Hi, I'm Britney Saunders and welcome to Big Business, the place where business is far from boring. And today I'm recording on gaddigal Land. Now I somehow manage to build an empire from the garage underneath my house and I'm here to share it all with you, from the winds, the mistakes, the challenging times and the funny moments in between. So, whether you're in business already, perhaps you're not in the game at all, maybe you're looking for some inspo, or you just simply want to hear the tea when it comes to running a business, this is the podcast for you. Coming up on today's episode, I'm joined by a very old friend of mine, Kira Rumble.

Hi, I'm Britney Saunders and welcome to Big Business, the place where business is far from boring. And today I'm recording on gaddigal Land. Now I somehow manage to build an empire from the garage underneath my house and I'm here to share it all with you, from the winds, the mistakes, the challenging times and the funny moments in between. So, whether you're in business already, perhaps you're not in the game at all, maybe you're looking for some inspo, or you just simply want to hear the tea when it comes to running a business, this is the podcast for you. Coming up on today's episode, I'm joined by a very old friend of mine, Kira Rumble.

Now.

Now.

Kira is an Australian entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Crumbled Group, encompassing Crumbled Foods, Habitual Beauty and her newest venture, Minnie and Me. Kira and I go way back, and I'm so excited to be bringing her onto the pod today. We are discussing all things her business, her journey, how it's taken her over ten years to get to where she is today, and all the mistakes and challenges that she has faced along the way. Kira, Welcome to big Business.

Kira is an Australian entrepreneur and the founder and CEO of Crumbled Group, encompassing Crumbled Foods, Habitual Beauty and her newest venture, Minnie and Me. Kira and I go way back, and I'm so excited to be bringing her onto the pod today. We are discussing all things her business, her journey, how it's taken her over ten years to get to where she is today, and all the mistakes and challenges that she has faced along the way. Kira, Welcome to big Business.

Thanks for having me.

Thanks for having me.

I felt this is a long time in the works because we have known of each other for a really long.

I felt this is a long time in the works because we have known of each other for a really long.

Time now, I reckon like well over ten years.

Time now, I reckon like well over ten years.

Hey. Yeah, and before you came on the pod, we were chatting about we sent over some questions to you, and you were talking about how your business journey has been this like ten plus year venture. And I think when I first connected with you back then, like ten or so years ago, I think that's when you were doing like the hand rolled balls, yeah, at home. So take us time, take us through your journey of all of your many business ventures, like it began obviously a long time ago.

Hey. Yeah, and before you came on the pod, we were chatting about we sent over some questions to you, and you were talking about how your business journey has been this like ten plus year venture. And I think when I first connected with you back then, like ten or so years ago, I think that's when you were doing like the hand rolled balls, yeah, at home. So take us time, take us through your journey of all of your many business ventures, like it began obviously a long time ago.

Yeah. It's funny because it seems like I'm still very much in like a startup phase within the business.

Yeah. It's funny because it seems like I'm still very much in like a startup phase within the business.

Do we ever get out of that mentality?

Do we ever get out of that mentality?

I know? But yeah, it started when I got really sick. I was pre diabetic. I couldn't find a healthy option in the supermarket that wasn't like filled with sugar. So I just started making my own and then went and got to went to so many different cafes and said, hey, do you want to stock my product? And I was working full time and then all of a sudden, I had like sixty stockersts. Well, I was kind of in the position where I was had to quit my full time job and I was thrown into this world of owning a business and having no idea. But yeah, we've definitely come a long way since then. I never want to roll a protein ball ever again.

I know? But yeah, it started when I got really sick. I was pre diabetic. I couldn't find a healthy option in the supermarket that wasn't like filled with sugar. So I just started making my own and then went and got to went to so many different cafes and said, hey, do you want to stock my product? And I was working full time and then all of a sudden, I had like sixty stockersts. Well, I was kind of in the position where I was had to quit my full time job and I was thrown into this world of owning a business and having no idea. But yeah, we've definitely come a long way since then. I never want to roll a protein ball ever again.

I feel like you're almost really ahead of the game back then, because it was so long ago. I remember everyone back then. Because this was also when we saw like Instagram come into play and like the rise of influencers in Australia. And I know that you built a following of your own. How did you build the following initially? Was it because of all like these healthy traits that you were making.

I feel like you're almost really ahead of the game back then, because it was so long ago. I remember everyone back then. Because this was also when we saw like Instagram come into play and like the rise of influencers in Australia. And I know that you built a following of your own. How did you build the following initially? Was it because of all like these healthy traits that you were making.

I actually got picked up by Lorna Jane and her e book Okay, because I used to I was documenting sort of my journey of health and well being, and then I did I started doing recipes because I love food, and I remember she posted like three of my recipes in an e book and then overnight it was just something that just was huge and that was really the start of me dipping my toes into the Instagram world.

I actually got picked up by Lorna Jane and her e book Okay, because I used to I was documenting sort of my journey of health and well being, and then I did I started doing recipes because I love food, and I remember she posted like three of my recipes in an e book and then overnight it was just something that just was huge and that was really the start of me dipping my toes into the Instagram world.

I feel like back then, Instagram was so different, so different, Like you could have someone mention you in a blog or something a coous of times, yeah, and you would instantly get thousands of followers. Like it was so much easier to grow back then. And I don't know about you, but I know that I'm grateful that I kind of started my online brand journey back then.

I feel like back then, Instagram was so different, so different, Like you could have someone mention you in a blog or something a coous of times, yeah, and you would instantly get thousands of followers. Like it was so much easier to grow back then. And I don't know about you, but I know that I'm grateful that I kind of started my online brand journey back then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Imagine, you know, coming into it now when it's so different, I just.

Imagine, you know, coming into it now when it's so different, I just.

Don't even know if you'd even be able to. Yeah, I mean, you are like the og when it comes to YouTube. And someone said the other day, oh, what's your you know, are you doing any YouTube advertising? And I was like, oh shit, do I need to?

Don't even know if you'd even be able to. Yeah, I mean, you are like the og when it comes to YouTube. And someone said the other day, oh, what's your you know, are you doing any YouTube advertising? And I was like, oh shit, do I need to?

I haven't logged into YouTube v years.

I haven't logged into YouTube v years.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I wouldn't even remember my YouTube bathwork, but it's somewhere there, poor thing. It's ancient. So obviously Crumbled was your first business, right.

I wouldn't even remember my YouTube bathwork, but it's somewhere there, poor thing. It's ancient. So obviously Crumbled was your first business, right.

Yeah, So once the protein balls sort of took off, there was only so many hand rolling protein balls that I could do, so I knew I needed to commercialize the product, but I had no idea how to do it. And my partner Anthony, and I kind of just went alongside and sort of grew the businesses together, but very much. He was still working full time. This was like my full time thing. And yeah, we went and started the quest to commercialize it so we wouldn't have to be manually rolling protein balls anymore.

Yeah, So once the protein balls sort of took off, there was only so many hand rolling protein balls that I could do, so I knew I needed to commercialize the product, but I had no idea how to do it. And my partner Anthony, and I kind of just went alongside and sort of grew the businesses together, but very much. He was still working full time. This was like my full time thing. And yeah, we went and started the quest to commercialize it so we wouldn't have to be manually rolling protein balls anymore.

You're quite literally just getting all the ingredients together, mixing them up in a bowl.

You're quite literally just getting all the ingredients together, mixing them up in a bowl.

Yeah. Then hired a commercial kitchen and doing like bulk making of it, and then it just sort of grew and grew and grew to the point where it was just twenty four to seven, you know, barely sleeping trying to roll these bloody protein balls and for fill all these orders. And I was cold calling to all these cafes, which is my idea of absolute hell cold calling. I was dropping in going Hi, I've got a protein board business. Do you want to stop my products? And it's just I look back, going how did I do that? Because that's just my idea of just getting completely out of my comfort zone. But yeah, we ended up launching Crumbles properly and it flopped, and I thought I needed to hire like a broker and outsource everything. And that was just my sort of inner critic, being like, I can't do it. So we hired people and that was sort of one of the biggest downfalls that we did was to outsource a lot of things.

Yeah. Then hired a commercial kitchen and doing like bulk making of it, and then it just sort of grew and grew and grew to the point where it was just twenty four to seven, you know, barely sleeping trying to roll these bloody protein balls and for fill all these orders. And I was cold calling to all these cafes, which is my idea of absolute hell cold calling. I was dropping in going Hi, I've got a protein board business. Do you want to stop my products? And it's just I look back, going how did I do that? Because that's just my idea of just getting completely out of my comfort zone. But yeah, we ended up launching Crumbles properly and it flopped, and I thought I needed to hire like a broker and outsource everything. And that was just my sort of inner critic, being like, I can't do it. So we hired people and that was sort of one of the biggest downfalls that we did was to outsource a lot of things.

Would you say that that was the reason why the balls flopped? Yeah, Like what was it exactly? And like when you say it flopped, like what exactly happened?

Would you say that that was the reason why the balls flopped? Yeah, Like what was it exactly? And like when you say it flopped, like what exactly happened?

So the margins weren't there. We were guided by the wrong people because I really had no idea what we were really doing. We're trying to learn and we were at the time looking at YouTube, how to do SEO and building a website and all of these things and very much doing everything on our own. But when it came to sales, I thought, okay, well I needed someone to do it for me. And yeah, I think the margins weren't there. I wasn't really happy with the formulation. But we kind of took so long to get to where we were because we were saving and then we had to find out more money and you know, using Instagram to sort of fund it all, and there was just so many things that just didn't go right from the get go, and I ended up just deciding, Okay, I need to pull it yep, and lost you know, heaps of money from doing that.

So the margins weren't there. We were guided by the wrong people because I really had no idea what we were really doing. We're trying to learn and we were at the time looking at YouTube, how to do SEO and building a website and all of these things and very much doing everything on our own. But when it came to sales, I thought, okay, well I needed someone to do it for me. And yeah, I think the margins weren't there. I wasn't really happy with the formulation. But we kind of took so long to get to where we were because we were saving and then we had to find out more money and you know, using Instagram to sort of fund it all, and there was just so many things that just didn't go right from the get go, and I ended up just deciding, Okay, I need to pull it yep, and lost you know, heaps of money from doing that.

I think that's the right thing. I think that's one thing when anyone's going into business, like I said this all the time on this podcast, like none of us have any idea what we're doing. Yep, like no one. And I think that can be a really scary thing for any business owner, especially they're starting out and they're in those early days and you just think, what the fuck am I actually doing? And in your instance, you thought because you wanted to expand and go really commercial with your balls, that you're like, oh, well, I don't know how to do this. I'm going to get a bunch of people on board and they're going to be the ones that can just tell me what to do. And I think it can be easier for us sometimes to think, yep, I'm going to pay someone to tell me what to do. Yeah, but it sometimes isn't always the right move.

I think that's the right thing. I think that's one thing when anyone's going into business, like I said this all the time on this podcast, like none of us have any idea what we're doing. Yep, like no one. And I think that can be a really scary thing for any business owner, especially they're starting out and they're in those early days and you just think, what the fuck am I actually doing? And in your instance, you thought because you wanted to expand and go really commercial with your balls, that you're like, oh, well, I don't know how to do this. I'm going to get a bunch of people on board and they're going to be the ones that can just tell me what to do. And I think it can be easier for us sometimes to think, yep, I'm going to pay someone to tell me what to do. Yeah, but it sometimes isn't always the right move.

And I think that's one of the biggest things is I've learned a lot of what not to do in business.

And I think that's one of the biggest things is I've learned a lot of what not to do in business.

I think that's what business is like, just learning every time I did that wrong, next time, I'll do that yourself.

I think that's what business is like, just learning every time I did that wrong, next time, I'll do that yourself.

But I still have the biggest ice. We are about to launch a product for Habitual Beauty, and we're getting everything ready and I was like, where are the boxes? Are they in the warehouse? And we're looking around in the warehouse for like a solid half a day, and then I realized I hadn't ordered the box. Yeah, And I was like, wow, that's.

But I still have the biggest ice. We are about to launch a product for Habitual Beauty, and we're getting everything ready and I was like, where are the boxes? Are they in the warehouse? And we're looking around in the warehouse for like a solid half a day, and then I realized I hadn't ordered the box. Yeah, And I was like, wow, that's.

A first yep. I feel like those mistakes, like you never stopped making them, like us recently with our lip oils that we just launched cos they're bar codes.

A first yep. I feel like those mistakes, like you never stopped making them, like us recently with our lip oils that we just launched cos they're bar codes.

Like just had a big chuckle at that.

Like just had a big chuckle at that.

We we barcode all of our like fate items. You're not used to a box, no, And so we were so worried about getting like the writing on the box correct and like spell checking. That's freaking tiny little writing, making sure the right logos are on there. You know, Vegan made in Australia, blah blah blah. Forgot the barcode, didn't I when we sat there for days like putting these barcodes on. But you never, like, no matter how big you get in business or how much better you get, I find like you still do those things, like even when you're well into your journey and we just have to be okay with that.

We we barcode all of our like fate items. You're not used to a box, no, And so we were so worried about getting like the writing on the box correct and like spell checking. That's freaking tiny little writing, making sure the right logos are on there. You know, Vegan made in Australia, blah blah blah. Forgot the barcode, didn't I when we sat there for days like putting these barcodes on. But you never, like, no matter how big you get in business or how much better you get, I find like you still do those things, like even when you're well into your journey and we just have to be okay with that.

And I think it's about going okay next time, I won't do that smiling and going we're fine, We'll be fine. I feel like that's just honestly what business is in a nutshell. So you obviously started this on your own. Then you thought, I'm going to scale this thing up. Yep.

And I think it's about going okay next time, I won't do that smiling and going we're fine, We'll be fine. I feel like that's just honestly what business is in a nutshell. So you obviously started this on your own. Then you thought, I'm going to scale this thing up. Yep.

You got some people on board to try to help with that, and then and it flopped. Yeah, where did you go from there? Like, how did you pivot?

You got some people on board to try to help with that, and then and it flopped. Yeah, where did you go from there? Like, how did you pivot?

In the background, I was developing beauty bytes yep with my food Tech and I always knew that booty Bytes was going to be the product to help, you know, us cement ourselves within this health food industry because I was really trying to turn it on its head and actually have a healthy product within the supermarket. And because it blended collagen and vitamins with food, it was a completely new category. Nowhere on the Australian market. There was a functional food at the time when we launched, And I remember I went to Priceline and I pitched it. I would be flying down to have a meeting with the wrong person, but I knew I just need to get my foot in the door and then pitch them the concept. Yeah that sounds really good. Come back down when you've got prototypes, And so I fly back down and you know, get you know, the prototypes on the table and talk them through it. And it was a real slow process, but I knew that they were really interested because they could leverage that sort of influence the side of things. They knew I was really good with marketing, and they knew that it was a really good product. Yeah, and so we launched with price sign It was incredible. And then pretty quickly after that, I hunted down the buyer for coals and went, how do.

In the background, I was developing beauty bytes yep with my food Tech and I always knew that booty Bytes was going to be the product to help, you know, us cement ourselves within this health food industry because I was really trying to turn it on its head and actually have a healthy product within the supermarket. And because it blended collagen and vitamins with food, it was a completely new category. Nowhere on the Australian market. There was a functional food at the time when we launched, And I remember I went to Priceline and I pitched it. I would be flying down to have a meeting with the wrong person, but I knew I just need to get my foot in the door and then pitch them the concept. Yeah that sounds really good. Come back down when you've got prototypes, And so I fly back down and you know, get you know, the prototypes on the table and talk them through it. And it was a real slow process, but I knew that they were really interested because they could leverage that sort of influence the side of things. They knew I was really good with marketing, and they knew that it was a really good product. Yeah, and so we launched with price sign It was incredible. And then pretty quickly after that, I hunted down the buyer for coals and went, how do.

You hunt these people down? By the way LinkedIn yet you just stalk them? Yeah, do you have the setting on where they can see when you viewed their profile. I was get really scared about that. You know, it's like Britney, you do your profile. I gen't really scared of who's like LinkedIn?

You hunt these people down? By the way LinkedIn yet you just stalk them? Yeah, do you have the setting on where they can see when you viewed their profile. I was get really scared about that. You know, it's like Britney, you do your profile. I gen't really scared of who's like LinkedIn?

I go on to Yeah, yeah, I haven't used LinkedIn for a while because I've just been caught up with everything else.

I go on to Yeah, yeah, I haven't used LinkedIn for a while because I've just been caught up with everything else.

It's one of those platforms where it's like so powerful LinkedIn, like the connections that you can make on there. I know people that have built their careers from LinkedIn, like just from networking, but it's one of those apps that I'm just like, oh, I don't.

It's one of those platforms where it's like so powerful LinkedIn, like the connections that you can make on there. I know people that have built their careers from LinkedIn, like just from networking, but it's one of those apps that I'm just like, oh, I don't.

Have time time is. So it's one of my biggest sticking points is I keep on saying I don't have time. I don't have time. But you know, if I wanted to, I'm sure you could apply yourself.

Have time time is. So it's one of my biggest sticking points is I keep on saying I don't have time. I don't have time. But you know, if I wanted to, I'm sure you could apply yourself.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Fine, time, I don't know, but yeah. I went down to Coals and they were like, no, no, no, this is a vitamin. This doesn't see it with us, and I said, taste it. And then they tasted it and they're like, oh, this is definitely food. And yeah. So we went from price Line to Cohl's and was in you know, the major retailers. And then I was like, okay, well what next, what do we do now? And so covid here.

Fine, time, I don't know, but yeah. I went down to Coals and they were like, no, no, no, this is a vitamin. This doesn't see it with us, and I said, taste it. And then they tasted it and they're like, oh, this is definitely food. And yeah. So we went from price Line to Cohl's and was in you know, the major retailers. And then I was like, okay, well what next, what do we do now? And so covid here.

And did you find covid?

And did you find covid?

Covid because we were in supermarkets, the sales were fine and steady because people online shopping and people were going to supermarkets as their one outing.

Covid because we were in supermarkets, the sales were fine and steady because people online shopping and people were going to supermarkets as their one outing.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And we were going through IVF at the time and going through a lot of infertility. And then we developed Habitual Beauty, which is a pregnancy safe skincare range.

And we were going through IVF at the time and going through a lot of infertility. And then we developed Habitual Beauty, which is a pregnancy safe skincare range.

Which you've actually brought in for me today.

Which you've actually brought in for me today.

Did I bring you some Habitual Beauty?

Did I bring you some Habitual Beauty?

Oh no, no, you've brought me the mini and me can still drink.

Oh no, no, you've brought me the mini and me can still drink.

Yeah, so we launched. I actually was pitched. I pitched with Sephora to be part of their Accelerator program, and the first time I pitched, I got turned away, didn't make the cut, and then the next time I did it, I got it. And then it was incredible. Thirty women across the world women to be in San fran but COVID hit so it was all via correspondence, but yeah, that was incredible.

Yeah, so we launched. I actually was pitched. I pitched with Sephora to be part of their Accelerator program, and the first time I pitched, I got turned away, didn't make the cut, and then the next time I did it, I got it. And then it was incredible. Thirty women across the world women to be in San fran but COVID hit so it was all via correspondence, but yeah, that was incredible.

What is it like to I'm always really intrigued when I have guests on that are in like Priceline calls Terry wir this, that and the other, Like what is it like pitching to these huge corporations and getting that no, like when you get knocked back, Like what is that?

What is it like to I'm always really intrigued when I have guests on that are in like Priceline calls Terry wir this, that and the other, Like what is it like pitching to these huge corporations and getting that no, like when you get knocked back, Like what is that?

Due to the ego? I definitely think now our focus is on e com yeah, across all brands, so I think now it's different mentality. But back in the day, a retailer was everything to me. It's still I still value being in a retail outlet for sure, but it's I don't know, I don't take no well from people, so I guess that's why I reapplied for the sephar Accelerator program and Yep, luckily I got it. But yeah, I think there's always learning. So the first time I apply for the Sephora thing, I was going through one of my first pregnancy losses and I needed to go through all of that and really focus on that, and go through IVF and go through my personal challenges to really cement myself as who I am as a person. So I had to do a lot of personal growth. So I think that that was why I didn't get the Sephora the first time. But I guess that's what I tell myself.

Due to the ego? I definitely think now our focus is on e com yeah, across all brands, so I think now it's different mentality. But back in the day, a retailer was everything to me. It's still I still value being in a retail outlet for sure, but it's I don't know, I don't take no well from people, so I guess that's why I reapplied for the sephar Accelerator program and Yep, luckily I got it. But yeah, I think there's always learning. So the first time I apply for the Sephora thing, I was going through one of my first pregnancy losses and I needed to go through all of that and really focus on that, and go through IVF and go through my personal challenges to really cement myself as who I am as a person. So I had to do a lot of personal growth. So I think that that was why I didn't get the Sephora the first time. But I guess that's what I tell myself.

Everything always works out for a reason. It wasn't meant to happen the first time, so good to happen the second time. I think it would be hard, Like just thinking from my own perspective, when you have your own business or your own product or whatever, and that's what you've worked on yourself for so long, you're so proud of like the product, you're so proud of the brand, and I guess like being the founder and owner, you're also just used to calling all the shots and like not having anyone say no or anything along those lines. So I can imagine it would be really hard when you're so passionate about this thing that you're doing and you've been doing it for years to then go into let's say, like Priceline or wherever and do your big pitch that you just think, Yep, this is amazing and we're amazing and the product is amazing. And to just have someone turn around and say no, I can imagine that would like crush your ego a bit.

Everything always works out for a reason. It wasn't meant to happen the first time, so good to happen the second time. I think it would be hard, Like just thinking from my own perspective, when you have your own business or your own product or whatever, and that's what you've worked on yourself for so long, you're so proud of like the product, you're so proud of the brand, and I guess like being the founder and owner, you're also just used to calling all the shots and like not having anyone say no or anything along those lines. So I can imagine it would be really hard when you're so passionate about this thing that you're doing and you've been doing it for years to then go into let's say, like Priceline or wherever and do your big pitch that you just think, Yep, this is amazing and we're amazing and the product is amazing. And to just have someone turn around and say no, I can imagine that would like crush your ego a bit.

Yeah, And even just like reading reviews or testimonials, and for the most part, I would say ninety nine percent are amazing reviews. But I have a habit, and I know a lot of other business owners have a habit to focus on the negatives oh all the time. Yeah, and you take it so personally because it is your own baby essentially. So that's something that I definitely need to work on. But I think I just remind myself that it's all business, yeah, and they don't have a job to do. It's not personal, even though if they say, oh, I don't like the taste of that, that's personal. But it's hard.

Yeah, And even just like reading reviews or testimonials, and for the most part, I would say ninety nine percent are amazing reviews. But I have a habit, and I know a lot of other business owners have a habit to focus on the negatives oh all the time. Yeah, and you take it so personally because it is your own baby essentially. So that's something that I definitely need to work on. But I think I just remind myself that it's all business, yeah, and they don't have a job to do. It's not personal, even though if they say, oh, I don't like the taste of that, that's personal. But it's hard.

And I think every business owner out there, or even if someone's just like creating content online or if you're in a position where people can give you feedback on something that you're working on, it is so hard to not take it personally at all, and you can really, like, you could get a hundred positive reviews, let's say, on your product, and then if there's that one one negative one that comes through, it's.

And I think every business owner out there, or even if someone's just like creating content online or if you're in a position where people can give you feedback on something that you're working on, it is so hard to not take it personally at all, and you can really, like, you could get a hundred positive reviews, let's say, on your product, and then if there's that one one negative one that comes through, it's.

Louder, so much louder, and you just focus on it so much more. So it's Yeah, once I stopped.

Louder, so much louder, and you just focus on it so much more. So it's Yeah, once I stopped.

Doing customer service, I felt a lot better because, yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it's really important when you're like for any business owners out there, you know, and when you do start it yourself, you are doing all those jobs on your own. You're doing the customer service, you're packing the orders, like, you're doing the social media, you're doing everything. I think one of the biggest weights that was lifted off my shoulders in my business journey was when I stopped doing those emails. And I've got business owner friends now that still do their customer service because like, you want to have control over it and you want the experience to be amazing every time, but especially like when you are getting those more like negative emails or someone's blowing up because of something like I find that a bad position for an owner to be, Like mentally mentally really taxing.

Doing customer service, I felt a lot better because, yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think it's really important when you're like for any business owners out there, you know, and when you do start it yourself, you are doing all those jobs on your own. You're doing the customer service, you're packing the orders, like, you're doing the social media, you're doing everything. I think one of the biggest weights that was lifted off my shoulders in my business journey was when I stopped doing those emails. And I've got business owner friends now that still do their customer service because like, you want to have control over it and you want the experience to be amazing every time, but especially like when you are getting those more like negative emails or someone's blowing up because of something like I find that a bad position for an owner to be, Like mentally mentally really taxing.

Yeah, I actually have just hired my mum to do customer service nice and she's doing so well. But you can tell that she takes it personally too. She tries so hart because she's so invested, and she's like, I don't want this person to have a bad experience, And I just say, so long as that you are giving them good customer service experience. If they don't like the products or they don't like how Australia Post is to deliver their order, it's okay. There's only so many things we can control. But I think that, yeah, she's so passionate about me bless but it's so sweet just seeing she's just yeah, she's been great. But I think having that person that's not you do it was really good for my mental health, not so fixating on it.

Yeah, I actually have just hired my mum to do customer service nice and she's doing so well. But you can tell that she takes it personally too. She tries so hart because she's so invested, and she's like, I don't want this person to have a bad experience, And I just say, so long as that you are giving them good customer service experience. If they don't like the products or they don't like how Australia Post is to deliver their order, it's okay. There's only so many things we can control. But I think that, yeah, she's so passionate about me bless but it's so sweet just seeing she's just yeah, she's been great. But I think having that person that's not you do it was really good for my mental health, not so fixating on it.

I couldn't agree more. And I think another thing that I've learned in my journey as well, people are far more likely to go out of their way to give a business negative feedback if they know the owner. Like I found that in my journey. I'm not sure about yours, but like you know, you could go to Cole's and get your click and collector or whatever, and they could you could be missing a couple of items or whatever. Like things like that happen all the time, and people would just be like, Oh, that's annoying or whatever, but they'll keep going back to coals like it doesn't matter. But I've found in my experience, maybe because you know, we did start as this really small business and like I was the face of it and I'm online, like people if they have an experience that doesn't meet their expectations for whatever reason, like they are far more likely to like single me out and you know, tell me that I'm the butch. Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's just a really interesting thing to experience because people, I mean, some people probably do. But where's that same energy towards the huge corporations exactly.

I couldn't agree more. And I think another thing that I've learned in my journey as well, people are far more likely to go out of their way to give a business negative feedback if they know the owner. Like I found that in my journey. I'm not sure about yours, but like you know, you could go to Cole's and get your click and collector or whatever, and they could you could be missing a couple of items or whatever. Like things like that happen all the time, and people would just be like, Oh, that's annoying or whatever, but they'll keep going back to coals like it doesn't matter. But I've found in my experience, maybe because you know, we did start as this really small business and like I was the face of it and I'm online, like people if they have an experience that doesn't meet their expectations for whatever reason, like they are far more likely to like single me out and you know, tell me that I'm the butch. Yeah. Yeah, And I think that's just a really interesting thing to experience because people, I mean, some people probably do. But where's that same energy towards the huge corporations exactly.

And I think one of the biggest things that we've been focusing on, because we've had huge growth in the past sort of eighteen to eighteen months to two years, is we definitely did let the customer service slide, and so we did receive a lot more negative feedback. And someone wrote if she would just spend less time playing with her kids and more time actually doing her job properly and I was like, Ah, the audacity of pain, like if you would actually know, and the guilt that I have because I leave my children every single day and go and work and work really long hours. But it's yeah, you just have to remind yourself that it's just all part of But the great reviews and the really kind hearted reviews I try and really focus more on. Now get a conscious decision.

And I think one of the biggest things that we've been focusing on, because we've had huge growth in the past sort of eighteen to eighteen months to two years, is we definitely did let the customer service slide, and so we did receive a lot more negative feedback. And someone wrote if she would just spend less time playing with her kids and more time actually doing her job properly and I was like, Ah, the audacity of pain, like if you would actually know, and the guilt that I have because I leave my children every single day and go and work and work really long hours. But it's yeah, you just have to remind yourself that it's just all part of But the great reviews and the really kind hearted reviews I try and really focus more on. Now get a conscious decision.

And in the same kind of breath, people that like feel connected to a brand wait the way that they would with our brands, Like they'll go out of their way to leave a negative review, But at the same time, I also find they will go out of their way to give you that positive feedback. And I think that's what we really need to focus on as owners. And yes, pay attention to the bad ones and fix any issues, yeah, and come along learning to one hundred percent.

And in the same kind of breath, people that like feel connected to a brand wait the way that they would with our brands, Like they'll go out of their way to leave a negative review, But at the same time, I also find they will go out of their way to give you that positive feedback. And I think that's what we really need to focus on as owners. And yes, pay attention to the bad ones and fix any issues, yeah, and come along learning to one hundred percent.

But I find that the loyal people, they will go out of their way to even We've just dealt with another copycat for one of our brands, which happens all the time. Yeah, we are business, but the amount of people, you know, I was once they relaunched this product flooded with DMS saying have you seen this? Are you okay, And it's just nice to see the other end of you know, the really the loyal people that are just loving and loving the brand. And I think what you and I both have in common is we take people along with the journey. Yes, And how.

But I find that the loyal people, they will go out of their way to even We've just dealt with another copycat for one of our brands, which happens all the time. Yeah, we are business, but the amount of people, you know, I was once they relaunched this product flooded with DMS saying have you seen this? Are you okay, And it's just nice to see the other end of you know, the really the loyal people that are just loving and loving the brand. And I think what you and I both have in common is we take people along with the journey. Yes, And how.

Important do you think that is in twenty twenty four?

Important do you think that is in twenty twenty four?

So important? Yeah, all of my products really have gone along my life cycle. So you know my insulin resistance, being pre diabetic, created a health food company, then was going through infertility, created a pregnancy safe skin care and then now I get really sick during my pregnancy, so I get HG. So I'm vomiting like thirty to forty times during my pregnant our day and it's just wild. I didn't even know that that could even happen. And yeah, I created many and me because I wanted to help people. Yeah, and it's sort of everything happens, you know, along my journey and I try and fix the problem through products, and so I think people really have gone along with that journey with me, and it just makes them relate a lot more to the product because I show real life.

So important? Yeah, all of my products really have gone along my life cycle. So you know my insulin resistance, being pre diabetic, created a health food company, then was going through infertility, created a pregnancy safe skin care and then now I get really sick during my pregnancy, so I get HG. So I'm vomiting like thirty to forty times during my pregnant our day and it's just wild. I didn't even know that that could even happen. And yeah, I created many and me because I wanted to help people. Yeah, and it's sort of everything happens, you know, along my journey and I try and fix the problem through products, and so I think people really have gone along with that journey with me, and it just makes them relate a lot more to the product because I show real life.

And so do you Going back to like if we were to launch our businesses today, like I speak to a lot of people who are like not in business yet, and you hear so much about like personal brand and storytelling. I feel like with how saturated every market is now, Like, I think it's one thing to have an amazing product, Like obviously you're going to need to have an amazing product, but I think the story of your brand and business also like equally plays part and like getting that sale.

And so do you Going back to like if we were to launch our businesses today, like I speak to a lot of people who are like not in business yet, and you hear so much about like personal brand and storytelling. I feel like with how saturated every market is now, Like, I think it's one thing to have an amazing product, Like obviously you're going to need to have an amazing product, but I think the story of your brand and business also like equally plays part and like getting that sale.

Yeah, and it's about staying truly or why the majority of people that I know they start a business for a reason, And I think it's that storytelling. I wish I had taken more photos of the early days. Took back at it, I'm like, why didn't I take I was embarrassed. Yeah, and even like why didn't I take video? I only took photos?

Yeah, and it's about staying truly or why the majority of people that I know they start a business for a reason, And I think it's that storytelling. I wish I had taken more photos of the early days. Took back at it, I'm like, why didn't I take I was embarrassed. Yeah, and even like why didn't I take video? I only took photos?

Was that?

Was that?

And so I think that showing that journey and the evolution of you as a person, you as a business owner, and your brand, it all sort of plays hand in hand. And so even if you just document it and you think, oh, no one's going to be interested.

And so I think that showing that journey and the evolution of you as a person, you as a business owner, and your brand, it all sort of plays hand in hand. And so even if you just document it and you think, oh, no one's going to be interested.

You can just keep it in your camera roll, keep it in your phone. Yeah, you never know. I'm the same I have a couple of photos that I've kept at the top of my camera role because I've probably had six phones in between. Yeah, men and now Yeah, but in the top of my camera rolls just a couple of photos of me in my shed ye, with my dog, with your sausage dogs. Yeah, with me, yeah, packing the orders and that's all I have. And then my friend Wade, he would come and help me in my shed and so he's got a couple of time lapse videos that he did of him packing. And I'm like, we need to savor this content because why did we not do more? Yeah, but I guess like the internet was so different back then. Yeah, that was seven years ago for me, and it wasn't There was no such thing as Instagram reels.

You can just keep it in your camera roll, keep it in your phone. Yeah, you never know. I'm the same I have a couple of photos that I've kept at the top of my camera role because I've probably had six phones in between. Yeah, men and now Yeah, but in the top of my camera rolls just a couple of photos of me in my shed ye, with my dog, with your sausage dogs. Yeah, with me, yeah, packing the orders and that's all I have. And then my friend Wade, he would come and help me in my shed and so he's got a couple of time lapse videos that he did of him packing. And I'm like, we need to savor this content because why did we not do more? Yeah, but I guess like the internet was so different back then. Yeah, that was seven years ago for me, and it wasn't There was no such thing as Instagram reels.

No, it was just photos. Its insta It's just wild.

No, it was just photos. Its insta It's just wild.

But yeah, to any owners out there or aspiring business owners, take it from both of us. Document all the little things, even if you're too nervous or embarrassed to post it online. Like capture that and just keep it in that camera role because you never know, you know, seven years down the track what you might be looking back on, ye, and it's really important to keep that.

But yeah, to any owners out there or aspiring business owners, take it from both of us. Document all the little things, even if you're too nervous or embarrassed to post it online. Like capture that and just keep it in that camera role because you never know, you know, seven years down the track what you might be looking back on, ye, and it's really important to keep that.

And also the things that go wrong yoo. I remember, so when we first launched beauty Bites. One of the packaging for our apple and cinnamon came out fluo green.

And also the things that go wrong yoo. I remember, so when we first launched beauty Bites. One of the packaging for our apple and cinnamon came out fluo green.

I think I remember you talking about this on social media.

I think I remember you talking about this on social media.

Maybe, Oh my goodness, it was and now like I laugh. But it was the most stressful time for us because we were crunching on deadline. We had retailers to supple to and it came back fluro. Was it meant to be like pale green, like pastel? All the colors are really muted and pastel, and it was very much that color scheme back then too, And it came out. I was like, I don't, I can't. I can't actually launch this and just all of those things, and I look back at photos and I just laugh, going I was so stressed back then. But I could have just launched. It would have been fun.

Maybe, Oh my goodness, it was and now like I laugh. But it was the most stressful time for us because we were crunching on deadline. We had retailers to supple to and it came back fluro. Was it meant to be like pale green, like pastel? All the colors are really muted and pastel, and it was very much that color scheme back then too, And it came out. I was like, I don't, I can't. I can't actually launch this and just all of those things, and I look back at photos and I just laugh, going I was so stressed back then. But I could have just launched. It would have been fun.

I could have done a fun marketing game around Yeah, marketing campaign around it. What did you end up doing? Did you just remake the packaging?

I could have done a fun marketing game around Yeah, marketing campaign around it. What did you end up doing? Did you just remake the packaging?

Yeah, they put a rush on it and we had to delay things and yeah, and then.

Yeah, they put a rush on it and we had to delay things and yeah, and then.

You probably had to air ship it. Yeah, all that fun stuff, the nice air shipping costs.

You probably had to air ship it. Yeah, all that fun stuff, the nice air shipping costs.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So takeaways from this is double and triple check your packaging. If you're making something in the box or in a packet, yeah, pre sample that and sample it again, get one from the bulk and check it's all good.

So takeaways from this is double and triple check your packaging. If you're making something in the box or in a packet, yeah, pre sample that and sample it again, get one from the bulk and check it's all good.

So we even had a huge issue with our barcodes.

So we even had a huge issue with our barcodes.

Haha.

Haha.

So one of our when we're in coals, one of our flavors had the same barcode as one of the other flavors. Yeah, and so we're like, why we got such high scans for this and low scans for this. And it wasn't until an old employee I sort of picked up, Oh, it was duplicated of the die line and not actually done correctly right, and it wasn't checked off properly. And I'm like, oh, that's a huge error, and that costs me a lot of money.

So one of our when we're in coals, one of our flavors had the same barcode as one of the other flavors. Yeah, and so we're like, why we got such high scans for this and low scans for this. And it wasn't until an old employee I sort of picked up, Oh, it was duplicated of the die line and not actually done correctly right, and it wasn't checked off properly. And I'm like, oh, that's a huge error, and that costs me a lot of money.

Yeah, it's the tinest little thing. It can cost a lot. I even remember. So for the first few years of Fate, we were obviously like small. We didn't even have barcodes, which I think every business owner goes through that phase.

Yeah, it's the tinest little thing. It can cost a lot. I even remember. So for the first few years of Fate, we were obviously like small. We didn't even have barcodes, which I think every business owner goes through that phase.

Barcods are really confusing too, Oh they are because GS one, It's just it does my head in I can't understand still I now understand it, but I just remember just wrapping my head around that.

Barcods are really confusing too, Oh they are because GS one, It's just it does my head in I can't understand still I now understand it, but I just remember just wrapping my head around that.

So I just let AJ do all the barcodes. I don't get it. But for so many years there, we didn't have barcodes on our products. So our entire packaging pros, like packing the orders was just off our eyes. Yeah, and so we were like the customers ordered five different things, let's say, yep, we'd be going and finding those five things, bring them over to the packing table, having a look. You know, we've got lots of sizes and we're taking right right right, yep, correct, correct, pack it up. And like for years there, like the amount of times that we would send out the wrong size to a customer or the wrong color, like it it costs thousands, like in like returning it back and sending it back out again kind of thing. And it was just nuts that we didn't think, oh, there's probably a better way to do this. And we would then implement all these crazy ways of like trying to get better at manually checking, so like one person would pick it, then the next person would check it, and then we would even like highlight it in certain colors so we know who checked it, like just to be like if there's a mistake and it's a pink eyelighter, we knew it was this person. Yeah, and then we got stamped with our name on it just so many yeah, like packed by AJ then we would know who made the mistake. Yeah, when instead we could have just got bar codes.

So I just let AJ do all the barcodes. I don't get it. But for so many years there, we didn't have barcodes on our products. So our entire packaging pros, like packing the orders was just off our eyes. Yeah, and so we were like the customers ordered five different things, let's say, yep, we'd be going and finding those five things, bring them over to the packing table, having a look. You know, we've got lots of sizes and we're taking right right right, yep, correct, correct, pack it up. And like for years there, like the amount of times that we would send out the wrong size to a customer or the wrong color, like it it costs thousands, like in like returning it back and sending it back out again kind of thing. And it was just nuts that we didn't think, oh, there's probably a better way to do this. And we would then implement all these crazy ways of like trying to get better at manually checking, so like one person would pick it, then the next person would check it, and then we would even like highlight it in certain colors so we know who checked it, like just to be like if there's a mistake and it's a pink eyelighter, we knew it was this person. Yeah, and then we got stamped with our name on it just so many yeah, like packed by AJ then we would know who made the mistake. Yeah, when instead we could have just got bar codes.

Yeah. But it's all of these things that happen in growth, and that's been I reckon. Most of my learnings have happened in the past two years because we've experienced such huge growth and at least, you know, you learn hard and fast, and you you know, have to pivot and make changes. And I recently got diagnosed with ADHD, and I now know that, like, my brain really doesn't handle change very well, and so I was really being I was trying to resist this change that needed to happen within the business, And now understanding a lot more about how my brain works, I'm like, Okay, I can deal with this change because of X Y Z And Yeah, it's just it's really fascinating looking at how we've adapted with growth.

Yeah. But it's all of these things that happen in growth, and that's been I reckon. Most of my learnings have happened in the past two years because we've experienced such huge growth and at least, you know, you learn hard and fast, and you you know, have to pivot and make changes. And I recently got diagnosed with ADHD, and I now know that, like, my brain really doesn't handle change very well, and so I was really being I was trying to resist this change that needed to happen within the business, And now understanding a lot more about how my brain works, I'm like, Okay, I can deal with this change because of X Y Z And Yeah, it's just it's really fascinating looking at how we've adapted with growth.

Absolutely, And like you said when we were chatting earlier on in the episode, how you look back at when you were in those early days and you were pitching to local cafes and rolling the balls yourself and how you think now that's your worst nightmare, and like you don't know how you did that. I very much feel the same about us and the way that we used to pack our orders and put a stamp on it with our name and highlight with our certain color highlighter. But I think that's what business is. Like you, for some reason are willing to do that shit in the early days to get to the point where we're at now. But I look back at the way we used to do everything and just think I could never do that again. But like, you live and you learn, and that's just business. People always ask me this question. I'm curious to know your answer. What would you say has been one of the most challenging parts of your journey or what do you think is one of the most challenging parts of being in business?

Absolutely, And like you said when we were chatting earlier on in the episode, how you look back at when you were in those early days and you were pitching to local cafes and rolling the balls yourself and how you think now that's your worst nightmare, and like you don't know how you did that. I very much feel the same about us and the way that we used to pack our orders and put a stamp on it with our name and highlight with our certain color highlighter. But I think that's what business is. Like you, for some reason are willing to do that shit in the early days to get to the point where we're at now. But I look back at the way we used to do everything and just think I could never do that again. But like, you live and you learn, and that's just business. People always ask me this question. I'm curious to know your answer. What would you say has been one of the most challenging parts of your journey or what do you think is one of the most challenging parts of being in business?

It depends at what stage you had asked me this, because lately, staffing and culture has just been something that we've been so focused on, because if you've got bad culture work, it's not enjoyable, and staff can make or break you as a business. And I think right now we I've hired a friend who's funny. A few years ago, I was like, you are not ever going to come work. That's my rule, right, I know, I know I listened to one of your things. I'm like, I've gone and hired my friend, like my.

It depends at what stage you had asked me this, because lately, staffing and culture has just been something that we've been so focused on, because if you've got bad culture work, it's not enjoyable, and staff can make or break you as a business. And I think right now we I've hired a friend who's funny. A few years ago, I was like, you are not ever going to come work. That's my rule, right, I know, I know I listened to one of your things. I'm like, I've gone and hired my friend, like my.

Life, no family, no friends.

Life, no family, no friends.

Actually have a contract a clause in our contract that says, if she hits the fan, we're going to go to counseling with my friend. Because I was too worried, and yeah, she's been with me for six months and it's been awesome.

Actually have a contract a clause in our contract that says, if she hits the fan, we're going to go to counseling with my friend. Because I was too worried, and yeah, she's been with me for six months and it's been awesome.

Oh good, thank god. I think it's like, if you're going to be like, because my friends are like not all my friends, but some friends of friends that I know, they're like, oh, they'd be so great for your business. But I know that this is your rule, like no friends and family. But I think the reason why I guess I have my walls up regarding working with friends and family is because I did it in the early days when I didn't know any better kind of thing. Where it's like now, if I was for any reason, you know, to hire a friend like I would have so many more boundaries in place now, whereas back then I was like, yeah, let's hire friends and feel that they'd be so fun, And it absolutely shot me in the foot and It's so funny because I look back at the first girl we ever hired, and she was incredible and was with us for so long and she really became such a close friend.

Oh good, thank god. I think it's like, if you're going to be like, because my friends are like not all my friends, but some friends of friends that I know, they're like, oh, they'd be so great for your business. But I know that this is your rule, like no friends and family. But I think the reason why I guess I have my walls up regarding working with friends and family is because I did it in the early days when I didn't know any better kind of thing. Where it's like now, if I was for any reason, you know, to hire a friend like I would have so many more boundaries in place now, whereas back then I was like, yeah, let's hire friends and feel that they'd be so fun, And it absolutely shot me in the foot and It's so funny because I look back at the first girl we ever hired, and she was incredible and was with us for so long and she really became such a close friend.

But I look, we're still for a good way, way in a good way, in a good way. But I think it's just funny because if I had hired my friend Ali now back then, it would have been so different and it would never have worked. But now I knew, Okay, I know your skill sets, your people and culture. We've got a really bad culture going on. There's a few bad eggs. We really need to, you know, figure out what's going on. And she came in and it was just we've just got the most incredible bunch of people now and it's just so enjoyable to come to work. But you're always going to have, you know, people not liking other people. And I am the hard so hard to manage people. I think that the biggest thing that I am learning at the moment is how to actually be a boss, because we've gone from you know, three to four people to over twenty five staff in you know, a year and a half, and it is busy, and you understand, and I think it's just about Okay, I walk in and I'm pretty much dealing with people and their emotions and what's going on and how they are, and you know, what mindset they're in and how busy they are. And I'm really fixating on that because we're not at the stage where I can hire multiple managers to manage, so I'm very much managing. And I was really struggling for a while until I was catching up with one of the girls that I owned, Francesca Jewelry, Hannah, and she said, you need to do these HBDI brain quizzers and analyze everyone's brains that work with you to figure out how they operate under stress, if they're super creative and you know, if they're very much in number, or they're very much an implementer. Because I'm very much not an implementer. I'm creative and I make my decisions based off numbers. And so I started doing these quizzes with everyone and we did this analysis and it really helped me understand a if some of my girls, if they have something going on in their personal life, they may flatline, so they might be really quiet. And so now I kind of am learning more about how to deal with my staff in the challenges that they face. Or if someone's really really stressed, they may not be as productive. So how do I manage them by still being in a high a high sort of impact environment, but then reducing their stress load a little bit. And so I'm really finding that helps. And then it's also helping with the hiring. So I now know who I need to be underneath me or who I need to hire for different departments because I know based on the skill sets that we're lacking. And it's just been so interesting to learn about it.

But I look, we're still for a good way, way in a good way, in a good way. But I think it's just funny because if I had hired my friend Ali now back then, it would have been so different and it would never have worked. But now I knew, Okay, I know your skill sets, your people and culture. We've got a really bad culture going on. There's a few bad eggs. We really need to, you know, figure out what's going on. And she came in and it was just we've just got the most incredible bunch of people now and it's just so enjoyable to come to work. But you're always going to have, you know, people not liking other people. And I am the hard so hard to manage people. I think that the biggest thing that I am learning at the moment is how to actually be a boss, because we've gone from you know, three to four people to over twenty five staff in you know, a year and a half, and it is busy, and you understand, and I think it's just about Okay, I walk in and I'm pretty much dealing with people and their emotions and what's going on and how they are, and you know, what mindset they're in and how busy they are. And I'm really fixating on that because we're not at the stage where I can hire multiple managers to manage, so I'm very much managing. And I was really struggling for a while until I was catching up with one of the girls that I owned, Francesca Jewelry, Hannah, and she said, you need to do these HBDI brain quizzers and analyze everyone's brains that work with you to figure out how they operate under stress, if they're super creative and you know, if they're very much in number, or they're very much an implementer. Because I'm very much not an implementer. I'm creative and I make my decisions based off numbers. And so I started doing these quizzes with everyone and we did this analysis and it really helped me understand a if some of my girls, if they have something going on in their personal life, they may flatline, so they might be really quiet. And so now I kind of am learning more about how to deal with my staff in the challenges that they face. Or if someone's really really stressed, they may not be as productive. So how do I manage them by still being in a high a high sort of impact environment, but then reducing their stress load a little bit. And so I'm really finding that helps. And then it's also helping with the hiring. So I now know who I need to be underneath me or who I need to hire for different departments because I know based on the skill sets that we're lacking. And it's just been so interesting to learn about it.

To me, like staffing is like the most challenging part of business for me personally. I'm sure a lot of other business owners will absolutely agree. And like you've been saying, like it's just so interesting, I think it's just staffing is like the most unexpected part of business.

To me, like staffing is like the most challenging part of business for me personally. I'm sure a lot of other business owners will absolutely agree. And like you've been saying, like it's just so interesting, I think it's just staffing is like the most unexpected part of business.

And I say this all the time. I never started a job. I never started the business to become a boss. I never in my wildest dreams, but I would have twenty five people working for me.

And I say this all the time. I never started a job. I never started the business to become a boss. I never in my wildest dreams, but I would have twenty five people working for me.

Ever, I know it just catches you off guard. And I think you learn a lot personally as well about who you are when you become the boss of someone. And like you said, like it's so personal to every single individual employee, And I almost think, like I want to give credit to like millennial bosses because I think I don't know about like back in the day, but I think us as millennial bosses, we're so like more aware and mindful of staff and everyone's different personalities, Whereas I don't know, I can't say for sure, but I feel like back in the day, maybe when you know, our parents were young, I don't think this level of attention would have been there. Like I think it'd just been like if you're in a bad mood, harden the fuck up and get on with work kind of thing. Whereas we're out here as bosses being like, Okay, this person needs their feedback given to them in this type of way, but this other person actually is the opposite of that person, even though they're in the same team. And so it's really interesting for us to train like our managers that are then going to manage people. And we have a way that we manage people at FATE. And whilst we have like a style of management, you can't then just go and implement that to every single staff member because then you've got to work out every single staff member's personality and how best to manage that person, and that's just the most unsuspecting part of business.

Ever, I know it just catches you off guard. And I think you learn a lot personally as well about who you are when you become the boss of someone. And like you said, like it's so personal to every single individual employee, And I almost think, like I want to give credit to like millennial bosses because I think I don't know about like back in the day, but I think us as millennial bosses, we're so like more aware and mindful of staff and everyone's different personalities, Whereas I don't know, I can't say for sure, but I feel like back in the day, maybe when you know, our parents were young, I don't think this level of attention would have been there. Like I think it'd just been like if you're in a bad mood, harden the fuck up and get on with work kind of thing. Whereas we're out here as bosses being like, Okay, this person needs their feedback given to them in this type of way, but this other person actually is the opposite of that person, even though they're in the same team. And so it's really interesting for us to train like our managers that are then going to manage people. And we have a way that we manage people at FATE. And whilst we have like a style of management, you can't then just go and implement that to every single staff member because then you've got to work out every single staff member's personality and how best to manage that person, and that's just the most unsuspecting part of business.

For me. It's just wild learning all of that. It's wild. And I found myself before I hired my friend Ali, spending so much time just manage people, and it was being so unproductive for me because I didn't know what I was doing. And so since she's come on, she's taught me a lot about how to be actually a leader and how to manage people, and then learning about how all of my team operate because they are I've got. I'm so lucky with my staff. They are and I often go on podcasts and I speak about myself and the business, but without my staff, I would never be where I am, and we're nothing. I mean, I literally had nine months off times two with my pregnancies because I was so unwell, and my team held down the fort. And it's just they are just so incredible, and I wish they all. I think they all know how much I appreciate them, but I wish they truly knew just how incredible they are. But it is really intense trying to learn all of different personalities, and once you get a bad egg. It's really hard to figure out what the problem is, who the problem is, and once you figure out what the problem is, what to do with that.

For me. It's just wild learning all of that. It's wild. And I found myself before I hired my friend Ali, spending so much time just manage people, and it was being so unproductive for me because I didn't know what I was doing. And so since she's come on, she's taught me a lot about how to be actually a leader and how to manage people, and then learning about how all of my team operate because they are I've got. I'm so lucky with my staff. They are and I often go on podcasts and I speak about myself and the business, but without my staff, I would never be where I am, and we're nothing. I mean, I literally had nine months off times two with my pregnancies because I was so unwell, and my team held down the fort. And it's just they are just so incredible, and I wish they all. I think they all know how much I appreciate them, but I wish they truly knew just how incredible they are. But it is really intense trying to learn all of different personalities, and once you get a bad egg. It's really hard to figure out what the problem is, who the problem is, and once you figure out what the problem is, what to do with that.

I know, and that's the hardest thing as well. I've experienced that myself, Like you have one rotten egg in the cart, and then the whole thing's off kind of thing. And it's I feel funny talking about this because you never want it to come across in a way where it's like bitchy or being nasty or whatever. But like, your business can severely struggle if you just have one one wrong hire in the mix, and then like everyone can begin hating their jobs and not wanting to show up to work. And then you're like, oh my god, what do I do? You know, like you can't just fire someone for having a bad attitude that people don't like. Yeah, so then you've got to like go through all of these hoops and it can be super stressful if you're watching your team kind of suffer. But again, it's just like a part of business that you're going to deal with. And I always stress this in my pod, like having the right people in the right roles is everything for a business, especially a small business that's growing. I can't imagine how many businesses are out there that you know, maybe they've hired friends or family or whatever, and.

I know, and that's the hardest thing as well. I've experienced that myself, Like you have one rotten egg in the cart, and then the whole thing's off kind of thing. And it's I feel funny talking about this because you never want it to come across in a way where it's like bitchy or being nasty or whatever. But like, your business can severely struggle if you just have one one wrong hire in the mix, and then like everyone can begin hating their jobs and not wanting to show up to work. And then you're like, oh my god, what do I do? You know, like you can't just fire someone for having a bad attitude that people don't like. Yeah, so then you've got to like go through all of these hoops and it can be super stressful if you're watching your team kind of suffer. But again, it's just like a part of business that you're going to deal with. And I always stress this in my pod, like having the right people in the right roles is everything for a business, especially a small business that's growing. I can't imagine how many businesses are out there that you know, maybe they've hired friends or family or whatever, and.

It's just like been the worst thing ever.

It's just like been the worst thing ever.

Yeah, and it's fully stopping the business from growing, and these people get stuck and if and again that's why I'm so like wary of friends and family because then you don't have the boundaries and then you're like, oh well, I'll just let them keep going because that's my auntie.

Yeah, and it's fully stopping the business from growing, and these people get stuck and if and again that's why I'm so like wary of friends and family because then you don't have the boundaries and then you're like, oh well, I'll just let them keep going because that's my auntie.

Like you know. And that's been the biggest thing is I set very clear expectations and I am not necessarily managing them, but it is such a risk that I have taken on. And I know, well, we could be having another chat in a year and like how's your friend of yet? But I think that they care so much about myself and the business and I think so far it's going great. So everyone touched their head. But yeah, I think that even just the hiring process. I listened to one of the episodes where you're talking about the different hiring processes. I remember I just have a zoom interview with someone and then go call them back because I would be so excited you're hired, yea, And like all of those people, well not all of them, but some of those people were the ones that weren't the best for the business. I know. But now we've got a very rigorous hiring process.