Work in Progress with Sophia BushOnscreen, he's known for saving lives as Ben Warren on Station 19 and Grey's Anatomy. Offscreen, he's making a real difference as the chair of SAG-AFTRA's Diversity Advisory Committee and as an advocate for gun safety.
Actor Jason George joins his 'fellow circus performer' Sophia for an insightful chat about how his upbringing led to his activism and union work, being in the negotiating room when the actors went on strike, saying an emotional goodbye to Station 19, and returning to Grey's!
Jason also talks about his new passion project - flipping the script on how guns are portrayed in the media and making gun safety cool. To learn more about Hollywood, Health & Society's 'Trigger Warning: Gun Guidelines for the Media' in collaboration with Brady, the nation's oldest gun violence prevention group, visit hollywoodhealthandsociety.org.
Hi, everyone, it's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello and happy week to all my whip smarties out there. I'm really really looking forward to today's interview. I'm going to sit down with a fellow circus performer, which is what so many of us in the industry affectionately call the performers in the sag after Union. Today's guest is none other than actor Jason George. You likely know him from playing Miranda Bailey's husband, doctor Ben Warren on Grey's Anatomy and Station nineteen. Jason is an absolutely incredible human off screen as well as the wonderful characters that he plays on screen, and today I'm going to talk to him about discovering his true calling, having grown up a military kid on the East Coast, how his upbringing led him to get really active within our own union, advocating for better protection for workers, and his latest and deepest passion project, working to help solve the gun violence crisis in America. Jason is a spokesperson working to change the way that guns are portrayed in the media. A year ago, Hollywood Health and Society at the USC and and Berg Norman Lear Center released a really impactful and significant studies surrounding guns in the media, and based on that study, HHS has teamed up with Brady, the nation's oldest gun violence prevention organization, to raise awareness around this incredibly important topic, and Jason is helping lead the charge with Brady, HHS, every Town and Mom's Demand. He is an incredibly inspiring human someone I feel really lucky to have as a peer in my industry, both in my day job and in my activism work. And I can't wait for you all to hear from enjoy. Hey, hi, Jason, how are you good?
How are you feeling?
I'm well?
Thanks? Where do I Where do I find you today? Where are you in the world?
I am back in the studio city, Los Angeles.
I'm back home. We were running around Italy for.
A few weeks.
Yeah, it's my wife and I was a twenty fifth wedding anniversary.
So oh my goodness.
Good Italy is our spot, you know.
We this is like we've been itly a bunch of times and taking a cake a bunch of times.
Yeah, well that's so fun. I look forward to that, like sort of all my friends are in the range where everybody's kids are too little to do international travel. But when I see my friends who have like kids that are ten to twelve or that are teenagers and they're bopping around, I'm like, God, that would be so cool to get to show them the world.
It's the whole point. It is literally the I mean the funny part is that, like, you know, we have a twenty year old son, and that we have twins that are sixteen year olds.
Oh my god.
And when they were born we were buried.
So like like all of your friends who have little kids and like do only certain things, like you know, they go to like going to the local restaurant is a big outing. Yeah that for like three years, three years we were just on like life. If you walk slowly in front of my house, I just handed you a kid.
Yeah I need to know you just hold hold this for a second.
Yeah, I mean, oh my goodness. Okay, So I love I love the tangential parenting moment because it actually, in a really interesting way, points back to the thing I normally like to ask people first, which is about yourself as a child, because like, look me as the person interviewing you. So many of the folks who are going to listen to this episode, like, we know, we know you as grown up Jason George, we know you from work, like you you've been our beloved Ben for fourteen years, like og Grays fan over here. You know you carried him onto other shows. Like it's so easy to think you know someone because you have observed their body of work, right, And so I'm curious, especially because you're a dad, if from this point in your life, if you were to hang out with your eight year old self, like, would you like him? What was he into? Did he know he was going to be an artist? Like, like, do you see how that little boy became the man you are today? Or has it all sort of happened, you know, by by miracle and happenstance?
Now? Is you know? Is that that's a that's a good question. That is a good first question that would have had somebody. Could I have seen him as a artists? Yeah? I was a goofy I was a goofy show off, uh smart ality little kid. But at the same time, I'm I'm the middle child and one of three boys, and so I was also you know, all of the I liked all I believe in all of the good stuff that psychiatrists say about middle kids like I got to be the baby for four years and then I got to be the big brother, and so, you know, and so I'm I I. Uh I was a rule follower on the surface, like I was the good kid as far as you could see. Uh I was. And I was in fact a good hearted kid. We were never trying to damage anything. But and my older brother is part of the reason for this. We were mischievous kids. We were really mischievous kids, and so had.
A sense of humor.
Oh, the sense of humor was like huge in my house.
It was there. The whole thing was you know, I mean, like we you know, my mom and my mom and dad split up, you know, and it was on a low train, the slowest rolling divorce of all time, like over the course of like ten years and just slowly. My dad was like less and less around it, and he was like never around.
But like you know, money troubles and everything like that.
Mom was always the you know, like you know the phrase rob Peter to pay Paul. It's like I should have like a tattoo that says that phrase, because that was like my mom's whole phrase. And she would just lap because she's like better than crying, I mean, and that was her whole take. So our whole perspective on life from birth was just like, hey man, you know it's it's it can it can always be worse, So you know, so enjoy wherever you're at, even if today's pretty crappy, you know, you know, laugh about it, find somebody and find something, find something to just howeverasil it is.
If you enjoy or whatever you're on grade, it's danced out and that sort of thing.
But I mean, it's you know, and then my mother, uh and my dad actually both loved music, and that's what it thinks. So it was like there was always music playing in the house and uh, and there was a that joy in the middle of whatever was going on. I mean, so that's kind of like how I lived, Like I'm always I'm always going to be good where I'm at, And even as a kid, that was kind of the thing, like.
Whatever group you dropped me in, I'd find a way to hang.
I mean, I was I was just smart enough to hang with the smart kids, just cool enough to hang to like get into the cool kid party. I'm never the leader of any of these groups. I can just just hang with them, you know. And I was, I was a geek, but uh but at the end of the day, I'm I'm you know, the nerd in me is real. You know that age you talk about eight year old me, that's around the time that I discovered comic books and all that stuff. Uh, and the imagination blew wide open. And it was like Martin Luther King. Every kid did their book report back then on you know, a booker Team Washington or you know.
And so like I had this dream of, like, you.
Know, being one of those people who argue in your thirdod Marshal, like arguing a case. And I mean like I thought, like being that kind of smart person who actually made change in the world, that'd be cool. So that was the plan and that was the goal. Uh. But you always saw this kind of creative bent underneath it that like, but no nobody does it. I'm from a military town. I mean where I grew up is you know, Virginia Beach. Virginia is the largest naval base in the world. So like, yeah, and all my friends, all of my parents, my dad was navy. Like, you know, arts was not a thing that people did for a living. You know, you love, you know, music is cool and everything like that, but that's other people do all that kind of stuff, you know, and I think it's not even a thing that was like, you know so but uh, you know, but second grade play, I robbed the line gotta laugh, you know, and it's stuck. It's stuck in the back of the brain.
We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. So then when you fast forward to, you know, joining a show like Gray's in twenty ten, did that feel intimidating? Were you excited? Had you watched the show before?
Like, yeah, yeah, I mean look, I mean my wife and I when we work out, we work out separately, and she she will tend to watch her you know, quote unquote chick flicks, and I'll watch like just explosion after explosion.
This is back in the day. Pandemic changed her. Now she's all blood and guts. Now she's like.
Vikings and like, you know, yeah, apocalyptic, Like she's a whole different persons of the pandemic. And I'm like, you changed. As I clutch the pearls and look at her, I'm like, you know, sleeping with one eye open. But she would watch, you know, in the role was if whatever you're watching turn out to the really good, like the chick Flick turned out to be when Harry met Sally, stop it, bring it in, we'll watch it together, because now it's now it's Cinela, Now it's I mean or whatever. A friend of hers gave the DVD set of Gray's Anatomy and she got like two episodes and stopped it, came in and said you should watch this with me.
And that was probably around.
Season three or four or something like that, and so she and I started watching it, and I was like, this is dope. This is most men, Like you'd be surprised how many men totally have the fan reaction and then try and play it off like it's because why watch it my girlfriend a wife?
Oh yeah, honey, try being on One Tree Hill. It's the same thing.
One hundred percent right, And you're like, bruh, if you knew my character name, you were not just watching, because.
Yeah, you're invested. My favorite vibe is always, like you know, being on location somewhere, everybody goes out for beers, like Friday night after you wrap, and there's always some guy in a bar that's like, oh, I know you, my girlfriend loves your show. And then I can tell when he's had like three or four beers and he's like when Brooke couldn't have a baby. I was that was just like really heavy and it really made me understand what women go through. And I'm like, yeah, your girlfriend loves the show.
I guess right, get.
Just one or two beers. Oh, you know an occasion guy, he'll be like, you know who just owned it? Yeah, I kind of thing. But I was out to dinner with a friend the other day and this is.
Here in Los Angeles, and nobody in Los Angeles cares right, or at least you're supposed to play it off like you don't.
I don't know what happened to dude.
He stopped, but Grace is one of those shows that like will pierce that veil, and like dude was like he was like, came over to the table, just interrupted. I don't mean to interrupt, and you know, listen, can't get a photo, you know, and he was like, can I get a photo for my wife was a huge fan of the show and everything like that, don't you know. Oh boy got in there right next to me as he did the selfie the whole night.
And I was like, right right, it's freet we are men of action.
Lies.
Yes, that's so sweet, but.
Yeah, but I really wanted to. So I was.
I was a big fan of the show before I ever did it, And so I've been in the game for a minute before that. I've done like, you know, a bunch of series, and it'd been a while since i'd been nervous on a set. And that first day, maybe two days, I was like, I'll screw this up. And it was just a guest spot. It was literally just a guest spot. It was only oh, Ben was supposed to do like three four episodes and then like do Miranda dirty, like you know, cheating her, like be a player, and then like be out like break her heart is what I understand the storyline was supposed to be. I think they did that storyline with I think they pulled that storyline a little bit later on with with Joe Camilla's character. Okay, I think they did it a little bit later on with her character. And but for whatever reason, Shanda, god bless her, you know, said put.
That ride for a minute.
Let's not let's not end that just yet, and that was even when like, uh, because I had done a pilot for Shonda that that didn't go and that was my introduction into shondaaland got a great relationship with and everything like that. And then they offered me the guest spot to come and play Ben and I was like, yeah, I just want to come through the show.
I just want to hang out.
And I was like but I also knew like the show at that point even had a history of like you start as a guest star, maybe you can stick around for a minute, but you know, you assume, you know, we're actors. You know, you're like, this is just gonna this is this is the gate. You show up, you join the circus for the day, and then you go home and do your thing well.
And even when you're supposed to show up, maybe it's not going to happen. Like I was supposed to start a new project on Tuesday, and they were like, so we've lost the insurance on our main location and can you just stay in New York for a while. And I'm sit tight, Sit tight, and you're like, gall it, it's the circus. It's an industry, and it's it's technical and it's really well scheduled. And then it's also just like you're at the mercy of nonsense.
A lot of moving parts we are, Cardiff. I mean like, you know, hey, man, we're not doing the show tonight. I mean, we're not doing the show tonight.
Man.
You know, things get you know, any day, things can get canceled, that sort of thing. You know, So it's, uh, it's it's all that, but uh, but you know, it's stuck. It's even when I was doing other shows, they didn't move me off. I mean I did a because when I guest starred, I then did a pilot, uh another pilot for her that took and it was a series that we did for like six months in Hawaii, and and the fact they let me and again the power of having really good people who also happen to be tremendously powerful in the industry, you know, and you know, so they didn't eliminate my character, and I kept guest starting. So I would literally fly from Hawaii, fly back to like do a couple of episodes, you do like a couple of days on Grays, and then like go back. So that's amazing.
It was real break. It was an absolute blessing.
I also love when you've got people in power that don't kind of weaponize their ego. You know, so often you hear, well, once you're on a show, they're going to own you. Like they've got you. They'll never let you work on something else. And I think like the ripple effect of Shanda saying no, you will absolutely be on these two projects for me, and we're not going to give up a storyline just because good things are happening for you as a performer. You know. Now you cut to I mean the year that like Reese and Carrie Washington did little fires everywhere while Reese and Nicole Kidman and you know, Zoe Kravitz were doing big little lies, and it's like you could actually just go do the good work if you'd be willing to not say, well, if you're on one show, you can't be on this one. It's so dumb.
Well, it's so dumb.
And also the business that you and I have been here for a minute, the business is totally different than it was, and social media changed it. I mean, you know better than anybody, but it's you know, the cross planization. It's like, you know, I'll bring the audience from that thing over to this thing and vice versa, like let's rise and tide floats all boats.
So let's float some boats.
People, Let's get out there, let's let's go. Let a thoroughbred run. And so that mentality, I suppose, the scarcy, the mentality of uh, you're you're you know, I don't share my toys and you want to buy toys. It's hey, everybody go have fun. I mean, I remember saying with Betsy Beers, who's a Shanda's producing partner, if you see Sean, you know, produce by Shonda Rhymes, you'll see produce by Betsy beersh She's a I joke with you. I jokingly say that, you know, she's the ginger Rogers to Shonda spread as fare makes the whole thing. Where Betsy was like, we believe in building a company, an old school theater company and keeping everybody happy. They're like if you're if you're happy, you're gonna work harder and better. And that's sort of thing.
And that was the truth. Like I flew home, they they on off the map.
When I was shooting in Hawaii, in addition to coming back to occasionally shoot Grace, I tried to turn down off the bat, you know, and at the time I was just moving into that, like, you know, offer only blah blah blah thah. I wasn't quite there, and so like they were like, I've done the pilot for Shonda. I get They'd offer me the guest spot to play Ben and then they were like, so Shanda wants you to come in and A well, no, the network wants you to come in an audition for the Shanda's New show.
And I was like cool.
I was super excited and then found I had shot in Hawaii and my oldest kid was in first grade, twins just started preschool. I was like, Dad needs to me, you know, military kid knows. I was like, no, I'm gonna big ill. You're not gonna forget my face. I need to be home. I can't do it. So I turned down the audition. They said, they want you to come in and test for can't do it, they said, And finally was like, they're straight off me there. I was like, I can't do and finally like Shonda called me and goes what the hell?
And I was like cause I was like, you know.
The whole time, I was like, if I go in with thelationship, I have now and looking at this role, I can do this role, I can kill this role, and it's exactly the kind of thing I want to do. And then they wrote the show so that like I had three day weekends, at least three day weekends, like at least three weekends a month. That's he was like, we're gonna screw it up once or twice, but we'll basically get you home three weekends out of the month for like a long weekend you can do the family thing. And I was like, that can work for my family thing. And the whole thing was they were like and by the way, if you watch the show, you'll never notice that the characters been I didn't even realize that. Like Audie McDonald, they did the same thing for her on private practice, which is why they were like, no, that's a doable thing. So she could get home there at the time, her kid was in New York, you know. So it was like having powerful people who, like you said, don't weaponize your ego. And in fact, just because the natural inclination is to say no to anybody in this town, because no means even when yes is obviously the right answer, yes, it's creatively right Yes, gets you more money, But yes means you got to learn new stuff. Yes means that we've got to you know, this thing's a week dip. No means things stay exactly the way they are. I don't have to rethink. I don't have to learn anything new. I don't have to change anything that I've been doing all along. But the same is also boring. Is a reason why we're in this business because we didn't want to sit behind the desk. We want to, like, you know, we want to explore new stuff. We want to get out there. Even you're doing the same job, every day is way different. I mean, so today we're going to blow something up. Today, you're going to reach into a woman's something can pull her baby out. You're gonna, you know, something insane is going to happen today. So uh yeah. So they when they say trying to find a way to make Yes work and then trying to went and wrote the book, her book.
You know, Year of Yes, And I was like, so she's just you know, she inspired.
Mese on multiple levels. And I think that she responded to the fact that I was actually trying to take care of my family.
Yes, uh, And I think that's one of the things that like work for her.
So it's that, I mean, she has a thing at the end of her email that says, uh, if you're she used to have it, I'm trying to remember if she still has it. It's that if you were reading this email after send clock at night, maybe go be with your people. Yeah, I mean, and like, that's your boss having right, but the priorities are straight. I'll do anything for I'll do That's.
The kind of theater company I want to be in.
Like, and that's I think there are more people in this business starting to get that, starting to realize's let's enjoy it. Let's not kill ourselves doing the job. Let's let the job actually feed our life instead of suck life out of us.
Well, because that's the thing. If you turn, if you turn the immense good fortune to be creative for a living into a punishment, it feels like it feels like a like a multiplier of x kind of disservice, like we should be. Yes, the hours are grueling, Yes, it can be totally insane. Yes, having to be on a plane every seventy eight hours can be nuts. But how lucky Still, how lucky And like let's let it be fun.
We make believe for living. It's the most fundamental human thing that has ever existed, and we get to do it for a living.
It's an absolute blessing.
So like, you know, you know, tired, sleepless, whatever, whatever, I'm like, hey man, the dream.
The dream. Yeah, I love that. You got to also do something that you know, it's not as common in our business, but I got to do a little bit of it working across the network the universe rather of Dick Wolf shows, and you did it in Shondaland, and you went from Gray's on to Station nineteen back onto Grays. Like taking these characters out into bigger worlds, I think is just so cool. Like the day that I showed up for my first day on SVU as my character from PD, I just was like, what is happening? Like I'm having the best day. It was my most favorite part of my job. Was it super exciting for you to get to do that, to get to explore this new world but under the same umbrella one.
Hundred I mean in this you know, I mean look and I can I can only imagine because I mean mine was we had the same experience with slightly different you going on SVU, because being a guest star is like the hardest job in all of Hollywood, with the possible exception of being a guest director, because you got to like because you're in somebody else's sandbox, but you've got to like bring this whole person. And on our show, I tell the guest stars all the time, I'm like extra love on the guest stars because they've got a boohoo with their like loved one dying on this you know, you know, the love of their life dying on the table, or their kid big, you know, and they've got to like carry so much emotional weight and all this crazy stuff and then be funny in the middle of it and all this stuff. And they're like they know they're on this like show that's been around for twenty one you know, it's like this juggernaut, and so like they're they're really out of their element, and they've got to be. They got to do this thing that is only done well when you are most comfortable. I mean act, You've got to be You've got to be comfortable in order to act properly. So I always feel like I got to cheat, you know, you got cheat a little bit. You're going into you know, Mariska's territory, but you're playing a character that you knew intimately. You know this character inside and out down to our DNA, so you still knew, like, I know this character. So even though this is not my set, this character is my joint. I got this, you know. I got to take a character that I knew intimately and go to a show that was being created.
And helped create that atmosphere.
How cool.
So to like be on the ground floor of like yo, like this is in the greatest compliment. I'm about to get tierry for a second, because you know, we just rapped nineteen only a few months ago. I literally two nights ago, had had drinks with my my DP and first a D on the episodes that I directed. They're in there there, my guys, and uh. But Peter Page, the showrunner of the show, said to me and we were just talking about the other day and they were laughing because his compliment to me was, you don't know how much grief we escaped because it was understood amongst cast and crew.
Oh, Jason would never like that's fly.
I mean like like, oh, you're about to throw one at it's like, and I'm all about respect. So if you disrespect me, we got a problem.
And I'm going to talk to you in.
An intellectual like way, like we're gonna like you will not disrespect me. But I also do not do diva Like diva is not It does not play in my world. And you know, you know, And so that was the thing that like he said that to me, and I was like, I've been good with the ending of the show up to that point, you know, and like that was when I was like, you're not gonna make me.
Correct, go get me, don't do it.
Yeah, yeah, we'll be back in just minute. But here's a word from our sponsors. I also love that that was something so well respected in you. I think that speaks to the environment. You know. I like to sit squarely in that space as well, treat everyone with immense respect. Especially I like to go out of my way to make, as you were saying, guest stars feel really comfortable, especially if someone's going to come in for an arc, you know, seven years into a show. I was just talking to my girlfriend from Wintree Hill, my friend Janna, about this, and she was like, I never even told you what it meant to me, like when I showed up there for three months that you took me to dinner, you took me shopping, you showed me around town. I was like, girl, I remember what it felt like to show up on that set and be terrified.
Like I get it right, that's and that's what is. It's remembering it like never forgetting what it is.
I think that's like Shonda's superpower or like Taylor Swift's superpower. Is what's like to be a fan?
Yes, oh my god, me neither. My friend's making fun of me all the time. We'll go to you know whatever we got to go do, like the SAG Awards, and they're like, you are a famous person. You can't behave this way around other famous people.
I'm like, but do you know what it is like?
And I like that it's never I've never gotten jaded about it. And what I'm happy to see shifting is like that thing you talk about. There's such leadership and strength. And I think particularly for you, as you know, a charismatic man with a nice voice like you get to come in and say this is what respect looks like. Years ago for me, I would find that if I would talk about where the boundaries were, like respect is required and this kind of behavior won't be tolerated in this workplace. I got a lot of like, well, you can't talk to people about that, that's not your job. And I was like why because I'm the girl and I'm just supposed to be nice, sweet and cute. And it's a cool experience too. I think see sets with diverse kinds of leadership, whether that's in terms of you know, gender, race, whatever diversity qualifier you want to fill in, because the more diversity of leadership there is, the more respect there is for different kinds of leadership as well. And you see how that makes everybody feel more respected and empowered to be the best worker. They can be the best leader, they can be the best partner, they can be the best advocate they can be. And like I got to say again, just as a you know, as a fan and a peer, watching the way you navigate that in the conversations you've been willing to have about what a hair and makeup trailer should be capable of. So the actors of color don't walk into a set and go, oh, I'm not going to be taken care of here. What the vibe should be on set where everyone feels immensely respected, but nobody has the you know, and nobody has the space to be difficult. How you have to be professional and you deserve to be treated well, but you shouldn't have your ego stroked. How you have a platform, you have to spend that privilege and do good for the world, Like you're out here doing all the things that I believe in in the core of my being. And so I don't know, I hope it doesn't sound like cheesy, but I also want to say thank you because we are part of a circus and when we go out and advocate sometimes people say, well, how dare you And it's like, y'all, we're just here because we're like weird union workers, so of course we're going to defend unions, and of course we're going to defend our people. And so I don't know. When I see other people like carrying all, you know, putting all of those things in their backpack and marching along, I really appreciate it.
No, I got mad love for you.
I mean not to turn it into the mutual love fest, but but you know, look, my mom would say, you know, when you have eyes on you. It's your duty to turn that days to what they need to be looking at.
I mean, don't make it about you.
Make it about like, look at this thing that's really important or like you should be making and you are all about that have been since day one, and use the platform good and then the whole and then this world where people are like, you know, shut up and dribble. Celebrities should keep their mouths shut, and I'm like, no, everybody should be talking, but everybody should be making sure they actually really do their research and have their stuff type. I mean, so you know, like I have friends who are like, how do you not get blow Like I don't get that much blowback when I advocate for stuff on social media. I'm like, how do you not get the blowback? And I go, well, part of it is I say it like I'm sitting with you at the dinner table. I mean, because I'm from a like I said, a military town in Virginia, a very purple state, you know, Like I have tons of friends that are very conservative, very religious, very right, you know that sort of thing. And I'm like, but at the end of the day, if I talk to you and we're trying to solve a problem as opposed to win some theoretical debate. I mean, if I talk like a human being, then you can't get that. You can't get mad. I mean, we can disagree, but you can't, you know, like so like in solving the problems on sets, or solving the problems in the industry, and I mean like working with SAG after and being in rooms.
I was in the.
Negotiating room for you when we went on strike, and there was are you know, knee deep in that. But there have been three times where I was ever where I thought to myself, I think I just ended my career. And I was like, I was like, I'm gonna go home. My wife's going to be really really upset with me. She was like, maybe you should shut them up. But the reality is it doesn't happen. And the reason why is because business is business. And when you approach business from a take care of your workers. I'm one of your workers. Here's what we need to do a better job for you and for us, like help us, help you, right, you know, And so when you approach it from the we're trying to solve problems here, I'm going to show you, mister City Executive, mister cdeo, mister whoever it is that's in position of power, that's management. I'm going to show you problems that are problems for us that will become your problem. Yes, Like if I if I don't have health care, that's going to become your problem. Very free. I mean if I do't have if I can't feed my family, if I have to get a second job, guess what my productivity at you is going to go weigh down, Like, so let's help me help you.
And when you come in from that.
Standpoint, it's real hard to get mad at folks. You know, they might be annoyed because it's like it's going to cost me money. But again, it's a business. You got to spend money to make money. Bro, you knew that you got in the gate, you knew you know, it's what you started up for. So when you approach it from that kind of like, let's solve problems, not win debates or win fights, Yes, then I think people chill out. And I think when you go on social media and you're trying to solve problems and you talk to people like they're actually instead of looking for the ultimate clap back and you know, let me uh, you know, let me make sure I get my likes.
It's like I will take fewer likes and actually have people actually.
Hear my same instead of just preaching to people who agree with me and just want to shout down the other side and win that absolutely win some philosophical debate.
What was it like sitting on the board because you know, now you're also the chair of the National Union's Diversity Advisory Committee, so you have stayed in this leadership role in SAG since the strike. And one of the things I found really impressive about it is that it finally helped poke holes in this illusion that like all the Hollywood people are privileged, you know, and that everyone's just rolling in money. It's like, no, most of us are circus performers and most of the people in our union are working paycheck to paycheck, Like, come on, y'all at best, and you know, I think people finally, especially I thought it was really really powerful when Taraji opened up about what it actually looks looks like to be a business as an entertainer, and you start to say like, yeah, guys, if I make a dollar, my agent makes ten cents, my manager makes ten cents. My lawyer takes, you know, depending on the job, five to ten cents. A publicist takes ten cents. If you have an assistant to help you manage your life because you're on set for eighteen hours a day, they're taking ten cents. The government's taken thirty seven. Like, got I got to make a dollar to maybe take home ten or fifteen cents? And people go, oh shit, and it's like, yeah, I eat. Everybody eats. It's kind of why when we talk about like healthcare, we're like, well, there is enough money, Like maybe if we didn't charge thirty thousand dollars for an MRI that you know, oversees costs a nine hundred bucks, Like, there is actually enough money to keep the people healthy. You just got to split it up a little bit better. And I think a lot of people went, oh, we didn't realize this about your industry. We didn't understand what your unions did. We didn't totally get that. You know, the Actors' union's on set with the construction Union and the transportation union. It's like, yeah, we're just a bunch of weirdos, like hanging out trying to entertain you. I thought it was so powerful to tell more of the truth and to really talk about workers' rights from you know, these platforms that we have, as you say, you know, to I always the way your mom talks about I always say like, oh, if you turn the spotlight on me, I'm gonna grab it and turn it back like over here. And I guess I just wonder, like, after all these years, you know, because you talk about your career, and obviously fourteen years in Shondaland is huge, but like you have, you know, more than fifty guest starring roles in nine series regular roles, and like you have been a working actor for a long time. What was it like to rather than just get behind the camera, like get behind the boardroom table and really start to see inside union leadership.
No, it's funny because actually that's that's that precedes any of the what people did describe a success and acting.
Wait, your your work with the union.
I've been working with the union since like for almost my entire time in the industry. Uh, to be dead dead.
Honestly, do not know that I'm a union kid.
I'm a super labor guy because unions built the middle class in this country. You know, you like having they worked with it. They can't you know, they can't work you seven days a week for four hours a day. You know your union did that. You're welcome. I mean most people get their health insurance through their work because unions fought for it.
I mean unions eight hour work days.
I could just go on and on and on, workers compensation for injury at work, all of it.
My mom was president of the teachers Union where I grew up.
UH, And my mom was a She taught learning disabled kids UH in middle school in Norvil, Virginia.
Then you know Norfolk, Virginia.
Basically it's all right, there's one city, like you drive five minutes here in Norfolk. And she was the president of the Novel Education Association, and then when she retired from the classroom, she went to work for the Virginia Beach Education Association throughout the Virginia Education Association is like, I can't tell you how many when I you know, I'll do I'll still do, you know, I'll you know, Virginia politics, how many like people who are in an elected office know my mom and that sort of thing. She's just that person, she like is not a quiet woman, and she is like this force of nature kind of person. Having that as my north star. As I'm thinking about becoming an actor, there were two things. I was like, let me figure out, and this is her thing from being an educator, I'm following on this. She would never say no. She would ask me questions until you either realize it was a stupid idea or you had a plan. Right, So eventually, unless you're an idiot, you start figuring out the questions she's going to ask you and start finding solutions to those answers, so it sounds like you actually had a plan and coming in, so you don't sell like the idiot when you realize, oh, that was a really dumb idea, you're right and you got answers for so as I'm thinking I want to become an actor, I was like, actors never work, how do you know? Blah blah blah blah, And I realized I wanted to go to go graduate school only because everybody comes to LA takes acting classes. I was like, well, let me go do nothing but acting classes, like not have to do a day job. So for three years I just was in eight in the morning to five.
At night, class, sixth at night to it to a ten at night rehearsals for the play you were doing, and then you woulds the scenes that you had for the other part of the day, so like literally, and then on Saturdays it was ten in the morning to sixth at nine, Right.
So graduate school was going to get me the ability to teach acting, so that could be my day job, right, teach acting. And then the second thing was there's this union, right, there's this union that protects you. That's where you it was an actor. You know, it's like suddenly in my mind because of my mother's kid and I knew this is the response to her when she asked the question. You're an actor, you're on your own. It's you versus the entire world. And I'm like, there's a union and means you never own your own. That's the whole. So you know, unions where you get your health insurance, unions where you get your pension. Right, I didn't even know about. I wasn't even think about, but I heard that.
I just knew my mom.
Cared about those things. I was like, you know, I was twenty, you know what I mean. I'm like, I'm not thinking about a pension, but I knew she cared about a pension.
Being able to say that Union gives.
Me a pension. She cared, so I started showing up. But this is where Rammed Home for Me was on my very first gig. It was this daytime soap that I did for Aaron Spelling, Rest of His Soul. He also put me my first primetime gig. Somebody called and said, we're you know, daytime soaps aren't usually syndicated internationally. It's Aaron Spelling, so we were. We were like on one hundred and sixty countries around the world, Like there are people I had met people in Zimbabwe who are like, hey, you know, And it was funny because it was actually when I finally went to Zimbabwe, people knew that show and they knew greats and that made me laugh hard because I got involved with the Union because literally somebody said, hey, my friend was traveling in Zimbabwe and apparently we're on the aeron Zimbabwe this Aaron Spelling soap opera, and I said, that's so cool. Did we get a Zimbabwe check? And nobody knew if we got a Zimbabwe check, So I contacted the Union and turns out we hadn't gotten our Zimbabwe check. Turns out our Zimbabwe check was way overdue, and so the union got us our check and got us the penalty payment on top of it. I mean, for me, how many days late? And I was like union got From that point on, I was sticking my nose into it because I was like, if we do need to go out on strike, I want to I want to know exactly what it's about, to know that it's righteous and we don't need to go out on strike. I want to make sure that we don't have somebody taking the trains off the tracks ego or our lives kind of thing. You know. It was like I want to you know, what's the handle, and then I want to be in the room where it happened. I was able to do that. So I've been on negotiating committee since like two thousand and one, stuff like that, and it was cool and even that first one, like I was able to and then realize that this is what I preach about the union is all you need is your work experience. You need to know anything about how all the rest of this crap works. You don't need to speak lawyer. You need to be a lawyer. You don't need to speak lawyer. You don't need to speak contract language. Be an actor and have some experiences and as an actor, and we have union leaders and we have staff lawyers and staff that will translate your work experience into.
Contract language to help solve problems, you know.
I mean, I remember the first in that very first negotiation up there, and they were and we were trying to pass a thing about what's called paint downs, which is where the stunt community.
It's a problem with the stun community.
Occasionally it's not huge, but when it shows up, it's so egregious. It freaks people out because it's literally getting me a person of color and a stunt. My stunt double will be a Caucasian person and you literally use make them to paint them down, to literally put them in black face, to double me. Oh, it's the equivalent where they get a man to double you. And usually the reason why is, you know, safety's paramount, and safety is always paramount, but the excuse is always well, we need to do it safely, and we couldn't find a woman to do it, or we couldn't do it safely and we couldn't find a person of color to do it.
And I'm like you didn't look hard.
You just didn't look hard enough.
Because I and I had exactly that experience just three months before that negotiation. And in that negotiation, literally I'll never forget this, one really curmudgeonly person on the other side of the table was like, this is in the nineteen fifties.
That doesn't happen.
And I was able to raise my hand and go three months to me, and then instantly we were in a side room because they just you know, and we were getting contract language, you know.
And the problem is you never solve a problem.
So I feel like sol often you don't solve the problem, you're managing it. Because we had to come back for the same problem ten years later and then another seven years later and we dealt with it. So this contract, but you come forward and it's the work experience that means something. So it's yeah, So for me, I understand you being a part of the union and how much the union protects to me, and how much you showing up and using your voice and putting your experience and advocating for yourself and for your peers means more than I understand what it means to be a you know, TV star. Yes, absolutely, that's newer in my world than the union piece.
And now a word from our sponsors who make this show possible even as a woman. Like in our last contract negotiation when we were trying to increase protections for women on set, there were we did a side call because I was like, listen, I have not been in this position, but hypothetical, Okay, let's say we have to go do an episode of Westworld on HBO show a lot of nudity, especially with women. You know, you get into some of those Western towns and like these background girls they're essentially shooting like you know what looks to be orgies, and they're like, well, now it's going to be. If you show up on set and they tell you as a background doctor you have to be naked, you can say no and leave with no penalty. And I was like, do y'all think women trying to get their foot in the door who have no power can leave and potentially there's supposed to be fifty of them in the scene and twenty five of them leave, And you think those women aren't going to get blackballed by that first d a D staff for fucking up their shot. Day of said absolutely, not. There has to be language in advance, like you should know two days before your set call if you are expected to be without your clothing, so you can say I'm actually unavailable and they can find someone else and nobody needs to know why. Yeah have to protect these people. And it was really interesting to see some members of the committee go oh, and I was like, you've just you've never been a woman on a set. You don't know and that's why. Yes, of course, And by the way, that's why I bring it up because I'm like, I loved seeing that language make it in. But it required people being like, no one will say you're going to be black bald, but they'll they'll they'll get pretty close. And what we have to do is eradicate the circumstance where someone could be black bald in the first place. And it's like, that's what I find exciting about what you're saying for anyone listening at home. Look, we're talking about our experiences as actors. But your experience in the workplace can make your workplace better. You can be the aha moment. You can turn on the light bulb for people, whether it's you know, inside your own union, or you turn around and realize that because of your job, you have power in another sector. It's like, it's what you're doing with Brady, which is you know so close to my heart, Like I got my first rifle when I was Oh my dad, you know, he spent his summers on a chicken farm in Canada. Like I'm not an anti gun person. I am vehemently anti insane gun laws like we have in America, but to create healthier circumstance, Like you know, my dad's history is his my mom's father was a navy guy, Like you talk about growing up in a military family. Like you know, I did weapons work in TV. I've done it on films, Like I'm excited about the sanity conversation that you guys are having it Brady, that you know Vice President Harris and now Governor Wallaser having with us, Like you know, they were like he's coming for the guns, and people like put out that cute photo of him and his dog like out burning with a rightfle.
And I was like, y'all this is it doesn't have.
To be crazy. We can have sane conversations. How did you know in addition to all your advocacy for the union and our industry. How did the sane gun ownership and reining in the conversation about you know, guns and gun violence. How did that get on your radar?
I mean, look, I mean the short answer is, I'm a dad.
I mean, and it gets you paying attention to you know, because when you're young and single, you're invincible.
You can you know, I'm indestructible, you can't do anything.
And then you start thinking about the things that can hurt your kids and you realize that they've hurt people. That sort of thing.
Now that's it.
I'd also and does the world start to pay more attention to it? And started to think about guns differently. I started to realize things. You know, my cousin, Daryl Whipman was was shot and killed and his murder never found. I mean, you don't think of that as gun violence. You think of that as like, you know, a senseless killing. And they said that, so there's things involved and blah blah blah. And then like I have members of my family who've had crazy domestic abuse issues, guns involved, threatened with guns, that sort of thing. But that's domestic but that's a whole separate thing that's not gun violence. And then you're like, and then I know, we actually have a dear family friend who was the flip side of that domestic violence scenario where he and the mother of his daughter made each other insane because they had that passionate on again off again, would test each other, proke each other's blogs president and then he had too easy access of a gun and he will never see the outside of a prison again. And the testament to how much that was not him was that the victim's mother, his daughter's grandmother, testified that he should not get the death penalty.
But that was not him.
And at the end of the day, you've got to put it on. Everybody snaps and says things they don't mean. Every once in a while, hopefully it's every once in a long while, you have a moment where you uncharacteristically loud or do something out of character. A gun in close proximity makes that horrible and in ways that you can never take back, and that will change everyone's life.
Yeah, it makes that regrettable thing you said, a horrifically unimaginable thing that no one can believe you did. And that's heavy.
And so all of those things started to coalesce in the I started realizing gun violence has been affecting my life all this time, and I'm looking at my kids now having to do you know, active shooter drills, and how traumatizing that can be because you know, you don't want your kid to think about it. I mean, you know, we did fire drills and like that was like that was annoying, but hey, we got to get outside for a little bit. I remember bringing in elementary school, but the idea that somebody was going to come and try and hurt you was a far more threatening, you know. And now we're looking and that. You know, then the more you start to pay attention, the more you start to freak out and realize that, Like there were laws that said that we couldn't research gun violence for decades, which was insane, Like we can't research this thing. That's how partisan it had become. That's how we'rediculously about people trying to win a fight as opposed to solve the problem. Yes, we're going to solve the problem. Let's just research it. Like I'm not even saying we're going to pass a law. I'm saying, let's just let's just get real numbers and facts on the table.
So we can all talk about it. And when that went away.
Now we're having this open floodgates of information where we're realizing, you know, the number one cause of death for children in America today is guns.
Yeah, and that's that's nuts. That's that's sugges nuts.
And and you know every other country people struggle with depression, people are having a hard time at work, people have anxiety. They all watch the same movies we do and play the same video games we do. It's the guns, It's.
Right, I mean, we're you know, the idea that you know, you know, the going thing that stops the back guy with the gun is a good guy with the gun or guns making people taper. You're like, we have four times as many guns. We have four times as many uh you know guns, as much gun violence is yeah, as any other country in the world.
And that's just not an accent.
Well, and I think we've we've seen, we have enough proof to know that that adage is just not accurate. You know, women are five times more likely to die in a domestic violence situation if there is a gun in the house. We have seen, I mean we saw it in Uvaldi. What happened at that school in Texas. How many armed, trained, good guys with guns were there and those children were executed, you know, very similarly to your family story. My little cousin was the little girl shot and killed the day Gabby Gifford's was shot in Arizona, and you know, she was an elected official. There were armed police. It's like this idea that more guns helps has been disproven, and I think I think in particular, it's important for folks like us to help have these conversations because it is is you know, the the on screen firefighters or cops. It is the movies about the good guys that make us think like, oh, it's doable. We love a hero story. But data is not a story, and data is not an opinion, and data is not an emotion. It's just fact, and we have the facts.
It's inconvenient.
Yeah, it's why they tried to make it illegal to research gun violence for so long, because it was inconvenient to the profit of the gun industry.
And that's why I'm so proud of the Brady campaign doing the trigger warning.
Yeah, can you tell us about that?
Yeah, it's a guy that they literally are going to the media. I mean, you just hit the nail on the head that you know, how many people learned, you know, learned to think that smoking was cool because they watched people do it in the movies, and that's sort of thing.
Well, we all learned to think that guns are cool because we watched movies and TV.
Well, Brady campaign is, you know, trigger Warning is about let's have conversations with the industry to figure out how to make gun safety cool. Right. Yeah, and again not anti gun. You said, you know you shoot, I'm a good shot. Every I grewup around guns my entire life. The reality is when you see the cop shooting at the bad guys, he runs down the street and he gets an he's heroic, and everybody pats him on the back for you know, getting the bad guy of all. You know, let's let's roll it back and say, let's have the cop get yelled at you because you know, one we begin to think that all cops are firing at bad guys all the time and that's cool. And then you find out that like something like one in four police officers have ever fired their gun in a line of dude, you suddenly go, oh, that's a completely disproportioned idea. Of what's going on.
So let's let's make it a more realistic scenario you can.
Let's find another way to make it cool in action without necessarily or let's have the cop get yelled at for firing in a crowd.
Yes, out in public where you could have endangered the lives of other people.
Right, we percussions for the discharge of your weapon and that sort of thing, and then simple little things like uh, like you know, how many movies have you seen where they know they have a gun underneath their pillow, they have a gun in their in their side.
I mean, we have candidates.
Talking about how their grandmother had guns in this drawer and that drawer and guns all over the house, and I just thought, that's just begging for somebody to catch a bullet.
Oh yeah, I mean again, another stat for you.
One out of every four kids says that they have handled a gun without their parents.
Knowing about it.
Yes, so the kids are and as a mischievous kid, I guarantee you your kid knows where your gun is. I guarantee you. You know, if you have multiple kids, at least one of them is figured out where it is and you know, and then it is showing it to friends and seyada YadA YadA. We all know these stories and people think about it may be part of these stories, and then you know, these are the moments when I go, how did we not die back in the day, Yes, there is you were lucky because there are kids that do you know eight kids die every day, and so it's the so like so if you have in the show, if you see the cop come home from work, they didn't discharge their their weapon. They got the you know, information that they got the bad guy in a more responsible, more realistic way. They come home, they take their gun out and they put it into their they then into the secure box.
Then that becomes just cool.
That becomes the way you handle this as opposed to this wild West mens out I mean, and again we changed mythology. We think the wild West was so wild there were tons of towns in the wild West where you had to leave your gun at the border of the town, where you couldn't come into town with your guns.
Specifically because we've never seen that on screen.
No I've never seen you know, like, well, who's making that movie? And so putting that out there in a chance to just like with that wild West, example, show something that's cool and interesting and get completely historically accurate.
You know, like you know, just.
Like you know the tons of black cowboys and like go, oh, that's not the We only know what Hollywood shows us.
We only know what newsreel show us.
That sort of thing.
You and so flipping the script and take a little look at your script. You don't have to change your story fundamentally. You don't have to change how your heroin gets down. You don't have to change that much. But a little touch here and a little touch there will really begin to change the way we all view gun safety. It's like, oh, having a secure lockbox is cool, it's smart. Protects my kids. If you show a kid and if you show the ramifications of not blocking you know safely, that's a great storyline.
That's the thing, you know. I've got the show to do.
In this last season an episode about extreme risk protection orders most people known as like red flag laws, and there's basically the laws that we're ad say, if this person is demonstrably uh a danger to themselves or others, you can take.
A domestic violence situation. You can take their guns away.
It is the prime I mean domestic violence and mental uh and and someone who's mentally unhealthy. Mental illness are the two prime examples where you can say, yo, this veteran is in a really bad place, and this is the thing where I feel like we've got because the whole joke, the whole goal now is to get.
Everybody on the same page.
Yes, remember we watched the scene, the social media posts of it's the guy who was a he's a self proclaimed gun nut.
That's how he would refer to himself. I'm a gun nut. I want that one. I want that one, I want that one.
And it's a funny bit and everything like that, and he shoots and it's and that's all great, that's fine. But even he would say, if you're a veteran and you're in a dark place, maybe give your guns to your buddy. Yeah, maybe give your guns to your body. Because if a veteran's going to kill themselves, it's going to be with a gun. Yes, no, uh, you know, police officers, they're going to do it.
They were.
And people forget how much suicide is the bulk of gun violence. Yes, and again it's and again, the more you start to learn, the more you start to it starts to reshape what you picture as gun violence. We all think of mass shooters because that is the big, scary what causes that? How do you ever prevent that? And we realize how much of it really is preventable. And again this and this is my argument to the whole more guns. I'm like, bounce prevention is worth a pound of cure. Right, So, if we can separate the mentally unhealthy person from their guns just while they're in their dark space, if we're going to separate the abuser from their guns while the person being abused is still vulnerable until they get to a safe place, until things have calmed down in that relationship. If you can separate the mentally unhealthy person who's angry, who's been bullied at school, et cetera, et cetera, if you can separate them from the guns or make it difficult to access guns.
You know, most school shooters.
I think something the number is like something like seventy six percent of school shooters that are teens got the gun from their own or a friend's house. Yes, that neck end goes too. If it was in a lock box.
They wouldn't add access.
I can't get to my you know I can get to my friend's house maybe, but I you know, and even if he showed me where his parents keep their gun, I don't know the code. If there's a code, right, it was just in a drawer, came on and nothing and there's nothing to stop me. It's about putting those impediments between people and doing damage to themselves up. Bunce of prevention is worth of pound of cure. And when you talk about it in real calm, trying to solve the problem, not win some political fight. Right, I don't care about that. I mean over a beer. I have yet to meet a gun owner who, over a beer would acknowledge that. The fact that I can walk.
In screaming about how much.
My wife pissed me off, and when I get home, blah blah blah blah, punk down my id, get a case of beer and AK forty seven.
That's a bad.
Idea, A bad idea. He's just it's a bad idea.
Period, bad idea. And at the end of the day, it's like this because it makes a lot of people a lot of money. The gun lobby has made so much money making the rest of us unsafe. As as a hobbyist, as a gun owner. That pisses me off. The idea that they have sold people on marketing that folks at home need to have weapons of war in their garages. I'm like enough, And I loved what Secretary Buddhacheg said back on the campaign trail leading into the twenty twenty election. He was like, listen, you want to say we can't infringe on your Second Amendment rights? Enough, He goes, because you can't have a predator drone. I say that as a veteran. You don't get to have one. So there's a line somewhere, and we need to walk the line back to these types of weapons. And I was like, wow, that's the best way I've ever heard a person say, like I can't buy a tank. I can't do that, and I don't and I shouldn't be able to.
Well, the reality is, I mean, and I'm the first one to say shooting guns is fun. Shooting is fun, and it is funny. I'm like shows blowing stuff up. There are rules about dynamite.
There's rules about dynamite, nitriglitz you, I mean, and that's just and that's that's the thing.
And so it's just common sense things and so that's why I'm like so proud of like the the you know, I mean, look the trigger warning getting Hollywood to start to reframe how we see it in media. I mean it was put together by the Hollywood Health and Society, uh, you know, at the the US's Norman Lear Center, and I give them, I give them, you know, and it makes me laugh because I go, Norman Lear at the heart of so many cool things in America. I mean, yeah, shows that brought black folks into your home every week were from Norman Lear that put women at the front of being funny.
Where Norman Lear uh that.
Like got into the controversial stuff and made it funny so we could laugh, chill out and talk about it. Of course, Norman Lear and Hollywood Health and Society at the heart of that because you know, like let's just talk about it, like not not argue about it. Like we're gonna show you what, We're going to break it open. We'll make you laugh about it, will make you cry about it, and then we're going to make you think about it.
Like for ree, it's making space for the entire human experience of problem solving.
Yeah, and a relief problem. Don't just win the fight and now a.
Word from our sponsors. So where do people go, Like, if this kind of you know, sane and inclusive dialogue sounds great to people, how do our listeners get involved?
Well, you can check you can check out Hollywood Health and Society. You can check out Brady Campaign. I do work with every Town and Mom's Demand Action. I mean, these are these groups are out there getting it done and uh, and I love them all and they each have real special niches. Uh. How the Health Society is talking to Hollywood h literally and was on the forefront of getting people to realize, you know, the power that we have, ah, and some of the mistakes that we've been making unintentionally, uh, in the kind of messaging that we put out there, and that we can just a simple little flip. You don't lose any of the power of the story, but you can make a big difference. And then on the other end of the spectrum, you got Mom's Demand Action that I love. That's so they're all greased, but Mom's Man Action. It's like, I mean, I'm I remember when like Mom's against drunk driving changed the entire situation, and it wasn't The laws eventually were part of it. But really what they did was they made it uncool to drive drunk. They made it cool to ask you to tell you to get your friend to give you the keys because I know you've been drinking, you know. So now my hope is that we're going to make it cool to ask when your kids go over for play date, ask if there are guns in the home? Yes, and then asking the follow up of properly yes. It makes it cool to have the conversation, get a fight, It makes it It's making it cool for Hollywood to show responsible gun safety and a lot of boxes and that sort of thing. You know, that's all making that stuff cool is the thing, and I think that's what Mom's demand action is about. I think when Hollywood Health Society has taking that and really getting people, they're like showing, you know, putting trigger warning in their face and making them understand. So you can find them on social media, you can find their websites. They're out there.
And by the way, it's your friends and neighbors. Everybody's in this conversation.
And what I want, what I pray is you know, you as a person who's used guns, and me as a person you know, like all the gun owners getting the game. Then the gun owners start getting in the game because that fear of they're going to take the guns. It's like, no, we're going to control gun safety. It's not they're going to do anything. It's we are going to make ourselves safer. And it doesn't mean but it's not about taking the guns. It's about let's make sure we're smart. We're just gun safety just be a watch word that we all pay attention to exactly.
I love it, I absolutely love it. There's a lot. I mean, we've covered a lot, from your twenty fifth anniversary to parenthood to you know, career and advocacy and all of these things you have You've done so much, and you've you've also given so much with your career and with your platform. I wonder as you sit here, you got to come to terms of the fact that twenty twenty four is going to be over before we know it. As you kind of look out ahead over the rest of the year and beyond what what feels like you're work in progress right now?
Oh, my work, My work in progress is I've.
It's funny because I'm I'm staring at empty nester. I mean, I got sixteen olds driving cars. They can get themselves to and from where they need to be on their own. They can uber if they need to because they're they're older responsible.
I think he drive themselves there and so you know, and I've won in college and so.
I'm it is that thing right now where I'm starting to do more things for me, which, funny enough, some of that's in the business, you know, things that I was like, just notice the Grindstone show up, get the work done, build the acting career. And now I'm like, I want to be a part of creating this thing from the jump, from get go and bringing the elements together. And that's exciting and also just enjoying book. We just celebrated our twenty fifth wedding anniversary and so for a long time you did that that kids are the most important thing in the world. Yeah, and I've told them since they were little. I was like, if you see daddy kissing mommy, never interrupt you, never interrupt daddy kissing mommy, because it's just happening before you. This would be going on when you all leave. And it was funny and I was serious and it was a joke, and yet it's also you know. Now I'm at the spot where I'm like, hey you.
Yeah, you know, you're like, wait, what are you doing?
Later was like, you know, and so we've been in that space for the last little bit. We're like, you know, hey kids, you know where what do you want for dinner? Oh, I'm out gonna be over here? Or what we're doing?
That thing?
I got practice, I got this, that and the other thing, and everybody spread out to the four winds and we just looked at because you and mean. So so we rolled to the pub around the corner that we love and you know, pop down and chill with, you know, call a couple of.
People to be like, hey, what you're doing?
And I love it.
I'm with my four year old. I can't make it.
So like you talk about your friends, we have a whole bunch of our friends who are at that stage, and my brother being among them, and I'm like, hey man, he's like, I can't, Ben, I got the kids. So but we're finding So the work in progress now is going back to getting your young and sexy on, you know, getting your young and sexy and ambitious on and final projects that you get to be at the center. That's what I'm I'm excited about right now.
I love that. Well, thank you, I mean truly, you know, from what you do on screen to all the things you choose to do off it, really it means a lot.
Appreciate you, and right back at you.
This is a perfect example, just this podcast and who you choose to put on and what you choose to amplify on your podcast again amazing, and and to do it all with grace and and eating and and not caught up in all of that.
Well, thank you. I appreciate that very much much love yeah, right back at you, thank you for today, Jason Oh to be appreciate you
