A few months ago, sweat co founder and fitzbos star Kayla It's Cenis invited me on her podcast Sweat Daily to talk all about healthy habits, and Kayla has kindly given me the interview to share with you guys. In this chat, we discuss how to hack your health habits through breaking down barriers, habit stacking, and a technique called temptation bundling, and we deep dive into helping Kayla tame her mobile phone habit. So if you're like Kayla and you're using your mobile phone a bit too much, this episode will help. So let's get into today's crossover episode of Sweat Daily with Kayler, It's Nus and me in the guest chair. Here the world clearly with story mass fitness schuru, Kayla It's Cenis.

A few months ago, sweat co founder and fitzbos star Kayla It's Cenis invited me on her podcast Sweat Daily to talk all about healthy habits, and Kayla has kindly given me the interview to share with you guys. In this chat, we discuss how to hack your health habits through breaking down barriers, habit stacking, and a technique called temptation bundling, and we deep dive into helping Kayla tame her mobile phone habit. So if you're like Kayla and you're using your mobile phone a bit too much, this episode will help. So let's get into today's crossover episode of Sweat Daily with Kayler, It's Nus and me in the guest chair. Here the world clearly with story mass fitness schuru, Kayla It's Cenis.

Hi, I'm calor It Senas and this is Sweat Daily. As always on Wednesdays, we deep dive with an expert related to our theme of the week, aiming to get the answers to all of our burning questions. Now this week we are digging into habit building, how to break bad ones, and how to get better at building healthier ones. Now I am joined today by organizational psychologists, author podcaster The Amazing Doctor Amasa Fimber.

Hi, I'm calor It Senas and this is Sweat Daily. As always on Wednesdays, we deep dive with an expert related to our theme of the week, aiming to get the answers to all of our burning questions. Now this week we are digging into habit building, how to break bad ones, and how to get better at building healthier ones. Now I am joined today by organizational psychologists, author podcaster The Amazing Doctor Amasa Fimber.

This podcast represents the opinions of the hosting guests to the podcast only and should not be taken as medical advice. The content is for informational purposes only, and because every person is different, you should consult your health care provider for any medical questions or concerns. While we make every effort to ensure that the information provided is accurate, no guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast.

This podcast represents the opinions of the hosting guests to the podcast only and should not be taken as medical advice. The content is for informational purposes only, and because every person is different, you should consult your health care provider for any medical questions or concerns. While we make every effort to ensure that the information provided is accurate, no guarantee is given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made on the podcast.

Amantha, thank you so much for joining us today. I am so excited. First I need to ask you you are an organizational psychologist. Please tell me what that means.

Amantha, thank you so much for joining us today. I am so excited. First I need to ask you you are an organizational psychologist. Please tell me what that means.

What organizational psychology is all about is helping people thrive at work and be at their best, feel their best, and do their best work. That's how I see the field, and a lot of that involves habit change. So people will come to us if say their teams are feeling burnt out and exhausted and overloaded and don't know how to prioritize. So we might be helping a team who are just feeling really stuck with ideas and opportunities and we help them think bigger and better.

What organizational psychology is all about is helping people thrive at work and be at their best, feel their best, and do their best work. That's how I see the field, and a lot of that involves habit change. So people will come to us if say their teams are feeling burnt out and exhausted and overloaded and don't know how to prioritize. So we might be helping a team who are just feeling really stuck with ideas and opportunities and we help them think bigger and better.

And create good habits.

And create good habits.

Exactly great. I love that so much.

Exactly great. I love that so much.

I have a bad habit and I really want to talk to you about it because I feel like everyone listening has the same bad habit and that is on my phone.

I have a bad habit and I really want to talk to you about it because I feel like everyone listening has the same bad habit and that is on my phone.

So is this a bad habit?

So is this a bad habit?

I think I know the answer, And how do we get out of this because it feels so addictive?

I think I know the answer, And how do we get out of this because it feels so addictive?

Okay, so do we want to do a bit of a coaching session here?

Okay, so do we want to do a bit of a coaching session here?

Can well please coach me and everyone listening because we all need to put our phones down and we all can't.

Can well please coach me and everyone listening because we all need to put our phones down and we all can't.

Amazing. So the first thing to start with when we're looking at changing a habit is understanding what are like the biggest barriers in the way to behavior change. So the four main barriers in the way of making a change and in this case getting off your phone, and we can apply this in the context of health as well. First main barrier to change is motivation. So sometimes we're told that we have to change our behavior, but we don't really want to because, let's face it, instead, TikTok, they're very addictive. You know, a lot of short term pleasure there. So the second barrier is relational. So this is the social norms that might be driving us to behave in a certain way. So with your phone, like maybe your partner also spends a lot of time on his phone and you're both just kind of in mobile phone world a lot of the time. And so if that's the social norm in your household or in your workplace, that's going to be a bit of a barrier in the way to changing your behavior. So we've got motivation, We've got relational barriers. Then we've got environmental barriers. So this is about the physical environment that we live, work and play in. If, for example, your phone is always within a meter of you, like it's always within reach, it's just so easy to pick up and grab, potentially that is a barrier getting in the way. If you had a rule where that phone is always going to be in a separate room to where you are, which places a physical barrier in the way of you picking it out, that will change behavior. So environmental barriers might be a player, I like, if I would guess, I think that's what it might be. Then the vinyl barrier is around cognitive barriers where we're just so tired and exhausted and when we feel like that, it's really hard to create new habits and to break old ones. So they're the four things motivation, relational barriers, environmental barriers, and cognitive barriers. Kayla, what do you reckon?

Amazing. So the first thing to start with when we're looking at changing a habit is understanding what are like the biggest barriers in the way to behavior change. So the four main barriers in the way of making a change and in this case getting off your phone, and we can apply this in the context of health as well. First main barrier to change is motivation. So sometimes we're told that we have to change our behavior, but we don't really want to because, let's face it, instead, TikTok, they're very addictive. You know, a lot of short term pleasure there. So the second barrier is relational. So this is the social norms that might be driving us to behave in a certain way. So with your phone, like maybe your partner also spends a lot of time on his phone and you're both just kind of in mobile phone world a lot of the time. And so if that's the social norm in your household or in your workplace, that's going to be a bit of a barrier in the way to changing your behavior. So we've got motivation, We've got relational barriers. Then we've got environmental barriers. So this is about the physical environment that we live, work and play in. If, for example, your phone is always within a meter of you, like it's always within reach, it's just so easy to pick up and grab, potentially that is a barrier getting in the way. If you had a rule where that phone is always going to be in a separate room to where you are, which places a physical barrier in the way of you picking it out, that will change behavior. So environmental barriers might be a player, I like, if I would guess, I think that's what it might be. Then the vinyl barrier is around cognitive barriers where we're just so tired and exhausted and when we feel like that, it's really hard to create new habits and to break old ones. So they're the four things motivation, relational barriers, environmental barriers, and cognitive barriers. Kayla, what do you reckon?

It is?

It is?

For you and the phone? I'm gonna blame my husband.

For you and the phone? I'm gonna blame my husband.

He is always on his phone, so there is that the phone is always on me. I think that social media is addictive. I think it's a dopamine hit for me. I like that, and I feel like as soon as I get off the phone.

He is always on his phone, so there is that the phone is always on me. I think that social media is addictive. I think it's a dopamine hit for me. I like that, and I feel like as soon as I get off the phone.

I'm like, hmm, I'm bored.

I'm like, hmm, I'm bored.

It just feels like it's one of those things that I just feel like I can't break. And I think this is very common, and people are listening.

It just feels like it's one of those things that I just feel like I can't break. And I think this is very common, and people are listening.

You hear this.

You hear this.

If it's not your phone, it's something else, And like you said, it might be processed food or not going to the gym or whatever it is. And you think, but that's just too hard. So how do we get out of that mindset of well, that's just too hard.

If it's not your phone, it's something else, And like you said, it might be processed food or not going to the gym or whatever it is. And you think, but that's just too hard. So how do we get out of that mindset of well, that's just too hard.

It's very common, and I think a lot of people beat themselves up when they're unsuccessful in making a change. But what's really important to know is that knowing something like having the knowledge or information is not enough to make a change. So don't beat yourself up if you're really struggling to change a habit, because most of us do struggle. I'll send an assessment to put in the show notes so that people listening can actually identify what is the biggest barrier standing in the way, because that is the first thing to do. Once you can identify that, you compare a behavior change strategy that is going to actually work. I'm just thinking about what you said about Jay and if you're in a household where you and your husband are using the phone a lot, because I think it's really hard if you're trying to break your phone habit, but Jay is not, and so what you could do there A really good strategy when you're trying to overcome a relational barrier is actually finding a strategy that does involve other people. And so a perfect one for you guys might be having an accountability buddy where you share your goal and maybe you have a joint goal around this. If Jay is also struggling as well, it's just say, okay, I have a goal to just be off social media from seven o'clock a night, let's say, and maybe you both get set that goal and you act as each other's accountability.

It's very common, and I think a lot of people beat themselves up when they're unsuccessful in making a change. But what's really important to know is that knowing something like having the knowledge or information is not enough to make a change. So don't beat yourself up if you're really struggling to change a habit, because most of us do struggle. I'll send an assessment to put in the show notes so that people listening can actually identify what is the biggest barrier standing in the way, because that is the first thing to do. Once you can identify that, you compare a behavior change strategy that is going to actually work. I'm just thinking about what you said about Jay and if you're in a household where you and your husband are using the phone a lot, because I think it's really hard if you're trying to break your phone habit, but Jay is not, and so what you could do there A really good strategy when you're trying to overcome a relational barrier is actually finding a strategy that does involve other people. And so a perfect one for you guys might be having an accountability buddy where you share your goal and maybe you have a joint goal around this. If Jay is also struggling as well, it's just say, okay, I have a goal to just be off social media from seven o'clock a night, let's say, and maybe you both get set that goal and you act as each other's accountability.

I love that.

I love that.

And this is not only applied to the phone.

And this is not only applied to the phone.

This applies to I'm thinking now as you're speaking, I'm saying this applies to fitness as well. It's really hard to change your health and fitness journey when your partner, the people are living with you are not on board and not doing the same thing. There was another thing I heard about. I heard this word so many times, but I would love for you to explain as an expert what habit stacking is and how we can all apply it to our lives, because it just seems so simple and the easiest thing to do.

This applies to I'm thinking now as you're speaking, I'm saying this applies to fitness as well. It's really hard to change your health and fitness journey when your partner, the people are living with you are not on board and not doing the same thing. There was another thing I heard about. I heard this word so many times, but I would love for you to explain as an expert what habit stacking is and how we can all apply it to our lives, because it just seems so simple and the easiest thing to do.

Habit stacking is particularly useful, I would say, when there's a cognitive barrier at play, like when you're just feeling exhausted and overwhelmed and the idea of creating a new habit just seems overwhelming. So what habit stacking is, because ultimately, let's remember it, habit is something that is automatic. It just happens. That is what a habit is. I would say most people would be in the habit of brushing their teeth, and let's just say you've got the brushing your teeth habit down pat But maybe your dentist had said, Kaylie, you really need to start flossing, and you might think to yourself, oh my gosh, I hate flossing, and how am I going to remember? That? Just seems too hard. Habit stacking would involve creating a trigger in your mind to say, okay, when I brush my teeth, which is an existing habit that will trigger me to go, now I need to floss. So it's stacking a new habit on top of something that already exists.

Habit stacking is particularly useful, I would say, when there's a cognitive barrier at play, like when you're just feeling exhausted and overwhelmed and the idea of creating a new habit just seems overwhelming. So what habit stacking is, because ultimately, let's remember it, habit is something that is automatic. It just happens. That is what a habit is. I would say most people would be in the habit of brushing their teeth, and let's just say you've got the brushing your teeth habit down pat But maybe your dentist had said, Kaylie, you really need to start flossing, and you might think to yourself, oh my gosh, I hate flossing, and how am I going to remember? That? Just seems too hard. Habit stacking would involve creating a trigger in your mind to say, okay, when I brush my teeth, which is an existing habit that will trigger me to go, now I need to floss. So it's stacking a new habit on top of something that already exists.

So people listening, they're thinking, I want to create that good habit of every day going to the gym or doing a workout, how would you habit stack when you have one never been to the gym before, so you've never created the good habit and how would you start that?

So people listening, they're thinking, I want to create that good habit of every day going to the gym or doing a workout, how would you habit stack when you have one never been to the gym before, so you've never created the good habit and how would you start that?

And I think let's even take going to the gym, like a different physical location out of the equation, because that's a huge barrier in the way. And I know that you're obviously a big fan of the home workout and what can be achieved with literally no equipment. So if we're talking about habit stacking and trying to create some sort of movement or exercise habit. I like to think about what time of the day do you realistically think, yeah, I could do that. There's a lot of benefits that come with exercising in the morning in terms of boosting out energy and mood for the rest of the day. So let's just say you have a cup of coffee every morning. Then what you might say to yourself is, when I'm making the coffee, when I'm boiling the kettle, I am going to do, say ten squats, ten air squats up and down, and that's it start really small, and then what you do is it just start to build up from there. I think, what are the barriers? And I mean, like you'd know this more than me. To exercise is that people think they need like a thirty minute or sixty minute block of time, and that can feel huge, but it doesn't require that. All you need you can do a set of anything in like sixty seconds, and that might be the time it takes for the kettle to boil while you're making a coffee. We will be back in a moment where I answer the question do we really need a large dose of discipline to make a successful change to our behavior? If you're looking for more tips to improve the way you work and live. I write a weekly newsletter where I share practical and simple to apply tips to improve your life. You can sign up for that at Amantha dot substack dot com. That's Amantha dot substack dot com.

And I think let's even take going to the gym, like a different physical location out of the equation, because that's a huge barrier in the way. And I know that you're obviously a big fan of the home workout and what can be achieved with literally no equipment. So if we're talking about habit stacking and trying to create some sort of movement or exercise habit. I like to think about what time of the day do you realistically think, yeah, I could do that. There's a lot of benefits that come with exercising in the morning in terms of boosting out energy and mood for the rest of the day. So let's just say you have a cup of coffee every morning. Then what you might say to yourself is, when I'm making the coffee, when I'm boiling the kettle, I am going to do, say ten squats, ten air squats up and down, and that's it start really small, and then what you do is it just start to build up from there. I think, what are the barriers? And I mean, like you'd know this more than me. To exercise is that people think they need like a thirty minute or sixty minute block of time, and that can feel huge, but it doesn't require that. All you need you can do a set of anything in like sixty seconds, and that might be the time it takes for the kettle to boil while you're making a coffee. We will be back in a moment where I answer the question do we really need a large dose of discipline to make a successful change to our behavior? If you're looking for more tips to improve the way you work and live. I write a weekly newsletter where I share practical and simple to apply tips to improve your life. You can sign up for that at Amantha dot substack dot com. That's Amantha dot substack dot com.

The other thing that I wanted to ask you about was motivation is what gets you started, but discipline is what keeps you going. How do people even get the motivation to start and how do they then get the discipline to continue?

The other thing that I wanted to ask you about was motivation is what gets you started, but discipline is what keeps you going. How do people even get the motivation to start and how do they then get the discipline to continue?

Okay, let's talk about that. I disagree with that. I'm not a fan of relying on discipline or willpower because it's a limited resource. So instead, when it comes to motivation, one of the strategies that I love and I use this personally every single week is a strategy called temptation bundling. So what this is all about is that for most people, exercise and people's associations with exercise is something unpleasant. It requires huffing and puffing and discomfort. And what temptation bundling is all about is combining that thing that is unpleasant, which in this case let's talk about exercise, with something that is pleasurable. In my life, I have a hideously expensive exercise bike called Carol, which has these different protocols pre programmed into it, and it's all very complex and very expensive. And I love the bike, but I hate being on the bike. The problem is I needed to drive motivation in the meantime. One of the things that I get a lot of pleasure from, and I will lose any kind of credibility when I reveal this, is that I love watching the US Bachelor. It has to be the US version of the Bachelor because maximum bitchiness, right, And if I sit on the couch watching the Bachelor, I feel disgusting about myself. I feel so guilty. I'm like, what am I doing? It's so anti feminists and everything I stand for.

Okay, let's talk about that. I disagree with that. I'm not a fan of relying on discipline or willpower because it's a limited resource. So instead, when it comes to motivation, one of the strategies that I love and I use this personally every single week is a strategy called temptation bundling. So what this is all about is that for most people, exercise and people's associations with exercise is something unpleasant. It requires huffing and puffing and discomfort. And what temptation bundling is all about is combining that thing that is unpleasant, which in this case let's talk about exercise, with something that is pleasurable. In my life, I have a hideously expensive exercise bike called Carol, which has these different protocols pre programmed into it, and it's all very complex and very expensive. And I love the bike, but I hate being on the bike. The problem is I needed to drive motivation in the meantime. One of the things that I get a lot of pleasure from, and I will lose any kind of credibility when I reveal this, is that I love watching the US Bachelor. It has to be the US version of the Bachelor because maximum bitchiness, right, And if I sit on the couch watching the Bachelor, I feel disgusting about myself. I feel so guilty. I'm like, what am I doing? It's so anti feminists and everything I stand for.

It is someone else's chaos and drama in another country. It is not your chaos and drama. So therefore it can be interesting and you know it's fake, it's TV, Like I.

It is someone else's chaos and drama in another country. It is not your chaos and drama. So therefore it can be interesting and you know it's fake, it's TV, Like I.

Get it all right, Okay. So here's how temptation bundling works. It combines those two activities. What I do now to get myself on the bike and feeling motivated is that I have a rule. I can only watch the Bachelor if I'm on the exercise bike. So I set up my iPad on the bike and I watch The Bachelor as I ride. It's a great distraction from the pain of being on the bike and doing all out sprints. It makes ultimately this thing that was unpleasurable very pleasurable. Turns the Bachelor from a guilty pleasure into just a pleasure, and it makes it really enjoyable to get on the bike.

Get it all right, Okay. So here's how temptation bundling works. It combines those two activities. What I do now to get myself on the bike and feeling motivated is that I have a rule. I can only watch the Bachelor if I'm on the exercise bike. So I set up my iPad on the bike and I watch The Bachelor as I ride. It's a great distraction from the pain of being on the bike and doing all out sprints. It makes ultimately this thing that was unpleasurable very pleasurable. Turns the Bachelor from a guilty pleasure into just a pleasure, and it makes it really enjoyable to get on the bike.

It can literally be anything. Whatever makes you feel good. Pair that with your good habit that you would like to form, because at the end of the day, it is exercise. It is going to make you feel good. The more consistent you are with it, the happier you're going to become. You will be disciplined to do it, will become part of your life, and then you'll start adding in more good things. So the other thing is I think people make things mature by cutting things out. Therefore they feel like they can't do them. I just think there's so many barriers that women create for themselves. What are some of the most common things that you see.

It can literally be anything. Whatever makes you feel good. Pair that with your good habit that you would like to form, because at the end of the day, it is exercise. It is going to make you feel good. The more consistent you are with it, the happier you're going to become. You will be disciplined to do it, will become part of your life, and then you'll start adding in more good things. So the other thing is I think people make things mature by cutting things out. Therefore they feel like they can't do them. I just think there's so many barriers that women create for themselves. What are some of the most common things that you see.

You know, with habits, you're either trying to break a bad habit or adopt a new one. And in the world of women's health and fitness, It often is about, you know, eliminating something or doing less of the bad thing, But how can we think about doing more of the good stuff as well, because sometimes it can be easier to add things rather than subtractings. Writing the health habit and looking at what can we do in terms of our nutrition. There's obvious things that we can not do or cut down on, like in terms of hyperprocessed foods, but then there are so many things that we can think about adding if we're say, trying to improve gut health, like, for example, we can eat our probiotics, we can eat more fermented vegetables than kimchi and yogurt and so forth to feed our guts. So that's about adding something, and often that can be quite a pleasurable habit to add in.

You know, with habits, you're either trying to break a bad habit or adopt a new one. And in the world of women's health and fitness, It often is about, you know, eliminating something or doing less of the bad thing, But how can we think about doing more of the good stuff as well, because sometimes it can be easier to add things rather than subtractings. Writing the health habit and looking at what can we do in terms of our nutrition. There's obvious things that we can not do or cut down on, like in terms of hyperprocessed foods, but then there are so many things that we can think about adding if we're say, trying to improve gut health, like, for example, we can eat our probiotics, we can eat more fermented vegetables than kimchi and yogurt and so forth to feed our guts. So that's about adding something, and often that can be quite a pleasurable habit to add in.

And then maybe it's not about calling things a bad habit. Maybe my phone isn't a bad habit. I just choose to use it at bad times, which creates chaos in my life. So what I could be doing instead is on my treadmill walks in the morning. I could use that time to be on my phone to scroll and get all my sort of social media whatever I want out then place my phone away and then go about my day. Should be calling it a bad habit or should we just be calling it something that we do? Are there bad habits?

And then maybe it's not about calling things a bad habit. Maybe my phone isn't a bad habit. I just choose to use it at bad times, which creates chaos in my life. So what I could be doing instead is on my treadmill walks in the morning. I could use that time to be on my phone to scroll and get all my sort of social media whatever I want out then place my phone away and then go about my day. Should be calling it a bad habit or should we just be calling it something that we do? Are there bad habits?

I think that there are habits that don't serve people. I think bad habit is quite judgmental, but you know, ultimately it's thinking about what are the habits that I can drop or that I can add to my life that are going to help me live the kind of life that I want to live.

I think that there are habits that don't serve people. I think bad habit is quite judgmental, but you know, ultimately it's thinking about what are the habits that I can drop or that I can add to my life that are going to help me live the kind of life that I want to live.

Yeah. Well, you've helped me so much in this Not making things feel like a chore could help you implement so many good habits into your life. This podcast could literally change your life today. Thank you so much for joining me.

Yeah. Well, you've helped me so much in this Not making things feel like a chore could help you implement so many good habits into your life. This podcast could literally change your life today. Thank you so much for joining me.

You are incredible. Ah, my pleasure, my pleasure. I hope you enjoyed this little break from how I work. And if you're keen to listen to more of Kayla's podcast, just search for Sweat Daily wherever you listen to podcasts.

You are incredible. Ah, my pleasure, my pleasure. I hope you enjoyed this little break from how I work. And if you're keen to listen to more of Kayla's podcast, just search for Sweat Daily wherever you listen to podcasts.