She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.

She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.

I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Tracy Lund, welcome to Roll with the Punches.

I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers. Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution. Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples, custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so reach out to Mark and the team at www dot test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Tracy Lund, welcome to Roll with the Punches.

The're going Ticknye. It's good to be here.

The're going Ticknye. It's good to be here.

Thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. I wish that I could have my usual tone of excitement, and I wish that I could say I've been excited about this, I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to making a difference. But you popped up on my LinkedIn feed the other day with stuff I didn't want to have to be reading.

Thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. I wish that I could have my usual tone of excitement, and I wish that I could say I've been excited about this, I'm looking forward to it. I'm looking forward to making a difference. But you popped up on my LinkedIn feed the other day with stuff I didn't want to have to be reading.

Yeah, and I am sorry that I did that to you. Our family is facing some really significant trauma that the news for us was catastrophic that my husband is has been diagnosed with stage four esophagal cancer that has spread throughout his body. So we are at the moment on very very limited time, you know, maybe weeks left with Simon. And I would just say to your listeners, you know, I know there's so many people out there experiencing supporting loved ones that are terminally ill, and I just my heart goes out to them, and you know, it's a big emotional rollercoaster. In our case. Simon has worked for the CFA for over twenty five nearly twenty six years. Actually I think it is twenty six years. I could have that day slightly wrong. It's been a long time and quord of a century, yeah, as sweet a long time. And the reason you did see that post is not because that we were wanting to make any announcements about Simon's condition. In fact, for the last seven odd months, we have kept it very close and very to us. It's a deeply personal journey and the very last thing that we wanted for our family and our children and the limited time that we had together was to be discussing Simon's condition publicly. As we've moved through, I guess the processes that are involved when somebody is exposed at work and has a you know, I guess a workplace injury. We you know, we've been working through quite a lot of things and one of the things that has come up, and I guess in some ways, we you know, we are, we're aware, but not actually understanding the implications of the legislation. And that's presumptive legislation that I'm talking about, and who it does and who it doesn't cover. So what we are the presumptive legislation as it stands now covers fire, firefighters and dmos, and that means that the bitterment of proof is already there that you know, if they have one of those cancers that is under that legislation, that it is given that they were they were exposed at work or during their their working time. Assimon's title isn't firefighter or demo. He predominantly works in logistics and he so you know, he is frontline. So CFA staff that are given movement orders to get to attend incidents become frontline. They are on the front line and they have the same exposure as our firefighters and our demos. But and they work as one.

Yeah, and I am sorry that I did that to you. Our family is facing some really significant trauma that the news for us was catastrophic that my husband is has been diagnosed with stage four esophagal cancer that has spread throughout his body. So we are at the moment on very very limited time, you know, maybe weeks left with Simon. And I would just say to your listeners, you know, I know there's so many people out there experiencing supporting loved ones that are terminally ill, and I just my heart goes out to them, and you know, it's a big emotional rollercoaster. In our case. Simon has worked for the CFA for over twenty five nearly twenty six years. Actually I think it is twenty six years. I could have that day slightly wrong. It's been a long time and quord of a century, yeah, as sweet a long time. And the reason you did see that post is not because that we were wanting to make any announcements about Simon's condition. In fact, for the last seven odd months, we have kept it very close and very to us. It's a deeply personal journey and the very last thing that we wanted for our family and our children and the limited time that we had together was to be discussing Simon's condition publicly. As we've moved through, I guess the processes that are involved when somebody is exposed at work and has a you know, I guess a workplace injury. We you know, we've been working through quite a lot of things and one of the things that has come up, and I guess in some ways, we you know, we are, we're aware, but not actually understanding the implications of the legislation. And that's presumptive legislation that I'm talking about, and who it does and who it doesn't cover. So what we are the presumptive legislation as it stands now covers fire, firefighters and dmos, and that means that the bitterment of proof is already there that you know, if they have one of those cancers that is under that legislation, that it is given that they were they were exposed at work or during their their working time. Assimon's title isn't firefighter or demo. He predominantly works in logistics and he so you know, he is frontline. So CFA staff that are given movement orders to get to attend incidents become frontline. They are on the front line and they have the same exposure as our firefighters and our demos. But and they work as one.

So the what DMO stands for.

So the what DMO stands for.

District Mechanical Officer so and they were added about two years ago to the legislation. So what's become obvious is that there is a glaring gap in the legislation that doesn't cover CFA staff who are frontline, who are and I'll use the term operational, who become operational during those emergencies that we have and we know, you know, just in Victoria, there's been so many that we have had responding to fires and big incidents that us quite a long time. So there's a number of staffing roles that are there and that are required to support those incidents to happen. Those you know, they're logistic pieces and we can't do it, you know, you can't have those responses without them. So a motto in the among the emergency services is we work as one. So you know, we work as one, and I keep reflecting on that. So we do work as one, and they do, they absolutely do. So the agencies all come together and all parts of them come together to respond to incidents like we see black Saturday Black. Some are you know, all of them, but they're not covered as one under the legislation, and that has been the I guess the take home piece for us that we as a family feel really deeply strongly about that needs to be addressed and needs to be changed because it change the outcome for Simon and myself and my family, but families that come after us and staff that come after us, and there will be people that will be exposed and will be find themselves with terminal illnesses or lifelong health issues because of their work, because of their frontline response, that will not be covered. And so we want to change that. And Simon knows that this is a legacy piece and it's a piece that he's probably not going to see happen, but we have committed as a family to raise awareness about it, to ensure our community understands it, because even being in the services as long as we have, we probably didn't have that broader understanding of the implications of some being covered and some not under the presumptive legislation. But we do now. And when you know something's wrong, you know you you know you do do what you can to improve it or change that. So we're committed to raising awareness and ultimately having the legislation amended to address this gap so that frontline CFA. Sed UP are covered.

District Mechanical Officer so and they were added about two years ago to the legislation. So what's become obvious is that there is a glaring gap in the legislation that doesn't cover CFA staff who are frontline, who are and I'll use the term operational, who become operational during those emergencies that we have and we know, you know, just in Victoria, there's been so many that we have had responding to fires and big incidents that us quite a long time. So there's a number of staffing roles that are there and that are required to support those incidents to happen. Those you know, they're logistic pieces and we can't do it, you know, you can't have those responses without them. So a motto in the among the emergency services is we work as one. So you know, we work as one, and I keep reflecting on that. So we do work as one, and they do, they absolutely do. So the agencies all come together and all parts of them come together to respond to incidents like we see black Saturday Black. Some are you know, all of them, but they're not covered as one under the legislation, and that has been the I guess the take home piece for us that we as a family feel really deeply strongly about that needs to be addressed and needs to be changed because it change the outcome for Simon and myself and my family, but families that come after us and staff that come after us, and there will be people that will be exposed and will be find themselves with terminal illnesses or lifelong health issues because of their work, because of their frontline response, that will not be covered. And so we want to change that. And Simon knows that this is a legacy piece and it's a piece that he's probably not going to see happen, but we have committed as a family to raise awareness about it, to ensure our community understands it, because even being in the services as long as we have, we probably didn't have that broader understanding of the implications of some being covered and some not under the presumptive legislation. But we do now. And when you know something's wrong, you know you you know you do do what you can to improve it or change that. So we're committed to raising awareness and ultimately having the legislation amended to address this gap so that frontline CFA. Sed UP are covered.

Ah okay, can we.

Ah okay, can we.

It's a lot soide.

It's a lot soide.

Oh, so much running through my mind and so much kind of emotion like this I'm processing so much, but also processing perhaps for the sake of myself and those of us who aren't familiar with one the legislation for frontline workers and policies and people like even just like part of me was going, what what you can be a fight? You can go and be a the amazing heroic fireman and you and you might get a terminal illness. Like that's a thing, and that's the thing that people know about. So that's a thing that has something in place for some people, Like, so can you explain what's in place and how it's protecting people and then who it's leaving out.

Oh, so much running through my mind and so much kind of emotion like this I'm processing so much, but also processing perhaps for the sake of myself and those of us who aren't familiar with one the legislation for frontline workers and policies and people like even just like part of me was going, what what you can be a fight? You can go and be a the amazing heroic fireman and you and you might get a terminal illness. Like that's a thing, and that's the thing that people know about. So that's a thing that has something in place for some people, Like, so can you explain what's in place and how it's protecting people and then who it's leaving out.

So I think it was back in twenty nineteen we had the introduction of presumptive legislation, and that means that there's a number of cancers and illnesses that are considered job related exposure. So if you know, if you if you're a firefighter and you find yourself with one of those diseases. You know, it's automatically covered. So what that means is that you don't then have the burden of proof. And this is very you know, very much my simplified version of this. I'm not a lawyer or anything, so I just want to don't take I don't want any of your viewers to think that that's what I'm speaking from, because I'm not. It's just a wife's experience of this. That means that the burden of proof is not on you. It's just accepted that that was a result of the exposure of the carcinogens that you've breathed in during your time of responding to incidences, so a smoke related and toxic because that's what happens. That's part of your role. And if you are a DMO, a district mechanical officer, and a firefighter, then you won't have that burden of proof if you're not. And so in the case of Simon his PTA staff IT technical support, he goes out onto staging grounds and sets you know, sets up the staging grounds and the it IT systems, things like that, and he goes in and out of different exposures during various incidents and when he gets a movement order. So for example, when we had the mind fire here back in twenty fourteen, Simon sent up the incident Control Center at the mine and moved at two different times before it was moved into to realganized CC in Church dreat and Terraalgen, So there's significant exposure there for example. So because he's not one of those two roles, what it meant was that we have to work through a work safe sorry, we have to work through a work cover claim and that means the burden of proof is then on Simon to prove that he during his employment he has been exposed. So you know, it's things like getting together like pay slips, movement orders like there's you know, there's a body of information that has to be presented. So that for us was something we worked through and we were able to do, but it costs us precious time and it meant when he was ADDIE's most vulnerable and most done well, we were trying to pull together documentation that was required for the work cover process. So what we would like to see is the CEFA staff that are frontline, that have movement orders that go to incidences and if there is exposure that is recorded, and they do find themselves in a situation like you. We are that the burden of proof is not on them like that, because it's it's quite a lot of work to backtrack through twenty five years of work to remember we you know, the mean work out we were and put all that information together and it's actually having gone through it's a burden that you shouldn't have to carry when you're already dealing with what is a life changing event for your entire family and you are supporting somebody that is terminally ill and will pass away. The enormity of the emotions and the rollercoaster our family has been on cannot be underestimated. And it's such a like I can't tell you when we found out you know, what his illness was, and how sick he was going to get, and how very little time that we had this is a very aggressive cancer. It just took my breath away. And the sense of helplessness around a diagnosis like this is so compounding in your life. But then to have to somehow manage yourself and your family and get all these documents together and go through this process that you know, and as we got through it. You know, we started, I started to really look at that. You know, if he was a firefighter, we wouldn't have to do all that, like, we wouldn't have all this burden as well. And I think the gap is dangerously out of step with community expectations as well as people understand the role of our frontline and emergency responders and the exposure they have in their day to day jobs to protect us. And you know, we're seeing more and more incidents happen with climate change. You know, these fires and emergency situations that we are having are lasting longer, are happening more often, so there's more exposure than ever before. And I think that as a whole, as a community, as a society, we need our frontline workers, and we need every single one of them, but we also need to ensure that they're valued equally and they are supported equally. And I think for me, that is a glaring gap, and it's something that we can and we will fix.

So I think it was back in twenty nineteen we had the introduction of presumptive legislation, and that means that there's a number of cancers and illnesses that are considered job related exposure. So if you know, if you if you're a firefighter and you find yourself with one of those diseases. You know, it's automatically covered. So what that means is that you don't then have the burden of proof. And this is very you know, very much my simplified version of this. I'm not a lawyer or anything, so I just want to don't take I don't want any of your viewers to think that that's what I'm speaking from, because I'm not. It's just a wife's experience of this. That means that the burden of proof is not on you. It's just accepted that that was a result of the exposure of the carcinogens that you've breathed in during your time of responding to incidences, so a smoke related and toxic because that's what happens. That's part of your role. And if you are a DMO, a district mechanical officer, and a firefighter, then you won't have that burden of proof if you're not. And so in the case of Simon his PTA staff IT technical support, he goes out onto staging grounds and sets you know, sets up the staging grounds and the it IT systems, things like that, and he goes in and out of different exposures during various incidents and when he gets a movement order. So for example, when we had the mind fire here back in twenty fourteen, Simon sent up the incident Control Center at the mine and moved at two different times before it was moved into to realganized CC in Church dreat and Terraalgen, So there's significant exposure there for example. So because he's not one of those two roles, what it meant was that we have to work through a work safe sorry, we have to work through a work cover claim and that means the burden of proof is then on Simon to prove that he during his employment he has been exposed. So you know, it's things like getting together like pay slips, movement orders like there's you know, there's a body of information that has to be presented. So that for us was something we worked through and we were able to do, but it costs us precious time and it meant when he was ADDIE's most vulnerable and most done well, we were trying to pull together documentation that was required for the work cover process. So what we would like to see is the CEFA staff that are frontline, that have movement orders that go to incidences and if there is exposure that is recorded, and they do find themselves in a situation like you. We are that the burden of proof is not on them like that, because it's it's quite a lot of work to backtrack through twenty five years of work to remember we you know, the mean work out we were and put all that information together and it's actually having gone through it's a burden that you shouldn't have to carry when you're already dealing with what is a life changing event for your entire family and you are supporting somebody that is terminally ill and will pass away. The enormity of the emotions and the rollercoaster our family has been on cannot be underestimated. And it's such a like I can't tell you when we found out you know, what his illness was, and how sick he was going to get, and how very little time that we had this is a very aggressive cancer. It just took my breath away. And the sense of helplessness around a diagnosis like this is so compounding in your life. But then to have to somehow manage yourself and your family and get all these documents together and go through this process that you know, and as we got through it. You know, we started, I started to really look at that. You know, if he was a firefighter, we wouldn't have to do all that, like, we wouldn't have all this burden as well. And I think the gap is dangerously out of step with community expectations as well as people understand the role of our frontline and emergency responders and the exposure they have in their day to day jobs to protect us. And you know, we're seeing more and more incidents happen with climate change. You know, these fires and emergency situations that we are having are lasting longer, are happening more often, so there's more exposure than ever before. And I think that as a whole, as a community, as a society, we need our frontline workers, and we need every single one of them, but we also need to ensure that they're valued equally and they are supported equally. And I think for me, that is a glaring gap, and it's something that we can and we will fix.

I don't even know how you are holding it together right now in this moment talking about it and also right now in your life dealing with it.

I don't even know how you are holding it together right now in this moment talking about it and also right now in your life dealing with it.

So I'm not really Tiffany. I'll tell you that I I do have a public profile, and I do a lot of frontline work and have for a very long time. And over that decade or more, I've I've you know, developed skills around speaking around what I'm probably not that great today, pretty good our you know, issues that are important to our community, social justice issues, and I've always had that level of distance, if that makes sense, is that you know, it's not always you know, apart from this time, it's not necessarily happening to me or to my family. So one of the reasons that has taken us a while to I guess sort of bring this to a more public light is because there was it was such a heavy load for our entire family that it took us a number of months to work through and get to a point that we could publicly speak about one what was happening, and to the legislation, you know, the pieces around the legislation and what that looks like. Because for us and for as a family, and that you know, as you know Simon and I as life partners, I'll just share something maybe funny, but you know it's like when we first met all those years ago, we probably shouldn't have stayed together. We were absolutely polar opposites, So you know that song and it was around at the time when we were dating. It was polar Abdul opposites attract and it was you know, he liked to smoke and she doesn't, and he likes he's noisy and she's quite well that was us, and that was kind of our It's like like this song was made about us. You drive me crazy and very For such a long time, we were you know, as a very young you know, early twenties, we were sort of we always you know, I guess we're sort of that pull and push of you know, differences that we had, and I think many couples experienced that. And then over time and I can't tell you when, but at some point we started to look at what we had in common rather than what was what we didn't like about each other or how we were opposite. And the one thing that I think has made our relationship really strong, and certainly the work that we've done across both of our careers was our desire to respond to social justice issues in a service response. So Simon has stayed and worked at the CFA, and he's done an incredible amount of work. I can tell you now, the CFA brothers and sisters that have reached out from across the state has been like, yeah, it's just been overwhelming. So many people know him, so many people know his work. He's interacted with an enormous amount of people and had really positive influence engagement in some place change supported work. It's just been I actually knew that he was well known and well supported, but you know, to find out how big that is, it's just blown us all the way. And then support locally from our local brigades and local people is you know, second tan on it. It's been absolutely phenomenal. And then for me, my work has been around grassroots response in the Enabled House and I guess being quite vocal around what happened at the mind Fire and escalating that as a health disaster that was impacting our community. And we still see the legacy of you know, we see the legacy of that today. So it ended up being the common ground the service and the social justice responses and the need to respond was what we had in common. It wasn't the fact that he liked the TV loud and I liked it low and he's you know, you know, it was just you know, he liked to dance and I didn't. And you know, he's far more of an extrovert and I'm more of an introvert. I'm just thinking of the words of the songs. There was a whole bunch in that song. I'd have to play it again, but of opposites, and I don't know. Over the years, and as you get older and you start to appreciate different things about your partner and then realize it's actually not the differences, is my point. It's the you know, and you might only have a few common threads, but they are the powerful things that bring you back home to each other each night, and that you open the bottle of wine and you talk about your day, and you work out, and you map out what's next, and you know that person that's in your corner. And it's because of that that rounding of you know, of that belief that we've had around social justice issues being kinder, you know, there has to be a kinder in a better way, and our commitment to service and to serve. Yeah, so and that's something you know, we've certainly been reflecting on a lot, and we think we really both believe strongly that that is what we'll get this legislation change because we are committed to it, and we will just keep going, you know, until we get it changed and we raise awareness around what it actually looks like for staff that have movement orders that are then out in the field and then our front line at times when our state needs them the most.

So I'm not really Tiffany. I'll tell you that I I do have a public profile, and I do a lot of frontline work and have for a very long time. And over that decade or more, I've I've you know, developed skills around speaking around what I'm probably not that great today, pretty good our you know, issues that are important to our community, social justice issues, and I've always had that level of distance, if that makes sense, is that you know, it's not always you know, apart from this time, it's not necessarily happening to me or to my family. So one of the reasons that has taken us a while to I guess sort of bring this to a more public light is because there was it was such a heavy load for our entire family that it took us a number of months to work through and get to a point that we could publicly speak about one what was happening, and to the legislation, you know, the pieces around the legislation and what that looks like. Because for us and for as a family, and that you know, as you know Simon and I as life partners, I'll just share something maybe funny, but you know it's like when we first met all those years ago, we probably shouldn't have stayed together. We were absolutely polar opposites, So you know that song and it was around at the time when we were dating. It was polar Abdul opposites attract and it was you know, he liked to smoke and she doesn't, and he likes he's noisy and she's quite well that was us, and that was kind of our It's like like this song was made about us. You drive me crazy and very For such a long time, we were you know, as a very young you know, early twenties, we were sort of we always you know, I guess we're sort of that pull and push of you know, differences that we had, and I think many couples experienced that. And then over time and I can't tell you when, but at some point we started to look at what we had in common rather than what was what we didn't like about each other or how we were opposite. And the one thing that I think has made our relationship really strong, and certainly the work that we've done across both of our careers was our desire to respond to social justice issues in a service response. So Simon has stayed and worked at the CFA, and he's done an incredible amount of work. I can tell you now, the CFA brothers and sisters that have reached out from across the state has been like, yeah, it's just been overwhelming. So many people know him, so many people know his work. He's interacted with an enormous amount of people and had really positive influence engagement in some place change supported work. It's just been I actually knew that he was well known and well supported, but you know, to find out how big that is, it's just blown us all the way. And then support locally from our local brigades and local people is you know, second tan on it. It's been absolutely phenomenal. And then for me, my work has been around grassroots response in the Enabled House and I guess being quite vocal around what happened at the mind Fire and escalating that as a health disaster that was impacting our community. And we still see the legacy of you know, we see the legacy of that today. So it ended up being the common ground the service and the social justice responses and the need to respond was what we had in common. It wasn't the fact that he liked the TV loud and I liked it low and he's you know, you know, it was just you know, he liked to dance and I didn't. And you know, he's far more of an extrovert and I'm more of an introvert. I'm just thinking of the words of the songs. There was a whole bunch in that song. I'd have to play it again, but of opposites, and I don't know. Over the years, and as you get older and you start to appreciate different things about your partner and then realize it's actually not the differences, is my point. It's the you know, and you might only have a few common threads, but they are the powerful things that bring you back home to each other each night, and that you open the bottle of wine and you talk about your day, and you work out, and you map out what's next, and you know that person that's in your corner. And it's because of that that rounding of you know, of that belief that we've had around social justice issues being kinder, you know, there has to be a kinder in a better way, and our commitment to service and to serve. Yeah, so and that's something you know, we've certainly been reflecting on a lot, and we think we really both believe strongly that that is what we'll get this legislation change because we are committed to it, and we will just keep going, you know, until we get it changed and we raise awareness around what it actually looks like for staff that have movement orders that are then out in the field and then our front line at times when our state needs them the most.

It's twenty nineteen feels so recent for a change like that as well. Like when you said twenty nineteen, I'm like, that was you yesterday.

It's twenty nineteen feels so recent for a change like that as well. Like when you said twenty nineteen, I'm like, that was you yesterday.

Look, look I guess I'm not really I won't. I won't be across. I know that that was certainly a push during the fire services reform. I'm not across you know, the detail or and there would be reasons why that it was firefighters to start with, and then later DMOS the district mechanical offices have been added, but it falls short in covering the people that are needed on the front line to actually, you know, support our community, our great state when it needs it the most. There are so many pieces to those operational works, and like I said that, we work as one. You know, we hear that a lot, and certainly am I work on the fringes of this, you know, I've heard that a lot over the last decade or more. And I couldn't help but think, but we're not covered as one. You know, we work as one, we are needed, we're all needed as one, but we're you know where the legislation treats some workers differently, and we need to fix that.

Look, look I guess I'm not really I won't. I won't be across. I know that that was certainly a push during the fire services reform. I'm not across you know, the detail or and there would be reasons why that it was firefighters to start with, and then later DMOS the district mechanical offices have been added, but it falls short in covering the people that are needed on the front line to actually, you know, support our community, our great state when it needs it the most. There are so many pieces to those operational works, and like I said that, we work as one. You know, we hear that a lot, and certainly am I work on the fringes of this, you know, I've heard that a lot over the last decade or more. And I couldn't help but think, but we're not covered as one. You know, we work as one, we are needed, we're all needed as one, but we're you know where the legislation treats some workers differently, and we need to fix that.

It's a tough pill to swallow because, like as you were describing it, I was processing and thinking about it, and it's like it it's not like a work cover thing where I'll make and break his leg in footy and be like, oh, just wruck and I'll work cover. You know, it's like and numbers I wouldn't imagine in statistically are enormous that some bloody work cover place is going to be out of pocket for the whole thing. Like, but people are slipping through the cracks and it's not fair.

It's a tough pill to swallow because, like as you were describing it, I was processing and thinking about it, and it's like it it's not like a work cover thing where I'll make and break his leg in footy and be like, oh, just wruck and I'll work cover. You know, it's like and numbers I wouldn't imagine in statistically are enormous that some bloody work cover place is going to be out of pocket for the whole thing. Like, but people are slipping through the cracks and it's not fair.

Oh no, they definitely are. And I think that's the thing. You know, if you know, if we look at a work cover claim and it isn't like you described that, you may have broken a leg or you know, you know and I don't, you know, it is there as a safety net to support workers when injuries and accidents happen, and you know, it's absolutely should be but what we're talking about in terms of terminal illnesses and exposure to carcinogens and toxic smoke things like that. You know, it's very hard for me to wrap my head around how that is. You know, how you navigate that well through a work cover claim as well. And it's been it's been really tricky. So and I probably you know, am not keen to sort of talk about or unpack that too much because you know, it's a whole web that we you know, it's probably too complicated for me to go into. So the safe that safety net is there, but you still have then the burden of proof. So it's then not like I fell off the ladder and broke my leg and do you know what I mean on Wednesday and this is what happened, and my coworker called an ambulance and exposure like these and cancel cancers like these take a very long time you develop in your body, do you know what I mean? Like it's not like you were at an incident and then the next day you have a cancer, and you know, like they take such a long time to come out. So being able to track all your records and where you've been and you know we I mean, I'm guilty of it. You know, you just go to work and you do your thing. I don't necessarily track every thing I've got to do in the day, eat like that, and certainly with my you know, I wouldn't be looking at it going, oh, I must you know, I must make sure I write that down and where I've been and you know, and do all that in case I need it in ten years time, you know, because you're off doing your work, like there's an assumption that you are covered and looked after. But you know, it's a different I guess it's you know, it's it's a very different process to then have to track that amount of time and work to prove exposure as opposed to a single incident. Yeah that has happened. So it's I think, you know, for us, we're really we're really committed to raising the awareness and it has given us a purpose, if that makes any sense. Sometimes when I say it to go as then like we have no control over what is happening to us and what will happen. Simon will lose this battle, and he will lose it soon, you know, in weeks, maybe maybe a month or two, if we're lucky, but you know, he's very, very sick. But having something that we can focus on and a purpose for change is really really important for our family, and it's important for our healing journey, but most importantly, it's vital for the people that come after us. Like it won't make any difference for us, but I think I would can reconcile some of this in my heart when I and when this legislation is changed, when I know that you know, we've improved the safety net for workers after us, Can.

Oh no, they definitely are. And I think that's the thing. You know, if you know, if we look at a work cover claim and it isn't like you described that, you may have broken a leg or you know, you know and I don't, you know, it is there as a safety net to support workers when injuries and accidents happen, and you know, it's absolutely should be but what we're talking about in terms of terminal illnesses and exposure to carcinogens and toxic smoke things like that. You know, it's very hard for me to wrap my head around how that is. You know, how you navigate that well through a work cover claim as well. And it's been it's been really tricky. So and I probably you know, am not keen to sort of talk about or unpack that too much because you know, it's a whole web that we you know, it's probably too complicated for me to go into. So the safe that safety net is there, but you still have then the burden of proof. So it's then not like I fell off the ladder and broke my leg and do you know what I mean on Wednesday and this is what happened, and my coworker called an ambulance and exposure like these and cancel cancers like these take a very long time you develop in your body, do you know what I mean? Like it's not like you were at an incident and then the next day you have a cancer, and you know, like they take such a long time to come out. So being able to track all your records and where you've been and you know we I mean, I'm guilty of it. You know, you just go to work and you do your thing. I don't necessarily track every thing I've got to do in the day, eat like that, and certainly with my you know, I wouldn't be looking at it going, oh, I must you know, I must make sure I write that down and where I've been and you know, and do all that in case I need it in ten years time, you know, because you're off doing your work, like there's an assumption that you are covered and looked after. But you know, it's a different I guess it's you know, it's it's a very different process to then have to track that amount of time and work to prove exposure as opposed to a single incident. Yeah that has happened. So it's I think, you know, for us, we're really we're really committed to raising the awareness and it has given us a purpose, if that makes any sense. Sometimes when I say it to go as then like we have no control over what is happening to us and what will happen. Simon will lose this battle, and he will lose it soon, you know, in weeks, maybe maybe a month or two, if we're lucky, but you know, he's very, very sick. But having something that we can focus on and a purpose for change is really really important for our family, and it's important for our healing journey, but most importantly, it's vital for the people that come after us. Like it won't make any difference for us, but I think I would can reconcile some of this in my heart when I and when this legislation is changed, when I know that you know, we've improved the safety net for workers after us, Can.

I ask what it's like. I'm feel free not to answer any questions. I ask, really, but what's it like to sit in the middle and and process what you know you're in the middle of and when you know you don't even have the time to really process within the time that you've been given, Like it feels so enormous to me, I can't even wrap my mind around.

I ask what it's like. I'm feel free not to answer any questions. I ask, really, but what's it like to sit in the middle and and process what you know you're in the middle of and when you know you don't even have the time to really process within the time that you've been given, Like it feels so enormous to me, I can't even wrap my mind around.

Oh. Look, I when he was first diagnosed, I think I lost a month. I probably lost longer, but I was just constantly in this state of that. I'm gonna sorry, sorry, just dread. Why what does this look like? And I can't even now talk about how it was when we had to how difficult it was to tell the kids and that I have so many unknowns around. It was just it was the hardest thing we have ever had to do as a couple as parents, and just their physical reaction, Oh my god when we told so not just even the emotional but you know, just watching them just fall to the ground. So mostly I'm together, and mostly I'm not. But it's it's just a it's been a rollercoaster of really strong, heightened emotions and some times where you know, I know, for me, like sometimes I'm really focused on something, like when I focus on the legislation change, I can you know, it gives me something concrete to work on. It means my brain's not going, you know, in other places, and I can get out of bed. And then other days it just feels like I can't get out of bed and I'm not going to be able to function today. And They're closer, it gets to the end, and the sicker Simon's becoming, the harder it is to keep it all together because you know what's happening and what what's going to happen, and he's so young, you know, he's fifty six. It just seems like any couples out there and parents out there that are in their fifties and their kids are in their late teens and early twenties. You're kind of getting into your groove, you know, like the kids are really independent and they're finding their own way in life, and you know, we were starting to carve out time for ourselves in different ways, and you know, look at our careers differently, and you know, look at the future, you know, and all of that is gone, like and how we support our children through that has you know, has been our primary primary concern, alongside supporting Simon's health journey. So it's been a lot, and it's meant that I've had to you know, I've made decisions about I've taken some time off work and I'm reducing my workload, you know, so that i can do all the things that I need to do for my family, and part about time to ensure that I can work on having this legislation change, because for me, that is the real it's the only thing that will make any sense out of this whole, sorry, awful thing that we are experiencing, and that is life changing. Like we will lose I'll lose my life partner, the kids are going to lose their father and it's I don't know, you know, I always I've heard stories where people have lost significant family members and the impact that has had and the grieving process and how unfair it is. And you see it all the time in the news when people are just ripped out away from us, you know, in cruel, unimaginable ways, or they've been dealing with illnesses, you know, And I you always look at those situations with your heart open and you can't even imagine what it feels like to be there. And I guess that's the way I viewed it until it was until it's you and then one day, because one day it will be you. So trying to make any sense of it to us has been really about what we can change? Does that make sense?

Oh. Look, I when he was first diagnosed, I think I lost a month. I probably lost longer, but I was just constantly in this state of that. I'm gonna sorry, sorry, just dread. Why what does this look like? And I can't even now talk about how it was when we had to how difficult it was to tell the kids and that I have so many unknowns around. It was just it was the hardest thing we have ever had to do as a couple as parents, and just their physical reaction, Oh my god when we told so not just even the emotional but you know, just watching them just fall to the ground. So mostly I'm together, and mostly I'm not. But it's it's just a it's been a rollercoaster of really strong, heightened emotions and some times where you know, I know, for me, like sometimes I'm really focused on something, like when I focus on the legislation change, I can you know, it gives me something concrete to work on. It means my brain's not going, you know, in other places, and I can get out of bed. And then other days it just feels like I can't get out of bed and I'm not going to be able to function today. And They're closer, it gets to the end, and the sicker Simon's becoming, the harder it is to keep it all together because you know what's happening and what what's going to happen, and he's so young, you know, he's fifty six. It just seems like any couples out there and parents out there that are in their fifties and their kids are in their late teens and early twenties. You're kind of getting into your groove, you know, like the kids are really independent and they're finding their own way in life, and you know, we were starting to carve out time for ourselves in different ways, and you know, look at our careers differently, and you know, look at the future, you know, and all of that is gone, like and how we support our children through that has you know, has been our primary primary concern, alongside supporting Simon's health journey. So it's been a lot, and it's meant that I've had to you know, I've made decisions about I've taken some time off work and I'm reducing my workload, you know, so that i can do all the things that I need to do for my family, and part about time to ensure that I can work on having this legislation change, because for me, that is the real it's the only thing that will make any sense out of this whole, sorry, awful thing that we are experiencing, and that is life changing. Like we will lose I'll lose my life partner, the kids are going to lose their father and it's I don't know, you know, I always I've heard stories where people have lost significant family members and the impact that has had and the grieving process and how unfair it is. And you see it all the time in the news when people are just ripped out away from us, you know, in cruel, unimaginable ways, or they've been dealing with illnesses, you know, And I you always look at those situations with your heart open and you can't even imagine what it feels like to be there. And I guess that's the way I viewed it until it was until it's you and then one day, because one day it will be you. So trying to make any sense of it to us has been really about what we can change? Does that make sense?

Like it does? I met you at in Gippsland.

Like it does? I met you at in Gippsland.

Right, yeah, So I had the girls with hammers with yeah, Karen, Yeah.

Right, yeah, So I had the girls with hammers with yeah, Karen, Yeah.

And what I can't what And this is this is the reality of the stuff I talk about. And I feel like this is an example of an example, a made up example. This is a real life example of something I've said along a lot, which is like here we are in this room that Girls with Hammers a couple of years ago, and I remember being moved to tears hearing this the story from Kate Gail and her daughter and her turning up with that second bout of leukemia, and this gut wrenching story of you know, and you're in the audience, and I'm in the audience, and then now we're here, and it's like, we never know, like you said, we never know, it's never going to be us, and then it's us. And I often say to people, I say, we have these conversations and I host them and I listen, but I don't know what's happening in my life or my body. I don't know what tomorrow. I don't know if there's going to be an accident tomorrow. I don't know if there's something already in my world that I have not been aware of yet. And it's hard to fathom. And when you're faced with it, like I feel so sad and confronted by having that thought and this conversation right now.

And what I can't what And this is this is the reality of the stuff I talk about. And I feel like this is an example of an example, a made up example. This is a real life example of something I've said along a lot, which is like here we are in this room that Girls with Hammers a couple of years ago, and I remember being moved to tears hearing this the story from Kate Gail and her daughter and her turning up with that second bout of leukemia, and this gut wrenching story of you know, and you're in the audience, and I'm in the audience, and then now we're here, and it's like, we never know, like you said, we never know, it's never going to be us, and then it's us. And I often say to people, I say, we have these conversations and I host them and I listen, but I don't know what's happening in my life or my body. I don't know what tomorrow. I don't know if there's going to be an accident tomorrow. I don't know if there's something already in my world that I have not been aware of yet. And it's hard to fathom. And when you're faced with it, like I feel so sad and confronted by having that thought and this conversation right now.

Yeah, I feel that because I have the same issue, like the same experience. When I'm at work. It's that I will hear and be a part of somebody's story for a very you know, for a short time, sometimes a longer time, and I walk beside them in that and I always, you know, just feel so strongly around what you know, they are experiencing. But I can never put myself in that same situation of how deeply painful it is. And you know, I mean, you know, and we can be quite well meaning, you know, to you know, in our support, but we'll never really understand what it's like until it is happening to you. And I think over the last few years, there's been a number of things that have happened in our lives sort of that has really made me realize how finite our time is. You know. A couple of years ago, my best friend was killed in a car accident, and it was like she was literally there one day and then gone the next, and I, you know, we didn't have, you know, those goodbyes, you didn't like she was just cruelly taken. And that took me such a long time to work through. And so when Simon was diagnosed, the one thing that we I guess hung on to at the time is that we we had time to say our goodbyes, We had time to do the things that we wanted to do with our family and prepare our family the best we can and I and that is just really around the practicalities, like there is no preparing for the waves of grief that will be the tsunami in our lives, but you know the practicalities of what we could do to we've done so in very much contrast to what happened to my friend where she was just ripped promise. So it has given us that time and that is something you know, both Simon and I are we're extremely grateful for because you don't know when it's going to be ripped from you. And he's certainly allowed him time to look at what he wants his legacy to be, which is part of this conversation today now where if he had a terrible accident and he was just taken from us, we wouldn't have ever been able to work through the things that we've been able to now or have the time that we have had. So we have been very clear that we don't have a lot of time and it's a finite piece for us, and we needed to do and be everything that we wanted to see in the next time. Twenty years it all happened to happen now, and we had to support our family and make sure our children had the wrap arounds that they're going to need. And so we have been able to do that, and we are really really grateful, but having the experience of both the other flip side of having time. And I'm not sure if this all makes sense to your listeners, and it may, and I've tried to unpack this a little bit. Is as much as we have loved time, we've also hated it because we know we don't like it's every day we are living on the edge, and that the neutral part. I was so grateful We've at least got time. You know, some people don't get time. We've at least got that. And people have said that to me and well meaning, but as I've got through that time's also our enemy and it is live trauma every day knowing that you get up and you don't know is today is today? When it changes, is today the end? You know? How much do I have to fit in today? And the trauma of that now has become a really big piece in our lives is that, you know, Simon hanging on, trying to hang on as long as he can. He wants to be here, and he is fighting and fighting, but the trauma of what that looks like on his body, on his health, on the family is also plays out and when it you know, and it will be abruptly taken from us. So time isn't our friend? Does that make I'm sort makes it perfect? Kind of like this, you know, we're grateful, but and we absolutely are, but there's this other side of it that is actually enemy at the same time.

Yeah, I feel that because I have the same issue, like the same experience. When I'm at work. It's that I will hear and be a part of somebody's story for a very you know, for a short time, sometimes a longer time, and I walk beside them in that and I always, you know, just feel so strongly around what you know, they are experiencing. But I can never put myself in that same situation of how deeply painful it is. And you know, I mean, you know, and we can be quite well meaning, you know, to you know, in our support, but we'll never really understand what it's like until it is happening to you. And I think over the last few years, there's been a number of things that have happened in our lives sort of that has really made me realize how finite our time is. You know. A couple of years ago, my best friend was killed in a car accident, and it was like she was literally there one day and then gone the next, and I, you know, we didn't have, you know, those goodbyes, you didn't like she was just cruelly taken. And that took me such a long time to work through. And so when Simon was diagnosed, the one thing that we I guess hung on to at the time is that we we had time to say our goodbyes, We had time to do the things that we wanted to do with our family and prepare our family the best we can and I and that is just really around the practicalities, like there is no preparing for the waves of grief that will be the tsunami in our lives, but you know the practicalities of what we could do to we've done so in very much contrast to what happened to my friend where she was just ripped promise. So it has given us that time and that is something you know, both Simon and I are we're extremely grateful for because you don't know when it's going to be ripped from you. And he's certainly allowed him time to look at what he wants his legacy to be, which is part of this conversation today now where if he had a terrible accident and he was just taken from us, we wouldn't have ever been able to work through the things that we've been able to now or have the time that we have had. So we have been very clear that we don't have a lot of time and it's a finite piece for us, and we needed to do and be everything that we wanted to see in the next time. Twenty years it all happened to happen now, and we had to support our family and make sure our children had the wrap arounds that they're going to need. And so we have been able to do that, and we are really really grateful, but having the experience of both the other flip side of having time. And I'm not sure if this all makes sense to your listeners, and it may, and I've tried to unpack this a little bit. Is as much as we have loved time, we've also hated it because we know we don't like it's every day we are living on the edge, and that the neutral part. I was so grateful We've at least got time. You know, some people don't get time. We've at least got that. And people have said that to me and well meaning, but as I've got through that time's also our enemy and it is live trauma every day knowing that you get up and you don't know is today is today? When it changes, is today the end? You know? How much do I have to fit in today? And the trauma of that now has become a really big piece in our lives is that, you know, Simon hanging on, trying to hang on as long as he can. He wants to be here, and he is fighting and fighting, but the trauma of what that looks like on his body, on his health, on the family is also plays out and when it you know, and it will be abruptly taken from us. So time isn't our friend? Does that make I'm sort makes it perfect? Kind of like this, you know, we're grateful, but and we absolutely are, but there's this other side of it that is actually enemy at the same time.

Yeah, it's a it's a prison, it's a gift in a prison. And the reality is it's not just it's not just a ticking clock. It's a deteriorating clock where his quality of life goes down.

Yeah, it's a it's a prison, it's a gift in a prison. And the reality is it's not just it's not just a ticking clock. It's a deteriorating clock where his quality of life goes down.

His quality of life is going down as well. Yeah, that's exactly right.

His quality of life is going down as well. Yeah, that's exactly right.

There'll be that confronting moment where you're like, at what point is like, it's it's just hard. I had an auntie that passed from leukemia and her last you know, weeks, months and weeks were really hard to watch, really hard.

There'll be that confronting moment where you're like, at what point is like, it's it's just hard. I had an auntie that passed from leukemia and her last you know, weeks, months and weeks were really hard to watch, really hard.

And then you're on this fine. You know, it's a roll of the dice because you you just don't know when that number is going to come up, that it's going to be today. You know, so that has been you know, it's a gift and an enemy. It's it's it's something that I've really struggled with, especially in the last couple of months, where like I have to actually turn my mind deliberately off from it because it keeps me up at night. You know, am I being ungreatful? I'm so glad we've got time, but I just this is I'm giving me high levels of anxiety and you know, I just know that I don't have time, and you know, you know, I can't explain it, but it just kind of sends my head a little bit crazy. And I just and I don't want to be ungrateful, and I want to be just living in the moment. And that's another thing. That's another thing, living in the moment. I you know, and well meaning good people and you know, and I think that and I have said that to people as well, but that is just the reality is when you're living with and.

And then you're on this fine. You know, it's a roll of the dice because you you just don't know when that number is going to come up, that it's going to be today. You know, so that has been you know, it's a gift and an enemy. It's it's it's something that I've really struggled with, especially in the last couple of months, where like I have to actually turn my mind deliberately off from it because it keeps me up at night. You know, am I being ungreatful? I'm so glad we've got time, but I just this is I'm giving me high levels of anxiety and you know, I just know that I don't have time, and you know, you know, I can't explain it, but it just kind of sends my head a little bit crazy. And I just and I don't want to be ungrateful, and I want to be just living in the moment. And that's another thing. That's another thing, living in the moment. I you know, and well meaning good people and you know, and I think that and I have said that to people as well, but that is just the reality is when you're living with and.

This moment is shit.

This moment is shit.

It's shit.

It's shit.

Like if I could live at any moment, it probably probably wouldn't be my way.

Like if I could live at any moment, it probably probably wouldn't be my way.

You know. I'm just like, we're trying to live in the moment. But oh, you know, it's you know, he can be in agonizing pain and need lots of medication. And you know, the kids are really struggling watching him like this, and we're struggling to support these health needs and like it's not we're not on holidays in Fiji, like it's you know, so there's I think there's different living in the moments, if that makes sense.

You know. I'm just like, we're trying to live in the moment. But oh, you know, it's you know, he can be in agonizing pain and need lots of medication. And you know, the kids are really struggling watching him like this, and we're struggling to support these health needs and like it's not we're not on holidays in Fiji, like it's you know, so there's I think there's different living in the moments, if that makes sense.

So, and I'm sure it's awkward. People don't know what.

So, and I'm sure it's awkward. People don't know what.

To say, yeah, and I I can actually appreciate that, and I keep I've certainly had people say to me they just they don't know what to say or what to do. And the reality is there's nothing that anyone can do, but there's some practicalities people can support with when they want. So I've like we've been really fortunate. And I'll just give a shout out to the local CFA crew that have been absolutely have just jumped in and they're dropping off meals. I had surgery the other week. Simon's in hospital. I've got no one to drive me. Someone drives me to Queue all the way from Gippsland for the surgery. Someone from Trades and Labor picked me up. You know, people have just been making sure we get to those things and that We've got everything that we need around us. So those practicalities are really important. And when people jump in like they have for us, you know, it just means it was really hard for me At first to say I need help like that was huge. I was like, I can't even say that, no, no, no, because my role is to help others and you know, so it was really difficult. And then I've got some conversations and people had reached out, and I thought I have to and I know from my role at the neighbood house one of the really important things you can give people when they're trying to support somebody in crisis is a job. Like when they offer and you say, now I'm more good, which as you go to nobody wants to burden anybody else. It's not that they start to stop offering, but they start to not know how to you know what I mean, There's no direction. So I kept coming back to my work role, going I have to I have to put some words around it. So and I couldn't cook. I've still got some injury. I'll be six weeks before I can do anything useful, and so I just said, I, you know, we can get some meals and honestly, my freezers are full. People are dropping things off, people are buying stuff from a pantry. I'm not sure I'll need to shop again for a while. But those practical things just started to come. And so instead of people talking to me and ringing me saying I don't know what to say, they've actually stopped and they're focused on you know. You know, we've got another delivery of food, We've picked up some toilet paper. You know, do you need help walking the dog? You know, I've got a seventeen year old. I've got you know, one hundred and twenty hours to do for driving lessons. You know, there's some offers around that, like we can help with the driving lessons. You know, we haven't sort of moved into that yet because we've been you know, there's been a lot on, but lots of practical support and help has started to come. When I lifted that, you know that, I guess that up and you know, put words around we do need some help, So they weren't then in that awkward I'm not sure what to say or do, And that has been really freeing for me because when people say to me, I don't know what to say, I almost cry because I don't know what to say like and it puts me, it puts pressure on me. Where now it's really just it's about the practicalities of support. So I would say to anyone that is going through this, but it is I know it's extreme difficult. But if you can put some words around that too, you know a few key people in your life, they will do the rest. They you know, they will come in with the supports that are needed and help you get through that really tough time, and those practicality is will just it's just taken that burden of those awkward conversations away, but it's also allowed people to come in and support us when we when we need it the most.

To say, yeah, and I I can actually appreciate that, and I keep I've certainly had people say to me they just they don't know what to say or what to do. And the reality is there's nothing that anyone can do, but there's some practicalities people can support with when they want. So I've like we've been really fortunate. And I'll just give a shout out to the local CFA crew that have been absolutely have just jumped in and they're dropping off meals. I had surgery the other week. Simon's in hospital. I've got no one to drive me. Someone drives me to Queue all the way from Gippsland for the surgery. Someone from Trades and Labor picked me up. You know, people have just been making sure we get to those things and that We've got everything that we need around us. So those practicalities are really important. And when people jump in like they have for us, you know, it just means it was really hard for me At first to say I need help like that was huge. I was like, I can't even say that, no, no, no, because my role is to help others and you know, so it was really difficult. And then I've got some conversations and people had reached out, and I thought I have to and I know from my role at the neighbood house one of the really important things you can give people when they're trying to support somebody in crisis is a job. Like when they offer and you say, now I'm more good, which as you go to nobody wants to burden anybody else. It's not that they start to stop offering, but they start to not know how to you know what I mean, There's no direction. So I kept coming back to my work role, going I have to I have to put some words around it. So and I couldn't cook. I've still got some injury. I'll be six weeks before I can do anything useful, and so I just said, I, you know, we can get some meals and honestly, my freezers are full. People are dropping things off, people are buying stuff from a pantry. I'm not sure I'll need to shop again for a while. But those practical things just started to come. And so instead of people talking to me and ringing me saying I don't know what to say, they've actually stopped and they're focused on you know. You know, we've got another delivery of food, We've picked up some toilet paper. You know, do you need help walking the dog? You know, I've got a seventeen year old. I've got you know, one hundred and twenty hours to do for driving lessons. You know, there's some offers around that, like we can help with the driving lessons. You know, we haven't sort of moved into that yet because we've been you know, there's been a lot on, but lots of practical support and help has started to come. When I lifted that, you know that, I guess that up and you know, put words around we do need some help, So they weren't then in that awkward I'm not sure what to say or do, And that has been really freeing for me because when people say to me, I don't know what to say, I almost cry because I don't know what to say like and it puts me, it puts pressure on me. Where now it's really just it's about the practicalities of support. So I would say to anyone that is going through this, but it is I know it's extreme difficult. But if you can put some words around that too, you know a few key people in your life, they will do the rest. They you know, they will come in with the supports that are needed and help you get through that really tough time, and those practicality is will just it's just taken that burden of those awkward conversations away, but it's also allowed people to come in and support us when we when we need it the most.

How do you find the with your kids? The age they are, so they're children, but their independent children, they're they're.

How do you find the with your kids? The age they are, so they're children, but their independent children, they're they're.

They're young adults.

They're young adults.

So the role of being the mum and the protector, but also the role of you're you're suffering a significant loss as as an independent woman as well, So how are you navigating that, what that looks like? Who do you need to be.

So the role of being the mum and the protector, but also the role of you're you're suffering a significant loss as as an independent woman as well, So how are you navigating that, what that looks like? Who do you need to be.

So you that That's something that has been quite fluid for me. One of the things that we decided early in the piece is to as difficult as it was, we needed to be very clear and honest with the kids about everything that was happening. So I don't, you know, think there's any point trying to protect them and just causing issues later because they're adults, you know, they're you know, they've got high emotional and intelligence. It's their father. There's no point pretending it's not hurting me or I'll be okay, so because they know I'm not, and it's just and it also I didn't want to model something that wasn't sustainable as well, like it you shouldn't talk about your feelings, because you absolutely should. So we've tried to be open and honest with them, but sometimes we'll be talking and I'll just break down and you know, and it's it really difficult, I know, for them to see me up set like that. But the reality is that I can't be everything to everyone all the time, and I don't want, especially my girls, I don't want them to think that that's how they have to live and be because sometimes you're just not okay and you can't be the mum in that way. You're just emotionally just not able to be there, and so I've tried to make sure that if I am upset that they you know, I'm not hiding that from them, and I'm talking through with them what is going on, and you know what our future looks like. There's lots of questions about you know, what does it look like? Is it okay to talk about a future without dad? And you know, you know, unpacking I can't explain it trying to unpack those things that it is okay, you know. And so for example, my seventeen year old earlier in the PA was worried we might have to move house or you know, will we have to move or do we have to sell the house? Are we going to stay here? So we had those conversations, if we know this is our home, we're staying here, will anchor here? You know, we're not going to move, you know, we'll stay here. You'll do year eleven and twelve, and we're going to get you through that and it might look a bit different for you than the other kids, but we're going to lean on all the supports we can to get you to the atar you need because this is a period in time and it's really awful and it's life changing, but you will have a life after this. You've got to be working towards that. Your father and I don't want you to give up. We don't want you to.

So you that That's something that has been quite fluid for me. One of the things that we decided early in the piece is to as difficult as it was, we needed to be very clear and honest with the kids about everything that was happening. So I don't, you know, think there's any point trying to protect them and just causing issues later because they're adults, you know, they're you know, they've got high emotional and intelligence. It's their father. There's no point pretending it's not hurting me or I'll be okay, so because they know I'm not, and it's just and it also I didn't want to model something that wasn't sustainable as well, like it you shouldn't talk about your feelings, because you absolutely should. So we've tried to be open and honest with them, but sometimes we'll be talking and I'll just break down and you know, and it's it really difficult, I know, for them to see me up set like that. But the reality is that I can't be everything to everyone all the time, and I don't want, especially my girls, I don't want them to think that that's how they have to live and be because sometimes you're just not okay and you can't be the mum in that way. You're just emotionally just not able to be there, and so I've tried to make sure that if I am upset that they you know, I'm not hiding that from them, and I'm talking through with them what is going on, and you know what our future looks like. There's lots of questions about you know, what does it look like? Is it okay to talk about a future without dad? And you know, you know, unpacking I can't explain it trying to unpack those things that it is okay, you know. And so for example, my seventeen year old earlier in the PA was worried we might have to move house or you know, will we have to move or do we have to sell the house? Are we going to stay here? So we had those conversations, if we know this is our home, we're staying here, will anchor here? You know, we're not going to move, you know, we'll stay here. You'll do year eleven and twelve, and we're going to get you through that and it might look a bit different for you than the other kids, but we're going to lean on all the supports we can to get you to the atar you need because this is a period in time and it's really awful and it's life changing, but you will have a life after this. You've got to be working towards that. Your father and I don't want you to give up. We don't want you to.

Not be.

Not be.

Living your best life in the future. So we will work through this now. So being able to have those conversations where they can talk to me and about their fears rational or not, and we can through those and say, you know, like, no, we're not going to be moving. If that's you know, that's a concern for you, I can tell you now, you know we're not. We'll stay here, like this will be the base. So that's just an example of one of the I guess many really you know, tough conversations that I never thought i'd have to have with my kids, and especially as young adults you know, about to go into the world themselves. But I've just had to be prepared to have them and and be vulnerable. And that is, you know, for for a lot of people, and as for parents, it's really challenging to be that vulnerable with your your children and and you know, share those deepest, you know, thoughts and feelings that you're having and that you know, that uncertainty of you know, what's in front of you, and this many times where I just don't know the answers and I'm like, I don't know what it looks like like I you know, I have to be honest about that. I don't know what happens next, but I can tell you the practicalities around these things. Or but you know, I don't know what the grief is going to look like for us and how we're going to navigate our life without Simon. And he's in our lives, he's larger than life in our lives. He's larger than life in many people's lives. So yeah, I just I don't know that I've got good answer for that, but just just do what you can, Like I don't know, I'm just like the best you can because sometimes you just can't do anything.

Living your best life in the future. So we will work through this now. So being able to have those conversations where they can talk to me and about their fears rational or not, and we can through those and say, you know, like, no, we're not going to be moving. If that's you know, that's a concern for you, I can tell you now, you know we're not. We'll stay here, like this will be the base. So that's just an example of one of the I guess many really you know, tough conversations that I never thought i'd have to have with my kids, and especially as young adults you know, about to go into the world themselves. But I've just had to be prepared to have them and and be vulnerable. And that is, you know, for for a lot of people, and as for parents, it's really challenging to be that vulnerable with your your children and and you know, share those deepest, you know, thoughts and feelings that you're having and that you know, that uncertainty of you know, what's in front of you, and this many times where I just don't know the answers and I'm like, I don't know what it looks like like I you know, I have to be honest about that. I don't know what happens next, but I can tell you the practicalities around these things. Or but you know, I don't know what the grief is going to look like for us and how we're going to navigate our life without Simon. And he's in our lives, he's larger than life in our lives. He's larger than life in many people's lives. So yeah, I just I don't know that I've got good answer for that, but just just do what you can, Like I don't know, I'm just like the best you can because sometimes you just can't do anything.

I think you've got a like a really good handle on that part of things, because that was I don't know what I expected. I guess when I get this sense of how for other people you are the You're the person that cares for other people, You're the person that gets it done. So I felt like in the middle of this incredibly intense tsunami as you described it, of emotion trying to make decisions or have any clarity about that would be a mess. But you've, like you sound like you're finding as good a way as you can.

I think you've got a like a really good handle on that part of things, because that was I don't know what I expected. I guess when I get this sense of how for other people you are the You're the person that cares for other people, You're the person that gets it done. So I felt like in the middle of this incredibly intense tsunami as you described it, of emotion trying to make decisions or have any clarity about that would be a mess. But you've, like you sound like you're finding as good a way as you can.

That's that's what we're doing, Just trying. For me, it's just trying to deal with each day and each thing that comes in, but just having some reality around. And I think that it's really important for me that I'm pecking in because sometimes I'm really not sure I'm in the right space to be making decisions. And so I've got a few key people that all ticking with as well, like you just got I think there's like I'm really feeling really crazy today and I'm just not sure what to do on you know, and they'll remind me to take some time, you know, when I feel like I can't take the time. No, you don't have to make that decision now, or yes, I do, you know. But sometimes being able to check in with people because you know, emotionally you just can't regulate in the same way. It's really important to have a couple of key people to be able to do that with. And I feel like I've you know, I've leaned into that a lot as well, and just making sure I've got the supports, you know, you know, last year, I sort of reached out and made sure that I had I've never seen a psychologist before, probably should have long before now, but never have. But I knew as we're you know, we were tapping the kids in and making sure that with those wraparounds were well in place, because it can take such a long time to get those wraparounds for your young people or anyone service light times hideously long. So I wanted to make sure everybody was tapped in earlier. And once I got all, you know, the kids all sorted and you know, Simon's therapy and health needs were sort of in playing, we had some structure around that. The very next thing I did was make a call and book by myself as psychologists to make sure that I had somebody outside of my immediate friend group, because see, you know, and I guess that sort of that mental kind of group, the people that you lean into that was completely independent to that, so that you know, there was somebody else I could check in with as well and maybe say the things that I can't always say when you know you're in your roles and you're trying to support other people and you're also navigating this incredible life changing experience while you're supporting your life partner and their health needs, you know, and the needs are just so intense. You know, there's so much medication. You know, there's lots of supports, there's lots of good days, there's an incredible amount of bad days with pain they can't you know, huge sense an overwhelming sense of helplessness across all of those things. So being able to check in with somebody that's independent and that you know has the skills and the professional support for you is really important as well. So I and again, that is a gift that time gave us. It allowed us to be able to get all those things in place. So yeah, so I guess you know it sort of again speaks to why I'm torn sometimes now about time is a gift, but it's also it's also not so so it gave us the opportunity to really unbat Simon and I by nature, and we're very extra only practical boy scout type material. Were your people in this in a time of emergency. We've got the list, we'll get it all sorted. We do very different roles, but you know, we kind of dive head on into those things and that's where we shine. So when it was then us, that was you know, not only confronting and heartbreaking. We had to really I can remember one night we sat and we had a bottle of wine and just started to really look at what are the what are the practicalities, what are the what are the things that we can control here? And immediately it was things like rewriting our wheels. You know, we hadn't done that since the kids were small, you know, those set and forget things like, you know, checking on your super. I'm only saying this because this is all stuff I've learned along the way. And when we checked the super, you know all those years ago, we put each other's names down, but of course that expires in every three years. I didn't know that. So I've learned lots. So we started, yeah, check check that you're binding nomination. I think it is. I'm not quite sure what the wording is, but it needs to be done every three years otherwise it you know, just falls into your estate and then if you don't have a will, then it goes into probate. So we started to make a list. We made a list of what are the practicalities here? These are the things that we can control, and they were sort of the practicalities. We know, book make sure the kids have got therapists. Now we need to tap them in. How to you know, speak to the schools. Have we done our wills? We really did those, checked our soupers, you know, life insurance, checking on those. The gift of time, you know, we could do the practicalities and that has sort of kind of helped us support the kids through all of this as well, and kind of it's kind of kept me a little bit focused because I can come back to things, if that makes sense, and go all right, now we've checked on that. You know, I don't feel like it's completely out of control because the things I can work on I've you know, we've done and that that's meant now that we you know, we have this time, but we can just concentrate on that and we can work on the pieces around the legislation and we you know, like I'm not. Time gave us the gift of sorting out those practicalities, and it has been it did give us a bit of a sense of control back as well, which I did say, sorry.