Adam Alter is highly productive. He's a professor of marketing at NYU's Stern School of Business. He's a best selling author, and he's written for everyone from The New Yorker to Wired to Psychology Today. So I was surprised to hear just how simple his productivity system is. In fact, it's barely a system. It's barely more than a handwritten to do list. But that's completely on purpose. And in this chat, Adam also shares his strategies for auditing his productivity and his energy, and his approach to objectively documenting his own life without spending an hour every day journaling. I'm doctor Amantha Imber, an organizational psychologist and the host of How I Work, and I'm trying something a little different for the next few weeks. Is How I Live, a series that gives you an inside look with some super accomplished people's top strategies for living a happy, productive, and impactful life. I'm always curious about what physical possessions have added the most value to people's life, and that's exactly where my chat with Adam starts.

Adam Alter is highly productive. He's a professor of marketing at NYU's Stern School of Business. He's a best selling author, and he's written for everyone from The New Yorker to Wired to Psychology Today. So I was surprised to hear just how simple his productivity system is. In fact, it's barely a system. It's barely more than a handwritten to do list. But that's completely on purpose. And in this chat, Adam also shares his strategies for auditing his productivity and his energy, and his approach to objectively documenting his own life without spending an hour every day journaling. I'm doctor Amantha Imber, an organizational psychologist and the host of How I Work, and I'm trying something a little different for the next few weeks. Is How I Live, a series that gives you an inside look with some super accomplished people's top strategies for living a happy, productive, and impactful life. I'm always curious about what physical possessions have added the most value to people's life, and that's exactly where my chat with Adam starts.

I mean, I think for me, physical possessions are always vehicles to some sort of state of mind or experience that's important. Like I don't think I buy many things for the sake of just having them. And so my favorite pair of running shoes because I spend more time awake running than probably in any other single activity. So my favorite pair of running shoes has brought more joy to me than I think any other single possession physical possession. So I would say the fact that I've rebought maybe ten pairs as an indication that that has been the most valuable possession. Or looking at everything altogether, any.

I mean, I think for me, physical possessions are always vehicles to some sort of state of mind or experience that's important. Like I don't think I buy many things for the sake of just having them. And so my favorite pair of running shoes because I spend more time awake running than probably in any other single activity. So my favorite pair of running shoes has brought more joy to me than I think any other single possession physical possession. So I would say the fact that I've rebought maybe ten pairs as an indication that that has been the most valuable possession. Or looking at everything altogether, any.

Other busyical tools or apps that you found really beneficial when it comes to running, because I remember the last time we spoke, we did speak of it, about running and your habits and rituals around that.

Other busyical tools or apps that you found really beneficial when it comes to running, because I remember the last time we spoke, we did speak of it, about running and your habits and rituals around that.

Yeah, yeah, it's funny. You know. I'm known for being critical of technology, and I think the place where I depart from that view is when technology becomes an incredible utility that makes it easier to do things that we don't really want to have to do, or that makes experiences better. So the classic example for me is Google Maps, which I think is the greatest single technological invention forever. It makes every experience better when you need to know where you are and that's almost all the time, especially in my life the way I live, so I think for me, there are certain utilities on my watch. I try not to pay much attention to it during the run, but it's a watch that gives me a huge amount of feedback about my bodily states, my sleep, and so that has been another possession that for running, it has been tremendous valuable because it tracks my fitness, which is great, but it also I think has so many applications outside of running that it's been one of the best uses of several hundred dollars, which is a you know, it's a reasonable amount to pay for something, but I've been very happy with the utility I've got from it.

Yeah, yeah, it's funny. You know. I'm known for being critical of technology, and I think the place where I depart from that view is when technology becomes an incredible utility that makes it easier to do things that we don't really want to have to do, or that makes experiences better. So the classic example for me is Google Maps, which I think is the greatest single technological invention forever. It makes every experience better when you need to know where you are and that's almost all the time, especially in my life the way I live, so I think for me, there are certain utilities on my watch. I try not to pay much attention to it during the run, but it's a watch that gives me a huge amount of feedback about my bodily states, my sleep, and so that has been another possession that for running, it has been tremendous valuable because it tracks my fitness, which is great, but it also I think has so many applications outside of running that it's been one of the best uses of several hundred dollars, which is a you know, it's a reasonable amount to pay for something, but I've been very happy with the utility I've got from it.

And this is an Apple watch.

And this is an Apple watch.

It's a garment. It's the four runner nine four five I think I have. Yeah, it's the nine four five. And it's when I'm not wearing it, I feel like I'm unmoored. I don't know what's going on in my life, which is probably a problem which speaks too irresistible the book I wrote about how attached we ata technology, which is certainly true of me in this context.

It's a garment. It's the four runner nine four five I think I have. Yeah, it's the nine four five. And it's when I'm not wearing it, I feel like I'm unmoored. I don't know what's going on in my life, which is probably a problem which speaks too irresistible the book I wrote about how attached we ata technology, which is certainly true of me in this context.

I'm very addicted to my Apple Watch. And I feel like, when I'm not wearing it, if I'm stepping, Like if I'm walking, I actually walking, do those steps count in my life and towards my health? Which is ridiculous but.

I'm very addicted to my Apple Watch. And I feel like, when I'm not wearing it, if I'm stepping, Like if I'm walking, I actually walking, do those steps count in my life and towards my health? Which is ridiculous but.

Totally totally no. So I did a workout yesterday, like a twenty minute workout. I have a small weight bench, and I forgot to start it on my watch, and I was like, should I just redo it so that I can capture the data? Which is an absurd thing to think after you've done a workout, But the fact that even entered my mind shows you just how central this is to the way I operate.

Totally totally no. So I did a workout yesterday, like a twenty minute workout. I have a small weight bench, and I forgot to start it on my watch, and I was like, should I just redo it so that I can capture the data? Which is an absurd thing to think after you've done a workout, But the fact that even entered my mind shows you just how central this is to the way I operate.

It does. Now, what's your favorite time saving hack?

It does. Now, what's your favorite time saving hack?

My favorite time saving hack is it's actually something I wrote about in my last book, which is I think I'm perhaps a little pathological on this front. I go a little too far, but I don't let little tasks or little niggles hang around very long. I'm sort of known, I think, for responding to emails absurdly fast, even to the point where perhaps that encroaches on my ability to get really deep work done across big stretches of time, because I turn my time into confetti doing that. Perhaps, but I don't let things linger. I like to get the little things out the way, and I found that over the years when I stop doing that to try different approaches, I get slower and less productive in every other respect. And so that sort of immediately try to get these small things out of the way approach has been very effective for me. And I think one of the reasons for that is that when you leave things, they get bigger, and they might demand a minute to deal with now. But first of all, they occupy a lot of psychic space if you don't deal with them, and so they end up being massive distractions. That's at least how my brain works, and so getting them out the way is a good idea from that perspective. But also they often grow in scope and magnitude, and so I find that almost every time I have an engagement, a consulting engagement, anything like that, the longer the time horizon, the less effective I am. Overall, my efficiency declines. And so that sort of get in there, quick, do it, get it done, move beyond it approach has been very very effective for me.

My favorite time saving hack is it's actually something I wrote about in my last book, which is I think I'm perhaps a little pathological on this front. I go a little too far, but I don't let little tasks or little niggles hang around very long. I'm sort of known, I think, for responding to emails absurdly fast, even to the point where perhaps that encroaches on my ability to get really deep work done across big stretches of time, because I turn my time into confetti doing that. Perhaps, but I don't let things linger. I like to get the little things out the way, and I found that over the years when I stop doing that to try different approaches, I get slower and less productive in every other respect. And so that sort of immediately try to get these small things out of the way approach has been very effective for me. And I think one of the reasons for that is that when you leave things, they get bigger, and they might demand a minute to deal with now. But first of all, they occupy a lot of psychic space if you don't deal with them, and so they end up being massive distractions. That's at least how my brain works, and so getting them out the way is a good idea from that perspective. But also they often grow in scope and magnitude, and so I find that almost every time I have an engagement, a consulting engagement, anything like that, the longer the time horizon, the less effective I am. Overall, my efficiency declines. And so that sort of get in there, quick, do it, get it done, move beyond it approach has been very very effective for me.

How does that work? So I can see in email that would work by just responding to things using a single touch approach, I guess to emails, whereas many of us will open the same email ten times before we actually do something with it. How does it work outside of the inbox?

How does that work? So I can see in email that would work by just responding to things using a single touch approach, I guess to emails, whereas many of us will open the same email ten times before we actually do something with it. How does it work outside of the inbox?

So I use Workflowy, which is a very very simple list and I've been using it for as long as I think it's been a product that was on the market, and it's the most simple to do list system that there is that I've found. And I organize the list. It's very easy to reorganize the order of things. I organize it from smallest to biggest, and so whenever I have a spare moment, I'll just go to that list and say, well, what's at the top there, And that's always the smallest thing and usually the most short term thing, And so I'm constantly kind of shooting down these smaller things that then are out of the way and they clear the way for the bigger things. So although doing that I think does encroach on my ability to have, say, an unbroken four hour stretch doing whatever I want to do, on balance, those four hour stretches become more available because I've got those small things out the way in spare moments here and there. So it's got this paradoxical effect. It does sort of shred your time into smaller bits. But I think it also has this effect because you're constantly moving those things aside of leaving just the big tasks left. And I find that's really useful.

So I use Workflowy, which is a very very simple list and I've been using it for as long as I think it's been a product that was on the market, and it's the most simple to do list system that there is that I've found. And I organize the list. It's very easy to reorganize the order of things. I organize it from smallest to biggest, and so whenever I have a spare moment, I'll just go to that list and say, well, what's at the top there, And that's always the smallest thing and usually the most short term thing, And so I'm constantly kind of shooting down these smaller things that then are out of the way and they clear the way for the bigger things. So although doing that I think does encroach on my ability to have, say, an unbroken four hour stretch doing whatever I want to do, on balance, those four hour stretches become more available because I've got those small things out the way in spare moments here and there. So it's got this paradoxical effect. It does sort of shred your time into smaller bits. But I think it also has this effect because you're constantly moving those things aside of leaving just the big tasks left. And I find that's really useful.

I'm thinking about my own inbox, and I feel like there are always emails that I just sit on or procrastinate over, or just seem too complex, or really they're an email, but they should just move to the to do list. Like, what are the specific strategies that you're using, maybe some of the less obvious ones to actually clean out your inbox daily.

I'm thinking about my own inbox, and I feel like there are always emails that I just sit on or procrastinate over, or just seem too complex, or really they're an email, but they should just move to the to do list. Like, what are the specific strategies that you're using, maybe some of the less obvious ones to actually clean out your inbox daily.

I don't know that they're less obvious, but what I have three places where things go. They never sit in my inbox for long. That's like short term or working memory. I think of it this way. I think of it as working memory, short term memory, and then long term memory. That's sort of the equivalent of what's going on. But for me, short term sorry, working memory, that immediate burst of hey, here's something to do. That's the email inbox, and I don't want to have to deal with things in working memory. I want to file them away so that things from there are then put into my workflowy list, my task list. That's my short term memory, so you know, twenty times a day. Maybe I'll quickly go and take a glance at that and say, well, where are we up to. Sometimes, if I'm really busy, I'll start numbering things or say this is for Monday, this is for Tuesday, this is for Wednesday, and so on. But then there are some things like you describe that just kind of sit there. They're like anchors, and they never go anywhere, and they can be there for months or years. Even for those, I move them out of workflow and they become calendar reminders. So I'll say something like I don't want to have to keep looking at this. I certainly don't want it in my email. I don't even want it in workflowy anymore because it's just cluttering my mind. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to just kind of put a big snooze button on that, and I'll have it pop up, say once a week, for the next four weeks, and if it pops up and I happen to have a bit of time slack, I will then address it there. And I find that to be really useful because I think For me, a lot of what this is, this sort of productivity approach, is about leaving as little clutter in my head as possible, because my biggest enemy is multitasking. I cannot do it. I think it's a myth. Anyone who claims to be able to do it. I'd like to know more about that, because for me it's it's a nightmare. And so I really need to be very focused when I do something, even in very short bursts, and so all of this is in the service of that. It's about saying put that on the back burner, and that even on the long term, long term memory back burner, where I don't even want to think about it till it pops up as a reminder in a week or two or three.

I don't know that they're less obvious, but what I have three places where things go. They never sit in my inbox for long. That's like short term or working memory. I think of it this way. I think of it as working memory, short term memory, and then long term memory. That's sort of the equivalent of what's going on. But for me, short term sorry, working memory, that immediate burst of hey, here's something to do. That's the email inbox, and I don't want to have to deal with things in working memory. I want to file them away so that things from there are then put into my workflowy list, my task list. That's my short term memory, so you know, twenty times a day. Maybe I'll quickly go and take a glance at that and say, well, where are we up to. Sometimes, if I'm really busy, I'll start numbering things or say this is for Monday, this is for Tuesday, this is for Wednesday, and so on. But then there are some things like you describe that just kind of sit there. They're like anchors, and they never go anywhere, and they can be there for months or years. Even for those, I move them out of workflow and they become calendar reminders. So I'll say something like I don't want to have to keep looking at this. I certainly don't want it in my email. I don't even want it in workflowy anymore because it's just cluttering my mind. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to just kind of put a big snooze button on that, and I'll have it pop up, say once a week, for the next four weeks, and if it pops up and I happen to have a bit of time slack, I will then address it there. And I find that to be really useful because I think For me, a lot of what this is, this sort of productivity approach, is about leaving as little clutter in my head as possible, because my biggest enemy is multitasking. I cannot do it. I think it's a myth. Anyone who claims to be able to do it. I'd like to know more about that, because for me it's it's a nightmare. And so I really need to be very focused when I do something, even in very short bursts, and so all of this is in the service of that. It's about saying put that on the back burner, and that even on the long term, long term memory back burner, where I don't even want to think about it till it pops up as a reminder in a week or two or three.

What's a daily or weekly ritual that has had the biggest positive impact on your life over the last few years.

What's a daily or weekly ritual that has had the biggest positive impact on your life over the last few years.

I don't know how common this is. Maybe other people do this, but I felt for a very long time that I was living life at the coal face, and that every day was like everything I was doing was this far from my face, and so I felt like a bit of a rat in a maze at times, and I wasn't sure exactly where I was going, and when I got the next piece of cheese, I just keep running and looking for the next one. And at a certain point I figured as I got older, and I think this happened when I was thirty nine. I have a lot of research on what happens when you're thirty nine or twenty nine, or forty nine or fifty nine, in the fact that that coming of the new decade kind of pushes us to do an audit. When I was thirty nine, I was like, time's passing fairly fast, faster than I remember it passing. And so is this how I want my life to be? And so what I've started doing is taking a small window of maybe twenty minutes. It's usually on a Friday, but it sort of varies depending on what I've got going on. And that's my audit of the week, and not just of the week, but of where things are headed. So what I'll do from week to week is I'll say, Okay, in the last week, has my energy such as I'm using it and pouring it out gone in a direction that's fruitful? Is it in the service of some longer term goal or even short term goal that's valuable. If not, what should I do differently in the coming week. And then the nice thing about doing that is if I take notes, which I do just very brief notes, like a couple of sentences, I can go back and see where I was not just a week ago, but fifty two weeks ago or five years ago, and I can see whether those things have changed, whether I feel satisfied, because often I'll say something. You know, when I was thirty nine, I would have in the first few I would have said some things about maybe writing my next book, which was something that really I felt i'd struggled with. And so now I can look back at that and say, well, I did that, that book's now written, and I'm now that's behind me, So now what's the next thing? And I feel that weekly audited practice is really really valuable because instead of always pouring energy into the thing that's five centimeters in front of you, you actually get to think a little bit more strategically about how you want to live your life and how you're spending your limited time.

I don't know how common this is. Maybe other people do this, but I felt for a very long time that I was living life at the coal face, and that every day was like everything I was doing was this far from my face, and so I felt like a bit of a rat in a maze at times, and I wasn't sure exactly where I was going, and when I got the next piece of cheese, I just keep running and looking for the next one. And at a certain point I figured as I got older, and I think this happened when I was thirty nine. I have a lot of research on what happens when you're thirty nine or twenty nine, or forty nine or fifty nine, in the fact that that coming of the new decade kind of pushes us to do an audit. When I was thirty nine, I was like, time's passing fairly fast, faster than I remember it passing. And so is this how I want my life to be? And so what I've started doing is taking a small window of maybe twenty minutes. It's usually on a Friday, but it sort of varies depending on what I've got going on. And that's my audit of the week, and not just of the week, but of where things are headed. So what I'll do from week to week is I'll say, Okay, in the last week, has my energy such as I'm using it and pouring it out gone in a direction that's fruitful? Is it in the service of some longer term goal or even short term goal that's valuable. If not, what should I do differently in the coming week. And then the nice thing about doing that is if I take notes, which I do just very brief notes, like a couple of sentences, I can go back and see where I was not just a week ago, but fifty two weeks ago or five years ago, and I can see whether those things have changed, whether I feel satisfied, because often I'll say something. You know, when I was thirty nine, I would have in the first few I would have said some things about maybe writing my next book, which was something that really I felt i'd struggled with. And so now I can look back at that and say, well, I did that, that book's now written, and I'm now that's behind me, So now what's the next thing? And I feel that weekly audited practice is really really valuable because instead of always pouring energy into the thing that's five centimeters in front of you, you actually get to think a little bit more strategically about how you want to live your life and how you're spending your limited time.

Are there specific prompting questions that you have on these weekly audits.

Are there specific prompting questions that you have on these weekly audits.

Yeah. One thing I try to do is I try to quantify the percentage. This is silly to do, and I don't mean to suggest that it's a sort of scientific or empirically sound number, But I try to get a sense of the percentage of energy that I've expended in the past week that's in the service of something meaningful, that that will ultimately bring me either meaning or that's just necessary for some reason, which is also its own meaning. Like some tasks that you have to do are not tasks that are especially meaning laden or that feel especially and personally, but they just have to be done, and so that's useful to spend energy doing that, But to get a rough breakdown of how much of your energy is being spent productively, how much of it is being spent checking off these kind of necessary but not particularly enriching activities or goals, and then how much is being wasted And if you could carve away that wasted time and spend it doing something valuable And I don't just mean productivity, I mean sitting in a forest or by the ocean or whatever, that would make your life dramatically better. And so if you see that fifty percent of your time during the work week in the last several work weeks, has it been spent faffing around and not actually doing anything valuable. That's good to know because it suggests you're still getting what you're getting done. Maybe there are other things you could be doing with that time. The other thing I learned from doing this actually is that I cannot work for very long periods before I burn out in a short term. And I didn't know that before, but I have learned that through this process that like getting as solid two hours of deep work of myself is a bit of a miracle. I really I just I think I work very hard and very intensely, and then I'm done and I need to check out for a bit, which I didn't realize before. And so I was working for four hours, which was productive for two. Now I just work for two and say all right, it's time for a break.

Yeah. One thing I try to do is I try to quantify the percentage. This is silly to do, and I don't mean to suggest that it's a sort of scientific or empirically sound number, But I try to get a sense of the percentage of energy that I've expended in the past week that's in the service of something meaningful, that that will ultimately bring me either meaning or that's just necessary for some reason, which is also its own meaning. Like some tasks that you have to do are not tasks that are especially meaning laden or that feel especially and personally, but they just have to be done, and so that's useful to spend energy doing that, But to get a rough breakdown of how much of your energy is being spent productively, how much of it is being spent checking off these kind of necessary but not particularly enriching activities or goals, and then how much is being wasted And if you could carve away that wasted time and spend it doing something valuable And I don't just mean productivity, I mean sitting in a forest or by the ocean or whatever, that would make your life dramatically better. And so if you see that fifty percent of your time during the work week in the last several work weeks, has it been spent faffing around and not actually doing anything valuable. That's good to know because it suggests you're still getting what you're getting done. Maybe there are other things you could be doing with that time. The other thing I learned from doing this actually is that I cannot work for very long periods before I burn out in a short term. And I didn't know that before, but I have learned that through this process that like getting as solid two hours of deep work of myself is a bit of a miracle. I really I just I think I work very hard and very intensely, and then I'm done and I need to check out for a bit, which I didn't realize before. And so I was working for four hours, which was productive for two. Now I just work for two and say all right, it's time for a break.

When you're doing this weekly audit, are you thinking mostly about your work life or are you also doing an audit on your non work life?

When you're doing this weekly audit, are you thinking mostly about your work life or are you also doing an audit on your non work life?

Yeah, so I have I do both. And there are various ways that I do this kind of audit for my life. More broadly, one of them is, since two thousand and two, I've written down maybe three sentences on every single day that sums up the day, like what were the big things in the day, what were the main things that stick out about the day. It's not emotional, it's more just a sort of accounting, objective accounting of what I was doing. And I find that really a fascinating because I think if you forget what you did in two thousand and three, twenty years ago or whatever, then it's like it kind of didn't exist in a sense. And so I really like the idea that myself, who I am, is captured in this very, very objective form. If I could, I would write a page every day. I just don't have the time to do that. But it's really nice to look back. And one nice thing is that every year I do this, either on ne Year's Eve or sometimes on my birthday. I'll look back and actually read through those three sentences times three hundred and sixty five days, and sometimes if I want to do it during the year, I'll do it again for like's what happened over the past month or six months or whatever. And that's a really nice way to audit your life. And it does take some energy and effort, and some nights I don't do it, and then the next night. I have to do it for two in a row or three in a row, and it loses a bit of its fidelity. But it's been a really great practice for me, and as someone who gets anxious about the passing of time, I feel there's something nice about bottling what every day means at its essence and then being able to look back at it. So that's one way that I've been able to audit things beyond just work life.

Yeah, so I have I do both. And there are various ways that I do this kind of audit for my life. More broadly, one of them is, since two thousand and two, I've written down maybe three sentences on every single day that sums up the day, like what were the big things in the day, what were the main things that stick out about the day. It's not emotional, it's more just a sort of accounting, objective accounting of what I was doing. And I find that really a fascinating because I think if you forget what you did in two thousand and three, twenty years ago or whatever, then it's like it kind of didn't exist in a sense. And so I really like the idea that myself, who I am, is captured in this very, very objective form. If I could, I would write a page every day. I just don't have the time to do that. But it's really nice to look back. And one nice thing is that every year I do this, either on ne Year's Eve or sometimes on my birthday. I'll look back and actually read through those three sentences times three hundred and sixty five days, and sometimes if I want to do it during the year, I'll do it again for like's what happened over the past month or six months or whatever. And that's a really nice way to audit your life. And it does take some energy and effort, and some nights I don't do it, and then the next night. I have to do it for two in a row or three in a row, and it loses a bit of its fidelity. But it's been a really great practice for me, and as someone who gets anxious about the passing of time, I feel there's something nice about bottling what every day means at its essence and then being able to look back at it. So that's one way that I've been able to audit things beyond just work life.

It's interesting that you say that, because literally, in the last couple of months, my partner and I bought one of those one sentence a day diaries where you essentially theoretically have it for five years and every day all all the dates are numbered, but the years are not, and so you, you know, write what you're doing on say July twenty fifth, in twenty twenty three, and then when you, you know, have completed a whole year, you can go, oh, one year ago today, I was doing this, and so we've been making that a nightly ritual and there's really only room for one or two sentences. And I asked my partner the other night, I'm like, how are you even approaching this task? Like are you writing down what did you do, or how did you feel, or what the highlight was. I feel like there are so many ways to do that. I like how you described it as almost like like you know, objective accounting in terms of what happened during the day. I'm curious around the format and like almost how you've made this a habit because i feel like this is the kind of thing I think that would appeal to a lot of people, but actually committing to do it every day. So I'm curious what's the format and how have you made it stick? Well? How did you make it stick originally?

It's interesting that you say that, because literally, in the last couple of months, my partner and I bought one of those one sentence a day diaries where you essentially theoretically have it for five years and every day all all the dates are numbered, but the years are not, and so you, you know, write what you're doing on say July twenty fifth, in twenty twenty three, and then when you, you know, have completed a whole year, you can go, oh, one year ago today, I was doing this, and so we've been making that a nightly ritual and there's really only room for one or two sentences. And I asked my partner the other night, I'm like, how are you even approaching this task? Like are you writing down what did you do, or how did you feel, or what the highlight was. I feel like there are so many ways to do that. I like how you described it as almost like like you know, objective accounting in terms of what happened during the day. I'm curious around the format and like almost how you've made this a habit because i feel like this is the kind of thing I think that would appeal to a lot of people, but actually committing to do it every day. So I'm curious what's the format and how have you made it stick? Well? How did you make it stick originally?

Yeah, it's funny. So my camera is unfortunately he fixed, but if I could just turn it over there, there's a whole stack of books that are exactly where you've described, these five years books where they don't have the date and you can enter they have the date, but they don't have the year, and you enter the year. So I've been doing that since twenty twelve. So I've got one that's twelve to sixteen, and then seventeen to whatever, twenty one maybe or twenty two, I can't remember exactly, and then I'm sort of halfway through the next one. So I'm on my third of those. But before that, I used to buy a big wall calendar and each box for each day that that was between two thousand and three or two thousand and two, whatever it was, And where we are now twenty twelve, I have all of it written in there, and so that's the very concrete way that I do it. Is it sounds like the same approach that you use. But this question about how you agender the habit, it's a good question. I mean, for me, at this point it's automatic. I'd be doing it for half my life, and so early on I remember it being a little bit of a hassle. But I think there are a couple of things that are important. Like one thing is your instinct might be it's kind of private, you know, even if it's not very emotional, it's private, and so you might hide it somewhere. To the extent that it's hidden, you're going to forget to do it, and so I keep it pretty visible. And you know, originally my choice not to make it very emotional was partly because it's not what I wanted it for. It wasn't a journal, but also because I always sort of imagined it being read by other people, not intentionally, I didn't want that, but I thought it could happen, and so that that I think is important. One reason to keep it sanitized is so that you can have it out and be reminded of it. So I found that very useful. I also think it's really rewarding, and the only way you get reward from it is if you reread it, you go back, and so I think you need to reinforce the practice by seeing what the value of it is. And so in your first year, when you're doing it, maybe every three weeks or two weeks or four weeks or whatever it is, you pick a schedule, you have a little reminder on your phone or whatever that says, hey, go back and read what you've been doing. And have a purpose for it too, like why are you going back to reread it? What is it that you hope to get from it? And are you getting it from Are you getting that from it? And then I think it does become a habit pretty quickly.

Yeah, it's funny. So my camera is unfortunately he fixed, but if I could just turn it over there, there's a whole stack of books that are exactly where you've described, these five years books where they don't have the date and you can enter they have the date, but they don't have the year, and you enter the year. So I've been doing that since twenty twelve. So I've got one that's twelve to sixteen, and then seventeen to whatever, twenty one maybe or twenty two, I can't remember exactly, and then I'm sort of halfway through the next one. So I'm on my third of those. But before that, I used to buy a big wall calendar and each box for each day that that was between two thousand and three or two thousand and two, whatever it was, And where we are now twenty twelve, I have all of it written in there, and so that's the very concrete way that I do it. Is it sounds like the same approach that you use. But this question about how you agender the habit, it's a good question. I mean, for me, at this point it's automatic. I'd be doing it for half my life, and so early on I remember it being a little bit of a hassle. But I think there are a couple of things that are important. Like one thing is your instinct might be it's kind of private, you know, even if it's not very emotional, it's private, and so you might hide it somewhere. To the extent that it's hidden, you're going to forget to do it, and so I keep it pretty visible. And you know, originally my choice not to make it very emotional was partly because it's not what I wanted it for. It wasn't a journal, but also because I always sort of imagined it being read by other people, not intentionally, I didn't want that, but I thought it could happen, and so that that I think is important. One reason to keep it sanitized is so that you can have it out and be reminded of it. So I found that very useful. I also think it's really rewarding, and the only way you get reward from it is if you reread it, you go back, and so I think you need to reinforce the practice by seeing what the value of it is. And so in your first year, when you're doing it, maybe every three weeks or two weeks or four weeks or whatever it is, you pick a schedule, you have a little reminder on your phone or whatever that says, hey, go back and read what you've been doing. And have a purpose for it too, like why are you going back to reread it? What is it that you hope to get from it? And are you getting it from Are you getting that from it? And then I think it does become a habit pretty quickly.

We will be back soon with Adam talking about the piece of advice he finds himself giving most often. If you're looking for more tips to improve the way you live, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered that help make my life better in some way. You can sign up for that at how I Work dot co. That's how I Work dot Co. I'd love to know, because, like, really, such a large part of your life is being an educator, whether that being in a lecture theater or in a university through to the amazing books that you write that have certainly taught me a lot. I'm wondering what advice do you find yourself giving to people most often?

We will be back soon with Adam talking about the piece of advice he finds himself giving most often. If you're looking for more tips to improve the way you live, I write a short fortnightly newsletter that contains three cool things that I've discovered that help make my life better in some way. You can sign up for that at how I Work dot co. That's how I Work dot Co. I'd love to know, because, like, really, such a large part of your life is being an educator, whether that being in a lecture theater or in a university through to the amazing books that you write that have certainly taught me a lot. I'm wondering what advice do you find yourself giving to people most often?

So I would say the advice I give most often is the advice that was most valuable to me early in my career, which was to kind of treat yourself as an index fund. And what I mean by that is, if you think about investing, if you pour all your money in one stock and the stock tanks, you're done your toast. That's the end of you. And if you pour all your money into a broad base of five hundred stocks that are reflective of the market as a whole, the whole economy would need to tank for a very very long time for you to be in really big trouble. And so you know, there are ups and downs, and there are some components of that index fund that will be good in a certain moment, and some will be bad and drag you down a little, and that's unfortunate. But on balance, if you're bullish about the fact that ultimately we as a population are going to grow and that the world's economy is going to grow in the long run, then you're doing the right thing. I think that's true about how we should think about our work lives as well, and really with life in general. But diversity, variety and creating an index fund of your work portfolio is really important. So if you look at your work and you say, my work is one stock, I'm pouring all of my money in time and energy and all the other resources into this one stock, it could tank any time. And this is what happened to me early on in my grad school career. I worked on this project for six months and then someone else published the pub the paper that was based on what I thought the idea was, and my advisor came to me and said, look, that's six months down the drain. That's just how academia works. I was like, I don't want to be part of a system where that can happen. So then I started working with like six different professors on six different projects, some of which ended up being the things that got me jobs later on, and some of which just went nowhere. I think that's a really valuable idea, like you should have multiple sources of income if you can. And that's not for everyone. It depends on the structure of your life. If you're a professional, maybe that doesn't work. Maybe there are non competes that prevent that. But try to thicken what it is that you are, whether at work or otherwise, and add as many just little limbs to that as you can. And I think that that has served me well since that time. That was two thousand and four, so we're going on twenty years and I can't tell you how many times I've been saved by this diversification approach. And so that's the most common piece of advice. Students will ask me, like what should I do with my career, and I'm like, I don't care what you do. Just diversify. Make sure the downside is as protected as possible. And I've always found that to be useful.

So I would say the advice I give most often is the advice that was most valuable to me early in my career, which was to kind of treat yourself as an index fund. And what I mean by that is, if you think about investing, if you pour all your money in one stock and the stock tanks, you're done your toast. That's the end of you. And if you pour all your money into a broad base of five hundred stocks that are reflective of the market as a whole, the whole economy would need to tank for a very very long time for you to be in really big trouble. And so you know, there are ups and downs, and there are some components of that index fund that will be good in a certain moment, and some will be bad and drag you down a little, and that's unfortunate. But on balance, if you're bullish about the fact that ultimately we as a population are going to grow and that the world's economy is going to grow in the long run, then you're doing the right thing. I think that's true about how we should think about our work lives as well, and really with life in general. But diversity, variety and creating an index fund of your work portfolio is really important. So if you look at your work and you say, my work is one stock, I'm pouring all of my money in time and energy and all the other resources into this one stock, it could tank any time. And this is what happened to me early on in my grad school career. I worked on this project for six months and then someone else published the pub the paper that was based on what I thought the idea was, and my advisor came to me and said, look, that's six months down the drain. That's just how academia works. I was like, I don't want to be part of a system where that can happen. So then I started working with like six different professors on six different projects, some of which ended up being the things that got me jobs later on, and some of which just went nowhere. I think that's a really valuable idea, like you should have multiple sources of income if you can. And that's not for everyone. It depends on the structure of your life. If you're a professional, maybe that doesn't work. Maybe there are non competes that prevent that. But try to thicken what it is that you are, whether at work or otherwise, and add as many just little limbs to that as you can. And I think that that has served me well since that time. That was two thousand and four, so we're going on twenty years and I can't tell you how many times I've been saved by this diversification approach. And so that's the most common piece of advice. Students will ask me, like what should I do with my career, and I'm like, I don't care what you do. Just diversify. Make sure the downside is as protected as possible. And I've always found that to be useful.

It's interesting when you think about diversification because it involves a lot of saying yes, but Ultimately, the more you do and also the more high profile you become, it also involves saying no. So I'm wondering, when it comes to increasing your current level of diversification, how do you decide whether an opportunity is a good one to say yes to or whether you say no to it.

It's interesting when you think about diversification because it involves a lot of saying yes, but Ultimately, the more you do and also the more high profile you become, it also involves saying no. So I'm wondering, when it comes to increasing your current level of diversification, how do you decide whether an opportunity is a good one to say yes to or whether you say no to it.

Yeah, So this gets it again something that I talked about quite a lot in my last book. There's a whole chapter on this idea of the distinction between exploration and exploitation and exploration broadly speaking, is this period of time where you say, I want to try a lot of things. This is my yes period. So I give a talk to NYU freshmen. These are first year university students, and I basically say to them, this is your four years to be exploratory, and that means saying yes to everything, and you will be exhausted and sometimes you'll say, I don't know if I want to do that. Your default should be yes. If you're burning out, say no. But that aside, you should be diversifying, saying yes to as many things as possible so that you can explore. Because one thing I show them is that of the ten thousand emails I've received, in the last fifteen years, say four of them change my life. But when you get them, you don't know they're going to change your life.

Yeah, So this gets it again something that I talked about quite a lot in my last book. There's a whole chapter on this idea of the distinction between exploration and exploitation and exploration broadly speaking, is this period of time where you say, I want to try a lot of things. This is my yes period. So I give a talk to NYU freshmen. These are first year university students, and I basically say to them, this is your four years to be exploratory, and that means saying yes to everything, and you will be exhausted and sometimes you'll say, I don't know if I want to do that. Your default should be yes. If you're burning out, say no. But that aside, you should be diversifying, saying yes to as many things as possible so that you can explore. Because one thing I show them is that of the ten thousand emails I've received, in the last fifteen years, say four of them change my life. But when you get them, you don't know they're going to change your life.

I mean.

I mean.

So one of them was, hey, have you thought about writing a book? And my instinct was to be like, I'm so busy. I always feel busy. No, I can't do this. But I was an inexploratory period, and I said yes. Another one was to establish what became my consulting career. Another one, you know, there are all these little emails that actually show verbatim minus identifiers, and the students, I think, get a sense of the importance of that exploratory period. So that's the time to say yes. But you can't do that all the time. Right now, I'm very much not in an exploratory period. I have all the things I need. I've diversified. Now I'm exploiting. And that's what exploitation is. And that's where you basically say no to everything that isn't exactly about what you're focusing on. And you have to make the transition from one to the other because you can't always be exploratory, you can't always be diversifying. But I remember an example of this is I think a huge part of my professional life in twenty nineteen going into early twenty twenty was speaking a speaking career, and it had grown every year since twenty eleven, and it had become something that was a big part of my life. I derived a lot of pleasure from it, and I also it was financially important for me. And then COVID hit and it went to zero and I had diversified, So it wasn't the end of the world, but it was a really big part of my portfolio. And so then I immediately at the beginning of COVID went back into exploratory mode, and so that was a trigger for me to go from exploitation to exploration. So I think you do need to think about that. When are you exploring, when are you exploiting? And how do you know when to transition. You cannot always explore, but you also can't exploit forever without exploring, because eventually the well runs dry and you've got to think about new things.

So one of them was, hey, have you thought about writing a book? And my instinct was to be like, I'm so busy. I always feel busy. No, I can't do this. But I was an inexploratory period, and I said yes. Another one was to establish what became my consulting career. Another one, you know, there are all these little emails that actually show verbatim minus identifiers, and the students, I think, get a sense of the importance of that exploratory period. So that's the time to say yes. But you can't do that all the time. Right now, I'm very much not in an exploratory period. I have all the things I need. I've diversified. Now I'm exploiting. And that's what exploitation is. And that's where you basically say no to everything that isn't exactly about what you're focusing on. And you have to make the transition from one to the other because you can't always be exploratory, you can't always be diversifying. But I remember an example of this is I think a huge part of my professional life in twenty nineteen going into early twenty twenty was speaking a speaking career, and it had grown every year since twenty eleven, and it had become something that was a big part of my life. I derived a lot of pleasure from it, and I also it was financially important for me. And then COVID hit and it went to zero and I had diversified, So it wasn't the end of the world, but it was a really big part of my portfolio. And so then I immediately at the beginning of COVID went back into exploratory mode, and so that was a trigger for me to go from exploitation to exploration. So I think you do need to think about that. When are you exploring, when are you exploiting? And how do you know when to transition. You cannot always explore, but you also can't exploit forever without exploring, because eventually the well runs dry and you've got to think about new things.

Now, if I gifted you a plaque to put on your wall and it had something that you'd like to constantly be reminded of, what would that plaque say.

Now, if I gifted you a plaque to put on your wall and it had something that you'd like to constantly be reminded of, what would that plaque say.

Go to bed. I feel as though I manage my time fairly carefully until my kids are asleep. I have kids who are six and seven, and I feel like I was a very good manager of my time even in those later hours until I had kids. But now I punish my mourning self by almost always staying up too late. And I feel that a plaque or something similar that nudged me on to go to bed would would make my life. If I think about the plaque that would bring me the most benefit in my life. Knowing how important sleep is, that's probably the one go to bed.

Go to bed. I feel as though I manage my time fairly carefully until my kids are asleep. I have kids who are six and seven, and I feel like I was a very good manager of my time even in those later hours until I had kids. But now I punish my mourning self by almost always staying up too late. And I feel that a plaque or something similar that nudged me on to go to bed would would make my life. If I think about the plaque that would bring me the most benefit in my life. Knowing how important sleep is, that's probably the one go to bed.

What is it that stops you from doing the thing that you know is good for you.

What is it that stops you from doing the thing that you know is good for you.

Yeah, it's It's funny because it's like, it's not simple in that I feel like the periods of my day when I'm extremely busy during the day sometimes and then my kids come home and I love spending time with them, but that's also really busy. So the only hedonically appealing time that I have that's truly for me is that time at night, and so sometimes I knowingly sacrifice sleep. It's not like I'm just hoodwinking myself and thinking I'll be okay in the morning. It's that I'm like, it's like when you have a couple maybe too many drinks or something like that, and you're like, I want to have fun now I'm going to sacrifice how I feel tomorrow. It's the same sort of decision, and so I don't always think it's the wrong decision, but I think chronically I make the wrong decision. When it's the same decision over and over again, it becomes the wrong one. That's where the plaque would come in. Handy nudge me the other way.

Yeah, it's It's funny because it's like, it's not simple in that I feel like the periods of my day when I'm extremely busy during the day sometimes and then my kids come home and I love spending time with them, but that's also really busy. So the only hedonically appealing time that I have that's truly for me is that time at night, and so sometimes I knowingly sacrifice sleep. It's not like I'm just hoodwinking myself and thinking I'll be okay in the morning. It's that I'm like, it's like when you have a couple maybe too many drinks or something like that, and you're like, I want to have fun now I'm going to sacrifice how I feel tomorrow. It's the same sort of decision, and so I don't always think it's the wrong decision, but I think chronically I make the wrong decision. When it's the same decision over and over again, it becomes the wrong one. That's where the plaque would come in. Handy nudge me the other way.

Finally, Adam, for people that want to connect with you, read your work, consumer more of what you're doing. What's the best way for people to do that?

Finally, Adam, for people that want to connect with you, read your work, consumer more of what you're doing. What's the best way for people to do that?

There are a few ways. One is through the books I guess, which are the kind of culminations of the things I've thought about for periods of several years. And so there are three of those. The most recent was published just a couple of months ago. So I think that's one good place that you can learn about what I'm thinking about more sort of moment to moment. The one social media platform that I spend more time on than any other at the moment is LinkedIn, and so that's one place. And if you look at my NYU website, which is publicly available, it's pretty easy to find. Or my personal website, I off and update that with whatever's going on in my life. Sometimes I write pieces in the popular press and so on, so those, if they're available, will be placed there. And sometimes there are videos and interviews and things like that, so those are the best places.

There are a few ways. One is through the books I guess, which are the kind of culminations of the things I've thought about for periods of several years. And so there are three of those. The most recent was published just a couple of months ago. So I think that's one good place that you can learn about what I'm thinking about more sort of moment to moment. The one social media platform that I spend more time on than any other at the moment is LinkedIn, and so that's one place. And if you look at my NYU website, which is publicly available, it's pretty easy to find. Or my personal website, I off and update that with whatever's going on in my life. Sometimes I write pieces in the popular press and so on, so those, if they're available, will be placed there. And sometimes there are videos and interviews and things like that, so those are the best places.

I hope you got value from my chat with Adam. I must say that having this conversation made me double down on my one line a day journaling, but it also made me realize the importance of reading back over my journal entries, which I now find is probably the best motivator to keep myself doing it on a daily basis. Thank you so much for sharing part of your day with me by listening to How I Live. If you're keen for more tips on how to work better and live better, connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram to search for Amantha Imba How I Live with recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the Cool and Nation. I'm so grateful for being able to work and live on this beautiful land, and I want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. How I Live is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for this episode was Liamridan and sound engineering was done by Martin Imber

I hope you got value from my chat with Adam. I must say that having this conversation made me double down on my one line a day journaling, but it also made me realize the importance of reading back over my journal entries, which I now find is probably the best motivator to keep myself doing it on a daily basis. Thank you so much for sharing part of your day with me by listening to How I Live. If you're keen for more tips on how to work better and live better, connect with me on LinkedIn or Instagram to search for Amantha Imba How I Live with recorded on the traditional land of the Warrangery people, part of the Cool and Nation. I'm so grateful for being able to work and live on this beautiful land, and I want to pay my respects to elder's past, present and emerging. How I Live is produced by Inventium with production support from Dead Set Studios. The producer for this episode was Liamridan and sound engineering was done by Martin Imber