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You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.

Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of land and waters that this podcast is recorded on.

Is her background, and is her value system Catholic?

Is her background, and is her value system Catholic?

Like?

Like?

Is that it because a lot.

Is that it because a lot.

Of everyone's value spitalism.

Of everyone's value spitalism.

Well, some of us are atleast trying to resist, but I wonder if not so great.

Well, some of us are atleast trying to resist, but I wonder if not so great.

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud and to Friday, where we talk about anything other than the news cycle. Today it's the fourteenth of March, and my name is Hollywayne, right, I'm.

Hello and welcome to Mamma Mia out Loud and to Friday, where we talk about anything other than the news cycle. Today it's the fourteenth of March, and my name is Hollywayne, right, I'm.

Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

Mea Friedman, and I'm Jesse Stevens.

And on the show today, take my money and tell me what to do, the irresistible pool of self help gurus and why there's only one right now who has absolutely met her moment, Mel Robins. Also in recommendations today, we've got books for you to read and a hat to wear while reading them. And our best and worst the week include terrible parenting, choices, flat social batteries, and musical theater. But first me, in case you missed it, married people are more likely to masturbate than people living alone.

And on the show today, take my money and tell me what to do, the irresistible pool of self help gurus and why there's only one right now who has absolutely met her moment, Mel Robins. Also in recommendations today, we've got books for you to read and a hat to wear while reading them. And our best and worst the week include terrible parenting, choices, flat social batteries, and musical theater. But first me, in case you missed it, married people are more likely to masturbate than people living alone.

This is surprising to me.

This is surprising to me.

I don't think it is surprised.

I don't think it is surprised.

Why is it not surprising?

Why is it not surprising?

How long have you been married?

How long have you been married?

I'm leaving it at that. We came across a list of fun sex facts that I wanted to share with the group. This is my favorite. According to the Kinsey Institute, the average speed of sperm during ejaculation is forty five kilometers per hour.

I'm leaving it at that. We came across a list of fun sex facts that I wanted to share with the group. This is my favorite. According to the Kinsey Institute, the average speed of sperm during ejaculation is forty five kilometers per hour.

Sounds dangerous. Wow, sounds like it could take an eye out.

Sounds dangerous. Wow, sounds like it could take an eye out.

Shouldn't be in a school zone, I mean obviously, because you'll get you get it fine, Yeah, yeah.

Shouldn't be in a school zone, I mean obviously, because you'll get you get it fine, Yeah, yeah.

It's fine if it's after well, no, you shouldn't. You shouldn't be in a school zone.

It's fine if it's after well, no, you shouldn't. You shouldn't be in a school zone.

Now what if you just what if you're inside your house but your house is within a school. A teaspoon moving on. A teaspoon of semen contains five calories, and a sperm takes one hour to swim seventeen centimeters, which I guess seventeen centimeter is probably all you need from your bag into the parts. Going any further, getting to alarm, But it just seems quite slow, like an hour. Oh no, you wouldn't want one in your lung. No, you've got to stop, like, don't keep going. But I think it feels a bit slow. An hour it does, it does hurry along. Scientists are unsure why humans have pubic hair, but they theorize that the hair traps secretions that hold pheromones or sexual sense, so it's for the smell, special smell, a special smell. Men who help with housework tend to have more sex that really, statistics show, and women who have difficulty reaching an orgasm might just have cold feet, actual cold feet, because a study has found that giving women warm socks increase their chance of reaching.

Now what if you just what if you're inside your house but your house is within a school. A teaspoon moving on. A teaspoon of semen contains five calories, and a sperm takes one hour to swim seventeen centimeters, which I guess seventeen centimeter is probably all you need from your bag into the parts. Going any further, getting to alarm, But it just seems quite slow, like an hour. Oh no, you wouldn't want one in your lung. No, you've got to stop, like, don't keep going. But I think it feels a bit slow. An hour it does, it does hurry along. Scientists are unsure why humans have pubic hair, but they theorize that the hair traps secretions that hold pheromones or sexual sense, so it's for the smell, special smell, a special smell. Men who help with housework tend to have more sex that really, statistics show, and women who have difficulty reaching an orgasm might just have cold feet, actual cold feet, because a study has found that giving women warm socks increase their chance of reaching.

And all should always have bed socks on very sexy, maybe with.

And all should always have bed socks on very sexy, maybe with.

Yeah jewelry, like.

Yeah jewelry, like.

Because that will really turn your partner on.

Because that will really turn your partner on.

I've noticed a lot of socks now I wanted to buy some more socks. Not so much for this reason, but can't hurt a lot of socks. They're called studio socks, and I assume they're for like doing pilates and stuff, or maybe doing sexual positions.

I've noticed a lot of socks now I wanted to buy some more socks. Not so much for this reason, but can't hurt a lot of socks. They're called studio socks, and I assume they're for like doing pilates and stuff, or maybe doing sexual positions.

Where we'd have to They've got little grips on the.

Where we'd have to They've got little grips on the.

Bottom, so I don't know. Maybe if you're like in an interesting position, having grips on the bottom of your warm socks would help.

Bottom, so I don't know. Maybe if you're like in an interesting position, having grips on the bottom of your warm socks would help.

You could stick to a wall.

You could stick to a wall.

Yeah, like Spider Man to the ceiling in the.

Yeah, like Spider Man to the ceiling in the.

Air Okay, all right, Friday Friday stuff spider Man.

Air Okay, all right, Friday Friday stuff spider Man.

Spider Man, Spider can.

Spider Man, Spider can.

Size just like guys.

Size just like guys.

Been in a situation where maybe your buddies organize a golf trip and they don't include you, or the women in your life go away for a weekend and you're not invited, Or a friend, a friend that you adore, is dating a real asshole, somebody who's horrible for them. I mean, how much does you worrying about it? How is that going to change anything? It's not How does spending two hundred hours talking to your friend about this horrible person over and over and over? How does that How it doesn't let them.

Been in a situation where maybe your buddies organize a golf trip and they don't include you, or the women in your life go away for a weekend and you're not invited, Or a friend, a friend that you adore, is dating a real asshole, somebody who's horrible for them. I mean, how much does you worrying about it? How is that going to change anything? It's not How does spending two hundred hours talking to your friend about this horrible person over and over and over? How does that How it doesn't let them.

The twenty tens had Brene Brown telling us all to be brave. The Naughties had Tony Robbins walking on hot coals.

The twenty tens had Brene Brown telling us all to be brave. The Naughties had Tony Robbins walking on hot coals.

I didn't like that.

I didn't like that.

That was way too much. Also, I know people who did it, though, I know people who did this. Ver cool voice loud.

That was way too much. Also, I know people who did it, though, I know people who did this. Ver cool voice loud.

Yeah.

Yeah.

The nineties had John Gray with his men are from Mars, women from Venale.

The nineties had John Gray with his men are from Mars, women from Venale.

I like that.

I like that.

I know you did.

I know you did.

I thought that was great.

I thought that was great.

This is one divisions in our relationship.

This is one divisions in our relationship.

May is such a basic news from Mars.

May is such a basic news from Mars.

I still talk about that a lot that book, and of course all the decades mostly Oprah. Every era has its Zeitgey self help guru, and twenty twenty five has unequivocally crowned mel Robins. Yes of let them fame, more about let them in a moment. Robin's podcast is currently the number one in Australia, which we're not at all bitter about because we're number three. Robins is huge. She's been doing this for a while, so she has been a life coach and a motivational speaker for over a decade and until this massive breakthrough moment, she'd built an empire from kind of really down home, like kind of like your grandma would have told you this advice. So it's quite.

I still talk about that a lot that book, and of course all the decades mostly Oprah. Every era has its Zeitgey self help guru, and twenty twenty five has unequivocally crowned mel Robins. Yes of let them fame, more about let them in a moment. Robin's podcast is currently the number one in Australia, which we're not at all bitter about because we're number three. Robins is huge. She's been doing this for a while, so she has been a life coach and a motivational speaker for over a decade and until this massive breakthrough moment, she'd built an empire from kind of really down home, like kind of like your grandma would have told you this advice. So it's quite.

Bossy, Like I've been chusing her for probably more than five years. And she had a ted talk that went viral.

Bossy, Like I've been chusing her for probably more than five years. And she had a ted talk that went viral.

About the five second role procrastination.

About the five second role procrastination.

Yeah, and she's got a really great backstory which we'll get to in a second, a good origin story, and she's very sort of no nonsense.

Yeah, and she's got a really great backstory which we'll get to in a second, a good origin story, and she's very sort of no nonsense.

So she's like, jump out of bed in the morning and get outside, don't procrastinate, that's the five second rule. Think positively all the time. She's like, whether you think you can, or you think you can't. You're right like that kind of stuff. A short walk solves most problems, make everyone else's day a little bit better. So very like solid white beddy kind of She's.

So she's like, jump out of bed in the morning and get outside, don't procrastinate, that's the five second rule. Think positively all the time. She's like, whether you think you can, or you think you can't. You're right like that kind of stuff. A short walk solves most problems, make everyone else's day a little bit better. So very like solid white beddy kind of She's.

Not wu Wu.

Not wu Wu.

She's not wu Wu. She's sold millions of books, She's had billions of podcast streams. A little tiny bit about her origin story before we get into the let them phenomena, because every guru needs one Robins's self reinvention. At forty one, she was unemployed. She'd gone broke from a failed business venture that left her and her husband with eight hundred thousand dollars in debt. She says that she was miserable and unhappy. She said, my past was full of shitty behavior. I used to be a real competitive, insecure asshole, and I hurt people and blah blah blah. Right, Jesse, I don't know how to tell you this next bit because you're not gonna like it. Before she was a life coach and a motivational speaker. She was a criminal lawyer, and she was on happy and dissatisfied. So she's got a law degree. She was working as a criminal lawyer. She went to a life coach to say, what should I do with my life? I'm unhappy and dissatisfied. The life coach told her she should be a life coach, and so she launched, and so it begins, and her two self help companies and quickly and this reputation as a tough love personal improvement coach mia. Why is this Mel Robbins's moment?

She's not wu Wu. She's sold millions of books, She's had billions of podcast streams. A little tiny bit about her origin story before we get into the let them phenomena, because every guru needs one Robins's self reinvention. At forty one, she was unemployed. She'd gone broke from a failed business venture that left her and her husband with eight hundred thousand dollars in debt. She says that she was miserable and unhappy. She said, my past was full of shitty behavior. I used to be a real competitive, insecure asshole, and I hurt people and blah blah blah. Right, Jesse, I don't know how to tell you this next bit because you're not gonna like it. Before she was a life coach and a motivational speaker. She was a criminal lawyer, and she was on happy and dissatisfied. So she's got a law degree. She was working as a criminal lawyer. She went to a life coach to say, what should I do with my life? I'm unhappy and dissatisfied. The life coach told her she should be a life coach, and so she launched, and so it begins, and her two self help companies and quickly and this reputation as a tough love personal improvement coach mia. Why is this Mel Robbins's moment?

I think the news cycle has never been more intense than it's been sort of this past eighteen months, between war and Trump and algorithms, and everyone's just feeling very besieged. And what the let them theory is, and let them is about recognizing things you can't control. Essentially, it's about if if someone's not dating you and then not interested, let them not be interested. If you're partner wants to end the relationship, let them. If your kid hasn't taken his lunch to school again, let them be hungry. And it's that idea of personal empowerment, but in a very passive way.

I think the news cycle has never been more intense than it's been sort of this past eighteen months, between war and Trump and algorithms, and everyone's just feeling very besieged. And what the let them theory is, and let them is about recognizing things you can't control. Essentially, it's about if if someone's not dating you and then not interested, let them not be interested. If you're partner wants to end the relationship, let them. If your kid hasn't taken his lunch to school again, let them be hungry. And it's that idea of personal empowerment, but in a very passive way.

So what she's.

So what she's.

Actually doing, I think everyone's so tired. Remember Cheryl Samberg, who is another bit of a self help guru, that was all about leaning. That was the girl Boss era, and that was hustle culture. Mel Robbins and let them is about lie down.

Actually doing, I think everyone's so tired. Remember Cheryl Samberg, who is another bit of a self help guru, that was all about leaning. That was the girl Boss era, and that was hustle culture. Mel Robbins and let them is about lie down.

It's about stop.

It's about stop.

Trying to change people, stop trying to change things, stop trying to control every outcome. Just accept what you can't change about others, like the Serenity prayer, and work on what you can change and what you can do. And I think that there's something really appealing about that. It's also short, it's simple. Her advice is not, as I said, it's not wu wu. It's not like soul food. It doesn't require a lot of self reflection. It's very practical.

Trying to change people, stop trying to change things, stop trying to control every outcome. Just accept what you can't change about others, like the Serenity prayer, and work on what you can change and what you can do. And I think that there's something really appealing about that. It's also short, it's simple. Her advice is not, as I said, it's not wu wu. It's not like soul food. It doesn't require a lot of self reflection. It's very practical.

In fact, she doesn't really like self reflection much. Jesse, why do you think we're so addicted to being told what to do?

In fact, she doesn't really like self reflection much. Jesse, why do you think we're so addicted to being told what to do?

I reckon we all feel woefully unqualified to make any decisions about our own lives. And I actually don't think that's entirely new. I was thinking about how my grandmother would have gone to her priest, and over the weekend we were at synagogue. Maya was speaking and a rabbi was on the panel, and I thought I would love an hour with a rabbi to just really corner her and got very wise, can you solve them? And this is still I mean, all over the world there are lots of religious people who turned to a monk or an or a a rabbi or a priest to help them, and I think that Mel Robbins has actually used a few techniques and language that mirrors this. For example, she often says I just happened to be the messenger. I just happened to be the messenger of this, which.

I reckon we all feel woefully unqualified to make any decisions about our own lives. And I actually don't think that's entirely new. I was thinking about how my grandmother would have gone to her priest, and over the weekend we were at synagogue. Maya was speaking and a rabbi was on the panel, and I thought I would love an hour with a rabbi to just really corner her and got very wise, can you solve them? And this is still I mean, all over the world there are lots of religious people who turned to a monk or an or a a rabbi or a priest to help them, and I think that Mel Robbins has actually used a few techniques and language that mirrors this. For example, she often says I just happened to be the messenger. I just happened to be the messenger of this, which.

Is very, very Jesus.

Is very, very Jesus.

And she has this email that she sends out and she says, in case nobody else tells you today, let me be the first to say that I love you, and I believe in you and your ability to create a better life. Unconditional love is nice, yes, but I think that the demise of religion has left a wide open hole.

And she has this email that she sends out and she says, in case nobody else tells you today, let me be the first to say that I love you, and I believe in you and your ability to create a better life. Unconditional love is nice, yes, but I think that the demise of religion has left a wide open hole.

And we've filled it with celebrities for a little while, didn't they.

And we've filled it with celebrities for a little while, didn't they.

Yeah, But I.

Yeah, But I.

Think that there's still this sense of I don't know what to do. I was reading a few interviews with people who said, you know, this sounds weird, but I feel like she has my back. And when I've spoken to people who are very religious, the thing I'm most envious of is they say, I feel like someone's watching out for me, like someone has some greater plan, Like Mel Robbins will often say the universe has a plan blah blah blah, and so I think there's an element of that. But I guess the question I would ask is that when you have religious people say the priest answer you, or you go to them with a crisis, they have a methodology. They have centuries of texts and conversations and ethics and values that inform their answer. If you go to a psychologist, they have a methodology which is research based evidence. My worry about certain gurus is when you go, what's your methodology other than what sounds right and what feels right.

Think that there's still this sense of I don't know what to do. I was reading a few interviews with people who said, you know, this sounds weird, but I feel like she has my back. And when I've spoken to people who are very religious, the thing I'm most envious of is they say, I feel like someone's watching out for me, like someone has some greater plan, Like Mel Robbins will often say the universe has a plan blah blah blah, and so I think there's an element of that. But I guess the question I would ask is that when you have religious people say the priest answer you, or you go to them with a crisis, they have a methodology. They have centuries of texts and conversations and ethics and values that inform their answer. If you go to a psychologist, they have a methodology which is research based evidence. My worry about certain gurus is when you go, what's your methodology other than what sounds right and what feels right.

And what's going to go viral and what's.

And what's going to go viral and what's.

Going to go viral? How do we know to trust you? Because where's this information coming from?

Going to go viral? How do we know to trust you? Because where's this information coming from?

What Mel Robbins is and all of those people that are listed at the beginning were they're just very good communicators, right, Because Mel Robbins is obviously smart. She's obviously smart, she's obviously experienced in this field. But what she's saying, and she says this herself, like I've been listening to it. I was listening to her quite a lot the other day on a long drive, and she'll say herself, this is all stuff your grandmother would have told you, if you'd have had the kind of grandmother who tells you things which in itself tells you something about the way our families are now. She said, I'm going to tell you in simple terms, and then I'm going to give you a trick to remember it. It's not that she's come up with all these brilliant ideas necessarily, but she's very good at packaging them, and she's very good at communicating, and that's the key. The thing that's interesting about it is that mel Robins and I'm distant criticism of her, like I find her advice very interesting and helpful lots of ways. But she doesn't really have you back, guys. She's just making a lot of money. She's doing not in a nefarious way. She's selling a product that people need and want. Because I think me is absolutely spot on when she's like, our lives feel out of control. Everything feels out of control. Even the most ordinary life has a lot of problems in it. We all have a lot of problems in five. And the thing that self help, over the decades that it's established itself as being very mainstream has convinced us off is that we can solve them. If only we tried harder, if only we got up earlier, if only we did whatever, then we can solve them. It's up to us. She's the same vein as all that, She's just packaged it a bit differently. It's interesting because she even starts her podcast by saying, Hi, it's your friend mel here, and it's like, you know, like I find that a tiny bit. I think maybe that's also because I'm not American that I find the tiny bit. I can see through it. You know.

What Mel Robbins is and all of those people that are listed at the beginning were they're just very good communicators, right, Because Mel Robbins is obviously smart. She's obviously smart, she's obviously experienced in this field. But what she's saying, and she says this herself, like I've been listening to it. I was listening to her quite a lot the other day on a long drive, and she'll say herself, this is all stuff your grandmother would have told you, if you'd have had the kind of grandmother who tells you things which in itself tells you something about the way our families are now. She said, I'm going to tell you in simple terms, and then I'm going to give you a trick to remember it. It's not that she's come up with all these brilliant ideas necessarily, but she's very good at packaging them, and she's very good at communicating, and that's the key. The thing that's interesting about it is that mel Robins and I'm distant criticism of her, like I find her advice very interesting and helpful lots of ways. But she doesn't really have you back, guys. She's just making a lot of money. She's doing not in a nefarious way. She's selling a product that people need and want. Because I think me is absolutely spot on when she's like, our lives feel out of control. Everything feels out of control. Even the most ordinary life has a lot of problems in it. We all have a lot of problems in five. And the thing that self help, over the decades that it's established itself as being very mainstream has convinced us off is that we can solve them. If only we tried harder, if only we got up earlier, if only we did whatever, then we can solve them. It's up to us. She's the same vein as all that, She's just packaged it a bit differently. It's interesting because she even starts her podcast by saying, Hi, it's your friend mel here, and it's like, you know, like I find that a tiny bit. I think maybe that's also because I'm not American that I find the tiny bit. I can see through it. You know.

It's also that therapy speaking, psychobabble and all of that. It's ubiquitous everywhere at the moment. The rise of that has not dovetailed with a rise in accessibility. So everyone thinks they need a therapist, but most people can't afford one.

It's also that therapy speaking, psychobabble and all of that. It's ubiquitous everywhere at the moment. The rise of that has not dovetailed with a rise in accessibility. So everyone thinks they need a therapist, but most people can't afford one.

So mel Ron know how to go about even getting no.

So mel Ron know how to go about even getting no.

So mel Robins can be your therapist for free. On that on she's trying to sell you something. I do wonder and I listen to a lot of her advice. I don't think she is the same as the other gurus because I look at Brene Brown, who had decades of expertise and academia and studies and she was saying something grounded in.

So mel Robins can be your therapist for free. On that on she's trying to sell you something. I do wonder and I listen to a lot of her advice. I don't think she is the same as the other gurus because I look at Brene Brown, who had decades of expertise and academia and studies and she was saying something grounded in.

Science, and she is still around, and she's still still.

Science, and she is still around, and she's still still.

Around in a way that Mel Robbin's what she's saying isn't necessarily grounded in science, or at least she doesn't show us her working out. But she started as a business coach, and I think that that might be a clue to what her values.

Around in a way that Mel Robbin's what she's saying isn't necessarily grounded in science, or at least she doesn't show us her working out. But she started as a business coach, and I think that that might be a clue to what her values.

That's that you've just made me realize. That's how I found her. I was starting to look at around when I was doing ladies startup and I started to look at some of the women, other women in that space. This is probably more than five years ago now, and that's when I found her. It was about business, and it was about content creation and reaching an audience and doing all of those things.

That's that you've just made me realize. That's how I found her. I was starting to look at around when I was doing ladies startup and I started to look at some of the women, other women in that space. This is probably more than five years ago now, and that's when I found her. It was about business, and it was about content creation and reaching an audience and doing all of those things.

A clue to.

A clue to.

What data or methodology she's bringing to her advice is her background? And is her value system capitalism?

What data or methodology she's bringing to her advice is her background? And is her value system capitalism?

Like?

Like?

Is that it because a lot.

Is that it because a lot.

Of see everyone's value system isism.

Of see everyone's value system isism.

Well, some of us are at least trying to resist.

Well, some of us are at least trying to resist.

But I wonder if not so great because a lot of her advice is very, very individualistic. It's very if you help yourself, you'll help others ah, and that it's not systemic it's not institutional.

But I wonder if not so great because a lot of her advice is very, very individualistic. It's very if you help yourself, you'll help others ah, and that it's not systemic it's not institutional.

It's about accountability.

It's about accountability.

It's about accountability.

It's about accountability.

And taking responsibility for yourself.

And taking responsibility for yourself.

One thing I think we've we've probably got to acknowledge is that a lot of the people who have reported on her and done features and gone and listened to her speak is Wow, that's a lot of white women. I'm not saying that white women don't have problems or that they're not a legitimate market, but the fact that there is a sort of homogeneous market for her, I think says something about what the problems of the white woman is. And maybe it's that if you can feed your family and if you feel safe, and if you're a middle class woman in America, then you worry about X, Y and Z.

One thing I think we've we've probably got to acknowledge is that a lot of the people who have reported on her and done features and gone and listened to her speak is Wow, that's a lot of white women. I'm not saying that white women don't have problems or that they're not a legitimate market, but the fact that there is a sort of homogeneous market for her, I think says something about what the problems of the white woman is. And maybe it's that if you can feed your family and if you feel safe, and if you're a middle class woman in America, then you worry about X, Y and Z.

I don't know about that. What do you think You're not wrong about who her audience is. But I think, as I was saying before, every life is very complex. You only have to scratch the tiny surface of seed that what people are actually going through in terms of illness and divorce and money struggles and estrangement from family members and addiction issues like that applies to all of those.

I don't know about that. What do you think You're not wrong about who her audience is. But I think, as I was saying before, every life is very complex. You only have to scratch the tiny surface of seed that what people are actually going through in terms of illness and divorce and money struggles and estrangement from family members and addiction issues like that applies to all of those.

Do you think she appeals Is it as simple as she's a white woman, so she looks like I think.

Do you think she appeals Is it as simple as she's a white woman, so she looks like I think.

She's very palatable and packageable. She's like, you know, blonde and attractive. But I just think she's a really good communicator. I think that she's ading to and I think the meeting her moment thing I think me nails it about let them and the uncontrollable moment. But also it's interesting is she's a political right I've listened to a lot of interviews with her. She can have a bit of a snipe about Trump, but she's smart enough to know that that's a lot of her market. So she's kind of she's talking to sort of every woman in a way, like every woman, I'm sure, as you say, this is definitely a demographic there, but she's not alienating anyone. She's not making everything political. It's kind of like a mix of This is quite soothing to listen to, and also you've end up listening to her and you're like, yes, I am going to get up at six o'clock. Yes I am going to talk to myself in the mirror like somebody who likes themselves and all those things.

She's very palatable and packageable. She's like, you know, blonde and attractive. But I just think she's a really good communicator. I think that she's ading to and I think the meeting her moment thing I think me nails it about let them and the uncontrollable moment. But also it's interesting is she's a political right I've listened to a lot of interviews with her. She can have a bit of a snipe about Trump, but she's smart enough to know that that's a lot of her market. So she's kind of she's talking to sort of every woman in a way, like every woman, I'm sure, as you say, this is definitely a demographic there, but she's not alienating anyone. She's not making everything political. It's kind of like a mix of This is quite soothing to listen to, and also you've end up listening to her and you're like, yes, I am going to get up at six o'clock. Yes I am going to talk to myself in the mirror like somebody who likes themselves and all those things.

So two of her other philosophies in addition to let them one is the high five trick, and it's every morning you get up, you brush your teeth, and you look in the mirror and you give yourself a high five. Our production team are just high fiving each other now as we speak. But her point is that we are programmed. When you give a high five gesture, you are positive, you are active, you are all of those things, and by doing that, you can't not be, so it almost tricks you, no matter how bad you're feeling. The other one is the five second rule for stopping procrastination, and that is to literally say to yourself, I'm going to count down from five to zero, and when I get to zero, I'm going to do it. Whether it's getting up out of bed, answering an email, calling someone, you always.

So two of her other philosophies in addition to let them one is the high five trick, and it's every morning you get up, you brush your teeth, and you look in the mirror and you give yourself a high five. Our production team are just high fiving each other now as we speak. But her point is that we are programmed. When you give a high five gesture, you are positive, you are active, you are all of those things, and by doing that, you can't not be, so it almost tricks you, no matter how bad you're feeling. The other one is the five second rule for stopping procrastination, and that is to literally say to yourself, I'm going to count down from five to zero, and when I get to zero, I'm going to do it. Whether it's getting up out of bed, answering an email, calling someone, you always.

Speak, but going back to the gap that's been left. And to be clear, when I talk about my my nan going to the priest, yeah, he was always a man, and there are so many limitations issues.

Speak, but going back to the gap that's been left. And to be clear, when I talk about my my nan going to the priest, yeah, he was always a man, and there are so many limitations issues.

With you go with their own agenda to their own agenda.

With you go with their own agenda to their own agenda.

And didn't he pretty much The answer was always say Hail Mary's and you know, go back and look after your children, Tino of your life.

And didn't he pretty much The answer was always say Hail Mary's and you know, go back and look after your children, Tino of your life.

Well, not necessarily of someone's life, but I'm thinking even about the rabbi is they have these scriptures in these books, and underpinning a lot of it was this sense of community and social cohesion, a lot.

Well, not necessarily of someone's life, but I'm thinking even about the rabbi is they have these scriptures in these books, and underpinning a lot of it was this sense of community and social cohesion, a lot.

Of what or it's your fault or it's.

Of what or it's your fault or it's.

Your fault, and let's not forget the homophobia and the sexism and all that and putting that to the side for a minute. Mel Robbins, I mean, high fiving the mirror isn't going to change the world.

Your fault, and let's not forget the homophobia and the sexism and all that and putting that to the side for a minute. Mel Robbins, I mean, high fiving the mirror isn't going to change the world.

But it's not trying to. That's what self help is. Self help isn't about helping other people. And I think that's another reason why she's met the moment. I think that two things. For the last few years, we've seen a real rise in victim culture where whoever's got the biggest hardship wins, and there's a real sense of your wounds are your evidence or is the greatest most important part of you? Your wounds bring status, your disadvantages bring status. She's very much the opposite of that. She's very much like there's nothing to be said for walloweing there's strength in making change, and you can't change systemic inequality, you can't change the economy.

But it's not trying to. That's what self help is. Self help isn't about helping other people. And I think that's another reason why she's met the moment. I think that two things. For the last few years, we've seen a real rise in victim culture where whoever's got the biggest hardship wins, and there's a real sense of your wounds are your evidence or is the greatest most important part of you? Your wounds bring status, your disadvantages bring status. She's very much the opposite of that. She's very much like there's nothing to be said for walloweing there's strength in making change, and you can't change systemic inequality, you can't change the economy.

I think that that's a paladin.

I think that that's a paladin.

As an individual You can't. But what you can do is get out of bed in the morning, high five yourself, and feel better. And we know that the key to making any positive change, whether it's outside your life or inside your life, is feeling good. If you feel miserable and your self esteem is low and you're procrastinating, you're of no good to anyone.

As an individual You can't. But what you can do is get out of bed in the morning, high five yourself, and feel better. And we know that the key to making any positive change, whether it's outside your life or inside your life, is feeling good. If you feel miserable and your self esteem is low and you're procrastinating, you're of no good to anyone.

True.

True.

But I think that there's a difference between Brene Brown, right, it was all about vulnerability and connection. Interestingly is Mel Robins because in saying let them, there's a bit of siloing there, which is sort of like I'm going to do my thing. And I listened to a bunch of Mel Robins in preparation for this, and I like her. I'm not trying to I've just got some questions about what she says. She uses the word winning a lot, and like you are going to be the winner and the past you would have been a loser and all that kind of stuff. And I'm just a little bit allergic to the individualism of her.

But I think that there's a difference between Brene Brown, right, it was all about vulnerability and connection. Interestingly is Mel Robins because in saying let them, there's a bit of siloing there, which is sort of like I'm going to do my thing. And I listened to a bunch of Mel Robins in preparation for this, and I like her. I'm not trying to I've just got some questions about what she says. She uses the word winning a lot, and like you are going to be the winner and the past you would have been a loser and all that kind of stuff. And I'm just a little bit allergic to the individualism of her.

But that's your self help.

But that's your self help.

Is I understand exactly what you mean, though, Jesse, Because although I'm a big believer that a short walk solves every problem, and getting out of bed blah blah. But it is true that it's not going to solve all the problems in the world. To pull yourself up by your bootstraps, just toughen up and get on with it. Really isn't helpful in lots of situations, but it is helpful in some small situations. And I think that me is right that what we're talking about here, and what Mel Robbins is addressing, is what can you control what's in your circle influence. I don't think that means you shouldn't be thinking about inequality, and I don't think that means she shouldn't be thinking about how do I make a difference to the world. I think that that's a very important thing to be thinking about. But in terms of you and your world, that's where Mel Robins has some answers for you. Whether or not she's about connection, she does talk about it. She does talk about I've listened to some of the podcasts where she's like, obviously it's great to be rich and successful and all those things, but she's like, but do you want to be standing on the top of the mountain alone? Really, we're all about our people around us. Really, those messages are all quite similar in the end, how loud is in a moment, something to read, something to wear, and something to listen to.

Is I understand exactly what you mean, though, Jesse, Because although I'm a big believer that a short walk solves every problem, and getting out of bed blah blah. But it is true that it's not going to solve all the problems in the world. To pull yourself up by your bootstraps, just toughen up and get on with it. Really isn't helpful in lots of situations, but it is helpful in some small situations. And I think that me is right that what we're talking about here, and what Mel Robbins is addressing, is what can you control what's in your circle influence. I don't think that means you shouldn't be thinking about inequality, and I don't think that means she shouldn't be thinking about how do I make a difference to the world. I think that that's a very important thing to be thinking about. But in terms of you and your world, that's where Mel Robins has some answers for you. Whether or not she's about connection, she does talk about it. She does talk about I've listened to some of the podcasts where she's like, obviously it's great to be rich and successful and all those things, but she's like, but do you want to be standing on the top of the mountain alone? Really, we're all about our people around us. Really, those messages are all quite similar in the end, how loud is in a moment, something to read, something to wear, and something to listen to.

It's our recommendations, vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

It's our recommendations, vibes, ideas, atmosphere, something casual, something fun.

This is my best recommendation.

This is my best recommendation.

It's right.

It's right.

So we're going to help set up your weekend with our best recommendations. Holly, what am I doing?

So we're going to help set up your weekend with our best recommendations. Holly, what am I doing?

Okay? So I just finished listening to a beautiful book. You know how people often say, how do you guys read and listen to and watch things. I've hacked away to read two books at once. I listened to one and I read another. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I've been listening to a book that isn't new, but it's sort of back in the zeitgeist because later this year a movies coming out of this book that stars Jillian Anderson, who's obviously a goddess of great status, and it's called The Salt Path and it's British book and it's by this woman called rain and Win, so she narrates it. And the reason that I was listening to it is somebody recommended it to me who I interviewed on mid and it's about this woman. It's kind of think of like Wild where Cheryl Strayed went off and walked that big track on her own to find herself and cure herself with alcoholism. This is about this English couple who lose everything. They've got grown up kids who are going after university. They're like comfy middle class people. Actually, mel Robins would have a lot to say to these people. They live a comfy middle class life. They've been living on this beautiful farm in Wales for like twenty years and they've restored it and it's their world, and they lose it all in a scam. They literally are penniless and they're at this point in the life going what are we going to do? They decide that rather than take a council house, which they do and will end up doing eventually, I'm sure, but they go on a long walk and they basically become homeless. But instead of being homeless in the city and in the system, they just put backpacks on and walk.

Okay? So I just finished listening to a beautiful book. You know how people often say, how do you guys read and listen to and watch things. I've hacked away to read two books at once. I listened to one and I read another. Yeah, that's what I'm doing. I've been listening to a book that isn't new, but it's sort of back in the zeitgeist because later this year a movies coming out of this book that stars Jillian Anderson, who's obviously a goddess of great status, and it's called The Salt Path and it's British book and it's by this woman called rain and Win, so she narrates it. And the reason that I was listening to it is somebody recommended it to me who I interviewed on mid and it's about this woman. It's kind of think of like Wild where Cheryl Strayed went off and walked that big track on her own to find herself and cure herself with alcoholism. This is about this English couple who lose everything. They've got grown up kids who are going after university. They're like comfy middle class people. Actually, mel Robins would have a lot to say to these people. They live a comfy middle class life. They've been living on this beautiful farm in Wales for like twenty years and they've restored it and it's their world, and they lose it all in a scam. They literally are penniless and they're at this point in the life going what are we going to do? They decide that rather than take a council house, which they do and will end up doing eventually, I'm sure, but they go on a long walk and they basically become homeless. But instead of being homeless in the city and in the system, they just put backpacks on and walk.

It's interesting.

It's interesting.

Yeah, yeah, it's a memoir. It's true. It's one hundred percent true.

Yeah, yeah, it's a memoir. It's true. It's one hundred percent true.

Like proper Grainer and the other.

Like proper Grainer and the other.

Thing that happens just before they do this, So they lose everything they've ever owned, and then moth he's the husband gets diagnosed with an incurable degenerative disease, so everything's gone to shit. They're fifty and they're like, what do we do? And their kids obviously think they're crazy. They're grown up kids. They put their backpacks on and they walk on this really long walk. Now, the book is really interesting because it makes you think about lots of things. It sounds a bit like a classic like spiritual finding yourself story, and it kind of is great. But because they're literally broke while they're doing this, they can't eat. They get something like thirty pounds a fortnight put in their bank account by like the pension or something, so they're hanging out for that. So they're like trying to find ways to literally survive. They can only comp places that are free. They do lots of frankly quite irresponsible, like verging on illegal things. He's got this terrible illness. He's getting worse. Like it's such an amazing book that listening to it. The woman Rayna Winn who wrote it so won lots of awards. It became a really big book. It came out in twenty eighteen, but this year it's a movie and Rayna Winn narrates it. She's got this beautiful English accent with a slight kind of range voice, and it's just such an interesting story and I loved it. It's that right makes of like it's soothing, but it's also like, oh, what are you doing, you idiots, and like how could you do that? And lots things about what it means to be homeless, blah blah blah. It's called The Saltpath by Rayna When and I loved it.

Thing that happens just before they do this, So they lose everything they've ever owned, and then moth he's the husband gets diagnosed with an incurable degenerative disease, so everything's gone to shit. They're fifty and they're like, what do we do? And their kids obviously think they're crazy. They're grown up kids. They put their backpacks on and they walk on this really long walk. Now, the book is really interesting because it makes you think about lots of things. It sounds a bit like a classic like spiritual finding yourself story, and it kind of is great. But because they're literally broke while they're doing this, they can't eat. They get something like thirty pounds a fortnight put in their bank account by like the pension or something, so they're hanging out for that. So they're like trying to find ways to literally survive. They can only comp places that are free. They do lots of frankly quite irresponsible, like verging on illegal things. He's got this terrible illness. He's getting worse. Like it's such an amazing book that listening to it. The woman Rayna Winn who wrote it so won lots of awards. It became a really big book. It came out in twenty eighteen, but this year it's a movie and Rayna Winn narrates it. She's got this beautiful English accent with a slight kind of range voice, and it's just such an interesting story and I loved it. It's that right makes of like it's soothing, but it's also like, oh, what are you doing, you idiots, and like how could you do that? And lots things about what it means to be homeless, blah blah blah. It's called The Saltpath by Rayna When and I loved it.

Maya, I'm going to recommend a hat maybe that you could wear while you're going on a long walk. Avenue Hats are an Australian lady startup, a small business female founders focused on sustainable designs. I love hats. I've got a lot of caps and I like also straw ish hats. I don't know what these are made out of, but they're a bit like RAFFI A, yeah, that soft. But what I love about them this is the kicker. You can just scrunch them up and put them in your bag, in your suitcase, in your bag. And they sent me a couple and when I looked at them, one of them is like kind of like a straw color. Two of them are, and then one of them is like navy and cream stripes, and I thought, oh no, I wouldn't wear that, and then I put it on and I bloody loved it. Super comfy and just gives you very good coverage because sometimes when you're a cap, it's just that little bit at the front and that all the sun gets in on the sites.

Maya, I'm going to recommend a hat maybe that you could wear while you're going on a long walk. Avenue Hats are an Australian lady startup, a small business female founders focused on sustainable designs. I love hats. I've got a lot of caps and I like also straw ish hats. I don't know what these are made out of, but they're a bit like RAFFI A, yeah, that soft. But what I love about them this is the kicker. You can just scrunch them up and put them in your bag, in your suitcase, in your bag. And they sent me a couple and when I looked at them, one of them is like kind of like a straw color. Two of them are, and then one of them is like navy and cream stripes, and I thought, oh no, I wouldn't wear that, and then I put it on and I bloody loved it. Super comfy and just gives you very good coverage because sometimes when you're a cap, it's just that little bit at the front and that all the sun gets in on the sites.

I have had so many outlouders message me about getting a skincats check after I talked about it recently and said, BCCs around the forehead. And when I went back for my check up, he looked at my part because I part my hair the same all the time, and he said, that's where you've got to be careful of. I can see it's pink. Like every time you're going outside. It isn't enough to do sunscreen. You have to have something on you.

I have had so many outlouders message me about getting a skincats check after I talked about it recently and said, BCCs around the forehead. And when I went back for my check up, he looked at my part because I part my hair the same all the time, and he said, that's where you've got to be careful of. I can see it's pink. Like every time you're going outside. It isn't enough to do sunscreen. You have to have something on you.

When you think about it, it's true. So you've got to a hat because you can't really put sunscreen on your scalp maybe yesh exactly.

When you think about it, it's true. So you've got to a hat because you can't really put sunscreen on your scalp maybe yesh exactly.

And the hat that you're going to wear that you can scrunch up in your backpack or your bag or whatever is the one that, like you should have, so that's very smart.

And the hat that you're going to wear that you can scrunch up in your backpack or your bag or whatever is the one that, like you should have, so that's very smart.

So they're super great. They're around one hundred and twenty dollars. They're not cheap, but they're very sustainable and you will have this forever. They're fantastic.

So they're super great. They're around one hundred and twenty dollars. They're not cheap, but they're very sustainable and you will have this forever. They're fantastic.

I have a book recommendation as well, is called Better Days by claares On.

I have a book recommendation as well, is called Better Days by claares On.

And I get asked to endorse a lot of books, and most of them I do not endorse.

And I get asked to endorse a lot of books, and most of them I do not endorse.

I keep hearing about this book oh so good.

I keep hearing about this book oh so good.

So I was given it and I actually read it on the weekend. I was away, like close to Berry and just read it on this weekend. Absolutely went through it so fast. And it's set in Sydney. It's about motherhood and ambition and marriage and this relationship she had in her twenties that ended, but sort of it's unresolved. You know when you read a book and you fall in love with a writer, like you fall in love with their tone and their voice. It was that, and it happened from the first page.

So I was given it and I actually read it on the weekend. I was away, like close to Berry and just read it on this weekend. Absolutely went through it so fast. And it's set in Sydney. It's about motherhood and ambition and marriage and this relationship she had in her twenties that ended, but sort of it's unresolved. You know when you read a book and you fall in love with a writer, like you fall in love with their tone and their voice. It was that, and it happened from the first page.

It was so warm.

It was so warm.

I haven't heard a bad word about this book. It felt at first like a smallish story about a really believable life. She has kids in this big job and it's about creativity. But it just went to the most interesting places and it had me so so engrossed. So it's called Better Days. It's only come out I think like Last Week or something by Klaerzon and Australian writer.

I haven't heard a bad word about this book. It felt at first like a smallish story about a really believable life. She has kids in this big job and it's about creativity. But it just went to the most interesting places and it had me so so engrossed. So it's called Better Days. It's only come out I think like Last Week or something by Klaerzon and Australian writer.

You'll love it. We'll put links in the show notes to all ofs and also thank you to whichever one of you recommended the wedding People. That was me, I just finished. I don't think it was me. I just finished that. I really love that too. Who she got any other books?

You'll love it. We'll put links in the show notes to all ofs and also thank you to whichever one of you recommended the wedding People. That was me, I just finished. I don't think it was me. I just finished that. I really love that too. Who she got any other books?

I think she might. I think she might.

I think she might. I think she might.

I really loved her style.

I really loved her style.

Yeah yeah, after the break, a fight with technology, a night of entertainment, and a depleted social battery. It is our Best and Worst.

Yeah yeah, after the break, a fight with technology, a night of entertainment, and a depleted social battery. It is our Best and Worst.

One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link at the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

One unlimited out loud access. We drop episodes every Tuesday and Thursday exclusively for Mamma Mia subscribers. Follow the link at the show notes to get us in your ears five days a week. And a huge thank you to all our current subscribers.

It's time for Best and Worst.

It's time for Best and Worst.

This is a part of the show where we share a little bit more from our week from our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst?

This is a part of the show where we share a little bit more from our week from our personal lives. Holly, what was your worst?

So my best and my worst are both technolo related. My worst is the ever ongoing battle with technology and our offspring, which every parent knows about. But also I hid a new low this week, which was, look, I'm one of those people. I've read the Jonathan Heights. I know. I know that the world is being ruined and my children are being ruined by technology. I know that. But still on the weekend, did I allow my son to purchase very expensive virtual reality headset that will guarantee that he no longer lives in my house? It just lives now in some kind of other world with avatars and people with heads of animals. Yes, I absolutely did, because one of the things about technology is that I fired it all the time. And my teenage boys. We all know it's a stereotype, but it's kind of true. In my house. Girls tend to be more into social media and media, and boys tend to be more into gaming. And Billy has always been quite into gaming. He has wanted one of those virtual headset things for about four years, and I've always said no. Little bugger just started saving up his money, saving up his money. He put a chart in his room of like how far away he was from the dream then, and he was like chipping away and chipping away, and then You're like, how do I not reward this? And then he's like, you can put any rules you want around it. You can do anything, and you've got all the voices of all of the collective wisdom of the village going, don't do it, don't do it. And then we did it anyway.

So my best and my worst are both technolo related. My worst is the ever ongoing battle with technology and our offspring, which every parent knows about. But also I hid a new low this week, which was, look, I'm one of those people. I've read the Jonathan Heights. I know. I know that the world is being ruined and my children are being ruined by technology. I know that. But still on the weekend, did I allow my son to purchase very expensive virtual reality headset that will guarantee that he no longer lives in my house? It just lives now in some kind of other world with avatars and people with heads of animals. Yes, I absolutely did, because one of the things about technology is that I fired it all the time. And my teenage boys. We all know it's a stereotype, but it's kind of true. In my house. Girls tend to be more into social media and media, and boys tend to be more into gaming. And Billy has always been quite into gaming. He has wanted one of those virtual headset things for about four years, and I've always said no. Little bugger just started saving up his money, saving up his money. He put a chart in his room of like how far away he was from the dream then, and he was like chipping away and chipping away, and then You're like, how do I not reward this? And then he's like, you can put any rules you want around it. You can do anything, and you've got all the voices of all of the collective wisdom of the village going, don't do it, don't do it. And then we did it anyway.

So I he's smart, and I think that's great parents because he learned about saving well he did.

So I he's smart, and I think that's great parents because he learned about saving well he did.

But when I now walk into the house and he's so weird to have somebody in your house with this weird so I know, I can imagine the emails I'm going to get with the big light thing on, and he's just like waving his hands in the air like it's just weird. I don't like it.

But when I now walk into the house and he's so weird to have somebody in your house with this weird so I know, I can imagine the emails I'm going to get with the big light thing on, and he's just like waving his hands in the air like it's just weird. I don't like it.

His husband got some of those and was wearing them in bed, not in a sexual way, but just in a weird like, you know, and she would send photos of me to me of just like him next to her in bed, and I'm like, dude, do you never want to have sex again?

His husband got some of those and was wearing them in bed, not in a sexual way, but just in a weird like, you know, and she would send photos of me to me of just like him next to her in bed, and I'm like, dude, do you never want to have sex again?

Is that your They're so weird anyway. But my best is also technology because I've been you remember we had that conversation about AI the other week. I've been using AI to do my kids homework, and so my kids, Matilda, particularly now that she's fifteen, her homework is hard. And I was never very good at school, like well, I was always really good at English, and I was good at things like history, but math science absolutely forget it. So I can't do anything that she's doing. So my new best friend is to use the AI.

Is that your They're so weird anyway. But my best is also technology because I've been you remember we had that conversation about AI the other week. I've been using AI to do my kids homework, and so my kids, Matilda, particularly now that she's fifteen, her homework is hard. And I was never very good at school, like well, I was always really good at English, and I was good at things like history, but math science absolutely forget it. So I can't do anything that she's doing. So my new best friend is to use the AI.

Why isn't she doing it herself?

Why isn't she doing it herself?

Well, no, she is doing it herself. But in order to get her to do it, she's like, help me, help me, And I'm like, I can't help you. But what I can do is I can sit there with my AI assistant and so tells me how to help her. It tells you how to explain. I don't get the AI to do it, got it right, like, because that would be bad parenting even for me. What I do is I ask my AI assistant if you were trying to work out out what fraction of this thing was this things, how would you go about doing it? And the AI assistant gives you like really simple kind of like well, first of all, you've got to work out the BLA and tells me that so then I can talk through it. So I'm not giving her the answer, but it's basically like me having a tutor to help tudor.

Well, no, she is doing it herself. But in order to get her to do it, she's like, help me, help me, And I'm like, I can't help you. But what I can do is I can sit there with my AI assistant and so tells me how to help her. It tells you how to explain. I don't get the AI to do it, got it right, like, because that would be bad parenting even for me. What I do is I ask my AI assistant if you were trying to work out out what fraction of this thing was this things, how would you go about doing it? And the AI assistant gives you like really simple kind of like well, first of all, you've got to work out the BLA and tells me that so then I can talk through it. So I'm not giving her the answer, but it's basically like me having a tutor to help tudor.

I had to do something for work recently where I was trying to work out what percentage increase was this number on this number to say, I don't even give me a calculator.

I had to do something for work recently where I was trying to work out what percentage increase was this number on this number to say, I don't even give me a calculator.

I don't know how to work it out.

I don't know how to work it out.

Yeah, So I went to my chatbot and I was like, what's the percentage increase? And then it did all It was being a bit braggy like it was doing all the fraction stuff, and I was like, I don't.

Yeah, So I went to my chatbot and I was like, what's the percentage increase? And then it did all It was being a bit braggy like it was doing all the fraction stuff, and I was like, I don't.

Need to see work to see that simple. I just needed to.

Need to see work to see that simple. I just needed to.

Get whereas I needed to see the working out. And it's made me a more because before I discovered that this was an impression of me, Well, I don't know what do you mean? And then I get cranky, I jump up.

Get whereas I needed to see the working out. And it's made me a more because before I discovered that this was an impression of me, Well, I don't know what do you mean? And then I get cranky, I jump up.

Then she goes, I just need some help.

Then she goes, I just need some help.

I thought you wanted me to do my homework blah blah blah blah blah, ai' making the world better.

I thought you wanted me to do my homework blah blah blah blah blah, ai' making the world better.

I also feel like homeworks hard than it used to be.

I also feel like homeworks hard than it used to be.

I was a tutor for a long time and would be shootering a kid who was, you know, in year five or year six English or something, and he'd go, oh, I have a maths question and I was like, I don't know how to do your two maths like divisions was like harkeed, and I.

I was a tutor for a long time and would be shootering a kid who was, you know, in year five or year six English or something, and he'd go, oh, I have a maths question and I was like, I don't know how to do your two maths like divisions was like harkeed, and I.

Just went, I'm I'm panicking. I'm panicking, may or what's your worst?

Just went, I'm I'm panicking. I'm panicking, may or what's your worst?

My worst is the depletion of my social battery. Like you know how often with your devices they lose battery over time, they get worse and worse at recharging. I feel like that's me. I did an interview on No Filter a couple of years ago about the seven different types of rest and how you can feel really tired, but it has nothing to do with sleep. Might be that you're depleted in another area of rest that you need. It might be around mental rest, emotional rest, and social rest was one that I'd never heard of, but that really spoke to me. And I've noticed that I need more and more time on my own. So I used to think of myself as an extrovert, and the way that apparently distinguished between extroverts and introvert is that extroverts are recharged by being with people broadly, and introverts are recharged by being with themselves. And I'm finding that I'm moving from extrovert to introvert and that I need more and more time on my own, and I'm finding that harder and harder to get because I love my friends. I really want to see my friends. Work for us is very social innately because we work with our friends and we work, you know, I also work with my family, and I work with lots of great women. Then we have great chats all through the day. But I'm just getting more and more tired.

My worst is the depletion of my social battery. Like you know how often with your devices they lose battery over time, they get worse and worse at recharging. I feel like that's me. I did an interview on No Filter a couple of years ago about the seven different types of rest and how you can feel really tired, but it has nothing to do with sleep. Might be that you're depleted in another area of rest that you need. It might be around mental rest, emotional rest, and social rest was one that I'd never heard of, but that really spoke to me. And I've noticed that I need more and more time on my own. So I used to think of myself as an extrovert, and the way that apparently distinguished between extroverts and introvert is that extroverts are recharged by being with people broadly, and introverts are recharged by being with themselves. And I'm finding that I'm moving from extrovert to introvert and that I need more and more time on my own, and I'm finding that harder and harder to get because I love my friends. I really want to see my friends. Work for us is very social innately because we work with our friends and we work, you know, I also work with my family, and I work with lots of great women. Then we have great chats all through the day. But I'm just getting more and more tired.

And I wonder if you've been thrust into like early parenthood again because you find Luna very cut feeling. But you spend a lot of time with Luna, and I wonder if a lot of the time that you were spending on your own recharging is now spent with a you know, nearly two year olds.

And I wonder if you've been thrust into like early parenthood again because you find Luna very cut feeling. But you spend a lot of time with Luna, and I wonder if a lot of the time that you were spending on your own recharging is now spent with a you know, nearly two year olds.

That's really interesting. I find that being with Luna is spiritual rest for me because it comes from a different cup than my social battery, or a different battery than my social battery. Like sometimes I might want to be on my own, but that's kind of different. She fills me up in a different way. I think there's probably some truth in that, though, because a lot of my time on my own is now with her, which I bloody love.

That's really interesting. I find that being with Luna is spiritual rest for me because it comes from a different cup than my social battery, or a different battery than my social battery. Like sometimes I might want to be on my own, but that's kind of different. She fills me up in a different way. I think there's probably some truth in that, though, because a lot of my time on my own is now with her, which I bloody love.

When you're on your own. Just one more questions on this matter. When you're on your own, are you socializing though on your phone? So you're not actually resting, that's socializing.

When you're on your own. Just one more questions on this matter. When you're on your own, are you socializing though on your phone? So you're not actually resting, that's socializing.

Maybe that's part of it because my group chats are always cracking on, and I crack on as well on the group chat, so maybe that's part of it.

Maybe that's part of it because my group chats are always cracking on, and I crack on as well on the group chat, so maybe that's part of it.

You're not really.

You're not really.

No, I agree with you. It's not proper social dreamy rest. I love that. Okay, I'll think about that. And my best is, as you said, Jesse, I did a panel for International Women's Day and met a whole lot about louders afterwards, and what was so interesting was how many of them said, you guys got me through COVID, you guys got me through lockdown, and I'd sort of forgotten about not forgotten about it, but there are so many out louders who discovered us during that time. And we made the decision. I don't know how or why. I think it was just instinctive that we increase the number of episodes that we did during COVID.

No, I agree with you. It's not proper social dreamy rest. I love that. Okay, I'll think about that. And my best is, as you said, Jesse, I did a panel for International Women's Day and met a whole lot about louders afterwards, and what was so interesting was how many of them said, you guys got me through COVID, you guys got me through lockdown, and I'd sort of forgotten about not forgotten about it, but there are so many out louders who discovered us during that time. And we made the decision. I don't know how or why. I think it was just instinctive that we increase the number of episodes that we did during COVID.

I remember Holly suggesting it.

I remember Holly suggesting it.

I was initially against it, and then it was only going to be a COVID thing because we went you know, and then it's stuck and we don't remember.

I was initially against it, and then it was only going to be a COVID thing because we went you know, and then it's stuck and we don't remember.

How crazy that was. We all, I mean, everyone's got their stories about that, but we all had to learn how to record ourselves from home. The entire business did, of course, and we never done it, and we weren't allowed to be together to learn, and then for months we never saw each other. You two did, but we weren't in the same.

How crazy that was. We all, I mean, everyone's got their stories about that, but we all had to learn how to record ourselves from home. The entire business did, of course, and we never done it, and we weren't allowed to be together to learn, and then for months we never saw each other. You two did, but we weren't in the same.

Which was its own challenge.

Which was its own challenge.

It was so wild, I mean. And anyway, so that connection that we had with the out louders was very genuine fust too, right, like it was exactly so.

It was so wild, I mean. And anyway, so that connection that we had with the out louders was very genuine fust too, right, like it was exactly so.