I wrote a book a few years ago called Misconnection, Why your teenage daughter hates You, expects the world and needs to talk. When I surveyed and interviewed around four hundred Australian teenage girls, the overwhelming thing they wanted parents to know was I just need you to listen to me. Today's podcast is about what we're doing wrong and how to get listening right. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson. It's real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. And for your weekend listening pleasure, I have an author, facilitator, speaker NLP. That's Neurolinguistic Programming coach, a man who has worked as a successful business consultant, leadership coach, a master's degree in communication management. His name is Ross Judd. His book is called Listening, a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. So good to have you on the podcast today, Ross, Thank you for taking the time out. Here's my first question for you, why listen? Why listen? Like as parents, as adults, when we're talking to people, we demand it, our kids need it. Why listen?

I wrote a book a few years ago called Misconnection, Why your teenage daughter hates You, expects the world and needs to talk. When I surveyed and interviewed around four hundred Australian teenage girls, the overwhelming thing they wanted parents to know was I just need you to listen to me. Today's podcast is about what we're doing wrong and how to get listening right. Hello and welcome to the Happy Families Podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson. It's real Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. And for your weekend listening pleasure, I have an author, facilitator, speaker NLP. That's Neurolinguistic Programming coach, a man who has worked as a successful business consultant, leadership coach, a master's degree in communication management. His name is Ross Judd. His book is called Listening, a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. So good to have you on the podcast today, Ross, Thank you for taking the time out. Here's my first question for you, why listen? Why listen? Like as parents, as adults, when we're talking to people, we demand it, our kids need it. Why listen?

The short answer is because it's the only way to communicate to that person that you understand, and it's the only way to connect with them at a deep and genuine level. There's a quote that I use a lot that I got from Stephen Covey that talks about understanding how much we crave understanding. It's the deepest hunger of the human heart. And so that ability if we can learn to listen effectively, and part of that skill needs to be rephrasing what that person said. I call it summarizing. If we learn to summarize what that person has said, we'll then demonstrate to that person that we've understood and there's nothing they crave more.

The short answer is because it's the only way to communicate to that person that you understand, and it's the only way to connect with them at a deep and genuine level. There's a quote that I use a lot that I got from Stephen Covey that talks about understanding how much we crave understanding. It's the deepest hunger of the human heart. And so that ability if we can learn to listen effectively, and part of that skill needs to be rephrasing what that person said. I call it summarizing. If we learn to summarize what that person has said, we'll then demonstrate to that person that we've understood and there's nothing they crave more.

So what you're saying, I see what I did there. There's the Submary right away. I feel like I'm on fire already. So what you're saying is that when people feel I'm Stephen Covey. I think it was him that said the greatest human need is to be.

So what you're saying, I see what I did there. There's the Submary right away. I feel like I'm on fire already. So what you're saying is that when people feel I'm Stephen Covey. I think it was him that said the greatest human need is to be.

Understood something like that.

Understood something like that.

Said, Yeah, And what you're really saying is when we give somebody the honor of being heard, they know that they matter to us and their life is important, and that we get where they're coming.

Said, Yeah, And what you're really saying is when we give somebody the honor of being heard, they know that they matter to us and their life is important, and that we get where they're coming.

From exactly, and we're acknowledging them.

From exactly, and we're acknowledging them.

Walk me through this in a really concrete way. When have you listened and seen it make a difference.

Walk me through this in a really concrete way. When have you listened and seen it make a difference.

There's a great example I use with my daughter. So one of the things I talk about is that this is a specific context. So the depth of listening we're talking about is not something you're going to do every day, day to day. It's too much. So you will need to look for the signs for is this a little bit different? Is there a need here that I can satisfy. And I had a situation like that with my daughter where she started hanging around in the door out of my office, and that was unusual behavior, and that's important to notice. She normally just wanted to be and she was about ten years old at the time. So I got out of my chair sat on the floor because I didn't want to be at my desk, and she did the same. She came and sat opposite me, and we looked at each other, and I was determined not to make any of our normal mistakes, which is to take over the conversation and start talking. So I just waited and she eventually started talking. And my objective is to let her talk and get to the point where I can summarize, and the rule I have is trying not to change the direction of this conversation. So I just encouraged her with phrasers like now, tell me more, Okay, what else, whatever, something along those lines, and she eventually started talking about kids at school that, in her words, were being mean to her, and my brain went nuts. You know, I had all sorts of things in my head about bullying, about stuff that had happened to me when I was at school, all kinds of stuff. But I stayed with her. Now I'll cut this story short. That took a while, and I summarized what she was saying, and she eventually got to a point where she asked for some suggestions with that issue. So I gave her a couple of suggestions. Have you thought about making other friends? Do you think you should talk to the teachers? Have you confronted them about what they're doing? And she'd done all those things, so this was all under control. She ten year old. She was on top of it, and it was a wonderful experience for me to realize just who she was, how thoughtful, how well she was managing that situation. In those suggestions, I've kind of ran out of ideas, and she was still asking for suggestions, and I'm kind of looking at her and I thought, okay, well I've run out of ideas, and so what I do in that situation is I defer to somebody who's smarter than me. So let's ask your mum what she thinks. And that got a really bad reaction. No no, no, no no, Please don't tell mom, Please don't tell mum about this. So that was another trigger. This time, the trigger was emotion that Okay, there's something serious going on here, and it helped me realize that that opening conversation about school that she had under control wasn't the thing that had caused her to hang around my doorway. It was now this conversation. So, to keep this story short, what happened out of that? That took a while. This was slower, she was harder to draw comments out of. Eventually she opened up that she didn't appreciate some of the playful teasing. So some of her mother's playful teasing was having an adverse effect, and she just didn't feel like she could talk to her without her mother trivializing it or you know, just teasing her or doing something like that, and of course I knew that was wrong. She absolutely could talk to her mother, but I couldn't say that, didn't want to disagree, didn't want to take it off course. Eventually she got to a point where she asked me what I thought she should do about that situation, and we worked through a process where events the eye went and shared the feedback with her mum. Her mum was in the bedroom down the hall, and as I got there, Emily had followed me down the passageway, and anyway, they ended up reuniting, and it was a wonderful connection that was reborn between the two of them, and it lasts this day and their thickest theason. The daughter I'm talking about is now in the mid twenties, so this is a a while ago this story occurred. But a couple of points to take out of that story and their points that I'm trying to emphasize in this book. First is that when somebody needs to talk, needs to be heard, needs to be understood, they will give you some kind of clue. So in this case, it was unusual behavior. It might be emotion, it might be something else that you're not doing this with strangers. You're doing this with people that you know, and you'll be able to tell, so you'll be able to tell that this is a bit different. Then one of the rules is in this situation, they never tell you the real issue. So if you take the conversation, of course, you'll get basically, if you dive into that first issue, do all of our classic mistakes, you're going to miss that deeper issue that they are desperate to talk to you about. And so this idea of listening in a deep and meaningful way in those moments. We're not doing this all the time. We'll do this whenever we see the opportunity, which might only be once or twice a year. It might just be once once a month. If it happened once a month, it would be happening a lot in my experience. So, yeah, the point of that story is then when you get to that deeper issue, you create a connection that's just wonderful, absolutely wonderful.

There's a great example I use with my daughter. So one of the things I talk about is that this is a specific context. So the depth of listening we're talking about is not something you're going to do every day, day to day. It's too much. So you will need to look for the signs for is this a little bit different? Is there a need here that I can satisfy. And I had a situation like that with my daughter where she started hanging around in the door out of my office, and that was unusual behavior, and that's important to notice. She normally just wanted to be and she was about ten years old at the time. So I got out of my chair sat on the floor because I didn't want to be at my desk, and she did the same. She came and sat opposite me, and we looked at each other, and I was determined not to make any of our normal mistakes, which is to take over the conversation and start talking. So I just waited and she eventually started talking. And my objective is to let her talk and get to the point where I can summarize, and the rule I have is trying not to change the direction of this conversation. So I just encouraged her with phrasers like now, tell me more, Okay, what else, whatever, something along those lines, and she eventually started talking about kids at school that, in her words, were being mean to her, and my brain went nuts. You know, I had all sorts of things in my head about bullying, about stuff that had happened to me when I was at school, all kinds of stuff. But I stayed with her. Now I'll cut this story short. That took a while, and I summarized what she was saying, and she eventually got to a point where she asked for some suggestions with that issue. So I gave her a couple of suggestions. Have you thought about making other friends? Do you think you should talk to the teachers? Have you confronted them about what they're doing? And she'd done all those things, so this was all under control. She ten year old. She was on top of it, and it was a wonderful experience for me to realize just who she was, how thoughtful, how well she was managing that situation. In those suggestions, I've kind of ran out of ideas, and she was still asking for suggestions, and I'm kind of looking at her and I thought, okay, well I've run out of ideas, and so what I do in that situation is I defer to somebody who's smarter than me. So let's ask your mum what she thinks. And that got a really bad reaction. No no, no, no no, Please don't tell mom, Please don't tell mum about this. So that was another trigger. This time, the trigger was emotion that Okay, there's something serious going on here, and it helped me realize that that opening conversation about school that she had under control wasn't the thing that had caused her to hang around my doorway. It was now this conversation. So, to keep this story short, what happened out of that? That took a while. This was slower, she was harder to draw comments out of. Eventually she opened up that she didn't appreciate some of the playful teasing. So some of her mother's playful teasing was having an adverse effect, and she just didn't feel like she could talk to her without her mother trivializing it or you know, just teasing her or doing something like that, and of course I knew that was wrong. She absolutely could talk to her mother, but I couldn't say that, didn't want to disagree, didn't want to take it off course. Eventually she got to a point where she asked me what I thought she should do about that situation, and we worked through a process where events the eye went and shared the feedback with her mum. Her mum was in the bedroom down the hall, and as I got there, Emily had followed me down the passageway, and anyway, they ended up reuniting, and it was a wonderful connection that was reborn between the two of them, and it lasts this day and their thickest theason. The daughter I'm talking about is now in the mid twenties, so this is a a while ago this story occurred. But a couple of points to take out of that story and their points that I'm trying to emphasize in this book. First is that when somebody needs to talk, needs to be heard, needs to be understood, they will give you some kind of clue. So in this case, it was unusual behavior. It might be emotion, it might be something else that you're not doing this with strangers. You're doing this with people that you know, and you'll be able to tell, so you'll be able to tell that this is a bit different. Then one of the rules is in this situation, they never tell you the real issue. So if you take the conversation, of course, you'll get basically, if you dive into that first issue, do all of our classic mistakes, you're going to miss that deeper issue that they are desperate to talk to you about. And so this idea of listening in a deep and meaningful way in those moments. We're not doing this all the time. We'll do this whenever we see the opportunity, which might only be once or twice a year. It might just be once once a month. If it happened once a month, it would be happening a lot in my experience. So, yeah, the point of that story is then when you get to that deeper issue, you create a connection that's just wonderful, absolutely wonderful.

Okay, here's what I pulled out of that number one. Just wait. Yes, it's so so common that kids will say, my parents aren't really great at listening. They're really great at hearing me say something and then telling me what to do or really great at talking. Something that you said was that you let her guide the conversation. I'm using my words, not yours. There's a phrase that I will use when I'm talking to parents about this, and that is that we should take the ride, not the wheel. She's the one that's steering it. She's the one that's determining where to go. Our jobs to sit in the passenger seat and let them drive, because they will eventually eventually drive us to the destination of their choosing the one that they really need to get to in their own time. And the third thing, actually, there were two other things that I picked up as I was listening to your story Ross. The first is that the answers are inside the kids. We've just she'd already figured out all the answers to the initial issue, but even that second issue. As you worked with her, she became willing to number one, listen to you, but number two figure out for herself what felt right, which did mean going to her mum. But ultimately, this idea that you've come back to a couple of times, often when there's a big thing going on, our children will disguise it, they'll hide it. It might be hidden in behavior. It might be hidden in false stories, it might be hidden in tired or I just want to play on my phone. But there's that underlying issue and I don't Again, I don't quite remember the words you used. But I encourage parents to simply say, Okay, is there anything else you want to chat about? Is there anything else you want to tell me? Because wow, there's always that thing there, but listening to what you said as well. Not everything needs to be emotion coached. One of the things that I see happening with the gentle parenting craze that has swept across families over the last few years is this feeling that every time a child has an emotion, we need to get down and try to unpack and therapeutically address everything that's happening in their lives. And sometimes it's okay as a parent, say come on, let's just go like you don't have to do this all the time.

Okay, here's what I pulled out of that number one. Just wait. Yes, it's so so common that kids will say, my parents aren't really great at listening. They're really great at hearing me say something and then telling me what to do or really great at talking. Something that you said was that you let her guide the conversation. I'm using my words, not yours. There's a phrase that I will use when I'm talking to parents about this, and that is that we should take the ride, not the wheel. She's the one that's steering it. She's the one that's determining where to go. Our jobs to sit in the passenger seat and let them drive, because they will eventually eventually drive us to the destination of their choosing the one that they really need to get to in their own time. And the third thing, actually, there were two other things that I picked up as I was listening to your story Ross. The first is that the answers are inside the kids. We've just she'd already figured out all the answers to the initial issue, but even that second issue. As you worked with her, she became willing to number one, listen to you, but number two figure out for herself what felt right, which did mean going to her mum. But ultimately, this idea that you've come back to a couple of times, often when there's a big thing going on, our children will disguise it, they'll hide it. It might be hidden in behavior. It might be hidden in false stories, it might be hidden in tired or I just want to play on my phone. But there's that underlying issue and I don't Again, I don't quite remember the words you used. But I encourage parents to simply say, Okay, is there anything else you want to chat about? Is there anything else you want to tell me? Because wow, there's always that thing there, but listening to what you said as well. Not everything needs to be emotion coached. One of the things that I see happening with the gentle parenting craze that has swept across families over the last few years is this feeling that every time a child has an emotion, we need to get down and try to unpack and therapeutically address everything that's happening in their lives. And sometimes it's okay as a parent, say come on, let's just go like you don't have to do this all the time.

I totally agree, And it's hard for parents. The you know, when that child is born, they are completely dependent on you, so you are all things to that individual, and then there's a whole process they're going to go through, is they evolve and become their own person, and I think one of the challenges for parents is to be absolutely enthralled by that. Like I would encourage parents to look for that, you know that learn about them, and these conversations are the best way to learn about them. I learned so much in that example about my daughter and just how capable and assured and you know, how wonderful she is. But it's hard because you know, I want to be the you know, we're in control just about every aspect of their life early in their life, and then we're giving up that control. But the idea is we're creating a human being, and we should be absolutely fascinated by that human being because they're just amazing.

I totally agree, And it's hard for parents. The you know, when that child is born, they are completely dependent on you, so you are all things to that individual, and then there's a whole process they're going to go through, is they evolve and become their own person, and I think one of the challenges for parents is to be absolutely enthralled by that. Like I would encourage parents to look for that, you know that learn about them, and these conversations are the best way to learn about them. I learned so much in that example about my daughter and just how capable and assured and you know, how wonderful she is. But it's hard because you know, I want to be the you know, we're in control just about every aspect of their life early in their life, and then we're giving up that control. But the idea is we're creating a human being, and we should be absolutely fascinated by that human being because they're just amazing.

His name is Ross Judd. His book is called Listening, a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. Let's talk about the biggest mistakes parents make when it comes to listening. We've already sort of addressed several of them, and you just raised another one as you talk talked about control. But if you were to put together your list of the top five things to stop doing when you're supposed to be listening, what would you.

His name is Ross Judd. His book is called Listening, a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. Let's talk about the biggest mistakes parents make when it comes to listening. We've already sort of addressed several of them, and you just raised another one as you talk talked about control. But if you were to put together your list of the top five things to stop doing when you're supposed to be listening, what would you.

Describe top five things when you're supposed to be listening? I'll come back. First is recognize the context. So listening for me, we use the word listening, We just use that one word or you know, one hundred different contexts. And first is recognize the context. Is this different? Have they behaved differently? Do we need a different approach, are they in a mood? Whatever it might be, is this different? So, and then make your decisions about what you need to do based on the context. So, if you're listening and you want to get to that deeper issue, then you've got to stop almost everything that you do, asking questions, telling stories. You know, we love to share our I had that experience, you know, to share those stories, being opinionated, telling them what they should do. The action planning. I've even in workshops talked about this idea of getting to the deeper issue and had the action planning. It was a guy specialists. That's going to take too long, you're kidding, right, like just getting to the wanting to just resolve and be effective and get it done. All of these are mistakes trying to solve that first problem. For all of its mistake, the only thing that works in this setting is listen, invite, and then summarize what they're saying it, keep it simple, repeat back what they're saying, and do your best not to do anything that changes the direction of the conversation.

Describe top five things when you're supposed to be listening? I'll come back. First is recognize the context. So listening for me, we use the word listening, We just use that one word or you know, one hundred different contexts. And first is recognize the context. Is this different? Have they behaved differently? Do we need a different approach, are they in a mood? Whatever it might be, is this different? So, and then make your decisions about what you need to do based on the context. So, if you're listening and you want to get to that deeper issue, then you've got to stop almost everything that you do, asking questions, telling stories. You know, we love to share our I had that experience, you know, to share those stories, being opinionated, telling them what they should do. The action planning. I've even in workshops talked about this idea of getting to the deeper issue and had the action planning. It was a guy specialists. That's going to take too long, you're kidding, right, like just getting to the wanting to just resolve and be effective and get it done. All of these are mistakes trying to solve that first problem. For all of its mistake, the only thing that works in this setting is listen, invite, and then summarize what they're saying it, keep it simple, repeat back what they're saying, and do your best not to do anything that changes the direction of the conversation.

Are there any other big mistakes that you see parents or couples make when it comes to dealing with emotional conversations or just even I know you said we're talking about a deeper form of listening, but even listening in general, anything else sort of stand out to ross?

Are there any other big mistakes that you see parents or couples make when it comes to dealing with emotional conversations or just even I know you said we're talking about a deeper form of listening, but even listening in general, anything else sort of stand out to ross?

Yeah, look, absolutely, And it can all come down to one thing. What happens in the human in our system is that when somebody else talks, our brain talks, right, and it talks and you know this constantly. Yeah, I mean the stats I've seen is that our brain can think at ten times the speed that someone else can talk. So, just while I'm saying this sentence, you've had ten other thoughts, right, And some of that will be your experience, some of that will be other people you've interviewed, Some of that will be all sorts of things. That is just the biggest problem that we have because it generates all of the big mistakes. And so whatever it might be, even if you're in the kitchen and the kid says something, your brain will react and go down a track, or your partner says something and your brain reacts and goes down a track, and you could be completely fabricating something that just doesn't exist, that issue of your inner thoughts going the way they go.

Yeah, look, absolutely, And it can all come down to one thing. What happens in the human in our system is that when somebody else talks, our brain talks, right, and it talks and you know this constantly. Yeah, I mean the stats I've seen is that our brain can think at ten times the speed that someone else can talk. So, just while I'm saying this sentence, you've had ten other thoughts, right, And some of that will be your experience, some of that will be other people you've interviewed, Some of that will be all sorts of things. That is just the biggest problem that we have because it generates all of the big mistakes. And so whatever it might be, even if you're in the kitchen and the kid says something, your brain will react and go down a track, or your partner says something and your brain reacts and goes down a track, and you could be completely fabricating something that just doesn't exist, that issue of your inner thoughts going the way they go.

You know, it's just Yeah, as a compulsive communicator, which I am, interviewing people on my podcast is one of the hardest things that I have to do. And the reason that it's so hard is because I'm forced to listen. And I have to listen because otherwise I miss something that you say, which means the conversation doesn't flow, or I ask a question that you've already answered that there's somebody and yet I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm thinking, Oh, there's a great line, or there's a great quote, or there's a great story, or there's a great principle that I could share that would add to this or let me there's this experience or I mean, my mind is constantly and it's also hang on how we're going for time and at the level the audio levels, right, there's there's the multitasking. Monkey brain goes absolutely bonkers when we're dealing with emotion. On top of that, like if we're talking to one of our kids, we're talking to her husband and wife, our partner. It's it's so hard to stay in the moment, isn't it. It's so hard to be right there and simply focused on what they're saying and letting them say it. It's got to be on the hardest, and especially with kids or a partner, to not take control.

You know, it's just Yeah, as a compulsive communicator, which I am, interviewing people on my podcast is one of the hardest things that I have to do. And the reason that it's so hard is because I'm forced to listen. And I have to listen because otherwise I miss something that you say, which means the conversation doesn't flow, or I ask a question that you've already answered that there's somebody and yet I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm thinking, Oh, there's a great line, or there's a great quote, or there's a great story, or there's a great principle that I could share that would add to this or let me there's this experience or I mean, my mind is constantly and it's also hang on how we're going for time and at the level the audio levels, right, there's there's the multitasking. Monkey brain goes absolutely bonkers when we're dealing with emotion. On top of that, like if we're talking to one of our kids, we're talking to her husband and wife, our partner. It's it's so hard to stay in the moment, isn't it. It's so hard to be right there and simply focused on what they're saying and letting them say it. It's got to be on the hardest, and especially with kids or a partner, to not take control.

I mean, I would say there's probably not many things that are harder to do in our experience, like as humans, that has to be one of the hardest things that we could ever do. That ability to just keep your mind out of the equation and focus on what they're saying is just incredibly difficult. And the only way I've personally found to do it is by this concept of summarizing. So when I really need to listen to someone, it's like a conscious thought process that almost hurts, you know. I'm concentrating on what they're saying and repeating it back in my head so I can repeat it back when they're finished, and summarize what they've said when they're finished. It's the only way I've found to quieten all of I refer to them as monkeys as well. It's like you've got monkeys chattering away in your brain. It's the only way to quiet those voices is.

I mean, I would say there's probably not many things that are harder to do in our experience, like as humans, that has to be one of the hardest things that we could ever do. That ability to just keep your mind out of the equation and focus on what they're saying is just incredibly difficult. And the only way I've personally found to do it is by this concept of summarizing. So when I really need to listen to someone, it's like a conscious thought process that almost hurts, you know. I'm concentrating on what they're saying and repeating it back in my head so I can repeat it back when they're finished, and summarize what they've said when they're finished. It's the only way I've found to quieten all of I refer to them as monkeys as well. It's like you've got monkeys chattering away in your brain. It's the only way to quiet those voices is.

Just let's talk about that summarizing thing for just a moment. It's clearly key to effective listening. You've highlighted it, you've written about it in the book, and yet it feels so techniquey, it feels so strategy ish. Now, I also have taught this many, many many times to people and also help them to make it feel not false or not feel like a technique. Psychologists would normally call it active listening. That is, somebody says something and then you say it back to them. What have you found to be an effective way to help people to share that summary in a way that doesn't feel like a technique, that doesn't feel false, but rather feels like a genuine contribution and even a gift to the conversation.

Just let's talk about that summarizing thing for just a moment. It's clearly key to effective listening. You've highlighted it, you've written about it in the book, and yet it feels so techniquey, it feels so strategy ish. Now, I also have taught this many, many many times to people and also help them to make it feel not false or not feel like a technique. Psychologists would normally call it active listening. That is, somebody says something and then you say it back to them. What have you found to be an effective way to help people to share that summary in a way that doesn't feel like a technique, that doesn't feel false, but rather feels like a genuine contribution and even a gift to the conversation.

Yeah. Great, So look I have two responses to that, and you're right, this skill has been around a long time. Active listening paraphrasing Stephen Covey call that faithful translation. There's lots of names for it. My first comment in response to that is, you have to remember their brain is very occupied. They're thinking through what they're saying, they're saying it slowly, they won't be as sensitive to it feeling like a technique as you think. Most of the time, they don't actually notice you notice, like if it genuinely is a technique, you're doing it because you've learned it as a technique, you're feeling that. But they won't be necessarily. Their brain's pretty occupied with all the stuff that's going on in their head. And then if you repeat something back to them that vaguely resembles what they've said, they will appreciate it so much. And in my experience, the minute you start summarizing or paraphrasing, they'll if you get it slightly wrong, they'll jump in, cut you off and correct you because they want you to understand. They're desperty you to understand. So that's the first one. The second response to that is, it's actually why I just use the term summarizing. That the most effective way I've found. And I'm kind of hesitant to say this, but I like what I call a summary question. So it's actually a check as opposed to a technique or I'm just repeating back what you've said. It's more of a So you're saying that X Y Z. Now you're saying that couples will struggle with this kind of technique, or somebody using this technique may feel like it's a bit false or fake.

Yeah. Great, So look I have two responses to that, and you're right, this skill has been around a long time. Active listening paraphrasing Stephen Covey call that faithful translation. There's lots of names for it. My first comment in response to that is, you have to remember their brain is very occupied. They're thinking through what they're saying, they're saying it slowly, they won't be as sensitive to it feeling like a technique as you think. Most of the time, they don't actually notice you notice, like if it genuinely is a technique, you're doing it because you've learned it as a technique, you're feeling that. But they won't be necessarily. Their brain's pretty occupied with all the stuff that's going on in their head. And then if you repeat something back to them that vaguely resembles what they've said, they will appreciate it so much. And in my experience, the minute you start summarizing or paraphrasing, they'll if you get it slightly wrong, they'll jump in, cut you off and correct you because they want you to understand. They're desperty you to understand. So that's the first one. The second response to that is, it's actually why I just use the term summarizing. That the most effective way I've found. And I'm kind of hesitant to say this, but I like what I call a summary question. So it's actually a check as opposed to a technique or I'm just repeating back what you've said. It's more of a So you're saying that X Y Z. Now you're saying that couples will struggle with this kind of technique, or somebody using this technique may feel like it's a bit false or fake.

And my response is yes, and then you know.

And my response is yes, and then you know.

Right, exactly, And so when you phrase it as a question, the person does respond very naturally, and it feels natural. Now, the reason I hesitate to suggest a question is because the minute people get the chance to ask a question, they tend to then add other information into that question and take the conversation a different direction. So that's the risk. The summary question is beautiful, it works very well, but you've got to be very disap and about just summarizing and not adding in. Like you know, if your child came and said, oh, I'm thinking about dropping out of university, and okay, so you're thinking about dropping out of you any what else are you going to do? Suddenly, now we're down that track, that's right.

Right, exactly, And so when you phrase it as a question, the person does respond very naturally, and it feels natural. Now, the reason I hesitate to suggest a question is because the minute people get the chance to ask a question, they tend to then add other information into that question and take the conversation a different direction. So that's the risk. The summary question is beautiful, it works very well, but you've got to be very disap and about just summarizing and not adding in. Like you know, if your child came and said, oh, I'm thinking about dropping out of university, and okay, so you're thinking about dropping out of you any what else are you going to do? Suddenly, now we're down that track, that's right.

And you'led and already yeah, exactly.

And you'led and already yeah, exactly.

Yes.

Yes.

May I add one other strategy that I encourage chorus to do. Tell me what you think of this one and tell me if this if this fits well with your model. I encourage parents to say what they see, which is shorthand for essentially describing what they've just encountered. So if we go to the I want to drop out of school situation, I'm going to look at my child and say, it sounds like school's really frustrating for you at the moment, or it sounds like you've had enough of this environment and you'd rather be anywhere but there. And so I'm saying what I'm seeing. If I walk into the room and the kids are fighting, I'm going to walk in and say, I can see two very upset children in front of me right now. And so I'm I'm not sitting boundaries, I'm not derailing. I'm just saying what I see, which is kind of a It's a summary of where we are just now, and it gives the kids an opportunity to give me the feedback and to me where they're going. How does that? How does that work for you? And is there anything that you don't like about it?

May I add one other strategy that I encourage chorus to do. Tell me what you think of this one and tell me if this if this fits well with your model. I encourage parents to say what they see, which is shorthand for essentially describing what they've just encountered. So if we go to the I want to drop out of school situation, I'm going to look at my child and say, it sounds like school's really frustrating for you at the moment, or it sounds like you've had enough of this environment and you'd rather be anywhere but there. And so I'm saying what I'm seeing. If I walk into the room and the kids are fighting, I'm going to walk in and say, I can see two very upset children in front of me right now. And so I'm I'm not sitting boundaries, I'm not derailing. I'm just saying what I see, which is kind of a It's a summary of where we are just now, and it gives the kids an opportunity to give me the feedback and to me where they're going. How does that? How does that work for you? And is there anything that you don't like about it?

So it works really well, And yeah, I would probably use a slightly different approach to for me, it's you're taking a little bit of a guess and that may or may not be accurate.

So it works really well, And yeah, I would probably use a slightly different approach to for me, it's you're taking a little bit of a guess and that may or may not be accurate.

But as you said before, they always correct you if you're wrong.

But as you said before, they always correct you if you're wrong.

Correct, that's right. And so that's why it's not such a big deal. And the fact that you're there and you're engaged and you're having a guess. I emphasize that big time. Don't worry about it if you get it wrong, because they are desperate to correct you.

Correct, that's right. And so that's why it's not such a big deal. And the fact that you're there and you're engaged and you're having a guess. I emphasize that big time. Don't worry about it if you get it wrong, because they are desperate to correct you.

That's right every time.

That's right every time.

So that example you used where you know I can see some yet you're frustrated, I would just they came and said, I'm thinking about dropping out of school. I would keep it much more open. So, okay, tell me more.

So that example you used where you know I can see some yet you're frustrated, I would just they came and said, I'm thinking about dropping out of school. I would keep it much more open. So, okay, tell me more.

Tell me more. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of. Yeah, yeahudn't use it in that context, to be honest, but yeah, yeah, Russ, let's still a lightning round. I have a handful of fun. Well, it's a provocative and some of them are quite thoughtful questions for you, And what I'd love you to do is answer them in one or two words or sentences, keep it really short. People really struggle with this. I'm not gonna lie, but let's see how we go. What's the weirdest thing that you've learned by truly listening to someone.

Tell me more. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of. Yeah, yeahudn't use it in that context, to be honest, but yeah, yeah, Russ, let's still a lightning round. I have a handful of fun. Well, it's a provocative and some of them are quite thoughtful questions for you, And what I'd love you to do is answer them in one or two words or sentences, keep it really short. People really struggle with this. I'm not gonna lie, but let's see how we go. What's the weirdest thing that you've learned by truly listening to someone.

The weirdest thing is the way people interpret information and Sometimes I hear them answer a question that it's like sorry or tell me something, and I'm like, I would never have interpreted.

The weirdest thing is the way people interpret information and Sometimes I hear them answer a question that it's like sorry or tell me something, and I'm like, I would never have interpreted.

That like that. Yeah, that's not the question I asked. How did you.

That like that. Yeah, that's not the question I asked. How did you.

End up there? How did you get there? Yeah?

End up there? How did you get there? Yeah?

If listening was a superpower, what would be its kryptonite?

If listening was a superpower, what would be its kryptonite?

Talking?

Talking?

Hmm? Okay, I would go with tech, but I think you're probably right with talking between your ears and your mouth. Which one do you think most people need to upgrade?

Hmm? Okay, I would go with tech, but I think you're probably right with talking between your ears and your mouth. Which one do you think most people need to upgrade?

There is?

There is?

I had a feeling you'd say that, Yeah, what's a sign that someone is pretending to listen but actually isn't.

I had a feeling you'd say that, Yeah, what's a sign that someone is pretending to listen but actually isn't.

Look at it their phone or doing anything that's distracting that is a distraction for them? Or if you watch them, you can just see they're busting to say something right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a clue.

Look at it their phone or doing anything that's distracting that is a distraction for them? Or if you watch them, you can just see they're busting to say something right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's a clue.

They're not in the going ha ha. But they're really almost almost jumping into your lap to talk.

They're not in the going ha ha. But they're really almost almost jumping into your lap to talk.

Yes, yes, And that means something's triggered in their brain and they just want to say it.

Yes, yes, And that means something's triggered in their brain and they just want to say it.

I hope you like this. Next lightning round question, this was my favorite one of all. If you could magically make everyone in the world really listen, to one person for five minutes. Who would you want them to listen to their partner?

I hope you like this. Next lightning round question, this was my favorite one of all. If you could magically make everyone in the world really listen, to one person for five minutes. Who would you want them to listen to their partner?

Huh, that's my first thought. It's their partner. Yep.

Huh, that's my first thought. It's their partner. Yep.

What's the most dangerous phrase that indicates that someone has stopped listening?

What's the most dangerous phrase that indicates that someone has stopped listening?

Whatever?

Whatever?

Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. I was going with, if you would just listen to me for a moment. But whatever is that? That's there's such an awfulness to that one. How would our political landscape change if politicians were physically unable to speak until they had fully understood the other's argument.

Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. I was going with, if you would just listen to me for a moment. But whatever is that? That's there's such an awfulness to that one. How would our political landscape change if politicians were physically unable to speak until they had fully understood the other's argument.

I would love that so much. I actually think at a deep level, if we listened to each other, and particularly in politics, we could find a much better solution. I actually think the political landscape would be that they would actually work towards what's best for the country rather than what's best for them and their party.

I would love that so much. I actually think at a deep level, if we listened to each other, and particularly in politics, we could find a much better solution. I actually think the political landscape would be that they would actually work towards what's best for the country rather than what's best for them and their party.

Here's my last lightning round question for you. What is one sound that you wish more people would stop and truly listen to?

Here's my last lightning round question for you. What is one sound that you wish more people would stop and truly listen to?

Oh, one sound. It would be some sort of vocal utterance, and it would be something hesitant, like a sound that just but I can't put it down to one specific sound, but something that's unusual for that person and makes it clear that they're hesitant, or that they're unsure of themselves, or that there's something else here could just be or something like that. Yeah. Sorry, that's not a great answer. Ross.

Oh, one sound. It would be some sort of vocal utterance, and it would be something hesitant, like a sound that just but I can't put it down to one specific sound, but something that's unusual for that person and makes it clear that they're hesitant, or that they're unsure of themselves, or that there's something else here could just be or something like that. Yeah. Sorry, that's not a great answer. Ross.

This is my last question for you as we discuss your book, Listening a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. How can we listen better? If I'm a mum or a dad, a husband or a wife or a partner listen to this podcast interview. There's already been a whole lot of really useful nuggets, but how can we listen better?

This is my last question for you as we discuss your book, Listening a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. How can we listen better? If I'm a mum or a dad, a husband or a wife or a partner listen to this podcast interview. There's already been a whole lot of really useful nuggets, but how can we listen better?

I would put that in three steps. First one is, don't try to do it all the time. Don't try to listen better every single minute of every day. That's just late. You know, that's just too hard. So look for and recognize the moments. Look for those special moments when you can tell there's a deeper issue. There's a whole chapter dedicated to explaining what they are. And there's lots of clues and hints that people give you, and the most common one is either emotion or that they're behaving in an unusual way. Second one is, then when you engage in that moment, just engage just be quiet, shut up, let them talk, and just use neutral tell me more, and then when they start talking, summarize. That would be it for me. Three simple steps. Recognize this is a moment when I can do something different and really connect. Just engage with that person. Put away the phone, put away the laptop, stop whatever you're doing, and then summarize. When they start opening up, summarize what they're saying.

I would put that in three steps. First one is, don't try to do it all the time. Don't try to listen better every single minute of every day. That's just late. You know, that's just too hard. So look for and recognize the moments. Look for those special moments when you can tell there's a deeper issue. There's a whole chapter dedicated to explaining what they are. And there's lots of clues and hints that people give you, and the most common one is either emotion or that they're behaving in an unusual way. Second one is, then when you engage in that moment, just engage just be quiet, shut up, let them talk, and just use neutral tell me more, and then when they start talking, summarize. That would be it for me. Three simple steps. Recognize this is a moment when I can do something different and really connect. Just engage with that person. Put away the phone, put away the laptop, stop whatever you're doing, and then summarize. When they start opening up, summarize what they're saying.

Ross Jad the author of Listening, a Guide to building Deeper Connections. It's been a pleasure listening to you today on the Happy Families podcast.

Ross Jad the author of Listening, a Guide to building Deeper Connections. It's been a pleasure listening to you today on the Happy Families podcast.

Thank you, It's been awesome.

Thank you, It's been awesome.

If you'd like more information about Ross's book, Listening, we will link to it in the show notes. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. If you'd like more information and more resources to make your family happier, check out Ross's book or visit Happy Families dot com dot a u mm hmm.

If you'd like more information about Ross's book, Listening, we will link to it in the show notes. The Happy Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media. If you'd like more information and more resources to make your family happier, check out Ross's book or visit Happy Families dot com dot a u mm hmm.