Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. High whip Smarties. Today we are joined by one of my smartest friends and someone that I look up to in every single way, both from the way she lives her life and runs her career to who she is as a person. Today, I'm sitting down with Serlina Maxwell, who you likely know as an incredible American cable television host, political analyst, commentator, speaker, and author. She writes and speaks about everything politics, culture, gender inequity, sexual consent, racism, and so many other topics that affect all of us. She is a survivor and an activist. She holds a degree from Rutgers Law School. Started out as a field organizer in two thousand and eight on the Obama campaign and then was the director of Progressive Media for the Hillary Clinton campaign in twenty sixteen. She is a director of Programming at SiriusXM, now hosts her weekly show on Sirius called Signal Boost and her daily show Mornings with Zerlina on SERRIOUSXM Channel one twenty seven. And as if that wasn't enough, she wrote an incredible book called The End of Wait Politics, which we're kind of having to reanalyze now because a lot of fear mongering decided the last election. I'm going to talk to her today about the way that she sees the current state of things, how she's figuring out how to communicate that the political is actually everywhere around us and is so deeply personal with her audience with people who agree with her and people who don't. And she's going to give us a little preview in her next project, she is launching a new substack called the Inner Work Dispatch on Monday mornings because she realized, like many of us, that she needs to do a little more work on her mental health care and on her own wellness. She tries to ensure the wellness of the world. I cannot wait to dive in today. Let's hear from Serlina. I how where are you?

Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. High whip Smarties. Today we are joined by one of my smartest friends and someone that I look up to in every single way, both from the way she lives her life and runs her career to who she is as a person. Today, I'm sitting down with Serlina Maxwell, who you likely know as an incredible American cable television host, political analyst, commentator, speaker, and author. She writes and speaks about everything politics, culture, gender inequity, sexual consent, racism, and so many other topics that affect all of us. She is a survivor and an activist. She holds a degree from Rutgers Law School. Started out as a field organizer in two thousand and eight on the Obama campaign and then was the director of Progressive Media for the Hillary Clinton campaign in twenty sixteen. She is a director of Programming at SiriusXM, now hosts her weekly show on Sirius called Signal Boost and her daily show Mornings with Zerlina on SERRIOUSXM Channel one twenty seven. And as if that wasn't enough, she wrote an incredible book called The End of Wait Politics, which we're kind of having to reanalyze now because a lot of fear mongering decided the last election. I'm going to talk to her today about the way that she sees the current state of things, how she's figuring out how to communicate that the political is actually everywhere around us and is so deeply personal with her audience with people who agree with her and people who don't. And she's going to give us a little preview in her next project, she is launching a new substack called the Inner Work Dispatch on Monday mornings because she realized, like many of us, that she needs to do a little more work on her mental health care and on her own wellness. She tries to ensure the wellness of the world. I cannot wait to dive in today. Let's hear from Serlina. I how where are you?

I'm okay. I actually I just moved.

I'm okay. I actually I just moved.

I don't know if you saw on the thread or if they told you that, or if I mentioned that I was moving to Sicily, and so I just literally to Sunday, I moved to Sicily. So it's been a little bit crazy this week, just like because you have to like do all this stuff, like when you first move in terms of like your resident your permit to stay, and so getting a Italian phone number. Like, there's just a lot going on. But why I'm able to like do my show from.

I don't know if you saw on the thread or if they told you that, or if I mentioned that I was moving to Sicily, and so I just literally to Sunday, I moved to Sicily. So it's been a little bit crazy this week, just like because you have to like do all this stuff, like when you first move in terms of like your resident your permit to stay, and so getting a Italian phone number. Like, there's just a lot going on. But why I'm able to like do my show from.

Me, I was gonna ask, how does that work?

Me, I was gonna ask, how does that work?

Yeah, well, it looks it works out for me pretty well because the show's at seven o'clock in the morning, so here it's not.

Yeah, well, it looks it works out for me pretty well because the show's at seven o'clock in the morning, so here it's not.

Seven o'clock in the morning.

Seven o'clock in the morning.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But uh, and and it just like gives me a different quality of life. You know, I can I live by the water, I can, you know, go from my run or walk by the water.

But uh, and and it just like gives me a different quality of life. You know, I can I live by the water, I can, you know, go from my run or walk by the water.

And I just I don't know. I was here.

And I just I don't know. I was here.

I was in Italy in Rome for like five months of twenty twenty four, and then I spent the last month ironically the I spent the election day and day weeks after here in Palermo. And I I feel like it was meant to be that way, because I was like obviously stunned, just like everybody else, but I was also in like I felt removed from it, so my head was.

I was in Italy in Rome for like five months of twenty twenty four, and then I spent the last month ironically the I spent the election day and day weeks after here in Palermo. And I I feel like it was meant to be that way, because I was like obviously stunned, just like everybody else, but I was also in like I felt removed from it, so my head was.

Clear, Yeah, you had a little distance.

Clear, Yeah, you had a little distance.

Yeah, and.

Yeah, and.

I was able to like form thoughts about it in a way that I didn't I after in twenty sixteen. I was just like couldn't speak, you know, like it was different than that. Yeah, and so yeah, I'm here for at least a year.

I was able to like form thoughts about it in a way that I didn't I after in twenty sixteen. I was just like couldn't speak, you know, like it was different than that. Yeah, and so yeah, I'm here for at least a year.

That's what the visas for. So we'll just we'll see.

That's what the visas for. So we'll just we'll see.

That's so exciting. I spent some time near the end of twenty twenty three in Italy with my mom's family, and it was so special and I definitely had sort of thoughts of maybe this is what I do, Maybe this is where I go, maybe I start over.

That's so exciting. I spent some time near the end of twenty twenty three in Italy with my mom's family, and it was so special and I definitely had sort of thoughts of maybe this is what I do, Maybe this is where I go, maybe I start over.

There's something special about Italy. I think a lot of people. I mean, obviously it's a popular place for people to go on vacation, but I quickly learned and just talking to people, first of all, I mean it depends where you are obviously in Italy, but in southern Italy and in Sicily, the people their warmth is real, Like that's real, and they I don't know, there's the way they are is different, and it's actually very I learn a lot about like being present and you know, when I go out, not having my phone out, and talking to people face to face and having like face to face interactions and like connecting with people in a way that I just wasn't doing.

There's something special about Italy. I think a lot of people. I mean, obviously it's a popular place for people to go on vacation, but I quickly learned and just talking to people, first of all, I mean it depends where you are obviously in Italy, but in southern Italy and in Sicily, the people their warmth is real, Like that's real, and they I don't know, there's the way they are is different, and it's actually very I learn a lot about like being present and you know, when I go out, not having my phone out, and talking to people face to face and having like face to face interactions and like connecting with people in a way that I just wasn't doing.

I lived in Washington, d C.

I lived in Washington, d C.

Before I started my trips to Italy, and I was the most I mean, my mother died at the end of twenty twenty two, so I was like in a period of grief and like all of that, but like also in Washington, d C. I was the most sad I've been since I was like maybe nineteen, and I was like, I have to get out of here. My therapist like, you can move, you were remotely.

Before I started my trips to Italy, and I was the most I mean, my mother died at the end of twenty twenty two, so I was like in a period of grief and like all of that, but like also in Washington, d C. I was the most sad I've been since I was like maybe nineteen, and I was like, I have to get out of here. My therapist like, you can move, you were remotely.

So do you think that's sadness? I mean, of course, losing your mom is like, what a deep wall of grief to have to fall into. But do you think some of that larger sadness geographically was coming from a sensitivity to just how crazy things have gotten in our system? I mean, you know, we we're all old enough to remember, you know, policy fights and debates about legislation and budgets and priorities and things. But the Pandora's box that the first not even election, I would say, the first Trump campaign, yeah, opened right, you know in twenty fifteen leading into twenty sixteen. I I like, you can't believe we're back here. I was so shocked and also not at all surprised, which is a sort of heartbreak that I had to wrestle with for a few months. You know, the experience of I believe we're better than this. I guess we're just not.

So do you think that's sadness? I mean, of course, losing your mom is like, what a deep wall of grief to have to fall into. But do you think some of that larger sadness geographically was coming from a sensitivity to just how crazy things have gotten in our system? I mean, you know, we we're all old enough to remember, you know, policy fights and debates about legislation and budgets and priorities and things. But the Pandora's box that the first not even election, I would say, the first Trump campaign, yeah, opened right, you know in twenty fifteen leading into twenty sixteen. I I like, you can't believe we're back here. I was so shocked and also not at all surprised, which is a sort of heartbreak that I had to wrestle with for a few months. You know, the experience of I believe we're better than this. I guess we're just not.

No.

No.

I literally, well, my book is about how we are better than this. I thought I thought we would be in a very different place. I did not allow my brain to think that she may not win. I knew obviously that it was going to be really hard, right, and also she's a woman, and she's a black woman, and she onlyan one hundred days, like yeah, one hundred and seven, So all those things. I just didn't allow my brain to even go there. So when it happened, I was like, this is not happening. I don't I just sat there for a second and I was like, Okay, thank god I'm here because I can go and run and listen to loud Regie music and just like get that out of my body. Because I was like, it was like a primal screen almost like yeah.

I literally, well, my book is about how we are better than this. I thought I thought we would be in a very different place. I did not allow my brain to think that she may not win. I knew obviously that it was going to be really hard, right, and also she's a woman, and she's a black woman, and she onlyan one hundred days, like yeah, one hundred and seven, So all those things. I just didn't allow my brain to even go there. So when it happened, I was like, this is not happening. I don't I just sat there for a second and I was like, Okay, thank god I'm here because I can go and run and listen to loud Regie music and just like get that out of my body. Because I was like, it was like a primal screen almost like yeah.

And I think, what's hard to you know, and now that we're in it, let's be in it. I think what's hard for me is to see the level of destruction and the sort of shock that a lot of people are in that he's actually doing what he said he would do, right, And many of us are like, he told you the whole time he was going to do this, Like what are you what are you talking about?

And I think, what's hard to you know, and now that we're in it, let's be in it. I think what's hard for me is to see the level of destruction and the sort of shock that a lot of people are in that he's actually doing what he said he would do, right, And many of us are like, he told you the whole time he was going to do this, Like what are you what are you talking about?

Yeah, and.

Yeah, and.

It's odd. It's been odd for me. You know. There's another woman kind of who is in our long time sphere of political activists who I just kind of caught online the other day and I was like, oh, you're you're a traitor, got it. You You thought that by demonizing trans folks in America it might protect you. But you you're a woman, and by the way, you're not even a white woman. And this, this, this is not good for women like me, let alone for any other woman, Like, like, everybody has a target on their back unless they're you know, a billionaire. And I think it's hard for me to watch the swiftness and the cruelty. And also I think it's why so many of us have been saying, listen to the historians who are warning you about one hundred year cycles, like this shit is not new. We can tell you exactly where it starts, and we can tell you exactly where it goes. And by the way, you know, Hitler didn't start with Jews. He started with trans people, That's where he started.

It's odd. It's been odd for me. You know. There's another woman kind of who is in our long time sphere of political activists who I just kind of caught online the other day and I was like, oh, you're you're a traitor, got it. You You thought that by demonizing trans folks in America it might protect you. But you you're a woman, and by the way, you're not even a white woman. And this, this, this is not good for women like me, let alone for any other woman, Like, like, everybody has a target on their back unless they're you know, a billionaire. And I think it's hard for me to watch the swiftness and the cruelty. And also I think it's why so many of us have been saying, listen to the historians who are warning you about one hundred year cycles, like this shit is not new. We can tell you exactly where it starts, and we can tell you exactly where it goes. And by the way, you know, Hitler didn't start with Jews. He started with trans people, That's where he started.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So literally, people who are like, what do you mean, I'm like, this is why they've been banning books and attacking the American education system for forty years, Like Mitch McConnell's forty year plan is literally bearing fruit. I think it can be tough when you've dedicated so much of your life to understanding both history, potential and politics and how it's actually in everything to figure out how to communicate when you have a large platform like I do, or you do with folks who just don't have as many political touch points, who haven't been as in the weeds for so long. And I guess before we get into where you are, I just want everybody listening to understand your background. We've done a lot of shows together, so I don't want to ask you questions we've already gone through. But I do want for somebody who maybe this is their first time hearing us talk on my show or yours, I want people to understand your background. You know, like what first sparked your passion for politics? When did you know that you wanted? And I don't even want to call it political commentary. I think about it as like political communication, like it's translation of a system into words most of us can understand. When did you know that you wanted that to be your life, your career.

So literally, people who are like, what do you mean, I'm like, this is why they've been banning books and attacking the American education system for forty years, Like Mitch McConnell's forty year plan is literally bearing fruit. I think it can be tough when you've dedicated so much of your life to understanding both history, potential and politics and how it's actually in everything to figure out how to communicate when you have a large platform like I do, or you do with folks who just don't have as many political touch points, who haven't been as in the weeds for so long. And I guess before we get into where you are, I just want everybody listening to understand your background. We've done a lot of shows together, so I don't want to ask you questions we've already gone through. But I do want for somebody who maybe this is their first time hearing us talk on my show or yours, I want people to understand your background. You know, like what first sparked your passion for politics? When did you know that you wanted? And I don't even want to call it political commentary. I think about it as like political communication, like it's translation of a system into words most of us can understand. When did you know that you wanted that to be your life, your career.

I feel like I knew that during the administration of George W.

I feel like I knew that during the administration of George W.

Bush.

Bush.

And I've always been somebody who's been obsessed with politics since I was a little kid.

And I've always been somebody who's been obsessed with politics since I was a little kid.

I remember vividly.

I remember vividly.

I was eight and I was outside of school and we were lined up to like go in. I think I was in second or third grade back then, and it was the election.

I was eight and I was outside of school and we were lined up to like go in. I think I was in second or third grade back then, and it was the election.

With George H. W. Bush and Michael Ducaccus.

With George H. W. Bush and Michael Ducaccus.

And I remember like doing a little speech in front of the school in elementary school telling the kids to tell their parents to vote for Michael Ducaccus.

And I remember like doing a little speech in front of the school in elementary school telling the kids to tell their parents to vote for Michael Ducaccus.

Now, no one told me to do this.

Now, no one told me to do this.

My parents, both of my parents, like I think my mom was mostly a Democratic voter when I was growing up. My dad actually was voted for a few Republicans there.

My parents, both of my parents, like I think my mom was mostly a Democratic voter when I was growing up. My dad actually was voted for a few Republicans there.

So nobody told me to do this. This was just like.

So nobody told me to do this. This was just like.

Completely me sitting in front of the TV as a little kid, deciding I agree with those people and not those people like that. It was a very like visceral thing for me as a little kid, So fast forward to George W. Bush's administration. I was literally obsessed, in part because at the time I thought that was the worst we could do, and I just couldn't imagine not trying to prevent his you know, Republicans from continuing down this pass. So I ended up on the Obama campaign in two thousand and eight because I was like, if I don't do something well. One, I felt like I couldn't complain if it didn't if it didn't go well.

Completely me sitting in front of the TV as a little kid, deciding I agree with those people and not those people like that. It was a very like visceral thing for me as a little kid, So fast forward to George W. Bush's administration. I was literally obsessed, in part because at the time I thought that was the worst we could do, and I just couldn't imagine not trying to prevent his you know, Republicans from continuing down this pass. So I ended up on the Obama campaign in two thousand and eight because I was like, if I don't do something well. One, I felt like I couldn't complain if it didn't if it didn't go well.

But also I was like, I have I need skin in the game.

But also I was like, I have I need skin in the game.

And I lived in New Jersey at the time, and I decided I was like, well, New Jersey's not a battleground state. So I think it was Chuck Todd in his map, and I picked a yellow state, two yellow states to apply it to Virginia and Pennsylvania. I got jobs in both, but then decided to go to Virginia, a state that I'm very closely connected to my family now. My parents retired in Virginia, so Virginia is like a state I know they're politics well, and I've been in that state for many, many years. But I moved down to Virginia. I worked for the Obama campaign as a field organizer. This is before even my career in political communications took time off law school went down. Was a field organizer, knock on doors, and I really just learned what organizing is all about. I mean, I think everybody who starts in campaigns as a field organizer, that's like, that's the grunt work. But it's the best work because it teaches you all the different aspects of what's going on in a campaign because people are coming in and out of your field office.

And I lived in New Jersey at the time, and I decided I was like, well, New Jersey's not a battleground state. So I think it was Chuck Todd in his map, and I picked a yellow state, two yellow states to apply it to Virginia and Pennsylvania. I got jobs in both, but then decided to go to Virginia, a state that I'm very closely connected to my family now. My parents retired in Virginia, so Virginia is like a state I know they're politics well, and I've been in that state for many, many years. But I moved down to Virginia. I worked for the Obama campaign as a field organizer. This is before even my career in political communications took time off law school went down. Was a field organizer, knock on doors, and I really just learned what organizing is all about. I mean, I think everybody who starts in campaigns as a field organizer, that's like, that's the grunt work. But it's the best work because it teaches you all the different aspects of what's going on in a campaign because people are coming in and out of your field office.

But also you learn how to talk to people.

But also you learn how to talk to people.

You learn how to communicate with people about what they care about. Right, all kinds of people are coming into your field office every day, mostly for yard signs, but sometimes with other types of questions. And they really just taught me that there's people of all ages and all backgrounds, and you know, with so many different concerns, I mean, and politics is one way to address those concerns. When I first got that job in two thousand and eight and all the organizers stood up and they were asked like, why are you here, we went around the realm of hundreds of people, and ninety five percent of the people said health insurance. Healthcare was the reason why they were there, So they had been impacted directly because parent, her grandparent, and for me, I think that was a really emotional experience because I realized that it's not just politics, right, it's I mean a lot of people think politics is a thing that doesn't affect them because they're not paying attention to it. Right. It's, oh, well, that's that's politics, that's Democrats and Republicans. No, it's it affects you every single day, whether you know it or not. So I think I learned in that in the grassroots way, how politics intimately affects people, and I learned how to organize on that campaign. The second campaign I worked was Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen. In between, I became a writer and sort of had a profile as a writer and a media personality and ended up on Hillary's campaign in twenty sixteen based on that experience and what I learned were on that campaign, I mean, it was a really different job. I was a community communication staffer working on messaging.

You learn how to communicate with people about what they care about. Right, all kinds of people are coming into your field office every day, mostly for yard signs, but sometimes with other types of questions. And they really just taught me that there's people of all ages and all backgrounds, and you know, with so many different concerns, I mean, and politics is one way to address those concerns. When I first got that job in two thousand and eight and all the organizers stood up and they were asked like, why are you here, we went around the realm of hundreds of people, and ninety five percent of the people said health insurance. Healthcare was the reason why they were there, So they had been impacted directly because parent, her grandparent, and for me, I think that was a really emotional experience because I realized that it's not just politics, right, it's I mean a lot of people think politics is a thing that doesn't affect them because they're not paying attention to it. Right. It's, oh, well, that's that's politics, that's Democrats and Republicans. No, it's it affects you every single day, whether you know it or not. So I think I learned in that in the grassroots way, how politics intimately affects people, and I learned how to organize on that campaign. The second campaign I worked was Hillary Clinton in twenty sixteen. In between, I became a writer and sort of had a profile as a writer and a media personality and ended up on Hillary's campaign in twenty sixteen based on that experience and what I learned were on that campaign, I mean, it was a really different job. I was a community communication staffer working on messaging.

I think that's how we started.

I think that's how we started.

Communicating with each other because at the time Jess McIntosh, my partner in feminism, as I like to describe her, we were messaging to influencers, which no one knew what that meant. Bay twenty sixteen, they were like, what what is influencers? And we're like, we're doing influencer messaging and they were like, yeah.

Communicating with each other because at the time Jess McIntosh, my partner in feminism, as I like to describe her, we were messaging to influencers, which no one knew what that meant. Bay twenty sixteen, they were like, what what is influencers? And we're like, we're doing influencer messaging and they were like, yeah.

What does that mean?

What does that mean?

But I think in twenty sixteen, what I learned in that experience is that you really have to hit people in the heart.

But I think in twenty sixteen, what I learned in that experience is that you really have to hit people in the heart.

You know. There's something that.

You know. There's something that.

We and I've been thinking about this idea all year because there's something that is disconnected between what policies democrats are talking about and what people are feeling, even if those.

We and I've been thinking about this idea all year because there's something that is disconnected between what policies democrats are talking about and what people are feeling, even if those.

Policies would would help with that.

Policies would would help with that.

I think, long story short, to bring it back around, I think my experience both in two thousand and eight and twenty sixteen taught me from different perspectives how to actually reach people, right what do people care about, and how to talk to them so they feel like you hear them. And the things that you're talking about as it relates to politics, which affects everybody, are all things that they're like, oh, okay, I see how that can help me, and they're not so defensive right away.

I think, long story short, to bring it back around, I think my experience both in two thousand and eight and twenty sixteen taught me from different perspectives how to actually reach people, right what do people care about, and how to talk to them so they feel like you hear them. And the things that you're talking about as it relates to politics, which affects everybody, are all things that they're like, oh, okay, I see how that can help me, and they're not so defensive right away.

Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. There's a few things that kind of come up for me, and I'm curious about your lens, you know, much like you. The Oait election for President Obama was that was my first it's a political volunteer, and you know, by the time we all got onto Hillary's campaign in twenty sixteen, I think we were like, oh, we know what we're doing. We know how to do this. Part of the reason storytellers are so effective is because we can remind people take it out of the policy specific language and talk about how policy is personal. And one of the things that I see now is and we knew this right. We know a lie travels sixteen hundred times faster online than the truth. We know that soundbites float around and complex conversation doesn't. We know that the black and white is something that causes reactivity and nuance, which is required to run a country of this size, and also to understand all the people in it often doesn't translate or become clickbait. What I think I struggle with now is knowing not only those facts, but knowing how effective fear and othering are as a message, and to know that for our current administration, the cruelty is the point. And one of the things that I think we have failed at assuming we've had all these wins, we've had all this progress. You know, we were all born when a woman could get a credit card without her husband signing for it. We were born when a woman could rent an apartment without a man. Some of our elders, you know, the women that we look up to, were not. They remember the difference. And what I think we have failed at is communicating well that progress requires time and destruction is relatively immediate. If you drop a beautiful piece of pottery, it shatters the second it hits the floor. To make that pot on a wheel took time and clay and water and shaping and attempts and might have failed, and then begin again, and then it gets fired, and then it gets glazed, and then it gets fired again. Political progress or requires an investment of time and patience. But it's why we have these systems that seem to simply exist, and we haven't explained how they exist. The fact that we both have power in our homes is politics. The fact that we can turn on a faucet and drink water that hopefully won't kill us is politics. The fact that we have roads to drive on politics. When you bitch about the pothole in your neighborhood. Bad politics, Like people have forgotten that schools and clean air and water and electricity and a grocery store, all of it is politics. And so now politics has become these people who want to give your stuff away versus these mean people who'll do anything to give it back, And like that just ain't it? Like, it's not how it works. And when you think about you know, your show, your right, your activism, your political organizing, how do you begin to make the political personal? Because that difference between what we know and what we feel like, that's the gap. I think, So how do we help people understand how personal every single political decision is.

Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. There's a few things that kind of come up for me, and I'm curious about your lens, you know, much like you. The Oait election for President Obama was that was my first it's a political volunteer, and you know, by the time we all got onto Hillary's campaign in twenty sixteen, I think we were like, oh, we know what we're doing. We know how to do this. Part of the reason storytellers are so effective is because we can remind people take it out of the policy specific language and talk about how policy is personal. And one of the things that I see now is and we knew this right. We know a lie travels sixteen hundred times faster online than the truth. We know that soundbites float around and complex conversation doesn't. We know that the black and white is something that causes reactivity and nuance, which is required to run a country of this size, and also to understand all the people in it often doesn't translate or become clickbait. What I think I struggle with now is knowing not only those facts, but knowing how effective fear and othering are as a message, and to know that for our current administration, the cruelty is the point. And one of the things that I think we have failed at assuming we've had all these wins, we've had all this progress. You know, we were all born when a woman could get a credit card without her husband signing for it. We were born when a woman could rent an apartment without a man. Some of our elders, you know, the women that we look up to, were not. They remember the difference. And what I think we have failed at is communicating well that progress requires time and destruction is relatively immediate. If you drop a beautiful piece of pottery, it shatters the second it hits the floor. To make that pot on a wheel took time and clay and water and shaping and attempts and might have failed, and then begin again, and then it gets fired, and then it gets glazed, and then it gets fired again. Political progress or requires an investment of time and patience. But it's why we have these systems that seem to simply exist, and we haven't explained how they exist. The fact that we both have power in our homes is politics. The fact that we can turn on a faucet and drink water that hopefully won't kill us is politics. The fact that we have roads to drive on politics. When you bitch about the pothole in your neighborhood. Bad politics, Like people have forgotten that schools and clean air and water and electricity and a grocery store, all of it is politics. And so now politics has become these people who want to give your stuff away versus these mean people who'll do anything to give it back, And like that just ain't it? Like, it's not how it works. And when you think about you know, your show, your right, your activism, your political organizing, how do you begin to make the political personal? Because that difference between what we know and what we feel like, that's the gap. I think, So how do we help people understand how personal every single political decision is.

I've been thinking about this for the last three weeks because one of the things that folks call my show, and they call from all over the country, they're like.

I've been thinking about this for the last three weeks because one of the things that folks call my show, and they call from all over the country, they're like.

What can we do? What can Democrats do? You know, how do we stop this?

What can we do? What can Democrats do? You know, how do we stop this?

And it's in part I think there is a disconnect between some Democrats and what they say and some of the democratic messaging and what really resonates with people emotionally.

And it's in part I think there is a disconnect between some Democrats and what they say and some of the democratic messaging and what really resonates with people emotionally.

Right.

Right.

I think that is why Trump succeeds in communicating to his base of support, because he taps in to them emotionally.

I think that is why Trump succeeds in communicating to his base of support, because he taps in to them emotionally.

Even though he's lying.

Even though he's lying.

To that, right, right, Like, that's what makes me crazy, you know me too, Me just.

To that, right, right, Like, that's what makes me crazy, you know me too, Me just.

Lies and people go, yep, that's it.

Lies and people go, yep, that's it.

Right, And and unfortunately there are some people who want to be lied to, so some people do. They They may even if you got them, you know, in a corner and you were like, you know, that's not true, and they probably you probably could get them to admit that. But but I do think that one of the things that we sometimes miss on the left, and I hate even doing like right left, like on my show, I feel like we're humans, We're trying to survive, we're trying to be happy. We're all like have sort of the same goals here, and he's hurting everybody. It doesn't matter what side of the spectrum you fall on. He's he's firing government employees that voted for.

Right, And and unfortunately there are some people who want to be lied to, so some people do. They They may even if you got them, you know, in a corner and you were like, you know, that's not true, and they probably you probably could get them to admit that. But but I do think that one of the things that we sometimes miss on the left, and I hate even doing like right left, like on my show, I feel like we're humans, We're trying to survive, we're trying to be happy. We're all like have sort of the same goals here, and he's hurting everybody. It doesn't matter what side of the spectrum you fall on. He's he's firing government employees that voted for.

Him, right, I mean, just gutted the VA.

Him, right, I mean, just gutted the VA.

Exactly, literally veterans losing their And one of the things I've been thinking about in the last couple of weeks is the way in which Democrats can start talking about what's happening with Doggie. I don't even call it dose because Jess McIntosh and I just call it doggy.

Exactly, literally veterans losing their And one of the things I've been thinking about in the last couple of weeks is the way in which Democrats can start talking about what's happening with Doggie. I don't even call it dose because Jess McIntosh and I just call it doggy.

Because it sounds funny.

Because it sounds funny.

What stories we can start telling about what's happening, right, It's not you know, there have been twenty thousand people who have been laid off. It's let's go talk to those people who are they it's a mom. It's probably a mom of three who worked for the federal government, maybe in a health agency, maybe in the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau making sure that people aren't getting scammed by credit card companies, and they're not. They're going to miss the payment for their mortgage, They're not going to be able to pay their their bills, they're not going to be able to pay tuition for their child. There you know, they may not be able to put gas in the car, much less afford eggs that have not gone down in price. So I think that the storytelling element that you that you referenced is the key, right. And I think sometimes we can get caught up in statistics and numbers as opposed to really talk to people's hearts, not their heads.

What stories we can start telling about what's happening, right, It's not you know, there have been twenty thousand people who have been laid off. It's let's go talk to those people who are they it's a mom. It's probably a mom of three who worked for the federal government, maybe in a health agency, maybe in the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau making sure that people aren't getting scammed by credit card companies, and they're not. They're going to miss the payment for their mortgage, They're not going to be able to pay their their bills, they're not going to be able to pay tuition for their child. There you know, they may not be able to put gas in the car, much less afford eggs that have not gone down in price. So I think that the storytelling element that you that you referenced is the key, right. And I think sometimes we can get caught up in statistics and numbers as opposed to really talk to people's hearts, not their heads.

And I actually I.

And I actually I.

Was having a conversation with somebody in Europe after the twenty twenty four election, and that is the conversation we were having because it wasn't just about the United States. It was about the left globally and how they sometimes struggle talking to people's hearts. And I mean in the context, the context was sort of like feeding people, you know, talking over a good meal and really just talking in a way that sounds human. And it's not that Democrats are not and it's not that they don't care about people, but I think sometimes we can get caught up in the numbers. And I was actually even in the first couple of weeks, not sure if even attacking Elon Musk was necessarily the best message quote unquote for the this particular moment, even though I think that couldn't be part of the message, that could be the only message, because I almost was like, I'm not sure, because there's a lot of people who look up to him of all backgrounds.

Was having a conversation with somebody in Europe after the twenty twenty four election, and that is the conversation we were having because it wasn't just about the United States. It was about the left globally and how they sometimes struggle talking to people's hearts. And I mean in the context, the context was sort of like feeding people, you know, talking over a good meal and really just talking in a way that sounds human. And it's not that Democrats are not and it's not that they don't care about people, but I think sometimes we can get caught up in the numbers. And I was actually even in the first couple of weeks, not sure if even attacking Elon Musk was necessarily the best message quote unquote for the this particular moment, even though I think that couldn't be part of the message, that could be the only message, because I almost was like, I'm not sure, because there's a lot of people who look up to him of all backgrounds.

Right he is the world's richest man.

Right he is the world's richest man.

There are people backgrounds that look up to him because they don't know anything other than that's it.

There are people backgrounds that look up to him because they don't know anything other than that's it.

People look up to him because they don't know how he got rich, and they don't know where he comes from exactly, and they don't know what he's done to people exactly exactly. And we this is the irony, though, And I'm curious what you think here, because Trump has demonized the quote elite public servants who make not a lot of money compared to people like Donald Trump and his friends. He's demonized folks like you in the news media, folks like me who you know work on TV sometimes and I'm like bro, most of us with sad cards, you know, screen actors, guild actors like I only have healthcare because I'm in a union, right, Like, that's literally how I go to the doctor. You know, I if I make a dollar, my agent makes ten cents, my manager makes ten cents, my assistant makes ten cents, my lawyer makes fifty cents. Like I support a whole team of people when I work, and when I don't, we're all stressed out. Like we aren't like him. We don't fly around in private jets. We don't, you know, have endlessly expendable money. And yet a man who is a billionaire who launched a meme coin which was likely allegedly a money laundering scam, who went from having a four billion dollar net worth to having a twenty nine billion dollar net worth at the weekend of his coin launch, and then the coin tanked once he sold all his shares. I'm like, that's a straight up twenty five billion dollar grift. And your friend is the world's richest man who is about to be the first trillionaire, who, by the way, said to the World Health Organization, tell me how I could solve world hunger. They gave him a plan and said it would only cost you six billion dollars. He announced publicly he was going to do it, and then he was like, psych I got all the good press. What I'm going to do is go buy Twitter for forty four billion dollars instead. Like these are bad people. These are like movie villain rich terrible people. And somehow they've managed to convince people with so much less, people whose livelihoods are at risk from paycheck to paycheck, that those of us who have been in paycheck to paycheck positions aren't like them. But the billionaire class is like, how how, why? What is that? Are we just all so secretly sure that if we got a reality show or I don't know, fathered seventeen children with however many women, Elon has that like, we could be rich too. What what is that in our psyche that puts us in these crazy places where we are like the characters in that kid's book The Emperor has no clothes, and we're like, yeah, great robe to the naked guy, Like what why are we like this?

People look up to him because they don't know how he got rich, and they don't know where he comes from exactly, and they don't know what he's done to people exactly exactly. And we this is the irony, though, And I'm curious what you think here, because Trump has demonized the quote elite public servants who make not a lot of money compared to people like Donald Trump and his friends. He's demonized folks like you in the news media, folks like me who you know work on TV sometimes and I'm like bro, most of us with sad cards, you know, screen actors, guild actors like I only have healthcare because I'm in a union, right, Like, that's literally how I go to the doctor. You know, I if I make a dollar, my agent makes ten cents, my manager makes ten cents, my assistant makes ten cents, my lawyer makes fifty cents. Like I support a whole team of people when I work, and when I don't, we're all stressed out. Like we aren't like him. We don't fly around in private jets. We don't, you know, have endlessly expendable money. And yet a man who is a billionaire who launched a meme coin which was likely allegedly a money laundering scam, who went from having a four billion dollar net worth to having a twenty nine billion dollar net worth at the weekend of his coin launch, and then the coin tanked once he sold all his shares. I'm like, that's a straight up twenty five billion dollar grift. And your friend is the world's richest man who is about to be the first trillionaire, who, by the way, said to the World Health Organization, tell me how I could solve world hunger. They gave him a plan and said it would only cost you six billion dollars. He announced publicly he was going to do it, and then he was like, psych I got all the good press. What I'm going to do is go buy Twitter for forty four billion dollars instead. Like these are bad people. These are like movie villain rich terrible people. And somehow they've managed to convince people with so much less, people whose livelihoods are at risk from paycheck to paycheck, that those of us who have been in paycheck to paycheck positions aren't like them. But the billionaire class is like, how how, why? What is that? Are we just all so secretly sure that if we got a reality show or I don't know, fathered seventeen children with however many women, Elon has that like, we could be rich too. What what is that in our psyche that puts us in these crazy places where we are like the characters in that kid's book The Emperor has no clothes, and we're like, yeah, great robe to the naked guy, Like what why are we like this?

I don't know.

I don't know.

I wish I knew the answer. I think part of it we're delusional. There's a lot of people who are delusional these days, and I think it goes back to in all serious it's the point you mentioned earlier about disinformation and misinformation. So number one, even the story that you just told about Elon Musk and Donald Trump and the meme coin, a lot of people don't know that detail because that's not detail that is in their siloed media environment.

I wish I knew the answer. I think part of it we're delusional. There's a lot of people who are delusional these days, and I think it goes back to in all serious it's the point you mentioned earlier about disinformation and misinformation. So number one, even the story that you just told about Elon Musk and Donald Trump and the meme coin, a lot of people don't know that detail because that's not detail that is in their siloed media environment.

So they're not even getting the facts right.

So they're not even getting the facts right.

They are poureding off from fact telling right if they're just watching Fox News, if their algorithm is only feeding them right winging voices, they are not getting any of the facts and that it's it's so because I feel like one of the things that happened in the first couple of weeks and it's still happening now with all the federal layoffs, is people who voted for Trump are like, I got fired today or I did not, I lost my snap benefits today or I couldn't access my step menefits because of the initial funding freeze. I think that people are now starting to see that, wait a minute, he's doing things that are affecting me, that are harming me. And he didn't say he was going to do that. He said he was going to deport all of the brown people, all the undocumented people that I thought he was going to do that. I didn't think he was going to do this. And I think that the storytelling plus the making sure they have access to the facts, I think that there can be a really critical combination of those two things that can help at least get us part of the way. But unfortunately, for the next couple of years, until at least the midtrum elections, it's going to be incredibly hard. And I think that one of the things that I know that I've been doing on my show, I know that AOC has been doing that every time she goes on IG Live, is really level setting with people and saying, look, we're not in power as Democrats, not in the Senate, not in the House. There's very little that we can do. There's I mean, I would argue there there's more they could do. But there's not a whole lot they can do. They can't stop things whole claw.

They are poureding off from fact telling right if they're just watching Fox News, if their algorithm is only feeding them right winging voices, they are not getting any of the facts and that it's it's so because I feel like one of the things that happened in the first couple of weeks and it's still happening now with all the federal layoffs, is people who voted for Trump are like, I got fired today or I did not, I lost my snap benefits today or I couldn't access my step menefits because of the initial funding freeze. I think that people are now starting to see that, wait a minute, he's doing things that are affecting me, that are harming me. And he didn't say he was going to do that. He said he was going to deport all of the brown people, all the undocumented people that I thought he was going to do that. I didn't think he was going to do this. And I think that the storytelling plus the making sure they have access to the facts, I think that there can be a really critical combination of those two things that can help at least get us part of the way. But unfortunately, for the next couple of years, until at least the midtrum elections, it's going to be incredibly hard. And I think that one of the things that I know that I've been doing on my show, I know that AOC has been doing that every time she goes on IG Live, is really level setting with people and saying, look, we're not in power as Democrats, not in the Senate, not in the House. There's very little that we can do. There's I mean, I would argue there there's more they could do. But there's not a whole lot they can do. They can't stop things whole claw.

And not only can they not stop things, but when when the federal government, when our federal courts say, this is outside the scope of presidential power. You are infringing on the other branches of the judiciary, this is not within the scope of executive power. You are breaking the law. And he says, so, yeah, we've never had that. I mean, it is truly.

And not only can they not stop things, but when when the federal government, when our federal courts say, this is outside the scope of presidential power. You are infringing on the other branches of the judiciary, this is not within the scope of executive power. You are breaking the law. And he says, so, yeah, we've never had that. I mean, it is truly.

It's not hyperbole.

It's not hyperbole.

It's not people, you know, being sensitive or fantastical or whatever. It's a true constitutional crisis or in the person who occupies the O office, I am not going to respect any other branch of the federal government, and I am not going to listen to the law of the land, nor will I follow the letter of the Constitution. We have a problem.

It's not people, you know, being sensitive or fantastical or whatever. It's a true constitutional crisis or in the person who occupies the O office, I am not going to respect any other branch of the federal government, and I am not going to listen to the law of the land, nor will I follow the letter of the Constitution. We have a problem.

Oh yeah, no, it's a huge problem. I asked Senator Chris Murphy recently the same exact question. I was like, I know, But I was also like, well, what do we do because we have to assume he's not going to follow any of what the judges saying. Even if the judges are like, you're in the law, He's going to be like so what, I'm gonna do what I want. It's unconstitutional. He's like, so what, I don't care, and we have to just assume that he's I think that Senator Murphy pointed made the most important point. One of the first things he did was was a signal. He pardoned the January sixth insurrectionists. That was the mall we all should have known from day one that he is not going to respect the rule of law.

Oh yeah, no, it's a huge problem. I asked Senator Chris Murphy recently the same exact question. I was like, I know, But I was also like, well, what do we do because we have to assume he's not going to follow any of what the judges saying. Even if the judges are like, you're in the law, He's going to be like so what, I'm gonna do what I want. It's unconstitutional. He's like, so what, I don't care, and we have to just assume that he's I think that Senator Murphy pointed made the most important point. One of the first things he did was was a signal. He pardoned the January sixth insurrectionists. That was the mall we all should have known from day one that he is not going to respect the rule of law.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, he's going in there as a convicted felon, but we know he's not going to respect the rule of law because he pardoned the people who attacked the capitol.

I mean, he's going in there as a convicted felon, but we know he's not going to respect the rule of law because he pardoned the people who attacked the capitol.

In January sixth.

In January sixth.

Yeah, And so that was the signal that if you ever commit acts of violence or break the law for me, you'll be fine. And that is the same thing is true about mister Elon Musk, Right, if he breaks the law and a judge is like, stop doing that, he's gonna make so what because he knows that his buddy President Trump can pardon him.

Yeah, And so that was the signal that if you ever commit acts of violence or break the law for me, you'll be fine. And that is the same thing is true about mister Elon Musk, Right, if he breaks the law and a judge is like, stop doing that, he's gonna make so what because he knows that his buddy President Trump can pardon him.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Right.

Right.

So I think one of the things that.

So I think one of the things that.

So many people are not really grasping right now is not only did they tell us they were going to do all of this, they wrote it all down on probably twenty twenty five, And I remember saying on MSNBC before the election, the combination of Projecly twenty twenty five in the presidential immunity decision, that is what a dictatorship is. Those two things together combined make a dictator And I don't think people were really getting it. And the pushback that I got in talking about democracy and protecting democracy was that people really care.

So many people are not really grasping right now is not only did they tell us they were going to do all of this, they wrote it all down on probably twenty twenty five, And I remember saying on MSNBC before the election, the combination of Projecly twenty twenty five in the presidential immunity decision, that is what a dictatorship is. Those two things together combined make a dictator And I don't think people were really getting it. And the pushback that I got in talking about democracy and protecting democracy was that people really care.

About the cost of eggs.

About the cost of eggs.

And while I think that there are people out there that did care about the cost of eggs, they that was just their cover for not really admitting that they wanted to deport some of these brown people and that was the real reason why they were supporting Donald Trump. And it frustrated me that we couldn't really get to the heart of the matter. And now people are stunned that he's breaking the democracy because they told us they were going to break the democracy. They had a plan to break the democracy, and he's using Elon Musk to do it.

And while I think that there are people out there that did care about the cost of eggs, they that was just their cover for not really admitting that they wanted to deport some of these brown people and that was the real reason why they were supporting Donald Trump. And it frustrated me that we couldn't really get to the heart of the matter. And now people are stunned that he's breaking the democracy because they told us they were going to break the democracy. They had a plan to break the democracy, and he's using Elon Musk to do it.

We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. To go back to that pottery analogy. When I think about the outbreak of a global pandemic, the first in one hundred years. You know, you think the Spanish fluid in nineteen eighteen, and then COVID, you know, granted we know now that it was beginning to spread in twenty nineteen, but really went global twenty twenty, shut down the entire global economy, supply chains, factories, shipping routes. To build that back up requires a building, almost from scratch. Once the well oiled machine stops, it takes a lot to get the machine going again. And when economists were talking about how President Biden had done such incredible work to stop inflation and manage to do it without starting a recession and brought American inflation below three percent in just three years, and did it so effectively that it actually began lowering inflation rates in other countries, people were like, what are you talking about?

We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. To go back to that pottery analogy. When I think about the outbreak of a global pandemic, the first in one hundred years. You know, you think the Spanish fluid in nineteen eighteen, and then COVID, you know, granted we know now that it was beginning to spread in twenty nineteen, but really went global twenty twenty, shut down the entire global economy, supply chains, factories, shipping routes. To build that back up requires a building, almost from scratch. Once the well oiled machine stops, it takes a lot to get the machine going again. And when economists were talking about how President Biden had done such incredible work to stop inflation and manage to do it without starting a recession and brought American inflation below three percent in just three years, and did it so effectively that it actually began lowering inflation rates in other countries, people were like, what are you talking about?

And when I would.

And when I would.

Quote to friends and say, have you seen the studies? Do you understand that inflation in Australia went over twenty percent, that inflation in Argentina reached twenty two percent, that inflation in Europe in certain areas was over nineteen percent, And people were like, wait, what I'm going How much do you think eggs cost there? And yes, things are not perfect again here yet, but everything is trending in the right direction. But for some reason, we are so impatient with the fix, right, we are impatient with the work, even though the work for America alone has to be done for three hundred and thirty two million people. Like, think about how crazy the freeway looks at five o'clock, Like there aren't even a million people on the freeway and you're in a bumper to bumper parking lot. Like to move hundreds of millions of people back into a sort of synchronized efficiency takes time, and for some reason that time, rather than looking at it and saying, wow, we are so proud to be leading the world on global recovery, it turned into they're not doing things fast enough. Let's go back to the other guy. And it feels, you know, it feels to me like we are in the upside down. And to your point, it feels like because these are complex conversations right the left or the you know, folks that want everybody to have rights and that want kids to have lunch in school. Because I'm I'm like, I'm done like you with the right and the left thing. I'm like, you either want kids to be able to eat in school or you don't.

Quote to friends and say, have you seen the studies? Do you understand that inflation in Australia went over twenty percent, that inflation in Argentina reached twenty two percent, that inflation in Europe in certain areas was over nineteen percent, And people were like, wait, what I'm going How much do you think eggs cost there? And yes, things are not perfect again here yet, but everything is trending in the right direction. But for some reason, we are so impatient with the fix, right, we are impatient with the work, even though the work for America alone has to be done for three hundred and thirty two million people. Like, think about how crazy the freeway looks at five o'clock, Like there aren't even a million people on the freeway and you're in a bumper to bumper parking lot. Like to move hundreds of millions of people back into a sort of synchronized efficiency takes time, and for some reason that time, rather than looking at it and saying, wow, we are so proud to be leading the world on global recovery, it turned into they're not doing things fast enough. Let's go back to the other guy. And it feels, you know, it feels to me like we are in the upside down. And to your point, it feels like because these are complex conversations right the left or the you know, folks that want everybody to have rights and that want kids to have lunch in school. Because I'm I'm like, I'm done like you with the right and the left thing. I'm like, you either want kids to be able to eat in school or you don't.

That's it right to me, just basic human decency.

That's it right to me, just basic human decency.

And so the pro kids having school lunch's side, for some reason can't seem to harness the messaging on what they're doing well. And so the other side, despite everyone know they're lying, keeps lying and then the lies hit the airways and here we are. So how do you think, you know, Chris Murphy, I think one of our best messages AOC doing an incredible job. How do you think we can begin to cut through some of the bs and some of the unwillingness for people to listen to anyone who thinks, yes, I kids should eat lunch in school. How do we like right the ship a little bit here?

And so the pro kids having school lunch's side, for some reason can't seem to harness the messaging on what they're doing well. And so the other side, despite everyone know they're lying, keeps lying and then the lies hit the airways and here we are. So how do you think, you know, Chris Murphy, I think one of our best messages AOC doing an incredible job. How do you think we can begin to cut through some of the bs and some of the unwillingness for people to listen to anyone who thinks, yes, I kids should eat lunch in school. How do we like right the ship a little bit here?

Well, one of the things I think is that we have to be better about putting on a show.

Well, one of the things I think is that we have to be better about putting on a show.

Right.

Right.

One of the things that Donald Trump did well, I mean, for lack of a better description, in the twenty twenty four election, is he put on you know, it was silly and and even and I was making fun of it at the time because it looks silly, But when he kept standing in front of a bunch of groceries, right, it was just a visual reminder to people that he was going to solve that problem for them, even though he didn't do anything about it. He hasn't done anything about it since becoming president, and he doesn't intend on doing anything about it. We just have to tell better stories, and we have to do it in a way that is visually compelling. So I have been critical on my show in the past couple of weeks just in terms of I think that Democrats showing up at protests outside of federal agency buildings is great. And I know that there are like regularly scheduled press availabilities and press conferences that are inside of Congress because our government has, you know, things that standard procedure, but we're not.

One of the things that Donald Trump did well, I mean, for lack of a better description, in the twenty twenty four election, is he put on you know, it was silly and and even and I was making fun of it at the time because it looks silly, But when he kept standing in front of a bunch of groceries, right, it was just a visual reminder to people that he was going to solve that problem for them, even though he didn't do anything about it. He hasn't done anything about it since becoming president, and he doesn't intend on doing anything about it. We just have to tell better stories, and we have to do it in a way that is visually compelling. So I have been critical on my show in the past couple of weeks just in terms of I think that Democrats showing up at protests outside of federal agency buildings is great. And I know that there are like regularly scheduled press availabilities and press conferences that are inside of Congress because our government has, you know, things that standard procedure, but we're not.

In that moment.

In that moment.

So I I've grown tired of seeing any Democrats stand in front of a podium inside of the Capitol building. I do not understand why they're not standing at a coffee shop with real people who have been fired from their jobs. That is what I think they need to do more of. They need to be in with the people. I know that they have jobs, and they got to vote on legs. Well, they have to vote on procedural things and confirmations obviously happening with the cabinet, or hopefully they're voting in opposition to that cabinet. But I think that part of the problem and the disconnect sometimes comes from they're not putting on a good enough show and it seems silly. It seems like, well, isn't it about substance. It is, but you do have to make it digestible for people. Going back to the food analogy, you do have to to make it so that people are like, oh, okay, they're gonna they're gonna make sure that.

So I I've grown tired of seeing any Democrats stand in front of a podium inside of the Capitol building. I do not understand why they're not standing at a coffee shop with real people who have been fired from their jobs. That is what I think they need to do more of. They need to be in with the people. I know that they have jobs, and they got to vote on legs. Well, they have to vote on procedural things and confirmations obviously happening with the cabinet, or hopefully they're voting in opposition to that cabinet. But I think that part of the problem and the disconnect sometimes comes from they're not putting on a good enough show and it seems silly. It seems like, well, isn't it about substance. It is, but you do have to make it digestible for people. Going back to the food analogy, you do have to to make it so that people are like, oh, okay, they're gonna they're gonna make sure that.

You know, I can afford my groceries.

You know, I can afford my groceries.

Now, the president can't do anything about gas prices per se, but I think that you know, Trump does. That doesn't make mean that Trump doesn't say he can do something about that. He still lies and says that you know, it's all because of him, even though it isn't.

Now, the president can't do anything about gas prices per se, but I think that you know, Trump does. That doesn't make mean that Trump doesn't say he can do something about that. He still lies and says that you know, it's all because of him, even though it isn't.

But Democrats just have to tell better stories. They're not that. Sometimes they can get into the weeds they.

But Democrats just have to tell better stories. They're not that. Sometimes they can get into the weeds they.

Want to they want And I do this a lot of the time, Like I have to catch myself sometimes doing this. And I think on my radio show, if you like listen, over the years, I think that I talk more like a regular person and less like a strategist now because I realized that actually coming with all of my facts and all of my data and all of my talking points is not actually persuasive as persuasive it as it is to just talk to another person, hear them out, listen to what they're saying.

Want to they want And I do this a lot of the time, Like I have to catch myself sometimes doing this. And I think on my radio show, if you like listen, over the years, I think that I talk more like a regular person and less like a strategist now because I realized that actually coming with all of my facts and all of my data and all of my talking points is not actually persuasive as persuasive it as it is to just talk to another person, hear them out, listen to what they're saying.

And then be like, but what about what about this? Isn't that? Isn't that a better idea?

And then be like, but what about what about this? Isn't that? Isn't that a better idea?

And just and talk to them in a way that they feel heard, but then understand that what you're suggesting in terms of a policy is actually going to help them and is for their benefit, like that you don't have some sort of other agenda going on as well.

And just and talk to them in a way that they feel heard, but then understand that what you're suggesting in terms of a policy is actually going to help them and is for their benefit, like that you don't have some sort of other agenda going on as well.

And I think we can get to in the weeds.

And I think we can get to in the weeds.

We're talking in too many stats and numbers, and we just have to get to people's hearts, right, go talk to their heads, talk to their hearts.

We're talking in too many stats and numbers, and we just have to get to people's hearts, right, go talk to their heads, talk to their hearts.

Well, I hear you. And then it feels so tricky because yes, a lot of people talked about the price of eggs, and now eggs are twice as expensive approximately. I think the numbers change every day as they were during the last administration. Nobody's talking about it. You know, the AP is getting banned from the Oval Office, because they are still referring to the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of Mexico because that's its name, right.

Well, I hear you. And then it feels so tricky because yes, a lot of people talked about the price of eggs, and now eggs are twice as expensive approximately. I think the numbers change every day as they were during the last administration. Nobody's talking about it. You know, the AP is getting banned from the Oval Office, because they are still referring to the Gulf of Mexico as the Gulf of Mexico because that's its name, right.

You know. Some of this stuff is so crazy, you know.

You know. Some of this stuff is so crazy, you know.

And I'm like, oh, so you do understand name changes in pronoun changes. Actually yeah, Trump government got ithilarious loll but also not funny. You know. Everything he's doing is it's happening so fast, and we are getting caught on these things. Gulf of Mexico versus Golf of America was a week long discourse and it's not even a thing that matters. It's a distraction to the gutting of the VA. It's a distraction to the fact that someone with no government oversight, who has not been vetted, is essentially acting as a shadow president, someone who comes from a generational family that supported apartheid, that are allegedly active Nazis, that are you know, doing Nazi salutes on stages and courting the far right German Party and interfering in European elections and buying media outlets. I mean, this is this is the playbook of the twenties and thirties on steroids, yea, And people are getting really caught up in dumb shit. So I almost wonder if the bigger systemic problem. I think a lot about this with anti vaxers. Okay, people are convinced that rather than having better science and us being able to understand the full spectrum of neurodiversity in humans, thus we understand more people exist on an autism spectrum, more people are a neurodivergent ADHD. They're actually beginning to prove was a superpower in hunter gatherer times because you could really focus and get all the berries and then go home when you felt like you did your task. You know, none of this is actually a bad thing. But now suddenly everybody's like, oh, it must have been this one vaccine dose my kid got that did something to them, even though the tighters are all lower than they were when we were kids, even though the vaccine amounts are lower than they were, even though there's more arsenic in a pair from the pesticides it grows in than there is in the totality of all vaccines you'll ever get in your life. Like, I think, it's easier to blame the one thing that maybe you could avoid it, even though avoiding it could kill you, than to admit Oh, our government's been poisoning the land on both sides of the aisle with glycassate for fifty years. Oh, we know that the pipes in Flint are full of lead and they're giving kids brain damage, but we're not replacing them. Oh, we clearly have a problem, you know, after the wildfires in Los Angeles with water system contamination by a Brita like. I think it's easier to try to point to the quickest insult to your safety than to analyze systemic problems. Yeah, and to require then that these sides work across the aisle to solve the problems for all people and all voters, no matter how you identify. It's easier to harp on something that you think you can avoid than to say, Oh, I'm a cog in a very big machine that might not care about me. Do you think that's part of it? Oh?