Hey, shadow fam, this is Katherine McNamara. We love being your host for Return to the Shadows, relieving old memories and going back to the good old days of shadow Hunters. So we're excited to share a very special announcement. We are teaming up with Moment for an exciting live episode of the podcast. It will have all of your favorite things, BTS, stories, place lore, and of course domin Me. Nothing mundane, we promise, And the best part is there will be a live chat for some Q and A, some games and more by the Angel. We can't wait. Tickets are on sale now at moment dot com. Slash Return to the Shadows See you March twenty second. Hello, Hey buddy, Yo, what's going on? Look at you guys? How's a guy? I think the last time the three of us were all together alone was when Cat scared the shit out of us? Kidding? Hey, we should we should get into that, because that arguably is the worst. Like I have night terrors, like I have full night terrors about that. I'm very sorry. We should talk about the new look first of all, but I want to dive in. I want to go in strong with the new look. This beard is really something sir, I'm a jealous boy. I'm a jealous boy right now. That's where I'm at. It's out of control. No, it looks great. Is this Is this by choice? Or is this for something? Well, I mean not that I wouldn't do it, but no, it's it's yeah, it's for the show. So that's cool. Yeah, it's different. Well, welcome back, folks, to return to the Shadows. Today, we have one of the most special guests that we could possibly have on the show. He is Papa Wolf. He is the dad of not only the cast, but the fandom and one of our all time favorite people. Please welcome Isaiah Mustafa. Yo, what's going on? Fandom fundy, you're just started. You're gonna have to back up the dog, none of you, guys. I know there's another dog on here. I want to see. He can smell it. He can smell it. Him on away five thousand miles away. Are you in La You in California? No, I'm in Toronto, So you're back in the sum I got some crazy shit to tell you, guys or show so h yeah. So I'm back in Toronto on a show and we shoot in the exact same studio and we have literally vibs is our trailer. Pa already is there, Nancy is there, Natalie is there? Gin is there? All from hair and makeup, Brandon and Angel are They're doing props um, Heather's in the production office. It is crazy, Like it's almost eerie because it just there's so many people that are like around. Yeah, like we have so many people from the first season and like the last two seasons, the shadow Hunters like that are working there. It's nuts. You're living the dream man. That's amazing. It was wild man, like, it's it's it's weird. It's weird. How is it being back in Toronto? Like, I'm sure so much has changed? So you know, are there old haunts there or the restaurants you still go to or is it just all brand new? The skylines changed a little bit but mostly mostly um, you know, it hasn't changed, Like it's the same stuff. Like we could I could go to the same place as we always went and they're still there. Um yeah, Oh but I forgot to mention also, Brian is also head of makeup, so dude, it's crazy. It is crazy. But anyway, yeah, I didn't want to leave Brian out lest he watched this and go like, thank you, what the fucker leaving me? Just forget concealer one thing not not, but I get it. Yeah yeah. Like like the only thing that's been closed are like hot yoga places, Like that's the only place that's because like the pandemic those closed. Um what else. I'm living in the same apartment building on the same floor, just a different apartment. It's crazy, man. Yeah, it's nuts. The same same apartment as the first season that we were here. Oh yeah, those are you had? You had you had like it wasn't an apartment, it was like a house, sort of a little feather out for the first season I did. Yeah, yeah, the thurdason I had like a small like it was like a townhouse. Yeah. Yeah. Raccoon, raccoon. Lisa's leaving. Lisa's here right now, Lisa, she's joining you. She's pregnant right now, so she's like rubbing her belly. Yeah, graduations, she's heading off the like a pregnant yoga class. Be careful, text me when you get back or when you get there. That's amazing. Yeah right wow, King of Nonchalance, just throwing it out like yeah, that's all good. She's she's like twenty seven weeks now, so wow, it's pretty safe to say she will be all right, you know. So yeah, fingers across, wishing you guys best. Do you know, do you have fuck the shout out into stuff? Let's talk about that and you're like, it's awesome. Yeah, it's a it's a boy. So yeah, we know, we know this sex. It took a while to get there, but you know, right now we're we're just happy we're there and we're kind of like taking it slowly so exciting, you know, an I could be happy for you. Yeah, thanks, guys, I appreciate it. Yeah, I know, I was gonna send an announcement as soon as we got to well, we're gonna have the baby here in Toronto, so that's gonna be crazy. Yeah, so that's gonna be nuts. But yeah, as soon as we got settled in here and we're about to you know, start in the nesting mode, Um, I was going to send announce it out to the group and just let you guys know what's up. Nice, But then again, this is a better way to do it. So yeah, yeah, this is this is going to capture everybody. Yeah, exactly what I'm doing what happens with citizenship then, like, if the baby is born in Canada, does it technically will he technically have a right to a Canadian citizenship? Yes? Yes, cool baby, we'll be I believe dual citizenship. That is way so awesome. I'll do some research on that. But yeah, watch the like Border Patrol call us and be like, yeah we heard. Yeah, you know I used to watch Shadow Hunters and then I heard you were doing this, so I can help you out. Yeah, I was in a restaurant. I was in a restaurant the other day with the cast and the producers and I'm leaving and this dude he stops me and he's like, he's like, were you want that Netflix show? And I like, I sometimes I forget that it was like a Netflix because I'm thinking very formal with them, and I was like what Netflix show thinking and he goes, you know, the one with vampires and I was like, oh, Shadow I was like yeah, yeah it was, and he's like I love that show. Like he was like so into it. Our fans are like crazy everywhere. I know, they're the best, man, Yeah, They're they're everywhere too, Like everywhere. Yeah, I bumped into. This is a weird one. Actually, so I bumped into. I was in a restaurant with my dad a couple of years ago and the owner of the restaurant in an Italian place in London. The owner of the restaurant comes out and says, are you Tom from shadow Hunters? And I said, yeah, I am, which is normally you can sort of see who are going to be our fans. I'd say like eighty percent. You're like, okay, this is like, this is one of ours. And this was like an older Italian gent who owns a restaurant, and I was like, there's no way, There's no fucking way. But sure enough he comes over and I was like, okay, this is weird and he goes, my son, is your voice? Is your Italian voice for shadow Hunters? I was like, that is fucking a wild Oh yeah, isn't that crazy? That is dope. I love that. I love those moments when you get to be like hi, you are me in another language, thank thank you, thank you. It's pretty crazy. I was just getting off a plane in Spain and you know, you transferred from the shuttle to like the terminal whatever. I got on there and there was like just two Shadow Hunter fans like they were like and I was like, man, like all places like this is like a little you know, a shuttle. You know. You met a friend of mine actually on an airplane on your way to Ibeth, I think, And she text me and she was like, I'm pretty sure this is him, and she'd take him like a blurry, like weird photo. I was like, Sam, you don't need to do that. Guy. He's the nicest guy. Go and say hi. I promised that's better than someone clearly trying to take a photo. But they were on the same plane. And even crazier is when you did the movie in South Africa and then I came back. I went to South Africa. Your armorer literally he's like, I work with Tom, you know. And I was like, get the funk out of here. I think I sent you a picture or something like that. Yeah, and then he goes like this. He goes, I was gonna give you his gun, but I thought that'd be a little weird. I'm like, dude, give me the gun, like like like you're building you know, a shadow Hunter like lore right now, So like you give me that so that way, you know what, I mean, okay, well, if I ever if I ever worked in South Africa again, I feel like no, no, no, I want to domb Sherwood Isamus to Africa. Please. That's the only gun that will do. Thank you very much. Martin loves you like man, he was like such a fond like the way he said it, like, I was like, oh man, he's like he was just like glowing with praise, like he was so like happy. Is like he was like, um can I ask you a question? And I was like, yeah, what's what's up? He goes, you worked with Dominic Sherwood. Yes, the way said like I was like, oh, like wow. I was like yeah, He's like oh yeah, and then he just like wouldn't this full praise? I was like, holy shit, O man, he was sweet a sweetheart. That's so sweet. Yeah. I do have to say though, the number of times I run into someone who goes, wait a minute, you worked with Isaiah Mustaphood, didn't you. Oh my god, he's the best guy ever and just goes on and on about you for twenty minutes, And of course you know then it's a love fest on both sides. But it's it's amazing because you truly have done it all from I mean, it's it's hard to talk about all the things that you have done because I think there's it's it's just easier to mention than the things you haven't. But I stumble into stuff all the time. I got back into ship and I go, oh, I'm here, okay, great, Yeah, but not like when people say that normally, like I back I backed into like and you know, now I canoe once a week Like no, no, no, what we're talking about is like you played professional American football like that. It's that level. Like it's not like I backed into this thing and now I have a new hobby, Like no, this is I backed into it and then I'm fucking the best at it. Yeah that was that was like, you know, youth, that's all. I was young though, as as had an athletic body, take advantage of it, and now I suffer from knees and stuff and whatnot. But yeah, it's all good. Yeah, But it's another chapter in this like mental series of books that's going to be your life. I say series of books because you and try and fit this in one book. It's gonna be like the Bible, like it's gonna be like people are going to open it and be like, is this double space. No, it's genuinely just eight thousand pages. It's just everything he's done in his life because he's just that much of a proactive, amazing dude. It's a double edged sword, man, I'll tell you sometimes, like it's like I never like to talk about stuff I've done because people just are like, seriously, like what, and I'm like, I'm just telling the truth, but yeah, I know it sounds crazy, but I've done that, so so I just never say anything because I'm like, I don't want to. I don't want people to feel like intimidated or anything because I may have done something that they That's an interesting dichotomy that we've actually mentioned before, I think on this podcast. If not, I was talking about it with another group of friends, and I can't remember an interesting dicotomy. So even just in our industry, if you're talking to someone from outside of the industry, there's a level of like what is and is not appropriate to say because you don't want to sound like you're boasting about what you do. But also, we work really hard and I'm very proud of what we do. Like I don't want to seem like the guy who's like, oh, well I do this and this, but also at the same time, I kind of do want to be that guy because I work my ass off this, you know what I mean, I'm proud of I get it. Yeah. If you know, for example, like uh, you know, we've all had like weapons training, so you know, like guns are you know, a touchy subject, but you know you have to do it. If you're an actor, if you're in that kind of situation, you do have to take some training so you know what you're doing. It's best to do that actually. So so it's you know, like when you do that, you feel accomplished. You feel like, oh, I know how to handle myself with this, you know. And so when someone says, like you know how to shoot, you know, you're kind of like, yeah, always the two fingers. It's never a full hand, it's always yeah. You go very slowly like yeah no, but it's you're right though. It's it's a tricky balance to sort of set when you're going well, you know, because sometimes even to find work or to you know, get let people know that you are able to do the job, you sort of have to go yeah, well, yeah, I can do that, but and I have and here's how. But you know, you're you are always so good at this and I loved watching you because when when I started Shadow Hunters, I was nineteen. I didn't know how to run a show. I didn't know how to do any of that. Isn't that crazy, isn't it? Yeah, we started filming like eight years ago. Yeah, that's great because you know what, I was nineteen two, of course you were, but you know, you'd had much more experience in the industry than I had in my nineteen years and you're nineteen years so you know, it was amazing to watch you on set with the crew and even you know, when we did pr stuff, every situation you came in and you handled with such grace and such poise and and with a warmth that made everyone feel valued and welcome and seen. And I've I've tried to learn that from you and continue that on. But that was such a you know, it was It was really impactful at the time, and you know continues to be. Yeah, I've been on a couple sets since then that they haven't been like that. So so you know, as long as 'me you know, happy people can be happy around you, then they like you around you know, not even like I mean absolutely yes they will like you, and that's good. But I feel like I am going to ditter what Kat said here a little bit. That's a large part of what I learned from you on set um is that responsibility because it's not just about you and that person whoever it is that you're inticating with in that moment. Having a general mood of positivity throughout the set helps everything move better on Yeah, you know what I mean. Everybody has their days too, so you know, like if you if you can try to like massage that you know, it works, it works. You know, you do your best to like you're like, you know, or you catch yourself you're like, you know, maybe I shouldn't have said that to or you say, like, you know what I'm feeling this way today, maybe I should just not go like into the production office like that nobody you know fires me today or whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a little tupm today. I'm gonna them tomorrow, you know. You know what I've been doing a lot lately is because like to learn like stuff that you kind of already know. I just go like they asked, like, have you ever had this kind of training? I always say like I have, but pretend that I know nothing and just tell me everything, you know. Yeah, yeah, that way you learn, Like you know, you don't have the tendency to go like like oh well I do it like this, like you just shut up and learn. Yeah yeah, just adding new bits. Yeah. I think that's really smart. Now we would be remissed if we didn't ask you about this. We're going to talk about old spice. Is that okay? Is it cool if we talk about old spice? That especially that one commercial. The first commercial was like a worldwide phenomenon. It the internet, everywhere, it was on our TVs here in the UK, um, it was all across America, like it was everywhere in the world. And what I didn't know until I met you is that it was that was practical. They did everything on that practically, right, or like ninety percent of that practically. Yeah, now you're right, like ninety nine percent of it. There's one thing that was like not practical, and that was the diamonds falling out of my hand. But other than that was like the only cgi in the thing. But other than that, everything was done like it was like a little mouse trap, like you know, you just at the ball and it just goes and everything, yeah doesn't. Yeah yeah some of them, but honestly, some of the most like interesting and creative filmmaking just didn't that what is it like a thirty second snippet. Maybe not even the thirty seconds now it's there was thirty seconds. That was like the trick of it to get it all in thirty seconds, but it was it was frustrating and fun and like looking back, like I had no idea, Like I had a vision of this gas bill that was like astronomical, at least at the time, I was like, that's an astronomical gas bill that I had to pay, And I just had visions of like finally I get to pay this fucking gas bill, you know what I mean, because like I had not paid it for so long, and like it was just it was just like high enough to where I was just taking payments on it, you know. And then so I was just like this job, I'm gonna pay that fucking gas bill off. So I went into it feeling like I'm just gonna pay bills like this is so cool and uh, and I had no idea and I had the girlfriend at the time, nice person, great dancer, but just I mean out there, and she she was like that was like the beginning of the end. It's like did like one of those things that you had your gas bill, Your gas bill was your issue and then you fix that and you were like, all right, what are the problems have I got now? Because now I have I have a space in my life for another issue, what do I gets? Dating advice is going to be a volume two of the memoirs, just one moment. I've come to you so many times for like you're so good at just them You're I mean, I won't we will name names because you guys know, but my best advice would be like, do not date a cast member, but that would be my best Don't date in the office, like it's such a normal, it's such a date within your office. Yeah. Ever, ever, people are like, well, there's no smoke without fire, and you're like, yeah, there is. This is this is why these phrases exist. That that's one hundred smoke without fire. These are probably smoke without fire all the time. It's called it's called atmosphere atmosphere irony because that's what it creates totally funny. Yeah. When I first got up here, I was like single, so I was dating like like just a madman, Like I was a serial data out here, like I was just going on dates left and right. I was using every dating app out there, like I had them all downloaded, swiped one as yours because you hand it like here, have fun. I've never done this the exactly. I do remember that. Yeah, it was fun for a minute. And because I was like, you know, six on the call sheet, I had time. I just I had time to do all kinds of like nonsense, get into trouble or whatever. But uh yeah that all shut down the second season, thank god, though, like I was out of control. Toronto is a beautiful place with beautiful people. Certain it is. I forget what we were talking about. Okay, what do we want to do, Tom, you help me. Do we want to talk about shadow Hunters or do we want to get Isaiah two shadow Hunters? First? I like how you just got us out of that conversation. Oh, this is half of my job on this podcast is bringing Gon back from tangents. That's all I do all day. That's why I'm here. I have my cheat in front of me too. It's right here, and I keep looking at it and I go I lost that in a minute. So before we get to the beautiful people in Toronto, let's talk about you and what brought you to shadow Hunters. So you play in the NFL. You did this Old Spice amazing everything and worked so much, but then when you first got this audition for shadow Hunters, dude, were you aware of it? Had you seen anything about it before? I had no idea what shadow Hunters was. I couldn't tell you what that or the Mortal Instruments. I had no clue. I know this much. I was doing some like guest stars here and there. But I mean, at that point, the popularity from Old Spice had kind of, like good dwindling and waning. I had a lot of time because I wasn't really working consistently, but I was still there, their brand ambassador. I still am, but I just wasn't doing anything that I wanted to do. So I was doing a lot of writing. I was like, you know, built a hockey rink in my garage. I was doing a lot of shit that like you know, idle hands. You know, you just had a lot of shit to do um. So the housing brought me in for a sitcom. And this is how fucking off I was at the time. Like I just wasn't like shit wasn't lined up for me. I didn't read the sides, and I didn't notice that the sides were sitcom sides, and I wasn't paying attention. So when I went in there and it was like a full on like it wasn't a test. It was like right before the test, you know, like so you had the producers and I think it was like Tory Spelling or somebody like that, and you know, I go in there to do the audition and I just like I read it like, you know, a thirty minute comedy like and then she like looked at me and she laughed and she was like, oh that's funny, but read it like a sitcom now, you know, like, and I was like, oh, I wasn't a joke I did that like, and I was like, oh shit, like and I went on and then I you know, you're just nervous at that point because you're like fucking this up. And I went and went backet in there and I tried to put jokes in, but it just didn't I didn't read it right. Needless to say, I didn't get the job, and I thought I embarrassed her, is what I felt like. I was like, fuck, she brought me in and like I just told he didn't do it. Um. So when she brought me back for Shadow Hunters, I was so appreciative that I like overstudied and like got shit down, you know. So I went in there and really nailed it. And then the I got a test for it. Fucking Didario whatever She's about to happen, right, Matt Man Like, Okay, first of all, yeah, Like first of all, like like but he's sitting there in the waiting room, you know, during the test, and there's like a couple other dudes, and he just like staring at me. You know, He's like, you know, staring and staring, and he just just like look on his face. He's like like I can see he's summing me up. He's like, m you know, he's like looking me up and down kind of like hmm. And I'm like, what the fuck is this kid looking? And so then I look at him, go damn, he looks familiar. They're like, who is this kid? So then they were both like summing each you know, just kind of like you know, measuring each other, and I'm like each other up and and finally, yeah, exactly, finally I just go do I know you? Like, do I know you? And he's like no, but do I know You's like, well no, I don't think. So he's like okay, you know, like full on Matt, and I'm just like what the fuck is that? You know? Yeah, So that was it was weird. Like so it was just kind of weird. Then like I went to the bathroom and trying to get ready or whatever kind of calm down, and then I was gonna go in next and I'm leaving the bathroom and my fucking pants got cot on the door handle and they wiped, and it was just like that's why I had this, like, you know, maybe like like a six inch like gap from the pocket area of my pants. Thank god, I was wearing like dark dark gray pants and I had like dark gray like underpants on, so like, yeah, I mean, if you looked, you could tell. So I walked in the test and the only thing I could think of was like, fuck, I gotta like twists so they don't see this pocket. And that's like the only thing I was like concerned with. So a lot of the scene was done with one hand in my pocket and the other hand gesturing. I was, so I must looked like I was like super confident, like yeah, so anyway, you know the thing, isn't it? Like I think sometimes when when like everything has gone wrong up to this point, you're sort of like fuck it, fuck it, like what what more could go wrong here? Like who gives a shit? You know what I mean? And you're focused on these other things like you don't want to bull to pop out or whatever, and so the performance is just like a natural thing that happens, is like an organic thing that happens, and I should actually tell my pants more often. Absolutely. Oh but but needless to say, that went on. I got the job. So and then later when they announced the job, I was flying to like the smallest convention in Canada for for something for old spice actually, and that was announced like as I got off the plane, and I was like my phone was like blowing up and I was like holy shit, like you know, so, oh my god. So like like it was even like tweeted or something like I had no idea and I was like Jesus Christ and I tweeted it Matt and I was like, I was like I saw it because he we both got announced at the same time. So I to him, I was like, I got a betch you know me now, you know, Oh that's amazing. And then also, you guys, remember like our schedules would have just like constantly in flux, like costly, like like it was always like you never planned shit because like it's funny, because I think it's just because the weather in Toronto so so wicked, you know. So I literally just got a call from the second eighty. I was like, oh, I'll answer that a little bit later. We'll see what that's all about. Yeah, this is this is what happens. But you know, we all did get cast very quickly and get shipped up to Toronto super quickly. But I I'll never forget the first time I met all of you because you all were already there and then I arrived and we all went to dinner, and it was such a cool You have such a cool thing to to meet all of you all at once, but that was your first time meeting all of us as well, So you know, you are meeting all of these kids that are you know, so rash off the boat so green. I was been like, Yeah, we're gonna make a TV show. Isn't this cool? What is? What do you do? What is my first series too? So so you know I was just as green as you guys. I was just older, that's all. So yeah, that was your first That was your first series reg That was my first series regular. I had done some pilots, two pilots where I was a series regular, but they didn't get picked up. So that's wild. That's wild to me. Did come across like a consummate professional like you've been Yeah, you know you've been series regular one hundred times before. That's how it read. Yeah, I think. I think when you when you do some pilots and they don't go, you kind of you know you you it feels like because you you try to develop that you know, that camaraderie right away then everything and you try to like, you know, attack it like you're going to be doing this series for years and years to come, and then they give you a collar. Yeah they didn't pick it up, so you're like, okay o loss. Well, speaking to that, I that was one of the first things that you imparted to all of us, and I'll never forget this from that dinner. The one thing I really took away is you and Harry kind of sat us down and went, look, you know, we could be doing this for five ten years if we're lucky, and we have a choice to make right now. We can be friends or and have fun or not. So let's get along, Let's be friends, let's do this together as a team, or we could be doing it for you know, thirteen episodes and well, you know what, we will throw up for a second. They held us for what six months off to season one, like it was down to like the why I remember it being like the week. Yeah, it was literally the day that our contracts expired. Yeah, yeah, that was crazy. What's crazy about the second time around here now doing this show here is that I walk into places and I have immediate shadow Hunter memories, Like I'm like, oh, that's right, this is where Ed took us when Ed was no longer our showrunner. That cafe is still there, you know, just stuff like that. The place where we had dinner the first time. It's called Marvin and it's like down the street, you know, And I got like, oh, that's right. There's that place Rock and Rodeo. I walked past there the other day, you know what I mean, like the Burgher's priest Jacobs, Late Night Jacobs. Yeah, unrivaled Jacobs. It's funny you mentioned Ed when Ed when Ed sat was down, he took me to coffee. He sat me down and I'd like just been broken up with and he was like you okay, And I was like, yeah, good man, I just go from broke up with me And he's like, oh, well you just got dumped and I just got fired okay. It was like bring it in, Oh man, how funny. Oh goodness gracious. Speaking of old memories and walking into Shadow Hunters and being back in Toronto, what was your first memory from set? Oh? You remember when we walked into the studio it was a sausage factory before you know um. And we walked into the second studio where it were like the Chinese restaurant and and Magnus's stuff was. We walk in there and they were all those fucking slot machines. Do you guys remember that? Like there was to the side like that's for some reason I always think of that. I'm like, what the fuck was that doing in there. Yeah, it was weird, like sort of underhanded, like background weekend the studio with like are we sharing this with the mob? What the fuck is that? Don't ask questions, don't ask questions, but don't talk about it. We don't talk about it. We don't talk about the slot machines. I just I think about that ship all the time, like I always, I'm always like, damn, that's weird. Yeah it was weird. Yeah. Season one there was a lot of weird shit about that studio, Like remember the dust like how how like just it was grind. The whole place was grind. If you saw it now, you would flip out. You would be like, no way. Yeah, it's like because let's every single like corner of that studio now is designated for something like purposeful you know, like it's nice. Yeah, it's it's a trip. It's a trip. That's amazing. Yeah, it's it's so weird, except, you know, except for the fucking gym. It's no longer there. That's the only thing that I felt like, I'm like, what fuck the gym's not there. Yeah, it's it's like stunt training room or that tiny gym. The stunt training room. It's so disappointing and so depressing because you're like seriously like that was like the funnest part of this thing. Yeah, yeah it was. It was yeah, totally like it's empty and nothing's in there, hockey rank. Wait until it gets really cold flooded, open up the doors, let the cold in. All of a sudden, you got yourself like, oh, I don't know what happened to him, man, this is crazy leaks. Well, I just happened to bring my skates in with me today. I don't know all I'm always on deck. We're just bringing like two dumbbells every day. And then was like, what, I don't know, I just this here. I didn't bring Stu, you know, like stunt Steve left all his equipment there that one time, Like I have no idea where that is. That was mental ment, like I was fully waiting. So for people who don't know, we had a one stunt team in season one and then a different stunt team in season two, which I think we've covered eight in the podcast at some point, and then the original stunt team just kind of didn't leave, so they were still like there while we're filming season two with the new stunt team in there, and we were like in lunch every day, and I remember it being like a matrix moment, like like fucking mouse is going to come in and be like they're fighting. They're fighting, Like we will just like just throw off food away and like run into the stunt rue what was going on. I would have loved to have seen that fight, by the way, I would like, I would love you have seen the fight. I think it would have been over pretty quickly. Yeah, I think so too, but it would have been interesting, man, And no kidding, yeah, get back a little bit. Um. You know something we've discussed with Alberto on the show, and we discussed with you know a few other folks. Those of you who were the first to play a certain down worlder or a certain you know creature on the show got to establish a lot and you got to establish the werewolves, ye know. I mean, honestly, like, it's so frustrating because I'm like, I love Todd and Derren, I love Ed too, but you know, the attention paid to the character of Luke not so much. But yeah, which I get it. I get it, Like I mean, I understand, but like, you know, you just never like where did he live? Did you ever see his apartment? Like you don't know where he lived, you know, like he just kind of like roamed in it out. You saw somewhere in Manhattan. Apparently a lot of money for a cop, because you were always right fucking like as soon as we need you just are you know, yeah, didn't know where he lived. Like it was just interesting, Like like so I always thought, you know, there was some attention paid to werewolves and like also Maya, which which again I understand that too because her character kind of comes in and does you know, she's like kind of integral with with Simon and everything. But yeah, you know, you just Luke was kind of like flapping. You know. He was good. You know what he was good for. He was good for exposition. I like like I would come in, I would say, well, blah blah blah blah and explain something and take us. I was a bridge. I took us from here to here, and like, as long as you know your role and like you're like, all right, so that's my role. And I had to figure that. I had to figure that out. I figured that out like the beginning of the second season, and so I remember the second block of the second season, Todd and Darren came out. They were like we all had our little meetings with them and stuff. And I remember I went in there, like I went and bought this like pile of wood, and I walked in the office and I dropped it and they were like, They're like like, what the fuck is like looking at me? And I'm like, they're like, what's this? And I go to wood and they're like, what, what's what? Fo I go because we're gonna have a fireside chat and I said so they were like they start laughing, and I was like, I go, listen, guys, I go, here's the deal. I don't need much like I go. I need you know, two or three scenes every episode, one scene every year, that's fine. I don't care. I go for me. It's all about longevity. So as long as you don't kill me off and you just want to throw me in here and there, that's all I care about. I don't care, like I like, honestly, just put me in where you need me. You know, you don't have to worry about me. Just like you know, one or two scenes per episode. That's it. That's it. And they and they pretty much stuck to that ram with it. It seems like a waste. If I'm honest, it seems like a huge waste like one, you were in town. Two you're exceptionally talented. Three it's a lot of money to throw an actor to be like, we're not gonna give this person a NALC. You know what I mean, Like if you're getting series right out of mind, that's what I thought. But then again I was getting paid for it, so I was kids. But also, you know, Dom and I talk about this a lot, and the rewatches Luke is the only capable adult in the gang and the absolute worst detective in the world, like horrible, just a horrible detective. Terrible, Like how does a dog detective not find things? Like he just like like right, like I know, I like, he had no idea where he was going. But yeah, that's that's I mean. So if fans want to know, I literally asked them like, hey, you know you don't or at least gave them free rein to like do whatever they wanted to do. And I wasn't pushing up going like I need more, I need more. I was like, look, this show is about the kids. You don't need it's not the Luke Show. So you do whatever you need to do. And I think they that like made them like, you know, like we don't have to worry about this guy. And then I remember, uh, like when I when like when I got it, I was talking to uh Todd, and Todd was all about it, and then I told him, I said, listen, like, I hope this goes well and everything, and we can talk about next season when next season comes, if we get next season. And I was just going to ask him, like, listen, demote me, let me be like, you know, just kind of recur and I can go off and do something else, because I was just like, there's no point in being in Toronto and not really working, so and you can save money, you know. I was. I had a whole like thing I was going to throw at him that was like, you know, cost efficiency of of letting me go right, yeah, because there is a huge perk to it sometimes being Yeah, as you say, like being a series regular, you are tied into whatever this one thing is. You can't go and do anything else really, versus you can really spread your wings and do other things creatively if you have the free reign to do that. Yeah, totally. I was. I was, I was up for that. I was looking forward to it on this subject though, like the only regret that I have not even regret. But it's just like I wish I didn't push Shadow Hunters to like put a fucking mustache or a goatee on me, because like, God, my face when I don't have hair is like completely different, and like it's like so different like when I watched. When I watch, it's off putting on Shadow Hunters because it's like not Luke, you know. I mean, you're like, oh, that's a that's a different dude, you know. So I just wish I would have told him that. I remember it in the script I remember in the scool we got the final scripts and I didn't know what it was yet because I didn't know you'd got it yet, and it just said in the scriptum and to Luke uncharacteristically clean shaven, I was like, what does that mean? Yeah? Why it didn't make any sense because he has another job. But I'm I'm really glad on a nerdy level that they let you do that job because you were the best TV dad ever and let me come to set and see the cistern and just watch for a day and it was so cool. Yeah, that was that was. So many things have spawned from that job. I can't tell you, like it's been so many, Like the friendships that I made on that like unbelievable, like unbelievable, and like one of the friendships as actually like the sweetest fucking man like who I actually learned a lot from just the nicest person, Fucking James McAvoy. Man, he has been. I can't tell you how cool he has been. Like ridiculous. This dude. We were out in London and there's you probably know it, don There's this place like it's like a Jamaican restaurant has this amazing jerk sauce. And he took he walks us over to the restaurant Lisa, and he walked us there, sat us down like he knew that the owner and they sat us down. He's like, all right, we'll be at the bar. So he left and go to the bar and it was so good. We showed up at the bar and then I told him I was like, man, I go that fucking jerk sauce was amazing. It's the best we do something like I think we were promoting the movie somewhere and he shows up with like a case of this fucking jerk sauce and he's like, hey, here you go, buddy. I was like, I was like, man, like, I can't believe you did that. Like he's like yeah, He's like, give you no idea how hard that was to get the Excuse me, mister McAvoy, why do you have it's pretty coolabah. He showed up to a dinner ly, he walked to the table, He's just like, you go, what a dude, that's amazing. We should talk about it though as well. Like you, I feel very blessed you took me a matt to the premiere of it, yea, And I spent not even joking. I don't know if I told you this. I spent the hour like getting dressed and like on our way there thinking of ways to get out of it because I'm like, I'm not a horror movie guy, like I'm gonna cry, and all of the creatives are gonna be there, the other actors are going to be there, like I'm gonna I'm gonna cry, like I'm gonna I'm gonna cry. And then I think we ended up sat either behind or next to some of your producers, and they kept like, I kept getting nudges like what do you think? And I was like, oh, yeah, it's fucking great the whole time, which is what you want from a horror movie. It it works, but it's like big screen, and I was just like, just don't pish yourself. You wore a light suit today, Just don't pish your patents because everyone will know it's gonna be super passing. Yeah. That was I'm glad you guys made it too. I was at it. I know, I know, and I know you're upset. Yeah, it was so upset. I wanted to be there so bad. That was a really cool experience. What was it like filming it? Because every goes. Honestly, it was like the best summer camp I ever had, Like even like as an adult thinking back, like I never laughed so hard in my fucking life like I saw it. God damn, Like like Bill Hayter just had me fucking on the floor like like laughing my ass off like all the time, still has me laughing all the time, like just like just random shit. That's the cool thing. It was, like everybody there was so you know, it was like talking to friends that you grew up with, like your entire life. Like they made the set such an accessible like place and everybody felt comfortable with each other and it was just so cool, you know, like even like there were no flare ups, and even when people disagreed, like even when we disagreed, we laughed about it later, Like we called people out on it and laughed about it, and it was like all right, you know, but there was no no bullshit, Like it was so funny, like so much fun Sorry, I would love to I'll tell you later. But there was a there was one moment late, late late at night when we I mean there was like three in the mornings, and you know, people get all squirrely and ship one of us just blurted something out and fucking we like everybody hit the Like we just died laughing because it was like, what the fuck was that? Like, it's so funny. We talk about that a lot with Shadow Hunters too, though, the amount of night shoots we had, I think that's kind of what made it's all so close, because you get to a certain point and then you just have no filter anymore. Just anything with many masks anyone's trying to put on it's just gone and you're just stuck with the squirreliest of Yeah, you can't help yourself, like there there comes. Everybody has a point too, like you try to pull together, like one time Alan, remember that carnival that they built in the other side of the studio one time Alan van Spring. I'm just thinking about Alan. Just you had to work with Alan all the time. Dude, I love that man desperately. But when you forget a line or where you are normally you look after you say line and there's a script supervisor there who's on top of it, and they will feed you your line and you go back and you do it. Alan does this thing. I'm gonna move the microway a little because he goes, fuck line. But like you could be an inch away from him and you're like, this is great. He had me laughing so hard. So he has this you know, he has this like kind of like if you don't know him, he has this kind of like gruff, you know, stoic kind of like thing about him. But if you know him, you know he's a fucking he's you know, just like us. Like yeah, so he never shows that on set though rarely like he showed it to you like off the side, but he wasn't. He won't show that in front of the crew already. So one time we're in that carnival set and we're supposed to come running in like me and someone else. I think he might have been me and you like like we're coming running in and yeah, he's got somebody, you know. So so Hastings was directing and he's got this wind like that's like fucking like blowing and shit and uh, and he's like I would never forget. He's like he's like more wind, more wind, Like he's like yelling this to people, which he's like, who are you cecilthing Miller yells it and and and Alan's like there and then like I run in and like I can't hear ship because this wind is going like super super blowing and I and I just totally missed the cue like didn't whatever. And then he's like what what's going on? Like line line, like like like Hastings is yelling at right and then just like Alan's like right next to me and like that he goes cut cuts, is like you gotta say the line, and I just go this fucking win and Alan lost his ship laughing like he didn't he like he looked at me like like like what he just died laughing, And I was like, why do you think that was so funny? Like he thought that was the funniest shit. And then like every time I saw him after that, he would just come up and start giggling and he goes the fucking win. You just never know, You never know what's gonna get you on set. It could be the weirdest. Like the three of us and then Adam Harrington and we had a very exposition or like not funny scene around a dinner table in the in the Chinese restaurant, and something got us and it was like you can rewatch the scene, go back and rework the scene. Every single one of us has like a tear, like a floating tear. Almost. They had to cut between us so that when the camera does any one of us for more than like a second and a half, none of us are making contact the entire scene. It was something about that Chinese restaurant that made everybody start laughing, Like David Castro, I'll never forget like her, you know. David was like, you know he tried to Oh yeah, yeah. So he starts laughing. I start laughing, and um Peter Delawiz was was our director. I start laughing, and then Ali starts laughing. Ali who played Ali. She starts laughing. So we're you know, we start laughing. Take two, we start laughing. Take three, and then so Peter like comes over and he's kind of laughing, and he's like, okay, guys go He's like he's laughing too, but he's like, let's keep it together. Come on the youngest. Yeah. So he goes off set and David like just he just looks up and he's like fucking dud and like, I just like I couldn't take I Like I fell out, and I'm like, you can't do that. Like I was fun until you did that, Like what the fuck? Sometimes you just catch the googles and you just can't stop. But ah, sometimes you need those moments on set though, because we're doing you know, high stakes blood and guts all the time. Sometimes you just got a laugh and then refocus and get it back. Oh goodness. But okay, can we talk about the other extreme of that, which is another experience that the three of us shared in a very unique way. I was asked to keep it a secret from you guys. I was, I literally was contractually obligated to keep it a secret from you guys, so I couldn't warn you an advance. But we so free Form did a bunch of cross promotions with other movies, the movie The Ring and asked me to come because they had seen both of your pranking antics on set four years at my dismay, and I wanted to give me a chance to, you know, have a little revenge. Dude, do you guys want to tell the folks at home about what happened? It was sucked from the fucking beginning. It was sus from the minute I walked into that Yeo, do you remember hair and makeup lady? For some reason, I had like dyed black hands. I was like, the Fok's going on here? Like this is weird shit? And then they like shuffled us into hair and makeup and shuffled us out. I was like, science going on, Man, I don't know what's happening, but I'm glad I've got Isaiah with me because he's a big strong man and I'm not a big strong man. It was weird from the get go. It was fucking weird, and Ed was too happy. He was like, he's already like giddy about something. Shit. So they had me come in early and do like an intro for it, and then they put me in all the makeup in the wig and hit me in a tent in the corner. So I was there. It was just standing in the corner trying not to make any noise the whole time as you guys came in and you do what was crazy? Like we both didn't realize this though, because both of us were sitting there watching this TV, but like we should have been, like why is there a curtain under the TV? I have thought about it so many times since then, Isaiah, I can't even explained to you, Like I've rewatched that footage, like, yeah, obviously this is going to happen, Like how the fuck do you realize that there who has curtains in front of their fireplace? Like what the fuck is this set? This is mental? Like, of course this is going to happen. My reaction is so genuine and so pure. If you rewatch the footage, my foot is up on the table and my reaction is and I fortunately didn't give it everything My reaction was to boot the table at whatever this thing was that was coming out, because in my head, I was like five, just out for folks who haven't seen the video at home, they showed these two gentlemen the scariest eight minutes of the new movie and then had me come out dressed as the monster screaming from underneath the tv um by far scarier than the first eight minutes of the film. Yeah, Yeah, that was That was horrific. Like I'm having heart palpitations just thinking about it. I think that was some of the best acting I've ever done, is pretending that that movie was scary, and and that's probably what That's probably what led up to the fact that like I was so scared when you popped out, because I was like, holy shit, Like I wasn't prepared for it, Like I was totally like trying to give them what they want for this promo, and then suddenly like UK, I was like, holy shit. You know, yeah, bravo, Cat, bravo ED and your team, because you really did get that decor by the way, No, definitely different Ed, but but you two got your revenge. You know, you get that, you got your revenge. Moments later, you really sent the bar quite a bit higher, if I'm honest, Like we do we start. I started pranking everybody at that point. I was pranking Alberto. Yeah, no kidding, Like I put I put one hundred and fifty of my head shot, you know, I got them all printed out and like xerox, and I put them all in his trailer, like under the toilet seat and like in every one of his drawers. I put them in every single piece of his costume. Then like a month and a half later, they were like, we're switching trailer teams, and the trailers just went off to some other production and he was like, yeah, I found like eighty of them. I was like, fuck, dude, like forty of my head shot just didn't some random person's tractor twelve monkeys. He's like, this is something. Didn't you put a picture of your butt in there? One? Yeah? Yeah. It was pre the tattoo though, so no one could know it was mine. Speaking of tattoos, you guys, I remember you guys getting those tattoos also after the first season, Yeah, which you know, at the time I thought was crazy, but now I'm like, oh, let's get it. You know, at the time, I was like, we don't have a second season, but you know, I was like, oh, like holy shit, you know, like this is crazy. A couple of people at that party got the tattoo done who were not included in season two. I remember that the stunt team. There was a situation that that part. Man, those parties were debaucherous. They can get crazy. They really were. Yeah. I remember I was leaving and there was someone who was like they were actually going to leave with them, and I probably would have left with them, but Harry like just like grabbed you by like the collar. He's like, get your asshole, you are going there. He's like, yeah, that one right there was Yeah, like because because we went on to work with that person like for two more seasons, so it would have been absolutely like embarrassing and like weird, you know, working with that person. So fair enough. Yeah, back to back to Isaiah stating advice from fourteen minutes ago. Yeah, but have a Harry. Yeah. I always have a Harry. I need that on a T shirt. Always had Harry. But you know, we did really form a family, and we were able to get the show for three years, you know, three four years together and even we talked about this all the time. When we were shooting the series finale, you weren't even working that day and you came on the very last day to just, oh, hang out while we were doing wedding. Yeah, there's no there's no way I was going to miss that. Like I was like, I like wrapped and then this shot on over. I was like, fuck, yeah, yeah, No, I'm definitely closer to this cast than any other, Like as a group, this cast more than any other cast I've been with, Like I mean honestly, Like I even like I did a short with the Amarad Like it was like a pandemic short that had nothing else to do, and she looked down the street and I saw I was like, I was like, yo, you want to come shoot this thing real? Yeah that was awesome. Yeah it's it's three minutes. No, but it's awesome that I that you can rely on these people, you know what I mean. Like we did develop this like this group where I think we will have a comfortability with each other where it's like, actually, I think this person will be perfect for this, and like I've suggested, I think all of you guys a couple of times for something to actually yeah, I've done that too, Like several times, I'm like, check into this person, because this person might be exactly what you're looking for. I've done the exact same thing so many times. You try. I never got that job, so I obviously addition just fucking ball. You're like, it's not happening yet, So you try harder, Isaiah, if you could keep pushing me because I'm not very good. So I just need people credited. That's what that's a lie. You You're very good at what you do. As I said, I said, it's very text with you, guys. I was like, you definitely put the asses of the seats and Dave and so Isaiah, the man of many talents, the man who does everything. What's up next for you? This show? Can you talk about it yet? Or yeah, let's talk? Yeah? Um yeah. So it's it's called Cross. It's based on James Patterson's novels on Alex Cross. So um cool, Yeah, it's really cool. It's so so Alvis Hodge plays Alex Cross, and I played his partner. He plays Hawkman in Black Adam. Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. He's been in a bunch of cool is that it wasn't subtle. It's good. He was also in Invisible Invisible man. Um, yeah, he's been in some some cool shit. He's he's the lead. Like I I can relate with you guys now because I I like, this is probably the highest up on the call sheet I've ever been, Like, I'm number two on this show. So I work every fucking day. So which which I'm like, oh, okay, this is a different like this keep me out of trouble at least, you know. Well now I'm not dating anymore, you know, and now it's it's you know, I'm just out of the house now. But yeah, it's a it's a cool series. Um, it's about you know, these two these two detectives who grew up together. They were orphans together, and they're like best friends and and one of them some shit happened and uh and the other ones trying to help them out with it. So that's so exciting. We'll see how that goes. It's gonna be on Amazon. First season. We'll see what happens with a second season. Right, I mean it's right fingers crossed. Do you have a look like I just gave you the finger? I just s this is me trying to cross my fingers. But I'm crossing my fingers. I just didn't get it all the way around. I just have fingers crossed. I think one. Yeah, I was bad. Oh I can't do it there. Do you know when it gets to do have an AIRD eight? I think I think sometime next year. I don't know exactly when I know, Um, okay, probably a year from now. Maybe we'll keep an air to the ground folks lacross on Amazon Prime. Yeah it should be cool. But yeah, I'm I'm fully bearded from that. Of course, the Grays don't are in this show, but dude, I'm starting to him gray as well. Man, I got a couple like you got. I think you got to like embrace them. It's you doing you You look fantastic. I think, yeah, this is you know what you do. I think you have to like think of it this way. You especially, is like young men want to look like you and have done now for like years and years and years and years, you know what I mean. So instead of seeing it as like I don't know how I feel about this, like your trend setting, that's what you're doing, Like you're telling people like that's what I'm gonna look like. I remember, I'm gonna say this. I don't think I'm at a school and saying this about Ed Dector. I remember when before we start shooting Shadowers, I was like all into like creating the character, and I was like, Ed, what do you think about having a gray streak down the center at which I have now down the center of my beard? That you know because he had it in in the movie. He had a great streak, and like very quickly was like, we're not doing anything in the movie. Did It was like okay, got it? Okay, understand Like okay, yeah, and that was it was. It was like a quick conversation in the manner in what he said. It was like, I will not bring that up again. Got it, got it, got it? Got it. Well. On that note, we don't want to take up any more of your time. But dude, this has been a word. This has been so much fun to connect. If you guys ever do where you bring people back for specific episodes, there was an episode where I was living in that hotel. It was the beginning of my favorite It's my fucking hell, how did we not talk about this? We're gonna keep going. It's my favorite performance of yours that I got to be a part of, Like it was so like it was the Spider's web thing and it was just like one of those because I've seen you do there was in season three and I've seen you do as as we all did sort of the same thing, like you have your character down, we know who Luke is, we know this And one of my favorite versions of any anything when you're in a TV show long enough, I say this about Emerald as well, like when em when Izzie was on drugs. That was a really cool thing to see because it was such a departure from the normality that we understood is these characters, and we got to see you like at a loss, like completely broken, completely erratic, like completely at a loss, And it was my favorite thing working with you. And it's one of those fortunate moments as a scene partner. I didn't say very much at all in that scene and I got to just watch you do your thing. Yeah, but that is that actually helps, you know, I mean, it really fosters an environment that you can like, you know, you can build upon totally at that moment. But for all I'm saying for me is like as a performer, I just got to sit and watch you do your thing and just be like, fuck, this is good. This is really really good. Ship. I can't believe that scene didn't come up. We should when we get to that that episode, we will absolutely bring you back on because that was That was really And then all of the fucking climbing gear and like all of the mountain stuff. Yeah, because I got that jacket you did. I wish I had it. Man, aware of this though, this was funny. Matt made me aware of this. We had like ice climbing picks and like ropes and all this stuff, and I think we I think we'd gone off to Syria. That's where you were being It was it Syria, Siberia. That was it Siberia. And Matt was like, no mountains in Siberia where you got all that shit on? And I was like, that's a solid point. I don't know, man, I don't know. Yeah, but I do remember watching you guys shoot that and it was like Baywatch and the snow. You just guys were just perfectly coordinated and running and you can't sprint with snowshoes on, man, doesn't You just can't do it. No. Well, on that note, just thank you so much. Isaiah. You've been such a huge influence, not only on the Shadow Fan but on both of us. Um and I can't thank you enough. So well, alright, guys, thank you so much. Before we all tear up, thank you. Take care. Return to the Shadows as hosted and executive produced by me Dominic, Sherwood and Katherine McNamara. Our executive producers Langley. Our senior producers are Liz Hayes and Diego Tapia. Our producer is Hannah Harris and Kristin Vermilia, and our intern is Sam Kat's. Original music by Alex Kinsey, performed by Alex Kinsey and Katherine McNamara, and the episode was mixed by Seth A. Lansky.