Hey boss, I got that new contract. Thanks for that.

Hey boss, I got that new contract. Thanks for that.

No, thank you. You've earned it.

No, thank you. You've earned it.

I just wanted to clarify something with you. I was comparing my contract with a few other people and look it, it seems like the small print is a bit different. Like I realize I negotiated with you and I, they asked for it to be this way and, and I am grateful, but it seems like if we all hit our targets, literally everyone else like all of the men, well they get a bonus? But instead of extra money, I get a mentor.

I just wanted to clarify something with you. I was comparing my contract with a few other people and look it, it seems like the small print is a bit different. Like I realize I negotiated with you and I, they asked for it to be this way and, and I am grateful, but it seems like if we all hit our targets, literally everyone else like all of the men, well they get a bonus? But instead of extra money, I get a mentor.

That's right. You spoke and we listened sweetheart and I have never been prouder. When all those blokes asked for more money, you saw the long game you want a mentor instead. I see a lot of myself in you. And I know the real value for someone like you is in a structured coffee catch-up once a month with an older woman who can tell you just how bad things were when she was your age.

That's right. You spoke and we listened sweetheart and I have never been prouder. When all those blokes asked for more money, you saw the long game you want a mentor instead. I see a lot of myself in you. And I know the real value for someone like you is in a structured coffee catch-up once a month with an older woman who can tell you just how bad things were when she was your age.

But just to be super clear-

But just to be super clear-

Maybe even someone like me reading between the lines.

Maybe even someone like me reading between the lines.

But I would also like a bonus.

But I would also like a bonus.

Great goal, love, love, love, a goal setter. We'll talk about it over coffee.

Great goal, love, love, love, a goal setter. We'll talk about it over coffee.

While a mentor can provide you with useful advice and a great sounding board to tease out workplace issues, being granted a mentor is not the solution to everything. Sometimes workers and it's often women, are offered a mentor instead of a promotion or a bonus. As if having a mentor might magically wallpaper over the gender pay gap.

While a mentor can provide you with useful advice and a great sounding board to tease out workplace issues, being granted a mentor is not the solution to everything. Sometimes workers and it's often women, are offered a mentor instead of a promotion or a bonus. As if having a mentor might magically wallpaper over the gender pay gap.

This is Getting It Right. A podcast by Jobs Bank and I'm Rae Johnston. In season two, we're helping you unearth the untapped job market to attract a more diverse pool of employees across your organization. Doctor Karina Davis is the CEO of Jobs Bank. But before that, Karina spent 20 years in education, she worked as one of the leading educators at University of Melbourne and Melbourne Polytech. Karina. You're in one of the highest positions at Jobs Bank. Have you had experiences of being mentored in the past?

This is Getting It Right. A podcast by Jobs Bank and I'm Rae Johnston. In season two, we're helping you unearth the untapped job market to attract a more diverse pool of employees across your organization. Doctor Karina Davis is the CEO of Jobs Bank. But before that, Karina spent 20 years in education, she worked as one of the leading educators at University of Melbourne and Melbourne Polytech. Karina. You're in one of the highest positions at Jobs Bank. Have you had experiences of being mentored in the past?

Yes. And I just wanna say not in the past, in the very recent present and probably into the future as well. I see that getting support through mentoring in the particular ways that it works for me is a career need.

Yes. And I just wanna say not in the past, in the very recent present and probably into the future as well. I see that getting support through mentoring in the particular ways that it works for me is a career need.

So what specifically have you gained from a mentoring relationship? What has it given you?

So what specifically have you gained from a mentoring relationship? What has it given you?

It's been really essential to understand systems and politics and have them unpacked by a mentor for me even to really structural levels. When I went back to work as a new mum and my boss at the time, helped me find the flexible work policies, helped me by role modeling, how I might be challenged in the work that I need to do as a mother and a worker. And we role modeled what my response would be alongside the lines of the organisation's policies. And it helped me build confidence in standing my ground and speaking for what my right was.

It's been really essential to understand systems and politics and have them unpacked by a mentor for me even to really structural levels. When I went back to work as a new mum and my boss at the time, helped me find the flexible work policies, helped me by role modeling, how I might be challenged in the work that I need to do as a mother and a worker. And we role modeled what my response would be alongside the lines of the organisation's policies. And it helped me build confidence in standing my ground and speaking for what my right was.

I've got an informal group of mentors myself, a bit of a peer mentoring situation, but I've never been able to receive mentoring myself. And I'm wondering how does that relationship actually work in practicality?

I've got an informal group of mentors myself, a bit of a peer mentoring situation, but I've never been able to receive mentoring myself. And I'm wondering how does that relationship actually work in practicality?

It's been not about a mentoring relationship that is inducting me into the current system and structure. I have to be honest, it's been mentors who have understood that the current systems and structures do harm to people and disadvantage people. They understand that there's a lot to challenge in workplaces that we operate in and that it's ok to do that challenge.

It's been not about a mentoring relationship that is inducting me into the current system and structure. I have to be honest, it's been mentors who have understood that the current systems and structures do harm to people and disadvantage people. They understand that there's a lot to challenge in workplaces that we operate in and that it's ok to do that challenge.

For women in particular when you ask about promotions or why you didn't get a pay rise or how to move up to the next level in an organiation, sometimes the answer to that is that you need a mentor. s a mentor always the solution to the issue of women getting promoted?

For women in particular when you ask about promotions or why you didn't get a pay rise or how to move up to the next level in an organiation, sometimes the answer to that is that you need a mentor. s a mentor always the solution to the issue of women getting promoted?

This is a really complex issue because women are discriminated against. That can be an uncomfortable statement for lots of people to hear. But there is research after research after research findings, evidence findings to say that in the workplace, women are discriminated against for all sorts of reasons. If we have a look at a woman needing mentoring because she's not promoted, and that's because we see that the fault rests in that one individual woman, then we've got a broader problem. In terms of mentoring and women, the people often that need some mentoring, not the only ones are the people that are the ones that can create and or maintain the barriers and constraints that women face. And so people in recruitment and inHR and line managers of people need mentoring, to understand how those constraints and barriers impact on and discriminate against women. And not just women, all sorts of people get discriminated against in the workplace. So there's a mentoring requirement there and it's not about the women, it's about the system. And so mentorship for women that helps them to see the structural barriers that are faced and how they can step into and take greater agency in the direction of their lives is also necessary. But as long as it's not as an individual woman at fault, conversation.

This is a really complex issue because women are discriminated against. That can be an uncomfortable statement for lots of people to hear. But there is research after research after research findings, evidence findings to say that in the workplace, women are discriminated against for all sorts of reasons. If we have a look at a woman needing mentoring because she's not promoted, and that's because we see that the fault rests in that one individual woman, then we've got a broader problem. In terms of mentoring and women, the people often that need some mentoring, not the only ones are the people that are the ones that can create and or maintain the barriers and constraints that women face. And so people in recruitment and inHR and line managers of people need mentoring, to understand how those constraints and barriers impact on and discriminate against women. And not just women, all sorts of people get discriminated against in the workplace. So there's a mentoring requirement there and it's not about the women, it's about the system. And so mentorship for women that helps them to see the structural barriers that are faced and how they can step into and take greater agency in the direction of their lives is also necessary. But as long as it's not as an individual woman at fault, conversation.

So is there hard evidence that mentoring works? Does it further your career?

So is there hard evidence that mentoring works? Does it further your career?

My question is who is mentoring working for? And so you know what women are still underpaid and not promoted in the leadership funnel. Women are absent, not completely but not at the, you know, they, they don't have parity in terms of the roles that they hold. Women of color, people of color are still facing discrimination in the workplace at amazing and unfortunate statistical rates. LGBTQI+ people and communities are facing discrimination in the workplace and broader discrimination more socially. People from the trans community are exceptionally discriminated against, people with diverse abilities are facing employment barriers that they shouldn't have to face. So if we have a look at all of that, and we think that mentoring is gonna solve that problem or it already has solved that problem, then we haven't solved that problem. We're structured in narrow ways in workplaces and we really celebrate what we see as masculine leadership qualities. So if you have a look at the number of people where the discrimination rates in employment continue to be present, and if we have a look at what our employment structures are like, then I need to come back and ask who is mentoring for.

My question is who is mentoring working for? And so you know what women are still underpaid and not promoted in the leadership funnel. Women are absent, not completely but not at the, you know, they, they don't have parity in terms of the roles that they hold. Women of color, people of color are still facing discrimination in the workplace at amazing and unfortunate statistical rates. LGBTQI+ people and communities are facing discrimination in the workplace and broader discrimination more socially. People from the trans community are exceptionally discriminated against, people with diverse abilities are facing employment barriers that they shouldn't have to face. So if we have a look at all of that, and we think that mentoring is gonna solve that problem or it already has solved that problem, then we haven't solved that problem. We're structured in narrow ways in workplaces and we really celebrate what we see as masculine leadership qualities. So if you have a look at the number of people where the discrimination rates in employment continue to be present, and if we have a look at what our employment structures are like, then I need to come back and ask who is mentoring for.

So how can HR departments then formalise some sort of mentoring relationship process that does work? What structures do they need to be putting into place to make a program beneficial for all parties and the organization?

So how can HR departments then formalise some sort of mentoring relationship process that does work? What structures do they need to be putting into place to make a program beneficial for all parties and the organization?

We could have a look at the leadership funnel, what are the characteristics, the diverse characteristics of the people in the entry level jobs in our organization and as it funnels up to leadership, who drops off and how do we go to the people that aren't being represented and ask them what are the barriers and constraints you're facing? And how do you experience that in this organization? And then who do we need to talk to, to ensure that those barriers and constraints are removed? We can match people with experience of challenges. I know when I went back to work as a mother of young Children, it would have been really great if the workplace had kind of matched me with a mentoring peer circle of women who are returning to work and struggling to understand what that looks like and struggling to share strategies of how you manage that. That would have been fantastic. So having a look at people and what they're bringing to work and the challenges or the shifts that they're making and grouping them with like people across the career spectrum and so that they can share strategies and understandings that might be a really great mentoring approach that HR professionals could think about.

We could have a look at the leadership funnel, what are the characteristics, the diverse characteristics of the people in the entry level jobs in our organization and as it funnels up to leadership, who drops off and how do we go to the people that aren't being represented and ask them what are the barriers and constraints you're facing? And how do you experience that in this organization? And then who do we need to talk to, to ensure that those barriers and constraints are removed? We can match people with experience of challenges. I know when I went back to work as a mother of young Children, it would have been really great if the workplace had kind of matched me with a mentoring peer circle of women who are returning to work and struggling to understand what that looks like and struggling to share strategies of how you manage that. That would have been fantastic. So having a look at people and what they're bringing to work and the challenges or the shifts that they're making and grouping them with like people across the career spectrum and so that they can share strategies and understandings that might be a really great mentoring approach that HR professionals could think about.

What other types of mentoring are useful in, you know, squaring up the ledger so to say a little bit. I've, I've heard of something called reverse mentoring. What is that?

What other types of mentoring are useful in, you know, squaring up the ledger so to say a little bit. I've, I've heard of something called reverse mentoring. What is that?

You actually get someone who's had less experience in organisation and pair them up with someone who's had a long experience or a long career experience so that they can both learn. Not just it's the wise older person, often the wise older man telling someone what they should be doing, but actually, so that there's a learning for both people there. We really need to see mentoring as opening up to diversity that we have all got particular experiences and perspectives that have built across our lives. And that doesn't ever give us the full picture. And so we need to understand even when we're actively searching that a barrier for me is not a barrier for somebody else. And I can't always see what the barriers are for someone else. And so looking at mentoring as opening up our eyes to diversity and structural blocks and barriers is really, really important.

You actually get someone who's had less experience in organisation and pair them up with someone who's had a long experience or a long career experience so that they can both learn. Not just it's the wise older person, often the wise older man telling someone what they should be doing, but actually, so that there's a learning for both people there. We really need to see mentoring as opening up to diversity that we have all got particular experiences and perspectives that have built across our lives. And that doesn't ever give us the full picture. And so we need to understand even when we're actively searching that a barrier for me is not a barrier for somebody else. And I can't always see what the barriers are for someone else. And so looking at mentoring as opening up our eyes to diversity and structural blocks and barriers is really, really important.

Doctor Karina Davis CEO of Jobs Bank in Victoria. There's plenty more information, helpful tips and resources to help you with inclusive hiring and procurement on the Jobs Bank Resource Centre at jobsbank.org.au.

Doctor Karina Davis CEO of Jobs Bank in Victoria. There's plenty more information, helpful tips and resources to help you with inclusive hiring and procurement on the Jobs Bank Resource Centre at jobsbank.org.au.

Getting It Right is a podcast from Jobs Bank and is produced by Dead Set studios and hosted by me, Rae Johnston. You can follow the podcast in the podcast app of your choice. That way you don't miss an episode. This episode was recorded on the unceded lands of the sovereign Darug, Gandangara and Wiradjuri peoples and the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin nation. It was produced and edited on Turrbal and Jagera land and we wish to pay our deepest respects to their elders past and present. And we ask that you too acknowledge the Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander lands that you're listening from.

Getting It Right is a podcast from Jobs Bank and is produced by Dead Set studios and hosted by me, Rae Johnston. You can follow the podcast in the podcast app of your choice. That way you don't miss an episode. This episode was recorded on the unceded lands of the sovereign Darug, Gandangara and Wiradjuri peoples and the Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin nation. It was produced and edited on Turrbal and Jagera land and we wish to pay our deepest respects to their elders past and present. And we ask that you too acknowledge the Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander lands that you're listening from.