Yeah, mum. No, she didn't tell me about that. Eh? So you're gonna be alright to get there? Ok. So I can grab Uncle Jimmy on the way home and give Aunty Beryl the money then. Yeah. Alright. Is everything gonna be alright though?

Yeah, mum. No, she didn't tell me about that. Eh? So you're gonna be alright to get there? Ok. So I can grab Uncle Jimmy on the way home and give Aunty Beryl the money then. Yeah. Alright. Is everything gonna be alright though?

Oh hi Ray look I just wanted to touch base ahead of the top brass from HQ popping in this arvo. Are you the head of the curve on that systematic cadence piece?

Oh hi Ray look I just wanted to touch base ahead of the top brass from HQ popping in this arvo. Are you the head of the curve on that systematic cadence piece?

Firmly on my radar. I'm just finalizing the ballpark figures now.

Firmly on my radar. I'm just finalizing the ballpark figures now.

Mhm. Because in an ideal world going forward, I'd really love to drill down and get quite granular, you know,

Mhm. Because in an ideal world going forward, I'd really love to drill down and get quite granular, you know,

mm 100%. So if they throw us a curveball, we can decomplexify.

mm 100%. So if they throw us a curveball, we can decomplexify.

ecause they'll be playing hard ball on that bottom line.

ecause they'll be playing hard ball on that bottom line.

Well, if they ask us to take a deep dive or shift the goal posts for some blue sky projections, we'll be able to level the playing field and give them the 411 on our velocity. We're on the same page babe.

Well, if they ask us to take a deep dive or shift the goal posts for some blue sky projections, we'll be able to level the playing field and give them the 411 on our velocity. We're on the same page babe.

Absolute game changer. I'll circle back later. Bye!

Absolute game changer. I'll circle back later. Bye!

Bye.

Bye.

Sorry about that mum.

Sorry about that mum.

It may seem as simple as dropping a few buzzwords. In a meeting, throwing finger guns around with your colleagues or dressing a certain way. But for some people, it means changing or hiding a part of themselves to fit into a mainly anglo corporate world. It's called code switching. And it can be exhausting. If we want to bring more diverse people into the workplace, they need to be able to bring their whole self genuinely.

It may seem as simple as dropping a few buzzwords. In a meeting, throwing finger guns around with your colleagues or dressing a certain way. But for some people, it means changing or hiding a part of themselves to fit into a mainly anglo corporate world. It's called code switching. And it can be exhausting. If we want to bring more diverse people into the workplace, they need to be able to bring their whole self genuinely.

I'm Rae Johnston and this is Getting It Right. A podcast from Jobsbank that helps you the employer tap into the labour market by designing a more inclusive hiring process. It's about casting the net wider so you can unearth the job seekers you need to further your business needs. We're going to unpack the concept of code switching and how to make sure your employees don't feel like they need to be a different person at work.

I'm Rae Johnston and this is Getting It Right. A podcast from Jobsbank that helps you the employer tap into the labour market by designing a more inclusive hiring process. It's about casting the net wider so you can unearth the job seekers you need to further your business needs. We're going to unpack the concept of code switching and how to make sure your employees don't feel like they need to be a different person at work.

Dwayne Good is the founder of 100% Aboriginal owned and operated corporate travel group In Travel. Dwayne, when we talk code switching. What does that mean?

Dwayne Good is the founder of 100% Aboriginal owned and operated corporate travel group In Travel. Dwayne, when we talk code switching. What does that mean?

I guess it's playing in different worlds, being from a a diverse cultural background, but also choosing to work in a big scary corporate world having done so for the last sort of 15 years and being an Aboriginal man, I, yeah, I definitely need to be conscious of where I'm working.

I guess it's playing in different worlds, being from a a diverse cultural background, but also choosing to work in a big scary corporate world having done so for the last sort of 15 years and being an Aboriginal man, I, yeah, I definitely need to be conscious of where I'm working.

So when we're code switching, what are we changing about ourselves?

So when we're code switching, what are we changing about ourselves?

Me as an Aboriginal person working in these big places, I had to essentially code switch and conform into their sort of way of doing things and, and speaking how they do and behaving how they do and conforming to their, their way of life.

Me as an Aboriginal person working in these big places, I had to essentially code switch and conform into their sort of way of doing things and, and speaking how they do and behaving how they do and conforming to their, their way of life.

So, before you worked in Indigenous-run travel, which must feel like a totally different world, you worked with, as you said, a few of these big larger corporations. But how did you perform to get along? You did mention that you changed, you know, the way that you talked. What else did you do?

So, before you worked in Indigenous-run travel, which must feel like a totally different world, you worked with, as you said, a few of these big larger corporations. But how did you perform to get along? You did mention that you changed, you know, the way that you talked. What else did you do?

Yeah, you definitely learn. And we're talking maybe when things weren't as diverse and inclusive than they are now, you would just keep your head down and try and stay out of trouble and try and limit conflict in the workplace. Back in the day, uh there would always be, you know, there might be someone with a negative attitude towards Aboriginal people and they might say something racist. It might be a joke sitting at the, you know, the lunch table or something like that. And I wasn't very good at biting my tongue and, and just letting it slide, I would, I would always say something. And so, so, yeah, that's not cool and, and make my opinions known and let that person know where I'm from. However, I did need to be incredibly professional about that and I had to act in a manner that wouldn't get me in any trouble.

Yeah, you definitely learn. And we're talking maybe when things weren't as diverse and inclusive than they are now, you would just keep your head down and try and stay out of trouble and try and limit conflict in the workplace. Back in the day, uh there would always be, you know, there might be someone with a negative attitude towards Aboriginal people and they might say something racist. It might be a joke sitting at the, you know, the lunch table or something like that. And I wasn't very good at biting my tongue and, and just letting it slide, I would, I would always say something. And so, so, yeah, that's not cool and, and make my opinions known and let that person know where I'm from. However, I did need to be incredibly professional about that and I had to act in a manner that wouldn't get me in any trouble.

Did you feel like you had somewhere to go? Or someone to talk to about that when it happened?

Did you feel like you had somewhere to go? Or someone to talk to about that when it happened?

Definitely not. Yeah, definitely not back in that period for sure. And it was very isolating and it became an awkward situation again from that, you know, that comment onwards and it was up to me to stay out of trouble and toe the line and just pretend it didn't happen.

Definitely not. Yeah, definitely not back in that period for sure. And it was very isolating and it became an awkward situation again from that, you know, that comment onwards and it was up to me to stay out of trouble and toe the line and just pretend it didn't happen.

So when companies are saying things like we want you to bring your whole self to work, you know, we've all heard that in those big corporate environments. Does that work in practicality,

So when companies are saying things like we want you to bring your whole self to work, you know, we've all heard that in those big corporate environments. Does that work in practicality,

Your whole self, but just anything that's different to mainstream society leave that at home.

Your whole self, but just anything that's different to mainstream society leave that at home.

Your whole self except the bits we don't really want to know about.

Your whole self except the bits we don't really want to know about.

Yeah, the stuff that we're not really into and scares us. Yeah, we're sort of not comfortable with that. So we don't want to talk about anything uncomfortable. Let's just let's keep it tidy Dwayne. So there were some situations where I didn't know of any Indigenous people in the company. And so you really are on your own. And so you really are obliged to conform and for personalities like me that's, that was challenging

Yeah, the stuff that we're not really into and scares us. Yeah, we're sort of not comfortable with that. So we don't want to talk about anything uncomfortable. Let's just let's keep it tidy Dwayne. So there were some situations where I didn't know of any Indigenous people in the company. And so you really are on your own. And so you really are obliged to conform and for personalities like me that's, that was challenging

Or if you are the only one and that's made obvious to a bunch of people and they find out, you become Aboriginal Google for the whole company on any kind of Indigenous issues. Right.

Or if you are the only one and that's made obvious to a bunch of people and they find out, you become Aboriginal Google for the whole company on any kind of Indigenous issues. Right.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah.

For some of us, you know, code switching happens because of our indigeneity or you know, for others, it's because of our gender, like women that work in male dominated mining sites, for instance, or it could be about sexuality. You know, there's some people in more traditional work environments that are still made to feel like they have to hide the fact that they are gay. So what's your advice as an employer on how other companies can make sure that staff don't have to adapt to fit in.

For some of us, you know, code switching happens because of our indigeneity or you know, for others, it's because of our gender, like women that work in male dominated mining sites, for instance, or it could be about sexuality. You know, there's some people in more traditional work environments that are still made to feel like they have to hide the fact that they are gay. So what's your advice as an employer on how other companies can make sure that staff don't have to adapt to fit in.

When I think of a feeling when I felt uncomfortable back in the day, I felt like there was no procedures, no process, no policy, no culture values that supported a diverse person or someone from a different, different walk of life. And so now companies, if they want to get that right now, they're certainly talking about it. It is about actually doing it. And so actually having a diverse workforce, actually having people from different backgrounds, walking around and you know, being visible. My fundamental belief is it has to actually start from the top. So top down approach from the board level, if you're serious about diversity, how is that flowing through genuinely? It should, then the diversity and inclusion, actual processes and hiring decisions will start to trickle down. Then people like myself or other backgrounds will walk in and go. Oh, this is great. I feel, I feel like I belong.

When I think of a feeling when I felt uncomfortable back in the day, I felt like there was no procedures, no process, no policy, no culture values that supported a diverse person or someone from a different, different walk of life. And so now companies, if they want to get that right now, they're certainly talking about it. It is about actually doing it. And so actually having a diverse workforce, actually having people from different backgrounds, walking around and you know, being visible. My fundamental belief is it has to actually start from the top. So top down approach from the board level, if you're serious about diversity, how is that flowing through genuinely? It should, then the diversity and inclusion, actual processes and hiring decisions will start to trickle down. Then people like myself or other backgrounds will walk in and go. Oh, this is great. I feel, I feel like I belong.

Yeah, you feel more comfortable, you feel like it is a place that's set up for you to come into

Yeah, you feel more comfortable, you feel like it is a place that's set up for you to come into

To a degree, it takes away the awkwardness of it. It's just business as usual. We, you know, we don't have to talk about it. It's just it, we live and breathe it.

To a degree, it takes away the awkwardness of it. It's just business as usual. We, you know, we don't have to talk about it. It's just it, we live and breathe it.

We don't have to try too hard. There doesn't have to be a checklist on the wall, we just are , you know? So how have you set up that environment at, In Travel?

We don't have to try too hard. There doesn't have to be a checklist on the wall, we just are , you know? So how have you set up that environment at, In Travel?

So, at the heartbeat as a small business, which we were, when we opened, we're almost nine years old now getting to become a bigger business. So better resources now. But back in the day because I'm a blackfella , I our purpose was to hire other blackfellas . So that was our DNA, our foundation, that is our value system. So we would never, you know, we would, we would never say no to anyone from any particular background because how hypocritical would that be? So that is our DNA and we do have people from diverse backgrounds that work in our business. We've got a long way to go. We wanna keep growing and we wanna open up our business for anyone from any background to come and work for us. That is just who we are. I don't need to write a policy about it because it's just, it's just how it is.

So, at the heartbeat as a small business, which we were, when we opened, we're almost nine years old now getting to become a bigger business. So better resources now. But back in the day because I'm a blackfella , I our purpose was to hire other blackfellas . So that was our DNA, our foundation, that is our value system. So we would never, you know, we would, we would never say no to anyone from any particular background because how hypocritical would that be? So that is our DNA and we do have people from diverse backgrounds that work in our business. We've got a long way to go. We wanna keep growing and we wanna open up our business for anyone from any background to come and work for us. That is just who we are. I don't need to write a policy about it because it's just, it's just how it is.

So when you're creating policies and procedures around code switching, what should you be mindful of? I

So when you're creating policies and procedures around code switching, what should you be mindful of? I

I think one of the fundamentals and I know this from my First Nations lens is that if whitefellas don't know what's going on in Blackfellas' world, how can they help? And so it's about that understanding and if you're a HR manager and you're writing policies and procedures about making sure the workplace is, is right for everyone, then you need to go and understand and immerse yourself in these diverse and inclusive backgrounds to really understand what they're going through. So if you don't know about any of that, then go and find out, go and talk to these communities.

I think one of the fundamentals and I know this from my First Nations lens is that if whitefellas don't know what's going on in Blackfellas' world, how can they help? And so it's about that understanding and if you're a HR manager and you're writing policies and procedures about making sure the workplace is, is right for everyone, then you need to go and understand and immerse yourself in these diverse and inclusive backgrounds to really understand what they're going through. So if you don't know about any of that, then go and find out, go and talk to these communities.

It's all about communication too, isn't it? You know, talk to the people who you're wanting to bring into the organization and ask them what their needs are, make them feel comfortable talking to you about it.

It's all about communication too, isn't it? You know, talk to the people who you're wanting to bring into the organization and ask them what their needs are, make them feel comfortable talking to you about it.

Absolutely. And just asking the question. I think like the fundamental value is around respect. If your business is missing that fundamental value or principle, then you're never gonna get any of this done. If you don't respect people from all walks of life, then how can you make the environment look really nice or feel good for a black fella to walk into? So, yeah, if you respect, it could be a culture that's written on a wall, or a statement that's written on a wall. But if you don't actually do that on the ground level, if your people, your executives, then you, you really, you're not gonna get there.

Absolutely. And just asking the question. I think like the fundamental value is around respect. If your business is missing that fundamental value or principle, then you're never gonna get any of this done. If you don't respect people from all walks of life, then how can you make the environment look really nice or feel good for a black fella to walk into? So, yeah, if you respect, it could be a culture that's written on a wall, or a statement that's written on a wall. But if you don't actually do that on the ground level, if your people, your executives, then you, you really, you're not gonna get there.

I'm noticing a lot of things that workplaces are doing to make the physical space more welcoming and comfortable for people from diverse backgrounds. You know, even things as simple as having, you know, a gender neutral bathroom or making sure it's accessible to people with disabilities. But what can workplaces do from a First Nations perspective?

I'm noticing a lot of things that workplaces are doing to make the physical space more welcoming and comfortable for people from diverse backgrounds. You know, even things as simple as having, you know, a gender neutral bathroom or making sure it's accessible to people with disabilities. But what can workplaces do from a First Nations perspective?

It's really comforting seeing that maybe one of their boardrooms is named after an important place that's a really important place for First Nations people. You know, that's one great example or acknowledgements on, you know, remote calls, etcetera. You know, if HR again is trying to look to redesign environments, maybe like I said before going out and talking to diverse backgrounds and, and learning what, what, what's important to them or what would make them feel more comfortable in the workplace.

It's really comforting seeing that maybe one of their boardrooms is named after an important place that's a really important place for First Nations people. You know, that's one great example or acknowledgements on, you know, remote calls, etcetera. You know, if HR again is trying to look to redesign environments, maybe like I said before going out and talking to diverse backgrounds and, and learning what, what, what's important to them or what would make them feel more comfortable in the workplace.

And invest in some local art, find out who your local artists are and show the stories of that place in your building of the country that you're sitting on every day.

And invest in some local art, find out who your local artists are and show the stories of that place in your building of the country that you're sitting on every day.

Dwayne Good, the founder of In Travel Group. Don't forget there's more resources to help you with inclusive hiring and procurement on the Jobs Bank resource centre at jobsbank.org.au . There's plenty of practical tips there, whether you're a government department, a multinational corporation, a small business or a not for profit. For more episodes that help you with hiring, follow Getting It Right in the podcast app of your choice. Getting It Right is a podcast from Jobs Bank and is produced by Deadset Studios and I'm Rae Johnston. This episode was recorded on the unceded lands of the sovereign Gadigal and Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin nation. It's been produced and edited on the lands of the Turrbal and Jagera people. And we wish to pay our deepest respects to their elders past and present. And we ask that you too acknowledge the Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander lands that you're listening from.

Dwayne Good, the founder of In Travel Group. Don't forget there's more resources to help you with inclusive hiring and procurement on the Jobs Bank resource centre at jobsbank.org.au . There's plenty of practical tips there, whether you're a government department, a multinational corporation, a small business or a not for profit. For more episodes that help you with hiring, follow Getting It Right in the podcast app of your choice. Getting It Right is a podcast from Jobs Bank and is produced by Deadset Studios and I'm Rae Johnston. This episode was recorded on the unceded lands of the sovereign Gadigal and Wurundjeri Woi Wurrung people of the Kulin nation. It's been produced and edited on the lands of the Turrbal and Jagera people. And we wish to pay our deepest respects to their elders past and present. And we ask that you too acknowledge the Aboriginal or Torres Strait Islander lands that you're listening from.