielle M. Drummond, Samantha J. Heintzelman, and Ed Diener (The Journal of Positive Psychology, 2019)
“When Less Is More: Counterfactual Thinking and Satisfaction Among Olympic Medalists,” by Victoria Husted Medvec, Scott Madey, and Thomas Gilovich (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1995)
The Theory of Moral Sentiments, by Adam Smith (1759)
“Neighbors as Negatives: Relative Earnings and Well-Being,” by Erzo Luttmer (The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 2005)
How to Break Up With Your Phone: The 30-Day Plan to Take Back Your Life, by Catherine Price (2018)
“How Does Turning to AI for Companionship Predict Loneliness and Vice Versa?”, by Dunigan Folk and Elizabeth Dunn (Psychological Science, 2026)
“Effort Feels Meaningful,” by Michael Inzlicht and Aidan Campbell (Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 2022)
Why Workplace Wellbeing Matters: The Science Behind Employee Happiness and Organizational Performance, by Jan-Emmanuel De Neve and George Ward (2025)
“Alysa Liu: ‘If I Didn’t Hit Rock Bottom, I Could Not Have Gone Up’,” by Alex Morris (Rolling Stone, 2026)

Related Episodes: 
“Why the ‘Pursuit of Happiness’ Is a Bad Idea”
“What Screen Time Is Really Doing to Your Body with Manoush Zomorodi”
“What is Social Media Doing to Kids? with Dr. Jean Twenge”
“Take a Three-Day Weekend Without Losing Any Pay (with Juliet Schor)”

In this special live episode, Dr. Laurie takes the stage at Dartmouth College for a conversation with happiness historian <a href="https://darrinmcmahon.com/">Darrin McMahon</a>.
Together, they break down some of the biggest misconceptions about happiness in modern life, discuss the most effective (and often counterintuitive) ways to improve our wellbeing, and explore how smartphones, AI, and other new technologies may shape happiness in the years ahead.
Experts Mentioned:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li><a href="https://faculty-directory.dartmouth.edu/darrin-m-mcmahon">Darrin McMahon</a>, Professor of History at Dartmouth College</li>
<li><a href="https://ppc.sas.upenn.edu/people/martin-ep-seligman">Martin Seligman</a>, Professor of Psychology and Director of the Positive Psychology Center at the University of Pennsylvania</li>
<li><a href="https://emeritus.yale.edu/fellows/lorraine-siggins">Lorraine Siggins</a>, Director Emeritus of Mental Health and Counseling for Students at Yale Health</li>
<li><a href="https://www.hbs.edu/faculty/Pages/profile.aspx?facId=943704">Ashley Whillans</a>, Associate Professor of Business Administration at Harvard Business School</li>
<li><a href="https://sonjalyubomirsky.com/">Sonja Lyubomirsky</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of California, Riverside</li>
<li><a href="https://www.careymorewedge.com/">Carey Morewedge</a>, Chair of the Marketing Department at Boston University&rsquo;s Questrom School of Business</li>
<li><a href="https://woopmylife.org/en/contact">Gabriele Oettingen</a>, Professor of Psychology at New York University and the University of Hamburg</li>
<li><a href="https://economics.dartmouth.edu/people/david-graham-blanchflower">David Blanchflower</a>, Professor of Economics at Dartmouth College</li>
<li><a href="https://www.jeantwenge.com/">Jean Twenge</a>, Professor of Psychology at San Diego State University</li>
<li><a href="https://www.jonathanhaidt.com/">Jonathan Haidt</a>, Professor of Ethical Leadership and Professor of Business &amp; Society at New York University Stern School of Business</li>
<li><a href="https://dunn.psych.ubc.ca/">Elizabeth Dunn</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of British Columbia</li>
<li><a href="https://www.manoushz.com/">Manoush Zomorodi</a>, journalist, podcast host, and author</li>
<li><a href="https://www.hks.harvard.edu/faculty/robert-d-putnam">Robert Putnam</a>, Professor Emeritus of Public Policy at Harvard University</li>
<li><a href="https://www.kushlev.com/">Kostadin Kushlev</a>, Associate Professor of Psychology at Georgetown University</li>
<li><a href="https://catherineprice.com/">Catherine Price</a>, journalist and author&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://michaelinzlicht.com/about">Michael Inzlicht</a>, Professor of Psychology at the University of Toronto, with a cross-appointment in the Rotman School of Management</li>
<li><a href="https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/smith-moral-political/">Adam Smith</a>, Scottish economist and philosopher</li>
<li><a href="https://economics.dartmouth.edu/people/erzo-fp-luttmer">Erzo Luttmer</a>, Professor of Economics at Dartmouth College</li>
<li><a href="https://www.sbs.ox.ac.uk/about-us/people/jan-emmanuel-de-neve">Jan-Emmanuel De Neve</a>, Professor of Economics and Behavioural Science and Director of the Wellbeing Research Centre at the University of Oxford</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Descent-Selection-Relation-Princeton-Science/dp/0691023697">The Descent of Man, and Selection in Relation to Sex</a>, by Charles Darwin (1871)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1011492107?gad_source=1&amp;gad_campaignid=21506599862&amp;gbraid=0AAAAAqiPmCwrrBiN17xYWfJKFFM4_falq&amp;gclid=Cj0KCQjw9ZLSBhCcARIsAEhGKgMg372wt7-O0WFwLAO6tZmuxJ47C2gaB6JCM7QVczHQp0gJhe7RojQaAqWrEALw_wcB">High Income Improves Evaluation of Life but Not Emotional Well-Being</a>,&rdquo; by Daniel Kahneman and Angus Deaton (Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, 2010)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2208661120">Income and Emotional Well-Being: A Conflict Resolved</a>,&rdquo; by Matthew Killingsworth, Daniel Kahneman, and Barbra Mellers</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Time-Smart-Reclaim-Your-Happier/dp/1633698351">Time Smart: How to Reclaim Your Time and Live a Happier Life</a>, by Ashley Whillans (2020)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/How-Happiness-Approach-Getting-Life/dp/0143114956">The How of Happiness: A New Approach to Getting the Life You Want</a>, by Sonja Lyubomirsky (2007)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Happiness-Hypothesis-Finding-Modern-Ancient/dp/0465028020">The Happiness Hypothesis: Finding Modern Truth in Ancient Wisdom</a>, by Jonathan Haidt (2006)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/21148388/">Thought for Food: Imagined Consumption Reduces Actual Consumption</a>,&rdquo; by Carey K Morewedge, Young Eun Huh, and Joachim Vosgerau (Science, 2010)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Rethinking-Positive-Thinking-Science-Motivation/dp/1617230235">Rethinking Positive Thinking: Inside the New Science of Motivation</a>, by Gabriele Oettingen (2014)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.nber.org/papers/w33490">Declining Life Satisfaction and Happiness Among Young Adults in Six English-Speaking Countries</a>,&rdquo; by Jean Twenge and David Blanchflower (NBER Working Paper Series, 2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0747563218304643">Smartphones Reduce Smiles Between Strangers</a>,&rdquo; by Kostadin Kushlev, John Hunter, Jason Proulx, Sarah Pressman, and Elizabeth Dunn (Computers in Human Behavior, 2019)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Body-Electric-Digital-Science-Well-Being/dp/1250411203">Body Electric: The Hidden Health Costs of the Digital Age and New Science to Reclaim Your Well-Being</a>, by Manoush Zomorodi (2026)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Bowling-Alone-Collapse-American-Community/dp/0743203046">Bowling Alone: The Collapse and Revival of American Community</a>, by Robert Putnam (2000)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Four-Days-Week-Life-Changing-Well-Being/dp/0063382431">Four Days a Week: The Life-Changing Solution for Reducing Employee Stress, Improving Well-Being, and Working Smarter</a>, by Juliet Schor (2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://static1.squarespace.com/static/57a40c19414fb54f51f8095f/t/64931bd01d517e1d9f25fa83/1687362512991/2019+Kushlevetal-Happy-People-Care.pdf">Do Happy People Care About Society&rsquo;s Problems?</a>,&rdquo; by Kostadin Kushlev, Danielle M. Drummond, Samantha J. Heintzelman, and Ed Diener (The Journal of Positive Psychology, 2019)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/7473022/">When Less Is More: Counterfactual Thinking and Satisfaction Among Olympic Medalists</a>,&rdquo; by Victoria Husted Medvec, Scott Madey, and Thomas Gilovich (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1995)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Theory-Moral-Sentiments-Adam-Smith/dp/1614279985">The Theory of Moral Sentiments</a>, by Adam Smith (1759)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://academic.oup.com/qje/article-abstract/120/3/963/1841496">Neighbors as Negatives: Relative Earnings and Well-Being</a>,&rdquo; by Erzo Luttmer (The Quarterly Journal of Economics, 2005)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/How-Break-Up-Your-Phone/dp/039958112X">How to Break Up With Your Phone: The 30-Day Plan to Take Back Your Life</a>, by Catherine Price (2018)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/09567976261427747">How Does Turning to AI for Companionship Predict Loneliness and Vice Versa?</a>&rdquo;, by Dunigan Folk and Elizabeth Dunn (Psychological Science, 2026)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36272939/">Effort Feels Meaningful</a>,&rdquo; by Michael Inzlicht and Aidan Campbell (Trends in Cognitive Sciences, 2022)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Why-Workplace-Wellbeing-Matters-Organizational/dp/1647826357">Why Workplace Wellbeing Matters: The Science Behind Employee Happiness and Organizational Performance</a>, by Jan-Emmanuel De Neve and George Ward (2025)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-features/alysa-liu-olympic-gold-medalist-interview-1235525804/">Alysa Liu: &lsquo;If I Didn&rsquo;t Hit Rock Bottom, I Could Not Have Gone Up&rsquo;</a>,&rdquo; by Alex Morris (Rolling Stone, 2026)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:&nbsp;
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/why-the-pursuit-of-happiness-is-a-bad-idea">Why the &lsquo;Pursuit of Happiness&rsquo; Is a Bad Idea</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/what-screen-time-is-really-doing-to-your-body-with-manoush-zomorodi">What Screen Time Is Really Doing to Your Body with Manoush Zomorodi</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/what-is-social-media-doing-to-kids-with-dr-jean-twenge">What is Social Media Doing to Kids? with Dr. Jean Twenge</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/take-a-three-day-weekend-without-losing-any-pay-with-juliet-schor">Take a Three-Day Weekend Without Losing Any Pay (with Juliet Schor)</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

What We Still Get Wrong About Happiness (Live at Dartmouth)

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/1356d717-977c-49bc-9de9-b47e01391f6a/transcript

The “pursuit of happiness” is one of America’s founding ideals. But what if chasing happiness is actually making us feel worse?

In honor of the 250th anniversary of American independence, Dr. Laurie travels to Independence Hall in Philadelphia to explore what Thomas Jefferson and the founders really meant by “the pursuit of happiness” — and how that idea has changed over time.

She speaks with historian Darrin McMahon and psychologist Iris Mauss about Americans’ unique relationship with happiness, why striving for it can sometimes backfire, and why the best path to a good life may involve focusing less on ourselves and more on other people.

For more content about the Declaration of Independence, and what we get wrong about it, check out the new Pushkin show, First America. Find First America wherever you get podcasts.

Experts Mentioned:
Darrin McMahon, David W. Little Class of 1944 Professor of History at Dartmouth College
Iris Mauss, Professor of Psychology at UC Berkeley and Director of the Emotion and Emotion Regulation Lab 
Lahnna Catalino, Associate Professor of Psychology at Scripps College
Birgit Koopmann-Holm, Associate Professor of Psychology at Santa Clara College of Arts and Sciences

Resources Mentioned:
“Declaration of Independence,”(1776)
Happiness: A History, by Darrin McMahon (2006)
A Dictionary of the English Language, by Samuel Johnson (1755)
Democracy in America, by Alexis de Tocqueville (1835)
“The Pursuit of Happiness: Pitfalls and Promises,” by Iris Mauss and Brett Ford
“Can Seeking Happiness Make People Happy? Paradoxical Effects of Valuing Happiness,” by Iris Mauss and colleagues (Emotion, 2011)
“Focusing on the Negative: Cultural Differences in Expressions of Sympathy,” by Birgit Koopmann-Holm and Jeanne Tsai (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2014)
“Prioritizing Positivity: An Effective Approach to Pursuing Happiness?,” by Lahnna Catalino, Sara Algoe, and Barbra Frederickson (Emotion, 2014)

Related Episodes:
“Happiness Lessons From the Ancients: Aristotle”
"How to Identify Your Negative Emotions"
“Stop Endlessly Chasing the ‘Next Big Thing’ in 2023”

The &ldquo;pursuit of happiness&rdquo; is one of America&rsquo;s founding ideals. But what if chasing happiness is actually making us feel worse?
In honor of the 250th anniversary of American independence, Dr. Laurie travels to Independence Hall in Philadelphia to explore what Thomas Jefferson and the founders really meant by &ldquo;the pursuit of happiness&rdquo; &mdash; and how that idea has changed over time.
She speaks with historian <a href="https://faculty-directory.dartmouth.edu/darrin-m-mcmahon">Darrin McMahon</a> and psychologist <a href="https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/iris-mauss">Iris Mauss</a> about Americans&rsquo; unique relationship with happiness, why striving for it can sometimes backfire, and why the best path to a good life may involve focusing less on ourselves and more on other people.
For more content about the Declaration of Independence, and what we get wrong about it, check out the new Pushkin show, First America. <a href="http://lnk.to/FATHL">Find First America wherever you get podcasts</a>.
Experts Mentioned:
<ul>
<li><a href="https://faculty-directory.dartmouth.edu/darrin-m-mcmahon">Darrin McMahon</a>, David W. Little Class of 1944 Professor of History at Dartmouth College</li>
<li><a href="https://psychology.berkeley.edu/people/iris-mauss">Iris Mauss</a>, Professor of Psychology at UC Berkeley and Director of the Emotion and Emotion Regulation Lab&nbsp;</li>
<li><a href="https://www.scrippscollege.edu/offices/profile/lahnna-catalino">Lahnna Catalino</a>, Associate Professor of Psychology at Scripps College</li>
<li><a href="https://www.scu.edu/cas/psychology/faculty-and-staff/birgit-koopmann-holm/">Birgit Koopmann-Holm</a>, Associate Professor of Psychology at Santa Clara College of Arts and Sciences</li>
</ul>
Resources Mentioned:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/declaration-transcript">Declaration of Independence</a>,&rdquo; (1776)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/s?k=happiness+a+history&amp;hvadid=694122845217&amp;hvdev=c&amp;hvexpln=67&amp;hvlocphy=9004400&amp;hvnetw=g&amp;hvocijid=8289930300280046609--&amp;hvqmt=e&amp;hvrand=8289930300280046609&amp;hvtargid=kwd-299429754950&amp;hydadcr=15278_13517873&amp;mcid=6edc0d09988a39e7a06307a2a77af1cb&amp;tag=googhydr-20&amp;ref=pd_sl_5fsx49g574_e_p67">Happiness: A History</a>, by Darrin McMahon (2006)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Dictionary-English-Language-Anthology-Classics/dp/0141441577">A Dictionary of the English Language</a>, by Samuel Johnson (1755)</li>
<li><a href="https://www.amazon.com/Democracy-America-Alexis-Tocqueville/dp/0226805360">Democracy in America</a>, by Alexis de Tocqueville (1835)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1364661326000513?dgcid=author">The Pursuit of Happiness: Pitfalls and Promises</a>,&rdquo; by Iris Mauss and Brett Ford</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3160511/">Can Seeking Happiness Make People Happy? Paradoxical Effects of Valuing Happiness</a>,&rdquo; by Iris Mauss and colleagues (Emotion, 2011)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://psycnet.apa.org/doiLanding?doi=10.1037%2Fa0037684">Focusing on the Negative: Cultural Differences in Expressions of Sympathy</a>,&rdquo; by Birgit Koopmann-Holm and Jeanne Tsai (Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 2014)</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5533095/">Prioritizing Positivity: An Effective Approach to Pursuing Happiness?</a>,&rdquo; by Lahnna Catalino, Sara Algoe, and Barbra Frederickson (Emotion, 2014)</li>
</ul>
Related Episodes:
<ul>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/happiness-lessons-of-the-ancients-aristotle">Happiness Lessons From the Ancients: Aristotle</a>&rdquo;</li>
<li>"<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/how-to-identify-your-negative-emotions">How to Identify Your Negative Emotions</a>"</li>
<li>&ldquo;<a href="https://www.pushkin.fm/podcasts/the-happiness-lab-with-dr-laurie-santos/stop-endlessly-chasing-the-next-big-thing-in-2023">Stop Endlessly Chasing the &lsquo;Next Big Thing&rsquo; in 2023</a>&rdquo;</li>
</ul>

Why the “Pursuit of Happiness” Is a Bad Idea

https://api.omny.fm/orgs/e73c998e-6e60-432f-8610-ae210140c5b1/clips/39cbdc28-9864-40ea-b5f4-b478000df773/transcript

"Birds Are Like My Afternoon Martini" (Birding with Lili Taylor)

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