Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress. Hi with smarties. I'm so so excited about the gal I'm sitting down with today because not only is she, I think, one of the voices of our generation as a writer and a director, she happens to be a dear friend. We have known each other for so long. Today's guest is none other than writer and director of The Fallout and her latest My Old Ass, Megan Park. You may know Megan from her early days starring on the Secret Life of the American Teenager. You also may know her if you are a one Tree Health fan as Tyler Hilton's incredible wife. She is truly one of the most earnest, passionate, funny friends I have in my life, who happens to write so openly that, even though every single one of her stories is so unique and isn't something we've seen before, every single person who watches her films feels reflected in them, which is probably why they have such unbelievably high ratings on Rotten Tomatoes. And Megan has made her latest film with none other than producer extraordinary Margo Robbie. I can't wait to ask her all about Sundance, all about writing, how she finds each of these fascinating characters, and her creative process in general. Let's dive in with Megan Park. It is honestly, it's like so weird to talk about work right now, but also kind of incredibly healing. Like the week was really weird, and I had planned to go to the Wicked premiere and I was like, I don't know if I can. What do I We're going to the movies, And then I was like, actually, the movies are exactly where I want to be, and this movie that's based or this movie that's based on a play that was based on the movie that was written in response to the Rise of Hitler actually feels like exactly where I want to go. Like I got there and I was like, we're here for like all the musical theater people and all of the artists and all of the gays and all of the witches that they couldn't burn, Like this was the movie that I needed. Yeah, and it really did. I felt like it really healed me. And then I felt so good after having seen a movie that the next night I watched your movie. I was like, this is exactly what I needed again, So I think I'm just going to become a film buff for the next four years.

Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to work in Progress. Hi with smarties. I'm so so excited about the gal I'm sitting down with today because not only is she, I think, one of the voices of our generation as a writer and a director, she happens to be a dear friend. We have known each other for so long. Today's guest is none other than writer and director of The Fallout and her latest My Old Ass, Megan Park. You may know Megan from her early days starring on the Secret Life of the American Teenager. You also may know her if you are a one Tree Health fan as Tyler Hilton's incredible wife. She is truly one of the most earnest, passionate, funny friends I have in my life, who happens to write so openly that, even though every single one of her stories is so unique and isn't something we've seen before, every single person who watches her films feels reflected in them, which is probably why they have such unbelievably high ratings on Rotten Tomatoes. And Megan has made her latest film with none other than producer extraordinary Margo Robbie. I can't wait to ask her all about Sundance, all about writing, how she finds each of these fascinating characters, and her creative process in general. Let's dive in with Megan Park. It is honestly, it's like so weird to talk about work right now, but also kind of incredibly healing. Like the week was really weird, and I had planned to go to the Wicked premiere and I was like, I don't know if I can. What do I We're going to the movies, And then I was like, actually, the movies are exactly where I want to be, and this movie that's based or this movie that's based on a play that was based on the movie that was written in response to the Rise of Hitler actually feels like exactly where I want to go. Like I got there and I was like, we're here for like all the musical theater people and all of the artists and all of the gays and all of the witches that they couldn't burn, Like this was the movie that I needed. Yeah, and it really did. I felt like it really healed me. And then I felt so good after having seen a movie that the next night I watched your movie. I was like, this is exactly what I needed again, So I think I'm just going to become a film buff for the next four years.

It's like I have this whole mentality when I go in Stad where I'm like, I think it's really important to remember that we're not saving lives like I tried, you know, in terms of like we're not Yes, there's going to be fires and things that go wrong, but there's nothing that can't be solved. But it is interesting because I have been thinking like post selection and just whatever the state of the world. I'm like, well we are art does save lives, you know, and it really there is that gravity to it. Yeah, you can still have that mentality on set of not like you know, putting out fires with that kind of yeah, like prenetic mentality. But I do feel like now, more than ever, it's reaffirmed my belief that I'm like, oh, yeah, it's so important to work the shit out and make art that feels makes people feel seen, especially people that are trying to be you know, stomped out of existence in America.

It's like I have this whole mentality when I go in Stad where I'm like, I think it's really important to remember that we're not saving lives like I tried, you know, in terms of like we're not Yes, there's going to be fires and things that go wrong, but there's nothing that can't be solved. But it is interesting because I have been thinking like post selection and just whatever the state of the world. I'm like, well we are art does save lives, you know, and it really there is that gravity to it. Yeah, you can still have that mentality on set of not like you know, putting out fires with that kind of yeah, like prenetic mentality. But I do feel like now, more than ever, it's reaffirmed my belief that I'm like, oh, yeah, it's so important to work the shit out and make art that feels makes people feel seen, especially people that are trying to be you know, stomped out of existence in America.

Yeah. What a weird what a weird time. Well, the movie feels more important I think now than ever, and for me, especially stories that you know, send her women and are led by and feel so important. But before we get into how you made this perfect film and all of my questions about it, I actually want to like rewind in a big way, which might be more surreal for you than some people, because I wonder how it'll make you think about your own family. We got to know you as an actor so young. Ye, I'm actually really curious if we go back even further, Like if we could do what your movie does and you could sit down with nine year old Megan, who would she be? Was she a storyteller? Was she a performer? Was she a bookworm?

Yeah. What a weird what a weird time. Well, the movie feels more important I think now than ever, and for me, especially stories that you know, send her women and are led by and feel so important. But before we get into how you made this perfect film and all of my questions about it, I actually want to like rewind in a big way, which might be more surreal for you than some people, because I wonder how it'll make you think about your own family. We got to know you as an actor so young. Ye, I'm actually really curious if we go back even further, Like if we could do what your movie does and you could sit down with nine year old Megan, who would she be? Was she a storyteller? Was she a performer? Was she a bookworm?

Like?

Like?

Who's the little girl that you were? And do you see how she turned into the adult.

Who's the little girl that you were? And do you see how she turned into the adult.

That you are. I thought a little bit about this because everybody keeps asking, you know, like would you want to go back and you know, talk to your younger self? Would you want to talk to your older self? And I feel like me and Amazing and Aubrey have all been like we rejacked the idea of going forward because it gets too scary because after your older self, but it would be so therapeutic. It feels like a therapy exercise to go back and talk to your childhood self. I think it's interesting because when you're from a small town and you don't have anybody in your family who's in the industry, but you have a desire to be in the arts in some capacity, you end up a theater camp. And I think that's sort of what happened to me, is like, my dad was a dentist, my mom was a teacher. Nobody was I didn't know. We didn't have a TV in our house. The first time I saw a movie in the theater, I was twelve. Although they took us to tons of theater and tons of ballet and the opera and things like that in Toronto, I just TV in film was not really at the forefront of like how I absorbed the arts, I guess, but I ended up in theater camp and that led to like being a full year round theater program, and that led to me being like, Okay, I really like this. And then you know, there's so many things that film in Toronto that like need to hire Canadian people, and so I started getting jobs. And when you have some six set it becomes like a bit of a like a you know, like okay, this is working, like this is I'm having fun doing this. And I got to meet so many incredible people that felt like my people for the first time. This is when I was older. I mean, my parents didn't let me start acting professionally until I was sixteen or seventeen, which is young now in hindsight, but I certainly wasn't doing it on a professional level at nine. But I think that performing was like the pathway to finding what I was meant to do, which was writing and directing. But even and you'll probably relate to this, like, really, I was in TV for most of my acting career, and I was on a lot of shows where creativity wasn't necessarily always at the forefront of what was the most important thing. And a lot of times, you know, after six or seven seasons of a show, the actors are really running the set, and so the directors would sweet some directors that would come in and and have really exciting ideas and stuff. But I never really saw the director in a lot of situations as somebody who was getting to really be super creative. So I never I look back, and I'm like, that's so crazy that I never really want I had end no desire. I never would have expected that I would end up directing or writing. The writers were just like we were on the sound stage in the lot, they were in another area. We never really saw them. It wasn't that type of a set where it was a super like the writers were constantly there, you know, throwing out dialogue. So it was very separate. And then but I just absorbed so much. I mean I spent like seven years making you know, twenty seven episodes of TV show, a TV and a season, and I feel so comfortable on a set, like I know everybody's role inside and out, and worked with so many different types of actors. So it was like this weird you know education, but I'm not like a cinophile. Nobody in my family was like I just saw Forrest Gump for the first time, catching up on the classics, and so I was always like, I can't direct, like I don't know anything. But yeah, I think that acting it had to go the way that it went because I never would have just I never would have been like I'm going to go to film school and I'm going to study cameras and lenses. I would have it just wouldn't have interested me. But once I found it through acting, I was like, oh, this makes sense. In a way that acting, truthfully never has.

That you are. I thought a little bit about this because everybody keeps asking, you know, like would you want to go back and you know, talk to your younger self? Would you want to talk to your older self? And I feel like me and Amazing and Aubrey have all been like we rejacked the idea of going forward because it gets too scary because after your older self, but it would be so therapeutic. It feels like a therapy exercise to go back and talk to your childhood self. I think it's interesting because when you're from a small town and you don't have anybody in your family who's in the industry, but you have a desire to be in the arts in some capacity, you end up a theater camp. And I think that's sort of what happened to me, is like, my dad was a dentist, my mom was a teacher. Nobody was I didn't know. We didn't have a TV in our house. The first time I saw a movie in the theater, I was twelve. Although they took us to tons of theater and tons of ballet and the opera and things like that in Toronto, I just TV in film was not really at the forefront of like how I absorbed the arts, I guess, but I ended up in theater camp and that led to like being a full year round theater program, and that led to me being like, Okay, I really like this. And then you know, there's so many things that film in Toronto that like need to hire Canadian people, and so I started getting jobs. And when you have some six set it becomes like a bit of a like a you know, like okay, this is working, like this is I'm having fun doing this. And I got to meet so many incredible people that felt like my people for the first time. This is when I was older. I mean, my parents didn't let me start acting professionally until I was sixteen or seventeen, which is young now in hindsight, but I certainly wasn't doing it on a professional level at nine. But I think that performing was like the pathway to finding what I was meant to do, which was writing and directing. But even and you'll probably relate to this, like, really, I was in TV for most of my acting career, and I was on a lot of shows where creativity wasn't necessarily always at the forefront of what was the most important thing. And a lot of times, you know, after six or seven seasons of a show, the actors are really running the set, and so the directors would sweet some directors that would come in and and have really exciting ideas and stuff. But I never really saw the director in a lot of situations as somebody who was getting to really be super creative. So I never I look back, and I'm like, that's so crazy that I never really want I had end no desire. I never would have expected that I would end up directing or writing. The writers were just like we were on the sound stage in the lot, they were in another area. We never really saw them. It wasn't that type of a set where it was a super like the writers were constantly there, you know, throwing out dialogue. So it was very separate. And then but I just absorbed so much. I mean I spent like seven years making you know, twenty seven episodes of TV show, a TV and a season, and I feel so comfortable on a set, like I know everybody's role inside and out, and worked with so many different types of actors. So it was like this weird you know education, but I'm not like a cinophile. Nobody in my family was like I just saw Forrest Gump for the first time, catching up on the classics, and so I was always like, I can't direct, like I don't know anything. But yeah, I think that acting it had to go the way that it went because I never would have just I never would have been like I'm going to go to film school and I'm going to study cameras and lenses. I would have it just wouldn't have interested me. But once I found it through acting, I was like, oh, this makes sense. In a way that acting, truthfully never has.

Yeah, do you think that why do you think that is?

Yeah, do you think that why do you think that is?

Like?

Like?

Was was acting too small a project for you? Do you think that directing gave you the full like the full scope? This is going to sound so stupid. I don't know why this just popped into my head, but the image that I had when I did this, I was like, I mactored like a piece of pizza and then a whole pizza, Like you know, is directing just more slices for you?

Was was acting too small a project for you? Do you think that directing gave you the full like the full scope? This is going to sound so stupid. I don't know why this just popped into my head, but the image that I had when I did this, I was like, I mactored like a piece of pizza and then a whole pizza, Like you know, is directing just more slices for you?

Yeah, I think that there was. I thought a lot about it because as I've been doing press, a big press cycle for the first time because the Fallout came out during the pandemic and I was able to not have to really do any of that, I've been so triggered again in the same way as an actor, which is like getting my hair and makeup done, being in fittings like that stuff is so it truly is like it's not my favorite part of it. And I think that, Yeah, I think that as an actor, I would watch my peers be so driven to like get these roles. And I remember shay Shane Woodley, who was on Secret Life with me. She specifically that movie The Descendants that really broke her out. She was so young, she was like sixteen or seventeen, and she auditioned and like didn't even get a call back, and she was like, no, like I know, this is my part, and she went to a new acting class and like fought to get a callback. And I was kind of like just sort of there for the ride, like I would be on side and be like, this is fun, but there was nothing about it was that felt like it was fulfilling to me creatively. I was having a lot of fun doing it. I was meeting really interesting people, I was having some success doing it, but I really hated certain elements of it as well, Like I really hated the hair and makeup trailer. I hated fittings, Like I just didn't love that part of it. And then truthfully, the first time I directed, I was like, wait a second. I get to be on set, which I love. I get to work with actors, which I love. I get to work with other creatives and be collaborative, which I love. And I don't have to go through two hours of hair makeup in the morning or ever do a fitting like I'm already this is oh yeah, wait I love this so much. And it's not that like, I don't know, shame on the hair and makeup part of it. Maybe I'm just like two insecure for that side of it. And I could never ever put myself in one of my own projects. You've always asked me, Yes, that's like my personal nightmare. God, it's just something I'm I'm objective enough, you know.

Yeah, I think that there was. I thought a lot about it because as I've been doing press, a big press cycle for the first time because the Fallout came out during the pandemic and I was able to not have to really do any of that, I've been so triggered again in the same way as an actor, which is like getting my hair and makeup done, being in fittings like that stuff is so it truly is like it's not my favorite part of it. And I think that, Yeah, I think that as an actor, I would watch my peers be so driven to like get these roles. And I remember shay Shane Woodley, who was on Secret Life with me. She specifically that movie The Descendants that really broke her out. She was so young, she was like sixteen or seventeen, and she auditioned and like didn't even get a call back, and she was like, no, like I know, this is my part, and she went to a new acting class and like fought to get a callback. And I was kind of like just sort of there for the ride, like I would be on side and be like, this is fun, but there was nothing about it was that felt like it was fulfilling to me creatively. I was having a lot of fun doing it. I was meeting really interesting people, I was having some success doing it, but I really hated certain elements of it as well, Like I really hated the hair and makeup trailer. I hated fittings, Like I just didn't love that part of it. And then truthfully, the first time I directed, I was like, wait a second. I get to be on set, which I love. I get to work with actors, which I love. I get to work with other creatives and be collaborative, which I love. And I don't have to go through two hours of hair makeup in the morning or ever do a fitting like I'm already this is oh yeah, wait I love this so much. And it's not that like, I don't know, shame on the hair and makeup part of it. Maybe I'm just like two insecure for that side of it. And I could never ever put myself in one of my own projects. You've always asked me, Yes, that's like my personal nightmare. God, it's just something I'm I'm objective enough, you know.

It's really interesting. I have a friend who's such a talented right now and such an amazing comedian, and he's doing a show right now that he's also writing on and he was like, Oh, this is really hard and to do all of it, yeah, and to do it at the same time because he obviously writes his comedy, He's written his specials, right he writes them and then he performs them. And he was saying that having I'm a huge fan the best and he was just saying that having to do both is like so hard. Yeah, So I get that. It really made me think. And not to say that it's in any way, shape or form the same as I think it would be now. But one of the things I think they did really well for us when we were making One Tree Hill is that when we finally started directing. They really would do their best to kind of stack our scenes so that we could do two heavy days of acting and then we'd have seven days of just directing on set.

It's really interesting. I have a friend who's such a talented right now and such an amazing comedian, and he's doing a show right now that he's also writing on and he was like, Oh, this is really hard and to do all of it, yeah, and to do it at the same time because he obviously writes his comedy, He's written his specials, right he writes them and then he performs them. And he was saying that having I'm a huge fan the best and he was just saying that having to do both is like so hard. Yeah, So I get that. It really made me think. And not to say that it's in any way, shape or form the same as I think it would be now. But one of the things I think they did really well for us when we were making One Tree Hill is that when we finally started directing. They really would do their best to kind of stack our scenes so that we could do two heavy days of acting and then we'd have seven days of just directing on set.

Right, And yeah, I can't.

Right, And yeah, I can't.

Imagine like having to perform in a scene and then.

Imagine like having to perform in a scene and then.

Be like, hold on, was that funny?

Be like, hold on, was that funny?

Let me rewrite my own lines right now on the fly, like I would die.

Let me rewrite my own lines right now on the fly, like I would die.

I know. I think people that can do it, I feel like it's it's so admirable because you really do have to like really be removed from yourself and take a step back, and I so admire people that can do it, and a lot of people can do it really well. For me, it's like I also I find the actors that I cast become such muses to me, and I'm just like too insecure to be my own muse. Like you know what I mean, I can enny good one began.

I know. I think people that can do it, I feel like it's it's so admirable because you really do have to like really be removed from yourself and take a step back, and I so admire people that can do it, and a lot of people can do it really well. For me, it's like I also I find the actors that I cast become such muses to me, and I'm just like too insecure to be my own muse. Like you know what I mean, I can enny good one began.

I don't know, you really nailed that, girl, pat yourself on the back.

I don't know, you really nailed that, girl, pat yourself on the back.

And nailed it. But yeah, it does take the ability to switch brains, and I think I just turned off the acting side of my brain too. I don't miss it yet. Maybe someday I will, but I just don't miss it. I don't miss it yet.

And nailed it. But yeah, it does take the ability to switch brains, and I think I just turned off the acting side of my brain too. I don't miss it yet. Maybe someday I will, but I just don't miss it. I don't miss it yet.

Wow, you know what's funny.

Wow, you know what's funny.

I I don't think I let myself miss it. I think we did One Tree Hill for so long, and I wonder if you felt this way it was secret life, Like we did it for so so long that I looking back, there's like certain projects I did on hiatus that I never should have, but I was just so desperate to like do anything else that I was like, I don't even care if the script isn't that good. It's the only movie that shoots in the days that I'm off. And then it was like I jumped into a show. Immediately I went onto Partners, and then immediately I went onto PD. Like I did not take a break for fifteen years, dangs, And now I've kind of allowed myself to take time in between things, and like the strike forced us all to take time.

I I don't think I let myself miss it. I think we did One Tree Hill for so long, and I wonder if you felt this way it was secret life, Like we did it for so so long that I looking back, there's like certain projects I did on hiatus that I never should have, but I was just so desperate to like do anything else that I was like, I don't even care if the script isn't that good. It's the only movie that shoots in the days that I'm off. And then it was like I jumped into a show. Immediately I went onto Partners, and then immediately I went onto PD. Like I did not take a break for fifteen years, dangs, And now I've kind of allowed myself to take time in between things, and like the strike forced us all to take time.

But even this year, I.

But even this year, I.

Had these two movies planned and then one had to shift because you know what it's like with production and locations and whatever. And the space I got in the shift actually was such a gift to me. And now I'm doing this fun thing on grays and like I went to set.

Had these two movies planned and then one had to shift because you know what it's like with production and locations and whatever. And the space I got in the shift actually was such a gift to me. And now I'm doing this fun thing on grays and like I went to set.

And I was like, oh my god, acting is so.

And I was like, oh my god, acting is so.

Fun, And it had only been three months in between the movie wrapping and the show. But I find that my bounce back into really enjoying what we do on set is faster and faster than it used to be. So I do wonder if you'll find that.

Fun, And it had only been three months in between the movie wrapping and the show. But I find that my bounce back into really enjoying what we do on set is faster and faster than it used to be. So I do wonder if you'll find that.

I think so. And I think also, these projects take so long that it feels like you get as I'm you know, now, I'm already like I started a new project this week, and I'm already, you know, fifty pages into my next film. But you do have these I mean, we shot this movie almost three years ago or three years ago, and so it takes so long that and so much of it for me is in the writing of it, like in before you're ever even on set. Yeah, so it feels like it's yeah, there's a sense of completion, you know, and you do get to kind of breathe through it and really see it, and once you put it out in the world, it already feels like it's in my brain. I've already moved on to the next creative thing. And I spend so much time in that quiet space. I'm not sitting in my computer writing every day. I'm that's not at all my process, Like I spend so much time just kind of living and thinking about the characters and just figure out what the next story I want to tell is. And I think that's why I've been so like passionate about the things that I have been able to work on, because it's I've had that room to breathe in between.

I think so. And I think also, these projects take so long that it feels like you get as I'm you know, now, I'm already like I started a new project this week, and I'm already, you know, fifty pages into my next film. But you do have these I mean, we shot this movie almost three years ago or three years ago, and so it takes so long that and so much of it for me is in the writing of it, like in before you're ever even on set. Yeah, so it feels like it's yeah, there's a sense of completion, you know, and you do get to kind of breathe through it and really see it, and once you put it out in the world, it already feels like it's in my brain. I've already moved on to the next creative thing. And I spend so much time in that quiet space. I'm not sitting in my computer writing every day. I'm that's not at all my process, Like I spend so much time just kind of living and thinking about the characters and just figure out what the next story I want to tell is. And I think that's why I've been so like passionate about the things that I have been able to work on, because it's I've had that room to breathe in between.

I love that.

I love that.

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How did that start for you?

How did that start for you?

Like?

Like?

How did you go from TV? You know, set life, actor life. Where did the writing come from? How did you know that this is where you wanted to go?

How did you go from TV? You know, set life, actor life. Where did the writing come from? How did you know that this is where you wanted to go?

I didn't really, but truthfully I don't. I'm feeling I'm figuring out my own brain, still in my writer brain. But I worked with this actress writer director named Zoe Kazan who's very talented, and we played sisters, and I just was so obsessed with her and looked up to her so much, and I thought she was like the smartest person I'd ever met. She's very smart and very cool. And I was just coming Secret Life had been canceled, but we were still had to film like ten episodes or whatever, and so for the first time I was kind of thinking about what was next, and I had this idea about a show that I want to write about this child, this girl who was like, you know, almost thirty, who was playing like a fourteen year old on a Disney show, who was just always like high out of her mind. It was called Calver Collins Is High. And I was pitching it to Zoe as an idea and she was like, you should write it, and it was just literally I knew she was so smart and so talented. Her even thinking that I could do it, it was like a light bulb went off in my head. Nobody had ever said to me before, like have you ever thought about it? I don't know. I just had never had anybody that I believed in so much believe in me in that way. And I remember she kind of read the first draft of it and thought it was really great, and I ended up just sending it to my agents and everybody, of course, was like, we love how There's there's no structure to this show, like it's just very and I was like, because I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know how, I don't know how to write act breaks or anything. But I end up CBS ended up buying it and we actually went through sort of like they hired a showrunner and I learned a lot. It never got made, but it was immediately I was like, oh, this is so therapeutic for me to write. I didn't even think about directing it at that point, but just the writing process was so fun for me, and I knew then that I was like, I'm going to write forever, whether people are reader it or not, Like this is something that I can't not do. This is for me, Like this is just so personal. And then that didn't get made, and the fallout was something that I'd been thinking about. I was still acting and just like taking like whatever kind of roles came my way. And I was in Vancouver at the Sutton Place, like film something I just couldn't stop thinking about. I mean, obviously, unfortunately there wasn't one specific event, but I started thinking about just the reality of being a teenager in an American and going to school every day. And I grew up, of course, like a millennial and going to school in Canada, and I never ever felt scared. I never felt scared going to school, not once, never even entered my mind. And I think I was starting to think about having kids and I was like, well, fuck, like this is just I can't believe this is actually a reality. I would for sure not be able to go to school every day if I was sixteen right now, Like I just knowing who I am, I couldn't do it. And I just kind of started thinking about how can I talk about this in a way that's palatable, because it was so triggering to me, Like I have a really hard time, you know, watching stories about gun violence and school shootings, but yet I felt like there hadn't been this story about kind of somebody who wasn't directly affected by it necessarily, but was obviously, you know, greatly affected by it. And so just this veda character was very much a part of me, and it was just a story that I wanted to tell. And maybe it was nice that I am a millennial and I am Canadian and had the sort of like a removed perspective on it in a sense that helped me to kind of of tap into that in some way. But I talked to a lot of people who had been through Beta's experience. I talked to a lot of people involved with every town and did a lot of research and had a lot of people read it and give me notes and feedback, and unfortunately, there's so many people who who could give perspective into this story, and it was important to me to make it, you know, not triggering for people who had been through that experience. But once I thought about it and talked about it so much, I wrote it in like a week or maybe two weeks. It came really, really really fast because I knew who all the people were, and it was the same with mild Ass. Soon as I figure out the characters, then everything just kind of flows. I never write an outline and never like do anything like that. I'm just kind of like, Okay, I know the people, and now I can just sit and write a scene and their voices will kind of come to me. But yeah, that was sort of like the prime and then I yeah, two weeks and then somebody wanted to make it. We made it for a million dollars, which I was like, that's so much money to make a movie. And then I was like, oh, that's not a lot of You're.

I didn't really, but truthfully I don't. I'm feeling I'm figuring out my own brain, still in my writer brain. But I worked with this actress writer director named Zoe Kazan who's very talented, and we played sisters, and I just was so obsessed with her and looked up to her so much, and I thought she was like the smartest person I'd ever met. She's very smart and very cool. And I was just coming Secret Life had been canceled, but we were still had to film like ten episodes or whatever, and so for the first time I was kind of thinking about what was next, and I had this idea about a show that I want to write about this child, this girl who was like, you know, almost thirty, who was playing like a fourteen year old on a Disney show, who was just always like high out of her mind. It was called Calver Collins Is High. And I was pitching it to Zoe as an idea and she was like, you should write it, and it was just literally I knew she was so smart and so talented. Her even thinking that I could do it, it was like a light bulb went off in my head. Nobody had ever said to me before, like have you ever thought about it? I don't know. I just had never had anybody that I believed in so much believe in me in that way. And I remember she kind of read the first draft of it and thought it was really great, and I ended up just sending it to my agents and everybody, of course, was like, we love how There's there's no structure to this show, like it's just very and I was like, because I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know how, I don't know how to write act breaks or anything. But I end up CBS ended up buying it and we actually went through sort of like they hired a showrunner and I learned a lot. It never got made, but it was immediately I was like, oh, this is so therapeutic for me to write. I didn't even think about directing it at that point, but just the writing process was so fun for me, and I knew then that I was like, I'm going to write forever, whether people are reader it or not, Like this is something that I can't not do. This is for me, Like this is just so personal. And then that didn't get made, and the fallout was something that I'd been thinking about. I was still acting and just like taking like whatever kind of roles came my way. And I was in Vancouver at the Sutton Place, like film something I just couldn't stop thinking about. I mean, obviously, unfortunately there wasn't one specific event, but I started thinking about just the reality of being a teenager in an American and going to school every day. And I grew up, of course, like a millennial and going to school in Canada, and I never ever felt scared. I never felt scared going to school, not once, never even entered my mind. And I think I was starting to think about having kids and I was like, well, fuck, like this is just I can't believe this is actually a reality. I would for sure not be able to go to school every day if I was sixteen right now, Like I just knowing who I am, I couldn't do it. And I just kind of started thinking about how can I talk about this in a way that's palatable, because it was so triggering to me, Like I have a really hard time, you know, watching stories about gun violence and school shootings, but yet I felt like there hadn't been this story about kind of somebody who wasn't directly affected by it necessarily, but was obviously, you know, greatly affected by it. And so just this veda character was very much a part of me, and it was just a story that I wanted to tell. And maybe it was nice that I am a millennial and I am Canadian and had the sort of like a removed perspective on it in a sense that helped me to kind of of tap into that in some way. But I talked to a lot of people who had been through Beta's experience. I talked to a lot of people involved with every town and did a lot of research and had a lot of people read it and give me notes and feedback, and unfortunately, there's so many people who who could give perspective into this story, and it was important to me to make it, you know, not triggering for people who had been through that experience. But once I thought about it and talked about it so much, I wrote it in like a week or maybe two weeks. It came really, really really fast because I knew who all the people were, and it was the same with mild Ass. Soon as I figure out the characters, then everything just kind of flows. I never write an outline and never like do anything like that. I'm just kind of like, Okay, I know the people, and now I can just sit and write a scene and their voices will kind of come to me. But yeah, that was sort of like the prime and then I yeah, two weeks and then somebody wanted to make it. We made it for a million dollars, which I was like, that's so much money to make a movie. And then I was like, oh, that's not a lot of You're.

Like, actually, when there's a whole giant set and locations and rentals and transfer and gas you have to buy for the transfer cars and the.

Like, actually, when there's a whole giant set and locations and rentals and transfer and gas you have to buy for the transfer cars and the.

People and like a lot like The Office.

People and like a lot like The Office.

It suddenly you realize when you employ that many people, you're building a world goes fast.

It suddenly you realize when you employ that many people, you're building a world goes fast.

Yeah. I mean we shot that movie in like fifteen days, I think, and we edited it and not even thirty And I thought that was normal because it's just the first time I'd directed something, but you know, it was it was also really special to have such a small, yeah crew like we had. It made it like a really intimate, cool experience.

Yeah. I mean we shot that movie in like fifteen days, I think, and we edited it and not even thirty And I thought that was normal because it's just the first time I'd directed something, but you know, it was it was also really special to have such a small, yeah crew like we had. It made it like a really intimate, cool experience.

Which I think you can feel and the movie feels so intimate, and I think for the subject matter of The Fallout, that probably enabled people to feel a little like safer to be open. What what was it like then, because that film was, I mean a such an amazing film, be so critically acclaimed, like it brings all the attention and all the things and puts you in front of so many people. How was the process different with my old ass?

Which I think you can feel and the movie feels so intimate, and I think for the subject matter of The Fallout, that probably enabled people to feel a little like safer to be open. What what was it like then, because that film was, I mean a such an amazing film, be so critically acclaimed, like it brings all the attention and all the things and puts you in front of so many people. How was the process different with my old ass?

It was? It was so different because I mean, yeah, we took The Fallout to south By and won, you know, the Grand Jury Award, and we won the Audience Favorite, and also I won the Directing Award and I was at home and the festival director called me because it was you know, twenty twenty one. Everything was virtual. She was like congratulations, you know you won, and it was like, thank you, and then I hung up the phone and went back to doing whatever.

It was? It was so different because I mean, yeah, we took The Fallout to south By and won, you know, the Grand Jury Award, and we won the Audience Favorite, and also I won the Directing Award and I was at home and the festival director called me because it was you know, twenty twenty one. Everything was virtual. She was like congratulations, you know you won, and it was like, thank you, and then I hung up the phone and went back to doing whatever.

I just like finished my laundry.

I just like finished my laundry.

Yeah, like I yeah, Whennie had just been born, my daughter, and so yeah, it was a very very removed. I like still don't feel like I made that movie and it went out into the world like it's still shocks and we were like the Fall and I still have never seen that movie on the big screen with the cast or an audience, which is also so surreal. The whole thing was really really removed, but also kind of freeing because I got to just I really was like just so not in my head about it because I was like, no, no one's going to see this movie. And then HBO Max bought it and people saw, which was really exciting. And then this time I was definitely having like sophomore album anxiety because I was like, oh, fuck, like this feels it was out of sort of the COVID of it all. The set experience was really different. We had like big time producers. I felt like there was more eyes on me to you know, succeed or fail. But luckily again I've got so lucky with the group of people we were making it with where like creativity was I was so protected from the bullshit of everything. And we got to film it like in this small town in Canada on a lake and we were like voting to the boating to base camp and it was just it was very disarming, I think for everybody. So it was a really like incredible experience on set, and then it was so I think it really honestly all hit me at Sunbance opening it, which Hillary was there with job, which was so sweet. But to sit there in an audience and it was like a packed theater. It was the biggest theater. I don't even know how many people it was. I think it was like close to a thousand or something, insane. And to have the movie start and then then being like you have to like go out and introduce it and you know, go on stage afterwards, it's like, oh my god, people are going to see this, which felt so it was terrifying. It was probably the most top five terrifying moments of my life for sure, that that first thirty seconds of the film starting and then we got a laugh and like part of me relaxed. I was like, Okay, here we go, and then the roller coaster since then has just been it's like amazing, it's it's been surreal. And everybody kept saying, you know, this is a sundance experience, and people dream about having like soak it up, you know, to be in the middle of a bidding war and having it was just the whole thing was I mean, it was insane. It's hard to metabolize moments like that. You know, it's really crazy.

Yeah, like I yeah, Whennie had just been born, my daughter, and so yeah, it was a very very removed. I like still don't feel like I made that movie and it went out into the world like it's still shocks and we were like the Fall and I still have never seen that movie on the big screen with the cast or an audience, which is also so surreal. The whole thing was really really removed, but also kind of freeing because I got to just I really was like just so not in my head about it because I was like, no, no one's going to see this movie. And then HBO Max bought it and people saw, which was really exciting. And then this time I was definitely having like sophomore album anxiety because I was like, oh, fuck, like this feels it was out of sort of the COVID of it all. The set experience was really different. We had like big time producers. I felt like there was more eyes on me to you know, succeed or fail. But luckily again I've got so lucky with the group of people we were making it with where like creativity was I was so protected from the bullshit of everything. And we got to film it like in this small town in Canada on a lake and we were like voting to the boating to base camp and it was just it was very disarming, I think for everybody. So it was a really like incredible experience on set, and then it was so I think it really honestly all hit me at Sunbance opening it, which Hillary was there with job, which was so sweet. But to sit there in an audience and it was like a packed theater. It was the biggest theater. I don't even know how many people it was. I think it was like close to a thousand or something, insane. And to have the movie start and then then being like you have to like go out and introduce it and you know, go on stage afterwards, it's like, oh my god, people are going to see this, which felt so it was terrifying. It was probably the most top five terrifying moments of my life for sure, that that first thirty seconds of the film starting and then we got a laugh and like part of me relaxed. I was like, Okay, here we go, and then the roller coaster since then has just been it's like amazing, it's it's been surreal. And everybody kept saying, you know, this is a sundance experience, and people dream about having like soak it up, you know, to be in the middle of a bidding war and having it was just the whole thing was I mean, it was insane. It's hard to metabolize moments like that. You know, it's really crazy.

Oh my gosh, where do you do you now being not exactly on the other side of the process, but you're at the point where now it's out in the world. Yeah, you know, And you talk about you filmed this movie three years ago, you know, up on a tiny lake in Canada, like it was so removed and now it's everywhere. Do you feel like you have a different perspective on where the idea for the movie even came from.

Oh my gosh, where do you do you now being not exactly on the other side of the process, but you're at the point where now it's out in the world. Yeah, you know, And you talk about you filmed this movie three years ago, you know, up on a tiny lake in Canada, like it was so removed and now it's everywhere. Do you feel like you have a different perspective on where the idea for the movie even came from.

Yeah, it's I feel like I don't know what parts of myself I'm figuring out while I'm writing until much later in the process, or I'm seeing certain parts of myself in different characters every step of the way, And I think it's yeah, I mean, so much of my life has changed too since I made the movie, Like I had a second kid, I lost my dad really tragically and unexpectedly. So the movie definitely has like a whole new meaning to me in a way that I never could have expected or you know whatever. But I think that, yeah, it's interesting even it felt like such a moment in time. And really that movie had nothing to do with the idea initially of talking to your older, younger self or doing the mushrooms. No, it was really like, there's two moments in the film. One is the idea that there was a last time you played pretend with your friends and you didn't know it was the last time you played pretend, And like, how sad that made me. It was that idea, and also that led to me thinking like I was home during the pandemic and I was like, oh my god, there was one night when my family as a nuclear family before like my sister moved off uent University or this, and that change that we all slept here under this roof for the last time and we didn't know that it was god like as that you know, before things changed. And that thought made me so sad and I was like fuck like, and then I started thinking, if you know it's the last time for me, I would it would definitely ruin it, like I am somebody. I would be like no, like I wouldn't be able to enjoy it. Yeah, And that sort of snowballed into this idea of like how much do you want to know about the past and the future and and is there some sort of full ignorance and like not knowing this something is the last time? Or or is it nice to be able to savor it? And just that kind of thought had me spitballing on just that conversation. But really I was writing the movie very much from like old ass's perspective, and I had just become a mom, and I think so much of this movie was like me reflecting on my childhood and like you start to think about what kind of world do you want to curate for your own children? And I started thinking about this beautiful place in Canada that I grew up in that I was so excited to leave, and then I came back and I was like, it's so magical here. Why did I ever want to leave? So it was it was those feelings really that set the tone like for me wanting to explore this weirdly, like that was really the core of the whole movie for me, and then everything else was just like an avenue to explore that again in a palatable way, like it's kind of a heavy, heavy thought, but I was like, how can I how can I make this not so dark?

Yeah, it's I feel like I don't know what parts of myself I'm figuring out while I'm writing until much later in the process, or I'm seeing certain parts of myself in different characters every step of the way, And I think it's yeah, I mean, so much of my life has changed too since I made the movie, Like I had a second kid, I lost my dad really tragically and unexpectedly. So the movie definitely has like a whole new meaning to me in a way that I never could have expected or you know whatever. But I think that, yeah, it's interesting even it felt like such a moment in time. And really that movie had nothing to do with the idea initially of talking to your older, younger self or doing the mushrooms. No, it was really like, there's two moments in the film. One is the idea that there was a last time you played pretend with your friends and you didn't know it was the last time you played pretend, And like, how sad that made me. It was that idea, and also that led to me thinking like I was home during the pandemic and I was like, oh my god, there was one night when my family as a nuclear family before like my sister moved off uent University or this, and that change that we all slept here under this roof for the last time and we didn't know that it was god like as that you know, before things changed. And that thought made me so sad and I was like fuck like, and then I started thinking, if you know it's the last time for me, I would it would definitely ruin it, like I am somebody. I would be like no, like I wouldn't be able to enjoy it. Yeah, And that sort of snowballed into this idea of like how much do you want to know about the past and the future and and is there some sort of full ignorance and like not knowing this something is the last time? Or or is it nice to be able to savor it? And just that kind of thought had me spitballing on just that conversation. But really I was writing the movie very much from like old ass's perspective, and I had just become a mom, and I think so much of this movie was like me reflecting on my childhood and like you start to think about what kind of world do you want to curate for your own children? And I started thinking about this beautiful place in Canada that I grew up in that I was so excited to leave, and then I came back and I was like, it's so magical here. Why did I ever want to leave? So it was it was those feelings really that set the tone like for me wanting to explore this weirdly, like that was really the core of the whole movie for me, and then everything else was just like an avenue to explore that again in a palatable way, like it's kind of a heavy, heavy thought, but I was like, how can I how can I make this not so dark?

But the interesting thing is the idea of lasts and you know, the stuff you can't wait to leave and then how much you miss it, Like they're so universal, you know that obviously what happens in the film is very specific. This group of friends that decides on one of their last weekends to you know, have a slumber party and take mushrooms. Like maybe not everyone's had that experience, but I think the themes of the film are so universal. We've all felt that sort of longing to leave the nest and then the craving for the nest. And I don't know, there's so much I want to talk to you about in the movie, but that I don't feel like I can talk about on the podcast because I don't want to give anything away. But what has it been like for you to see audience reactions? Because I'm imagining you get some pretty emotional feedback. The movie is so funny, and the second the second sort of fantasy sequence.

But the interesting thing is the idea of lasts and you know, the stuff you can't wait to leave and then how much you miss it, Like they're so universal, you know that obviously what happens in the film is very specific. This group of friends that decides on one of their last weekends to you know, have a slumber party and take mushrooms. Like maybe not everyone's had that experience, but I think the themes of the film are so universal. We've all felt that sort of longing to leave the nest and then the craving for the nest. And I don't know, there's so much I want to talk to you about in the movie, but that I don't feel like I can talk about on the podcast because I don't want to give anything away. But what has it been like for you to see audience reactions? Because I'm imagining you get some pretty emotional feedback. The movie is so funny, and the second the second sort of fantasy sequence.

I was cackling.

I was cackling.

It's such an uplifting film, but it does deal with like some really you know, raw emotional ideas. So what does feedback look like for you.

It's such an uplifting film, but it does deal with like some really you know, raw emotional ideas. So what does feedback look like for you.

I've had a lot of people sob to my face, you know, like it's a lot of people which is so beautiful, and it's almost like it's a huge responsibility. You know, people have been really moved by the film, which you don't ever at least I don't ever think about, Like you don't even want to put your hopes there. I wasn't trying to write something. You know, it's almost too scary to think that anyone's going to even have any reaction to anything you make. That's like too scary a hope to have to be let down by that. I think you think about jokes working or not working because that's easier to try to nail. But the emotional stuff, like you really and in the edit too, you can kind of get a feel for the comedy of what's working and what's not. But you really are just so insulated in that process that you do not know how that's going to hit people until you're in your real first big screening like Sun Dance, but to hear people actually during the there's a moment at the end that I don't want to spoil, but there's like quite an emotional moment, and there was it was so quiet that I started getting nervous as something wasn't working. And then I looked around and I saw people going like this, and I thought, oh my god, people are laughing, and I started freaking because I was like, oh, oh no, this is like the pinnacle of the movie and if this moment doesn't hit like, we've failed, we fucked up. And then I realized that people were crying so hard that it looked like they were like laughing, like they were were eaving sobbing. And then it started to really hit me. I was like, oh my god, this is not fake. This is not like, oh, you know, sniffle, people are being so gutturally, not everybody, but you could see, you know, a lot of people really really really moved, and it was again quite shocking and hard to metabolize. And one of the most interesting things is we keep joking about this, but it is not you know, it's amazing, it's beautiful. But old men have fucking been destroyed by this movie. Like men over sixty, I swear to God, have the most viscerally emotional reactions to this movie because I think there's something about regret and time specifically for old men that really hits them in this film. And we would never in a billion years like even think to target. I'm like, to me, I'm making a movie, and I'm like, if men like it, cool, but who cares, Like that's not who I'm making movies for, so whatever, But old men have really been fucking moved by this movie, which has been really interesting to see and it's also cool to see. There's such different takeaways for people. Like when we tested the movie, young people really related to the younger characters and definitely understood the bigger feelings of like nostalgia and time passing, but they definitely had a different takeaway than people who are sort of the old asses as we would call them, the people over you know, thirty five. I think that feeling of time becoming sort of your worst enemy, that's really your only enemy as you get older is time in so many ways, and that was I think a big, really interesting takeaway for the older audiences. But it's been really beautiful. And when people come up and say, you know, I called my mom, I called my dad, you know, I apologize my parents were being such an asshole when I was younger, things like that. It's really it's really beautiful and so surreal, so surreal to see somebody like move to tears. It's insane.

I've had a lot of people sob to my face, you know, like it's a lot of people which is so beautiful, and it's almost like it's a huge responsibility. You know, people have been really moved by the film, which you don't ever at least I don't ever think about, Like you don't even want to put your hopes there. I wasn't trying to write something. You know, it's almost too scary to think that anyone's going to even have any reaction to anything you make. That's like too scary a hope to have to be let down by that. I think you think about jokes working or not working because that's easier to try to nail. But the emotional stuff, like you really and in the edit too, you can kind of get a feel for the comedy of what's working and what's not. But you really are just so insulated in that process that you do not know how that's going to hit people until you're in your real first big screening like Sun Dance, but to hear people actually during the there's a moment at the end that I don't want to spoil, but there's like quite an emotional moment, and there was it was so quiet that I started getting nervous as something wasn't working. And then I looked around and I saw people going like this, and I thought, oh my god, people are laughing, and I started freaking because I was like, oh, oh no, this is like the pinnacle of the movie and if this moment doesn't hit like, we've failed, we fucked up. And then I realized that people were crying so hard that it looked like they were like laughing, like they were were eaving sobbing. And then it started to really hit me. I was like, oh my god, this is not fake. This is not like, oh, you know, sniffle, people are being so gutturally, not everybody, but you could see, you know, a lot of people really really really moved, and it was again quite shocking and hard to metabolize. And one of the most interesting things is we keep joking about this, but it is not you know, it's amazing, it's beautiful. But old men have fucking been destroyed by this movie. Like men over sixty, I swear to God, have the most viscerally emotional reactions to this movie because I think there's something about regret and time specifically for old men that really hits them in this film. And we would never in a billion years like even think to target. I'm like, to me, I'm making a movie, and I'm like, if men like it, cool, but who cares, Like that's not who I'm making movies for, so whatever, But old men have really been fucking moved by this movie, which has been really interesting to see and it's also cool to see. There's such different takeaways for people. Like when we tested the movie, young people really related to the younger characters and definitely understood the bigger feelings of like nostalgia and time passing, but they definitely had a different takeaway than people who are sort of the old asses as we would call them, the people over you know, thirty five. I think that feeling of time becoming sort of your worst enemy, that's really your only enemy as you get older is time in so many ways, and that was I think a big, really interesting takeaway for the older audiences. But it's been really beautiful. And when people come up and say, you know, I called my mom, I called my dad, you know, I apologize my parents were being such an asshole when I was younger, things like that. It's really it's really beautiful and so surreal, so surreal to see somebody like move to tears. It's insane.

I mean, yeah, I wept no shock there.

I mean, yeah, I wept no shock there.

Now. I've had many friends send me these voice notes after the movie and they're like, they can't even they can't even breathe. Their crimes are and I never know where there to be. It is like amazing. It's so cool to hear people so moved. But you're also like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to like fuck you up. So it's so hard, but it's I know, my bad.

Now. I've had many friends send me these voice notes after the movie and they're like, they can't even they can't even breathe. Their crimes are and I never know where there to be. It is like amazing. It's so cool to hear people so moved. But you're also like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to like fuck you up. So it's so hard, but it's I know, my bad.

And now a word from our sponsors. When you talk about how you wrote it, you know you relate so much, obviously to Aubrey's character, to the older of these two women. If you ever had the opportunity to go back and talk to your seventeen year old self, what do you think you would say.

And now a word from our sponsors. When you talk about how you wrote it, you know you relate so much, obviously to Aubrey's character, to the older of these two women. If you ever had the opportunity to go back and talk to your seventeen year old self, what do you think you would say.

I would say some things that I couldn't say on this podcast that I would say.

I would say some things that I couldn't say on this podcast that I would say.

To you, love it.

To you, love it.

You and I both can't wait to talk about it in an hour.

You and I both can't wait to talk about it in an hour.

I think you could probably know all of them. I think I would try to encourage myself to live more consciously and to be more aware that life doesn't necessarily have to happen to you, like you can make things happen. I feel like I was almost late to kind of become alert and become aware, and I was just sort of following whatever kind of came to me. And I wish that I could sort of like wake myself up a little bit and be like, life, whatever you want to have happened in life, you can make have happened. Life isn't happening to you. And I was really inspired by Mazie because she and a lot of younger people that I've worked with, they are so alert and aware and so conscious, and she and also so blissfully young and naive in so many beautiful ways. I think the movie touches on it's like this bravery that young people have, but it was really cool to I was just not like that at her age, Like it was amazing working with her and she was already kind of like, oh, you know, like my mom and really like connected with those feelings of like, I don't want to be an asshole my mom and time is going by so quickly and really knows what she wants and is like going after it. And it was really inspiring and beautiful to work with so many young people who already have that, and it made me wish I could go back, and I wish like a seventeen year old we could hang out with seventeen year old Mazy and be inspired by that energy.

I think you could probably know all of them. I think I would try to encourage myself to live more consciously and to be more aware that life doesn't necessarily have to happen to you, like you can make things happen. I feel like I was almost late to kind of become alert and become aware, and I was just sort of following whatever kind of came to me. And I wish that I could sort of like wake myself up a little bit and be like, life, whatever you want to have happened in life, you can make have happened. Life isn't happening to you. And I was really inspired by Mazie because she and a lot of younger people that I've worked with, they are so alert and aware and so conscious, and she and also so blissfully young and naive in so many beautiful ways. I think the movie touches on it's like this bravery that young people have, but it was really cool to I was just not like that at her age, Like it was amazing working with her and she was already kind of like, oh, you know, like my mom and really like connected with those feelings of like, I don't want to be an asshole my mom and time is going by so quickly and really knows what she wants and is like going after it. And it was really inspiring and beautiful to work with so many young people who already have that, and it made me wish I could go back, and I wish like a seventeen year old we could hang out with seventeen year old Mazy and be inspired by that energy.

Yes, I totally get that, you know, even you saying that you wish you could tell your younger self that you can be a little more in control. I feel like I've intellectually understood that that was true. I don't think I've understood that that was true for me until the last I don't know, twelve eighteen months. Maybe, Yeah, like I realize that, and it's even a thing I like about myself. I My reaction is often to serve, to be in community, to gather, to want to, you know, create goodness in the face of things that are. But I've really thought a lot this year about, well, what if it wasn't so reactive, and what if I shifted into more proactivity, Like what if I cared about my own life the way I care about everyone else's lives.

Yes, I totally get that, you know, even you saying that you wish you could tell your younger self that you can be a little more in control. I feel like I've intellectually understood that that was true. I don't think I've understood that that was true for me until the last I don't know, twelve eighteen months. Maybe, Yeah, like I realize that, and it's even a thing I like about myself. I My reaction is often to serve, to be in community, to gather, to want to, you know, create goodness in the face of things that are. But I've really thought a lot this year about, well, what if it wasn't so reactive, and what if I shifted into more proactivity, Like what if I cared about my own life the way I care about everyone else's lives.

You know, yes, no, it's exactly that I mean. And you know it's so funny is everyone's notes to me always in scripts, are your lead characters aren't active enough? They're so reactive? They always tell me that, and I'm like, well, that's part of the journey. But yeah, I feel the same way, like I say, you don't say yeah, and I think that's I don't know if it's like also our generation. I hate to like say, are but there wasn't. I don't know. I felt like, especially being an actor and just being a young woman at the time that we were, and I don't know, really like in that position, I never felt like I could say anything like I was just I was just there and people were telling you what to do, and it was not the vibe to even have an opinion. So maybe that's why I didn't let myself go there.

You know, yes, no, it's exactly that I mean. And you know it's so funny is everyone's notes to me always in scripts, are your lead characters aren't active enough? They're so reactive? They always tell me that, and I'm like, well, that's part of the journey. But yeah, I feel the same way, like I say, you don't say yeah, and I think that's I don't know if it's like also our generation. I hate to like say, are but there wasn't. I don't know. I felt like, especially being an actor and just being a young woman at the time that we were, and I don't know, really like in that position, I never felt like I could say anything like I was just I was just there and people were telling you what to do, and it was not the vibe to even have an opinion. So maybe that's why I didn't let myself go there.

Well, what I also think is sort of wild is at least for me, I'm like, oh, I had plenty of opinions, but it was.

Well, what I also think is sort of wild is at least for me, I'm like, oh, I had plenty of opinions, but it was.

Always a fight.

Always a fight.

It was always so hard to even be heard that the idea that you could fight for more than just being heard, not even necessarily being listened to, but the idea that you could take control and write a narrative for yourself. Like it never, it didn't cross my mind for so long.

It was always so hard to even be heard that the idea that you could fight for more than just being heard, not even necessarily being listened to, but the idea that you could take control and write a narrative for yourself. Like it never, it didn't cross my mind for so long.

No, I think it's just crossing my mind right now. Actually, as we're having these conversations good morning, I just look up. Yeah I know, No, it's I mean, and yeah, it's it's it changes so much. I actually this thought as I was driving the other day because I've realized, like you were saying, sort of your go to is to serve, and now my go to as I'm processing some many crazy changes in my life and different things, is like I immediately, instead of dealing with them myself, I like create a character or multiple characters that are all pieces of me, and I like come up with a story that is not a direct reflection of what I'm trying to figure out, and then I work out what I'm going through through that story, which is what I've done in both of my movies and when I look back on it, but I was like, what is what do other people do? Because I'm like, if I didn't have this, if I didn't have this ability to write and create these characters and have these conversations that I want to be having with people secretly, you know, with two other people, or about something else. But it's really about what I want to talk about. Yeah, layered in, I don't know what I would do because it's like the only coping mechanism in so many ways, maybe the healthiest coping mechanism that I have.

No, I think it's just crossing my mind right now. Actually, as we're having these conversations good morning, I just look up. Yeah I know, No, it's I mean, and yeah, it's it's it changes so much. I actually this thought as I was driving the other day because I've realized, like you were saying, sort of your go to is to serve, and now my go to as I'm processing some many crazy changes in my life and different things, is like I immediately, instead of dealing with them myself, I like create a character or multiple characters that are all pieces of me, and I like come up with a story that is not a direct reflection of what I'm trying to figure out, and then I work out what I'm going through through that story, which is what I've done in both of my movies and when I look back on it, but I was like, what is what do other people do? Because I'm like, if I didn't have this, if I didn't have this ability to write and create these characters and have these conversations that I want to be having with people secretly, you know, with two other people, or about something else. But it's really about what I want to talk about. Yeah, layered in, I don't know what I would do because it's like the only coping mechanism in so many ways, maybe the healthiest coping mechanism that I have.

I think yours is a really good one. Like I have not known what to do with myself for a week, and so yesterday I spent six hours that my storage in it like cleaning out, making donation piles, organizing. Right, I was like I needed a tactile, physical thing, and I'm like, god, it would be so cool if instead I just wrote myself a movie.

I think yours is a really good one. Like I have not known what to do with myself for a week, and so yesterday I spent six hours that my storage in it like cleaning out, making donation piles, organizing. Right, I was like I needed a tactile, physical thing, and I'm like, god, it would be so cool if instead I just wrote myself a movie.

I mean, let's do that. No, that's what I do. It's it's but it's so yeah, it's a you could totally do that. You could totally do that. I believe that you could. We can do that together. But yeah, it's really it's an interesting And I also like, literally as I'm writing, I will put on one song on repeat for like thousands of times, and it helps me to just like literally go into another dimension and like figure shit out, and then I like, what was your song for my old best It's it's so so random that I don't think anyone knows it besides Macie. I've never said it. Okay, I'll tell you if you want. It's not like that embarrassing. It's a good song.

I mean, let's do that. No, that's what I do. It's it's but it's so yeah, it's a you could totally do that. You could totally do that. I believe that you could. We can do that together. But yeah, it's really it's an interesting And I also like, literally as I'm writing, I will put on one song on repeat for like thousands of times, and it helps me to just like literally go into another dimension and like figure shit out, and then I like, what was your song for my old best It's it's so so random that I don't think anyone knows it besides Macie. I've never said it. Okay, I'll tell you if you want. It's not like that embarrassing. It's a good song.

I mean, he's up to you. If you want it out in the.

I mean, he's up to you. If you want it out in the.

World, I'll put it on in the world. Okay. So I mad respect to this artist. I actually I think it's the only song of hers I have on my playlist. I don't know how it came into my stratosphere. I don't know how it got on there. And I don't even know why it was this song because there's nothing to do with the movie at all. It was The Bones by Maren Morris. Oh my god, love great song. But just like how random is that I would put on the Bones and I would write for I mean, I listened that song thousands. There was also a few like later on that came in like it was sometimes changed, but I remember initially and I would always screenshot that and send it to people, like a few people who knew what and they'd be like, oh, you're writing you know, and for the fallout. It was like something else, really random. It was like some kind of rap song. I don't know, it's so funny.