Creating Boundaries that Align with the Life You Want with Terri Cole

Published Jul 5, 2021, 7:00 AM

It is the one we have been waiting for! The episode all about boundaries! This week. Kat (@kat.defatta) welcomes Terri Cole (@terricole) to the podcast. And y'all, she is not just a licensed psychotherapist she is a boundaries expert who recently came out with a new book called Boundary Boss: The Essential Guide to Talk True, Be Seen, and (Finally) Live Free. Terri’s mission is help women stop living out learned boundary behaviors that don’t serve them and this episode is the perfect way to start looking at where you may need to adjust the boundaries in your life. Get ready... you're going to want to take notes during this one!

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Hi guys, and welcome back to another new episode of You Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat and I am your host. If you are new to the show, welcome, So glad you're here. Like always, I want to remind you guys that You Need Therapy is a podcast that I host. Yes, I'm a licensed therapist, but on this podcast, I am more just a human who's wanting to bring you some conversations that might help impact how you go out and live your life to the very fullest potential that you can. This is not therapy. It's on the substitute for therapy, but you know it might encourage you to go get some therapy. So today I'm super pumped because we have a really awesome guest here to talk and teach us some things about nothing other than boundaries, which that is something that I get questions about all the time. You guys have been begging for an episode on boundaries specifically for a while, and I have been hiding this one in my back pocket. So I want to introduce you to the guest I have. Her name is Terry Cole, and she is a licensed psychotherapist and she's a global leading relationship expert and author of the book Boundary Boss, The Essential Guide to Talk, True, Be Seen, and finally Live Free. I can't wait to get my hands on one of these books because after my conversation with her, I mean, I want to read everything she writes. She's amazing, she's gentle, she's smart, she's strong, and uh, she is just a good human who's out to help people, and those are the kind of people I want. On the show, Terry says her mission is to help women stop living out of learned boundary behaviors that don't serve them. And you know, I don't think this has to be just women. I think this gets to be men and women and all the kinds of people that are in the world. So today you're going to hear a lot. We talked, We kind of bounced all over the place. But what I want this to be is a starting off point for you guys. If you're connecting with some of the stuff, then maybe you get her book, or maybe you talk about it in your own therapy process, or maybe you just start thinking about how boundaries have served or not served you. But Terry is awesome, and I could have talked to her for about twenty years, but you know, we had one hour, So I hope you enjoyed this conversation and I hope you learned something. I hope it touches you in some way, and you know, I hope you guys are having the day you need to have. Here is my conversation with Terry Cole. I'm so excited this morning to uh be having this conversation with my guest, Terry Cole. Hello, well I can't thanks for having me. Yeah, so we're definitely gonna talk about a lot of stuff, including boundaries. But I was just doing a little bit of research on you, and I discovered something that I want to kind of start with. And it seems like being a therapist because you're a psychotherapist and you're an expert in boundaries and you do a lot with relationships. But I found that this was your second career. Okay. I would love to hear you talk because this is something that I hear in my office all the time. Therefore, I know it's a huge thing in the world of people feeling like they're stuck in a career but it's too late to switch, which is going to round out about boundaries anyway, But I want to hear you talk about what that was like for you, in that process of knowing there's something more. I think that, especially if you become successful, it's really hard. For me. I was sort of, you know, according to my father at the time, I was like at the top of my entertainment game. He's like, wait, what are you doing? Why would you do that? And I was like, hey, there's no good time. But for me, it was a process of my own therapeutic journey, my own life journey. I stopped drinking when I was, you know, young. I started therapy at nineteen, stopped drinking at twenty one. So I was like, I, it's very wide open. I had a very busy social life prior to that UM from twelve to twenty one. Trust me, I got it all in. But then I started the therapeutic process, my own process, and I just couldn't believe it. I just couldn't believe it was like a secret. I was like, how come nobody told me that. It's not like we're stuck with the hand that we're dealt with. We can change anything. That literally we're all just making this up as we go. That was such a profound realization at such a young age. I was like, oh my god, it doesn't matter what came before me, it doesn't matter my family of origin. Like I can actually carve out my own way in this world and nothing is written in stone. And that was incredibly liberating. But of course I needed to figure out in what way was I getting in my own way for these things. So I went through the therapeutic process, got into entertainment, loved it, and hid entertainment the way I did everything, which is just like I'll just work longer, hard more than other people, and I will find my way. So my ambition was something that I always could count on because I knew how to work hard and I wasn't afraid to. And yet what I didn't know is that my ambition wasn't really driven by my passion or necessarily or I just want to get to the top. Really, through the therapeutic process, I realized I thought I was running towards something, you know what I mean, Cat, I was like, I'm going to my goal. What I realized in therapy is I was actually running away from something, and that really a lot of my ambition was fear and proving myself. I had a dad who had a bunch of daughters and probably should have had a son. I was his fourth daughter, so I was really proving some gender thing, like I'm going to be more successful than any boy you could have had. And it got to the point within my career where I kept thinking, well, the next job, the next money, the more celebrity clients, the more travel private, the more things that that was going to really provide the feeling I was seeking. And then I got you know, you get to the top of the mountain, so to speak. Listen. I wasn't like, you know, I wasn't running the world, but you know I was doing well, especially at my age. I was running the New York office of a bi coastal talent agency, negotiating contracts or supermodels and celebrities. So you know, you definitely looked like a shiny job to others, for sure. But when I got there and the feeling I was hoping would be there, then I really had to be like, Okay, you don't want to do this, but what do you want to do? And really I had to just be honest and say, all I care about is the mental health of my clients. All I'm doing is getting people into therapy. Women into eating disorder clinics, drug treatment clinics. This is literally all I care about. So I need to leave this job. Before I started super sucking at this job and before I I behave like lower than my own professional integrity, and it was scary, and I probably knew I needed to leave. I would say at least two and a half years or maybe three before I did. So anyone who was thinking about leaving, like, trust me, I'm not saying, hey, think about it. It's easy, but you can definitely do it, because here's the thing. Every moment that we waste being like, I don't know, you know the things I considered, right, can I be poor again? The answer was yep. Money was not the thing. I always want money for freedom. I wass want money to do good works. But I never was like a person who like I never was like, oh maybe I want to buy a hummer or something like. And I'm not judging anyone was an hummer. I'm just saying that wasn't for me, right. It wasn't those things. Money was freedom to continue my education, to travel, to have life experiences. So I was like, yeah, okay, I'm not necessarily because you know, you would have thought, after all those years of doing that that it would have had a lot of money in the bank, but I literally had done so I just spent it all traveling and doing what I wanted to. I'm way better now with money, but I just didn't care then. So I was like, wow, I think I have nine dollars in the bank, So I'm gonna quit my job. I'm not quitting therapy. I'm not quitting my gym. So I figured out how to make enough money to pay my rent because it was rent stabilized with nine bucks at the time. That unbelievable. I was on West Street because obviously now that studio apartment with the beautiful skylights is probably three grand a month first, right, can you imagine? It was months? Anyway, I figured I had to make enough money for my therapy, my gym, and my rent. I didn't leave like I was going to leave. I tried to leave and they were like no. So I actually stayed on running the agency remotely for the entire time that I was in grad school at m y U, which was an accelerated program. It was crazy. I have no idea how I did any of that now I think about it, I'm like, what, how did that happen? But it was amazing, and I was in this learning curve of I was so lit up. I was so energized by what I was learning. I knew it. I took one course. I took two courses non matriculating before I like committed to the full thing. I took um it was too psychology courses, Oh, abnormal psych one and two. I was like, dude, I want to do this where And I was for the first time in so long, I was so excited. I was like, oh my god, I can do something amazing in the world. There's got to be something more valuable. I can be doing the making supermodels rich or even though I love them and they're lovely, but they really didn't need me to be doing that. And it felt like this ship cannot be my drama. It's something else has to be. So anyway, that's why I left. That's how I left. Does that help? Yeah? No, that's amazing. And you know when I heard you talking, and even as you're getting to the part of the story where you went to school, it's like you can tell I felt something different, Like I never was somebody who loved going to school every day in college. But then when you turn that corner and you're starting to go to learn about things that you actually care about, it's like something's lit up. And the cool thing is, I'm lit up by learning about the mind and the body and psychology and the brain and all that, and so are you. And then some people are lit up by learning about science and and what anatomy and all of that, and some people are lit up by marketing business strategies, and none of them are better than the other. But it's important to be able to pay attention to this lights me up, that's something signaling this is where my feet need to be right now. Absolutely, And you know part of if people are listening or watching or whatever, where they're like, you know, I'm not lit up by what I'm doing, but I don't know what I am lit up by. I always say, what magazines do you read? What television shows do you watch? What would you do for free? What are you doing when time is like that transcendent experience where you're like, oh my god, three hours just went by. What that would lead you? You know? That's I mean. I actually worked in the garment center before I became I was an entertainment and that's how I did it. I looked at every single day I got on the friging bus. I had that woman's very daily that I never cracked open at one time did I read that daily paper because I didn't freaking care. That's it. I didn't care. And I was like, all right, but then, what do you care about? What do you read? I was like People, Magazine, Vanity, Fair, Variety, even the trades. I was reading long before I was in enter payment because I was so interested in people's stories. And I was like, I don't know how anyone gets a job in this business, but that's what I want to do. And then someone I knew, my boyfriend at the time, was like, oh my god, remember Jim, she's working at this. I think you'd be a good talent agent. I was like, is that a freaking job somebody can do? Because sign me up if it is. And that is really how I got out of the garment center to do that. But it also requires a certain amount of taking a risk and being really mindful that you don't end up in some kind of financial handcuffs that you're not living so close to, like you're not maxed out financially and that I find with a lot of my clients over there twenty years a minute therapist is something that if you're living too above your means or too close to it, you really don't have freedom unless you're me and you just quit anyway. But I mean my feeling is I wouldn't suggest that to anyone, you know, so you've got to be mindful of like do you have money in the bank, so that if you did want to quit. Because I knew becoming a psychotherapist, I wasn't just going to be like, Hi, here's my plaque and now I'm making two hundred grand a year like and then that wasn't what happened. You have to build your practice. But I knew I could do other things. I was like, well, I'll teach. My friend was like, have you ever taught before? I'm like, no, no, but I'm going to teach acting because I don't want to. Every agent teaches once they're not an agent anymore. So that's what I did at m U. I think also the ability for you to stay in your job and go to school, I think that is something too for people to think about, is how do I work on this thing? That lights me up, while I still have stability to be able to work on this thing that lights me up. So I think that's one avenue. It doesn't have to be the like fairy tale dream in the movie where the person just quits their job and the next day lands into a perfect situation. Doesn't look that way, I can't. I totally agree. But I also think a really powerful reframe is looking at your day job now if it's not what you wanted to be, and see it as like the best survival job. Going start banking money, like start really being like I'm going to build a net so that I can figure out what it is I want to do, and and taking those steps. Instead of looking at your job like I'm trapped, look at it like just a money factory, just just money. Put it in the bank, give yourself some liberation, and then look at where how do I need to live? What is essential in my living situation? And listen, it's a little bit more difficult, of course, more very much more difficult if people are married and kids, if you're the sole provider. I get all of those things, and yet there's still away because in the end of the end, on your deathbed, no one is going to be like, wow, I super wish I spent more hours at a job that are freaking hated, Like nobody is saying that. So yes, maybe it's hard, yes, maybe loans, yes, maybe whatever, but you can figure it out, you really can well. And that speaks to internal boundaries and being able to like have a goal. And then when I say I'm going to do something, do it. Because something that I know you talk about in your work and it in your book is and you mentioned it earlier is choices, having a choice. And so many times it feels like I hear and I've I've been here in certain parts of my life before. I can't. I can't, I can't, I can't. But really, what they're saying is I won't. I won't make that deal with myself. I won't set that boundary with myself. It might be too hard in my head. But there's all these roadblocks, but they don't have to be roadblocks. So how do you suggest and how do you work with people around that who just in their head, they've made up their minds at whatever it is that is stuck in my life, I'm stuck here. How do you help them switch that well, part of it is if we're stuck, there's a reason so and psychological. So I have this little tool that will give you, guys, right now that you can use and it's just asking yourself this this really simple question, which is what do I get to not face, not feel, or not experience by staying stuck here? So it's a secondary gain question, right, because we are humans are very adaptive, and if there wasn't something in it, unless there are psychological issues, unless there's a physical you know, listen, if there are other challenges. Right. This might sound simplified, but I've been using it with clients for two and a half decades and I'm telling you it is so revealing. What do I get to not face, not feel, or not experienced by staying stuck here? So quick example is I had a client who couldn't stop drinking. That meaning she wasn't traditional alcoholic, she was drinking a lot. This is during the pandemic, and she's she would say to me, come in, you know, we would do our session and she would say I'm going to stop drinking during the week, and I'm like, great, I'll support you in that, and then she would fail. So she would not drink Monday, and then Tuesday she would have three big girl glasses of wine at night. And I'm like, all right, so there's more to this than this, because it's not you know when people we love to be mean to ourselves and be like, if I just had more will power, it'll be great, if I just wasn't so easy. I'm like, it's not those things, trust me. So this happened two weeks in a row, and I was like, listen, let's stop setting you up to fail. What do you get to not face, not feel, and not experience by doing what you're doing right by drinking? You know? And she said I get to not face the state of my marriage. But she able to answer that immediately. No, in one session though. So in the beginning she was like, I don't know. I think I'm just I just need a break. I think I'm just stressed. I think you know. And then I was like, okay, but let's just we're gonna keep doing it, almost like a Meisner technique. I'm gonna keep asking and you're going to close your eyes allow your mind to find the answer. Because I knew there was an answer. I actually was a little bit surprised because she hadn't talked that much and she so she was in denial of how bad things had gotten in her marriage, you know, so she wasn't even really bringing it. This was the drinking was representation because it was safer. It was less threatening to be like what's wrong with me? Against ter and then being like, oh my god, I've got to own all this scrap with this guy, like I holy, so many things to do with But of course, once we got to that, then we could figure out the actual problem and get to what the solution needed to be. For first of all, I freaking love the questions you ask, because again this happens with all of us. We all have things that we do or we have all have things that we say, and a lot of times what I will say, which I'm going to use this in sessions all the time now, because what I will say is I say, what are you getting out of what you're doing? Because do not tell me that you get nothing out of drinking every day, because you wouldn't keep doing it if you didn't, like you can't, that would be a lie. There has to be a reason you're doing it. And you hear, no, I'm just worthless, or like it's just the things that you said, it's just my willpower. I get nothing. I get nothing. This sucks and I'm like, that's not true. But those questions, I mean, even in the way and the cadence to say them allow ow you to drop it into okay and even closing my eyes. If I had to answer this question a lot of times else when people are like I don't know, I'll go, well, if you did know, it's so funny. It would literally interesting. It was just going to say the exact same thing, because a lot of times we think we don't know, and yet you do. So if you do know, what would it be if you had to guess? Sometimes Like there's all different interventions as you know, of getting people to access stuff that feels threatening in a safe way of course, but I think that that you will find with your clients it is so effective because secondary gain. If we think about what is the concept of secondary gain, it is the un obvious game for staying in situations that are unwanted, whether they're within ourselves that have to do with internal boundaries, whether they're with other people. Right, So there are more emotional boundaries or physical boundaries. You know, Yeah, well I think that humans and that's where you invite a compassion into these things is as humans, we don't do things for no reason, like we're all trying to survive and whatever that looks like, and so there has to be something. The problem is then that you get to is if now I realize, why do this to avoid my marriage will shoot? Now we have to actually if you want to feel better, if you want to live a fuller life, then we have to actually look at what the actual issue is. That's probably going to take a lot more effort and pain and digging in than just stopping drinking. It's true. But what I always say, because I don't want when people discover things, especially codependence, especially Type A, especially over functioners, they feel like, holy crap, now I know this, I have to do something. I always say, listen, you don't have to do or change anything, because I know that they will get to their own readiness. But if they think that the moment they have this realization, they must take action that they are super not ready to take. I'm always like, hey, we're just gathering information. And I also say to my clients, you can choose to have these like you can have these realizations and you are always in charge because it's your life. I'm not projecting onto them what I want for them, right. I had a client once who was like in in pretty much of a loveless relationship with the guy who was a dentist. This is like the weirdest story, but it's true. And she would complain about him or whatever, and I was like, you don't have to marry they were engaged. It was like, you don't have to get married. Like, clearly, I'm not telling you something new, but you don't have to. And she was like, you know what, Terry, part of my dream was. I always wanted to marry a doctor or a dentist, so I'm definitely getting married. And I was like, cool, Then, I think we have to get clear about what you're signing on for. So this level of satisfaction that you feel today because you're getting married in two months, if the level of satisfaction you feel today will sustain you for the rest of your life, what if it never got one I owed a more you never felt want I owed a happier or more interested in this person. That's what you're signing on for. So as long as your eyes are wide open, Like, who am I to judge? If you were my daughter, my friend, my sister, of course I wouldn't want that for her. But again, that would be me judging that that was wrong. She grew up very poor. She really loved the security of being with someone with money. Like, it's not for me to judge right, and it's not for me to decide as the therapist what's right for you. Unless someone's like shooting heroin or wanting to stay in an abusive relationship, then I'm got to be like the dude, I'm out, Like, I will help you as much as I can, but I can't hang around. You know what she end up doing getting married. That speaks to the idea that as a therapist, and I think this is a common misconception with people that aren't in the field. When you go to see a therapist and you go to work on whatever you're working on, you're going to work on whatever you're going to work on. Our lives remain the same. And I might have certain morals and values and goals of for my life that I think would bring me happiness. I also realize that that's not where everybody else lands. And so, like you said, if she was your sister or your this or your that, you might interact different in those conversations and you might be more vocal. Yeah, but she's not. And we as as helpers are helping people reach what they want. If that's what she wants, that is what she wants, and that's allowed to be okay. And I say that just for anybody listening that just because you go to a therapist, it doesn't mean you're going to have to live what they consider a level of health. When it doesn't. I mean, like you said, if somebody's shooting up heroine, I'm going to say, like, we can't keep doing this, We're going to get you into treatment. But when it comes to what we want in our love lives, like, yeah, if that's what you want, that gets to be what you want. Yeah. I always say, like, as a therapist, my job is to help you get what you want in life. Yes, most people want to be happy, right, but most people want harmony, inner peace, evolution, not all though, And so I feel like, I mean I don't really have a private I mean I have a couple of hyper robile clients now, but I mean generally, my my actual private practice system that was a client who had had for a long time. Though, So some of them you just feel like I have to yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. Where you're like, I know, I'm sort of closing this part of my practice, but okay, whatever fifteen years are I fine. Okay. So I want to switch gears somewhat and talk more explicitly about just boundaries in general, because you have this awesome book Boundary Boss, and I talk about boundaries probably more than anything else because they are part of everything. So I want to start this off with how would you say or formula or define what a healthy boundary is and why are they important? Well, let's just talk about boundaries in general start with that. My definition is it basically is you knowing your preferences, your desires, your limits, and your deal breakers. So when you have healthy boundaries, you know what those things are preferences, desires, limits, deal breakers, and you have the ability to readily communicate them and when you so choose. So, because I feel like there's a lot of confusion about what it means to have good boundaries, and there's a lot of myths that you have to be mean and you have to be selfish. And what people are always misunderstanding is that someone with rigid boundaries. The world thinks that's what someone looks like when they have good boundaries. So rigid boundaries are too inflexible. My aware of the highway. That's um withdrawing. If you don't do what I want you to do, I'm going to punish you, you know. So that's not what it is. Now. The name of the book right is Boundary Boss, because the boss is someone who is masterful, and when you're masterful, you could do any and all of this with ease, with grace, with kindness, with love when appropriate. So if someone being abound your boss method you had to become bitchy, it would be called boundary bullying would be the name of the book, which it isn't. So I think that we have to look at those myths that we have been as women. I'm sorry, I don't care what country, and I put a hundred two hundred five countries. Women from two hundred five countries at this point have come through my boundary boot Camp course and nobody has ever been like, oh my god, yeah over here in Egypt, I learned all about boundaries. Nobody learned anywhere, it doesn't matter country, culture. Especially women, we are raised and praised for being to be self abandoned in codependence. Like that's it. So not only did no one teach us, this is like, you know, a language, look at healthy boundaries, like a language. You wouldn't feel bad about yourself if you were, like I really want to be fluent in Mandarin, I must be so dumb that I'm not, or I must be weak that I don't know. Get someone to teach you by this frigging book right here boundary boss book dot com. That's where you can get it with a million bonuses. It's a language that you have to learn. And then being raised as women were taught the femininity in this traditional gender normative I don't even know if that's gender normative is the right way to say it. But wait, it's like give anyone the shirt off your back. She's so nice, like being nice. It's like this highest virtue that ever exists. So we end up saying yes when we want to say no under the guys of wanting to be nice. Okay, could we just look at the facts saying yes when you want to say no? Is that nice? No? It's just fine. It's bullshit and it's also and ps I was the biggest bagary disaster in my twenties, so I judging no one where I wrote this book. The biggest tragedy and all of that though, is that people don't know us, right. Yeah, I want to take a second and just say everything you just said is, so what's the word like calming to hear and validating to hear? Because people do feel bad about themselves that that metaphor? Would you think you're dumb if you didn't know? Managine if nobody ever taught you like it's it's essentially we were raised and ought to live this way, So why should we be mad at ourselves for not living this way? So I just wanted to stop and say that I think hearing that feels very nice because this work that comes with Okay, I'm gonna learn how to set boundaries. It's really tough, and you can get really down on yourself, and it's nice to come from a place of Hey, you're learning a new language. So it's gonna take some time, and you're gonna have to practice, and you have to do it over and over, and you're gonna have to ask for help, and you're gonna have to check things. So that was just a really nice thank you for saying all of that, because that's going to be very helpful for a lot of people. I think. I want you to look at it though, anyone who's listening, anyone who's watching, everything is baby steps. And the way that I teach it in the book and the way that I teach it to my courses is that we go way in right. We learn all about your downloaded boundary blueprint. Like you, cat and me, we we all relate very specifically two boundaries because of the people who raised us, the adults in our life. So if you had a maternal impact or as I call them, who was a people pleasing there, You're like, Okay, there's my model of what I'm supposed to be. If you had a maternal impact, or who was like an ice queen who was kind of mean that people were afraid of, who was cutting or whatever, You're like, Okay, that's the way I'm supposed to be. You know, that's a boundary stuff. Yeah, And you know something I struggle with as they're so human and I love social media and I love how accessible information is now for people, including this podcast. I love all of that, but also there is the misconception with that of what it looks like to be a strong, independent woman with boundaries. It does come off as like the like boss bitch kind of thing. It's like, you don't have to be a bit to be a boss. You might look different than the people pleaser. But I think that's something that I struggle seeing a lot of it feels very I'm trying to think of an example of something I saw. I get like really hot about these things when I see them, and I want to don't post that, but it's like I like the idea behind things, like if it's not a hell yes it said no, I believe that. But also there is a way to have boundaries and not just cut people off all the time and cut things off all the time. So can you talk about like what is the difference between a healthy boundary and what's the difference between being just this rigid human being. Yes, healthy boundaries, there's a certain amount of flexibility, and we're talking about responding instead of reacting, and that's probably the key is that we have to slow down and so much of the beginning of this process of going inward and as I'm walking you through taking an inventory understanding what are your pain points because yours are different, Like where are you falling down on yourself or on your own boundaries or whatever? Where do you feel like are you a push over a peacekeeper? Actually have a free quiz that people can take it aundrey quiz dot com, and it will tell you what your archetype is, which kind of gives you a baseline of like do you lean more towards as you're saying the rigid because there's only you have rigid boundaries which are too inflexible, you have poorest boundaries which are too flexible, and then you have healthy boundaries. So we're always seeking to be somewhere in the middle. Right. I take into consideration everything before, but we have to know ourselves. And I think that in the beginning of this process, I have readers do this massive list called the Okay and Not Okay list, And really in the beginning, it's it's easier to sort of identify like what's not okay, Like what's not working in all areas of your life, friendships, romantic home, your your surroundings, whether it's your apartment or a house, your job, how you're living, and everything down, you know, as small as the lighting in your office, let's say, because there are so many things that we can change, but we haven't learned to prioritize our own preference. We think at being like, it's no big deal, you know me easy, brazy, no for less no less. You're like okay, But that means you're never telling people who you actually are. And it's the small things. When you think about your preferences, desires, limits, and deal breakers, those are actually the things that make you you. So when we feel like we're constantly self abandoning to be like I don't want to make a big deal, signs that's okay, they needed more. I'll be last on my own list every f and day, all the time, every day. What ends up happening is that, of course, that represents disordered boundaries, emotional, physical, financial, there's a whole thing. But what you're really doing is literally buying a ticket to get on this train. And this train is one stop and it's called bitter Land. Like, there's no way that you will not end up being a bitter martyr. You will because you can do this. Trust me, I did it all of my twenties. You can do it for a period of time and be like this is cool, resentful, and then we're looking out like I can't believe Betty. She's so entitled, she's so nervy. I can't believe she would. Now, keep in mind, you freaking trained Betty. You trained Betty to expect all the things from you, right, And then you're like, Betty, no, this is about you, and we can change, we can renegotiate these relationships and the things that we've been doing. And so I teach you this process throughout the book, slowly but surely, right, and and it's different. We have I have different strategies that I teach you depending on whether you're talking to a boundary first time or right someone who you've never asked them, you've never you know, you know, shared a limit or a preference with them before. And then we have the repeat offenders. And then I have a whole entire chapter on the boundary destroyers, because that's a whole different bollo ax people with you know, cluster b personality disorders a lot of times, but these are people who they're the regular rules of engagement and the boundary rules that I teach you in the book. They don't apply to these people because these are people who are emotional predators, whether it's because they're ill, whether it's because they're mean and whatever. I mean, Like, the end of the end is it's not for me to judge them. My job is wanting to protect the people reading the book and teach you to protect yourself from someone. If someone has shown you that when you tell them something important to you, that they will throw it back in your face later, Hi, stop telling them important things. I don't care if it's your mother. I don't care if it's your lover. I don't care if it's your sister, because they've already said to you, oh, you know what, I am emotionally untrustworthy. I am an unsafe person. So you can stop telling them. But I also say have the conversation, because this means becoming a boundary boss where you can say, oh, that makes me not want to tell you anything important because I showed her that incompetence and you just used it against me to control me. So no, thanks, and I don't mind if I don't, well, yes, And when you said, well, it's whether it's your mom or goes back to us not having choices or being polite. It's like, well, I can't do that, it's my mom. Well you can. You can choose not to. You can. It's not. It might not be easy, but you can do that if that's continuing to not work for you. If it works for you, that's fine, if you don't mind her continuing to run over you. But it just sounds like you don't like this relationship that you have built, so you can change it. It just would. It would come with consequences, but also it would come with you gaining something too, So that's important to look at. It's the child within the I mean, so much of the work and so much of the disordered boundaries that people continue to experience and employ has to do with unresolved stuff from childhood. Which is why the entire beginning of the book and this whole process is we really have to know what is going on underneath the surface, and the only way to know is to go okay, So, how how do I know when a boundary has been crossed? How do I know when there's been a boundary by relation? How do I know what my my rights are? Because that is a big thing that people are always like I think it's always the nicest people who are like, I feel like I'm being unreasonable. I'm like, you're not. I'm worried that I'm being mean. I was like, trust me, it's always the mean people who are never freaking worried about being mean, Like you're not dressed me, you need to be doing this thing. But there's a lot with codependency, and we need to unpack those things because so so people are like, just give me all the scripts and listen. I have a whole entire chapter of scripts towards the end of the book, though, and I'm like, I could give you the perfect words for every day of the week. If you do not understand the original injuries that are driving dysfunctional boundary behaviors, maybe one time it will work, but it will not consistently work because the injury needs your attention. And when you give the injury the attention that it needs, which is really child you, then you will understand that when a client says I can't write, who's saying I can't. There's seven year old dealing with probably a narcissistic or abusive mother, Because that's seven year old could only say I can't because they're not like, Hi, I'm going on Craig's listen, get in a room, share like you're just the you know, kids are the ultimate captive audience where you're just rereaking screwed. And so these adaptive functioning, this behavior that we learned in childhood to stay safe, to being less pain, to not be rejected by our the adults in our life, they become maladaptive in adulthood, and yet we we never I'm like, oh, hey, is this still working because most people don't even know because these are unconscious process uses, you know. Okay, so two things have you heard that the story of the metaphor with the log and the river? I don't think so. Okay. So this is something that I use a lot, and this is talking about what you said. What you just said. So imagine you're like swimming in a river and it's fine, and then all of a sudden, this like storm comes and there are all these rapids and you're like drowning. You can swim, but it's so bad that you're drowning. You find you so then you grab onto the log, and the log you flow and you get through the storm and it keeps you alive. Then the storm passes and you're still holding onto the log because you're so afraid if you let go of the log then you're going to drown and die, when really all you have to do is let go of the log, walk to the shore, and you can go on with your life. And that's what you're saying, Like in your childhood, the maladaptive way that you set or have boundaries or whatever, the behaviors you have are our survival, Like you are doing what you know best to do based on your environment and getting your needs met and feeling safe. The problem is an adulthood. You're not in the river with the storm. You might be in a different storm, but you're not in that storm, and so that log is now holding you back rather than allowing and helping you. So that's exactly what you're saying, and it's finding the courage to let go of of the log and see if you can maybe just for like five seconds, and then you can grab back onto the log if you freak out, but allowing yourself you don't have to jump head first, but find a way to gently ease yourself in to the water again. And I also was thinking about when you were saying that a lot of times we think about these like big stories when you think about like childhood abuse and neglect, but these boundaries in the way that you're interacting in your relationships could be from a very more covert emotional neglect that you felt as a kid, where like from the outside you wouldn't even know that you were neglected in any way. Your mom your dad might not know that they even did anything, but it was still there. And that's I think one of the hardest things to move through because it's like, no, no, my mom was always there, my dad was always there. No, No, I had a great childhood, and like you might have had a really great childhood, and it doesn't mean that your needs were always met in the way that you really needed them to be met. I think that an other thing is thinking that when we're looking at parental stuff, you know, we feel very protective of our people, and especially when you if you were a child who was parentified, you want to be like, but I know that my mom had she had a terrible childhood. She did way better than her parents did, and it happened so long ago, and it does so I always say, listen, we're not judging. Maybe they did the best they could. Maybe then and I have no idea, but we don't care, because what we care about is now and now. This is just information, Like we're just gonna go gather the data that we need to get you out of dysfunction prison. That's it. So go back to the log for a second. I want you to think of the log as something that not only we're not just going to make you let go of the log, the thing that made you feel safe. We're going to give you a freaking boat or like floaties or like something that will actually benefit your life now. And there's nothing wrong with feeling like you need the boat. I would always say to my clients, you know, I'm feeling like you need the log. You know. I would always say to my clients, this thing you think you need, This thing that they're doing, whether it's working themselves to death or whatever. I'm like, it's like a woobie. It's like a blankie, but it has like s os pads and like glass yards in it. And you're telling me it's keeping you warm, and I'm like, but your arms are bleeding. It's not keeping you warm, it's making you bleed. Like you don't need this, and so you know, of course as you're doing the deeper work as well. But I was trying to come up with analogies and the same thing with the book. It's all written in the same way, where how to make what could be very complicated theory, theoretical stuff, psychological stuff, how do we boil it down to just what you need, just what you need to know? So what I did is I actually created a course five years ago and I first I work shopped it, so I beta tested it for the first time with fifty two women and now with thousands of women have gone through it. But I took every single bit of the feedback where they were like, this was amazing, I don't know, this thing didn't do that much. I was like, that thing's out, goodbye. So what is in the book is literally just what rose to the top again and again and again with each graduating class. Then I would hear from people four years later being like, oh my god, that thing that you know what I mean, Like you see how having healthy boundaries, knowing how to take care of yourself, prioritizing your own preferences, your own pleasure, that conceptually itself can change your life. But if you really want to do the work, I've done the best that I possibly can. And you know, thousands of people think I think it works. It's really about is it effective? You know, listen, it's entertaining, and yes I'm sharing. There's you know, every single chapter has stories, clients stories, my own personal stories, because I just feel like I always learned with a story better than someone you know, just going on and on great things. Something down You're like, Okay, I get it, but if you would just give me an example, I would really understand. And I my my dharma, my hope, my dream, my my life's purpose is to make this evolutionary process accessible to as many people as possible, of all genders, of all races, of all countries, of all cultures. Right Because when I was a therapist, like you know, I I by the end of my therapy practice, I was I was more coaching. It was all on you know, months. It was no longer the way that it had been. Most people couldn't afford that. And even my courses, some of them people if as another course in the eight hundred dollar course above and an dollar course. I wanted a book so that I could a give as many way as I wanted to for people who couldn't even maybe you couldn't afford fifteen dollars, but you still have a right to this information, and this information will still change your life, you know. So that was really my goal my heart. Yeah, and I think that it will and it is doing that, and we are about to be out of time, so I don't want to get into something and then have to cut it off. It's just making me think about because you work mostly with women, I work mostly with women, and the other thing that I want. Maybe we'll do this in the future. I hear a lot and I see a lot in my even like friendships, not just my clients, but this continuation of I keep dating the same people. I'm not finding this. Yes, let's do what I live on your live channel thing, and let's do it. Because it is a boundary thing. That that is an internal boundary thing. It's also a repetition. So this is I call them repeating relationship realities, repeating boundary realities, where based on Freud's repetition compulsion, we're repeating even though we don't want to. There is a way to understand. I'm gonna quickly hit it right right here, right now, and then we'll do something more expensive. Where if you find yourself, I keep say, dating the same person. If that's you, you're going to ask yourself these three questions. Who does this person remind me of m wherever I felt like this before? How or why is this behavioral dynamic the way I am relating and interacting with this person? How is it familiar to me? You may have seen it with your parents. A fourth question and you can write this in the show notes if you would for them, because so then I take notes is when I'm in this either stuck place with this person, or when I'm pursuing this person and they're running away from you, or the other way around, whatever it is, who do I become metaphorically and who do they become? You might become your punitive parent. They might become ten year old you. You might become ten year old you, and they become your punitive parent. When we can see that we are repeating something, what happens is we have something now that's on our side of the street that we need to clean up. We need to go huh, well, I'm because here's my here's my theory. I don't know if anyone else I present that. This is just my psychological theory. You can only talk things out or act things out. That's it. So if you're not therapy talking it out, we still have to work this crap out. So then we will act it out in our relationships and in our life, not realizing that we're having a transference. So those questions. It's called the Three Cues for Clarity. This is that tool that I just gave you that's basically to help you identify where and when you are having an emotional transference, which means you are reacting in this moment being driven by unresolved injury past, something some charge from the past, because this person reminds you, or it's striking some familiar chord that is unconscious. You're not aware of that yet. When I first learned this all concept, I was like, wait a minute, are you com kidding me? I can act to believe. It was a whole I was in. I was in a job and I hated this guy, and I was like complaining to my therapist about it, and I was like, he's the jerk, He's like this, He's like that, I hate him. I was avoiding him. I was jumping. I mean, I was already in grad school when this happened. And she was like, uh, can you describe this person again? And of course I describe him like you know, Brick's further suit, wearing Wall Street Journal, reading Martini, probably golfs like that just a judgmental jerk. She was like, who did you just describe? And I was like, oh, my god, my father, Like I would grow up terrib out of my father. I had a boss who I did not even know, and I was in school to become a therapist at this point I was I wasn't fifteen, I was like thirty, Like it was so obvious, but the transference can feel so real. The reason, of course we don't want to be living our life in a transference. Why because it's literally would be my ten year old running my job. I'm avoiding that guy because he reminds me of my father. But then my therapist is like, do you want to get a job at this place when you get out? How will this dude know how smart you are if you jump and hide in the bathroom every time you see him, and if you never talk when he's in a meeting. I'm like, fair point. Yeah, so anyway, that was kind of quick. I have a gift for for your people, though, and I want to make sure that I don't forget to tell you it, so hold on, let me tell you that. I'm gonna give you the you are round. Okay, And this is going to be about boundaries and codependency because we didn't really get to it, but I know your audience and I know, oh they want that you do, so you're gonna go do boundary boss dot me forward slash cat. Awesome. Thank you so much for doing that. And we did a whole episode on codependency and that was, I mean, one of the most responded to and related to episodes. I think I'm so grateful for that, for them to have that tool, so thank you. It's amazing. I actually did a course with Mark Roves on codependency called Crushing Codependency because we were both just fully obsessed with helping people because it is just so damaging. So yeah, there's lots out there about codependency now, which is amazing. Yeah, well, thank you so much. I am USh. I had an hour left to talk about we just what we just got into, but we'll talk again, and I appreciate this so much. Thank you. How can people find you on social media really quick? Can you shout out? Okay? Well, first of all, if you want to get the book, go to Boundary boss book dot com. You can buy it anywhere, but Boundary bus book dot com has all of the goodies that I created for you that are free, so I would like you to go there and get them. I'm just Terry Cole pretty much everywhere on Insta at Terry Cole. That's where I hang out the most. Probably. I also have a free group for women in Facebook called Real Love Revolution with Terry Coal when we talk about this stuff more. And I have a podcast to Terry Cole Show that I've had for about six years. Wow, so you were in it before people really got in the podcasting, so be there. Oh god, I'm so glad that I did then because you just get disciplined. Just I love it though, it's great. Love it, Oh yes, yes I do. But thank you so much for doing this. And I'll be in touch anytime with you. Yeah you you too, and have a good rest of your Monday YouTube. Thank you so much of what you do. I appreciate you. M

You Need Therapy

Kat Van Buren, who has earned her Masters of Education from Vanderbilt University in Human Developme 
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