Hey, Shadow fam, this is Katherine McNamara. We love being your host for Return to the Shadows, relieving old memories and going back to the good old days of Shadow Hunters. So we're excited to share a very special announcement. We are teaming up with Moment for an exciting live episode of the podcast. It will have all of your favorite things, BTS, stories, place lore, and of course domin me. Nothing mundane, we promise, And the best part is there will be a live chat for some Q and a, some games and more by the Angel We can't wait. Tickets are on sale now at moment dot co slash. Return to the Shadows See you March twenty second, and once again, it's been ever so long, ever so long, twenty four hours. Not even what am I looking for? Oh shadow? You know it's a show about a girl and a bunch of other shadow hunters. And no it wasn't. When I watched it. It It was about really love this young shadow. On two is life destroyed by this irritating redhead? Came out? Oh yeah, well that happens sometimes. It happens maya Maximum Coppa, which happens to be the name of this episode. Very good, so here we are at the second half of This is our our mid season premiere of season two, Season two episode eleven, Maya Maximum copa air date originally June Fish Fish Fish. I didn't even know that was a thing. Oh yeah, I didn't know. June fifth, twenty seventeen. Written by Michael Yay, director Matthew Hastings. Also Yea starring Katain McNamara, Dominic Show, What, Albert Rosetti, math Aarabia Isamastafa and Harry Sham Junior guest starring Alan Ben Sprang, Alexandra Ordolus, Alicia Wainwright, Brett Donahue, David Castro, Mimi Cusic, I think, Will Tutor, Noah Dalton, Danby, Ryan Graham, Chris George, and Jacob Skiba. Oh my goodness, we are getting into the nitty gritty. Oh a favorite people ever on the show. Yeah. This is a new a whole new phase, the whole new world. This is Alex's first episode. Yes, it's Alex's first episode. It's Will's first episode's first episode. No, it's maybe second. Yeah, yeah, no, we met me she could when she tried Isabelle. Yeah, um, and we it's also who is Bretnis episode. No it was Noah's first episode. I think yea, it was Noah's first episode. Maybe. Well, let me tell you what we're in for shadow Hunts and down World is a picking up the pieces off of Valentine's attack on the Institute. Down World and numbers are down, and the different packs and clans debate on what they must do to survive. With Valentine and Custody the Institute on high alert, but Jas carries the heaviest burden of all due to his part in igniting the Soul Sword and the secrets he is keeping from Clary but Jason, the shadow Hunters don't have much time to mourn as the Greater Demon is loose in Manhattan. Meanwhile, Izzie struggles on the road to recovery when she encounters Sebastian, a mysterious yet very handsome stranger. As Simon tries to understand his new daylight to status Wow, lots to unpack, lots to unpack, dive on in this was This episode starts with one of my favorite five scenes we ever did. I was just about to say that I loved this fight scene with you and Matt. It was one of my favorite plan and Matt's such a like athlete. Although so we did introduce the twin hatchets in this episode, which was very good fun. Guy, I got to spread my wings with some different some different martial arts with these in potution. But they have these. So there's the blade on this side, like on the front side, the semicircle, the half moon blade, and then there's a pointed section on the back of it, and there's one cross block in this an overhead. So he comes overhead and I crossed the two axes behind each other and block the thing coming in. And every time the little back blades would just jab into my knuckles and just break the skin, which we didn't really think of, but we very rarely did that block again, I can tell you that much. Was there ever a fecting where you didn't get hurt on the show? Done? No? Not many. No. Look at the sort, did you see There's a tight shot, a tight profile of your face where the blade is in as well, and you can see how beat up the blade of the sort is hard. Oh yeah, and then see it once again another fight where you drop the blades and then you just start going at it. Get to go hand to hand which is good fun. Again, this was another level of martial arts the Matt and I weren't particularly familiar with. But this was really good fun. It was a fun thing to to play around with. You actually see the backs of my knuckles at one point, like like the penultimate move, you can see the backs of my knuckles are still bleeding. But this is an interesting one where there's a motion where my right leg is behind his head and I slam his face into the ground. Yeah, and there's some real trust that has to go into that one. We talk about trust all the time, but that's a concrete floor, Like you get it wrong and you're gonna you're gonna split something open. So to time that correctly. So there's enough pressure that looks like it's he's being forced to the ground, but also for him to restrain himself and do it. M Yeah, man, I worked well together. This was good fun. Yeah. It's another one of those things where I remember how dark alexcited Darren was about this fight too, and just the way that he was building. You know, as the scene built and as the sort of debate progressed between the two of you, so did the fight. And it's about that you know, constant getting getting a fist above the other, very brotherly. Yeah, it's great, it's great fun. And then we progressed to this. So this was another scene that we did on our three sixty blue screen. Well, this was the I guess two hundred and seventy degree one or not. It wasn't quite Yeah, it wasn't quite. It was it was a little little what do you call that, like a promenade stage. Yeah, sure, I don't called that. I don't know, but lovely little park in Brooklyn. This was one of the only there are very few scenes in this show where we get to have Oh, it's just just a nice, normal date. It's just a nice, normal afternoon. And they always felt so odd because it felt like a different show almost, because some people just on a park bench having a conversation. There's a hot dog vendor, and it's just it just feels like, you know, normal mundane life. There's a kid in the back with balloons like he's having a good time. Everyone's good. Yeah, and as always, you know, when a relationship is in a good place, we are going to go south. It is nice, though, to see Simon and Clary just be able to enjoy a moment of peace. We haven't seen that since the pilot. Really Yeah, and not even all the way through the pilot, just like bits of the pilot, this hug we finally got in. This was fun. We were toying with this idea for like ages, Alberta and I and I think we tried to get this hug in like ten different times, and they finally let us do the fake hug thing, which was really good. It was a really cute, cute moment. Yeah. Again, it's one of those things where you find those little moments of physicality that that only happened after working together for years. Oh, this is the first time we get to see the catacombs jail cell mhmm. Yeah. They built this for this for this scene, and then we kept them for quite some time. Yeah, this is a cool scene watching Mimi and Alan like Canadian like acting royalty go off for each other's like a master class of ability. Like these guys are so good with each other. It's unreal when I'm such huge bands of both of them, you know, pre the show, just from watching their passwork and it's it was always my favorite thing to get to just sit on set and watch them do their thing. Another fun fact about this set that viewers may or may not know is that all of the tombs and all of the names on the catacombs are our crew. So the big ones on the floor are our directors of photography and our producers and things like this, and then all of the catacombs is the hair and nake up department, in the grips, in our ad department, and our you know, our entire crew all got their names somewhere in the catacombs. If you look closely, might fail to catch it. In fact, there were a couple of cool little set pieces here, So one an interesting thing. Someone decided at some point down the line that the floors not in this episode because the floors are dry, but in the at some point during using this they decided that the floors looked better wet than they did dry. Yeah, which was a nightmare. I think Will has a fight scene, like a pretty intense fight scene the Darren doubled him for in this, and the floors are wet like it's a nightmare, and it's a slick floor anyway, I definitely had a couple where I had to run on it. And you guys are in heels the whole time like it was. It was actually really hard work. And then the glass, the glass window to the jail cell was actually three or four pieces of glass that sat into each other and they would angle it depending on where the shot needed to avoid the season one fiasco of the reflections feelings, so they would they would tilt them, but we were forbade from touching it so to leave fingerprints, to avoid leaving fingerprints on the glass, because there was constantly someone there with windex and a rag, just like making sure they were spotless. Yeah, because every time somebody would walk by or Lenardo don't have to step out of the way that those fingerprints show up so much, or anytime it would get angled just the slightest dish, they'd have to come in and completely reset the whole thing. But on the note of the floors, I am. You know they when you're walking through a set, shoes are allowed, and sets are often not. The floors are kind of hollow because they're built up, so you make a lot of noise when you walk sometimes, so they'll put foam on the bottom of your shoes to dampen the sound a bit for so you don't have to readr the entire scene of dialogue. So often I would have old patches of foam on the bottoms of my boots, and then when I would come into this set that had the wet floor, it would just become ice skates. It's like, yeah, and number of times I fell down just trying to walk across the floor. It was absolutely insane. But let's see what these folks are. These kind folks are talking about as we we just I love that we just stroll in in the middle of an interrogation. Yeah, you know, he's mid getting tortured and we're like, hey, how's it going? Like, oh hey, dad, what's up? How's it going? I do love how much they use the reflections though, and when they do when they have this set just using our reflections there with me, me and Allen. It's just this is torture scene, so I guess it's like a torture run. But it's showing him, like it's called is he causing him a lot of physical pain, But it's also showing him a past, like a past that he's that hurts him. Yeah. The assumption here, of course, being that it's me. It's a younger version of me, although no, we know that that's not the case. Now, so who is this kid supposed to be? No, he did still raise me, Yeah he didn't. It's not his son. So fucking making sense now. When she does the ruin, he has flashes to a little blond kid. No, that's not you, that's not me. That one's not you, because that is what that is is that's him sending Jonathan to eat him. No. I know that the audience doesn't know that now, but I think it's supposed to be portrayed that that is potentially me because we haven't been introduced to the person who that is, right, Yes, potentially you in this moment, in this moment, yes, And then Mimi's pissed. Yeah, it's like, no, sorry, we're not doing you how to do your job. Just sorry. I lost the sword. I didn't know what did it do to it. It damaged it, but we don't know what it did. It just deactivated it. You know, I have a feeling it just it's sort of breaking it enough not to destroy it, but enough to so it doesn't work. You know, it disconnected the second maybe as it were, I'm putting some kind of buffer on the magic as Reel. Is that as Reel? Yeah, Asaizel, that's it. So something funny about this that I don't know if you remember Asazel wasn't his original name in the script. No, originally his name was Originally it was Reman. And there came a point during the beginning of this episode where I went, does anyone realize that we have that we've set up this guy as rem and the Demon from Edom? Yeah? Is that on purpose? So do we want to change that? Because I knew at some point during the episode, I'm like, somebody's going to have to say rem and the Demon from Edom, and then that's going to be what the episode's about is. Yeah, it's it's less badass for sure. Yeah, this wonderful like stillness to the way he was so brutal, which I think is fantastic. Yeah. Again, there's so many incredible actors in Toronto that we got to use. They just brought them in and they just completely owned the moments that they had and just fully committed to what it is that they were doing while drinking a whiskey. Man, while drinking a whiskey, I don't think we ever went to this bar like as people like, why didn't we ever go to this bar? I did once with them, with Isaiah and some folks. Yeah, during the when he was shooting it. We went there with a bunch of folks and I think you guys met us for ping pong after Got It, Got It, Got It? Yeah, Oh, dear is he's in withdrawals? Yeah, this is the episode where they put the camera on her or no, they give her the rega. I can't remember. She does such a good job. Oh yeah, she's in it right now. She just sat up into it. Can Shadow Hunters get the flu? Though? Because Alec, you know, Alec covered for her by saying that she has the flu. Yeah, I mean you would think that the Nurazi would probably take care of it, although I'm sure there's sort of down world disease that's equally terrible. That's true. I mean, you know, with anything that we've seen in the last three years, diseases tall the time. Yeah, yeah, that was clever. There's we should have talked to John about this. That was a clever transition through the doors of the Jade Wolf because that is set on the inside, which actually is almost directly behind that door that the camera panned into. But the jade wolf set was oriented this way and the door was oriented this way, so there's no way you could have done that. So they matched the two shots together so it looked like you went through the door, which was very clever. But they were they were oriented, they were perpendicular to each other, so you couldn't have done it any other way. Tricks of the trade. M M. I feel like the kitchens knew as well. We've had the kitchen a couple of times because I had a conversation in there about clear Fusum a few episodes ago. But I do love that they've just hired a kitchen staff. Yeah, just it's not a function restaurant, but it's a kitchen staff that just like just feed the food for the wear wolves all day. I wonder if they know that they were wolves? Yeah, do you think they know? They might be like like um werewolf wannabes, like like familiars for vampires, you know what I mean. Maybe if they make good duck pancakes they get turned into a werewolf. They're just wearwolf grouppies. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh the man. There's an uprising within the down world. So Russell, played by the lovely Noah. This is this always got me. Noah was the sweetest, most just such a zen softly dude, and he plays this absolutely aggro. But no, he's just he's like a big teddy bear. No, he's big old softy. Yeah. This crime scene is fun because another little like in the behind the scenes thing. I don't know if it's in the episode or not. When Ali comes in, I think it's Matt and I together step out of her way because she technically can't see us. Yeah, so if she physically hit us, then that would look weird. So we we just take a step back like it's nothing, keep doing our job. But it was. It was a fun like addition to be able to sort of flourish these parts of the world that makes sense to us, you know. Yeah, well, and yeah, you guys just move around her. I feel like there was no body there either, because the body was blamored as well, not on the floor, but the rest of them would have been there because there's only two shadow Hunters obviously the rest of them are all gone as there's a lot of dead people there. It is. Yeah, both just kind of do a little lean. There's the little lean. Yeah, because otherwise the air would be disturbed as well, so you know she would feel something you feel, somebody moved by you. Oh, here we go, as well as trying to put herself together. You can do a baby girl. Where does she go? Where is she? She's in her to see Raphael? Yeah, she's in her room right, hiding out and then she goes to see Raphael. Yeah, trying to get another six. Girl, you were almost you're going through withdrawals. Just just push through, man, Yeah, she needs to push through. But then the reality is like the door should have been locked or something like. It's not a nice way of doing it, but like you do have to I think sweat it out, like based on my very brief medical knowledge of how this works, she does. Ah, she's so like entrancing in this. Like I think it's always so interesting to see the powerful characters fall from Grace, or not even from Grace, just to see them like fallen broken. Yeah, And Isabelle is arguably like our strongest character from the beginning. She's so strong willed and she knows what she wants and who she is and what she's going after. And see her in this state is really something special. And I said it a thousand times before. But she does such a good job. Yeah, Isabelle so unflappable. And then to see just the lengths to which she goes and she's the one who always carries herself and has this kind of mask, and to see that fall, it's really interesting. Oh, I forgot she tried to stab In. She tries to. Oh yeah, look at that. She wouldn't do it. She's too much of a good guy. She can't do it. She can't do it. She loves him, she loves him. Tragic gas leak, you know, happens in New York. It makes people's brain explode. Can you imagine if that in New York would be like the biggest the biggest city disaster, like internally within the city since like the blackouts exactly? Oh man, See, we so rarely get to see this um the projections up out of the table, Yeah, big war table. You never get to see any of these other greater demons. Nope, just a great job by the art department. Someone drew these awesome greater demons and that's all we see of them, although one of them I think was like the worm thing that we see in season three. Oh, that's true. You're right, I would really love to. I've already lost count. But the number of times that somebody references me as your sister in front of you and you don't say anything in this episode because we're just having a conversation. I'm like, hey, listen, let's talk. I know something's off. I'm your sister, and you're like, hm, I go by, I'm gonna go talk to these guys over here? Is this is Azel again? This is isabel No, it's Isabelle and Sebastian of the water. Only will Tutor here we go? Oh, Izzie, shouldn't it be the Cadillac in the stem she's outside like a grutty vampire. Then okay, hey, Azazel, she's not. She's not the shadow hunter you want. This poor cyclist is about to not do very well. The cyclist and the chef, the well meaning cyclist and the chef who are popping out just to save the day. Nah, and a pedestrian behind the cyclist. Oh man, all three of them. But here he comes to save the fricking day. Don't don't, don't, don't, don't don't nice? What does he turn into? Is that moths? Uh? I think it was meant to be like maggots or moths or you know, some kind of way to go. Who are you? Yeah it is Sebastian had a boy. My name is Sebastian. Yeah, I had a boy. Yeah. Who does Maureen come back into the show? She just got referenced. Yeah. I don't think she ever comes back. Honestly, she was on another job, so she was. But in the books, Maureen actually comes back, and it's a version of the Heidi character because she she tries to find Simon, gets obsessed, gets turned into a vampire, and becomes this like creepy vampire child kind of um towards the end of the books. Who kidnapped Simon and such? Later on? But I don't think we ever get to see her again. He almost slips up here. Simon. Come on, pal, you've got to be better than this. You can't just go to the pub in the daylight when you're trying to keep this a secret. Come on, man. Oh, he does just give away the fum. He just didn't say it was Jason. I'll bless his heart. He kept Jase's secret. See, good guy. Jason knows he's a good guy deep down, deep deep, deep down. Oh yeah, and see it's it's Maya that goes hey more to the from one down world or to another. Probably don't yeh. Don't let the world know that you've got the golden ticket, literally, because then everyone's gonna, you know, start drinking shadow hundred blood. M that would be if you think about it, if all the vampires found out that if you drink a certain kind of shadow hundred blood you can walk in the daylight, that then it would just be all at war. Yeah, seen the vampire there's nothing that would stopped them. Yeah, no, to find that one shadow hunter. Yeah, m and then they just keep me alive with my blood flying for as long as possible. Oh that sounds dreadful. Yeah, oh okay, So this it's the moths turned into the sand. And then so it's that sand is from a specific realm of Edom that's dud Waddle. That Yeah, it's um because I remember we went from him and the Deanamon from Edom to Azazel from Dudowaddle, Asaizel from Doodwaddle. I love it. It's the worst dimension of how been shackled? Do we ever figure out how he got out? I believe it had something to do with when Sebastian couple snuck out with Sebastian. Mm hmm interesting interesting, Well, spoilers for later Sebastian might not be baby they kyears. Oh, come on, Alec, Rafael is trying to help, don't be better. Raphael has kind of a tough time as well. Like I say, every time, it's he's trying to be a hero. He's trying to do the right thing, but he just is always in the wrong place the wrong time. Yeah, not always often, Yeah, but like even the first time we meet him, he's trying to sort of help in his own way. Well that's not true, not right when we meet him, but then he does kind of the first time. The first time, he's kind of a dick. Magnus pain p. Yeah, you don't do it. Yeah, you see him with his like outdoor closed. We don't see Magnus outdoors as often as I would like, No, But he's got like a Sherlocky trench coat on it. I into it. Yeah, Clary I thought, as he was had the flu, why would she leave? What's going on? I don't understand, Oh, Clary, Clary, we had big board table and mini war table. Yeah, we did have We had, Yeah, we had hollow table and war table. Oh no, we used yeah, we used both as the war table. You're right, yeah, Okay, I remember this scene in particular. You two could not stop laughing at each other. Yeah, this happened. This is one of those days. It was. I think we'd spent all day in that room and it was just one of those moments where we're like, just put us somewhere else. Okay, this this is one of my favorite scenes. Maybe that turns out. Yeah, I didn't realize it came out this quickly after me finding out a few episodes of it, but it felt longer because there was the mid season break, you know, so there's a long time between airing. Um let's just the kiddo's face and off against Valentine. Anytime, getting to work with Alan and doing one of these cat and mouse scenes, it's just the most fun. Oh, because Valentine still has the mortal cut somewhere somewhere, and Asaizel won't give Izzy back until or so we think we think Asaizel has Iszebelle. Yeah. I just love that Valentine goes yeah, you know, being in in the custody of a demon of hell would be better than Yeah, right now, that's got to tell you what shadow Hunter torture is. Like, Chase is your son? You hurt him plenty. Oh shit, here comes the question mark and the smile. Alan, Oh, be still my beating heart. That's not my father. What a punch was really something as well, Like having someone get that close to your face with a fist while you're shackled is terrifying. Like it's a really horrifying experience. You could just tell a girl, Oh, it's happening. Now. We'd started using slow motion a lot more of the high speed cameras. We used those a lot more in this season. I think Matt Hastings had some new toys and was having fun. It's the same, It's it's always. This is something we talked about a lot in season one, and it comes back into play this season with the Morgan Sterns versus the light Woods and kind of the different ways in which they were raised and the different ways in which their powers can be utilize, specifically emotions clouding judgment versus emotions fueling your powers and serving a purpose. And it's this constant thing that Jason Clary are at odds about and we haven't we haven't seen that in a while. Ah, yes, Sebastian Vlac and his swanky apartment, another beautiful New York apartment. Yeah, must becauseing them God damn fortune. It was so awesome having Will just come, you know, he did this so beautifully, and he came to Toronto and dove right in with the story with He was so excited because he gets to do so much in this episode, as we get to see in a few minutes, but in diving in with you guys and figuring out the whole what it meant to be raised by Valentine and that physicality and everything, and then and diving into the mythology of the story and the whole world. It was great. Well. I also, i'd known Will for like ten something years at this point. Yeah, no, probably not quite when he joined the show, like six or seven years. I've known well, Will and I work together in London those many years ago, so I think, yeah, I mean, I know from personal experience, having a semi friendly face on sets it's very useful when you're joining something new, you know, it's so fortunate to have a mysterious stranger just whisk you away to his lovely apartment and give you the cure to your addiction and also be addicted to the same thing. It's almost like it's too good to be true. Make you a lovely meal. I know what. Look at that face. I'd trust him to see. That's the thing with Well is is that's why this worked so well, I think. And with Luke too, it's um got a trusting face. Do you think Luke has a trusting face? Oh? Maybe it's just because I know Luke. I don't know. Yeah, there's no way, no way. Him and I have spoken about this so many times. There's no fucking way, Like, and he'll say this when he comes on like this, zero chance I would trust him from a distance. No way. We'll have to reach out so Well and Luke and get them on the show soon. Definitely we should get them on together. I'd love it. I'd love to do each of them separate. Believe then, I think Morgan stern Sibling Roundtable would be a fun bonus up play like family feud games. And here we have let's get to know the new uh, the new sidekick. The new sidekick. She's one of those characters that you see just getting on Luke's nerves just enough, being just slightly charming enough to just get under his game. Is she's and Alex was very charming as well, like she was such a wonderful woman to work with, but she died Like she she actually is very much like this character. She's very very likable. I just love how she immediately thinks that Maya is Luke's girlfriend, and Maya this is going what it's It serves similar to when Irish thought Alec and Clary were dating it. Yeah, m m no, definitely not. So what's happening here is because of Luke's actions during the Soul sort of it all. There's a little unrest in the werewolves and Russell is trying to form his own pack and they've asked my eye again and she, you know, it's it's a tough spot to be in because you want to have the security and the safety being in a pack because that's you know, by nature of what they do as wolves. But it's um, it's her dad kind of you know. Oh see there's this balcony again. Yeah, so this was that So maybe the last time we saw it when they were disabling the power source was the first time we'd seen it, and then they expanded it to this for the scene. I think that's what it was. Oh, were fun scenes as well, like this is such a Matt thing, like he Matt's very good at sensing when you're down, and he's very good at comforting you by doing very little. Yea, and this I think the original version of this scene had a lot of had quite a bit of dialogue back and forth, and it all just got scrapped and became just this silent moment between the two of them, like they both know what's going on. With or without their bond, they would know what's going on. Yeah, it was so smart to do that because it's you know it really we haven't seen these two just have a moment and so long and it's such an important relationship and just giving again, seeing these characters that are so strong have these moments of vulnerability and these moments of humanity. That's what makes the show have such resonance for people. I think. And he can cook. He can cook too, I mean, my goodness, Sebastian, marry me, stop it. What's not to love? What's not to love? And again, there's just these little moments where watching it you know, having seen it and knowing what happens watching it again, there's little moments where you go it is that I don't know, it's just a flash behind the eyes. It's so well yeah, so well chosen. And again it is nice to just as the first scene with you know, Simon and Clary on the park bench, it's nice to see Isabelle just with her guard down for a moment. She's been going through so much and had so much to deal with in battle and handle. She just gets to be a person. Yeah, she gets to chill out. And she shouldn't be She should have a god all the way the fuck up. But well we don't know that yet. But we don't know that yet exactly. Oh finds out that Um, does he say he's an orphan or does he say that? Yeah, he just says she's gone now, so he knows says anything about his father? Mmm? Does he know from the beginning? Does he know? He knows? Yeah, he knows because he's he's the only one of the Morgan Stern kids, or the children that were raised by Valentine that knows everything right, right right, because he's the eldest and he's the one who was put through it first and basically had to sit in eat him for ten years, right right right, you know, and knowing that his father sent him there because he couldn't control his demonic abilities. Got it. Boat basin, boat basin, Little Simon Raphael action, which is fun. I like that this season we got to see more of his musician side. This is fun. It just gets me every time Raphael just shows up in everywhere because he's such a stealthy vampire. It's still scared Simon, even though he has vampiering. And it's such a characterful choice that Alberto mode, because I think that was an Alberto thing. I don't think that was a scripted thing. Yeah, but I wasn't at Hunter's moon. I don't. I don't know. It's somebody's smoking something, somebody's on the infant. Yeah, come on, buddy, you've got to be better than that. He's you've been a vampire for two weeks. That's what he just says. You've been a vampire for two weeks. The current stage of our story, how far we've got so twenty three episodes, twenty four after this one of TV has been over two weeks a two weeks ban people. That's what's happened, and just let's just think about that for a moment. You find out you're the supernatural being. You find out that your father is evil, your mother disappears, you're you meet this guy, your best friend becomes of dies, becomes a vampire. You find out your dad's awareable, your other dad's awareable of think about everyone else's story. Like Alberto Alberto Simon literally did die, comes back as a supernatural being the need for blood. Then it, within two weeks has become a limited version, seemingly extinct version of this being. Alec discovered that he was gay, fell in love, got engaged, tore apart his wedding, got engaged, and was about to get married. Even that is far fetched enough. That you planned a wedding in less than two weeks is fucking nuts. So the whole thing apart, fell in love with the love of his life, Thank goodness, But a lot fucking happened in these two weeks. Jason finds this person, saves her life a couple of times, falls in love, finds out he's her sister. Jason weeks are really rough. If I remember correctly, I feel like his next two weeks get worse. Yeah, I think so. I think you're it this mask man. Okay, can we talk this whole fucking scene. We talk about the fucking pussy willows man. So we we this First of all, this scene is about to get very intense. We've just summoned as as A and tension is high as is you know, it's a big mission. We know where this is going to go, and it ends with a lot of screaming. We all sort of get semi torchre and it ends with a lot of screaming. Screaming is hard work in general. You hyperventilate, it's bad for your throat, it you get torn up, you know whatever. Probably five six hours, no kidding, like, we screamed for five or six hours, and each of those takes was at like thirty or forty seconds long because they had to do all of the action behind. So we're screaming, screaming, screaming at the top of our lungs. You know, we ask very often the question is what level of pain are we at? And and doctors actually hopefully you haven't been unfortunate enough to ever see this scale, but they actually have a scale head a doctor's office that says one through ten, and they have pictures of your face, so like this is a one and your face is sort of semi normal, and then a ten is like screaming and crying whatever. And everyone was told in this senior at ten, this is this is the most pain that you're going to go through. Them We're like, okay, great, And then they filled the room with these little it's for those who don't know the best way to describe them, they're called pussy willows, and they're like like a dandelion, like that you blow a dandelion. It's like those little things. But they filled the rod with like bags and bags, like trash bags, giant trash bags of this stuff, and then turn the fans on so they were all up in the air and it looked, you know, it looks great. We were coughing them up, no kidding, because we breathed so many of them in. I was coughing them up for about a week. I was coughing them up and they were in the back of my sinus. You can't see. Every time you open your eyes, they go in your eyes. It was a fucking nightmare. And I left this scene like I don't ever want to see one of these ever again. I don't want to see one in real life. I don't want to see one on set. This was hands down. I don't know why we don't talk about this much when people ask what was the hardest scene for you to do? Because this is up there. This was really hard team to do well. And do you also remember that we had to reshoot part of it. We did this on Yeah, we did this on a Friday, and then on the Monday we had to come back and finish it because we ran out a time, and I just remember, all, can we can we just go another hour or something and just finish it so we don't have to do this again. Yeah, I don't want to do it ever again. But on the one silly it really was. But the one silly bit that um, I try and find a silver lining and things, and I try and make things fun even when they're not. So when we came back to do this scene, Matt and I just kind of because our clothes were clean. Obviously it had been a few days since we've done it, so they'd washed our clothes and all the dirt and dust and fluff was all off of them. So Matt and I just kind of looked at each other and went all right and just rolled around in the dust that they'd left on the floor. Just sometimes you got to do it. Yeah, that fits, and this mask. At least Alan had the mask. Yeah, yeah, you know, maybe it wasn't as bad for him. There they are, here come the pussy willows. See them all over Harry's face and they like, yeah, they broke down so they didn't stay in like chunks. It looks like it does look fantastic on camera, but fuck, this was awful. Okay. Can we talk just for a second about the when Harry does this magic and he starts the summoning, there's a bit of a kind of jerky camera situation, and if I remember correctly, this is something that was new for this season for the show. It was they had, wasn't it the film camera that they would go forwards and backwards and forwards, So they would roll the film forward and backwards manually a bunch of times to kind of layer it over each other, and then when they play it back in this moment, it looks it's sort of is that stop motion kind of magic where Magnus is in six places at once, which I think it's so characterful. I was either Glen or rus idea. I'm pretty sure. I think you're right. We'll have to ask Tru about it. There's also, I don't know if it's this, there's something about this season on to the end of the show. There's a weight to the lighting of the show, and there's a darkness to it that it's everything is richer but darker somehow, and it's Yeah. I remember that was our like two fucking buzzwords for all of the press for season two and three. It's darker and something else. There were two words that we kept repeating, and I was like, oh yeah, convention like four I was like, we got to think some fucking synonyms for the ship. I can't do another four hour convention where I tell people like it's darker and more sinister again and again and again. But I think too it's It was a great choice because it spoke to kind of the weight of the world and the impending darkness that was happening around us. And here comes Clary again, storming through the doors of the Institute to do something. This is sa funny. It's such an interesting like this happens to us A bunch of time where you're like, oh, yeah, you can just use this run power that I've had for fucking seven hours. Let me just yeah, I'll just figure this thing out. Like I'm sure that this thing is going to work. No, it doesn't. You know why because you've used it three times. You've used it three fucking times. You have no clue if any of this ship is going to work, Like so that you broke the sword you this time. It doesn't work later on in I think two B or three A, you portal us underwater. It's fucking nuts. Yeah, while she's learning, you know she's learning, but maybe you spend some time practicing in like we have like a super high tech training facility. You didn't at any point be like, let me try this thing out. Let's see if this is gonna work. I'm just watching us, all of us writhe and pain, Yeah, lots and lots of pain. Is this where we get to see your eyes for the first time? This is where we get to see the gold eyes for the first time. So this was I think we've mentioned it once before again. The guys from folks Weavex did an amazing job with both the ruins and this um, but this we were leaving a viewing. We were leaving like a watching a free form and Matt Hastings was there and I said, oh, you got to see just the briefest of flashes of my underwear there. I think I'm wearing bright red underwear. Does not look correct for the yet to seeing my boxes? Yeah, there they are there? You go? You never noticed that? What can you do? Um? And we were I was talking about Hastings and I said, hey man, we're literally on our way out in the corridor, and hey man, just a quick thought. When these rooms activate we read the script, maybe maybe we can do a thing with my eyes where they flashed gold as a little sort of nod to the to the book fans, because Jase has gold eyes in the books. And he was like literally just went great, love it, we're putting it in. Yeah. They were like okay, gold. And then it was the story point throughout which I was glad that we got to do. I was, I'm glad when we get to give these a little sort of small book references in there. Well that's still alive. Are we just leaving him there? Oh? Yeah, okay, he can just stay there. Yeah. I just thought we were just walking away. Oh oh, do you remember what happens there? Do you remember what zaisil does? Hm? He's because did you see Valentine's help me, help me? I do remember, I do remember. Valentine is no longer Valentine. Valentine. Well, Valentine is Valentine. It doesn't look like Valentine. Yeah. Well okay, just look at the way Harry's walking down this hallway. So good, so good. I get to have scenes with him whilst he's in this in this position. I remember it being like even his vocal quality change and I was like, fuck, this is good. Oh man, this is so good. I remember hearing it at the table road for the first time and I lost my mind, just because both of them had clearly done their homework and put so much effort into the fun that they were going to have spoilers. So good for another day. Yeah, yeah, yeah, Oh I love it when Alex smiles. Yeah, finally getting on the phone with Izzie. The softy is what he is. He pretends not to be, but he's a big old softy matto. He's cooking. He's not eavesdropping on your conversation. Don't worry about Yeah, he's definitely not listening to this. Just quite a great dam and you're like, oh shit, selling the farm. Come on, is that why they had to break the necklace because it would have been flashing if it would have been flashing around him? Right? Yeah, yeah, when you send the first time, this is the first time we get to see Sebastian's propensity for pain, pain, and the sort of enjoyment slash self punishment thereof. You know, he's it seems like he's cooking or cleaning the kitchen and he turns around and he's just roasting his own hand roast in his hand. Oh this is interesting, So well, we'll talk about that a minute. I really, I was this is one of my favorite scenes in this episode. I remember when I read it the first time. I was so happy that it's one of those rare times where Jason Clary have an honest conversation and are actually able to set all the drama and all the world ending events side and go, hey, listen, let's just get on the same page here. And it's yeah, nice moment and the only time I ever got to wear that jacket hotly. Yeah, I was noticing there's a lot of frilling on this jacket. I don't know how useful it would be to an actual shadow Hunter, you know what I mean. I feel like there's a lot of stuff that would be in the way. Yeah. What's one of those things that Shelley, our costume designer, did, was could ride that line between the artists from Brooklyn and the shadow Hunter. And there were moments, particularly when she was dating Signon, that it sort of started to steer back toward the old Clary that we saw Choker see there you go. And also sidebar, what are these angelic abilities that we have and how do they work? Why don't they always work? I don't think I ever figure it out. Nope, because nobody knows that this is like a thing that exists. Nobody's had pure angel blood since like the first angel. Yeah, it's never happened before. Oh man, well there you go. I was really disappointed though, because this so the beginning of the next episode starts with a certain moment that we'll see later. But there was a scene that kind of transitioned it. And there was a lovely scene at the end of this episode that they actually released images for, like production stills for, but then they cut the scene where Clary went to go see Signon and he had organized this beautiful date and I think, if I'm correct, it's something they pulled from the books, because he'd gotten Clary's favorite pizza and had just blood for him and had done the whole thing, like set up the whole date, and it was just a nice moment again to one more time have this their relationship as a whole. But then to kind of see Clary Clary fully making the choice, knowing that Jas was her brother, knowing all of this information to go, No, this is where I'm at, and this is where my feelings are at this point, and I'm committed to this relationship. God, Harry is so brilliant. He is brilliant. Where's it going to go? Who knows? You're gonna have to tune in next week or however frequent we air these, I don't know, next rewatch to find out what's going on man the world. As soon as we think we know what's going on in the Shadow World, everything changes, yea. But always always seen a lot of new mysterious changers and new mysterious friendships. Perhaps, Yeah, like the next episode is there's a lot goes on. I also, I like I messed up with the lamest of stunts. It was It's like a little why. It wasn't even a wire pool. It was a self propelled and I have these big, heavy like handcuff chains on and as I landed, I was fine when I landed, and then I released the tension in my shoulders and dropped the heavy handcuffs and just knocked all the wind out of me. And Darren and Dean were like you okay, and I was like yeah when when we get to it as always thank you everyone for listening and tuning in. It's always a pleasure to talk to you and hope you're having a good week. I love you, See you next time. Return to the Shadows is hosted and an executive produced by Me, Katherine McNamara, and Dominic Sherwood. Our executive producer is Lingley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our producers are Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermillia, and our intern is Sam Kat's. Original music by Alex Kinsey and performed by Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara