So honestly just comes down to not being full of yourself. Comprehend that you're a complete idiot and there are smarter people doing you out there, and you should be knowledgeable that you have a blind spot. Yes I'm great in engineering, I'm horrible, and other things like a marketing I need to hire somebody that's great at that. I neither hire a person that's great as a finance xyz, so I can then focus on the overall a big vision of just growing the company.

So honestly just comes down to not being full of yourself. Comprehend that you're a complete idiot and there are smarter people doing you out there, and you should be knowledgeable that you have a blind spot. Yes I'm great in engineering, I'm horrible, and other things like a marketing I need to hire somebody that's great at that. I neither hire a person that's great as a finance xyz, so I can then focus on the overall a big vision of just growing the company.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of button Nomics. I'm your host, Brandan Butler, founder CEO of Butter atl and today we got a special guest in the studio. I mean, we always had special guests in the studio, but this is a special this guest right here, man, even though he gets on my last dagon nerves last, it is.

Hey, everybody, welcome to another episode of button Nomics. I'm your host, Brandan Butler, founder CEO of Butter atl and today we got a special guest in the studio. I mean, we always had special guests in the studio, but this is a special this guest right here, man, even though he gets on my last dagon nerves last, it is.

A guest that's close to my heart, man, I gotta be honest, I appreciate that.

A guest that's close to my heart, man, I gotta be honest, I appreciate that.

It's a friend the homie mister Justin Saniels, founder of render aka Renderfest.

It's a friend the homie mister Justin Saniels, founder of render aka Renderfest.

Justin, how you doing, man?

Justin, how you doing, man?

I would just say that is probably the best guest a pastor introduction I've ever had in my life. Like when you're at church and you got a guest pastor up there, and they come in and they're just going down on the resume. I thank you, thank you for that.

I would just say that is probably the best guest a pastor introduction I've ever had in my life. Like when you're at church and you got a guest pastor up there, and they come in and they're just going down on the resume. I thank you, thank you for that.

Oh man.

Oh man.

You know, look man, absolutely, man. Look I've been there, been there with you, watching you built this whole render thing out. You know what I'm saying, Seeing how you're making an impact. It's good to see the stuff you've been doing around Atlanta.

You know, look man, absolutely, man. Look I've been there, been there with you, watching you built this whole render thing out. You know what I'm saying, Seeing how you're making an impact. It's good to see the stuff you've been doing around Atlanta.

You can hijack the name. You try to change our name twice now, you know, to render Fest. But it's okay, though, it's okay, I'm gonna let that go, even though the people seem to kind of gravitate towards it.

You can hijack the name. You try to change our name twice now, you know, to render Fest. But it's okay, though, it's okay, I'm gonna let that go, even though the people seem to kind of gravitate towards it.

I mean, I'm two. I'm two for.

I mean, I'm two. I'm two for.

Two, man, render Fest Silicon South like hit. I'm saying on two.

Two, man, render Fest Silicon South like hit. I'm saying on two.

For two, bro, I'll know two for two. I would say you're one for two, but I'm gona let the other one go, the other one?

For two, bro, I'll know two for two. I would say you're one for two, but I'm gona let the other one go, the other one?

Which one? Which one was a miss?

Which one? Which one was a miss?

I'm just saying, render has not taken hold in my heart. Oh.

I'm just saying, render has not taken hold in my heart. Oh.

I mean, that don't matter that people love it. It's the people out here all the time when it's Renderfest happening. So well, you know what for right now, We're not gonna call it render Fest. We're gonna refer to it by its business name, which is Render one of the largest software engineering conferences in the country. There we go, now justin tell us, man, how do you define Render? Like when people ask you what render is, how do you define it?

I mean, that don't matter that people love it. It's the people out here all the time when it's Renderfest happening. So well, you know what for right now, We're not gonna call it render Fest. We're gonna refer to it by its business name, which is Render one of the largest software engineering conferences in the country. There we go, now justin tell us, man, how do you define Render? Like when people ask you what render is, how do you define it?

I mean, are we going for the a pr answer or are we going for.

I mean, are we going for the a pr answer or are we going for.

The like for the culture man, culture for culture man?

The like for the culture man, culture for culture man?

Right? Great? So Render is probably the best tech conference you will ever go to, not just only because it's like a black folks everywhere, but because we are unapologetic about the culture happening at the conference. You could learn from people from all walks of life at the conference doing the latest, greatest thing in their respective job. Where we've even had people dressed in a full shaistison giving crazy lectures that you're like, wait, I'm learning from the guy dressed in a mask right now? That is pretty a dope, right. And we do an entire music festival, we do an entire food truck parking lot, We do stuff all around a city. Because it's a I t at tech Week and it's just a great time. You're around other people who I know a bullshit, they're just there to have a great time, learn and then just honestly go to hell home after it.

Right? Great? So Render is probably the best tech conference you will ever go to, not just only because it's like a black folks everywhere, but because we are unapologetic about the culture happening at the conference. You could learn from people from all walks of life at the conference doing the latest, greatest thing in their respective job. Where we've even had people dressed in a full shaistison giving crazy lectures that you're like, wait, I'm learning from the guy dressed in a mask right now? That is pretty a dope, right. And we do an entire music festival, we do an entire food truck parking lot, We do stuff all around a city. Because it's a I t at tech Week and it's just a great time. You're around other people who I know a bullshit, they're just there to have a great time, learn and then just honestly go to hell home after it.

Now, for full disclosure, I have been an advisory on Render, so I got a little bit of inside information. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna share anything too crazy right now. But again, some of the questions I'm gonna ask just want to help t that up because I want to make sure people fully understand the Render story, you know.

Now, for full disclosure, I have been an advisory on Render, so I got a little bit of inside information. I'm not gonna I'm not gonna share anything too crazy right now. But again, some of the questions I'm gonna ask just want to help t that up because I want to make sure people fully understand the Render story, you know.

And add a virus that he means he comes to the meetings twice a year.

And add a virus that he means he comes to the meetings twice a year.

Well, I mean that's what I'm supposed to do.

Well, I mean that's what I'm supposed to do.

Man, I'm making an impact. I show up, I making an impact, and I get the hell on. Just like you said, come do what you got to do and leave, right, you can leave. Come do what you got to do and leave, you know. But no, man, I remember, man, you started this during the pandemic and it's kind of grown a lot since then. What made you start this whole idea behind Render?

Man, I'm making an impact. I show up, I making an impact, and I get the hell on. Just like you said, come do what you got to do and leave, right, you can leave. Come do what you got to do and leave, you know. But no, man, I remember, man, you started this during the pandemic and it's kind of grown a lot since then. What made you start this whole idea behind Render?

Man? I was honestly just tired of going into the West Coast all the time. Like are you come from a come computer science a background? When you graduated here, They're like, yo, if you're trying to get a cool job, you gotta go to Cali, you gotta go to Silicono a valley. But folks like us are like, eh, screw that, I'm gonna try to blaze my own a path here, right, And what you come to find out is, while you're talking about screw that, I'm gonna blame my own path, it's actually much harder here to accomplish that. So I started to fall into the trap of like, well, I'm gonna have ATLS my home base, but I'm gonna go out to Cali and go to conferences. I'm gonna go out to Cali and go meet great and dope people. But after you start doing that week to week back to back, you're like, yo, Like I'm spending four hours on a plane each way. I'm not making a lot of money at the time. So I'm in economy. I mean, like, scratch that. I'm not even an economy. I'm not even on a delta. I'm on like a frontier going across the country week after week. That shit gets old quickly, right, So I said, all right, if atl has a global airport and we have all these different neighborhoods, why the hell don't we just have this huge conference here that could do the same exact thing that you see everybody else doing in a Silicon valley. And that right there was the overall genesis of it was I was just tired of having to constantly travel across the country, so I said, let's just a build it here.

Man? I was honestly just tired of going into the West Coast all the time. Like are you come from a come computer science a background? When you graduated here, They're like, yo, if you're trying to get a cool job, you gotta go to Cali, you gotta go to Silicono a valley. But folks like us are like, eh, screw that, I'm gonna try to blaze my own a path here, right, And what you come to find out is, while you're talking about screw that, I'm gonna blame my own path, it's actually much harder here to accomplish that. So I started to fall into the trap of like, well, I'm gonna have ATLS my home base, but I'm gonna go out to Cali and go to conferences. I'm gonna go out to Cali and go meet great and dope people. But after you start doing that week to week back to back, you're like, yo, Like I'm spending four hours on a plane each way. I'm not making a lot of money at the time. So I'm in economy. I mean, like, scratch that. I'm not even an economy. I'm not even on a delta. I'm on like a frontier going across the country week after week. That shit gets old quickly, right, So I said, all right, if atl has a global airport and we have all these different neighborhoods, why the hell don't we just have this huge conference here that could do the same exact thing that you see everybody else doing in a Silicon valley. And that right there was the overall genesis of it was I was just tired of having to constantly travel across the country, so I said, let's just a build it here.

Yeah, I mean it always seems like, you know, Atlanta's right for a lot of those big cultural conferences and festivals. I mean, yeah, man, I remember again like back in the day. When I say back in the day, you know, ten fifteen years ago, back in the days, it's like it's like pre COVID and post COVID, right, yes, because even you think about it, right before COVID, like people didn't even want to do zoom meetings and virtual meetings and stuff. It was like they it almost was like disrespectful. Yes, if you ask somebody like hey can we jump on a Google call, They're like what wow, Now it's like disrespectful for you want me to come somewhere a person half the time, you know. But it was even worse, especially if you're in tech and you're in some of these industries to where yeah, like if you were in Atlanta, even with all the great you know, schools like Georgia Tech and all the places we have out here. Like, you weren't considered serious about a startup in a lot of areas unless you went to the West coast, right, and it was like that's where all the opportunity and money was. People were just playing around out here in Atlanta. But like if you really were serious about going to the next level, you had to go out west. And first it was first it was you know, San fran Then it kind of became Austin in that whole area. But like you've really kind of like opened up the East coast now to a lot of these opportunities.

Yeah, I mean it always seems like, you know, Atlanta's right for a lot of those big cultural conferences and festivals. I mean, yeah, man, I remember again like back in the day. When I say back in the day, you know, ten fifteen years ago, back in the days, it's like it's like pre COVID and post COVID, right, yes, because even you think about it, right before COVID, like people didn't even want to do zoom meetings and virtual meetings and stuff. It was like they it almost was like disrespectful. Yes, if you ask somebody like hey can we jump on a Google call, They're like what wow, Now it's like disrespectful for you want me to come somewhere a person half the time, you know. But it was even worse, especially if you're in tech and you're in some of these industries to where yeah, like if you were in Atlanta, even with all the great you know, schools like Georgia Tech and all the places we have out here. Like, you weren't considered serious about a startup in a lot of areas unless you went to the West coast, right, and it was like that's where all the opportunity and money was. People were just playing around out here in Atlanta. But like if you really were serious about going to the next level, you had to go out west. And first it was first it was you know, San fran Then it kind of became Austin in that whole area. But like you've really kind of like opened up the East coast now to a lot of these opportunities.

Absolutely, absolutely, and it's beginning to get easier but also getting harder because they keep moving the carrot of like, well, if you only have a fifteen hundred of people, then we could do more in Atlanta. Then the conference achize fifteen hundred. You were there, you had fifteen hundred people packed out a TGS. I don't know a house of this day.

Absolutely, absolutely, and it's beginning to get easier but also getting harder because they keep moving the carrot of like, well, if you only have a fifteen hundred of people, then we could do more in Atlanta. Then the conference achize fifteen hundred. You were there, you had fifteen hundred people packed out a TGS. I don't know a house of this day.

That was crazy.

That was crazy.

I don't know how thoughts a terrible packed out TGS.

I don't know how thoughts a terrible packed out TGS.

It was a great time. And then I'm like, all right, y'all approved of y'all that we have technical people here. We could do greatness. They're like, uh, not yet. Then a Microsoft moved here, then SAP moved here, then a Cisco moved here. All these companies kept on moving here, even when Milchim got acquired by in to it. We're like, yo, we have technology here, but why do y'all keep on skipping over us? And the answer is people are just like, well, it'll just take more work to have to move to the South. But it's crazy to me that they don't kind of consider a Miami the South because everybody moved down there. And I'm like, yo, like, Miami's cool, but it only has a beach. That's all Miami got. Goes down there, and I don't know about you, but there's only so many days I could just go hang out at the beach. And then you're like, Okay, where's the culture at, where there's the people at? And you learn really quickly that it's a place that if you are not making a copious amount of money, you're gonna be like, yo, I got shit to do that. You know.

It was a great time. And then I'm like, all right, y'all approved of y'all that we have technical people here. We could do greatness. They're like, uh, not yet. Then a Microsoft moved here, then SAP moved here, then a Cisco moved here. All these companies kept on moving here, even when Milchim got acquired by in to it. We're like, yo, we have technology here, but why do y'all keep on skipping over us? And the answer is people are just like, well, it'll just take more work to have to move to the South. But it's crazy to me that they don't kind of consider a Miami the South because everybody moved down there. And I'm like, yo, like, Miami's cool, but it only has a beach. That's all Miami got. Goes down there, and I don't know about you, but there's only so many days I could just go hang out at the beach. And then you're like, Okay, where's the culture at, where there's the people at? And you learn really quickly that it's a place that if you are not making a copious amount of money, you're gonna be like, yo, I got shit to do that. You know.

You know.

You know.

It's also I mean even too, it's also interested about Miami. I remember, even with Miami, it really impacted the trajectory of what Butter became. I remember that we did the Butter we launched Butter was at like twenty eighteen, I think. And I remember I had to go down to Miami literally the day after our launch party. Really, I had to go down there for some family stuff, and I was walking around and I remember looking around and saying, Man, I don't think that Butter would work in Miami. And the reason why is because Miami won. If it's not you know, seventy five percent Spanish, it's instantly not gonna work. But even beyond that, Miami has like so many types of cultures. It does in so many types of like areas and neighborhoods, right Like I noticed then, I was like, you know, it's gonna be very hard to create a definitive kind of like culture channel for Miami because you have to speak to so many different areas. I felt the same thing about La even about New York. Last means, I said, you know that I feel like it worked really well in Atlanta because Atlanta's a little bit more binary that folks want to admit.

It's also I mean even too, it's also interested about Miami. I remember, even with Miami, it really impacted the trajectory of what Butter became. I remember that we did the Butter we launched Butter was at like twenty eighteen, I think. And I remember I had to go down to Miami literally the day after our launch party. Really, I had to go down there for some family stuff, and I was walking around and I remember looking around and saying, Man, I don't think that Butter would work in Miami. And the reason why is because Miami won. If it's not you know, seventy five percent Spanish, it's instantly not gonna work. But even beyond that, Miami has like so many types of cultures. It does in so many types of like areas and neighborhoods, right Like I noticed then, I was like, you know, it's gonna be very hard to create a definitive kind of like culture channel for Miami because you have to speak to so many different areas. I felt the same thing about La even about New York. Last means, I said, you know that I feel like it worked really well in Atlanta because Atlanta's a little bit more binary that folks want to admit.

Sometimes.

Sometimes.

Yeah, Hell, let's just be real. In atl your out there all right, or you are black? Right now, and you got everything else in between. Like I think I had already report the other day that the Asian population is the fastest growing population here. And I don't know about you, but I've been down abut for the Highway within the last couple of months, and I see Asian restaurants popping up everywhere, and I enjoy the food. It's amazing, you know.

Yeah, Hell, let's just be real. In atl your out there all right, or you are black? Right now, and you got everything else in between. Like I think I had already report the other day that the Asian population is the fastest growing population here. And I don't know about you, but I've been down abut for the Highway within the last couple of months, and I see Asian restaurants popping up everywhere, and I enjoy the food. It's amazing, you know.

So.

So.

But outside of that, to your point, atl is still very You throw right, or you are black, and you could choose what side you want to play on. And really the cool thing about what a Butter and what a render has done is we kind of play with everybody side, Like, Okay, you can be right over here, you could be a black over here, you could be anything else, I mean, tween over here. Right. We don't like really care. All we care about is your support at the end.

But outside of that, to your point, atl is still very You throw right, or you are black, and you could choose what side you want to play on. And really the cool thing about what a Butter and what a render has done is we kind of play with everybody side, Like, Okay, you can be right over here, you could be a black over here, you could be anything else, I mean, tween over here. Right. We don't like really care. All we care about is your support at the end.

Of the day. Yeah.

Of the day. Yeah.

Now, I remember again besides that gathering spot time and everything was super crowded. Wow, you crowd It was crowded, man. Look, I remember standing the line trying to get some food and stuff like that. But you know, I also remember like that was when that was the year we had Big Boy and some other folks, right I think I think I made that phone call. But anyway, besides that, though, man, like the bigger point is that to me, that's when you kind of started really adding more of the culture elements to Render, right, which again started to grow. And again big Boy was just a speaker on a panel. He wasn't performing. But then you know you started then adding in the performances. You started adding in the event with Kate Trenada, right, you know he had Anderson Pac last year. You know what I'm saying, Like, like what made you want to kind of add that element on to the festival so that it just wasn't just a straight up conference but kind of had that cultural fun element to it.

Now, I remember again besides that gathering spot time and everything was super crowded. Wow, you crowd It was crowded, man. Look, I remember standing the line trying to get some food and stuff like that. But you know, I also remember like that was when that was the year we had Big Boy and some other folks, right I think I think I made that phone call. But anyway, besides that, though, man, like the bigger point is that to me, that's when you kind of started really adding more of the culture elements to Render, right, which again started to grow. And again big Boy was just a speaker on a panel. He wasn't performing. But then you know you started then adding in the performances. You started adding in the event with Kate Trenada, right, you know he had Anderson Pac last year. You know what I'm saying, Like, like what made you want to kind of add that element on to the festival so that it just wasn't just a straight up conference but kind of had that cultural fun element to it.

Also, Yeah, and like I just want to touch on what you just I said too, which is you're the one that made that call happen. And I always tell people that's the magical thinking about ATL is you don't know who you're sitting next to you at any given moment that could actually open the doors up for you quickly. If I didn't come to the bar at TGS that day pissed off, if like you remember, I pissed off because I forget who we were about to book but they had pulled out, and I was like, man, I got cash, I got people coming, Why the hell can I get anybody? And then you looked at me and said you want to get a big boy? And I said, okay, man cool. And then like you just walked off and you came back in and said, all right, it's now happening. I said, oh.

Also, Yeah, and like I just want to touch on what you just I said too, which is you're the one that made that call happen. And I always tell people that's the magical thinking about ATL is you don't know who you're sitting next to you at any given moment that could actually open the doors up for you quickly. If I didn't come to the bar at TGS that day pissed off, if like you remember, I pissed off because I forget who we were about to book but they had pulled out, and I was like, man, I got cash, I got people coming, Why the hell can I get anybody? And then you looked at me and said you want to get a big boy? And I said, okay, man cool. And then like you just walked off and you came back in and said, all right, it's now happening. I said, oh.

Shit, okay, cool.

Shit, okay, cool.

And I think about could that same thing happen in any other other place you'd call it? Couldn't happen in La? Can it happen in NYC?

And I think about could that same thing happen in any other other place you'd call it? Couldn't happen in La? Can it happen in NYC?

A flute?

A flute?

Yes, I can. But I think that the density here of people that you're just connected to is so tight that you have a higher likelihood of it happening here than any a place south.

Yes, I can. But I think that the density here of people that you're just connected to is so tight that you have a higher likelihood of it happening here than any a place south.

You know, yeah, it kind of reminds me of that moment specifically, kind of reminds me of when I used to go to south By Southwest all the time, right, and you know, it was it was very similar right where there were just there's just certain areas to where I always tell people when you're at south By, I don't know how much it is now like it used to be, but I would always say, yeah, no, I mean went, we went, you know, it's definitely a lot different now. But I used to tell people, like, when you go to south By, you need to talk to every single person with a badge on. Yes, because the sheer amount of investment that's needed to even go.

You know, yeah, it kind of reminds me of that moment specifically, kind of reminds me of when I used to go to south By Southwest all the time, right, and you know, it was it was very similar right where there were just there's just certain areas to where I always tell people when you're at south By, I don't know how much it is now like it used to be, but I would always say, yeah, no, I mean went, we went, you know, it's definitely a lot different now. But I used to tell people, like, when you go to south By, you need to talk to every single person with a badge on. Yes, because the sheer amount of investment that's needed to even go.

To that conference. Oh god, And this was you know, yeah, five.

To that conference. Oh god, And this was you know, yeah, five.

Six, seven, almost ten years ago, right, like you're still in you know, two three grand for a ticket, easy, you're still in, you know, another five hundred thousand bucks for a plane ticket.

Six, seven, almost ten years ago, right, like you're still in you know, two three grand for a ticket, easy, you're still in, you know, another five hundred thousand bucks for a plane ticket.

Yeah, you know.

Yeah, you know.

I remember I stayed at the Courtyard by Marriott.

I remember I stayed at the Courtyard by Marriott.

I think they charged me like seven hundred dollars a night racking up, right, So like just me going alone probably costs damn near ten grand. And so I always tell people like, you know, but at the same time, any person you see with a badge on, you got to understand there there's somewhere in that same range too, right, So it just makes sense you never know who you're talking to. To your point, you know, Atlanta kind of has that density. We were specifically at the gathering spot where again you even kind of double down a little bit more, and there's just so many people here at opportunity to kind of make things happen. Would have been some other kind of like you know, inflection points or like serendipitous moments that you think of kind of like you know, always say like when you look back, there's just moments where you're like, all right, that's a moment where when that happened, it took us to the next level. Like what are some other moments that have happened with render as you look back that have kind of like taken y'all from what's this spot's kind of the next spot?

I think they charged me like seven hundred dollars a night racking up, right, So like just me going alone probably costs damn near ten grand. And so I always tell people like, you know, but at the same time, any person you see with a badge on, you got to understand there there's somewhere in that same range too, right, So it just makes sense you never know who you're talking to. To your point, you know, Atlanta kind of has that density. We were specifically at the gathering spot where again you even kind of double down a little bit more, and there's just so many people here at opportunity to kind of make things happen. Would have been some other kind of like you know, inflection points or like serendipitous moments that you think of kind of like you know, always say like when you look back, there's just moments where you're like, all right, that's a moment where when that happened, it took us to the next level. Like what are some other moments that have happened with render as you look back that have kind of like taken y'all from what's this spot's kind of the next spot?

Yeah, I think it's such as on your question too, of like the culture piece, which was I was at a TGS and I was thinking out at the bar and one of the folks asked me a question which was like, hey, have you met Jordan A. Gibbs? And I was like, no, who is Jordan's Like, oh, Jordan knows this a festival. It's called a milk and cookies. They haven't came around in a while. I think y'all both should like work to gather because I could I see the cultural element of the conference coming to a life and these are my homies over here, and I think y'all both can do a greatness well to a flash forward. Now we had to work with them in twenty twenty two to do the A Block A party first pulled that off. That was a great time. And then we tripled down in twenty twenty three and we had the entire belt Line Park and had a kitchenada out there with over eight thousand people. It was just a nuts And if I wasn't at TGS at that particular date and time, sitting in that particular seat, I would have never been introduced to a Jordan and then everything else. Yes, over time would have had a concert. Yes, over time would have added more culture. But knowing the right people like that opened it up much quicker, you know. Being able to only do that in the first a year and a half of us having a conference, I mean, I don't know about y'all at home, but try and do a festival and conferences. That shit is capital intensive, extremely capital intensive, you know, and most people don't get to that point where they're having a headline artist like k Trnado or having someone like an innocent a Pod until like eight years in, ten years in and we pulled it off in a year two and a half. That was just craziness, you know. So that's a big inflection point of our success right here. I think another inflection point is just sitting at TGS at the bar and watching people just gravitate towards me to say, hey, you're the guy building that cool thing that Brandon tells me is called a render Fest. And I'm like, yes, it's called render ATL, not render Fest, but rend the ATL And They're like, yeah, how can I be down and learning to just hear people's thoughts on it help shape my own thoughts on what it should become because it's not all about me. It's a ode to the culture. So the culture feels included in a tech overall.

Yeah, I think it's such as on your question too, of like the culture piece, which was I was at a TGS and I was thinking out at the bar and one of the folks asked me a question which was like, hey, have you met Jordan A. Gibbs? And I was like, no, who is Jordan's Like, oh, Jordan knows this a festival. It's called a milk and cookies. They haven't came around in a while. I think y'all both should like work to gather because I could I see the cultural element of the conference coming to a life and these are my homies over here, and I think y'all both can do a greatness well to a flash forward. Now we had to work with them in twenty twenty two to do the A Block A party first pulled that off. That was a great time. And then we tripled down in twenty twenty three and we had the entire belt Line Park and had a kitchenada out there with over eight thousand people. It was just a nuts And if I wasn't at TGS at that particular date and time, sitting in that particular seat, I would have never been introduced to a Jordan and then everything else. Yes, over time would have had a concert. Yes, over time would have added more culture. But knowing the right people like that opened it up much quicker, you know. Being able to only do that in the first a year and a half of us having a conference, I mean, I don't know about y'all at home, but try and do a festival and conferences. That shit is capital intensive, extremely capital intensive, you know, and most people don't get to that point where they're having a headline artist like k Trnado or having someone like an innocent a Pod until like eight years in, ten years in and we pulled it off in a year two and a half. That was just craziness, you know. So that's a big inflection point of our success right here. I think another inflection point is just sitting at TGS at the bar and watching people just gravitate towards me to say, hey, you're the guy building that cool thing that Brandon tells me is called a render Fest. And I'm like, yes, it's called render ATL, not render Fest, but rend the ATL And They're like, yeah, how can I be down and learning to just hear people's thoughts on it help shape my own thoughts on what it should become because it's not all about me. It's a ode to the culture. So the culture feels included in a tech overall.

I mean, I'll give it to you know, y'all have scaled.

I mean, I'll give it to you know, y'all have scaled.

You know, you have an amazing team, Like roughly how many people when Render kind of like ramps up. I remember talking to Jay Carter and he was talking about, you know, they have hundreds of people, you know, when it comes to time for one music fest, right then you know they obviously ramped down to kind of the core team. But like when Render is ready to ramp up, like how many people are actually working, you know, under the Render flag.

You know, you have an amazing team, Like roughly how many people when Render kind of like ramps up. I remember talking to Jay Carter and he was talking about, you know, they have hundreds of people, you know, when it comes to time for one music fest, right then you know they obviously ramped down to kind of the core team. But like when Render is ready to ramp up, like how many people are actually working, you know, under the Render flag.

So everybody that is internal to the company And when we get to a full on ramp, which is usually in April, it's about a forty okay, But then if you count all the external agencies and contractors and people that just helping from third parties, we're probably closer to a double dat if not at one hundred.

So everybody that is internal to the company And when we get to a full on ramp, which is usually in April, it's about a forty okay, But then if you count all the external agencies and contractors and people that just helping from third parties, we're probably closer to a double dat if not at one hundred.

Okay, Yeah, it's dope, man.

Okay, Yeah, it's dope, man.

And so with all those people, I mean, obviously you got to come up with systems and processes. I think that's the part, right, Like everybody talks about how hard it is to get the right team in.

And so with all those people, I mean, obviously you got to come up with systems and processes. I think that's the part, right, Like everybody talks about how hard it is to get the right team in.

Place, it's very hard. How hard is to scale certain things. You know.

Place, it's very hard. How hard is to scale certain things. You know.

Again, I've seen the way y'all use I mean obviously, you know, being on the team in the past, I've seen the way we use you know, technology to communicate, but all just also different tools like how is your tech background you know, really kind of helped you create some of those systems and processes. It's going to help you scale the company to where it's gotten so far.

Again, I've seen the way y'all use I mean obviously, you know, being on the team in the past, I've seen the way we use you know, technology to communicate, but all just also different tools like how is your tech background you know, really kind of helped you create some of those systems and processes. It's going to help you scale the company to where it's gotten so far.

Oh man. I think that's the best part of our journey, is that I'm an engineer by trade. But it's also the hardest part because we like to be over in analytical of everything. I mean, once again, you're an engineer by trade too, and we like to have a processes. We like to look at data, we like to see how are you doing particular actions. But you know what, engineer is a horrible at. We're a horrible at actual user feedback. You know, we're terrible at that. So, like currently we do all of our password sharing through an application called a one password for everybody at home. If you do not share passwords using either like one password or a last password, I highly recommend you take it out of a damn a Google doc just called passwords. And it's crazy to me when I hire people and their mind is blown because they will tell me like, yeah, I came from a blankly blank company and we shared everything and a Google doc. So they're struggling to learn how to use things like one password to access particular critical data points. Right. The cool thing is that we as engineers know how to put the processes in place, and it helps you scale much quicker because you comprehend that your time is more valuable. But the upfront cost of that is exponential though, meaning you got to know how to have a code half of the things that you want I want to do, or you got to know what particular systems can talk to other particular systems too, which is very time and labor and intensive. But once that shit starts to work, oh man, like people, I think that a render is like over one hundred people are deep and we all work a full time and I'm like dog like at any given time, like currently as we're recording this in January, there's probably only eight of us on the team right now. But we moved like a huge fortune ten company because of the fact that we got so much automation in place. We have been on the automation AI wave prior to the coolness. It was like back in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, I was like, yo, I only got X amount of dollars, How can I do more with less? And I had a foundancy, Bro, you're an engineer. You could just code everything up and get the job done as easy And I highly encourage folks. And we talked about this off offline that you still stuff like Sappier. We use the hell out of that. Hey, it automates everything you know, or use things like chat to GBT to write your PR real at least like you and I. When we were going to announce at the conference with going up back and forth in the group chat like I like my PR, I released more than your PR release, asking chat GBT to tweak each of them to get it to work, you know what I mean? Versus having to hire a person that you really can afford so highly encourage companies to invest in AI and automation it up change your lives quickly.

Oh man. I think that's the best part of our journey, is that I'm an engineer by trade. But it's also the hardest part because we like to be over in analytical of everything. I mean, once again, you're an engineer by trade too, and we like to have a processes. We like to look at data, we like to see how are you doing particular actions. But you know what, engineer is a horrible at. We're a horrible at actual user feedback. You know, we're terrible at that. So, like currently we do all of our password sharing through an application called a one password for everybody at home. If you do not share passwords using either like one password or a last password, I highly recommend you take it out of a damn a Google doc just called passwords. And it's crazy to me when I hire people and their mind is blown because they will tell me like, yeah, I came from a blankly blank company and we shared everything and a Google doc. So they're struggling to learn how to use things like one password to access particular critical data points. Right. The cool thing is that we as engineers know how to put the processes in place, and it helps you scale much quicker because you comprehend that your time is more valuable. But the upfront cost of that is exponential though, meaning you got to know how to have a code half of the things that you want I want to do, or you got to know what particular systems can talk to other particular systems too, which is very time and labor and intensive. But once that shit starts to work, oh man, like people, I think that a render is like over one hundred people are deep and we all work a full time and I'm like dog like at any given time, like currently as we're recording this in January, there's probably only eight of us on the team right now. But we moved like a huge fortune ten company because of the fact that we got so much automation in place. We have been on the automation AI wave prior to the coolness. It was like back in twenty twenty two, twenty twenty three, I was like, yo, I only got X amount of dollars, How can I do more with less? And I had a foundancy, Bro, you're an engineer. You could just code everything up and get the job done as easy And I highly encourage folks. And we talked about this off offline that you still stuff like Sappier. We use the hell out of that. Hey, it automates everything you know, or use things like chat to GBT to write your PR real at least like you and I. When we were going to announce at the conference with going up back and forth in the group chat like I like my PR, I released more than your PR release, asking chat GBT to tweak each of them to get it to work, you know what I mean? Versus having to hire a person that you really can afford so highly encourage companies to invest in AI and automation it up change your lives quickly.

Yeah, and and and as you built that too, again, like as a person that's been working on the inside also works as an advisor. Yeah, I know, it's like mentors have been kind of a big part that successful. How was you know again having because I think I think a lot of times, you know again, people try to build stuff and they kind of act like they have to go to loan, have to figure it out, Like you're not you're not.

Yeah, and and and as you built that too, again, like as a person that's been working on the inside also works as an advisor. Yeah, I know, it's like mentors have been kind of a big part that successful. How was you know again having because I think I think a lot of times, you know again, people try to build stuff and they kind of act like they have to go to loan, have to figure it out, Like you're not you're not.

You're not the first person ever done a conference.

You're not the first person ever done a conference.

Yea, the first person's ever built a company, right, So, like, how did you find you know, mentors to help you and kind of support you in building this?

Yea, the first person's ever built a company, right, So, like, how did you find you know, mentors to help you and kind of support you in building this?

I comprehend a old Zelda quote. Yeah, okay, the old one, the old one.

I comprehend a old Zelda quote. Yeah, okay, the old one, the old one.

What's older?

What's older?

You you mean you mean like the legend of Zela like links to eat my like Superintendo or Nintendo.

You you mean you mean like the legend of Zela like links to eat my like Superintendo or Nintendo.

Okay, all right, that's cool. Telling about the cartridge go When you go with a link in the cave the first time, there's a question that pops up about would you like to go alone? And then it says it is dangerous to go alone. Take a disc where you could choose like what you need, which is the sword? Right? And I internalize that quote because I comprehend, like, yo, like you will get your block knocked off out here very quickly. If you think you could solve everything. It's impossible. Yes, you could do war with a less but it's also very helpful to comprehend that you do not know everything. I tell people all the time that the president of the country, and I'm gonna just say, oh Obama for all intensive purposes right now, because that's my main guiding light. Oh Obama was a very great president. But the president isn't the smartest person in the room. It's the people that he hires right to help add advise him. Because it's impossible to be a subject matter expert in every single thing. He hires a person to help with the Apartment of Agriculture, Department of whatever. And that's because he cannot know everything about agriculture. He can't know everything about f DA regulations like whatnot. But he could hire that key person to help advise him, and he could then formulate it and say, Okay, I think we should do X, y Z next based upon what my ad advisor. But also getting your advisors to talk to other ada is on the team helps a ton too. So it's honestly just comes down to not being full of yourself. Comprehend that you're a complete idiot and there are smarter people doing you out there, and you should be knowledgeable that you have blind spots. Yes, I'm great in engineering, I'm horrible in other things like marketing. All right, I need to hire somebody that's created at that. I neither hire a person as great as a finance it's a YZ. So I can then focus on the overall a big vision, a picture of just growing the company.

Okay, all right, that's cool. Telling about the cartridge go When you go with a link in the cave the first time, there's a question that pops up about would you like to go alone? And then it says it is dangerous to go alone. Take a disc where you could choose like what you need, which is the sword? Right? And I internalize that quote because I comprehend, like, yo, like you will get your block knocked off out here very quickly. If you think you could solve everything. It's impossible. Yes, you could do war with a less but it's also very helpful to comprehend that you do not know everything. I tell people all the time that the president of the country, and I'm gonna just say, oh Obama for all intensive purposes right now, because that's my main guiding light. Oh Obama was a very great president. But the president isn't the smartest person in the room. It's the people that he hires right to help add advise him. Because it's impossible to be a subject matter expert in every single thing. He hires a person to help with the Apartment of Agriculture, Department of whatever. And that's because he cannot know everything about agriculture. He can't know everything about f DA regulations like whatnot. But he could hire that key person to help advise him, and he could then formulate it and say, Okay, I think we should do X, y Z next based upon what my ad advisor. But also getting your advisors to talk to other ada is on the team helps a ton too. So it's honestly just comes down to not being full of yourself. Comprehend that you're a complete idiot and there are smarter people doing you out there, and you should be knowledgeable that you have blind spots. Yes, I'm great in engineering, I'm horrible in other things like marketing. All right, I need to hire somebody that's created at that. I neither hire a person as great as a finance it's a YZ. So I can then focus on the overall a big vision, a picture of just growing the company.

Yeah, now, how do you do that though while building a business, because again to your point, like we have a lot of people that are in place to help support these things, but obviously you got to build a business around this thing too to make sense. You know, how did you approach getting people involved and kind of coming up with like different structures, right, Like there are some people that are you know they they they probably have like a profit sharing element. There are other people that you know they work and invest and I think that's something I've also noticed.

Yeah, now, how do you do that though while building a business, because again to your point, like we have a lot of people that are in place to help support these things, but obviously you got to build a business around this thing too to make sense. You know, how did you approach getting people involved and kind of coming up with like different structures, right, Like there are some people that are you know they they they probably have like a profit sharing element. There are other people that you know they work and invest and I think that's something I've also noticed.

It's like really interesting. And how you built the business yeah, is.

It's like really interesting. And how you built the business yeah, is.

You know what I mean? You kind of have different situations set up with different people to say, you know what, like I want you to be a part of this, but like we're going to compensate you like this, so we can still get your talent, but we're gonna make it move differently, Like how did you come up with those kind of models?

You know what I mean? You kind of have different situations set up with different people to say, you know what, like I want you to be a part of this, but like we're going to compensate you like this, so we can still get your talent, but we're gonna make it move differently, Like how did you come up with those kind of models?

Talking to a lot of folks. So all I did was I looked at different companies and I said I would ask them like how do you pay your employees? How do you pay your folks? And that was like, oh okay, there is more than one answer here. I think we get into the trap of like you gotta do just cash or you just got to do equity. I got put on a game a long time ago that was like hello, like equity being handed out as a pretty new con accept around the late nineties early to a thousands, which was actually brought on by a tech folks said, Oh, I'm gonna work at this tech company. They're going to give me x amount of the company, and I'm happy, all right. But prior to that, it was only a cash So once I learned that, I said, oh, there's other compensation models out here. Let me learn them all and let me go talk to other founders. And the biggest piece of this equation was just being inspirational EI enough that people want to follow you and they'll say, yo, like, I like what you are doing, even though you can't afford me. I am down to a ride for the cause. But also as a founder, comprehending that when you get to a point that you want to uplift them to One of the things I'm extremely proud about is that we always I figure out ways on how to subport each other in the company, you know, like we worked with Italian Twine right now, the co founder of Italian Twine came on as our COO. When we got to a point where we can afford a custom watch order, what do we do? We've turned around and spent a lot of money out a bunch of custom watches from Italian Twine, which our audience loved, and that is just one example of like, this is a person who we couldn't afford, so we had to get inspirational. Yes we still pay to them, but not at a market rate. But then we made the sure when we got to a place that we can send the money back down or like they say, send the elevator back down. Said, I had great hopping down.

Talking to a lot of folks. So all I did was I looked at different companies and I said I would ask them like how do you pay your employees? How do you pay your folks? And that was like, oh okay, there is more than one answer here. I think we get into the trap of like you gotta do just cash or you just got to do equity. I got put on a game a long time ago that was like hello, like equity being handed out as a pretty new con accept around the late nineties early to a thousands, which was actually brought on by a tech folks said, Oh, I'm gonna work at this tech company. They're going to give me x amount of the company, and I'm happy, all right. But prior to that, it was only a cash So once I learned that, I said, oh, there's other compensation models out here. Let me learn them all and let me go talk to other founders. And the biggest piece of this equation was just being inspirational EI enough that people want to follow you and they'll say, yo, like, I like what you are doing, even though you can't afford me. I am down to a ride for the cause. But also as a founder, comprehending that when you get to a point that you want to uplift them to One of the things I'm extremely proud about is that we always I figure out ways on how to subport each other in the company, you know, like we worked with Italian Twine right now, the co founder of Italian Twine came on as our COO. When we got to a point where we can afford a custom watch order, what do we do? We've turned around and spent a lot of money out a bunch of custom watches from Italian Twine, which our audience loved, and that is just one example of like, this is a person who we couldn't afford, so we had to get inspirational. Yes we still pay to them, but not at a market rate. But then we made the sure when we got to a place that we can send the money back down or like they say, send the elevator back down. Said, I had great hopping down.

You know, no, that's dope, man.

You know, no, that's dope, man.

Now again you kind of touch on things like equity, like it's understanding you're you're.

Now again you kind of touch on things like equity, like it's understanding you're you're.

The bootstrap this business, so you strap baby.

The bootstrap this business, so you strap baby.

And that's that's that's another accomplishment too, because again I think a lot of times we you know, glorify going out and raising money.

And that's that's that's another accomplishment too, because again I think a lot of times we you know, glorify going out and raising money.

I'm sure to come out and we do.

I'm sure to come out and we do.

But obviously, you know you've retained that because you have a bigger idea and a bigger vision in mind.

But obviously, you know you've retained that because you have a bigger idea and a bigger vision in mind.

Yeah. Absolutely absolutely. And I like to give credit to my uh I CEO at the time of a Melchum. He was a founder and CEO, which is a ben a chestnut. He's a close mentor of a minds. It's I joke all the time. It helps when you know you got a close mentor who is worth twenty plus a billion. You're like hey, man, like, what would you do right now? You know, because you've obviously been there and you're a multi a billionaire, right, but he always showed that, hey, you don't got a handout equity, but you do got to understand how to be inspirational towards other folks and help them along the way too, same way he's helping me now.

Yeah. Absolutely absolutely. And I like to give credit to my uh I CEO at the time of a Melchum. He was a founder and CEO, which is a ben a chestnut. He's a close mentor of a minds. It's I joke all the time. It helps when you know you got a close mentor who is worth twenty plus a billion. You're like hey, man, like, what would you do right now? You know, because you've obviously been there and you're a multi a billionaire, right, but he always showed that, hey, you don't got a handout equity, but you do got to understand how to be inspirational towards other folks and help them along the way too, same way he's helping me now.

Yeah, now, and as your growth again, you talk about bootstrapping and growing a business. Obviously you can't do this without money. One of the things is always amazing you know that I've always see advendor is you know, not only do y'all have the conference, but you're kind of have like this whole kind of like talent and trade show element on top of like the music element too, right, Like how did y'all go about finding you know, brands and sponsors that want to actually you know, partner with render in the early days.

Yeah, now, and as your growth again, you talk about bootstrapping and growing a business. Obviously you can't do this without money. One of the things is always amazing you know that I've always see advendor is you know, not only do y'all have the conference, but you're kind of have like this whole kind of like talent and trade show element on top of like the music element too, right, Like how did y'all go about finding you know, brands and sponsors that want to actually you know, partner with render in the early days.

Yeah, so in the early days, we were all thinking about how do we do heavy talent of recruiting and whatnot? Not until I talk to are you actually and you were like, yo, trade show, that's what we need to do next? I said, interesting, actually three, but yeah, like we had maybe a one or two, a minute convo about trade shows, and I was like, damn, that's a good point. I never even I thought about trade shows. And that's when things change from just being a talent acquisition conference. So like you could come here a demo what's happening at your company and do a b to be a sales at the conference now, which is a huge a portion of our business now of a growing the company, is that be to be a element. How were going about getting those partners, honestly, is just hand to hand to combat. I tell you all the time. It was me in the early days waking up at a four am sending out emails coldly saying, hey, come to my conference. I want you to give me five a thousand, ten a thousand at the time, right, and I guarantee you this is what's going to happen. The great thing is that when you do a good business like that, people go and tell others, hey, you should go check this out. And that's honestly what happened was we just made sure we did a right by everybody early on, and we currently do too. Just to be clear, like our number one mission here is all about customer status faction, both for partners and attendees, but make sure that people, whether you're an attendee or a partner, have a good time and you get the ROI too, which and now will justify you coming back a year over a year.

Yeah, so in the early days, we were all thinking about how do we do heavy talent of recruiting and whatnot? Not until I talk to are you actually and you were like, yo, trade show, that's what we need to do next? I said, interesting, actually three, but yeah, like we had maybe a one or two, a minute convo about trade shows, and I was like, damn, that's a good point. I never even I thought about trade shows. And that's when things change from just being a talent acquisition conference. So like you could come here a demo what's happening at your company and do a b to be a sales at the conference now, which is a huge a portion of our business now of a growing the company, is that be to be a element. How were going about getting those partners, honestly, is just hand to hand to combat. I tell you all the time. It was me in the early days waking up at a four am sending out emails coldly saying, hey, come to my conference. I want you to give me five a thousand, ten a thousand at the time, right, and I guarantee you this is what's going to happen. The great thing is that when you do a good business like that, people go and tell others, hey, you should go check this out. And that's honestly what happened was we just made sure we did a right by everybody early on, and we currently do too. Just to be clear, like our number one mission here is all about customer status faction, both for partners and attendees, but make sure that people, whether you're an attendee or a partner, have a good time and you get the ROI too, which and now will justify you coming back a year over a year.

One of the things that y'all do is also I've noticed it's also you know, like interesting and I'm sure it's helpful. Is you also take all that information, all that data, all the insights and people that have come out, and you all put together like a what you kind of call like an economic impact report? Yes, like what kind of gave you that inspiration? And also how has that helped y'all grow the business?

One of the things that y'all do is also I've noticed it's also you know, like interesting and I'm sure it's helpful. Is you also take all that information, all that data, all the insights and people that have come out, and you all put together like a what you kind of call like an economic impact report? Yes, like what kind of gave you that inspiration? And also how has that helped y'all grow the business?

Oh man, that's a great question. So I was on Instagram on one day and on ig they had an impact report from a non profit and completely for I get the name right now right, And I was like, this is really cool. I'm not a non a profit though, but it gives you a lot of sights into what the company has are done and with the company is going. And it kind of evinced me that I should probably donate, right, I said, if that thing could get their point in their vision across to me that quickly, why the hell can I do this too? I don't. I think there's some a law out there that claims economic impact report can only be made for non profits. That's a great thing that you learn becoming a entre repreneur that this whole concept of rules really doesn't exist. I mean, we can even talk about how Trump is in the White House right now as a feeling, you know, like we could go down this road that once you open your eyes to this whole concept of rules doesn't exist, You're like, oh, we could get a money all day, every single day. It's just all about what innovative way can you go about doing it right? So the Economic Impact a Report came from that concept of like, yo, it works for others, I'm gonna apply it here and we're gonna see what happened. We caught lightning in a damn bottle because we were the first a tech conference to actually do that, and other people now copy that. I mean it's crazy just to like watch them copy it, just to be real, but yeah, we were the first ones, and it gave a partner's confidence of like, Wow, this is what they're trying to do. Isn't just about aligning their own pockets. It's about atl growing as a whole and my an investment into a render is gonna help that. You know, anytime a person partners, we don't call them a partner, We call them a a family, a member, And when we take their money, we say thank you for your investment. So now it makes them feel like, wow, like I really invested in this thing beyond just the conference.

Oh man, that's a great question. So I was on Instagram on one day and on ig they had an impact report from a non profit and completely for I get the name right now right, And I was like, this is really cool. I'm not a non a profit though, but it gives you a lot of sights into what the company has are done and with the company is going. And it kind of evinced me that I should probably donate, right, I said, if that thing could get their point in their vision across to me that quickly, why the hell can I do this too? I don't. I think there's some a law out there that claims economic impact report can only be made for non profits. That's a great thing that you learn becoming a entre repreneur that this whole concept of rules really doesn't exist. I mean, we can even talk about how Trump is in the White House right now as a feeling, you know, like we could go down this road that once you open your eyes to this whole concept of rules doesn't exist, You're like, oh, we could get a money all day, every single day. It's just all about what innovative way can you go about doing it right? So the Economic Impact a Report came from that concept of like, yo, it works for others, I'm gonna apply it here and we're gonna see what happened. We caught lightning in a damn bottle because we were the first a tech conference to actually do that, and other people now copy that. I mean it's crazy just to like watch them copy it, just to be real, but yeah, we were the first ones, and it gave a partner's confidence of like, Wow, this is what they're trying to do. Isn't just about aligning their own pockets. It's about atl growing as a whole and my an investment into a render is gonna help that. You know, anytime a person partners, we don't call them a partner, We call them a a family, a member, And when we take their money, we say thank you for your investment. So now it makes them feel like, wow, like I really invested in this thing beyond just the conference.

Yeah, I mean and again at the end of the day two.

Yeah, I mean and again at the end of the day two.

It also helps make their job easier because those people internally have to go in and justify like why they're spending money and why they're doing things, especially if things get tight the economy gets tighter, right, So to even just have an asset, you know, on top of whatever reporting that they get back, but an additional asset that says, long, here's an actual report that it shows the impact. It makes that person's job easier to help, you know, clear clear things out, to get funds allocated and open up new opportunities. So strategically that probably helps, you know, check a lot of boxes, you know, and also too, like as you all have grown, like you know, another thing that y'all do a lot of is events outside of Atlanta.

It also helps make their job easier because those people internally have to go in and justify like why they're spending money and why they're doing things, especially if things get tight the economy gets tighter, right, So to even just have an asset, you know, on top of whatever reporting that they get back, but an additional asset that says, long, here's an actual report that it shows the impact. It makes that person's job easier to help, you know, clear clear things out, to get funds allocated and open up new opportunities. So strategically that probably helps, you know, check a lot of boxes, you know, and also too, like as you all have grown, like you know, another thing that y'all do a lot of is events outside of Atlanta.

We do a lot of them.

We do a lot of them.

What's the reasy what's the reason behind that?

What's the reasy what's the reason behind that?

Man, again, you want the real answer or the a PR answer.

Man, again, you want the real answer or the a PR answer.

You know, let's do both. How about that, let's do both well.

You know, let's do both. How about that, let's do both well.

The a PR answer is that we wanted to spread technology to the entire world and just we want people everywhere to feel the impact of our growing brand. The actual answer was, we just made a boatload of money in twenty twenty one. A boatload is kind of a relative just get clear, right, And I was like, wow, hey, y'all, what should we do next? And folks were like, I don't know, And I said, what's coming up around the country And they said, oh, it is this ear event called a Miami Art Aboso. And I said, let's just go try it out. And that's how we ended up doing our first off site activation was at the Aboso and I said, this is pretty cool. Let's just keep it like a going, and then we went from Aboso, then we did south By, and then we just kept doing more and more things, like we did a Miami Tech Week or two, and people just enjoyed it. And the reason why people enjoyed it was because at the time, COVID just got done and there wasn't a lot of groups outside. Yet thankfully Georgia never closed if you remember, and wide open, We're wide open, so all of us here we're like, yo, it is a prime time. Let's go outside and let other people have a good time. And that's honestly all it became as was like, let's have a good time with the ego a system, and I think that was what was the needed at the time. Honestly, it was if I was at home for the last month, the last month and a half, and now you're giving me an outlet to come meet new folks, dance, have a great time, that's all I need. Once we got the people's attention, it then became into like a strategic mission of like, Okay, we got their attention, now let's add some education on top of it. Because at the end of the day, Render likes to have a good time, but I am dead serious about the educational value that we want to add too. So that's when we started doing things like come have a good time, but we're gonna do is educational workshop, or were going to do just educational a seminar, or we're gonna do this hardcore hands on technical training at that same time, so it just kind of morphed over time into what the people need.

The a PR answer is that we wanted to spread technology to the entire world and just we want people everywhere to feel the impact of our growing brand. The actual answer was, we just made a boatload of money in twenty twenty one. A boatload is kind of a relative just get clear, right, And I was like, wow, hey, y'all, what should we do next? And folks were like, I don't know, And I said, what's coming up around the country And they said, oh, it is this ear event called a Miami Art Aboso. And I said, let's just go try it out. And that's how we ended up doing our first off site activation was at the Aboso and I said, this is pretty cool. Let's just keep it like a going, and then we went from Aboso, then we did south By, and then we just kept doing more and more things, like we did a Miami Tech Week or two, and people just enjoyed it. And the reason why people enjoyed it was because at the time, COVID just got done and there wasn't a lot of groups outside. Yet thankfully Georgia never closed if you remember, and wide open, We're wide open, so all of us here we're like, yo, it is a prime time. Let's go outside and let other people have a good time. And that's honestly all it became as was like, let's have a good time with the ego a system, and I think that was what was the needed at the time. Honestly, it was if I was at home for the last month, the last month and a half, and now you're giving me an outlet to come meet new folks, dance, have a great time, that's all I need. Once we got the people's attention, it then became into like a strategic mission of like, Okay, we got their attention, now let's add some education on top of it. Because at the end of the day, Render likes to have a good time, but I am dead serious about the educational value that we want to add too. So that's when we started doing things like come have a good time, but we're gonna do is educational workshop, or were going to do just educational a seminar, or we're gonna do this hardcore hands on technical training at that same time, so it just kind of morphed over time into what the people need.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean then again you also launch things like Atlanta Tech Week, right, So like there's all these kind of different extensions of the brand and different elements, right, and partnerships y'all have done strategically to kind of just help, you know, extend it out. I almost kind of think about it like similar to how we do four L four day, right, Like the start off as like a day, but now it's kind of become a weekend and a whole week to we kind of expand this thing and make it more you know, make it again more year round, and then even now to the point of, you know, similar to how you all do events year round from a four or four element, we have now the four or four fund, yes, which allows us to now do donations and activations and events kind of year round. So it kind of comes that natural extension to keep it top of mind for folks, because again, there's a moment in time, but then there's you know, three hundred and sixty other plus days of the year that you've got to figure out how to keep people engaged.

I mean then again you also launch things like Atlanta Tech Week, right, So like there's all these kind of different extensions of the brand and different elements, right, and partnerships y'all have done strategically to kind of just help, you know, extend it out. I almost kind of think about it like similar to how we do four L four day, right, Like the start off as like a day, but now it's kind of become a weekend and a whole week to we kind of expand this thing and make it more you know, make it again more year round, and then even now to the point of, you know, similar to how you all do events year round from a four or four element, we have now the four or four fund, yes, which allows us to now do donations and activations and events kind of year round. So it kind of comes that natural extension to keep it top of mind for folks, because again, there's a moment in time, but then there's you know, three hundred and sixty other plus days of the year that you've got to figure out how to keep people engaged.

Which is hard, which is really hard, right, Yeah, very hard. I will never forget when I've felt a very down on myself. I was like, yo, like, I don't think I'm doing a good job. I don't think i'm building the ecosystem well, not just here, but like everywhere or there were at and I had one a person like it's crazy how timing works right, And he was like, hey, man, how are you? And I'm like, man, I'm doing good, but here's how I feel. And he was like, I'm gonna tell you, building a come up immunity is probably the hardest thing to do because it's easy to build a product, like you got the thing that you got to build, and then you're done technically right, But building a come immunity takes a lot of work because you got to actually, like to your point, keep them constantly engaged and there is no room for failure. If you take off a month or two, they're gonna go gravitate elsewhere. It's kind of like a sheep. You got to continuously hurt them constantly. And if you're like, all right, I'm gonna go on a PTO over here, they're like, well, what about nothing else to do? We're just going to gravitate over there now. And then you come back from a paid time off and you're like, where the hell am I sheep at? And you're like, oh, I can't leave. Well that's crazy, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's easily the hardest thing to do.